Injury-Depleted: Celtics Thinning Front-Court Leaves Semih Erden with Big Role
by Jay_King on Dec 10, 2010 12:01 PM EST
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PrintFourth-string centers often don't even exist.
The Denver Nuggets, for example, list three centers on their roster. One of those players is Chris "Birdman" Anderson, who is a classic center the same way I am an NBA-caliber point guard. In other words, not at all. The Toronto Raptors -- not that I consider them an actual NBA team -- list only two centers. One of them is Andrea Bargnani, who (besides his height) is the antithesis of your average center. Reggie Evans often mans the middle for the Raps, so I will count him as a center, too, but they certainly don't have a fourth-stringer. Really, they don't even have a third-stringer.
You probably know why I'm discussing fourth-string centers. Unlike most teams in the NBA, the Celtics need one. Badly. Their first three centers are all destined to spend a lot of games in street clothes.
Semih Erden started last night, as the bruised and battered trio of Kendrick Perkins, Jermaine O'Neal, and Shaquille O'Neal all nursed injuries. While Erden didn't embarrass himself by any means, he also proved (once again) that he isn't a championship-level big man.
If you trust PER, Erden (8.1 PER) is the third-worst Celtic. The two players below him, Avery Bradley and Von Wafer, are end-of-the-bench guys who rarely enter games. For a reference point, Mikki Moore's PER while he was in Boston was 9.3. Trust me, it's never a good thing to wade below the Mikki Moore line.
There is also another stat which tells Erden's tale in a way the naked eye cannot: for the season, on an 18-4 team, Erden has registered a -67 in the plus/minus column. His overall plus/minus is the Celtics' worst, and if you gauge Erden's per-minute plus/minus, his -.284 is worse than only Luke Harangody's. The players he keeps statistical company with are all garbage-time players, yet Erden has been thrust into a larger role. For the Celtics, that is not good.
It's weird that advanced statistics say Erden is somewhere between poor and pitiful, because he doesn't really look all that bad. Off the top of your head, name one thing he's terrible at. It's tough, right? A simple glance doesn't reveal Erden's shortcomings. He normally seems in good position, at least offensively, and his skills -- while raw -- seem serviceable. He's a lot tougher than, say, Patrick O'Bryant, and his hands are certainly nowhere near Kwame Brown territory. So why does his presence on the floor make the Celtics worse?
Look at last night, for example. Erden didn't seem to do much wrong. He made both shots he attempted, got to the free throw line six times, and posted only one turnover in 17 minutes of play. He even added a nice block and a few rebounds. Yet he posted a -6, the second-lowest number of any Celtic. Why?
I re-watched last night's game, and Erden's flaws become more evident when you focus on them. He isn't clueless defensively, but he's often a step slow on rotations. He isn't helpless offensively, but there's still a certain weakness to his game. He doesn't exactly fit the "big, soft European" stereotype, but he still struggles when receiving the ball in the paint. There was one play, which actually resulted in two Erden free throws, when he caught the ball with almost nobody on him. Rather than powering up for a dunk, or at least an easy layup, Erden softly rose for a left-handed baby hook shot. Because of the weakness of the move, Jrue Holiday -- all of 180 pounds -- was able to force an Erden miss. Erden received two fouls shots for his efforts, but his weak shot attempt revealed one of his flaws.
Another flaw of Erden's raw game is a tendency to foul. A lot. Erden will keep his hands straight in the air, like any coach will tell players to do. But he initiates contact with his body, often because he's a step slow in the defensive schemes. Erden fouls at the obscene rate of 9.8 times per 48 minutes (by my own calculation), sending opponents to the line and helping to put teams in the bonus.
The foul rate wouldn't be so bad, if Erden could only rebound. So far, he hasn't. If true Celtics fans had to name one big man who refused to rebound, it would probably be Mark Blount. Blount never met a rebound he liked. But Blount, in all but a year and a half of his Boston career, actually had a higher rebound percentage than Erden's current numbers. Last year, we all droned on and on about Rasheed Wallace's laziness. But Sheed's defensive rebound percentage (19.0%) was better than Erden's (15.5%), and Sheed's total rebound percentage (11.2%) was very similar to the Tall Turk's (11.5%).
