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Old friend Steve Weinman takes a look at J.R. Giddens for his blog D-League Digest.

about 2 years ago Shamrock-blk-trans_tiny Jeff Clark 14 comments 0 recs  | 

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Neither Giddens or Walker will be with the C's next year.

As usual, Professor, great article.

Rivers is lousy with youth, period. Particularly SGs and SFs. Hard to tell how far either Walker or Giddens would get anyway. Giddens appears to have the body but not the basketball IQ. Walker either doesn’t have the desire or can’t stay healthy long enough to get in NBA shape.

by Finkelskyhook on Jan 25, 2010 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks, FSK

Good to know you’re reading, and glad to hear you enjoyed the piece.

That said, while I agree with your comments in re: Walker and Giddens specifically, I think the criticism of Doc’s work with young players sometimes goes a bit too far. If he is going to be blamed for Giddens and Walker’s lack of development, shouldn’t that come alongside significant props for the growth experienced by Rajon Rondo, Ryan Gomes, Al Jefferson, Leon Powe, Glen Davis and Kendrick Perkins on his watch, just to name a few?

Further, on a team as talented and as oriented to winning right now as the Celtics of the last three years, I’m not sure just how fair it is to expect him to have used neophytes more. The Celts haven’t had a can’t-miss young player on these teams (which makes sense, considering they traded the five pick in 2007 to get Allen, won 66 games to get the 30 pick in 2008 and had traded their 2009 first-rounder), and with the exception of a few extra minutes to rest PP and Ray here and there, I’m not sure what Doc should have done with the young fellows.

Always good to hear from you.

-sw

Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.

Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw

by Steve Weinman on Jan 25, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

SW ....please amigo.....He only developed Gomes by mere chance of injuries

Had it not been injuries he had Gomes so far buried on the bench you needed a shovel to find him….has your memory gone bad? And don’t get me started on Leon Powe.

Al Jefferson? Doc gets props for developing him? Come on really? No way ….there isn’t a coach in the NBA who would have sat Al Jefferson on the bench….Doc just happened to see this one clearly because the star was so bright he couldn’’t miss it.

If any one gets credit for Perk or Al Jefferson it’s Clifford Ray……Doc ain’t stupid – he has a ring, he has the players respect, he is a solid coach but…….I refuse to give him credit where credit ain’t due…..

Even earlier this year on the few blowouts we had….he still had veterans in way too long – look at the NJ game. No excuse what he did there.

SW – you are quite the good guy despite your Mizzou background. LOL I just happen to strongly disagree with you on this point of “youth development and Doc”.

In terms of JR and Walker? Proof will be in the pudding somewhere down the road – even if we never got to taste it in Boston.

Peace

Is it Soup Yet?

by Master Po on Jan 25, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Certainly, Cliff Ray deserves plenty of credit for his work with our bigs,

and I wouldn’t dispute that in a couple of situations, as you’ve referenced, Doc has waited for what seems like a considerable amount of time before routinely using youngsters who became productive.

Still, those are all players who made considerable progress on his watch, and it seems unfair to me to rip a guy when he doesn’t play certain youngsters and then dismiss his sue of the good ones with the anybody-could-have-done-it hand wave.

Go Tigers tonight. And every night, really. But especially in Lawrence tonight.

-sw

Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.

Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw

by Steve Weinman on Jan 25, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol?

You say Clifford Ray should get credit as the bigs coach, yet Doc is a former PG and out of the players that Steve listed, for example, you’re arguably saying he only developed Rondo. Is this where you were going with Doc?

Anyways, Doc didn’t trust Pruitt, and what do you know, neither does the rest of the league! Well, except the Lakers’ D-League team. Hudson’s struggling to get minutes in MEMPHIS, although at least he’s on an actual NBA roster. I dunno, I think Walker and Giddens are just turning out to be horrid picks.

by Tai on Jan 25, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, back to back 23 point games

Unreal. The guy looks absolutely lost on offense for the C’s, but goes down and posts back to back 23 point games. wtf? I don’t get why he is so lost of offense for the C’s … it’s all in his head. You can’t score 23 points on back to back nights in the D-league without having a hint of skill … he’s got skills, just not the right mindset. Oh well.

by libermaniac on Jan 25, 2010 9:57 AM EST reply actions  

From what I understand...

