Waiting For That Other Guy
by Jeff Clark on Jan 21, 2010 10:30 PM EST
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintIn case you missed it, Kevin Garnett is returning to the lineup tomorrow. The team was 22-7 with him in the lineup and is just 5-6 without him. So yeah, I think he'll have an impact. On the other hand, I think most would agree that one man, no matter how important to the team, is not going to solve all the problems this team has had over the last couple weeks. So naturally with the trade deadline approaching people (like me) have started wondering out loud about what we could get on the market to upgrade the bench and improve our roster.
Well, I have it on good authority that the Celtics will be adding a guy in February that can help us at multiple positions and solidify the bench. Nope, this isn't a trade rumor, just a reminder that Marquis Daniels should be returning from his injury next month.
Marquis has become somewhat of a forgotten man around here lately. Injuries to the starters stole the headlines and Daniels has been out of sight, out of mind. In his absence, the team has had some holes exposed. The same holes that we were worried about in the offseason (backup point and wing).
Early in Daniels' absence Tony Allen stepped up and filled the role admirably, but he's been up and down since then. Scalabrine has had an occasional solid game but mostly has been disappointing this season. Eddie House can play point guard, but as Doc has mentioned several times, he's a much better player when he's playing off the ball.
Daniels is a great fit for this team because he does a little of everything. He can help with ball handling, he can guard wings, he can attack the paint, and he can provide valuable minutes off the bench. Getting him back on the floor will be a big boost, assuming he returns on schedule and remains healthy.
And there's the rub. The only fear here is the chance that Marquis or someone else could get (or remain) hurt. When fully healthy, this team is a force to be reckoned with, but we've never seen the top 8 or 9 players on this team healthy at the same time all year. (Think about it, Baby hurt the first several weeks, then Daniels and KG went out, etc.)
So we're not even sure exactly what we've got or what we'll have in the Spring. But the trade deadline is fast approaching and if Danny is going to make a move, he'll be guessing with the rest of us about what the team will need most. So Ainge will more likely just look for talent in general and try to add a player or two that would be upgrades over what we send out (Tony/Scal/Baby?).
I'm just looking forward to seeing Marquis Daniels back on the court. I think he'll make Eddie a better player, take some pressure off Rondo, give Ray and Paul some added rest, and basically improve the play of the bench. Again, he's not going to solve all our issues, but he'll help quite a bit. Maybe between KG and Daniels we'll solve enough problems to get back to talking about how great this team is again.
Update: Daniels tweeted today that he had his cast removed.
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On the other hand, I think most would ...
Did you leave out a ‘not’ in this sentence in the 1st paragraph?
thanks
fixed (I was getting sleepy when I wrote that)
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
It ain't easy being Quisy
Ahh…the forgotten man. Quis is a HUGE part of this team. The X factor if you will. I love this guy. He can bring the ball up, has a knack for getting to the basket, will not panic anf find the open man if his shot isn’t there..what a find. Most of all, he just keeps quiet and does his job. And I agree that once all these guys are healthy and given a month or 2 together, they will be a force to be reckoned with. I just pray Quis & Ticket both stay off the injured list for the rest of the year (or at least most of it)
JB
by KobeWearsAPurpleThong on Jan 21, 2010 10:53 PM EST reply actions
I love your login name
You should comment on Silver Screen & Roll before the 31st, just to give them fits. I’ll be ragging them myself in a day or so.
Getting the sense that Baby has checked out
…and Doc feels it, and his hoping that Billy Walker can step into that spot. Of all the guys on the team, Baby seems to be the unhappiest, diluting the chemistry that keeps them together. (For a guy who was so goofy and happy-go-lucky last year, he’s looking pretty glum most of the time. And fatter. One theory is that he might not have hit his contract’s weight limits, and might be depressed about that.)
I’m thinking Danny is going to try hard to move Baby and/or Scal, and try to keep TA.
Keep in mind about Davis
he was wanting to go somewhere else during the offseason. He wanted to start and knew he wouldn’t be able to once Kevin got back, and even less minutes with Sheed.
Also, the few games that Wallace and KG were both out, Scal started. To me, that’s kinda a slap in the face to Baby considering what he did for us last year.
