Glen Davis' flagrant foul rescinded, Doc fined $25,000
by Jimmy Toscano on Jan 14, 2010 7:00 AM EST
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintOn Monday night against the Atlanta Hawks, Glen Davis was called for a flagrant 1 foul on the Hawks' Marvin Williams. On Wednesday, the NBA rescinded that foul and changed the flagrant foul to a personal foul. While the foul is changed in the record books, it doesn't change how it affected the game.
From Paul Flannery at WEEI.com:
The NBA rescinded it to a regular personal foul, which is fine, but once the call had been made the Hawks were awarded two shots and the ball and once Rivers protested the call he was assessed two technical fouls and ejected. Mild-mannered assistant Armond Hill was also assessed a technical foul. The effect of all that was five free throws (the Hawks made four) and possession of the ball in what had been a double-digit lead for the Celtics.
Without the erroneous Flagrant 1 call, none of that would have happened.
"Of all the fines I've ever had, this is by far the most disappointing," Rivers told reporters in New Jersey. "I just don't get this one. I watched a couple of coaches last week run out on the floor and no fine. I get fined for being right."
So to be clear... Bennett Salvatore called Glen Davis for a flagrant foul, ejected Doc Rivers from the game and gave another technical foul to Armond Hill just for kicks, all over a call that actually was wrong. On top of that, Rivers is still fined $25,000? How does that make any sense?
That series of events changed the game and gave the Hawks the break they needed to get back into the game. I'm not going to say this is the reason we lost, because it isn't, but this is the classic example of how poor the officiating is getting in the NBA. If that foul is called right, Williams goes to the line for two free throws and the game goes on from there. Instead, the Hawks got five free throws and ball and Rivers was abruptly booted from the game, leaving Tom Thibodeau to do the coaching (or lack thereof).
It will be interesting to see the next time Salvatore is assigned a Celtics game.
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Awful officiating.
And the fine is even more awful… basically the NBA acknowledges the call was wrong, so Doc was right by contesting it, and yet they fine him because he told the refs that this was an awful call (which it was)?!
Who are they kidding?
I disagree with you when you say that this is not the reason why we lost the game. Sure, you can blame the Celtics for chocking in the 4th but they got out of their game because of that series of free-throws and all the calls and no-calls that favored the Hawks during the entire game and helped them to win it.
The flagrant foul call changed the momentum of the game and gave a big boost to the Hawks. Fatigue + no rest + poor coaching led to a fumble in the 4th quarter, but none of that would have happened had the refs not helped the Hawks during the game, and more precisely with these 5 free-throws + the possession.
Disagree
Yes, terrible calls. Still, the Celts sucked from that point on. You can’t blame the officials for what happened AFTER the calls. That doesn’t make any sense.
you can if the direct result of the calls
causes our TEAM their COACH. Without Doc things went down the tubes. You CAN blame that on the refs cause we don’t know what would have taken place had he been able to stay on the sidelines.
Disagree with the disagree
I truly feel we lost that game because our guys were just too tired to hold off the Hawks run in the 4th. That was caused by some bad coaching (mainly leaving them in too long) on the part of our assistant coach. That was caused by Doc being removed from the game, which was caused by Doc losing his cool and yelling at the refs. Which we all know was caused by a really bad call (that the league has agreed was a bad call!). It set up a chain of events that caused us to loss. Could we have stopped these events at some point sure? However the refs are the reason the events were started.
by warriorspirit on Jan 14, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with the disagree to the disagree, or something...
and you also made my piont for me. That is, Tibs did a terrible job. This is the guy who is supposed to be one of the top defensive coordinators in the league and was courted for head coaching positions. Why didn’t he put TA back in?
Frankly, I thought the troops were going to rally ’round Doc and pull away from the Hawks after the ejection. Instead the opposite happened.
At any point in that chain of events you described, the Celts could have turned it around. They didn’t. They sucked plain and simple. It is NOT a foregone conclusion that the first event in that chain was “the cause” if the loss.
It’s always easier to blame somebody else.
sorta kinda agree with the agree with the disagree to the .... wait? What was that again?