Yesterday was Erden's first NBA start, but it almost certainly won't be his last this season. Shaq's injuries have become nagging, and Jermaine O'Neal's injuries are worse. Shaq wanted to get a shot yesterday to play through the pain, but he is cutting back on anti-inflammatory medicine; he has used too much of it already this season. And Jermaine? Well, who knows when he'll be back, and who knows how much production he'll be good for when he does return. His knee could prove to be a problem all season.
With those two guys as fragile as paper mache, Erden's name will be called for big minutes periodically throughout the season. If he doesn't improve, and quickly, that spells bad news.
There is hope, at least. None of Erden's shortcomings are incurable. He's an agile big man with a high basketball IQ, and as such I suspect he will improve drastically from his tepid start -- if not this season, than in the future. He's a more than capable passer, moves his feet well laterally, and seems to have a greater grasp of Boston's system than most rookies ever do. Additionally, I'm sure some of his struggles are due to a shoulder injury (which Doc Rivers admits will require surgery at some point).
But for now, relying on Erden could cause trouble. As much hope as I have for his future, the Tall Turk isn't ready yet.
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Don't forget the language barrier
Certainly it’s navigable, but that has to slow down his learning of the scheme as well.
by egotistical ma on Dec 10, 2010 12:07 PM EST reply actions
Yep. A rookie with a language barrier in need of shoulder surgery.
He’s clearly got some skills and toughness, has won over his coach and teammates, and is getting better despite it all. (E.g., fouling less.)
Completely Agree
I completely agree with “egoticstial ma”. Personally I thought he played pretty well.
Also, +/- is a stat that can be terrible for someone who only plays a few mins per game. He had a neg last nite. I’ll bet several other players had a neg last nite. It was a one pt game. Iwonder if he’d played significant mins against Denver or some of the other blowouts what is +/- would be in those games.
He needs to get stronger, he needs to learn the “system” and he needs to get healthy. But I’m very impressed with him. He has good hands, decent post moves. plays tall, keeping his hands up and can even make free throws. He’s far ahead of Perk as a rookie or 2nd or 3rd year guy. I think he has more to work with. Not saying he’ll be better than Perk, just that the Potential is there. That word Potential. In a year of 2 I see him being a solid backup and possibly more.
+1
Sorry Jay, but I think it’s too soon to dedicate an article on how Erden contributes negatively to the team. A bit cowardly, as well, viewing him as some kind of poison to the team.
And I, for one, disagree completely. We all know how Doc has allergies just thinking about putting a rookie on the floor. Let alone a foreigner with a language barrier and a shoulder that needs surgery. All rookies develop extremely slowly with Doc, and nobody becomes a sensation overnight by playing a few minutes per game. I’m glad he’s having the opportunity to play more, despite the difficulties. That means that when the time comes that we no longer have Shaq or Jermaine wearing green, he’ll be a real contributor.
And let’s not forget that Shaq and the rest of the team are embracing him. I remember watching a video recorded by Paul Pierce with his cell, and the first thing PP did was give a shout out to Erden during lunch. They wouldn’t do that if they didn’t think he didn’t have the potential or was a hard working player.
I believe in Semih. And I’m pretty sure that once he has his shoulder repaired, becomes more fluent in English, and learn all the plays (which even veterans have a hard time when they come to the team), he will be cheered on effusively by the Celtics’ fans.
Viewing Erden as some kind of poison?
No, no, no. You’ve got me all wrong. All I’m doing is cautioning that Erden’s not really ready to play. At least, he’s not ready to play at a championship level. At this point in his career, Erden’s not a very good player. Do I have all the confidence in the world he will turn into one? Yes. But not yet.
Ready or not, Erden has to play right now, because he's needed.
Is he playing like a championship level center? Heck no; but he’s providing enough to fill the position against most of the backup centers in this league. That’s plenty enough at this point.
