Sellers Looking For Cash
by Jeff Clark on Jan 5, 2010 12:22 PM EST
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintThere is plenty of time to start getting into NBA trade deadline talk in the weeks ahead, but for now I'd like to point out what theme of this year's talks is going to be. It is the same theme we heard over the offseason, only it will be louder as the deadline approaches. Money, money, money.
Gone are the wishful thoughts of the offseason where everyone still has a chance. Now non-contending teams have been smacked with the harsh reality that their team is not getting any better and in many cases is getting worse. So the time to cut bait and save some money is drawing near. Simmons made this point in his recent column:
Bill Simmons: NBA trades should happen at a furious pace - ESPN
The long-term point: Until the NBA revamps its financial system after the 2010-11 season, we're going to see a handful of teams willingly weaken themselves just to save money. We got a taste with the Shaq/Jefferson trades this past summer, but this will be different. This will feel more like baseball: the "haves" preying on the "have-nots." This year's luxury-tax line is $69.2 million. Next year's line will drop to between $62 million (worst-case scenario) and $65 million (reasonable). What do you do if you own New Orleans, a .500 team that has $73.1 million committed this season and $71.8 million committed next season? Do you just suck it up and lose $12 million in tax money for these next two seasons on top of significant revenue losses? Or do you do something to change your destiny?
Here are just a few links and notes from around the league (which I'm sure is just scratching the surface) after the break:
NBA.com: Reeling Wizards brace for fallout from Arenas incident
On Sunday, the Wizards remained pessimistic in the extreme about Arenas' future. Even if the local and federal governments don't bring indictments -- and no one has the slightest inkling about which way that will go -- the Wizards not only think the league will ultimately throw the book at Arenas, but more than one employee believes that the incident will be the catalyst for wholesale housecleaning, on the court and in the front office
Struggling Jazz could face roster shakeup - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
Concerned about a lackluster start that has left them in ninth place in the Western Conference and motivated not to pay a hefty luxury-tax bill for moderate success, the Utah Jazz appear willing to trade anyone on their roster but point guard Deron Williams(notes), multiple league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
Looming contract deadline could prompt ... | Cleveland Cavaliers - cleveland.com
the Cavs have been on the phones taking a look at their options with some or all of their non-guaranteed contracts. There are a handful of teams looking to reduce their payroll. Two franchises -- the Utah Jazz and Phoenix Suns -- have already made minor trades to dump salary. The New Orleans Hornets have been attempting to clear off salary for the last few weeks and had a trade to do so last week fall apart. The Philadelphia 76ers and the Washington Wizards are also teams believed to be considering making changes to save money.
If you listen closely, you'll hear opportunity knocking. Similar to the Cavs, the Celtics should be buying in this market. The Celtics even have the built in advantage that they don't have to avoid future salaries the way the Cavs do (for fear of losing LeBron).
The C's have nearly $7M in expiring contracts between Scal, Tony, and Giddens to offer anyone looking to dump some salary. The C's can't completely sacrifice the future, but I think they'd be silly to not take a little long term pain in order to give this team a shot at the title this year.
Bonus Link: CelticsHub takes a look at 3 different roads the Celtics could go down.
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Anybody think we can get Caron?
Bill Simmons floated trying to get Prince from detroit. . . could we sucker the Wizards with same deal for Caron
Scal, TA, JR, and Big Baby for Caron works for the money.
We lose Baby in the front court, but Caron off the bench gives us another dimension plus another guy to gaurd Lebron.
Thoughts. Maybe Wizards won’t do it. Downside for the Cs?
Yes!!
I have been trying to get Caron for a while. If we could get him for expiring plus a #1 or for Ray Allen (he will be Ray Allen’s replacement afterall) I am all for it. His defense is great and his offense is solid enough.
He becomes our Lebron/Kobe/Carter/Joe Johnson stopper for the stretch playoff run and makes us a better team all around.
$, trades
S.I.com had a piece in their “Truth & Rumors” section alluding to the fact that the Jazz are trying to move Boozer and his $12.5 million. I also strongly believe the Wiz will be disbanding and starting from scratch next year. Arenas and Butler will be gone, maybe Jamison also. Butler is a great player and a great guy who has paid his dues playing for those shitbums long enough. I’d like to see him go to a contender. I’d love to see him come here if the C’s don’t resign Allen. Caron just plays ball, doesn’t talk shit and and works hard.
