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Around SBN: On Hazards And Hulks And Tigers, Oh My!

Pierce Alleys Rondo Oops...Celts Win

So that happened.  Ray slipped after recieving an inbound pass with 5 seconds to go in a tie game, thereby allowing Wade to repeat his game winning dunk routine.   With the game seemingly over, Doc pulls the old lob to Rondo from the playbook....and it worked.   Great screens, great pass from Paul and fantastic finish by Rondo to tie it as the buzzer sounded.

Bringing it to overtime, which was thankfully way less exciting as Rajon Rondo'd the Heat in the extra five minutes.

  • The box score doesn't tell the whole story, but Paul Pierce was very, very rusty.  The most obvious play was the good old PP-iso with 20 seconds to go in the fourth.   Paul couldn't get off a quality shot against the oft-traded Q-Rich and effectively turned it over.  Really it was a poor decision on Paul's part.  He was clearly off tonight, he should not have called his own number, but he's the captain so he gets the benefit of the doubt there.  
  • Rasheed Wallace had a killer stretch late in the third quarter where he was the best player on the Heat and single handedly demolished his teammates.  The stretch included tipping in a Wade jumper, a bad inbounds pass to Rajon, an ill advised pull-up brick three, an offensive foul, and a poor rotation leading to an open jumper for Haslem.   Coincidentally, the Celtics lost their lead during this stretch, which was the turning point of the game, for quite awhile.
  • Ray Allen picked up his third and fourth fouls in the third quarter.  I've never seen Ray react as negatively to a foul call as he did on the third foul.  And rightly so.   For stretches there, I thought I was watching the 2006 NBA finals with the Celtcs playing the role of the Mavericks and Joey Crawford being the bright shining star that we all want to grow up to be.....Would any NBA fan be sad if Joey just went away?
  • ....And then amazingly, Rasheed atoned for his prior hoops sins.   He rained in threes.  Some still ill-advised, but whatever they went in this time.   He grabbed a key loose ball setting up Rondo for a drive which gave the Celts a two point lead with two minutes to go
  • Ray Allen had a weird line.  9 early points, and then due to his foul troubles, he didn't score again until the 4th when he started throwing daggers.    That late turnover though was quite unlucky for Ray and nearly doomed the night.
  • If Rajon Rondo isn't an All-Star this year, then I don't know what one looks like.  25 points on 12 shots, with a frothy 7 for 8 from the line.   Rajon's eight assists were largely offset by a very uncharacteristic six turnovers, but Rajon hit so many key buckets in this game, including 4 huge points in OT.   That floater is AUTOMATIC.  Vote Rondo!  
  • The Celtics were killed tonight by offensive rebounds (17) and turnovers (24, but it seemed like 400).  
  • The Heat also did things.  Wade had 41 points, Haslem is killer from the baseline.  These guys will tell you more I'm sure if you're really interested.   Peninsula is Mightier

