Comparing Rajon Rondo to, err, Bill Russell?
by Jay_King on Dec 14, 2010 12:29 PM EST
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PrintOne comparison I didn't think I'd hear this year? Rajon Rondo to Bill Russell. But it's the comparison Russell's former teammate, Satch Sanders, offered in today's Boston Herald.
"People have a habit of talking about what they consider the negatives," he said. "In Russ’ case, the negative was that they expected pivotmen to play a particular way. They have to be able to do this — stay in the pivot, stay in close, guard people a certain way.
"They didn’t have the scope or the imagination to understand that here was a guy who could certainly do those things, but could do so much more. It’s almost as if these people had never seen him play in college — the way he had decimated opponents for two or three straight years. He had controlled entire games."
I understand why the comparison was made. Rondo does things differently from the average point guard. Russell did things differently from the average center. They have both overcome some offensive limitations to become terrific NBA players. But, to me at least, that's where the comparison ends.
Russell was doubted out of college, when he was already ready to lead Boston to championships. Rondo was doubted early in his career, when he was a weak link to a championship team. There's a huge difference there. What Russell demonstrated in college was that he had the ability to raise teammates' level of play. What Rondo demonstrated in college was that, well, Kentucky basketball can't always be great.
From the second Russell entered the NBA, he was the piece that brought the Celtics to the next level. His shot-blocking, rebounding, and unrivaled winning spirit immediately lifted Boston from semi-contender to instant-dynasty. Not only that, he changed the entire future of basketball.
Before Russell, centers were almost always lead-footed, unathletic, offensive-minded players. Then Russell came along, and grace and mobility became part of a center's resume. After Russell, it was no longer enough to be 6'10" with the ability to finish layups in "The George Mikan Drill." After Russell, centers needed to affect games on both ends, and it helped if they could also run like guards and jump like small forwards.
Rondo's great, but I seriously doubt he'll ever change the game. That's not entirely his fault, of course. Players rarely ever cause evolution. The last evolution in the NBA (unless I'm missing one) happened because of Michael Jordan. After Jordan's greatness swept the NBA, scouts looked everywhere for the next MJ. Players became more athletic, and often more one-on-one oriented, and it was because the NBA was searching for His Airness, Jr.
As great as Rondo has become, I seriously doubt he changes the way scouts search for talent. Not like Russell and Jordan did. Why not? We've seen payers like Rondo before. There have been lightning-fast point guards with incredible vision and no jump-shot before. Just look at a young Jason Kidd. Rondo's game is unorthodox, but it's difficult to think of one thing he does that's never been done before.
As for not giving Rondo enough credit for his championship, he doesn't deserve credit for leading his team to the title. When the Celtics won their ring, Rondo didn't lead the way. He was actually one of the weaker links. He had his moments, of course (16 assists in Game Two of the Finals, and 21 points, 8 assists, 7 rebounds, and 6 steals in Game Six), but Rondo was still the player opponents wanted with the ball. There were actually times Doc Rivers sat Rondo in fourth quarters, in favor of Eddie House. The Lakers put together a game-plan that year to force Rondo to beat them. They respected him less than any of his teammates, and at the time it was fair. He wasn't the Celtics' best player, or even close.
Now, Rondo is in the "NBA's best point guard" conversation for the first time. And it's fair that it's taken this long for Rondo's name to be mentioned in that talk -- it's the first year he's actually deserved the honor. Last season, he was clearly a rung or two below Chris Paul and Deron Williams. He was capable of playing as well as any other PG in the league on any given night, but Rondo didn't bring it every game. Just look at his game log. There were nights when Rondo looked like Jason Kidd (22 points, 13 assists, 10 rebounds against Toronto), and nights he looked like Milt Palacio (4 points, 6 assists, 2-10 shooting against Chicago). Rondo was great, yes, and probably Boston's MVP. But he could also be maddeningly inconsistent. At least until the playoffs, when he began to realize, "Hey, I'm good enough to do this every time I step on the floor."
This year, that inconsistency is entirely gone, and Rondo makes his impact known every single night. Better yet, he does it on both ends of the court. He is widely considered a super-duper-star, and some consider him the league's best point guard. He is receiving credit where credit is due, even if his jumper still doesn't scare anyone.
