Have You Lost Faith?
by Jeff Clark on Feb 26, 2010 6:02 AM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintSerious question. Have you lost faith in this team?
I know nobody is going to turn in their Celtics fan-card over a few months of bad basketball, but you have to admit, this isn't looking too good. You can be a fan of this team and still not believe in them. I'm not quite sure I'm there yet, but Gary Washburn sums up this feeling well:
In end, Celtics had had enough - The Boston Globe
Games like these make Boston fans look forward to Red Sox Opening Day and the NFL draft. Fans started leaving TD Garden when the Cavaliers took a 10-point lead with 5:29 left. Their faith was gone. They realized there was little chance of a rally, not with Garnett timid, Rondo misfiring, and Ray Allen stifled by the Cleveland defense.
Was it just a week ago that the Celtics, thanks to their defense, beat the Lakers at the Staples Center? The Cavaliers shot nearly 65 percent in the second half. So, the Celtics have two choices: Hold up their 2008 championship trophy and realize the run is over or scrape up what’s left of their pride, generate more energy, and focus on improvement.
The question is whether it’s too late.
We've got 26 games left before the playoffs. Can we turn this around or have you lost faith?
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Yeh I am losing faith
A championship teams plays consistently. And when or if they do lose, they don’t lose by 20! Especially to a team that are at the same level!
This is why I think the Cavs will blitz the Playoffs!!! The C’s simply cannot compete anymore!
Realistically, we are not winning another ring...
…but hope dies last…
I think Danny did too little at the deadline. Someone like Thorton or Ty Thomas would be perfect… and they didn`t cost much…
The problem with the team we have now is that with the regression of the big three in order for us to win another championship our chemistry should be on the 08 level. Unfortunately there are too many agendas and not enough togetherness. Ubuntu is gone.
On top of that we would need all our guys to be injury free and in form at the right time. And Doc would finally have to figure out our rotation and do a better job of managing the games…
Too many things are not “right” this season…it is unlikely everything just comes together in the playoffs that is why it is also unlikely we will be winning another ring…
This summer
I think Danny did too little at the deadline.
I agree. Not leveraging Ray’s expiring contract was just disappointing for me. He could have been traded and then have a buy out to get him back to Boston if that’s where wants wants to be. But let’s look towards the summer. IThis article is a bit outdated, but the core point about Boston acquiring Joe Johnson as a free agent sounds interesting:
Boston Celtics May Be Targeting Joe Johnson in 2010
Imagine a starting five of Rondo, Johnson, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Kendrick Perkins. Other NBA teams have stars in their eyes and will make a hard run at the other top free agents. Johnson may just slip under the NBA radar, and the Celtics may be able to make an offer that he cannot refuse. For one, if the Celtics win the 2010 championship, Johnson would have more than a passing fancy to join the “Boston Three-Party.”
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Umm....
Not leveraging Ray’s expiring contract was just disappointing for me. He could have been traded and then have a buy out to get him back to Boston if that’s where wants wants to be.
Really? Which deal was that again, you know, with the buyout? The Chicago one?
Point is, you heard the rumors just like we all did. It’s not like they didn’t try to shop Ray, they just couldn’t find the right deal to make it worth it. So saying that, “He could have been traded and then have a buy out to get him back to Boston if that’s where wants wants to be,” is a little ridiculous to me. Don’t you think that if there was a deal out there that would have produced that result, Danny would have pulled the trigger on it?
I dunno, maybe you have some sort of inside knowledge of a deal that would have resulted in this that I don’t have. But I doubt it.
Agreed.
And regarding Joe Johnson. I’m not sure how we are going to offer anyone an offer “that he cannot refuse” since we will be limited to the MLE.
Maybe that will be enough?
At any rate, our big signings this summer will probably be Ray (bird rights) and the best guy we can get for the MLE. And then resign our bench filler for scraps. And for one more year, we will pray for good health beyond any reasonable expectation.
Then in 2011-2012, we will finally unload KG’s and Sheed’s expiring contracts (and possibly Ray’s if we sign him for two years). Until then, this is the team we will have.
Ain't that the point?
And regarding Joe Johnson. I’m not sure how we are going to offer anyone an offer "that he cannot refuse" since we will be limited to the MLE.
