Both Shaq and Jermaine Could Sit Thursday

by Tom Bellinger on Nov 10, 2010 3:04 PM EST in Boston Celtics News & Links

Bad news today regarding Thursday's game. Both Shaq and JO have chronic injuries that will likely never leave either player entirely, let alone improve with any kind of real progress this season. Get used to comments like the following:

Speaking to reporters before Boston's offday practice session Wednesday morning at the American Airlines Arena, Rivers hedged his bets on whether either O'Neal will suit up. At least one has played in every game this season, but never both (Shaq played the first three games; Jermaine O'Neal the last five).

What Rivers did know was that Shaq, sidelined with a right knee bruise sustained in a win over the Knicks last month, was set to test his knee at the session, while Jermaine O'Neal planned to sit out the practice.

"No, I have no idea [about Thursday]," said Rivers. "J.O. will not practice [Wednesday] and Shaq's going to try to do a little bit [Wednesday] to test it. I would say likely neither [will play Thursday]; Maybe out first adventure into the no-big world. But we'll see. Maybe both. Who knows?"

(via Chris Forsberg's Practice Report)

There are going to be nights when both of them are doubtful, and they both play, then there are going to be nights where both are doubtful, and neither play. The good news is that after the game tomorrow against Miami, there is a day of rest, then a game against Memphis. Doc is playing coy right now, but I imagine at least one of the two of them will play and get the start.

If neither O'Neal plays a very heavy burden falls upon Semih Erden and Glen Davis to have consistent if not exceptional games in order for the C's to have a shot at a W tomorrow.

Tweet Comment 30 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

JO

Danny seems to be in a camp alone on this one…this is no surprise with JO.

by house_call on Nov 10, 2010 3:19 PM EST reply actions

We just don’t have enough O’Neals. We need at least 2 more.

by BouncingBuckeye on Nov 10, 2010 3:32 PM EST reply actions

haha

by beantownboy171 on Nov 10, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions

lol

by fordescort on Nov 10, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions

I know the market was bad for big men this summer

but it’s beginning to look like that MLE could have been better spent elsewhere

by Josh88 on Nov 10, 2010 3:37 PM EST reply actions

Who would you prefer?

Brad Miller? Darko Milicic? Joel Anthony? Big Baby as the starting center until Perkins comes back? I don’t think the Celtics could have afforded to hold onto the MLE and wait for Erick Dampier to be waived by whoever ended up with his contract.

by LooseCannon on Nov 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions

Brad Miller #1, Damp #2

I’d take Brad Miller over either of the O’Neals, and if we had Damp instead of Shaq, I’d be disappointed but not heartbroken.

The question now is…should we waive Vonilla Wafer and sign Damp? Probably a moot point as Damp wants more than the min, but just askin…

Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.

by Tom Bellinger on Nov 10, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions

Holding out for Dampier was unrealistic

Considering he was waived in the middle of September. Shaq wouldn’t sign for the minimum if the MLE was still unused. So playing the waiting game for Dampier would have Erden as the only healthy center under contract with six weeks before the season opener.

I can’t see Miller as being better than Jermaine O’Neal except in the health department. And Miller’s not exactly durable either. Jermaine O’Neal is still a better rebounder and defender, even at the level he is currently playing at.

by LooseCannon on Nov 10, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions

I was going to write you a biting reply, but I had actually no idea how hurt Miller has been. Through 5 games, he’s got the same rebounding per 48 as Jermaine, with Jermaine getting a slightly higher rebound rate. Miller has been bad this season. Hadn’t been watching, I was assuming he was bringin the same ol scruffy mediocre but consistent play he’s been bringing for a couple of years now.

I agree that waiting on Dampier was not feasible. Dampier would be healthier than Shaq, but I like what Shaq is bringing to the table anyways in terms of attitude and leadership.

by Tom Bellinger on Nov 10, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions

I would of liked to see Miller wearing green...

his toughness would of been a nice addition.

But I think Jermaine is a more talented player overall so was the better signing.

by fordescort on Nov 10, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions

Well...

I think Erick Dampier has been overrated his entire career and cares about nothing more than his paycheck, so no I don’t think that would have been a good idea.