Box after the jump

Star-divide

Boston
 Starters Min FG 3Pt FT +/- Off Reb Ast TO Stl BS BA PF Pts 
  R. Rondo G 49:51 9-12 0-2 7-8 +13 0 4 8 6 0 0 1 4 25 
  R. Allen G 37:08 6-10 3-4 7-7 +13 0 3 1 3 4 2 1 5 22 
  K. Perkins C 40:49 7-10 0-1 6-9 +12 2 10 3 2 0 3 0 2 20 
  P. Pierce F 43:06 4-12 1-3 8-9 +14 0 6 5 5 2 1 0 2 17 
  R. Wallace F 35:33 6-11 3-5 1-1 +12 0 9 1 3 2 1 0 6 16 
 Bench Min FG 3Pt FT +/- Off Reb Ast TO Stl BS BA PF Pts 
  G. Davis 19:30 0-3 0-0 1-2 -7 2 3 1 1 0 1 2 1
  T. Allen 19:17 4-6 0-1 1-3 -14 1 1 0 3 1 0 0 4
  B. Scalabrine 11:42 0-2 0-1 0-0 -6 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0
  S. Williams 8:04 0-1 0-0 2-2 -7 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 2
  M. Daniels DNP - Coach's Decision
  K. Garnett DNP - Coach's Decision
  J.R. Giddens DNP - Coach's Decision
  E. House DNP - Coach's Decision
  B. Walker DNP - Coach's Decision
 Totals 36-67 7-17 33-41 5 42 19 24 8 8 4 26 112 
 Percentages:   .537 .412 .805   Team Rebounds: 11
 Miami
 Starters Min FG 3Pt FT +/- Off Reb Ast TO Stl BS BA PF Pts 
  D. Wade G 43:04 15-34 3-7 11-16 -11 5 5 7 2 3 1 3 5 44 
  C. Arroyo G 19:28 1-5 0-0 0-0 -9 0 1 3 0 1 1 0 2
  J. O'Neal C 34:40 7-15 0-0 0-0 -12 3 8 0 0 0 0 2 5 14 
  Q. Richardson F 35:58 1-6 1-5 1-2 -10 1 6 3 1 1 0 1 4
  M. Beasley F 24:59 2-8 0-1 1-1 -1 0 5 0 3 1 0 1 5
 Bench Min FG 3Pt FT +/- Off Reb Ast TO Stl BS BA PF Pts 
  U. Haslem 37:57 7-13 0-0 5-6 0 4 9 1 2 1 1 0 2 19 
  M. Chalmers 33:32 2-9 2-5 0-0 +3 1 3 4 2 3 0 1 2
  J. Anthony 18:20 2-3 0-0 2-2 +6 3 3 0 1 0 1 0 2
  D. Wright 17:02 3-5 0-1 0-0 +4 0 4 2 0 0 0 0 1
  D. Cook DNP - Coach's Decision
  Y. Diawara DNP - Coach's Decision
  J. Jones DNP - Coach's Decision
  J. Magloire DNP - Coach's Decision
 Totals 40-98 6-19 20-27 17 44 20 11 10 4 8 28 106 
 Percentages:   .408 .316 .741   Team Rebounds: 7

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Thought about the refs too often

When watching a game, if I think about the refs, it is not a good sign. Like offensive linemen who get their name called, it is usually a sign they’ve done something wrong.

I thought this was one of the worst refereed games I have seen.

by VtCeltics on Jan 7, 2010 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Crawford is horrible - but his grudge against Richarson was key

Ridiculous call on PP’s charge, but the tech was a momentum changer, and then the traveling call helped seal it

by nba is the worst on Jan 7, 2010 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Wade was dogging it

I know he scored all 5 of the Heat’s points in overtime but I don’t think you could miss the fact that he was completely frustrated in overtime. He gave up the ball on several plays way too easily and he didn’t get within 20 feet of the basket except for the breakaway dunk. Not that you can blame him after he puts in a great effort during regulation and the Celtics are just a bit tougher and his Wade’s teammates play terribly.

That said, great effort by the C’s to get back in it and one amazing play to tie it at the buzzer.

by Reddo on Jan 6, 2010 10:42 PM EST reply actions  

Whoops

My fault, thought my fanpost didn’t get up so I waited till the game thread was up.

by Reddo on Jan 6, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Without Wade Miami loses by 40

He played a ton tonight, took a ton of shots and went to the foul line 16 times. The guy made a great steal on Ray. He had to be tired in overtime. I’ll take him on my tems.

by vinnie on Jan 6, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo = an All star.

And quite possibly our MVP.

- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
Twitter: @4Hoopz

by Kiorrik on Jan 6, 2010 10:42 PM EST reply actions  

Wow.

What a game. What a finish. Not sure we even deserve to win haha. But it was awesome nonetheless.

by Greg Payne on Jan 6, 2010 10:42 PM EST reply actions  

oh we deserve it

it seems to me that the C’s seemed to play harder towards the end of reg and OT. The Heat have been Rondo’d indubitably!!

"I was like a kid in a candy store running around with his head cut off ,,,," 0_o

by CaliforniaGreen on Jan 6, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Would any NBA fan be sad if Joey just went away?

… what are you … “suggesting”?

[insert creepy laughter]

- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
Twitter: @4Hoopz

by Kiorrik on Jan 6, 2010 10:43 PM EST reply actions  

…I’m just sayin….

When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"

by Green17 on Jan 6, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

What a win

THAT’S why Rondo got the big bucks. The kid has grown up before our eyes and he makes more and more big plays as the game goes by. Needless to say we don’t come close to winning this game without him. Nice to see ’Sheed and Ray pitching in with some big buckets as well, and Ray did a very good job on D-Wade in the fourth quarter.

