Deeeee-troit Baaaaasketball (In Boston?)
Paul Flannery isn't the first to make this comparison, but he makes the point very eloquently here:
Five questions for the Celtics - WEEI | Paul Flannery
DOES THIS TEAM REMIND YOU OF ANOTHER? Yes, and it’s not necessarily a compliment. In terms of temperament, experience and even approach, the Celtics bear an uncanny resemblance to the Detroit Pistons, circa 2005-08. Like those Pistons teams, the Celtics have a championship in their back pocket. Like those Pistons teams, the Celtics believe they have uncovered the secret to winning games with their defense. And like those Pistons teams, the Celtics sometimes believe they can summon those qualities at will.
Well put. Of course I have some additional scattered thoughts....
Everyone has talked about how great Sheed is in the locker room, and I don't doubt it. But you have to wonder if there's any correlation related to the fact that he's the common denominator of the two teams. Not that you can blame one man for a team's general lack of killer instinct. And on the flipside, you can't count on one person (Kevin Garnett) to suddenly turn everyone into pit bulls overnight.
I think that whatever swagger-bug that bit the Pistons after their title has bitten the Celtics. They know they can do it and they know they've been to the top of the mountain before, and sometimes that makes you that much less hungry. When the Big 3 first came together, they had laser-sharp focus and were all-in from day one. Now, they talk the same talk but don't always walk the same walk (in part because they are too often walking with a limp).
It doesn't help that all the talk this year (starting in training camp) has been about preserving the vets and keeping minutes down. On one hand, I'd rather this team suffer from a lack of killer instinct in January than showing up for the playoffs totally burnt out. On the other hand, I sure hope the team really can flip the switch come playoff time. The Pistons could never do it and the Celtics aren't getting any younger.
Of course there is still plenty of time to get focused. We've got half a season left actually. In that time, they can get healthy, learn how to play together the right way, and carry that momentum into the playoffs. This stretch of games against the Magic, Lakers, and Hawks would be a great chance to get started down that road.
I'm just saying that there's a danger that the team could continue to run hot and cold and eventually form bad habits that aren't fixed before the postseason begins.
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They do play with switch off
on occasions and with point I agree. The talent level between the 2 teams isn’t close though so we got that going for us. Which is nice.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
To some extent
But this team is much more talented than the Pistons. KG, Pierce, and arguably Ray are all better than anyone on any of those Pistons teams. And fully healthy, with Wallace and Daniels off the bench, the C’s are much deeper.
Maybe they just don't care about HCA
…since they know they’re going to the playoffs, and they know they’re good on the road, they just don’t care about seeding. They’re using the entire reg season as one big training exercise, designed to identify flaws in their game and ways to fix them. To get as close to perfect as possible. Winning or losing a game here or there doesn’t matter to them… tho of course they’d rather win (esp KG).
The way this season is shaping up, that seems like a good plan. They’ll get Daniels back within the month, leaving them just about the right amount of time to get everybody up to full speed for the playoffs. And in the playoffs, I expect them to hit their top gear and stay there… through all 16 wins.
we agree rarely DRJ
But this is exactly my train of thought… this team is fine, and as long as they get to the postseason healthy there is nobody who will doubt that they are contenders, regardless of regular season record, HCA, etc.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Though I don't remember any disagreements with you...
…(maybe you have a different name on some other site?)… I think when 2 people who rarely agree agree, the probability that they are right is higher than it otherwise would be. I.e. – good!
Have thought this meself
As long as it gets turned on and rolling by April…
by Warrior Spirit on Jan 26, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Agree - the Celtics in '08 were the exception in recent history
To get the best record and win the championship has been quite rare lately – Lakers, Spurs, and Heat came from lower seeds.
That being said, there ARE hungrier teams out there – so it will be surprising if this team, healthy or not, can win a title as presently comprised.
Let’s see some action in the trade arena, Danny!
by nba is the worst on Jan 27, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah... it's called the "Sheed Effect"
I posed this question last week – Have you seen the C’s look less hungry since the acquisition of the Big 3?
