Is Rondo the NBA's best point guard?
by bostonceltics on Nov 2, 2010 11:17 PM EDT
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PrintLet's compare Rondo's stats per game to those of other top point guards thus far:
- Rajon Rondo: 10.7 pts, 6.3 reb, 16.7 ast, 2.0 steals, 0.424 FG%
- Chris Paul: 20 pts, 6 reb, 9.3 ast, 1 steal, 0.500 FG%
- Derrick Rose: 27.7 pts, 5 reb, 8.7 ast, 1 steal, 0.449 FG%
- Deron Williams: 15.3 pts, 4.3 reb, 9 ast, 0.7 steals, 0.353 FG%
- Steve Nash: 17.3 pts, 3 reb, 6.7 ast, 1.3 steals, 0.500 FG%
- Russell Westbrook: 22.3 pts, 6.7 reb, 7.3 ast, 2.7 steals, 0.463 FG%
- John Wall: 21 pts, 3 reb, 9 ast, 1.5 steals, 0.417 FG%
- Chauncey Billups: 15.7 pts, 2.3 reb, 5.3 ast, 2.3 steals, 0.276 FG%
Among this list, Rondo is 2nd in rebounds, 1st in assists (by far), and 3rd in steals. He is clearly beaten in scoring by everyone else, but he is also not our primary scorer. He is a pass-first guard and can dish it to numerous veterans that are more than capable of scoring themselves. Every other point guard on this list is either the primary or the secondary scoring option on their respective teams. Rondo is the fourth for the Celtics. And despite that his FG% is 5th on this list, that is not a bad percentage to be shooting, and if his jump shot has improved. Rajon Rondo is also the only point guard listed averaging a double double.
In conclusion, Rondo's numbers thus far all point to his status as the NBA's best PG. That is all without me mentioning that 67 assists in the 1st 4 games is an NBA record, that 24 assists in a game is a career high (nearly a team history high too), and that he got the season's first triple double. And without me bringing up his All-Defensive Team spot and the fact that he led the league in steals last year. RONDO IS HANDS-DOWN THE BEST PG IN THE NBA! Here's to him keeping that status for the rest of the season, and well into the playoffs! Banner 18, here we come!
(This is just my opinion. Who do you think is the best PG in the game?)
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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good breakdown, bostonceltics
I look forward to seeing more of your posts.
by thirstyboots18 on Nov 4, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice post
a couple of things to think about:
1) You may want to normalize by post stats per 36 minutes played, rather than per game. Not that big a deal when comparing this set of players who all average about that anyway, but for others, something to remember.
2) Once normalized, you can derive a rough point-creation metric by assuming each assist is worth about 2.2 pts (actually more than that, but I’m ignoring ‘and 1’ free throw points off fouls). Thus you can rank the above guards by their ‘points created per game’ using their scoring plus 2.2 * assists. For example, Rondo’s number would be 47.68 pts created per game (using his averages as of today (thursday).
One of the best!
not yet the best! sooner he will be after he master his jump shot.
BANNER 18 in 2011
2nd IMO
I think at this point only CP3 is better. There are better scoring pg’s in the league than Rondo, Paul is a better scorer, and I think CP3 is the only guy that can match Rondo’s passing. Yes you can point to 17 assists versus 9, but just compare Rondo’s teammates to Paul’s. The Celtics are one of the top 3 teams in this league, the Hornets…are not.
#1 LBJ and A-Rod and Dez fan
Haters gonna hate.
I am NOT about to make a case for Rondo to be better than Magic or Stockton but...
They also had good teammates if not better. The main force behind the Celtics is a collection of veterans past their prime (although i think they should be able to win a title behind Rondo this year). Stockton had Karl Malone, the 2nd all-time scorer in NBA history. Magic was part of the Showtime Lakers, along with James Worthy and the 1st all-time scorer, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. What does it say about rondo if he was able to break their record to get 67 assists in the 1st 4 games? Stockton and Magic had better teams, yet Rondo has put up better assist numbers. If Rondo can do it, why can’t Chris Paul?
(Once again, this is not a case for Rondo to be better than Magic or Stockton)
~Aaron
by bostonceltics on Nov 3, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, four games into the season, one can make the claim that Rondo is the best point guard.
Celtics homers are hilarious.
by redzero on Nov 3, 2010 12:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
true, its only 4 games in
but rondo has been consistent these 4 games. for him to take the title, he just needs to stay consistent. all the others, on the other hand, have to work to catch up. rondo is setting the bar
~Aaron
by bostonceltics on Nov 3, 2010 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
Paul is statistically playing better than Rondo right now. Or are assists the only thing that matters?
How so?
Just going by the statistics, Rondo’s 7.4 assist/game edge over Paul would amount to an extra 14.8 points created per game in that category alone. Even if one is fickle about how assists are valued, at the very least Rondo’s 7.4 assist/game edge over Paul would amount to an extra 7.4 points created per game.
