CSL: In Case Of Emergency...
by Jeff Clark on Jan 4, 2010 9:38 PM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintKevin Henkin takes a look at the current Bill Walker situation by comparing it to situations from the past, including Ryan Gomes:
Ryan Gomes stands out as an example of a young player who flourished despite Doc's initial handling and not because of it. Recall that Gomes was glued to the Boston bench in the first half of the 2005-06 season, logging 13 consecutive DNP-CDs before the Ricky Davis trade (packaged along with Marcus Banks, Mark Blount and Justin Reed in exchange for Wally Z, the Kandi Man and Dwayne Jones). It was the long-term injuries suffered by Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins within a two week span following the Davis trade, however, that finally forced Rivers to insert Gomes into the regular lineup.
Now I'm one of the bigger Bill Walker fans and I'd love to see him get a shot, but I think I'm getting a little over-saturated with all this "play-Walker" stuff.
Doc has a maddening habit of playing his vets longer than we'd like him to (for a myriad of reasons). But just about any decent coach is going to want to win the game in front of him and is going to feel more comfortable with vets than not. It happens. He also played JR and Lester in the last game. He just chose not to play Walker.
Maybe he's not in top shape after injuries set him back. Maybe he's not grasping the defensive rotations quickly enough. Maybe he hasn't had enough practice time. Maybe, just maybe, he's not playing well enough to earn the time.
We just don't know because we aren't there. For every Ryan Gomes there has been a Gerald Green. For every Rajon Rondo there has been a Marcus Banks. If Walker earns the time and does something with it, great. If not, well, that's life. If the biggest complaint I have is that the guy at the end of the bench never gets a legit shot, I think I can live with that.
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Well put Jeff
I have also been rooting for Walker, I just feel like he definitely has some potential. But as you said, if that’s the biggest complaint, well, then we’re pretty lucky…i say this also assuming our injured guys will be back soon, and i won’t need to complain. here’s hoping!
by faithfulcelticfan34 on Jan 4, 2010 9:49 PM EST reply actions
I don't believe Walker is hurt.
I mean, he was just playing in the Dleague, wasn’t he? I also believe I heard on Celtics Stuff Live that he doesn’t have the work ethic the Celtics would like and he coasts in Dleague games. That’s what I heard anyway.
That's consistent with the talk this summer about Giddens moving ahead of him,
with what CelticsMedia has posted here, and with his being left on the bench—despite his looking to be their most talented prospect.
I think Kevin Hankin reads my posts
and then writes his comparative analysis…..yeah….I’m sticking with that theory
Is it Soup Yet?
The Unknown is Bright
I think a lot of fans look at players that don’t get much or any time and suffer from wishful thinking. I certainly suffer from that. There tends to be this hope that the guy on the bench has some super upside that will miraculously show itself one day and once again Danny will have been proven some genius. But yeah, I think for every Rajon Rondo there are several Marcus Banks’, guys that can play, but just not show it every single night at this level. They tease, but never deliver, and then they’re gone, or riding the bench somewhere else.
I think Walker, Giddens, and Hudson definitely have the talent. But after awhile, sitting and sitting, the confidence goes, and fear raises its ugly head. They don’t get the practice time, and it’s a long slow painful death (Like this post).
And then Doc is saying that once everyone is healthy, he’s got his nine man rotation. Wow, there’s a vote of confidence.
C's need a Walker ....
since they need a strong, long, athletic small forward defender off the bench who can guard, long strong, athletic small forwards, since these are the players that are giving the C’s most trouble which is proven by the fact most of our loses have come against teams with such players who have gone off offensively against us.
Walker (though not too long ) is the strongest and most athletic wing defender we have on the roster and he should be getting minutes since he can help this club not next year but now and come playoff time.
I just do not understand why Doc has him in the doghouse.
Walker plays tenacious, tough, physical defense that would come in very handy in the playoffs when / if we have to face Cleveland’s Lebron or Orlando’s Pietrius.
He has strong power offensive moves to the hoop and if he we were to develop a jump shot would be a threat offensively.