Assuming you agree that, no, you haven’t – Is it a coincidence that this lack of hunger (or focus, or defense, or energy, etc) comes at the same time that Sheed joins the team? And if it is just coincidence in Boston, is it a coincidence that the same thing happened to the Pistons after Sheed’s first (abbreviated) season?
We know that Sheed is an oversized personality with a big mouth. Might he be adversely affecting the team’s psyche? I could certainly see how it is possible, given the way Sheed seems to care only in spurts… Where’s Danny’s braindoctor when you need him?
by milt palacio's shot on Jan 26, 2010 5:19 PM EST reply actions
Sheed cares a lot more
… this year than last. No comparison. You can see it in his reactions, his face, his manic “Ball Don’t Lie” yells, etc. Keeping in mind that he’s a vet and this is the reg season (see my post above)….. that’s pretty great.
When the playoffs come, I expect he will be all the way up… another fire source, in addition to KG… which will bring the overall energy level on this team to a peak. Higher even than 2008’s, possibly. Through 16 wins.
Sheed cares?
Look at Sheed`s gut in the photo above!
Are you a fan of Fiddler on the Roof?
Tevia……."On the other hand, our old ways were once new, weren’t they?.
On one hand, I’d rather this team suffer from a lack of killer instinct in January than showing up for the playoffs totally burnt out. On the other hand, I sure hope the team really can flip the switch come playoff time. The Pistons could never do it and the Celtics aren’t getting any younger."
They may switch it before then….but your point is well taken….Fiddler
Is it Soup Yet?
How did this team look when it had its top seven
Things were by and large looking good out of the gate until MD started playing hurt and then went down. Since then there have a lot of missed games by rotation guys. I think intensity is a lot harder when you’re not all on the same page. We had a Bench without Sheed or MD for 10 games.
Ainge's replacement pieces
Injuries has been key in some of the setbacks from winning the championship last season but i feel the replacements parts Ainge has gotten this season might be the key to where this team land.Its the same core(starters)from 2008,and i don’t see Sheed or anyone else effecting their focus when/if all is healthy,but i do question whether the 6th,7th,and 8th spot step up collectively and fill the roles of J.Posey,Leon Powe,and PJ Brown.
Bad BBD
I think Sheed has been certainly better then PJ Brown, and Marquis Daniels, when he was healthy, equalled Posey’s output (considering MD could play the point). The biggest failure is that BBD was out for such a long time, looks fatter then a ten pound robin, has a very inflated opinion of his abilities and played TERRIBLY since his return. He can’t shoot, can’t rebound. Not sure how his screens have been. But his major value has always been his ability to annoy Shaq and Howard by banging.
BBD
His conditioning will improve as will his confidence as he plays in more games. I think we will see a semblance of the BBD we saw last year as we get closer to March and April. IS there honestly a better fourth big man in the league then the BBD? If so there aren’t many. Maybe Bass. Not Powell or Mbenga. Maybe Hickson.
Meh. I still say its just about health & simple execution now.
Focus Schmocus.
They finally have gotten (almost) healthy.
They were something like 22-5 with all three of the Big 3 healthy before KG & Paul decided they had to use some sick days. They are 2-0 since KG’s return. So that’s (I think) 24-5 with the Big 3 all healthy.
That tells me that whether its intangibles like KG’s attitude or (more likely) tangibles like KG’s sheer freaking presence in the paint, the main thing for this team is having all their healthy bodies.
If Paul or Ray goes down, KG’s attitude would still be there – but they would probably tank almost as badly as when KG was out.
So now those guys are finally all playing again.
From this point, assuming they stay healthy. It’s all about execution.
They need to work out the kinks. Get Daniels back. Fine tune the rotations.
And stay healthy.
If they do those things, they’ll be fine.
I am not worried about some ‘killer instinct’.
usually like your articles
Jeff, but there has been so much negativity on this site lately. It is getting to the point where I don’t even read much of the stuff on here anymore. The team hit a bump in the road, but after all the injuries there what two games behind the Cavs and the Lakers.