My point is this: Unlike Russell, who was doubted when he was already equipped to lead teams to championships, Rondo was doubted when his game had serious flaws. But it doesn't really matter whether Satch Sanders' comparison was perfect. Rondo now demands our praise every night, and, at this point, anyone who doubts Rondo's greatness must be A) blind, B) stupid, or C) not paying any attention whatsoever.
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Re: "it's difficult to think of one thing he does that's never been done before"
Got one for ya. Vs. Philly, RR did one thing that neither he nor anyone else has done before (so far as I know). I’m talking about that behind-the-neck running/jumping-in-traffic pass to Ray standing behind the right-side 3-pt line, for the first basket of the game. Of course, it’s not something “he does” regularly or a signature move or anything…. but just for the pure fun of it, I don’t think there’s another human in the league that would even attempt that pass, or make it if attempted.
Yeah...
Certain plays he makes are unlikely to be replicated. But there’s no part of his overall game that hasn’t been seen before. Not like Russell, who completely broke the mold for centers.
It's a lot easier to "break the mold"
When the league’s still as young as the nba was at the time. Put Rondo in that era, would he have broke the mold for point guards?
Yeah, absolutely right
…it was Denver. Philly was the day after.
That Philly game has been on my mind as a watershed night for this team… the way they all jumped to celebrate the win like it was a playoff game or something…. that was the first time I’d seen that this season…. and it brought home the incredible difference between this team and last season’s, back when Sheed was sucking the life out of them…
I was able to check because I taped the NBA-TV segment they did of the top 5 plays that week, and that RR pass to Ray was #1. The piece was pretty funny, cuz they were wondering how come Rondo just calmly walks away after making the pass, why doesn’t he position himself for the rebound? And they figured Rondo walked away saying “Hey, I’m passing it to Ray Bleepin’ Allen!! That’s a bucket!” All 3 of them cracked up. People see what’s happening with this team. They know.
Um ... ok.
So, Rondo is not causing a bulk transformation in what we will all expect out of PGs over the next decade.
Is that anybody’s contention?
Sander’s actual contention is still very valid – Rondo is having success despite doing it, overall, quite different from how conventional wisdom says a PG should do it.
Is it different from anything we’ve ever seen from a PG before? No, of course not. If anything Rondo is playing more like a throwback as probably the most purest replica of the way Bob Cousy played – with a dominant emphasis on facilitating the highest percentage shot on the floor rather than on scoring first.
But it IS different from what almost all other modern PGs are doing.
I agree that it might be stretching it to say that Rondo ‘lead’ this team to its 2008 title. But he most certainly wasn’t just ‘along for the ride’. He was an integral part of that team and it is somewhat dismissive and misdirecting to call him its ‘weakest link’. Could they have won with just a joe-average ‘conventional’ PG who was of a ‘shoot-first’ mentality?
Of course, Sanders wasn't trying to push the comparison too far--
—he wasn’t saying Rondo would end up with as many rebounds or as many rings. (Though he does seem to have mentioned that as many boards as Rondo is capable of from the point could be something new.)
Sanders was primarily saying that detractors tended to focus on what both these players couldn’t do, rather than looking at what they were doing. Mr. King, I would suggest, has played into this perfectly: focusing on how Rondo is not like Russell.
Satch
Brilliant as always. Focus on what he CAN DO. And yes, it’s no surprise Cousy is a fan. Rondo seems closest to what Bob was about (and maybe JKidd in his prime). Making the right play, playing d and WINNING.
He wasn't saying Rondo was as dominant as Russell
He was saying that people overlook his impact on the game because they focus on his easily identifiable shortcomings (case in point, the author). Rondo wasn’t really inconsistent last year. He was 3rd among pgs in double doubles, 5th in PER and widely seen as the best defender in the lot. He spent most of the year in the conversation for the top 5 point guards in the league. And he might not change the way scouts search for talent, but that’s somewhat due to the uniqueness of his skillset.
Whether Rondo changes the way teams scout depends on what happens in Rondo’s career over the next five years. A lot may depend on this year. If he averages 14 assists a game and the Celts win a championship, yes, I think scouting will change.
How does he change scouting
Do coaches tell their scouts to “get them a player like Rondo”?
I mean,
they will. And there will be such players, because to some extent there already are but they aren’t appreciated as much, and because Rondo will influence how people play out here in Reality.
There are other players like Rondo
In the nba right now, or not in the league because they don’t get signed? Who are these players?
Rondo does a few things that are innovative...