JB
by KobeWearsAPurpleThong on Jan 5, 2010 12:46 PM EST reply actions
Bill's trades
I’m not going to endorse many of them in that article, but at least he tried
I will say that I like the idea of getting Prince for our pu pu platter of expirings
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
I'd love to have Prince, too
Very long, multiple All-Defense Teams, Championship experience, knows how to play with Sheed, can backup Pierce, and can shoot the long ball. All great things for this team.
But has he even played this year?
There are Better Options than Butler
1. Chris Paul
2. Gerald Wallace
3. Tayshaun Prince
Butler doesn’t play much defense.
I also think it is clear that Boozer will be traded— and soon— but that’s not a cost cutting move since his deal is expiring. The Jazz will be looking for prospects and draft picks from a contender, e.g. Cleveland. The Jazz would also love to move Kirilenko, but I can’t see anyone taking him.
U don't actually think
Paul or Wallace are on the market do you?
by Warrior Spirit on Jan 5, 2010 1:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Brick… why the hell would the Hornets want Rondo and Expirings for Chris Paul…. so they can pay Rondo 9 million next year instead of paying Chris Paul 15 million? I seem to think the extra 6 million would be well spent on having the greatest point guard in the game as opposed to some borderline allstar who can’t shoot.
did you say Brick?
i think you meant to say AIRBALL
Probably Can't happen
Both Rondo and Paul are BYC guys. It would be almost impossible to work out a trade with them as the chief pieces. For instances we could only take back 4.5M for Rondo, but Paul makes 13M. That isn’t going to work very well.
However, the guy that is probably available is David West and we could get him with our expiring contracts. But would N.O. do that just to save money.
Yes, To Save Money
6 million next year, 5.5 million in 2010-2011, 5 million in 2011-2012 and 6.8 million in 2012/13, when Paul has a player option for nearly 18 million.
The total savings would be over 24 million.
Love to see it happen....
But, I wouldn`t trade Chris Paul for ten Rajon Rondo`s!
Why Wouldn't They Trade Him?
Wilt Chamberlain was traded (twice). Kareem Abdul Jabbar was traded.
For the right price, the Hornets would certainly trade Paul...
I`m just saying that, if I were a NO fan, I would hate to see Paul go for Rondo.
As a Celtic fan, I would love to see it happen!
Unlike most on this blog, I think Rondo is ridiculously overrated.
As for Jabbar {`75} & Chamberlain {`68}…both desperately wanted to be traded to the Lakers. Both pushed hard to get those trades done. Wilt was homesick for Philly in `65, and was eager to return when the Syracuse Nationals became the `76ers.
It will be interesting to see if we can get a good player for our expiring dump.
I sure hope it will happen but on the other hand I’m scared that other contending teams could benefit from this situation…
Bill Simmons just posted a fake trade idea which could be interesting for Boston, what do you think?
“1 more to get Celts involved: Chi gets Boozer/M. Daniels (exp); Utah gets T. Thomas/Scal/T. Allen (exp); Boston gets Hinrich. Sign me up!”
I think Hinrich would be a good addition but he’s got a huge contract and I would hate to lose Marquis to get Hinrich.
Don't like message
When a player like Daniels comes in for a discount and plays in a way that meets expectations, trading him sends a horrible message to future free agents who would consider coming to us for discounted prices.
Unless Daniels gets a serious injury that makes his remaining questionable, it is hard to justify dealing him. He is not merely an expiring. He is a contributor.
ditto on Daniels
>?don’t crap on FA’s that take a discount to come to your team. it’ll be remembered by agents and players for a very long time.
also, Daniels, TA and Scal is a steep price for just Hinrich. No one left to back up at the 3 besides Giddens and Walker.
Much too steep a price for Hinrich...
If Celts don`t get healthy, and compete fiercely for a title this year…Boston will suddenly cease being a destination that quality players will be willing to give salary discounts to sign with.
Well one little article brings out the armchair GM's
Let the trade games begin!!!