Either way, Rondo’s 9.3 point/game deficit in comparison to Paul would be more than compensated by his points created off of assists:
Rondo: 10.7pts (scoring) + 33.4pts (16.7 assists average x 2) = 44.1 total points created
Paul: 20.0pts (scoring) + 18.6pts (9.3 assists average x 2) = 38.6 total points created
Alternately if you’re more fickle about the value of assists (don’t count me amongst “this” group), and believe that the passer should only be credited 1 point per assist (due to the fact that two players must work together to tally an assist), then here’s another calculation:
Rondo: 10.7pts (scoring) + 16.7pts. (16.7 assists average x 1) = 27.4 total points created
Paul: 20.0pts (scoring) + 9.3pts (9.3 assists average x 1) =29.3 total points created
In the first calculation, Rondo’s point creation trumped Paul’s by almost a 6 pt. margin. In the second calculation, Paul’s production narrowly beat Rondo’s by a 1.9 pt. margin.
Remember as well, that Rondo’s rebounding totals are higher than Paul’s, and he has twice as many steals per game (2.0 vs. 1.0)
According to these two interpretations, Rondo’s creation on the court has been greater than Paul’s, or roughly similar (going strictly by points + assists only). When one takes into account Rondo’s superior rebounding and defense (particularly steals statistically), then one can honestly say that Rondo is playing like the BEST point guard in the NBA at the moment.
In addition, Paul’s Hornets play out West at a faster pace, with more possessions to spare. Rondo’s Celtics play out East at a slower pace, with less possessions to spare. Scoring and assist totals/averages will be slightly decreased due to that fact alone (in other words, imagine what Rondo would average in assists on the Warriors or Suns).
…and finally, this is before one even gets into the whole “what’s a point guard’s REAL duty?” discussion. Needless to say, for a point guard assists are VERY important…and on an actual championship-contending team like the Celtics (and very unlike the Hornets), a point guard’s primary goal is playmaking and distribution (a la Magic, Kidd, Nash). Rondo is following in that path.
Ashtray Bouquet
The Hornets have the 25th fastest pace (as opposed to the Celtics, who are 21st in pace) in the NBA this season, so let’s get this nonsense that they are (or were) a fast paced team out the way.
From an advanced stats perspective, Chris Paul has a higher TS%, higher eFG%, higher TRB%, lower TO%, a far higher offensive rating, higher PER, and higher Win Shares per 48 minutes. Basically, most advanced states favor Paul. Rondo is getting his assists
And this claim that Rondo “is doing what a point guard is supposed to do” is ludicrous, because Paul has averaged more assists per game every single season. Getting assists is nice, but the best player on the team shouldn’t be a liability scoring wise. The Celtics lost in the Finals partially because Rondo couldn’t make open jumpshots or free throws. Do you think Paul wouldn’t be able to get a ludicrous amount of assists while playing with 3 hall of famers on his team? Rondo doesn’t score a lot because he doesn’t have the skill to be the number option on offense.
I understand your point fully
But I feel like saying Rondo is a scoring liability is unfair.
Let me preface this by saying I agree that CP3 is the correct answer to the overarching question of best PG in the league. But I think Paul is actually one of only a few PGs on the list that could actually do what Rondo does for Boston. Actually, apart from Billups, Williams, and CP3 I would argue that every other PG on the list, when placed in Boston, would make the team worse than it is. And I think of CP3, Williams, and Billups. CP3 is the only one that might be able to make Boston better than it is at the moment.
Billups is a worse defender, and at least as capable a passer, and a more gifted shooter.
Williams is more of the same although not as good a passer.
CP3 is the only guy that’s close on defense, passing, and shooting (he’s obviously better at shooting not going to argue that).
But you put Rose, Wall, Nash, or any other PG you want to name on this team and I would argue that they’d win less. Rose’s inability to effectively pass would cripple the Captain and Ray. Nash’s inability to defend would bump him behind Nate or West as the starter. etc etc.
I appreciate that you are fighting the homerism on Rondo. But give the guy a little more credit at this point he’s earned it.
He knows not his own strength that hath not met adversity.
If you want to go by stats
It’s worth noting that Rondo scores or assists 48 points a game, while Paul’s at around 41.
Right now, CP has overall better stats, especially on offense
but one has to caveat that the Celtics have played a pretty tough first 5 games that did include a big let-down loss after the emotional victory over the Heat.
Right now, after just 4 wins, CP has got a ridiculous and unsustainable +38 difference between his offensive and defensive ratings (points per 100 possession). That, more than anything tells us that we are dealing with Small Sample Statistics (SSS) here.
In other words, yeah, its too soon to be crowning anybody.