The stretch between the middle of the third quarter and the middle of the fourth is probably the worst 12 minutes I’ve seen the Celtics play this season, but they were brilliant for the most part down the stretch and in OT. An extremely satisfying win considering they overcame -13 turnover differential and -12 offensive rebound differential. Hopefully Pierce and Rondo are no worse for the wear with two bigguns against the Hawks coming up.

by joebianca on Jan 6, 2010 10:46 PM EST reply actions  

That was a miracle

They took 98 shots and we took 67. We had 24 turnovers. They killed us on the offensive boards. And we still won the freaking game. An absolute miracle.

by vinnie on Jan 6, 2010 10:46 PM EST reply actions  

THey took so many shots because they MISSED so many shots

We actually played good D for all but the first qtr and late in the 3rd. But after forcing them to take a crappy shot, we kept giving them the offensive board – hence all those second chance shots.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I hear you

But a team does not often win taking 31 fewer shots than the opposition.

by vinnie on Jan 6, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah, it was totally the correct call

Yes, Pierce basically stepped right into him – but Q was in motion. It was an easy call – gonna go that way every time.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

? Correct call?

Check the homer goggles on the replay – Pierce initiated the contact, I mean get serious

by nba is the worst on Jan 7, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Continue to be hated

Games like these are one of the reasons teams hate us. We have players who can just suck the life out of a team, arena. Just so many cold-blooded killers. Ray, Paul (not this game, obv.) and now Rondo. I enjoy winning these games, especially when Wade’s dancing around, loving the fact that he (thought he) just won the game.

by BOSPORTS on Jan 6, 2010 10:47 PM EST reply actions  

Box and One

You rarely see box and one in the NBA but the Celtics played it quite a bit on Wade in the 2nd half. I don’t blame them, given how the officials were coddling Wade.

Except for the biting on that one upfake, I thought TA did a pretty good defensive job, and so did Ray Allen. Another unsung hero was BBD who got quite a few offensive rebounds.

But the play of the night was Pierce’s pass to Rondo. That was just a great, great pass.

by Brickowski on Jan 6, 2010 10:48 PM EST reply actions  

right on Brick.

Pass was perfect. And TA did a fantastic job. That late three by Wade was still a ridiculous shot, sometimes the offensive player just gets one.

When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"

by Green17 on Jan 6, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

You got that right

The Heat were crushed by that perfectly executed play, basically gave up.

Can’t overlook the 4th quarter threes to overcome the 11-pt deficit either. GREAT game – best of the season so far IMO

by nba is the worst on Jan 7, 2010 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Great win....

Players played hard.

Rondo was great and Rasheed was auesome as well going for 16 pts and 9 rebs tonight.

Celtics must though address the poor rebounding season they are having.
They got killed on the boards tonight and we can not continue with this weakness heading into the playoffs.
I still say trade Scal for a rebounder ASAP.

Go Celtics !

by fordescort on Jan 6, 2010 10:49 PM EST reply actions  

very good summary..

 I thought the same thing about sheed during the 3rd qtr. And what was up with him when he got his 6th foul? he acted as if he didn’t deserve and it looked pretty legit to me. joey crawford is a tool and should be suspended. His calls tonight were ridiculous. I’m sure Heat fans will complain about the number of times we got to the line and the call on quentin richardson but to me he clearly didn’t give pierce any room to move so I thought it was a good call.

by Red2 on Jan 6, 2010 10:55 PM EST reply actions  

Wierd officiating

Felt like they were letting them play at some points and then had a quick whistle at other points. Just not consistent at all.

Also, this might just be me but I thought Pierce got away with on on that blocking foul against Q. I know he’s not a good defender but it really looked to me like Pierce brought his elbow down against Q who was in position. A lot of horrendous call went against the C’s too so I’m not complaining about them giving us one.

by Reddo on Jan 6, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

The q-tip call was one of the few good ones I thought; that guy deserves everything he gets as far as I’m concerned

Rasheed’s 6th to me was borderline, but at that point they had really started to let a lot go especially in the rebounding action. I understand why he was upset. It must be even more upsetting after they called so many throughout the game, a lot of them questionable.