I don’t think its quite fair to say it as simply as the Celtics ‘sucked plain and simple’. I think the players were put into a sucky situation by the bad call, the big point differential swing and Doc’s ejection and then they couldn’t get out of it because Tom T for some reason had a brain lock and wouldn’t substitute.
The refs caused the sucky situation. Tom T left them there.
I'll say it was the reason we lost.
Took away our comfortable lead, leaving Thibs to risk leaving the starters in the whole time, leaving them to be completely tired come the 4th.
I guarantee you if that series of BS doesn’t happen, the Celtics win the game. I usually don’t want to blame it all on the officials, but this is one of the cases I’m willing to do it. No surprise it’s Bennett Salvatore.
USG
Demerits for Bennie?
And no Sanctions on Bennie-Salve for making the wrong call and over-reacting to Docs reaction? Guy has some kind of ego. Maybe an issue w/Doc Celtics. He learned nothing form the Pops incident.
How much do you think
Bennie had on the game? Refs gottah have a retirement fund too!
make this work for us
This can be a time when the Celtics start blaming the refs for every shortcoming or it can be the chip on our shoulder that reminds our guys to play hard. It’s a choice and so far, the destruction of the Nets tells me our C’s may be making the right one.
by Thruthelookingglass on Jan 14, 2010 7:42 AM EST reply actions
I can understand why people are upset...
but really, it doesn´t matter wether the call on Davis was correct or not. Doc got fined for losing his self-control,
Do I understand why he reacted the way he did?
Of course, but the call itself is still irrelevant to what happened after the call, which is what Doc was fined for.
However, $25,000 is still a lot of money for being right, and it´s definitly way too much for my taste.
that's like saying....
…that tossing a beer at Ron Artest is irrelevant and had no bearing on what happened afterwards. That argument just makes no sense. If the refs were doing their jobs right then nothing bad would have happenned, but because they couldn’t (and consistently can’t) do their jobs right the Celtics had to suffer.
It frankly offends me that Salvatore, who’s easily one of the five worst officials in this league and the author of the worst NBA call I’ve ever seen (the offensive foul against Pierce, Game 6, Detroit series, 2008), continues to have employment in a job he’s clearly not competent enough to hold.
Silver lining:
We never have to worry about Thibs being offered a head coaching gig ever again. He was like a deer in the headlights. Is he even familiar with the process of a sub checking in at the scorers table?
by bewareofdware on Jan 14, 2010 9:45 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Bennett Salvatore
It’s not as though this was the first time he shafted the Celtics. He does it every time. I don’t think he’s totally incompetent. I think he’s totally biased.
Bennett Salvatore
And everyone will be surprised when he comes out with is tell all book about how he screwed us and everyone will say it’s an isolated incident. How he acted alone and no games will be changed. How many Lakers Championships are tainted? At least 2?
Collection!
If someone takes up a collection to pay Docs fine I’ll give 10 bucks.
If we're going to organize anything...
…organize something that might actually improve life in the NBA (as opposed to helping line their pockets).
For example, we are not the only fans unhappy with the refs. A quick check of other blogs indicates that it’s league wide. That’s a lot of people, already semi-organized… or at least, communicating with each other. Why can’t the fans organize, using the blogs as the medium of communication? We have the power… that of the almighty buck. If we can find a way to wield it, who knows what changes we could make? As it is, the league is out of control, and pretty rotten.
This is classic, vintage David Stern NBA
Even when they admit they made a bad call, they still fine a coach for saying it. I feel like David Stern would rather live in a pile of poop than admit it and shovel himself out.
RIDICULOUS.
Big brother no longer needs to watch, because the world is convinced he is.
I want to hear from all those
who said it was “obvious” that a flagrant call on Davis was correct and that they would want that call if it was a Celtic being fouled. Well now the league has come out, with ample time to review the play, and said that it was NOT a flagrant foul. Too many factors go into a W or an L to pin it on one thing ever, but clearly this wrong call changed the momentum of the game, and left the C’s without their leader down the stretch.