He has fresh young legs, has a lot of raw skills and upside and would only get better if he was given serious playing time.
Not playing him now ( with Pierce and Daniels out) is a crime , a shame, a waste of talent, especially since he is a player we need and can help us achieve title #18 this year.
C's do need a "walker" - you're right!!!
in fact KG, PP and Rondo could all 3 use a walker…..with tennis balls as front wheels.
Is it Soup Yet?
How Bad can Walker Be?
Maybe Walker hasn’t been playing well enough to earn minutes, but hasn’t Scalabrine been playing badly enough to lose minutes?
How badly does Scalabrine have to stink it up before Rivers looks for an alternative? Luckily, they are playing most of their games on the road. Otherwise, Scalabrine’s stench would be permeating all of Eastern Massachusetts.
And it doesn't matter how bad scal is because both he AND Walker are now deep bench
With BBD back, its pretty clear the depth for the bigs is something like (assuming everyone’s healthy):
KG, Perk, Pierce
Wallace, Daniels
BBD, TA, Giddens
Williams, Scal
Walker
Throw in the fact that Walker only plays the 3, while Scal & BBD both play all three big positions (even if not so well) and several of the other guys do two positions, then Walker is simply low man on the totem pole for getting minutes.
But folks should not feel too sorry for him. He’s only 22, fer crissakes! He’s a boy, sitting on the bench on a championship caliber team! He has time to grow and develop.
you're both right on the money
Doc loves Veal. Can’t fathom why other than he’s a vet.
Veal just isn’t delivering anything when he’s in the game. zip. nada. He’s certainly not outplaying Walker for those minutes.
I’m not going to profess I KNOW that Walker will contribute more. I’m just speculating that he can and for good reason. How can anyone else possibly produce statlines with all 0’s (excluding PF’s naturally) except Scal? Walker’s bound to produce something. The kid can at least provide some rebounding—unlike Veal who has guards go over him for rebounds. He can fill the wing on a fast break and actually be a threat to score unlike Veal who’s passed by everyone else on the way downcourt.
Any doubts about that reasoning? Use Giddens in the last game as an example. Even Giddens, as much maligned as he is here, produced some points, got his hands active on defense for some deflections/steals and a couple of rebounds. In short, more productive than Veal. No reason to suspect that Walker couldn’t do the same.
Doc sees no benefit...
Let me start this post by saying I like Doc and think he has done a good job. Now having said that, I must say that I disagree with his sentiment that there are no benefits to playing a game like Saturday night’s with so many veterans out.
Let me outline some benefits to playing the young players:
1. Showcasing – Trade values can be increased prior to the deadline (see “Tony Allen”).
2. Experience – Doc likes experienced players. If someone gets hurt during a playoff game, it would be nice to have someone on the bench who has had some game experience during the season to plug into the rotation.
3. Uncover a diamond in the rough – As Kevin Henkin noted: see Ryan Gomes, Rajon Rondo, and Leon Poe.
4. Rest – Playing the younger guys and lengthening the rotation allows the older guys to rest (or avoid being run down) during the long NBA season.
5. Team building – Winning a game with so many starters out has to give them an emotional lift. Someone goes down, the next person needs to step up (see “New England Patriots”).
Does anyone agree? Did I miss anything?
This makes too much sense...thus, it will never work!
Even though I see little chance of Bill Walker becoming a meaningful contributor to any NBA team…it still makes no sense to hide him on the bench at all costs.
Why have any player on your roster when you have zero confidence in him?
i seem to recall that PP getting injured was the reason AJ emerged as a high level player.. through necessity, he felt like he needed to carry the team. He started having 20-10 games while pp was out. cant remember what year it was.
imo doc doesnt give the youngs enough of a chance. throw them in the deep end, make the responsible and see if they can swim or learn to swim. otherwise you wont know how capable they are and they just take up space on the roster..
developing young players is VERY valuable to a team!
Yeah, but what's Doc supposed to say,
“Sure it’s a great thing Pierce came down with that career, if not life, threatening infection. Look how it’s improving the depth of our bench?”
