Ainge Denies Rumors
by Jeff Clark on Feb 12, 2010 5:09 PM EST
in Boston Celtics Rumors
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PrintBelieve what you want, but keep in mind it is rumor season. Everyone lies.
Ainge: 'No deals' - Celtics Blog - Boston.com
Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said Friday he has not discussed trades involving the Charlotte Bobcats or Washington Wizards. "There is no truth to either one of those," Ainge said. "I have had conversations with a lot of teams but those have never been discussed. There are a lot of things I would like to do but I don't feel a need to do something. I am always looking to upgrade the team, if possible."
Multiple sources shoot down Allen-to-Wizards rumor
Multiple league sources on Friday said the two sides have had no discussions about this trade, or any trade for that matter.
It's no secret that the Cleveland Cavaliers have coveted Jamison for quite some time.One league source indicated that this story was in all likelihood planted by someone looking for the Cavs to intensify their efforts at landing the 6-foot-9 forward. This would solidify their efforts towards an NBA title, in addition to pleasing LeBron James who as we know, can bolt from Cleveland this summer when he becomes a free agent.
Update: Mike Jones reports that
League source confirms Wizards, Celts engaged in trade talks. BOS interest in Jamison, Butler. Wiz in R. Allen. Other pieces being discussed
Get ready for more denials and confirmations. Everyone lies, except when they don't.
Update 2: In a report mostly about the talks between the Mavs and Wizards, there's this bit at the end (via Marc Stein):
Although one source warned Friday that it would be a mistake "to sleep on that one," another source close to the situation insisted to ESPN.com that a Boston-Washington swap looks "very doubtful" because of the considerable long-term expense Boston would be taking on -- for players who play the same positions as Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett -- and because of Washington's reluctance to part with Jamison.
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maaaan.
now i just want this trade deadline gone.
If the Cavs go ahead and trade for Jamison and the C's stand pat
It would suck.
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
It seemed too good to be true.
On the other hand you can’t tell me there is not any truth to all the rumors that we heard about these past few weeks.
Danny always denies these rumors, but he did the same with the KG and Ray trade rumors so it means nothing.
So I still believe there is truth to it, I don’t know if it will get done but I hope so.
Also, these “league sources” are getting annoying… every trade rumor and denial of trade rumor are “according to league sources”. Which league source should we believe, uh, since they are all “league sources”?
apparently we should never believe ANY league sources lol and just see how it plays out now.
by WikedCeltsFan7 on Feb 12, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Chicago
The more I think about the Wash and Chicago trade rumors, the more I like the Chicago deal. The reason is the money and the fit.
If we do the Washington deal next years payroll will be 95-100M can’t see that happening. I know it’s not my money, but …. If it does, we might become the Boston Knicks. That’s a chunk of change and kills any possible re-tooling until 2012 or 2013. I think, if we trade Ray, it needs to be a deal that bring in a young player and an expiring contract so that we aren’t hamstrung for the next 2 or 3 years.
The second reason is that the fit isn’t very good. Butler is a small forward and that’s the same position PP plays. Do they split time? Sure one of them can play SG, but that’s a position, although closely related, is different from their normal position. They’ll have to learn to defend different players so you lose some of their experience in that scenario. Jamison play PF and that’s where KG plays. Again are they going to rotate? allace and BBD play PF so where do they get their PT. I guess they could rotate with Perk or we could rotate the 5 using the C/PF positions. But does that make any sense.
Let’s face it the key to this year’s team is KG who has 2 bad knees. The surgically repaired knee is not 100 percent. It often takes a year to fully recover. The hyper extended knee has not fully recovered and has retarded the rehabbing of the other knee.
Heinrick can play the 1 or 2 (combo guard) plays defense, decent shooter, rebounder and ball handler. He can be our Backup PG. Defensively he can play the shooting guard on defense and let Eddie try to play the backup PG. He handles the ball and lets Eddie do his thing – shooting.
Thomas is a head case, but a change of scenery might help. He gives us a long, athletic forward who can run. He can play both forward spots. He brings shot blocking, offensive/defensive rebounding. Might see some highlight real lobs from Rondo. He can play the athletic bigs that we have trouble with Josh Smith, Chris Bosh, and Rashard Lewis. He’s a restricted FA, on the books for 6.2M next year. We have 30 games to decide if we want match an offer sheet, if he gets one. If he doesn’t, we have an entire year to decide if we want to sign him to a big contract. I think, that’s a win-win for us. This is low risk/high reward scenarios
And James, who cares he comes off the books this off season.