However, basketball is a team sport, and Davis hasn’t shown that team effort. We’ll see what happens.
by KY Celts fan on Jan 21, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Good points
More reasons for his general unhappiness. It’s pretty clear that they’re going to try hard to move Baby… now if they can, or if not, in the offseason for sure. His contract expires after next season.
Tell ya what… I’m pretty sick and tired of this kid. He really is too fat to do his job right (Nate R has a vertical leap of 43.5"; Baby can jump about 6")… on top of all the psychological nonsense he has displayed. When he goes, I’ll be thinking good riddance.
Well
If what thehoopsforum on twitter says is true, the Celtics aren’t in love with giving him up for Nate. So, take that however you’d like.
Probably
…that was written before the latest incident. You know, the one where he shouted what he shouted in an open arena full of fans, some of whom were kids, sitting there with their fathers…..
I'm sure
yelling “fat boy” to players is setting a great example with said kids sitting their next to their father. rolls eyes
Ok ok, but I digress. I believe the game was on Wednesday, and that thehoopsforum said on Thursday at around 4 PM that the Celtics didn’t want to give up Big Baby. I do want Nate, for the record, but I think it would be in very taste if the Celtics suddenly decided they wanted to trade Big Baby just because of that incident.
clearly what baby said was not appropriate
but don’t give some sob story about kids sitting with their dads. This is the NBA, where objectified women come out and shake their hips at every timeout, and its biggest super stars either deal with off the court legal issues (or laugh off a suggestion to do the dunk contest for charity) or show horrendous sportsmanship, showboating constantly.
The heckling fan was setting just as bad if not a worse example for heckling big baby. What kind of example are you setting for your kids when you heckle a man who is most likely 2x your size about his body appearance? Not exactly a good life lesson.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
i saw his facebook page from SoSH. he was posting links about the incident – dude was proud! and he isn’t exactly fit enough to call anyone “fat”. pot, meet kettle!
by cheekmeister on Jan 22, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
That is why I said in the other post...
the arena should be family friendly from BOTH perspectives. There are (and should be) limits to what is acceptable vs boorish behavior, including from fans.
We can argue as to what those limits are. But should be some.
Luckily the league is aware of that.
Personally Davis for Nate would not be a good move, IMHO. But I would understand part of the logic if it happened. I haven’t seen the rumor though.
by Tom Halzack on Jan 22, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Gentlemen...
At the time of the incident, Chucky Atkins was writhing in pain on the floor from a hard foul called on Davis. How many Celtics fans at the Garden would NOT be cursing at the fouling player in that instance? Talk about a double standard. And this guy didn’t even curse. Just stated the obvious.
If Davis doesn’t want to be called “fat”, let him lose some damn WEIGHT. And become something closer to an actual NBA player. Don’t forget, Davis actually has a weight clause in his contract. Does any other NBA player? This is clearly his biggest problem.
And btw… when we call Davis “Big Baby” – how different is that from calling him “fat boy”. It’s almost the same. The implications ARE the same.
And do you really want to compare the shout that Davis spat out to calling somebody “fat”? Really?? Well… the NBA does not agree, obviously. Plus fyi, there are Federal rules against that kind of obscenity on television… whose cameras are EVERYWHERE in the arena, which could not help but pick up Davis’ epithet because the arena was quiet at the time, due to the foul.
Also, it would not be "just because of that incident"
…it would be because of
- Baby’s ongoing weight problem
- his inability to jump more than a few inches
- his relatively poor performance on the court
- his negative attitude…. glum, unhappy… not at all like past years. Probably contributing to the loss of chemistry on the team.
- his multiple displays of infantilism (see Jeff’s prior post), including this latest one.
Time for Baby to crawl away.
immature.
he gets along well with Sheed. they were goofing around in the locker before the Mavs game. ~sigh
by cheekmeister on Jan 22, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Agree
Baby does not seem happy this year, as his body language shows it..
I also agree with your observation that baby does have a problem (that many are not mentioning) with his vertical jumping and also with the fact he lacks length for a true power forward .
He is having a hard time scoring in the low post due to this (that’s why he is getting blocked so often) and he also has trouble defending and rebounding against most other power forwards since they are simply jumping over and reaching over him.
If the C’s try to move him though I hope they can obtain a back up power forward in return so we do not lose size and a big man off the bench.