I’m not an expert with trades and cap room, but what happens if Boston doesn’t re-sign Ray this summer? Couldn’t they use that cap space for someone like Joe Johnson?
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Now there we go...
That is the point, and I would fully be on board for letting Ray sign elsewhere if it means we can land Joe Johnson.
I think (Roy Hobbs and co. wrote about this before the deadline) that the C’s are over the cap number so much now that Ray’s contract coming off the books doesn’t allow us to spend that same amount of money on a new player.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
I do remember seeing that....
But even if it gives us, say, 15 or 16 mil of Ray’s 21 to work with, Joe Johnson is only making 14 this year.
So, if he’d be willing to forgo a raise this season and earn about the same, we could back-load a long-term deal and have a still have a chance at getting him, depending on how much interest he gets from other clubs, right?
You don't have 15-16 million to work with
They are still over the cap with Ray’s salary off the books, so they have no money to offer Johnson above the MLE.
Can you explain this a little more.
How much of Ray’s salary would be available then?
This would mean not trading Ray has very serious implications than I previously thought. I am assuming had he been traded, we could have got back contracts worth as much as Ray’s? Yes? No?
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
They could sign and then trade Ray and others and get back an equal amount of salaries
However, they cannot sign Ray to a much lower amount and then use the leftover money to sign a big free agent. There is a lot more than that, but I think this sums it up in a nutshell.
It’s not like they didn’t try to shop Ray, they just couldn’t find the right deal to make it worth it.
Really? Which deal was that again, you know the one they just couldn’t find the right deal to make it worth it? See what this could lead to? So let’s leave out who may or may not have inside information because we both don’t.
Don’t you think that if there was a deal out there that would have produced that result, Danny would have pulled the trigger on it?
No I don’t because it’s complicated. If there was a deal that does not include Ray being bought out, but still improves the Cs, then that would be an option too. After all, Ray is a free agent this summer, so he can sign with whichever team he prefers, including Boston. Point is, not leveraging Ray’s expiring contract was a mistake in my opinion.
I dunno, maybe you have some sort of inside knowledge of a deal that would have resulted in this that I don’t have. But I doubt it.
You really think anyone’s opinion is based on some inside information? I am not a big fan of stating the obviously obvious, but some of you seem to get a kick out of it.
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Some of us
state the “obviously obvious” because others seem to completely miss it half the time.
It’s not like they didn’t try to shop Ray, they just couldn’t find the right deal to make it worth it.Really? Which deal was that again, you know the one they just couldn’t find the right deal to make it worth it? See what this could lead to? So let’s leave out who may or may not have inside information because we both don’t.
Exactly, thanks for proving my point for me. I didn’t suggest a deal that could have made it worth trading Ray because I never heard one in the rumor Mill (‘cept the Caron Butler, Antwan Jamison one tha didn’t happen because the wiz decided to trade w/ Cleveland and Dallas instead.).
Now, I could certainly waste my time trying to make one up that would have been worth it, but without knowing if that deal was even remotely close to being on the table, it would be an exercise in futility.
And the “inside info” comment was sarcasm, which you’re clearly having trouble picking up, since you asked me if I “really think anyone’s opinion is based on some inside information?”
And if a deal that didn’t include Ray being bought out but would make the team better was available, then that would have been an option too? Woah! Hold-up, are you telling me that DA would have considered pulling the trigger on a deal that would have made the team better?!?
I think I need to sit down after that one! Phew!
You’re one valid point, and I’ll give you this, is that I stated “they just couldn’t find the right deal to make it worth it.”
I do not know that they didn’t find the deal to make it worth it. Maybe they did. And maybe they passed on it. But I think that’s highly unlikely, so I made the assumption that they couldn’t find a deal to make it worth trading Ray. And I’m willing to bet most ppl on here would agree with that assumption.
You explained yourself very well actually.
And yes, I did miss your sarcasm.
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Two more things
And if a deal that didn’t include Ray being bought out but would make the team better was available, then that would have been an option too? Woah! Hold-up, are you telling me that DA would have considered pulling the trigger on a deal that would have made the team better?!? I think I need to sit down after that one! Phew!