“but one has to caveat that the Celtics have played a pretty tough first 5 games that did include a big let-down loss after the emotional victory over the Heat.”
And the Hornets haven’t?
First, somebody says that Paul’s stats are inflated because he plays on a fast paced team. Now, it’s because he’s faced easier competition?
Celtics fans.
I'm not saying that at all.
I’m pointing out that the Celtics have a loss.
In a loss your team scores less than the opponent. And thus someone – and often everyone on the team ends up with a negative +/-.
Paul has so far only played in wins thus all he’s done is add up 4 games of positive +/-.
Do you think the Hornets will not having any losses this year?
My only point is that Paul’s current huge statistical advantage in +/- is not sustainable.
Yes, the Hornet’s have played a tough schedule. And it doesn’t get easier real quick. They get the Heat tonight. And they get the Bucks (again) real soon as well.
Ditto with the Celtics. Let’s reconvene this debate after at least a significant chunk of the season has actually been played.
Stop looking at the stats...
Of course his stats are better Paul has no supporting cast around him…plus toe-to-toe number 9 would juke Chris to sleep along the baseline….most underrated guard…hell underrated player in NBA-Rajon Rondo!
by Ol' Green Boyz on Nov 3, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Rondo's only 50% from the ft line
Compared to CP3’s 89.5% (10th) – Rondo’s in an 8-way tie for 47th
by nba is the worst on Nov 3, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
IMO, when it come to the point guard, assists are the most important stat. Shows that the floor general is calling and executing effective plays. The other night, when he also had 0 turnovers was amazing. The whole team was on the same page that night! kudos to the Team! And that is what I think Rondo brings…drawing the team onto the same page execution and effort wise.
by thirstyboots18 on Nov 4, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
At this point at least, I'd agree
The most important stat in judging a point guard’s worth is assists per game. Right now Rondo is leading in that category by almost a 2 to 1 margin. That’s sick.
That alone tells me everything I need to know. He’s doing exactly what a point guard should be doing (passing), and he’s doing it far better (at almost twice the rate as his nearest competition) than any other point guard. He’s the best point guard in the NBA RIGHT NOW. His award for Eastern Conference Player of the week is no fluke.
If he keeps up his assists per game average, while slightly boosting his scoring, he’ll have a good shot of maintaining this status. Will he do so? Yes, I think he will. He’s got a serious chip on his shoulder this year. You watch it!
Ashtray Bouquet
still room for improvement..
I think Rondo’s a consistent jumpshot away from being a hall of fame PG… he also has to work on the TO’s… we’ll see if he can carry this team after two years when only him and Pierce remain..
Anyone who looks at those stats, with the big obvious tradeoff being points versus assists, the steals and rebounds somewhat lesser--
has to remember the importance of defense and that Rondo ranks alone at the top of that. Paul or Rose might beat him out in a fantasy league, but I think Rondo has reached the top for point guards in the NBA.
The fact is
Rondo could have 20+ pts each game if Ray, KG, Paul, Davis, Nate, Erden, Shaq, Jermaine and Quis would all fail to score or even play at level.
If you ask him to deliver, he will. If you ask him to make sure you get at least 2 points on each play, he’ll do that by driving the defense insane and end up with a lay-up basket. If you ask him to just do good D, he’ll do that. Anything you need from him in attack – he can make it happen. We’ve all seen Rondo vs Cavaliers game. Can’t say that CP3 is better than him just because he can shoot well.
Irresponsible I stand...
Everything works both ways guys, everyone is saying that if Rondo didn’t have the guys around him he would score 20+. This is true, but his assists would drop significantly. If CP3 played with Ray, KG, etc, his assists would rise significantly. Right now, CP3 is more talented, he’s a better shooter which allows him to consistently score 20 on any given night.
you said it works both ways
but then you went on to talk about CP3s scoring. If Rondo was on the Hornets he’d score 20 a game consistantly too….cause he’d have to. that’s what Rondo does. And I guess by ‘talented’ you mean just shooting. head to head….Rondo owns CP3.
What does Rondo actually do better then Chris Paul? Defense is a wash. Passing ability is a wash. I’d call everything a wash minus the shooting ability which is clearly an advantage to CP3. CP3 has averaged 10+ assists his career while playing with guys nowhere near the talent level of KG, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. Right now, it shouldn’t be a discussion. Rondo has played great for four games. If he can keep this up for forty games, then you can say Rondo is better than CP3. It can not be said now, CP3’s past needs to be taken into account.