In that case I agree with you. But if he doesn’t play now, he will never get the experience he needs. Specially when Perk and JO come back. Besides, the other rookies aren’t at championship level either. They all need time on the court to develop. These injuries could come as a plus right now. Come Playoff time, they won’t have jitters from hardly stepping on the court. Even if it’s just to give some minutes of rest to the veterans.
by braz on Dec 10, 2010 9:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Too Soon
I think it is too soon to judge him. I think he will be a serviceable big man once he heals up (I am sure with that shoulder injury he is a bit more timid than usual) and gets some experience under his belt (learning the language better will help too). Remember how long it took Perk to get to where he is now.
Ahh...
should have included that, too. We live and we learn, and we ultimately realize how to write more thoroughly.
Erden just needs time to develop into a decent backup center. No big surprise. (And I'm glad you made your saving comment here.)
To complain that the fourth string center isn’t an adequate starting center for a contending team is pretty silly.
And let’s realize the inadequacies of the PER analysis. If you’re surrounded by excellent players on a cohesive squad, then you’re going to benefit from their play. If instead, as with Erden, you’re generally playing with an inconsistent, incomplete and non-coordinated second unit, then you’re, going to take your lumps. The guys on the second unit that have the better PER numbers are the ones that are also getting more minutes with the starters. One might argue, in a circular fashion, it’s because they’re the better players. But it can often be because of a particular need of the overall team. For instance Nate Robinson really isn’t a starting point guard. But he’s been getting some minutes with the starters because of injuries.
We’re darn lucky to have Erden.
it is suprising to see these numbers
becauae watching him seems very serviceable. certainly not a stud, but I thought his defense last night was actually pretty darn good…
interesting.
I’m still hopeful that he will be the fabricio oberto type some day. solid defensive rebounder who moves to the open space on offense, finish, and make free throws.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
For a fourth string center...we`re lucky to have him!
We could do much worse than Semih.
No offense
but trying to justify adding another center based on the PER and the +/- if Semih is over-analyzation. He is decent, and will get better. Certainly better at the 5 than Mikki Moore, and I don’t care what the PER says, I bet 90 % of C fans would agree with me on that. I see this as an opportunity to quicken SE’s learning curve, until we get healthier with the other guys. Call me old school, but I reject these statistical formulas and rely on my observation of game performance. Semih has been a very pleasant surprise, and I think has the makings of a good back up center in a couple of years, ala Gortat in my opinion. And don’t forget that Semih is battling a serious shoulder injury but playing through it. Kudos to the young Turk.
+1
the kid’s a rookie and has been somewhat expected to anchor the D for the 2nd unit with Big Baby in. Not exactly the best situation for a rookie’s stats.
Bleed Green. What does it mean?
by CelticsHooRah on Dec 10, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
What Semih does is amazing if you really think about it! The kid left his country, friends, family. Came to a country that he does not know the language and gets critic by KG ever practice in KG’s half english half curse language.
well hellooo!!
you’re forgetting that Semih came from a different league he is trying to get use to the language the new atmosphere and he’s trying to fit in the NBA’s best teamm!!! ıt’s not an easy thing at allI.Im a Turkish fan i watched him live here he was amazing but when i watch him playing on NBA it’s not the same he’s still shy,it’s true.But it’s not an execuse to judge Semih.We need to support him rather than talking negatively.He still needs time he’ll be better strongerrrrr.Just wait and see!!!!!
I do agree with Jay
on Semih’s weak rebounding numbers, but feel that is as much a product of his focus on boxling out, and deferring to others to scoop up loose rebounds (often Baby) than it is to being a poor rebounder. While he does not have the defensive rotations down, and is slow at times, bear in mind it is a very complicated defense the Celts play. I actually am impressed by how much of a team defender he is, given his unfamiliarity with the system. He constantly works on rotating.
His proclivity to fouling reminds me of Perk in his first few years. With time in the league comes respect from the refs, and also smarts from the player. I would not be too critical of him on this.