The problem with this team is they haven’t been a team yet this year. Just as they were beginning to gel and learn their roles Marquis went down. Big Baby and Tony came back and were slowly integrated into the line up. Then Paul, Rondo and KG went down. Then they slowly came back. Point is despite it being almost the All-Star break this team hasn’t played together often. People have been pushed in then pulled out of roles.
The starting 5 have won us a bunch of games because of talent, but beyond them there appears to be very little chemistry. Last night really showed that too me. The bench didn’t know how to play as a unit, because they haven’t played much as a unit. Game hasn’t slowed down for them and as a result they don’t know where to look.
Also, guys like Rondo & Ray have been forced by circumstances to play more minuets than they should and it has taken it’s toll. Rondo paces himself at times and that isn’t good for the team b/c they are best when he is full tilt. It seems to have effected the legs on Ray’s jumper.
I think it is less a sense of entitlement then a team that hasn’t found its identity yet. Role players are taking on big roles then being pushed back to the bench, starters are in and out and those that are in play too damn much.
Health is the one and only issue with this team. If KG is there the team ups the intensity. If Marquis can’t come back and be effective then it is likely this team needs to trade Ray. Reason being if this team needs a 2G to run 40 min a game, it might be best they look at Monta. I love Ray, but Ray will be toast down the stretch if he is forced into that 35+ minuet role. I don’t like Monta nearly as much as Ray, I don’t think he is as good of a fit. But he is a better player than a burnt out Ray despite all the reasons I like Ray better.
Optimism
I agree we should be much more optimistic that this team HAS NOT ONCE had it’s full raotation for a regular season game this year. Baby and Quise haven’t been active during the same game all year. I think this team has learned from last year that the regular season is not the be all end all. Look where 27-2 got us after a short off season – injuries down the road.
Orlando, Cleveland, and Boston are the class of the east. Atlanta is not for real. They don’t have the size down low. They haven’t beat La, Orlando, or Cleveland and nearly lost to us without KG Twice and one of those games Sheed wasn’t playing. As long as we are healthy we have a great opportunity and we might be fortunate to only play one of the Cavs and Magic for a trip to the finals. Personally we match up better with Orlando in my opinion, but we can go into Cleveland and win like opening day.
Healthy we are the class of the east! We are getting healthy guys! Be positive its a marathon not a race.
I say
the Celts go 3-0 against the Lakers, Magic and Hawks. Nothing like big time comp to geankings.t this group moving. In two weeks Boston will be atop the Power R
With 3 games in 4 days...
Not impossible, but HIGHLY unlikely.
Magic want to atone for their poor showing on Christmas.
Hawks want to sweep, and it’s a road B2B (but IMO the most likely game for the Celts to take of the 3.
Laklers need to prove to themselves they are for real. And the Celtics haven’t looked good in the 3 games in 4 days scenario this season…
by nba is the worst on Jan 27, 2010 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
This Team Doesn't Remind Me of Detroit At All
We know you hate Rasheed Jeff, but don’t get carried away.
Interior Defense
In my opinion the Pistons were not the same when they let Ben Wallace go. Sheed has never been the guy “to hold down the middle.” They nearly beat the Spurs and repeated with Ben. And the following season lost to a Miami team that nearly beat them the year before. Perk is the equivalent of Ben and that interior defense was something they missed against Cleveland and Boston the following two ECF.
Also as many have noted Paul Pierce and KG are superstars that Detroit never had. I believe Billups at that time was better than Ray now but Ray is close to the equivalent of what Rip was, their second best player, when he is on.
Clarification
Ben Wallace left the year prior to the Pistons getting beat by Cleveland. Perk (interior defense)is something we have with the addition of superstars like KG and Paul that those latter Piston teams didn’t have.
Kane
no comparison is 100% accurate. there are similarities,the main one being the switch going on and off way too much. injuries have hurt the c’s but they are a factor in every team. look at how tough portland played us. this team can go all the way and maybe not. i would like to see “the big cat” davis become more of a force, and eagerly await the return of marquis. one thing ( among others ) posey gave us which is missing this year was rebounding off the bench.





