Yes, I actually am telling you that (ridicule it all you want). Don’t let it make your head spin just yet though. LOL
These kinds of decisions are NOT made all the time, for a variety of reasons. Why? Because “a deal that would have made the team better” also brings with it a known UNKNOWN, as in, there is really no way of knowing for sure that the player we’re trading for would in fact make the team better.
Even if all the necessary metrics or stats of the player under consideration all point to an upgrade, their projected future performance on the new team is still a guesstimate at best. In contrast, Ray is a known KNOWN to the Celtics in every possible way (hence the observation that some fo the best deals are the ones that are not made).
I didn’t suggest a deal that could have made it worth trading Ray because I never heard one in the rumor Mill (‘cept the Caron Butler, Antwan Jamison one tha didn’t happen because the wiz decided to trade w/ Cleveland and Dallas instead.).
Now, about the deal you suggested before you didn’t suggest it… Yuo can;t tell me DA could not have made a better offer if he had wanted to – meaning if he was satisfied with the known UNKNOWNS. My overall point is, it was a mistake not trading Ray any which way I process it – either Danny didn’t try hard enough or he did, but he concluded his known konw – Ray – was the better risk at this point in time. Either way, I think he missed an opportunity to improve the Celtics by leveraging Ray’s expiring contract.
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
NO WHERE TO GO BOSTON
When Boston got Ray and KG, it was for the moment. It wasn’t a long-term solution. There is NO WAY you guys can bring in a good player. Even with Ray leaving.
As KG and Ray go, so goes the Celtics franchise. At least you got a ring out of it.
Faith is one thing, but the reality is another
i am sure I will feel much better in the coming two weeks as the Celtics play 8 straight games against 2nd tier teams. But when they face the Cavs again two weeks later, I am afraid it will the same old same old.
nEVER
bOUGHT in to the70 win BS to begin with.
Then again, I wasn’t thinking we’d win only 52 either.
Not much you can do about age and injuries.
HELLO 1988!!!
Just relax buddy
It isn’t that bad.. One good FA signing over the summer (NOT RASHEED) and resigning RA on the cheap will get us right back into the competition. As it stands now we fight for the 2/3/4 seed in the much improved Eastern conference. That isn’t a bad position to be in. Additionally, maybe some young stud wants to come here and be “the man” on a team where your supporting cast members include 3 hall-of-fame players and a very good point guard? Sounds like a decent opportunity for a 26 – 28 year old star player that really wants a ring before his window closes too. Doesn’t it?
by funkstarrdeluxe on Feb 26, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
For a young stud
it’s about the money. Over 30-somethings start thinking about rings if they don’t have one already. Caron Butler was that guy but the opportunity slipped away.
by lemonade sky on Feb 26, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I do believe...
it’s not over until it’s over…
We should never give up, keep fighting until you can’t fight anymore.
I know it’s corny but I believe in my team and I know that we can win that goddamn championship.
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
CELTICS FOR LIFE
Nothing has changed
Lose faith because we lost to the Cavs without our best player? I know it’s a lot more than that for most of you but if you believed/didn’t believe two days ago, then I don’t see how this game changes either view point. I wonder how many people were convinced of banner 18 after last week’s Laker win.
Rondo ran out of gas in the 2nd half, that allowed the Cavs to lock down Ray (who has having a big game), and Doc incredibly decided to pair Nate with Rondo instead of giving Rondo a blow.
Mind boggling
Did I mention that move was mind boggling? CLE is so big, mixing Q and Tony would make more sense. Docs small ball obsession…
I think Docs did it because
.. at that point, the Celtics needed points and they could not buy a basket. He hoped Nate could provide some instant offense like the Microwave of the 80s.
by getthat18now on Feb 26, 2010 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
loss of faith
I won’t say I have lost faith. This team is still very good and there is a good chance that come playoff time the intensity will be at another level and they will compete for 48 minuets.
I am realistic about our chances though. Are the minuets going to kill Ray like in years past? Will Paul get healthy this season? Can KG’s knee stand strong? Will Rasheed play put in effort on defense? And if these things do happen can they hold it together for an entire game?
Reality probably is that this won’t happen, but the stars align then they are good enough to beat any team in a 7 game series.