We also need big man insurance if KG health is a issue or Sheed gets hurt.
I admit, i was a skeptic about Quis
I even called his signing a bust once. But now that he hasn’t been here for a while, i can really tell what he does for our bench.
I really hope that once the whole team is back together (for the first time since the preseason) we’ll get our mindset back to where it needs to be, and we’ll start dominating again. Those few losses after Christmas really messed with us,
But a trade wouldn’t hurt. The kids, Davis, Scal, even House should be on the block (I’m giving TA a pass because of his tremendous effort as of late).
Nice try but
I’m not really excited about Daniels’ return. It might help a little, in fact I expect to help at least a bit, ie not negative or neutral (duh, right), but otherwise I don’t see a big difference. A little better O than Tony, a little worse D. Add to the fact, he wasn’t exactly playing heavy minutes before he got hurt anyway.
Also, not sure I buy this Marquis-Completes-Eddie line going around. I know Doc says it, but it seems like E-House is just missing shots. Paul, Ray and Tony do plenty of the ballhandling with Eddie in there. He’s been paired with Rdono. So…I don’t really buy that. It’d be nice if Eddie broke out of his slump soon though.
Tried and true
With Quis initiating the O, Eddie can be a roamer, what he does best. And overall, for more consistent than Mr Tony. Can be relied on for 20+ minutes and not bounce the ball off his foot.
How often does Tony really do that?
I mean come on guys, everybody bounces the ball off their foot on occasion. I bet PP has done it more than Tony since Tony’s return. He has been playing well this year when available. I understand he has underwhelmed in the past but why all the hate. He’s been our best bench player since his return. If they ran more plays for him in the post we’d be better off than trying to run double, triple screens for house just to brick a 3.
I couldn't agree more about eddie
He is just missing shots this year, or when he does he has a foot on the line.
YOU ARE PAID TO BE A 3 POINT SHOOTER, MAKE SURE YOU ARE BEHIND THE LINE!!!!
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Keep House
He’s below his average % and is due to start hitting again. He needs a pg, maybe Quisy will do. Also Baby was great in playoffs last year and he was big then too. Maybe KG will turn him around. I’d trade TA and Scal and Walker for a game changer PG or SF. Maybe Posey again.
by Daveonthecape on Jan 21, 2010 11:42 PM EST via mobile reply actions
no to posey
he’s declining a little and his contract gets kind of problematic. in fact, its problematic now. loved what he did for us to win the title, but he got overpaid.
by guy incognito on Jan 21, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
And KG.
Daniels hasn’t really done much to warrant looking at him as a big improvement. He was supposed to be the point guard on the second unit, at least that was the talk back around the time of the signing. That hasn’t happened. And his defense is nothing to write home about.
by lemonade sky on Jan 22, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
cant wait to have him back im so sick of Glenn Davis’s fat ass dragging over the court I would much rather have Leon Powe than him. What kind of tool yells at fans for pointing out the obvious.
And what about us, calling him "Big Baby"
How different is “Big Baby” from “fat boy”? Just a shade. Both names convey the same thing.
The boy is fat.
Yah leon has been tremendous this year
oh wait he hasn’t even played a single game…
I can’t believe people are reacting this harshly to big baby yelling something at a fan. Have you ever sat close enough to the court to hear the typical banter? Have you ever heard KG yelling? It’s nothing but curse words. But that’s okay because it’s “intensity”. give me a break, the celtics are struggling, glen expects better of himself, and in frustration he lashed out at a fan (who I mind you was heckling him enough to get warned by security…). I’d rather him do this then lash out at his coach or his teammates.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
There's a difference
… between general cursing in the course of action in a loud arena, and a directed epithet hurled at a fan during a quiet break. Apparently the NBA agrees… and they’re right this time.
Big Baby
Never liked big baby,
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2009/10/30/nba_20091030_davis_fine.nba/
almost cried during the end of the interview, big baby is the man, he wants to be a celtic.
Big Baby all the way
Definitely looking forward for Marquis' return
I love the guy’s personnality and what he brings to the team. A lot of things. And I think his defense on guys like Joe Johnson or even LeBron will be huge for us.
So I hope he comes back on time and 100% healty, I do’nt want to rush back if he is still injured.