If you added a $10 fee for this site for every trade idea thrown out you could have take lots of vacations Sir Rants alot.
Is it Soup Yet?
yeah
I knew this would get people talking – happy to see it, I love this stuff
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
If a player of Chris Paul's...
… caliber became available; you would have to consider giving up Ray.
iif he was available...
id give up rondo and perkins to get him…
wow CHRIS PAUL?
No.
Rondo + Perk >>>>> Paul
Those guys are not only championship proven at probably the two hardest positions to fill (PG & C), they are YOUNG. As Warrior Spirit says: Good luck finding the Perk replacement.
raheed and KG
you would automatically win the title this year..
I seriously doubt that
and you would be completely mortgaging the future.
Perkins is a huge part of this team’s defense even WITH Sheed and KG. And while Paul scores more than Rondo, in most other categories its a wash – Rondo is better in some and Paul is better in some. Paul is not a whole “Perkins” more valuable than Rondo. That’s just silly.
Hmm
Well unless I’m mistakin… the Celtics have the ability to muster up 13.5 million in expiring contracts without even touching Ray Allen.
Scal = 3.4
Eddie = 2.8
Tony = 2.5
Marquis = 1.9
Giddens = 1
Shelden = .8
Walker = .7
Hudson = .4
Now obviously… packaging 8 players together probably isn’t going to happen (or probably is impossible… I think the other team needs enough roster slots to trade for them… even if they plan on cutting them)… but that’s a lot of expiring money to work with. If we packaged the first 5 guys together that equals 11.6 million. I think you can take back 125% of the salary you send out… so we could trade those 5 guys and take back a guy making 13.2 million. In other words… if someone is looking for a total salary dump, we definitely have options (without even touching Eddie House)
If you can do it with a Pencil you can do it!!!!
That’s an old bowling addage. But I don’t think we really look at the ramifications down the road. Fans tend to think of this as a Fantasy league. Let say we do something like that, what happen this year and next year. Our salary this years is $84M and we increase it by using our expiring contract to 86-7M this year. Oh yes, and if we trade more than we take back and drop below 13 players we HAVE to sign (3) players at a min of 400K in salary plus another 400K in tax on top of the 2M and 4M we acquired in the trade. Basically in salary and taxes we add 5M this year. Also, who fills the role of the traded player – the kids don’t have a role, but the other guys do.
Now what about next year. Our Cap # for 6 players is 63.3M and that doesn’t count Ray Allen or the new player we just added. That’s 13M in long term cap money which makes our cap # 76M. Do we resign Ray to say at 10-11M deal? That brings us to 87M. We have a 1st Rd pick add 1M – 88M. That brings us to 9 players. Do we use the MLE for 5.5M? That puts us at 93-94M. That gives us 10 players. We still need 3 players at aveage 600K our roughly 2.0M we are now at 96M. Do we want to fill position 14-15 another 1.5M – 97.5M. With the Tax threshold around 65M we would be paying 130M in salary and tax.
I don’t really think that’s going to happen. As a fan, I want them to spend the money and bring in players to guarantee a banner. But is it realistic?! My guess is a big, fat NO!!!!!
The only way I see them doing something like that this year is to pay the extra this year but not resign Ray this summer. And they are going to need a replacement for Ray next year using the MLE..
One option, if we decide to let Ray go next summer is a trade for Maggette from GS and get them to throw in A. Randolph, which they are supposedly willing to do to get rid of Maggette. But if a team will throw in a guy who has shown that he has big time NBA potential that is probably a big warning sign.
My gut says we do nothing. I said all that to say, we do nothing!!!!!
Mega 3-team trade idea:
If the financial situation is really that dire for New Orleans (and they kind of stink), what about:
Boston-Dallas-New Orleans
Boston Gives
Ray, Tony, BBD, Scal, Giddens, Rondo
Boston Gets
Paul, Peja, Posey, Kris Humphries
Dallas Gives
Dampier, Shawn Williams, Humphries, Gooden
Dallas Gets
Ray Allen, BBD, Scal, Giddens
NO Gives
C Paul, Peja, Posey
NO Gets
Tony, Dampier, Rondo, Shawn Williams, Gooden
NO saves 10 million off payroll immediately for a savings of 20 million this year. Dampier isn’t guaranteed next year, so then they just pay rondo next year instead of CP3, peja AND posey, for major savings next year; getting rondo allows them to sell it to their fan base a little bit.