To get on my high horse for a moment I will say that I am disappointed w/the Celtic’s fans more than the team. Team is old injury happens. But it seems like the fans (of all sports in this town) have become championship or bust. I can remember not too long ago when each of our four teams were the laughing stock of their league, and for the C’s it wasn’t that long ago. I’d rather watch the Green play exciting playoff basketball with a decent chance of playing into late June, than sit around fantasize about the potential of guys who likely will turn out to be solid role players.
I think we are easy to forget what the other side of the coin is like and we seem ungrateful. No offense Jeff, I enjoy your articles tremendously but I think articles like this just provoke the worst in fans. Not saying that we shouldn’t be critical or that we shouldn’t set high expectations, but rather that we should be tempered about this criticism and not encourage our irrationality. It wasn’t long ago that I remember hearing how Big Al was going to be McHale like in the post, D West had the potential to be a Billups like guard and GG was the next Kobe. Just keep things in perspective.
Nope.
Haven’t lost Faith in The Boston Celtics. They CAN win it all this year. I certainly see the struggles that we have been through and certainly was upset with last night, but I have seen our team pull out some impressive, improbable victories over the course of my nearly 30 yrs of being a Diehard…let’s see:
Glen “Eleventh Hour” Davis hitting that Game-Winning Buzzer beater last year to beat the Magic in ORL during the playoffs – and then putting the icing on the cake by almost running over the little kid on the sideline…Get out of the way, little fella, lol
Game 4 2007-2008 NBA Finals…Nuff Said.
Paul and Antoine’s Improbable Run Deep into the Playoffs in 2002..who saw that coming?
1987 or 88 NBA Playoffs Game VS Detroit: “It’s the Steal By Bird!!! Passes it to DJ Underneath who Lays it Up and In”…….WOW!
Ray Allen’s Back Breaking Buzzer beaters VS CHA and a few other teams over the last few years…
And many other Improbable victories that I cannot recall…
Celtics Mystique is what I call it. The ability of The Boston Celtics to pull out a victory or go on winning streaks at the right time.Winning no matter what. Not many NBA Teams can claim this.
Don’t get me wrong – CLE is certainly a Contender, as well as ORL, DAL, DEN, LA, and ATL….BUT:
Until one of them beats us in a Seven Game Series it’s not over…at least to me.
Not In My House!
agree with 18and19
I still think this is an elite team. Our talent 1-9 is as good as any teams, but our chemistry is better and we’ve got the most game changing point guard in the league.
Now, are the Celtics coasting through the reg season? yeah, they are – playing like its preseason really. ugly, lazy.
but…………i expect Sheed and KG to own the paint – just during the playoffs. and Rondo is a league best pg, and should take his playoff game to a whole new level this year. Ray is playing like a 28 year old – who better to stretch the floor? Quis can D-up the 3 like we all hoped. and we’ve added the a prime of career NR. Paul’s finally getting some time off, should be healthy soon. and most importantly, we know that KG still has got some left in the tank.
Don’t give up on this team, Boston. We’ve got as good a chance as anyone, and a chance is all you need.
KG hasn't owned the paint his whole career
That’s not has game and never has been
Only as good as....
…your franchise player. Who is? Not KG, not now. Key but no longer dominant with a cap D. Ray? Can score bundles but pas the point where he can take over. Rondo? Not til he can stick that jumper. Paul. At the start of the season, he was fantastic. Now? the battered old flag of the franchise. Fear the clubs fortunes really rise and fall w/how well he can bounce back.
rajon rondo - 2010 finals mvp
with the best supporting cast in the league.
a deal with the devil
we rolled the dice with Wallace and lost…he can’t defend or rebound …and he don’t care..
..Rondo is the other issue,he plays when he wants to-about 50% of the time…KG sucks but tries his a** off and these 2 guys just float thru games
Although
..those nutty (imho) rotation pairings are killing. No more Nate and Rondo, please. Danny got you Nate to rest Rondo. And play Sheed with Perk or KG. Or Sheldon. Glenn in there w/KG, ie keep one starter on the floor. Thank you. That is all.
"Was it just a week ago that the Celtics, thanks to their defense, beat the Lakers at the Staples Center?'