As for Joey Crawford, the guy stopped reffing games long ago; he’s just out there to prove a point to anybody and everybody he can.

by Berkcelt on Jan 7, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Crawford thinks he's more important than the game

You are so right, it’s ridiculous that he still has his job…

Agree with Reddo, that call was a huge momentum changer, especially with the (stupid) tech

by nba is the worst on Jan 7, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Well let me say these 10 things

Nice nice recap – love some of those lines and you used the word “frothy”(bonus point)

Chat room was great tonight

BBD had some big rebounds as did Perk

When Rondo drives our team is exPOnentially better. Rondo is an All Star

Ray Allen never stops moving and I love him for who he is

14-4 on the road…best in the NBA

The Heat announcers (which I had to watch) had me close to an angry nervous breakdown….Casey Kasem try the decaf.

Wade is great but I just don’t like him….but he is very good

Arroyo has eyebrows that creep me out – I don’t want him on the Celtics….

Scali in the pre-game “FIT” t-shirt should have said “SIT”

  

 

Is it Soup Yet?

by Master Po on Jan 6, 2010 10:58 PM EST reply actions  

Hey come on

Scals had 4 rebounds in 11 minutes tonight. That is about a 4,000 percent improvement over his production this year. Everything else was a zero, but that is no surprise. No more Scal!

by vinnie on Jan 6, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Wade is great...

…and I love the guy. There’s no other player I would want to see in green more than Wade.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn't he a FA after this year?

If we let Ray play out the year and then he walks. … Would we have enough room to sign Wade?

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

No, we're still well over the luxury tax - so when Ray comes off, we'd still be over or close to cap.

The only way to sign Wade is if we renounce rights to Ray and Paul opts out and we renounce rights to him as well – that’s assuming we don’t trade our other expirings (Scal, JR, TA) to for a longer contract like Nocioni. And even then, with Rondo’s raise I don’t think we’d have much to offer.

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Jan 6, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Wade has said he'd take a cut

…for the chance to play for a real contender. So there’s some, admittedly remote, chance. I would just LOVE it…. but then everybody will want Wade…..

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Wade is a max guy, I doubt he'd come to Boston for 10 mil or less.

Doesn’t matter anyway, cuz if Paul opts out to restructure, we’re not renouncing our rights him. Its a mute point.

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Jan 6, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it may be too simplistic

…but I always thought that if Ray comes off the books, that’s 18m. Add a couple of other expirings… and you’re there. Certainly if he’s willing to take a couple mill less. Still in tax territory, of course, as we are now…. but there.

But of course, it is a fantasy. A good one tho :)

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Our payroll is just over $84m, that's $22m over cap

Once you take off Ray’s salary of $19m, (not including cap hold) we’d still be $3m over the cap. Take off the extra $6-8m in other expirings, we’re just under cap by $3-5m. Dwade ain’t comin’ here for $3 or 5m.

Now if Paul opts out to restructure, there’s still a cap hold on him until we A.) resign him B.) renounce our rights to him. Option B. will never happen.

And then you have to account for the $7m raise in Rondo’s salary…

So its not a fantasy so much as it is an impossibility. The only way we get Wade is through a trade, and Miami won’t let him go unless he forces his way out.

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Jan 7, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, thru a trade

Of course, cause there’s no other way to stay so far over the cap. Sign and trade Ray, perhaps? O nevermind… it’s only a fantasy.

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Sign and Trade Wade for Ray?

hahahaha, that was a funny joke…

If Miami did this, Pat Riley would have to hand over his letter of resignation immediately… or his head on a platter…

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Jan 7, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Unless Wade forced the issue?

I have the impression that Wade could make it happen…. but not at all sure. And anyway… we all know it’s not gonna happen. (But it’s not completely impossible.)

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Yea... too bad Miami is in prime position this offseason

They’ll be able to add a major free agent (most likely Bosh although LeBron has said its not impossible) and resign Wade, so he bunkers down and rides out the rest of the “crappy” season… Not to mention Beasley is starting to play like he doesn’t have his head up his butt – they have scary potential for next season.

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Jan 7, 2010 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

From Wade's interview a couple of weeks ago

…and reports of his interactions with Lebron, and even his demeanor today… I think he’s quite unhappy with Miami. He and Beasley reportedly don’t get along too. There’s no knowing of course, but the overall impression is that he’s had it and is going to move on. I wouldn’t blame him…must be very frustrating to be that good and still lose many games because you have so little support. He said recently that the money is not as important to him anymore as winning. Of all the guys going into FA, his story is going to be the most interesting to me.