Often what you see
after such a clearly wrong call and long progression of bad calls against one team(that flagrant, Rondo getting tripped out of bounds, Rondo being run over by Horford in the front court after he was inbounded the ball and turned to run up court, the foul on Rondo that gave Tinsley 3 FTs and the play just before that on the out of bounds call, just about every call against the C’s in the first half) is the refs not wanting to look to bias and start going the other way with the calls. That didn’t happen in this game. The calls thereafter still were decidedly running in the Hawks favor.
I found that as bothersome as the ridiculous flagrant foul call as what it showed was an almost entire game’s bias for calls going one way. The no calls on Horford’s outside screens that were knocking Rondo to the ground from late movement’s of Horford’s legs and hips in the fourth quarter was absurd. Perk gets called for that almost twice a game but Horford was doing it like crazy late in that game without a call at all.
freedom of speech is ingrained in americans, how is the nba not smart enough to realize that it only causes us fans to resent the league when it censors people’s speech.
i don’t think anyone’s fooled into thinking the refs are actually good in the NBA, so the league should just embrace it.
if most fans are like me, they enjoy watching highlights that prove the refs are wrong. it makes us feel a bit better when we don’t win.
Win or lose.
I feel like I’m watching a much better game if it’s well Officiated. The next time I see a well officiated game I’ll be sure and post that fact.
Calls this year 2009-10
Every single call in the NBA this year has favored the Lakers and Cavs getting the #1 seed. All of them. Almost every time its Mauer, both Crawfords, Salvatore, Delaney, Bavetta. Every single time. Every single calls favors Lakers and Cavs.
Try and think about one game this year where one controversal call went against the Cavs or Lakers or went for any other team trying to get the #1 seed over them.
There aren’t any, there is absolutely none. That’s right you found one, one game.
12/25 Cavs @ Lakers, that is the only game this year because both teams played each other so they had to sway the game for one team, and they picked the Cavs.
Every other game went those 2 teams way. Cavs take seconds off clock against Bucks AND Hawks get away with it both times, clear path foul on Josh Smith T on Woodson, Woodson protests shot clock game, missed foul on Amare T’d up, Kobe charges Bogut Kobe gets away with it, no benchside camera angle on Kobe’s 3 against Kings possibly on 3pt line, Cavs bounce ball out of bounds against Kings score 2 points, Celtics get 10 whistles in a row first game against Hawks 4th Qtr, Areanas suspended day of Cavs game, Delonte gets 14 points as Gilbert sits, Perkins foul on the rebound against 76ers?, Perkins T at Golden State?, Sheed getting ejected early against 76ers?, Rondo foul counts at 1.5 instead of 1.3 Baron gets extra time for buzzer beater Clippers?, did you see the Cavs get calls against the Grizzlies?, how about both Portland games? Monta Ellis calls a time out doesn’t get it really what is Nelson doing?, LeBron travels on last bucket at Golden State.
And the only one that went the Celtics way, Pierce elbow on Quentin at Heat.
I mean C’mon people those aren’t a bunch of bad calls, that’s called cheating.
Its time to voice our opinion and let people know how we feel, so that it doesn’t happen again in the future.
most recent
and the most recent, Doc T’d, Hill T’d, Baby flagrant, Hawks shoot 1 million freethrows in a row, where were those freethrows for the Hawks in their back to back against the Cavs? Where were all the freethrows then? Imagine if the Cavs got whisled for 10 consecutive fouls against the Hawks like the Celtics did, you think the Cavs would have won that game?
I know the freethrows went for the Cavs. Delonte was 65 feet from the basket when he would have obviously scored on Josh Smith in 4:05 minutes into the 4th Qtr, a 4th Qtr where both teams scored a combined 2 points, yet the clear path had to be called because obviously so many buckets were being scored in the 4th Qtr and the refs had to clamp down on this cheating going on by the defense(sarcasm). The Cavs shoot 3 freethrows and now have more points 1/3 of the way through the 4th Qtr then both teams combined, boy that clear path foul just had to be called to control the lazy and unorganized defense(sarcasm).