1. Allowing the man you are guarding to beat you intentionally so you can pick his pocket from behind. Before Rondo entered the league, this was a strategy used only in pick up games. In 20+ years of watching NBA basketball, I have absolutely never seen anyone use this strategy like Rondo does.
2. Using the bounce pass when you are within 2 feet from the person you are passing to. Now again, am I saying that nobody ever did this before Rondo? Of course not, but I have never seen anyone use this so consistantly and effectively. The reason? Because it is almost impossible to throw a bounce pass that close without using spin. It will either bounce too high or too low. So for years most players would elect the hand off. But Rondo’s advanced use of english on the ball has created a better option than the hand off. He perfects this move by slightly leaving the floor as if to shoot so the defenders hands go up for the block, and finishes it off with an english bound pass that is extremely easy to catch and finish in one stride.
3. Left handed bounce pass. Mike Gorman (a true historian of the game) constantly comments on this! He has never seen anyone use this pass like Rondo, nor has anyone. Is he the first person to ever use this? Of course not! But how many players in the history of the game do you know who used this as consistently and effectively from such distance as Rondo?
Look, basketball has been around for a long time, so to come up with anything that has NEVER been done before is almost impossible at this point. But Rondo has an array of tools in his belt that he uses that are by no means taught and most other pg’s could never accomplish. In 2010, that sounds pretty innovative to me, a lot like Bill Russell.
SCOTT
Lefty passing
It’s an insult to Steve Nash and John Stockton that you talked about Rondo is innovative with his ability to pass with the left hand. Stockton was doing it before Rondo was born, while Nash probably has more left-handed assists that Rondo does assists.
I've seen both Stockton and Nash make a ton of lefty passes
But I’ve never seen them do some of the lefty passes Rondo does.
I clearly state...
“Is he the first person to do this? Of course not!”…I was referring specifically to long distance lefty bounce passes….and as BballTim said “I’ve never seen anyone do the type of left handed bounce passes that Rondo does.”
So for the record Rondo did not invent the lef handed bounce pass, oh and by the way neither did Stockton or Nash! Bob Cousy did!
SCOTT
its not that others don't do lefty passing
but Rondo does do a few freaky passes that are just way out there.
Last year, he had that one-handed, left-handed lazer fastball he zipped across the court to a wide-open Pierce for an assist – that was practically defying the laws of physics!
I wish I could remember which game that was in. That was an amazing pass.
On the back-side pick-pocket steals (Item 1) – that’s Gary Payton all over, baby!
Was that pass against New Jersey?
He had a ridiculous pass against the Nets down in Jersey…I forget who it was to, though…
Actually, he is quite competant and smart. A friend of mine makes his own wine. A few times a year he has “wine night” a samples a few with friends. Satch was at the last one. It was hard to not be like o my God and pick his champion brain. But we had a very eloquent conversation. And when the game finally did come up, I began to believe that he should be on the sidelines right now. Brilliant basketball mind.
Not a very nice comment, dude.
by Warrior Spirit on Dec 15, 2010 9:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I`ve heard him interviewed countless times...
Despite the very dignified and scholarly look, classy bow-tie, agonizingly slow speech pattern, and outward appearance of extreme intellect….I`m still waiting for him to say something worth taking note of.
Evolution
You said no one has revolutionized the game since Jordan, which I think might be wrong. Thinking about it, I wonder if Dirk Nowitzki has revolutionized the game. I’m not saying there weren’t great shooting big men before Dirk, but he’s the first 7-footer to play a perimeter game. Before Dirk, 7-footers played in the post. Now, you see a lot of hybrid big guys who can stretch the floor and play outside. Of course, I’m not a historian of the game (I’m only 21) so I could be way off here, but that’s my take.
I'm with Satch,
who by the way was my favorite player as a kid. Russell and Rondo are both smart, to go along with superb physical gifts. They both approach their position in unique ways. They are consummate artist/thinkers on the court. I see the comparison in that light.
No one else plays like Rondo (actually, Ricky Rubio plays sorta like him), but who played like Russell either? The influence they have had is indirect, because they’re unique. Who wouldn’t add a Russell or Rondo to their team? But there aren’t any available.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
I think Nate Thurmond followed directly in Russell’s footsteps and Satch himself did at a different position. Silas, Rodman and Ben Wallace all had a lot of Russell’s defensive/rebounding genius though none passed as well.