Without Kobe Bryant?
woo
Same thing with CLE... they won without pierce.
Plus, don’t forget the Fakers lost by 15 at Staples Center…. so we’re not alone.
Am i the only one whos watched pierce play lately?
we’ve been better without him, so to me, there is no “but but but they did it without pierce” factor in the here and now
Why do people continue to makes excuses for this team when we play legit contenders Denver and Cleveland, and then rally around them when they barely beat the lakers wtithout kobe and blowout some crappy team?
No
Lakers lost the game when 85% ft shooters wnt 1-3 (Fisher), 75% ft shooters went 0-2 (Bynum), and 68% ft shotters 0-2 (Farmar).
4th quarter Lakers 17-11 over celts.
As I posted at the time, celtics won the game, but didn’t “beat” the Lakers
by nba is the worst on Feb 27, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
You make too much of one game.
I know the blown leads have been a recurrent story this season but we were without Pierce and you should know that we weren’t going to shoot 70% from the field all night long.
Doesn’t excuse the collapse of the 4th quarter (Mo Williams was wide open every time and killed us) but still, this games does not change my opinion on that team, and I know we will be a beast in the playoffs.
It's too early to lose faith
Though Jeff, it has been clear for a couple of weeks now that yours is slipping.
Of course, the faith-losers will wrap their loss in the cloak of “realism”, etc. So here’s some reality you might be forgetting:
- This is the regular season. This team was always built for the playoffs. They do not want to kill themselves over ANY regular season game. The ENTIRE regular season is what it should be to the Cs: one long practice session. A few losses more or less do not mean ANYTHING now. More to the point, the Celtics believe that.
- Cs were missing Paul last night, and Quis was sick. Plus Nate is still learning the ropes, which tends to bewilder our wonderful coach a bit (by his own account).
- Despite the above, the Cs still dominated the Cavs for 2 quarters. Yes, they were the wrong two, but it still happened. Means they can do it again. And when the chips are finally down on the table, we can expect them to stretch those 2 quarters out to 4.
- So long as Shaq and Z are healthy, the Cavs are slow and off their game. Chances are they will both be healthy for the playoffs. Mike Brown is too stupid/stubborn/imagination-challenged to sit them both down for any game. Good for us.
- KG is still improving, only now there are no deep valleys. He’s pretty much going up on a smooth curve, heading right toward 95%-100% of his 07 self. That’s huge for the Cs. Huge.
- Ray’s on his game, big time.
- Rondo is much better now than in 07, better than he’s ever been.
- Perk can be better than he was in 07. Sheed is better than PJ. Nate is showing signs that he’s ready to put out 100%. Quis is a terrific asset. Baby’s playing well.
- This team, fully healthy and REALLY determined, can beat any team in the world. In a 7-game series.
You don’t need a lot of faith. You just need to look at the facts from the right angle. They add up to the same conclusion the true believers reach. The dream lives on. Nothing has changed. And the next game that matters will not be played until April.
STOP IT
This “you’re only a real fan if you think the team can win a championship” nonsense makes me want to scream. It has to stop.
There is a pattern to these games. They get a lead and then get tired. They get away with it against the Knicks and Nets, but the elite teams will murder us. Enough with the “they’re just waiting for the playoffs” excuse. It’s not as simple as getting to the playoffs and flipping a switch when you’ve done nothing but blow leads all season. They’re certainly good enough to win one series, maybe two, what evidence do we have to say that they have enough in the tank for a Finals run? They’ve faded, partly due to health. That’s another thing, quit the “when they get healthy” line. What evidence do we have that they’ll ever be fully healthy?
I want it to happen, and I’m still here so I’m obviously still on board. But at some point you can’t keep explaining away games like this.
by joebianca on Feb 26, 2010 9:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well said
I love the Celts and will never lose faith, but unfortunately, it’s over. This team is never going to be healthy again and even when they are, they play like there 50. KG looks like he can barely make it up the court sometimes, Pierce looks like he has a piano on his back when drives to the basket now, and rarely gets his normal fake foul calls anymore where he looks like he’s been mugged, but he hasn’t, and Allen is so inconsistent, although I will say he’s been playing much better since the trade deadline has passed. That coupled with the fact their role players can’t be role players anymore, and actually have to step up and play a lot, just kills this team.