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 2:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I am still confused....

Can you clarify RJ87 the following for me:

The Celtics are this year currently 22m over the cap ok.

Lets say Ray is not signed next year and his 18 m contract comes off the books.

Are you saying we can not offer Rays 18m contract to some big fee agent next year??

If not why?

 We were using that 18m to pay Ray this year so why can it not be applied to a pay a free agent next year?

Please help my confusion.

by leothetiger on Jan 7, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Need an exception

…to go over the cap. Like a trade.

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Have always liked u Po

Solid points with a certain frothiness

by Warrior Spirit on Jan 7, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

we beat the heat in the begining of january woooooooo

Like I said before docs an ass two players first game back from injury paul pierce plays 44 minutes rajon plays 50.and mr healthy ray allen plays 37 .I guess I should be excited too but I’m not.what does the win mean honestly.That we can beat the heat,or that we got a win to stay in pace for home court I could see that maybe .Just doesn’t make sence to me for it to be ok to jsutify a win over the heat in the begining of january ,while subjecting two of our most important players fresh off injury to 44 and 50 minutes and I knew it was gonna happen

by reggie_35 on Jan 6, 2010 11:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I think too many of you guys overreact to the minutes

Hoy come guys like Kobe and Lebron and many others play tons of minutes and are still strong at the end of the year? I have read many interviews with players who say the minutes things is totally overrated and I will believe what they have to say.

by vinnie on Jan 6, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The Right Dose

It’s not like Doc is doing this game in, game out, right? Re Rajon, Doc said he didnt think he could sit him for fear the hamstring would tighten up —and its not like he has a lot of options.

In any case, its good for the collective mojo to scrap through wins like this one. Develops stamina and swagger for the postseason.

by Tenacious D on Jan 7, 2010 7:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Ray was in foul trouble

if he wasn’t, he would have played just as many minutes.

and vinnie, I like your attitude. I don’t like when people think that minutes is a zero-sum game. that if we overplay them at this time of the year, the league would only allow them 4 minutes a game during the playoffs.

by KY Celts fan on Jan 6, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

its not as if they don’t put in a lot of minutes during the year in the practice gym – those are a lot easier for the coaches to control and trim if needed.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

people are always gonna complain, no matter what the outcome.

we won, be happy for .6 of a second.

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Jan 6, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

.6

Nice one, RJ! :)

by Hal Jordan on Jan 7, 2010 12:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Box score posted here excludes OT

… explains why all the numbers are wrong.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:01 PM EST reply actions  

Fixed now. Yahoo hosed me. Just like the AP photo editor is with no shot of Rajon’s lob. Thx for mentioning it, shouldn’t you be making up injury stories though?

When Perk was asked what he thought of Howard winning the gold medal this summer, he responded: "What’s his impression of me after I won a ring?"

by Green17 on Jan 6, 2010 11:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Lol

No need, green. Doc and Danny are doing a great job all by themselves!

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Sheed was really the rock for us in this game

as his +/- shows. Through much of the first 2/3 of the game, the team looked helpless when he wasn’t on the floor.

BBD struggled through most of the game with the length of his man. Late in the game he started to play more physical and that made a huge difference.

Rondo played great – but I could tell he still wasn’t 100%.

Pierce played much better in the last 2 minutes of regulation and especially in OT, but his timing was terrible through most of regulation – missed shots he normally makes and made some horrible passes.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:02 PM EST reply actions  

Doc and Ray just don't understand, I guess

… that Ray is not a good ball handler. Three times he gave it up under pressure while dribbling, including what everyone thought was the game killer. And again in OT, with seconds left in the game, Ray gets the ball, and instead of waiting for the inevitable foul, HE DRIBBLED THE BALL SURROUNDED BY WHITE SHIRTS. Luckily he was fouled, but for a great vet who we all think is one of the smartest around… he apparently does not know that he can’t dribble. And Doc too appears to be blind to this obvious fact. Amazing.

Do you think they might learn something from this game? After all this time, I’m not hopeful…

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:06 PM EST reply actions  

What planet have you been on?

Ray is exactly who they want to have the ball in those situations. He is the best FT shooter on the planet and you want him to get fouled. If he’s got the ball, he’s gonna have to put it on the floor sometimes.