For defense and rebounding (forgetting their great offense) Olajuwon and Garnett are actually the closest I’ve seen to Russell.
by BouncingBuckeye on Dec 14, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
The Rodman comparison is interesting
I never thought of that.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Rodman was a great rebounder
But not a good passer, Russell had a knack for rebounding the ball and making a long outlet pass to a running guard who would then pass to another guard for a layup. I watched some old Celtics games on youtube (the game has changed so much) and you come to find that a lot of the time the Celtics guards would play defense until the shot went up, after that they ran down court (much like a lot of the guards do now), Russell would rebound the ball and instantly look up to make a half court outlet pass, and when he through it, it was pinpoint so the guard would waste no time controlling it before he went to dribble.
It doesn’t show up on the stat sheet (because his outlet pass usually leads to a 2 on 1 break which means the guard who catches the ball, passes to the other guard and gets the assist) but those pinpoint outlet passes won championships.
by AussieGreen on Dec 14, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that list seems about right, agree that Rodman is an interesting addition, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes, good call.
by Warrior Spirit on Dec 15, 2010 9:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Recent "Mold-breakers"
1) Kevin Garnett- 7ft (although he says 6’12) 22+pts 12+ rebs 5+ assists PF that is the best defensive player in the game, and lives on turnarounds and pick and pop jumpshots
2) Dirk Nowitzki- 7ft 25pt, 9 Reb PF that has the offensive arsenal of a SF, shooting 35% plus for the last 7 years or something.
3) Kevin Durant- 6’10 SF that comes off screens like Ray Allen and rebounds as well or better than most forwards. (
4) LeBron James- 6’10 SF that plays like a fullback but passes like a point guard, as well as being all-NBA defensive talent
5) Jason Kidd- 6’4 PG that passes like a hall of famer, rebounds like a power forward, defends shooting guards, and can’t shoot to save his life. (although, he did learn to shoot a 3pter as his career wore on. Kidd is the most Rondo-like player I can think of, and I’m far from the first to say it)
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
Regarding Dirk
I meant 35% from behind the 3pt line, often broaching 40%. On top of that he’s a pretty handy scorer from anywhere inside the 3pt line too.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
by Tom Bellinger on Dec 14, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
To piggy back on this, and go back to the article’s point about changing the game, I think KG and Dirk did more in that regard than MJ. There were big guys who played on the perimeter before them, but the idea of what we now call the “stretch four” was not really pervasive. The 3 point shot has become integral to success as well, which is another factor—and honestly the rules have dictated some of this. Jordan changed the game as much as the ridiculous illegal defense rules and sludge ball defense made a good iso-guard something important to have. Then they scrapped them for the defensive 3 seconds and eliminated hand-checking to a large degree and so we are seeing a premium on quick, skilled PGs and deep shooting.
Russell on the other hand -and I should add the caveat, he’s way before my time and this is only my impression from reading and listening to others- really did change the game. My impression is that Bill Russell basically invented defense. Or what is the modern concept of defense. If someone knows better and can confirm that (or set me straight!) please do! :)
Satch makes a good point
about people’s initial inability to see beyond the obvious hole in each player’s game. Perhaps that flaw drove each of them to develop their great compensatory skills. I’ve always seen Rondo as a sort of cross between Cousy and KC Jones. It’s an unusual skill set that won’t change the game the way Russell’s did, simply because it will be too hard to duplicate. Still the Rondo-Russell comparison is a good one and Satch should know since he was one of the first to build on Russell’s innovations and begin to redefine the forward position.
by BouncingBuckeye on Dec 14, 2010 2:34 PM EST reply actions
Ive always thought Maravich myself
by Warrior Spirit on Dec 15, 2010 9:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dear Satch...
Rondo is dishing off to 4 future Hall of Famers.
How many is Deron Williams dishing off to?
I believe Russell was rebounding and defending for a whole slew of HOFer’s as well.
by BouncingBuckeye on Dec 14, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Russell helped make them HOF'ers.
One can’t say that about Rondo, of course, but he seems to be extending their careers and building their resumes (and it’s mutual, of course, as it was for Russell).
I don't know
Rondo has helped prolong Paul, Ray, and KG’s windows more than I think you’re giving him credit for. Now, Kevin Garnett was a probable HOF’er before he got to Boston, now he’s a surefire.
But if last seasons’ run did anything it helped Ray and Paul in the eyes of a HOF committee. And during last season Rondo was usually the best player on the floor.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
by Tom Bellinger on Dec 14, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Just a niggling point
Garnett was a sure-fire Hall of Famer before he came to Boston. No player has ever won the MVP and not made the Hall of Fame. He was already first ballot.