By the way, I suspect that he had been injured since almost the beginning of the season, which would explain the few shots he took and his misses at the rim on several times. What do you think?
healthy
I am still excited to see this team healthy, considering it wants to play hard. That has been a real question mark lately. The only move I think Danny should make is to trade out expiring contracts for a good young player that can be locked up for the future of our team. I do not know if that guy is out there or not.
I like how we continue to make excuses for House
Yet call TA ‘up and down.’ BOTH players suffer without a true point guard out there.
Personally, I’m looking forward to what TA can do when Daniels gets back and there’s finally an adequate ball handler on that 2nd unit. A TA/Daniels backcourt could be defensively devastating off the bench.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jan 22, 2010 7:14 AM EST reply actions
TA/Daniels
Great points, I hadn’t thought of that. These guys might be great together and we haven’t had a chance to see them yet.
One negative point was his health
When Daniels was signed, the one negative point was his health. Since 2003 he has played per year:
56, 60, 62, 45, 74, 54 and this year 19 (of the 40) games.
If I remember correct – Larry Bird said he was a very good and talented player – if and when he played.
Let us hope this was enough for the year and he can still make a reasonable amount of games – especially the playoffs.
Btw
Has anyone noticed Scal’s (he who has been getting Q minutes) PER for the season. 4.4 worth of intangibles.
Daniels is sort of a forgotten man
His return should give the C’s a big boost.
I like the fact he is a versatile player since he can play both the point guard and small forward positions.
I like the size and length he brings to the floor when he plays in the back court since he can take his man down low and score at ease most times.
I like using his size in the back court as a defender since his length helps him be able to guard the bigger guards we go up against.
I also like the extra rebounding he gives us when he plays in the back court.
The rest he will offer Pierce though will be his the most important contribution he will give when he returns.
I like the idea of a defensive combo of TA/Daniels
However I think it can be a real problem offensively since you have no guards who can shoot with that lineup (except for Eddie).
Marquis has a consistent midrange shot but he is terrible from three, and TA is terrible from all over the court – except under the basket.
We have enough shooters
Conventional wisdom might say you need a 3 point threat in the backcourt…but TA/Daniels can be very effective when paired with shooters at other positions, such as Baby or Sheed, both guys who can stretch a defense. You definitely need shooting, but it can come from anywhere, not just the backcourt.
The problem with the 2nd unit, currently, is that it doesn’t play good perimeter defense, and can’t generate good shots. Replacing House with an injury-free Daniels could turn around both of those areas of weakness.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jan 22, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Ideally, with both KG & Daniels back
then Sheed comes off the bench for either KG or Perk, so he is going to be on the floor more with the second team. Doc rarely pulls ALL of his starters, especially since Daniels got hurt. He tends to leave Ray out there the most because he seems to get the best +/- out of the second team. However, early in the year he seemed to trust Daniels to play that ‘leadership’ role and maybe will give Ray more rest.
At any rate, at a full substitution, sitting all the starters, the second team should look something like:
Daniels, House, TA, Sheed, Scal/BBD/Shelden
That’s a lot of speed in 1-2-3. If Sheed and Shelden are in, then you have good potential for running a nice fast-break game because they can both rebound and start the transition. If you need better half-court defense, you’d probably want Scal in there. And BBD provides a decent all-around game.
The ripple effects are impossible to overstate. Right now, Sheed’s minutes are against first teams. He’s doing fine – but he can dominate against most second team bigs. And the second team is stronger with him on it instead of TWO of the Scal/BBD/Shelden trio. Daniels, similarly helps the first team by reducing Ray, Rajon & Paul’s minutes running with the second team. And Daniels is way better than most teams’ bench players at 1-2-3.
Folks get too caught up in false absolutes about how good/bad a player might be. What really matters most is how good/bad they are relative to their immediate opposition. Having everybody available allows Doc to setup his rotations so that everybody is poised for success.
Guys like Sheed aren’t just their to provide first-team depth in case Perk or KG get injured. He is primarily there to make the whole team (especially the second team) stronger when they are healthy.
We just need to get everybody healthy, dammit.
Agree...
…but just want to add that something else has been going on. The chemistry on this team has changed. Something deeper than rotations and health. I can only hope that KG will help restore the ubuntu that got this team to the promised land last time.
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