I think worshipping ‘advanced statistics’ is a disease that unfortunately has gripped the sports world. I blame this on science worship in society at large, and fantasy sports in particular.
Erden is a talented big man who has been forced prematurely into a much larger role than he was ready for, while injured to boot, and has handled himself surprisingly well. We are lucky to have him. He’ll get better, and the experience he is getting this year is not only helping us now, but will make him a better player in the future.
If it was all about statistics, you know, we really wouldn’t need to play the games at all, would we? It could all be virtual … well, and probably it soon will be.
Statistics Tell the Truth
Our eyes, by contrast, deceive us.
People who value science, I assure, don’t “worship” it — we trust it’s evidence-based conclusions, because they have proven to be far more reliable, over time, than any other source of knowledge.
by G$ on Dec 10, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
total BS
i’d agree if PER were real science, but it’s not. it’s bogus.
All advanced stats carry with them the creation of outliers because it heavily penalizes or heavily rewards certain things. UZR in baseball heavily rewards corner infielders who play in fields with large foul territories, because you get a bigger UZR bump from making an out on a ball that’s out of play than from making an out on a ball that’s in play.
PER is just a way of comparing players on a normalized valuation. Having a “good” PER doesn’t mean you’re a good player, it means you have a good PER. Just like getting a high score on an SAT doesn’t mean you’re going to perform well in college, it means you’re good at the SAT. A stat in sports is just a way of comparing.
He knows not his own strength that hath not met adversity.
the problem with only relying on stats
is that your analysis throws out intangibles like work ethic, passion, desire to win. All of these make a difference in looking at individual players.
Semi, might not have the stats but its obvious the kid can play and will get much much better.
Also stats and science are not the same thing, its not like sport stat people are taking a theory, testing the theory in a controlled environment and then taking these conclusions and re-testing v. the NBA.
Advanced stats more so than fantasy stats try to describe what is actually happening as opposed to what we think is happening as prisoners of the moment. The way most stats are collected in sports you can’t compare stats between players because they aren’t measuring the same thing. Advanced stats in general try to normalize the measurement so that you can meaningfully compare.
Advanced stats though are really only a good way to compare players playing in comparable situations. Comparing the advanced stats of a guy that only gets garbage time minutes is not the same as comparing advanced stats with a guy playing heavily contested minutes. But comparing advanced stats of those players is still better than comparing per game averages. So I don’t agree with your complete mistrust of advanced stats. But at the same time they are useful as a way of preventing bias against individual players.
What the advanced stats suggest to me, at least in terms of his rebound rate, is not that Semih is a bad center. But instead that players that had a poor reputation were actually better than most people’s perception. But because people don’t have bias against Semih they don’t have the same bias of perception.
He knows not his own strength that hath not met adversity.
According to PER ...
Tyrus Thomas is better than Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Durant and EVERYONE on the Celtics.
Nuff said.
According to PER Tyrus Thomas has a better PER than Tim Duncan. I didn’t say it was an end all be all or only way of comparing. With something as complex as sports relying solely on one stat to compare and evaluate would be insipid. No one stat says everything.
Also, comparing across positions usually leads to lots of difficulty. When you are comparing similar roles it can make sense. But looking at a PG’s numbers compared to a forward or big becomes purposeless quickly.
He knows not his own strength that hath not met adversity.
HIs foul rate will drop
I haven’t spent too much time analyzing Semih’s game, but if last night is representative then his fouls are more a reflection of a lack of respect from the refs than from poor or overly aggressive play.
He was getting whistled for fighting-for-position-type calls which looked to me like they really could have gone either way. It didn’t look like Doc was blaming him for these fouls either—-his anger was focused more on the refs than Semih.
It’s a fair point that Semih has a ways to go, but considering he’s a couple dozen games into his NBA career I couldn’t be happier with how he’s performing.
Rookie big man always have that problem.
Look at Derrick Favors right now, struggling through the same thing.