Well said, Joe
This BS that you can only be a real fan if you think the Celtics can win it all is tiring. I and everyone else who do not believe they can win it get tarred as negative, bad fans, etc. Give me a break. This team has been bad for two months and there is no denying it. In the last 28 games, it is 13-15. It is 1-8 against the top 10 NBA teams at home and it is 3-10 versus Cleveland, Atlanta, Orlando, the Lakers and Denver. That is not the resume of a team that is going to win a championship.
What you call "excuse" is "reality"
You say that pointing out that we’re in the (virtually meaningless) regular season is “an excuse”. An excuse for what? I don’t understand. Is it not true that we’re in the regular season? Is it not true that winning now accomplishes almost nothing? That only the playoffs count?
How do you know that they can’t do what they did in the first half for a whole game, when the chips are down? I understand pessimism… it’s defined as adopting the least positive interpretation of every event. But a loss of ONE HALF of basketball – now, when it clearly does not count for anything – cannot, by any stretch, lead you to conclude that their cause is hopeless in the playoffs. There’s such a logical disconnect there, as to give even the most determined pessimist pause.
13-15 in their last 28 games
1-8 versus the top teams at home; 11 double-digit leads that have turned into losses. A lot more than one half against the Cavs.
But you're reacting to THIS game
…and you have not addressed the point that this regular season is nothing but one long practice session, except to state your disagreement… with no actual case.
Name me all of the teams who have sleep walked through the entire season
And then won the championship. I know, the 69 Celitcs, the Spurs, and probably one or two other teams. So yes, it happens, on a very rare occasion. And, if as you say the regular season is nothing more than practice, then I guess the Celts are having a lot of bad practices this year. And it looks like their practices are not getting much better. Finally, I am reacting AFTER this game, but not only to this game. Read what I posted about the futility in the last 28.
But they're not sleepwalking
They still have one of the NBA’s best records in the Lost column. They’re arguably not playing all-out, true… but they’re not sleepwalking either. They’re PRACTICING.
We just do not know, from the evidence at hand, what will happen in the playoffs. They’ve dominated every team at one point or another.. though not for whole game. The ability/potential is clearly there. The reality will present itself in due time… April, to be more exact.
Home court advantage is pretty important
Would the Celtics have gotten past Chicago last year or Atlanta the year before without it? It’s doubtful. It’s not always going to guarantee a victorious series obviously, but it is important. In the title run, let’s say the Lakers had home court and win the first two in Boston rather than the reverse. Could the Celtics have come back?
And there’s also the matter of establishing confidence in your team. Give a team like the Hawks or Magic the idea that they are better than you, and that translates into a more confident team in the playoffs.
by lemonade sky on Feb 26, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
I would characterize it as "fool's gold"
Of course you are right, it’s better to have it than not. But if your team is good enough to win the championship, you must be good enough to win on the road. Besides, sometimes teams are better on the road than at home… teams like the Celtics this season.
HCA is just not enough to worry about through 82 games. No, the regular season is one big practice session of the playoffs… and of course, it creates most of the income on which the NBA relies.
So why bother with the regular season
Why don’t the Celtics just play the bench every game and win enough to get the 8th seed since not games matter until April? This line of reasoning is ludicrous.
Don't let your emotions cloud your reason
Obviously, you’re upset and angry with the team and the universe. But the truth doesn’t change. The regular season does not count. Period. It’s sole purpose is to determine who gets to play ONE more game at home, as opposed to on the road, IF a playoff series reaches 7 games. It could HARDLY be more insignificant. You know that.
The purpose of the regular season is (a) to entertain us, and (b) to generate as much income as possible for the NBA. That’s it. As you and everybody knows, the actual championship is determined solely by the playoffs.
If I owned an NBA team, I would TELL THEM to take it easy in the regular season, conserve yourselves for the playoffs. Use the whole thing for practice, and nothing more. Remember, it does not count.
So the reasoning is the opposite of ludicrous. It’s reality. Take it easy, vin, relax. Wait for the real season.
Only half agree with that.
Yes, the real season is the postseason, but you can’t completely discount the regular season.