Boston gets a top-5 player and replacements for Ray and BBD (Peja is not that much of a downgrade at standing out at the arc and shooting 3’s and Humphries is one of those garbage points and rebounds players). Plus Posey.
Dallas gets a floor spreader to pair with kidd and dirk and a strong, hustle f/c.
Not gonna happen
never ever… never going to happen
Tayshaun
for our expiring crap sounds great to me. I would much rather get my hands on Caron though.
If we start trading one of our top 8 players, I am relocating to the Nuggets blog and that is my last empty threat! But it all sounds foolish to me…why trade the possibility of a championship for a new round of rebuilding. Even if it is rebuilding on a relatively high level, new systems have to be learned and chemistry would have to be built.
If you must trade one of the big three, why would you trade the only one who has not broken down yet….the one who is in the best physical condition…the one who is the main reason the other two are still (in the case of Paul) or now (KG) with Boston. Maybe it would be better to trad all three and start again with Rondo and Perk? (This was said with tongue firmly in cheek!) I hate trades when we are doing so well…just don’t see the need for it. How many times have you guys been married? Do you have patience for “anything”? Are you never willing to weather any storm, no matter how small? (Or do you consider a three game losing streak a large storm?) Did no one ever give you a chance to complete a project? Did you fail if the chance was ever given to you? Is that why you don’t trust anyone to make a good decision?
There must be a reason we have kept our expiring contracts. Use them, Danny, do your magic once again.
I apologize
I usually don’t allow myself to get sucked into these trade threads for a very good reason.
I tend to go ballistic.
However, now that it is out of my system, how did I do? I am a wife and mother and guilt trips are one of my specialties. Sorry for trying to cast one on all of you.
Wow...
Talk about throwing some blood out there for the trade sharks. This thread did it… haha
Nice!
I concur with thirstyboots18. I think “trade-a-holics” are just a byproduct of the fantasy league-video game generation. You can’t trade intangibles like chemistry. The incessant whining after a loss about trading anyone on the C’s is an insult to my basketball intelligence.
Trade Intangibles
Point taken (and a good one) but can we PLEASE try and trade Scal’s intangibles?
No one mentioned loses
Sellers Looking For Cash was the title of the article. I am okay with what we have (good health permitted), but if a franchise player such as Chris Paul (not Gerald Wallace) became available, why would you not consider giving up Ray? This is about acquiring talent for twenty five cents on the dollar, IMHO.
Rafer Alston
he got bought out today, why trade when we can pick him up from FA
C's have a few weak spots that they can remedy by trading the expiring contracts we have.....
1st) They need a long, stong, athletic small forward defender since they have been giving Pierce and Daniels fits all year and we will be facing player slike that come playoff time.
They should be bale to get a decent one by trading TA’ s and his 2.5 million contract.
2nd) They need a long, strong power forward or center who is a rebounding specialist who can help us on the boards which has been a weak spot this year.
Again they should be able to get one by trading Scal and his 3.5 million expiring contract.
Yes it would be nice to keep both players and save the money next year, but we are on the brink of a title this year and Danny has some flexibility with these 2 contracts (Giddens 1.2 million one also) to make a trade to prime us for the playoffs and possibly help put this club over the top and win a title this year.
Very true fordescort...
I agree a wing defender and a serious rebounder off the bench in exchange for TA and Scal would be a wise move and would help better our chances of winning a title this year.
Ainge is lucky he has these 2 expiring contracts and maneuverability to help fix some team weak spots at the trade deadline to better prepare the for the playoffs.
The 2.5million TA makes and the 3.5 million that Scal makes is far more then the minimum salary is so should be able to yield semi quality, talented bench players in return.
Alot of teams will want those expiring contracts and Ainge should be able to find us a wing defender and rebounder using and trading them away.
Its nice feeling that this already good team can get better come the trade deadline if Danny can find the right deal(s) at that time.
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