One of the things that infuriates me as much as any other with NBA officiating, the bias is so ridiculously clear. Rookie big men get called for those “touch” fouls when fighting for position all day long.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
considering
Semih was not really brought here to be a productive player but to be an understudy this year, he’s produced better than expected. It’s not reasonable to be expecting him to produce at the level of a quality backup center in his career. He’s a rookie — the 60th pick in the draft. The fact he actually appears to have some value and isn’t a complete waste on the court is a something to get excited about.
Is he who we want on the court? no. we want perk, shaq or JO in the middle. in lieu of those 3, Semih is filling in better than can be expected. I would not be surprised that if he’s forced into a moderate amount of playing time this year, he could possibly progress to the point of being a decent 3rd string center by playoff time—>someone capable of holding down the defensive boards against the other teams subs and score a bucket or two on offense. hopefully in 2 years when the senior citizen brigade is ready to retire, Semih will have progressed to the point of being the C’s version of Gortat behind Perk.
One positive in
all these to injuries to Perk, JO and Shaq early on this season is that Erden has gotten more minutes then he would of if all or even some of the players above were not injured and all this on the job training and will make him a better player come playoff time, especially if we need him in the scenario any of our bigs can not go for some reason.
Also another blessing in disguise as though the players above are out hurt they are resting by missing these games and will (if they return healthy of course ) be alot fresher come playoff time since they have not played to many regular season games.
Agreed.
Certainly is a silver lining that Erden is being thrust into this role, long as he is mentally tough enough (seems to be he is) to handle the struggles and learn from it, this should go a long way to accelerating his development. Overall, it could serve to help the team tremendously down the road, if he is able to develop more rapidly over this season and the next, and become a viable option in future years.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
This is the real point
Semih is below average, and the optimism I’m hearing by comparing him to other rookies is probably not appropriate because he’s 5 years older than the rest of his rookie class.
That said, building the guy up by putting him in with our core 4 right now while Perk and the O’neils heal is the perfect recipe for Semih to become all that he can be. If Semih has it in him to be a solid backup at center, they’re going to bring it out. If it works, we just might find ourselves with solid bigs going five deep in the spring. Developing Semih like this right now could help tremendously down the road.
by sofutomygaha on Dec 10, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Semih will be fine in time
Sure, he misses a few rotations here or there, sometimes makes a bad foul, or mishandles a rebound attempt, but on the whole he’s been a pleasant surprise, hell he’s the 60th pick and he has high BBIQ, good defensive instincts, great passing touch, a mean streak, and the ability to set good picks. Don’t forget about his good hands around the rim, that he can finish with either hand, and that he appears to have a nice 15 foot jumper and good touch from the line. His post game is even decent, and he can make jump hooks over either shoulder. What can’t he do?
Right now, Semih has 3 things working against him: his shoulder is HURT, he’s a rookie, and the officials don’t respect him (as shown last night when he and Hawes went up for a rebound together and the refs gave Semih an over-the-back loose ball foul when in fact he hadn’t even touched him over the back). By next season, he’ll be a rotation player, but like Baby in his rookie year he’ll be able to provide a spark here or there this season when called upon.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Dec 10, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions
+1
Semih’s good for the team locker room. You can see guys making him one of their own … He’s also one of the few options at Center right now, lol. In a way, it’s good that it’s making us play more desparate each game. Guys just keep stepping up when players go down.
+5 for picture selection
a picture of semih being guarded by rolle as you mention he will have a larger role is very creative
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"
by remembering9ergods on Dec 10, 2010 1:33 PM EST reply actions
Erdan and the 76er game
Jay,
A very interesting read, but I agree with most that it is very unfair to judge Erden by such statistical formulas at this point in his NBA career. To compare him to M. Moore or Blount, guys who were veterans of this league even when they played for us, is totally off the range.
BTW, at least 2 of Erden’s fouls last night were totally bogus!! He got called because he is an unknown and unrespected rookie. He will NOT get those calls in 2-3 years, and perhaps not even next year!!
Smitty77
I would disagree...
that I judge Erden unfairly. The stats help paint a picture of his present, which is bleaker than we would like from someone who has received such a growing role. If the Celtics are forced to rely on Erden, he will likely continue to have some growing pains.