Next year, if we do the Wash deal our salary for 8 players is 86.5M and we still have to add 5 players, including a 1st Rd Pk. However, the Chicago deal puts us at only 78M for 8 players and we have some flexibility to add some role players and keep our salary around 85M, which is has been. our Cap Number for the past 2 year. I think it all round better fit. We lose some shooting but pickup defense, rebounding and shot blocking. Plus we have more cap flexibility. Also, Heinrick and Thomas would be easier to move than Jamison.
Long post, but that’s the way I see it
Start Talking Then...
Well if Ainge hasn’t talked to Washington about making this trade yet, now he should start to- it makes perfect sense for both teams.
tired of Danny's quotes
“i dont feel the need to do something”
i know this is probably a lie but it just makes you sound ignorant…. at least reiterate what your coach and players are saying “something needs to be done”
why would he reveal anything beyond the most casual interest through the media?
Have you ever negotiated with someone before? You don’t do anything to reveal your level of interest.
Whatever he says in public is just spew to fill the time between when the reporter asked the question and the next question.
that doesn’t stop other teams from publicly admitting interest, i.e. cleveland, etc…only the celtics are standing pat while other teams continue to improve themselves with YOUNGER
players.
All I'm saying is that Danny saying something in public
doesn’t mean anything. You can’t judge their level of interest by that.
Even when other teams can claim they are interested – that is just as often just smoke to use as leverage with someone else.
I.E. – I could say I’m VERY interested in buying a Honda …. when I really want the Nissan dealer to cut me a better deal.
So don’t worry too much about what they are saying – it may or may not have anything to do with what they actually are doing or want to do.
imagine your trying to negotiate with that Nissan dealer
while the mechanics for the Honda right by your side and they keep talking about how the Hondas are going to break down soon and then one drives by and bursts into flames in the 3rd quarter again.
as if the GM's don't already know Danny desperately wants to do a trade
if they don’t all they need to do is look up some recent quotes from our players or… rather look at the box scores from the last 15 games.
Danny needs to just admit he wants to do a trade, he sounds dumb pretending like his team is OK.
Poker players don't reveal their hands until they have to
and Danny is about as shrewd as they come!
by Las Vegas Asian on Feb 12, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
ok but in this game everyone knows Danny's hand...
it’s Ray Allen. if anyone is going to act ‘shrewd’ it should be the GMs trying to cut cost with Ray’s contract.
Danny should open the flood gates on this trade.
Here's where I trust Danny to be cagey and do the right thing.
If he says yes too soon he could just be helping Washington bid up the price. Everyone knows Ray’s getting dealt, but not everyone knows what the ultimate price will be for the high-bidding team.
Yes, the Ray Allen card is face up.
But what offers you’ve got for him? Or what you’ve asked others for him? Those are face down.
There are lots of reasons to be as vague as possible. I really can’t think of any plus to being high-disclosure about this sort of negotiation.
What does his saying anything about this to the media have to do with ‘opening the flood gates’? Every GM has Danny’s phone number and I’m sure he has theirs.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuure Danny...
No reason to think this is any less of a possibility than it was this morning. I don’t believe a word outta that guy’s mouth, God bless ’im.
If Ainge Hasn't Really Been Talking To Other Teams
Then Leo Papile must be losing his voice by now. Ah, plausible deniability is a wonderful thing.
Danny is LYING - of course he's talked to Washington
Woj has multiple sources on these discussions. Other commentators (like Ryen Russilo) have made clear how desperate the C’s are to trade Ray. Given how desperate Washington is to dump salary, they’re a perfect match. It’s like two horny virgins on prom night.
by TremendousUpsidePotential on Feb 12, 2010 1:44 PM EST reply actions
"Don't feel a need to do something"
Maybe Danny is one of the prime optimists who posts on this blog :-)
key word "team"
Danny might not have talk to several teams….wonder how many agents though?
Right...
I didn’t even get to chime in my usual line of “So how long before Danny denies this rumor?”
Danny’s too swift for me, clearly. : (
…Or is he? I’ll believe there’s no validity to these rumors when Ray is still on this roster in two weeks. Period.
And lol @ no one voting for Danny in the poll. I mean, you don’t say. : )
And
I just saw Jeff update with Mike Jones reporting that a “league source” (most hated term by MILES) says the C’s and Wizs ARE talking….you don’t say!
…Who’s Mike Jones? >_> I know the rapper Mike Jones (who made an album, interestingly enough, called “Who is Mike Jones?”, but who does this reporter work for?
CSN reporter for Washington
see his stuff here:
http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/landing_09/?blockID=179547&feedID=2992
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Ya Mike Jones is a very reliable WAS source
It makes sense that Ainge would deny rumors, why would he confirm rumors???