Ray is no where near the class of Rondo when it comes to ball handling, but he is no slouch. He’s probably second only to Rondo for minutes spent dribbling the ball this season. Wade made a great play. Give some credit.

The Celtics as a TEAM committed dozens of mindless turnovers tonight.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Earth

Where Ray Allen cannot reliably handle the basketball. I would have thought that was perfectly obvious, after ALL the TOs he has generated, in almost every game, trying to dribble where he clearly cannot.

You want Ray SHOOTING… not dribbling.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

But in the closing minutes - when the game becomes a game of free throws

he has to have the ball in hand. He can’t just move without the ball, recieve pass & shoot.

He has to have the ball in his hands in the last seconds of the game. If not his, then Pierce. That’s how we win games.

And no – what you say is not obvious. His TOV rate is actually down to 1.7 per game this year, well below his career avg of 2.3 – neither value is particularly high. And that’s while putting in a lot of minutes per game.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right

about wanting the ball in his hands when a foul is expected, of course.
It’s all the other times he tries to dribble or pass and ends up with a TO that’s so frustrating with him.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you are focusing with a projection in mind

In reality , he doesn’t do that any more than anybody else. Even Rondo dribbles out of control at times.

The numbers just don’t support your ‘perception’ here. Allen is not a great dribbler but he is not particularly TOV-prone.

Ray is our team’s minutes leader. That means he’s going to be a leader in a few negative categories as well as positive. But those are aggregates and not necessarily reflective of inefficiencies.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

We disagree

Ray has shown over and over his propensity to lose the ball during his dribble. And also with his passing. Even you must admit those are not his strengths. With Rondo on the team – the best in the NBA in both categories – Ray should be doing those things minimally.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

My admitting that those are not his strengths

only comes because his strengths are moving without the ball, catching and shooting.

But Ray has always been one of the best in the NBA at driving the baseline. He has to dribble to do that. You are simply wrong here, DRJ1. You have grabbed onto a misconception and looking at sporadic events to reinforce that impression.

You say ‘he has shown over and over his propensity to lose the ball’ – well, show me some numbers that support that impression.

If you can, I’ll believe it. Until then, I think its just your subjective (mis) impression.

The only numbers I see suggest he is anything but a turnover machine.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll try to find numbers for you

… but not now. Takes some digging, because it’s not his total TOs, but the type of TOs we’re talking about. The ones where he tries to dribble (or pass) beyond his abilities. Yes, these are my subjective opinions, because I don’t run to the stats to verify every impression… but this one about Ray is long-standing, dating back to last season. I know he bites off more than he can chew when it comes to dribbling (and passing)… but not always, just about 2-3 times per game.

If I find number to back up this (strong) impression, I’ll post em.

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting how you changed the discussion

…by bringing in Ray’s overall TO stats. Good job. Because in fact, his overall TOs have very little connection to the point I was making, which is that he can’t dribble reliably.

His overall TO stats are based on many things, including how many touches he gets, and what fraction of his touches are catch-and-shoot, or catch-and-drive with 1-2 dribbles to the basket (which is a terrific strength of his), vs. catch-and-try-a-difficult-dribble. It’s only that last that I am talking about, so the overall TO number is almost entirely irrelevant. That’s why it was such a good job you did in (mis)directing the conversation.

It’s probable that there is no hard number out there to quantify how often Ray tries a difficult dribble and loses the ball. My very strong impression is that it happens VERY often… RELIABLY, in fact. And it’s surprising to me that an otherwise astute observer like you has not seen that.

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Have his minutes changed significantly year over year?

No.

How big is his TO/game number? 1.7

Are you going to parse that down to which fraction of the 1.7 is due dribbling in traffic versus which is a bad pass? Its a small number for someone on the court 36 minutes per game.

by mmmmm on Jan 8, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Sheed really has changed

Many said after his ejection that Sheed is who he is and will never change. Well, he has. He kept his cool till the very end tonight. Yes he lost it on his 6th… but you’d have to be superhuman not to with the way the refs called this game. And… no tech. In fact, you could see him speaking respectfully to the refs at various times during the game. The man has changed, right before our eyes. (And his game also improved in the time since his ejection.) This is excellent news for the Cs.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:09 PM EST reply actions  

I really thought Sheed's 3 pt shots were beautiful tonight

He finally was putting a nice high arc on them. Surprise! They went in!