Am I high on his future? Yes, I mentioned that too. None of his faults are incurable, and I suspect he will continue to grow as a player this year and in the coming campaigns. But just because Erden has a high ceiling doesn’t mean his presence helps now. He’s not the worst option in the middle, but he’s certainly not the best.
I did not read in any way that you felt like Semih was a lost cause or waste of time.
Further I didn’t read that you disliked Semih.
A lot of folks read that you disliked Semih because you compared his numbers to players that most folks on the blog have disliked, or have born a heavy burden of dislike from fans in general. What your post told me is that the optimism for Semih among the fans is tied to his youth and to the fact that the Celtics are winning. Because his numbers in general are similar to the numbers of players that were heavily blamed during times when the Celtics were winning less, or less convincingly.
And I think everyone agrees that when his shoulder is repaired he will markedly improve. But we won’t know till next year and all kinds of things can happen to make us less optimistic as fans and therefore less optimistic about Semih’s future.
He knows not his own strength that hath not met adversity.
As much hope as I have for his future, the Tall Turk isn't ready yet.
Tells you all you need to know, true statement.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Anyone have an update on Jermaine O'Neal???
What’s going on with that knee? He’s a really big loss.
In terms of Semih, I like what I’ve seen for the most part. The few authoritative dunks and blocks he’s had indicate that he can play with some attitude, and won’t back down to the NBA competition. He also seems to be positive and well liked by the rest of the squad. That’s about all I could ask from someone that we thought would be buried all year (at least) on the bench or in street clothes.
Call up
I’d be curious to see Tiny Gallon, not that he’s the answer, but he may be the next Big Baby. He’s doing well in Portland, athletic, hardworker.
side note
I was really sad to see about Magnum Rolle. It looks like Gallon is injured now too. If he’s healthy, he seems to be as worthy of a call-up as just about anyone in D-league.
Based on what Harangody did in summer league, though, he’s still got to be your next in line for minutes if Erden sucks.
by sofutomygaha on Dec 10, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Nice Article, BUT.....
The high point was easily the caption.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
Semih Erden - starting center
Does anyone know the last time a rookie was thrust into a starting role with the Celtics, and more than that, as a starting center?
Apart from that, considering that his starting role was given him by Doc Rivers, who uses his rookies very sparingly to begin with, [ even though the choices were limited, preferring to have B.B. Davis come off the bench ] it shows that Erden has progressed a lot more quickly than he was expected to when he first arrived.
Kudos to him for his continuing hard work during his extremely difficult learning curve – language barrier, complex defense and offense to learn, etc.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Centers
tend to not fully develop their game until they hit their late 20s. I.e. Shaq (Lakers), Perish (this one should be obvious), Olajuwon (to be fair, Michael Jordan wasn’t playing those two years, but still props to Olajuwon). Howard’s recently picked up his game and has actually started playing REAL defense lol, so I’ll throw a few chips his way as well. At least that’s how I see it…
If nothing is worth dying for, then nothing is worth living for.
~Chuck Coleson
Well....
Semih is producing a whole lot more than the perpetually “injured” in a non contract year Jermaine O’Neal.
He’s already played in more games than O’Neal probably will this whole season.
Title 18 has it exactly right.
give it some time.
He’s still adjusting to the speed of the NBA like when Yao was on his rookie year. The good thing is he knows where and when to rotate on defense. He’s still slow but he’ll eventually learn to adapt to a much faster game.
I also agree that even though his rebounding numbers are low, he boxes opponents out all the time, making others grab the rebound instead. Now it does not give him decent rebounding numbers, but when you think about it, he lessens opponents offensive rebounds. Something that helps BIG TIME.
I agree too that he needs to finish strong inside the basket after a catch. But maybe he’s concerned about his injury hence he does not explode to the basket. I remember seeing him in the last FIBA worlds.