Woj is the man, and has so many sources, so there is definitely some TRUTH to the rumor, whether or not it amounts to anything is another issue
Follow me @jimmy_toscano
by Jimmy Toscano on Feb 12, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I don't want to give Woj much credit
too many of his rumors turn into vapor. He doesn’t have a great track record, imho.
That said, Danny’s very job as a negotiator (potentially working with multiple teams at ths same time) is to completely blow nothing but smoke.
I kinda hate when people accuse him of lying. This is negotiations. I’d call it “managing misinformation” …
:-D
Well
I guess you don’t like the term “lying” cause it implies it’s a bad thing, right? I’m ok with Danny lying. If anything, it means something really is going on. 8 )
Lots of his rumors could be talks that at least one side initiated--
but the other side wasn’t interested in. Still, they talked and there was a possibility/offer.
Ok, thanks : )
I was hoping he worked for the Wizards.
Gotta say I haven’t been this excited in terms of trades since the MLB trade deadline when the Red Sox traded away Manny.
I knew Danny was going to deny ANY rumors be3fore the deadline. But he did the same before the Draft 2007, and also shortly thereafter in the beginning of July (before the Garnett deal), but everybody knew a nuclear bomb was going to be dropped. Same here. At this point it seems highly UNlikely that nothing will happen.
remember
how many times the KG rumor went back and forth (denied and reported)?
yeah, this ain’t dead yet
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Believe
I will believe they are true when it happens.
Imagine the Expiring Contracts
Between Jamison and KG, we’d have like $35M in expirings in 2012.
And between PP (who, my guess is NOT opting out) and Butler – that’s another what $30M in 2011?
Do I have that wrong?
by TremendousUpsidePotential on Feb 12, 2010 2:23 PM EST reply actions
yup
that’s the undersold aspect of this deal
maintaining trade chips
you could even send Butler out with other pieces this summer for Joe Johnson in a sign-and-trade deal
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Great Point re: Joe Johnson
I doubt we could make that happen or that Atlanta would do a S&T with us. But it does open up possibilities we didn’t have before. Especially if Butler comes to us and plays really well down the stretch.
by TremendousUpsidePotential on Feb 12, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
good point abotu JJ.
To really ‘perfect storm’ the 2012 season, they could probably pickup Ray after the buyout and then sign him to a two-year sunset contract.
That might be putting too much expiration all into one year – but wow.
Jeff Jeff Jeff
If we make this deal our salary next year will at least 90M and probably closer to 95M. I really can’t see that happening. And even though we would have expiring contracts to trade you have to take back at least 75%. That’s still a lot of money. and most teams want the other to take back more than they send away. Now it’s getting rediculous. Especially with the cap and luxury tax schedule to go down.
not only that
but it is also the year Sheed comes off the books and would be $43M coming off the books
Its a win win situation
This team (with this core) will in the short term will have a longer window to win a banner, and in a few years when all those big contracts expire we will be able to rebuild then for the future.
And if we still suck
Then what. The key to this team is KG. If he’s not right we aren’t winning a darn thing. The bottom line is that we would be well on the way to becoming the Boston Knicks. Let’s take 2 years to be doormats and then count on Cap room ot buy a new team. Oh, BTW, there will be a new CBA by then and it may ruin that strategy.
I think we need to step back and really anylyze what we need to do now and how it affects what happens in 2 years.
expiring contracts
It makes too much sense for Ainge not to want to do this. With all that expiring money coming off the books two years running he would be one of the lead players to be able to make Kevin Durant an unrefuseable offer either summer. Durant’s been on his radar for a while now.
be still, my heart
Love Durant.
(Hate the Thunder. But LOVE Durant.)
I'm betting DA has talked with every single potential trading partner at LEAST once.
But his job (just like theirs) is to blow smoke in the media.
Whatever happens will happen and that’s when we’ll know about it.
Why does Danny feel obligated to deny EVERY rumor
It seems he’s spending more time in the WEEI studios than the celtics offices. Why can’t he just let rumors sit instead of addressing every single one individually?
Probably because...
…he wants Ray to feel some sense of comfort assuming he isn’t able to make a deal.
I do love how Danny is having conversations but never with any of the teams who are clearly in the market to make a deal. What’s he trying to spin here? That he’s calling Cleveland and trying to get Lebron?
by TremendousUpsidePotential on Feb 12, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Ha good point
He’s had no conversations with Sacramento, Charlotte, Philadelphia, and Washington, according to him. Maybe he has laryngitis.
Right!!!!!!!!!!!