He does alot of things better
In my opinion
he controls the game better
passes better
defends better
and this one you’ll love….Hits clutch shots better.
you my friend are out of your mind
i know i’m a laker fan but i’m from springfield.mass and watch every game the celts play. i was a somewhat of a fan when they sucked lol. with that disclaimer out the way…. Rondo is good i mean very good but he is not better than Chris Paul no way no how. if Chris paul was on the Cetics you might be 3peating right now. how does a man with no jumper have more clutchness than the primary threat who does? he does not pass better tho he is very good with angles whether passing or on layups he definiley doesn’t control the game better. i mean its easier when people consider you a non threat scoring. stopping new orleans means stopping paul stopping celts means stoppin ray then pierce then kg then big baby then cutting off rondo penetration. you are very disrespectful to Chris Paul with this and this whole discussion is disrespectful to him as well. Really if you dont think any point guard listed on this list could fil rondo’s place ypur buggin(cept Nash cuz his defense wow but then again Fisher is no defensive whiz eithier lol)
by Blackmamba81024 on Nov 3, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as I don't want to admit it, Jason Kidd should be in this conversation:
11.3 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 11.7 APG, 2.3 SPG, 41.2 3PT%
www.greentownsfinest.com
I still think Rondo is 3rd best.....
Until he can get a respectable jump shot and hit free throws. But there’s nothing wrong with having the 3rd best point guard in the league. Keep up the good work, Rondo.
I love Rondo like a man loves a man, but...
…his is playing with four hall of famers.
by Raef on Nov 3, 2010 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The way I look at it
Yes, Rondo is playing great. His assist totals are way up. But his point are slightly down.
But until Rondo can learn to shoot with consistency, and teams will game plan for this come playoff time, he can’t be the best PG.
by droopdog7 on Nov 3, 2010 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
um, his points are down, but point creation is way up
and points are not a measure of shooting.
Of the 8 players listed above...
RR is saved by the fact that Nash and Billups are now old…otherwise, I`d rank Rondo #8!
by Title 18 on Nov 3, 2010 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rondo's on an exponential growth curve
which, given how good he already is, is scary.
If Rondo was asked to score more, he would have more in-game shooting experience, and his shooting percentages would be higher AND improving. But he isn’t asked to do that. I don’t think we can really compare Paul and Rondo because they’re at different positions relative to their prime, and they play different roles at the point guard position.
I voted for Rose, but this is an unfair question. Rondo is the perfect fit for the C's.
The point was made by pundits from several media outlets (CSN, TNT) that Rondo is the perfect point guard for this team. Choosing “best” doesn’t provide the appropriate context.
If I was starting a team right now, I would take Derrick Rose as my PG because he does just about everything well. But Rose is NOT the best PG for the Celtics with the way their roster is constructed, Rondo is
This is pretty much how I prefer to look at it.
Ranking players between teams is tenuous at best.
Rondo/Nash
2 players on this list make their teammates better. They are pass first pg’s and are intelligent players. That’s Rondo and Nash. Both can make incredible passes off the dribble with either hand and they don’t make them look fancy which is one reason why they often go unnoticed. Both control tempo of the game and both are extensions of their coaches. I would probably say Nash is a bit better because he seems to be a better shooter now, but Rondo’s shooting will improve. Forget stats, even Rondo’s incredible assist rate. All the other point guards are scorers and don’t do much to make their teammates better. With Rondo and Nash, 5 players are playing. With the others it’s the pg and maybe one or two others may get to touch the ball
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
So let me get this straight, Celtics fans.
Rondo is more of a point guard than Chris Paul because he doesn’t score 20 points a game. This is ignoring the fact that Rondo has never averaged more assists than Paul for an entire season. Rondo averaging more assists over four games proves that he is a true pass first point guard, right?
Anybody that' ever seen him play for more than 5 minutes
Knows that he’s a true pass first point guard. Not sure you’re in that group of people.
Heres some stats
So far in 4 games you guys want to call Rondo the best PG.
Paul FT% .871
Rondo .571
And that would be my vote for meaningless stat of the day.
This whole discussion is silly.
Its 4-5 freakin’ games into the season. There is no meaningful statistical argument to be made either way (Paul v Rondo) because there is simply not enough data in a mere 4 or 5 games.
Who Cares!!
The last time I looked there were five players on the team.
Who cares who is the best PG:
1 It’s too subjective since the team each player has to play with
2.The conference each PG plays in affects the production.
3. How do you factor in the defensive side? Is it the points scored on the PG? Is it steals? Is it T.O.?
If a PG is the team leader then that’s good enough for me.
Rondo
If the man could shoot alright but he can’t ……. Give us more points plus the assists and steals, rebounds and points don’t have to be threes just shoot and make some two’s
I have one problem with Rondo.
Just one.
Free throws.
A premier PG is never afraid to go to the line. Premier PGs must shoot over 65% in general and over 85% in crunch time.
Rondo’s erratic production at the line affects his entire game and the flow of the offense.
Normally, we’re OK. But in the pressure of the 4th Q, especially in the playoffs, this is a problem.
I couldn’t care less about jump shots. It’s the free throws that hurt.
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