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

They waived Lester

Surprised, and disappointed. Hope the kid finds a home. Hope he does well… certainly has the potential.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:11 PM EST reply actions  

'Still a chance they resign him later.

I don’t think his NBA story is finished yet even if they don’t.

by mmmmm on Jan 6, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I really don't know why

…but Doc never seemed to like Lester much.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Off-guard

His point play is/was a work in progress. Vs the Raps, he looked a little lost trying to initiate the offense—standing about dribbling. And Doc was down on him for forcing some passes. His best moments were catch and shoort plays. Ergo, still an off guard mentality

by Tenacious D on Jan 7, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Understand why they did it, and hope it leads to point guard signing

but I think the team handled this terrible. bring the guy on the trip, let him practice, then tell him he’s off the team? I don’t believe in karma, but if I did, I’d be expecting something bad to happen.

by KY Celts fan on Jan 6, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Lue?

Are they gonna bring him in? Hoped for someone better…. younger…. but maybe not.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought Paul looked thinner

CLEARLY not ready for 43 minutes tonight. And Rondo played 51. Ummm…. please Doc, don’t kill the players.

by DRJ1 on Jan 6, 2010 11:13 PM EST reply actions  

that was a great win. that pass- that shot-that play-wow! had me fooled. i thought it was all over and was cursing wade, even tho he is my favorite superstar on another team. but doc played pp way too long, and left him in to look foolish when he was spent. too many mins. for rondo as well. we do have a bench.

by nazzbo on Jan 6, 2010 11:29 PM EST reply actions  

If I see tyron lue in a celtic uniform I’m gonna lose it but hey there’s an upside he can dribble……

by reggie_35 on Jan 6, 2010 11:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Ty Lue, in my opinion, would be one of the better options

He’s with the team at every practice, and at every game. He shoots with the players before the game. He’s basically on the team already without playing in the games. He most likely knows all the plays, all the player tendencies, he has a good relationship with the players already.

Follow me @jimmy_toscano

by Jimmy Toscano on Jan 6, 2010 11:54 PM EST reply actions  

He's talented enough to be a backup point guard.

It’s pretty clear that Rondo is going to get the majority of the minutes. Lue can play the point guard position well, which is something that we don’t have much of in a backup right now. If Rondo is playing 35 minutes a game, you only need 13 between Lue/House… I think that is fine.

Follow me @jimmy_toscano

by Jimmy Toscano on Jan 6, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Then perhaps that's their backup plan

if nothing materializes by trade. Good to have something in your back pocket. I know everybody likes the guy, esp KG, who’s a close friend I hear.

by DRJ1 on Jan 7, 2010 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t pick Lue to play on my team on the court behind the BMW dealership on Comm ave.

by adubson on Jan 7, 2010 12:09 AM EST reply actions  

LAKERS ARE ABOUT TO LOSE TO THE CLIPPERS!

This is a GREAT day.

Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!

by RJ87 on Jan 7, 2010 1:01 AM EST reply actions  

Savor the moment!

I love these days. I believe it is the fourth time it has happened so far this year.

by KY Celts fan on Jan 7, 2010 1:16 AM EST up reply actions  

woohooo! amazing. this is our second overtime win, right? i hate that i always miss the exciting games

by cheekmeister on Jan 7, 2010 1:40 AM EST reply actions  

Sorry you missed it….it was a dandy!!!

by wingate on Jan 7, 2010 1:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Pierce's Pass

Paul as expected was rusty and didnt have any lift in his legs tonight. However his pass to rondo was absolutely perfect in both the placement and timing. Great execution all around on that play.
I love spolestra’s reaction halfway into the play when he realized the ball wasn’t going into ray but was already in rondo’s hands at the hoop.

"BING BAM BOOM BRUNO!!!" - Tommy Heinson on Bruno Sundov

Dethklok Fan

by TAOSET on Jan 7, 2010 4:49 AM EST reply actions  

i love that both PP and Ray kicked their right legs just as Rondo hit the game-tying shot.

by cheekmeister on Jan 7, 2010 6:29 AM EST reply actions  

great game

excellent recap, thanks Green17

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V

by Jeff Clark on Jan 7, 2010 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

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