Doc tells him to play defense and not worry about his offense. He seems afraid to take shots when with the C’s. Can’t blame him. Playing with Pierce, Ray, KG, etc. not easy for a young player to take shots with so many better players around him.

by Bankshot on Jan 25, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

In re: scoring

While mindset may have something to do with it, level of competition is almost certainly more crucial.

Case-in-point: Malik Hairston, assigned from San Antonio, scored 43 points Friday night and is averaging 31.6 points per game in seven contests. He has totaled 60 points over 36 appearances over the last two seasons for San Antonio.

 The D-League is littered with examples like that. Giddens will be able to score simply because he’s quick and a great leaper, which will allow him to finish around the rim with relative ease in the D-League. I’ll be more interested with how he scores than the point totals – i.e. his 4-for-5 night from three-point land on Thursday was encouraging. The jump-shooting needs to improve.

-sw

Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.

Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw

by Steve Weinman on Jan 25, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Steve

have you written or ever thought of doing an article on the future of the D-League in general and if it could/should become a true minor league for the NBA?

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jan 25, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

That's one my mind for sure, Jeff

I think there’s a lot to be said on that, and while I have a ways to go in covering all of the facets of such a discussion, I think you might be interested in this recent piece on the D-League’s expansion question.

Thanks for bringing this up – would be interested to hear your feedback about the points brought up on expansion in the link.

-sw

Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.

Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw

by Steve Weinman on Jan 25, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

giddens is a goner for the c’s. i just don’t know about walker. he could be a gamer if he ever gets in the game. and how about our boy montae?

by nazzbo on Jan 25, 2010 11:33 AM EST reply actions  

Good to hear from ya, nazz

Great to see Monta back in action and lighting it up this year, though it would be nice if he could regain some of his efficiency from 2007-08.

I find Walker a bit more intriguing than Giddens because of his size and the possibility for him to be a 3-4 combo guy rather than a 2-3, but his injury history remains a concern.

-sw

Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.

Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw

by Steve Weinman on Jan 25, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

JR & other newbies

On Jan 14 vs. Bulls, Giddens showed me why he’s never going to make it. That night I said “With 4 seconds left in the 3rd quarter, he got the inbound pass, fumbled it a bit, and then instead of stepping up and taking the long shot, he passed the ball to TA with under 1 second to go, making it impossible for TA to get a shot off. JR had no time to think. This was his instinct taking over… and his instinct is to NOT step up, but to make his teammate look bad instead. I say this guy is history, asap.”

You could argue it was JR’s defensive “mindset”, but that moment was a do-or-die event – no options. He needed to step forward, try to get contact, and definitely get a shot off. Instinct was all he had to act on, and he failed miserably. Someone in the comments thought it was wrong to judge a guy over so short a period of time, and I said I thought Doc would notice that play too and get rid of JR asap now. 6 days later he was sent to D-League.

Doc’s problem with new/young players seems to have begun with the arrival of the Big 3. Steve, we’d have to set aside your examples from before that time if that’s true… leaving only Leon and Baby. Doc did use them in their rookie year… but he had to use SOMEBODY… can’t play his starters 48 every night, and Leon and Baby were the only ones available for their position (after PJ).

Also, “can’t-miss” players are never going to be ignored by any coach (with a job). He’d have to be nuts. Doc’s problem is that he doesn’t give promising new players the opportunity to show their goods, or to develop. Lester is a good case in that point. And to a lesser extent, JR and Billy. I have been surprised many times at how badly Doc has overplayed his starters – especially Ray and Rondo – while Lester, who did quite well in the little time he got, sat.

Doc’s a great player’s coach with weaknesses in the areas of rotations and new player integration. I consider both of those subsets of his overall weakness of imagination. He’s a straight shooter, a can-do guy who doesn’t often like to look away from the road directly ahead.

by DRJ1 on Jan 25, 2010 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

The only rookies who will succeed under Rivers are players who already have skills.

Raw players like Giddens, Walker, Green etc have no chance.

With his awful draft position, Ainge has no choice, if he wants players that can contribute, but to choose undersized bigs or players with skills who have no position. Those are the only skill players left in the draft by the time he picks.

Powe, Baby, Gomes are the type of player who can crack the rotation.

by Finkelskyhook on Jan 25, 2010 3:50 PM EST reply actions  

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