The market was scarce and at the time it definitely seemed like the best option, but I thought he’d be healthier than this. Out of the big men available I can’t argue that he wasn’t the best option, but at this point even Shelden Williams could have been of more use to us so far.

Not ready to bail on him yet though, it’s just frustrating that our biggest offseason acquisition has barely contributed at a time when we need production from that position.

by Josh88 on Nov 10, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions

I would have prefered....

Anybody else. JO has probably been one of my least favorite players of all time, and he’s done nothing to change my mind. It’s not because he isn’t talented, it’s because he doesn’t give a crap, nor have any idea how to keep himself in shape or healthy.

The fact is, JO was signed because Perk got hurt and Sheed retired. The real missed opportunity started with the Sheed signing, a signing that necessitated the JO signing this season. So, if we’re looking at a re-do, I’d say sign McDyess last season (instead of Sheed), and then sign Dorell Wright and Steve Blake this past summer.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Nov 10, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions

with hindsight at 20/20 its easy to make that call. I thought it was a good idea when they did, as there wasn’t much out there. Lets hope they get something figured out, because we’ll need the physicality in the paint to go far.

by wisco87 on Nov 10, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions

I think...

the Shaq and Jermaine signings were great moves by Danny…if they can stay healthy of course.

Lets keep in mind its still very early…Once Perk comes back Shaq and Jermaine will be coming off the bench and playing limited minutes which will keep stress off their bodies and hopefully keep them healthy.

We just need to hold on until Perk comes back and then both O’neals should hopefully be fine coming off the bench in limited minutes playing behind KG, Perk and Baby.

by fordescort on Nov 10, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions

Since when is a bruised knee a 'chronic' problem?

A bruised patella sucks. I’ve had ’em. They hurt like holy hell and can take quite a long time to heal. But they do heal.

It is not a chronic problem but rather just a bad luck injury and it will heal and Shaq will be fine.

This is tough to endure right now, but down the road things should get better. Shaq will eventually heal. JO will then get the rest his knee needs to finally be strong enough to play effectively – though that one may indeed be more chronic. Semih will get better as he gains more experience. And late in the year maybe Perk will get back.

It will be tough to play the really strong teams like Miami in the mean time. But we should still be able to handle the easier teams even without the O’Neals.

by mmmmm on Nov 10, 2010 5:00 PM EST reply actions

Shaq’s bruised knee is not his chronic problem. His broken down body is his chronic problem. Same with JO.

by Tom Bellinger on Nov 10, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions

Shaq's old, but not broken down

Shaq’s missed a lot of time in the last 8 seasons, most of it due to on-court injuries which were out of his control (think his broken thumb last season, or his shin bruise this year).

JO, on the other hand, has had a lot of non-contact injuries, injuries that usually come about because a guy isn’t in shape. From the strained hammy, to the bad back, to the mystery swelling in his knee, JO keeps getting injured with nobody around. All that points to his body being broken down.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Nov 10, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions

While its true that Shaq has missed a lot of games, the only way players are exempt from ticky-tack nagging but persistent injuries when they’re 35 plus is if they’re A) incredibly lucky, and B) Treat their body like a temple

Shaq has been pretty lucky, and been a dominating player through a solid chunk of the last decade, but his conditioning isn’t up to snuff here. I think he’s in great shape for his age, but not on the level that guys like Ray Allen, Steve Nash, or Grant Hill are.

Speaking of Grant Hill, I guess you can point at him as a guy who missed a lot of time, which by a kind of weird bad/good luck prolonged his career (but who knows how he would’ve fared if he would’ve stayed at the MVP level he was before, one of basketball’s great ‘what ifs’), but he missed like what, nearly 300 games over the course of 6 seasons (about 60%)?

Shaq had 1 lost season in Miami, and beyond that the last time he played in less than 50 games in a season was 1999. I don’t really think it is a fair comparison.

On top of that if you want to further compare him to a guy who missed a lot of time then rebounded (Grant Hill), Grant Hill beyond his impeccable conditioning is also 6’8 and 230. Shaq is 7’1 and 325, and that’s list weight, a number that Shaq has famously treated more like a weight loss goal than an actual mass. The stress of lugging that giant frame up and down the court, coupled with the stress of banging night in night out with the toughest guys in the league means Shaq is much more at risk on a daily basis, just because of his size, position, and style of play. Most centers under 30 can’t handle that without nagging injuries. A guy 2 years away from 40 doesn’t have a chance, because along with all the stress he’s piling on top of his body, he’s already got almost 20 years of NBA miles as a 7 foot 300+ lbs physical center.