Lets be real people.
games tonight
we have two important games tonight, Bulls vs Celtics, Cavs vs Jazz. watch the games. don’t let them cheat, they are trying to get the Cavs the #1 seed, these two games are important. If you see something in one of the two games that doesn’t seem right, let people know about it and admit it. Speak up and let people know how you feel.
I have a feeling they are going to try something tonight, because they don’t want the Cavs to go down 1 in the loss column to the Celtics, when in reality they should already be 7 games back , had the calls been fair this year.
So watch the games and see what happens, already have it in your mind that the refs are taking things a certain way, and then you can see how sneaky they really are, that is how you can win. Because if you watch these games and think the calls are going to be fair, or you are still trying to anylyze whether the calls are fair, you have already lost.
To anyone who doesn't believe the refs stole that game, watch this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxO_Gmtpm80
It’s incredible. Even worse than I remembered.
Ugh. That was disgusting to watch.
But people should watch it.
fantastic video
More videos have to be made like this. We have to flood the internet with the truth. I’m not good with the making videos and stuff but I know how to comment so I can play my part.
Here are more ways they fix games:
1.A great play is made by the team the league wants to win, then a very questionable call on the other end. The questionable call will immediately be ignored while video of the great play the play before that is shown 3 times in a row.
2.A player gets fouled hard(example see Perkins), no foul is called, the player gets upset and is hit with a T-3 point swing.
3.All questionable calls will be ignored by ESPN, NBATV and all highlights, sometimes even the announcers will act like nothing happened.
4.Phony clear paths, flagrants, fouls behind the 3 pt line happen all the time.
And a few more things the media for those networks and others do it all the time. The Cavs “punish” the Wizards, while the Hawks “own” the Celtics, the Cavs look for the “sweep”, while the Celtics “hold on”, the Cavs get a “rare” loss at home to the Bobcats and are “exused” for the loss, while Garnett hits a buzzer beater at New York and “what is wrong with the Celtics”, while Kobe hits a buzzer beater home against the Kings and “Kobe is God”, Fisher isn’t old Ray Allen is, Garnett has too many injuries, Shaq doesn’t Big Z doesn’t, Jamario Moon played in 10 leagues yeah we know that already how many times are you going to tell us.
If you root for any other players besides LeBron or Kobe, you can’t even watch basketball because you can’t even see any other players besides them.
And I think a video has to be made of the first home game against the Hawks. The Celtics got whistled for 10 consecutive fouls in just 5:38 in the 4th Qtr I’m surprised people waited this long until the next Hawks game to say something, something should have been said about that game before this Davis flagrant Doc Hill ejected stuff happened.
Plus Hollinger has the Cavs at a 64% chance to get the #1 seed, 31.9% to be champs, while the Celtics only have a 25.7% chance to get the #1 seed, 13.3 to be champs, and they both have the same number in the loss column! with the Magic and Hawks only 2 and 3 games back! No other team even has better than a 10.7% chance to win the title and even the Lakers only have a 47.6% chance to get the #1 seed with 4 of the top 5 teams in the league residing in the East. Hollinger even ran a computer scenario where the Cavs won all remaining 42 games of the season to go 72-10, do you believe that!!
The 2007-08 Celtics won 20 games by 18 or more points during the regular season.
The 2009-10 Cavs have won 2 games by 18 or more points halfway during the regular season.
Be honest people its called game rigging, media rigging, game fixing, media fixing, ref jobbing, etc.
Keep in mind
…that everybody involved has a financial interest in the status quo. And money is a powerful behavior modifier. Some things that look conspiratorial can be explained with that.
As for the opinions of various writers and “experts”… I would much rather they all thought ILL of the Cs, than have them all think we’re the best. Like in 08. Let the Lakers be “the best”… right up until the Finals. I’d rather they be the beneficiaries of every team’s max-A game, than we.
Meanwhile… we’ll continue to call ’em as we see ’em.
Great article about Rivers' fine..overall great new sports site
Hey check out this article about Doc’s fine. It has a great video of the entire scene and argues his case perfectly. This is a great new sports blog. http://thesportsthought.com/
Nicely done, Tim
Some advice: use the spell checker, and don’t talk about yourself in 3rd person (i.e., when you’re listed as the author).
Good luck with the site!
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