If it is just practice, then it’s a time to learn to play together, for players to develop roles/identities within the context of the team, for the team to develop and identity and learn how to overcome adversity (like, say, the Cav’s muscling their way back in last night).
What happens in the regular season ultimately affects what will happen in the post season, and I think the biggest cause for concern among all Celts fans right now is that we don’t necessarily see those roles/identities developing within the team.
That’s not to say they won’t develop before playoffs. I agree we all need to relax a little and see what happens come May, but I disagree with the notion that the regular season just doesn’t matter at all.
Well..
…doesn’t say they should ignore the reg season. Says they should use it for practice, which is what you’re saying.
Does what happens now affect the playoffs? Of course, everything affects everything else, so there’s always a case to be made for that. But I think: “only a little”. Certainly not enough to conclude from ONE HALF of play that the Celtics have NO CHANCE to win in the playoffs. That is… when you really think about it… ludicrous.
Even more so...
If the regular season is indeed a practice ground, then the most important thing is not the result of the games, so much as it is about developing consistent and reliable lineups.
Without a healthy Paul Pierce, how could this team have been expected to beat Cleveland? I mean, none of us thought this game was winnable. If the Celts had lost each and every quarter yesterday, nobody would be crying in their beers.
The next month is most certainly going to be about getting the most consistent and reliable lineups ready for the playoffs. This means developing flexibility in response to changing defensive strategy (i.e. cavs change in defense yesterday against Ray and Rajon). With Paul back as a renewed offensive threat for the starters, and with Nate as a new offensive threat for the bench, this team will be developing most specifically its scoring. It should be no surprise that yesterday they lost mainly due to lack of scoring. We have no Eddie, and no Paul. When Nate gets into the flow of things, and when Paul comes back, this team will be able to actually get some flow and ryhthym just in time for the playoffs. Until then, these games are important almost ONLY for that purpose.
Rajon Rondo
Yeah, we heard you the first time
When you repeat yourself, it’s helpful if you bring a new argument… or point… to the mix.
a healthy celtics squad
can hang with anyone – they would’ve won had #34 been out there last night -
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
lol
Did u see paul play against denver - or in the last month?
Maybe if Paul was healthy and found the fountain of youth, otherwise stop making excuses, they were good enough to get a double digit lead without pierce
Were his isolation plays going to change a 20 pt loss?
i'm still on board
and i still believe –
it’s more fun that way –
they’re good – and will go far
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
They actually were probably better without Pierce last night
The guy cannot move nor shoot with all of the injuries he has right now
Pierce
Would have helped. The C’s got into scoring droughts in the second half that a healthy Pierce could have ended.
When is the last time Pierce was healthy?
That’s the point. Old players, lots of inuries, and it takes them a longer time to recover. That is one of the key reasons this team has no chance at the championship.
"Did u see paul play against denver"
You mean the PIerce that shut down the game’s second or third best player this year during the second half? The guy that blocked several key shots? Yeah, I saw it. Did you?
.I never had faith ...
that this team would be competitive without a healthy KG & Paul. I dont think anyone really did either. Let’s be real here, this team will not, and was never expected to, be competitive without at least it’s stars being healthy. Would the Lakers win with Kobe having KG’s knee or would Cleveland with Lebron? No way, and neither will we. However, if everyone is healthy and KG plays even like he did on the recent West coast trip then this team has a shot.
cheekmeister has a point. there are times you say to yourself- do they care? especially off the boards when 3 guys wait for the ball and 1 opposing guy goes and gets it. but i do think that there are some slim chances that they can put it together and make a run in the playoffs. doc is my main concern- i really don’t think he has a handle on this team. he overerplays some, underplays others, says all the rah rah stuff, but lets the sheeds etal do what they want. letting paul play all the minutes the last game pp played, shows what a hypocrite doc is about resting hurt players and how he can’t or won’t stand up to his vets.
That play last night said it all
When Verajao came in and got the offensive rebound with 3 Celtics standing there and they all just watched him. No one put a body on him — no one moved. Pretty much summed up the season for me.
Not lost faith but common sense dictates they'll need
1-Kevin Garnett to return to the form and force he was two years ago. Without KG, or I should say a close to 100% KG, this team has no , as in zero, nada, chance.