At risk of being burned at the stake here, Doc chose Telfair over Rondo.And he was persistent with that opinon There is no need to use a bunch of brain cells to find a better example: For several months, maybe even for most of a season, doc liked him better and played him more than Rondo. Telfair started more games for us in 06-07 that Rajon did. By 20%. I am talking about Sebastian Telfair. I know. Its actually for real though
To try to stay in a safe zone here, Doc is probably not a guy who recognizes young talent. Danny Ainge, otoh, is probably an above average judge.
Recall that Perk and Al were never played together. but any comment I make isn’t as good an example of Doc, Telfair, and Rajon.
Not to say I was really happy about that situation, but…as I recall there was talk of a “big Sebastian Telfair NIght” around that time…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLlKMwSNZMM
…I wonder if Danny had any luck with that?
I think even though that deal was about ridding Lafrentz’s contract as much as anything, when you trade a lotto pick like that, there is an expectation that something evidently good is coming back. Not sure if Danny would’ve been happy to see Telfair rot on the bench while he got a bunch of questions asking why he traded a lotto pick for a bust. Could’ve been a lot more complicated than Doc chose Telfair over Rondo.
Also something to consider and maybe this applies to Walker (vs. Giddens) as well, but the contract. Telfair certainly had at least one less year than Rondo, and maybe they wanted to evaluate him first. And I wonder if the fact that Billy has a very favorable contract has anything to do with it. To channel JB of CSL fame for a moment, dare I say they could be repressing him a bit to keep his future value down. Hmmmm….ok, maybe not :)
Not cooked
As KH pointed out and the press reporting over the summer indicated, it wasnt RR’s skills that were in question but his leasership. Remember Coach saying to RR “do you realize your teamates hate playing with you” ? Soup wasnt cooked yet.
Berk, I have to say you have a point
Truth is Da brought them both here the same time(day) and maybe Telfair was first in the pecking order. Doc looks like an idiot for that while DA looks like a genius for picking RR when he did and dumping raef how he did.
Also raw
As for the other guys— Leon, I seem to recall, was slow on picking up rotations and was strictly a post threat. Perk was straight out off HS and had a high learning curve. Ryan G had ability but had to learn to play SF at the pro level. So in each instance, some development was required. And we dont see practices. So at this late date, I think we can credit that Doc knows his business?
Hey...
I still like Gerald Green… Go easy on the kid…
THE ARTICLE IS PURE HORSE CRAP
I think the article was written LIKE A REAL COMPANY MAN. Doc’s distaste for young talent is hurting the team. All this ranting about once the team is healthy Banner 18. I don’t know if it’s from blindness or sheer stupidity. The vet’s get a lead and are tired by the third quarter and fade down the stretch. At this point winning or loosing depends on who we are playing. The vet’s are tired now because Doc has played them into the ground with his 8 or 9 man rotation. The vet’s know that additional help is needed. PP said Walker was ready last year.
It’s part of the coaches job to get the best out of ALL of his players. No player shows up NBA ready, it’s a learning process that has to be taught by the coach.
I remember seeing Red in one of his TV talks explain what he expects from a team. He said I expect the guy that scores 20pts to give me that, I expect the guy that get’s 6 rebounds to give me that, I expect the guy that can only jump two inches and averages one and a half points to give me that. If they give me that we win. We need the contribution from everyone to win as a team. Doc Rivers is no Red and I understand that but the way he’s manages this team….. Doc is not a good coach for this team.
At this point I just want to see the guy play. He has NBA talent his contract is up at the end of the year and Doc is not going to play him.
For every Rajon Rondo
There are at least 10 Marcus Banks.
bill walker...
is a stud…. he should be getting all of paul pierces minutes.. i just dont understand what is going on with this celtilcs team…. they lie so much about so much stuff and keep so much stuff hidden.. maybe they dont want their fans to be bored so they put all this excitement and dramatic stuff so nobody knows what going on so you stay tuned and see what happens..
he will get his chance ..
in the begining doc never played powe alot he was always on the bench but powe got his shot and he became a good role player in our championship year in 08 when doc feels like walker is ready then he will play him but when will that be ??
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