One thing that others probably did not notice yet, maybe even the Celtics team as a whole is that Semih also has a decent post up game. Remember when he posts up during the FIBA Worlds? He has a quick spin to the basket and a back to the basket game. Will it work out in the NBA? I don’t know, but if he can develop that too he can be the all around center that is really hard to find.
He already is working fine in the C’s system with the language barrier and all. Give it some time and he’ll perfectly blend in. Hope Danny holds on on him.
Agree with all the positive posts
The one thing I’m a bit disappointed in is his rebounding.
It’s true that he never gets a break from the refs. That was true in the FIBA games too.
Just wait until the All-Star break in the post-lockout year, February 2013. Then judge.
He’s a very rootable player, IMHO. He’s filled a big hole much better than the average rookie big. Compared with Mozgov, Asik, Pekovic, etc., he’s doing just fine under the circumstances.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Somehow I sense Doc doesn't care how many rebounds Erden gets, only that his man is blocked out.
Davis may be getting an extra rebound or two every game because Semih is working so hard at boxing out the opposing center.
Erden ...
has kinda of a thin weak upper body and is being out muscled by bigger stronger centers on the boards.
If he can add some more upper body muscle it should I assume help his rebounding game alot.
I did not set my expectation too high
so I am happy with what erdens been providing. This kid was picked at R2P60 and he is already giving us 10+ mins per game. Not spetacular performance and maybe even terrible, but better than what people usually would expect from a 4th center. On the other hand, Mr. J Oneal, who got paid MLE and was supposed to be our first big men off bench and starting center before perk returns, has been a big disappointment. I seriously doubt that knee injury will ever leave him in the remaining season or even playoffs, and while hes rehabbing, why wouldnt he be part of the team and attend games like perk and delonte did?
by friedgreentomatoes on Dec 10, 2010 5:22 PM EST reply actions
i Love semih
i also love when kg and baby are on the floor togrtheer
by Perkinsschool4blind1 on Dec 10, 2010 6:30 PM EST reply actions
honestly...
just good to see a rookie getting some PT. even though you sometimes cringe when he gets the ball on the block, there’s no way hes gonna develop unless it happens.. wouldn’t mind seeing bradley get some mins, too, but in doc we trust..
Let's not forget, the guy is a rookie.
A rookie in a team who doesn’t get much PT because of the abundance of veterans in the team. Evin without an injury, his mistakes is even still excusable, because he has so much things to improve on as a first year player.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
Semih wasn't even expected to contribute this year...
He was put in a position where he was forced to play meaningful minutes due to injuries to our other centers. I’d be concerned if he was putting up the same stats in the D-League. Besides, just look at Darko Millicic with the wolves. He’s actually just “getting it” just now after so many years of playing in the league, being a #2 over-all pick at that. Semih will be fine.
Rebounding stats are not good example
With injured shoulder you just CANT rebound well… And there were lots of rebounding tips from Semih to another Celtics. I feel fine with him. 8 points last game is good even for Shaq.
Ugly_Joe is the most right of all of you!
I have seen Semi , most of the time, going up for a rebound with one hand, and attempting to tap the ball to a teammate. I have to assume the injured shoulder is at least part of the reason to go with the tap attempt. And of course he doesn’t get a rebound credit for a unsucessful tap attempt (and maybe ???? not for a successful?).
We’ve got a first round pick and a second round pick on the roster from this year’s draft. Has Semi been more valuable then those two? More valuable then JO? More valuable then Von Wafer?
Does any low draft pick rookie ever get a break on foul calls in the NBA?
I urinate on his PER and any conclusions drawn from it!
=/- analysis
does not provide any real insight on a player’s worth. Semih had a +34 last night, which was +11 higher than the next highest Celtic, MQ Daniels. I don’t think Semih had that great a game last night, especially defending N Mohammed. But from the +/-, you’d swear he was an all star. Jay points out his aggregate +/- negative of -67 (which I would imagine based on last night’s game alone, is no longer an argument) for his lack of value to the Celtics. Those fans who depend on such stats to measure the worth of a player are as often to be misled as informed. I am not saying they don’t have a place for discussion, but they need to be put in perspective, not on a pedestal.
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