If he did there’d be twenty-five post on this board who would say he hiding and scared to answer media questions. If he talks he’s wrong if he doesn’t he’s wrong. Good thing he’s only accountable to Wyc.
i heard on the radio that wyc turnned down spending all that extra $$ on the cap. if that is the case, that,s what danny is doing—covering his bum and his bosses bum.
Maybe that's true or maybe the C's are trying to get them to sweeten the pot.
Some cash back? Another player thrown in?
Celtics' Payroll for Next Year
If the Celtics simply let Ray’s deal exire, their payroll for next yeart wil be 63 million dollars for only 6 players: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo, Perkins, Wallace and Davis. Of that 63 million, the two aging stars— Garnett and Pierce— will make 40 million.
Plus, they will have to find 6 more players, and they will need to extend Perkins if they want to keep him.
Their bench just disappears— poof! Not exactly a recipe for a championship, is it?
Get All In or Get All Out
We don’t want to turn into the Bucks or something.
This Washington deal makes sense because it doesn’t handicap us beyond 2012. And it keeps the otherwise unlikely prospect of a championship at least somewhat feasible the next two springs. You gotta get something for Ray and I doubt a S&T is what Danny has in mind.
by TremendousUpsidePotential on Feb 12, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
two reasons I'm still hopeful:
1. Danny says it’s not happening
2. This is the Wizards we’re talking about — it wasn’t too long ago that things got ugly between the Wiz and the Cavs.
http://blog.cleveland.com/cavaliers_corner/2008/04/time_to_talk_wizards.html
Do they really want to beef the Cavs up? I wouldn’t, not even if I were blowing up the team. I know personal issues aren’t the whole enchilada, but hey, it’s working for me ;)
Woj was just interviewed
Says the story is 100% accurate.
by TremendousUpsidePotential on Feb 12, 2010 4:12 PM EST reply actions
Yeah, but all that means is that
“… the Boston Celtics are discussing a deal with the Washington Wizards ….”
’Doesn’t mean the deal will happen.
Butler seems is going to Dallas
The Dallas deal is nowhere near as good for Washington as the Boston deal
Haywood is an expiring that they’d be adding to Butler. Butler and Jamison saves them a ton more. If they truly have the Dallas deal as offered and the Boston deal as we understand it, they’d be morons to accept the Dallas deal.
Excerpt that Pertains to the Celts
Yahoo! Sports reported Friday that the Wizards and Boston Celtics are discussing a trade that would send Butler and Jamison to the Celtics for a package headlined by Ray Allen’s $19.7 million expiring contract. Celtics general manager Danny Ainge has subsequently denied such talks, telling The Boston Globe “there is no truth” to the notion of swapping Allen for two players who could dramatically reshape the look of the Celtics.
Although one source warned Friday that it would be a mistake “to sleep on that one,” another source close to the situation insisted to ESPN.com that a Boston-Washington swap looks “very doubtful” because of the considerable long-term expense Boston would be taking on — for players who play the same positions as Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett — and because of Washington’s reluctance to part with Jamison.
“I have no control over trade rumors,” Allen said via his Twitter feed. “Let’s just focus on being positive. I am a Celtic. Green all day.”
So it sounds like he'll be coming back in a buyout!
That’s part of where the respect that Doc and Danny show to the players and their families all year long pays off.
Ainge May have been Telling the Truth
All good liars tell the truth sometimes, otherwise the lies are ineffective. It’s like bluffing in poker.
In this case, the rumor may well have been floated by the Wizards to get some movement from Dallas (Butler) or Cleveland (Jamison),
I’ve gbeen thinking about this. The deals that make financial sense for the Celtics are those in which Ray is traded for a wing player who makes about half (or less) of what Ray makes, plus expirings. They probably aren’t going to invest salary in a power forward with Garnett still on the books, unless it’s Amare Stoudemire, who is an Ainge fave.
That means Ray for:
1. Kevin Martin and Kenny Thomas (expiring)
2. Jason Richardson and Ben Wallace (expiring) — although Richardson probably makes a little too much
3. Monta Ellis and Raja Bell (expiring) also CJ Watson if needed to make salaries match.
4. Caron Butler and Mike Miller (expiring) or Mike James, who fills a bigger need this year and is also expiring.
5. Kirk Hinrich, Jerome James (expiring) and Tyrus Thomas (QO)
If Ray is traded, IMHO will be in one of the above deals, although some of the lesser names may change.
I also expect Ainge, if he does not trade for a player like Hinrich or Ellis, to attempt to move BBD for a backup pg— if not Augustin then someone else.
Iggy and Dalembert
I’d throw Iggy and Dalembert into that list of possible deals for Allen (plus another C’s expiring contract).
Dalembet's Contract is Too Long
Besides, how many crappy overpaid offensive centers do we really need?
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