I’ll accept that.
Reporter: About a year ago I asked about the Celtics-Lakers thing and you said you'd really only seen it on TV. Now you've been through it, can you talk about playing the Boston Celtics for the NBA championship?
Kobe: It Sucks.
by Tom Bellinger on Dec 14, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
That’s such a bad excuse, especially for Celtics fans who watch him night in and night out. In the 07-08 season you could maybe make that argument, but Rondo has been our best player for the past 2+ seasons now. Ray, Paul, KG, and Shaq are all in the downfall of their career, and while they still play well, there is no way they can play at a HOF level every game. Rondo’s play definitely prolongs their career and makes them look a lot better on the court. Doc and even the players themselves have said it plently of times.
It’s not like he’s dishing out assists to a 28 year old Shaq or KG in their prime/MVP years.
Also, I think part of what Sanders is saying is that Rondo, like Russell, plays the game, not his position. And that’s not just a matter of stats. Lebron, for example, has a stat line that suggests that he plays the game and not his position, and in a way he does, but in a way he doesn’t. There is a level beyond the level reached by those with multiple physical talents and multiple skills, where you ‘see’ the game in a way no one else seems to see it. We’ve already heard Garnett talking about this quality in Rondo. Guys like Russell and Bird ‘see’ what the game can be, ‘see’ how all the players on their team can weave together in view of that, and in time, everyone BEGINS to see the game the way they ‘saw’ it.
Will Rondo be one of those, or will he ‘just’ another really good guy with special skills and unusual vision? Time will tell. A lot of the story will be told this year. I think we all know that, as important as Garnett’s return to form, and Pierce’s determination, and Allen’s amazing focus, and Shaq’s rejuvenation and Big Baby’s growth and the returns of Perkins and Delonte and NateRob’s increasingly appealing ‘microwave’ vibe – as important as all these things are to our chances for number 18, the key is Rondo.
Rondo is exceptional and outstanding
When I first saw Rajon play, I knew he was something special and I knew that he would bring the Celtics back to their glory. He has unbelievable court vision. He also has the eye-hand coordination of a quarterback. He sees everything and he gets the ball to his teammates where they can use it. He makes the others play better, which makes a winning team. While MJ may have upped the value of one-on-one highlight play, Magic and Larry renewed interest in the NBA and grew the league with the ability to pass and get the team involved. Rondo does the same and that is what makes the Celtics a great team. The Celtics are also defined by their tenacious defense. With his ability to steal the ball, third in the league, he is all over players and frequently disrupts the opposing offense.
I also want to point out that he is flexible enough and multi-talented enough to do what the team needs. If they are shooting well, he passes and leads the league in assists. If they are cold and need a spark, he can penetrate, drive the hole and artfully lay it in or pass it for an assist. He has the occasional pull up jumper or 3-pointer as well. He can lead and take over when necessary to win.
Finally, he has that intangible winner pedigree. Remember game 7 of the finals last year when our shooters ran out of gas and they had nothing in their legs to make the shots. When the game was on the line, Rondo didn’t go for the tie; he went for the steal and the win. He has the killer instinct and his eye on the prize. Lord, keep this kid healthy and we’ll be back in the finals and we will win it.
the court vision thing
I think is the unique ability that really makes Rondo stand out.
Folks who think that Rondo is running the offense with an assist-first mentality are missing the point. He’s not ‘passing up his own shot’.
He’s doing a calculus each time, whether deliberate or intuitive, as to what the highest percentage shot is going to be, given the way the play is unfolding. When he has KG, Paul, Shaq & Ray on the floor, naturally MOST of the time its going to be one of those guys. But his job is still to pick out the best option from those choices. And he has shown again and again, that when the defense dictates it, he will choose himself as the best option.
The true measure of this isn’t the number of assists, its the team FG%.
Yesssss
I was thinking the same thing in the comparisons. I have been thinking this for a while
Both were supremely intelligent and see things other people just don’t see
Both do not like the media at all, which i love lol
Rondo has that Bill Russell in him, in that he has that unshakeable will to win. And gosh even the way both of them are misunderstood in their style of play. I know Rondo won’t reach the number of championships as Russell, but no doubt Rondo would get at least two NBA Finals MVP’s before his career is over
And thats saying alot for Rajon Rondo to be compared to the Greatest NBA Player who ever played
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