None of that is going to change. Maybe calling Shaq’s body broken down isn’t fair, because for a 38 year old guy he is doing phenomenally. But, the fact is he is going to continue to miss a ton of games from the chronic injury known as being freakin huge, old, and playing center.

by Tom Bellinger on Nov 10, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions

It's not fair to call out Shaq

in the context of JO’s total disregard for conditioning or eating well—he’s somebody who CLEARLY hasn’t taken care of his body for the last 6 years. Shaq can point to the pounding and the extended playoff runs and be proud of his ability to stay healthy—whereas somebody like JO just don’t give a crap to keep himself in good condition, something that stresses his already stressed-out knees that much more.

Grant Hill is an excellent example of what all athletes should strive for. Joe Smith and Antonio McDyess as come to mind as guys who got everything out of their basketball potential by reshaping their bodies to compensate for what injuries took away.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Nov 11, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

Agree.

Nowhere in the linked article is either injury called chronic.

And when these guys feel a tweak or get a bruise, the team is rightly going to take a conservative approach and not rush them back into the lineup. The goal is not for these guys to play all 82 regular season games, it’s to play all the PLAYOFF games. If it comes as an upsetting surprise that these guys are going to need careful handling over the course of the regular season, your expectations were way out of whack.

This is who the C’s are for the next two years — a team full of aging superstars that can contend for titles if their health permits. It’s a fun team to watch, and it’s silly to second guess the construction of the roster every time someone misses time. Enjoy the ride.

by SAS129 on Nov 11, 2010 8:50 AM EST up reply actions

sounds like he's hedging.

Doc sounds tired of the questions
why show your card ? they have to face the Heat.

by Snowball on Nov 10, 2010 5:16 PM EST reply actions

I like that

by Papatrichs on Nov 10, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions

All I can say is, thankfully, we do have Davis and Erden.

And if Davis is pressed into playing the 5 spot, maybe Harangody will get some minutes at the 4. For that matter, Ainge may need to jettion Wafer and bring back Lasme. Having depth is a nice thing.

by no kidding on Nov 10, 2010 7:04 PM EST reply actions

+1

The C’s are very lucky to have Erden and Baby playing well.

Though the C’s will be in big trouble if they have to rely on Baby for long stretches at center.

I agree fully we need Lasme now…because if not now when !

by fordescort on Nov 10, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions

Well, if neither suits up, it does take away one of the advantages the C’s have over MIA (the other being Rondo). No point rushing them back— just make a game of it and remember if MIA wins tomorrow, the really dont win anything.

by Tenacious D on Nov 10, 2010 7:13 PM EST reply actions

exactly.

It is important to think long term here.

I’d rather be patient and get both O’Neals back to full health later on down the road rather than rush them back and risk aggravating their injuries (or causing new ones through compensation) just for the sake of 1 game.

by mmmmm on Nov 10, 2010 8:36 PM EST up reply actions

how sweet would it be if the game was won be someone unexpected?

like maybe harangody or erden or ugh wafer suddenly had a break out game against the heat? haha

by jeric on Nov 10, 2010 7:25 PM EST reply actions

no problem.

i have confidence that baby and semih can get the job done .

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Nov 10, 2010 8:40 PM EST reply actions

Only Silver lining is that the Center position is Miami's weakness

If neither O’Neal plays, I think we are in for a long night tomorrow.

by vinnie on Nov 10, 2010 9:29 PM EST reply actions

The key is ...

for the C’s to get and keep both O’neals as healthy as possible during the long regular season even if they have to sit out of vital games during the season.

We got both of them for the playoffs not the regular season anyway so we should not rush them back if they need time to heal during the season.

Since both O’neal’s seem to be injury prone and have chronic injuries, it could possibly open the door even more to the rumor of possibly Rasheed pulling a PG Brown later this year and being added to the roster prior to the playoffs to add more big man insurance and depth …which I would LOVE to see happen.

by fordescort on Nov 10, 2010 10:55 PM EST reply actions