2-Allen and Pierce must be healthy and focused. Pierce has to rebound better and Allen simply must stop over-handling the ball.
3-Rasheed must stay on the post for the most part and show signs that he wants to play defense. That play last night when he didn’t move in to take a charge against James spoke volumes about his committment.
4-Big Baby has to relocate the jump shot he had last year and stop trying to force everything around the basket.
5-Daniels and Tony Allen need to find a mid-range jump shot. The NBA game has changed and the Celtics have way too many non-shooters. Teams are playing off half the guys on the roster.
6-Much as I disliked the trade and the clown that has been Nate Robinson, he needs to assume the back-up point guard role before Rondo completely breaks down. I don’t know if anyone has noticed, but what game he has does not exactly fit with the way the Celtics play.
And lastly, Ainge had better scour the planet for guys being bought out of their contracts that can help. He didn’t have a lot to work with at the trade deadline unless he wanted to ship out Ray Allen, which I believe would have been a good move if he could have returned Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood. Tyrus Thomas could have been had for expiring contracts and a draft pick, and this is a player who could really help with the C’s most glaring deficiencies. There are others, too. like John Salmons and Sergio Rodriguez. Why? Either he believes in this team or didn’t do a good enough job of helping it with the season getting away from the C’s.
good assessment
agree with your points.
What’s also become very glaring is the lack of people who are an actual threat to score. Daniels and TA are not shooters. They can drive and score in the paint but provide no spacing thereby allowing the defense to sag of them. Same with Rondo.
Even KG isn’t much of a scoring threat this year. In 2008, he was making many of his 18-20 foot shots. This year, very little.
BBD’s offense has evaporated from last year. He’s not making his mid-range jumpers and continuously getting blocked inside.
Sheed’s very good in the post but he doesn’t stay there. It’s not that he has to stop taking 3’s completely but they need to be in the flow of the offense. Last night’s game was a good example. The 3 pointer he made in the 1st half was in the flow of the game. The ones in the second half weren’t.
On top of that, Doc’s warts as a coach are being exposed. Poor player time management, poor in-game management (including time-out usage), poor motivator and poor ability to adjust his game plan to match the other team’s changes.
concur with everything except your comments about trade options.
You are spot on with the point that we don’t have enough perimeter shooters to keep defenses from clogging the paint and waiting on our slashers.
Trading Ray for someone like Butler would not have helped for this year because that would have just exacerbated that deficiency. I’m not saying that wouldn’t have been the right move for the future. But for this year, they could only trade Ray if they got a legitimate shooter back.
Nate needs to prove he can be a perimeter threat that can draw a defender out to contest his 3PT shot or our second team will not be able to function as well as it did in the few games right before Eddie left (the only games all season where we’ve had the full 2nd team lineup of Daniels, House, TA, Sheed & BBD).
Our bench got absolutely murdered by Cleveland’s last night. The +/- differentials for our bench and theirs are brutal.
Right now, unless Ray is on the floor, there is no perimeter threat. And without (a healthy) Paul on the floor teams have no reason not to smother Rajon to keep him from passing to Ray or Ray when he has the ball.
I appreciate the comment
but Caron Butler is a pretty good outside shooter as well as a slasher. He’s not Ray Allen behind the line but he’s no slouch. Couple that with younger legs, more athleticsm, better defense and I’d make that trade straight up. Besides, the Wizards may have bought him out like they did Z. and Ray would be coming back. It was a missed opportunity to say the least.
by lemonade sky on Feb 26, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
No. Butler is a good basketball player. But he's a terrible 3Pt shooter.
Career 3PT% of 31.0%. And this year, only 25.7%. Folks pick on Sheed – but Sheed is like Reggie Lewis compared to Butler.
But I agree WITH a Ray buyout
it would have been a good deal.
Agree
I was all for the Butler -Jamison for Ray Allen trade …especially if Ray could be signed back in green again.
If that trade had happened and we got Ray back ..wow we would of been in alot better shape heading into the playoffs then we are now.
But it didn't happen...
Because the Wiz decided to deal elsewhere. So, I’m not sure why we’re still talking about this.
Solid Here
Anything can happen in the playoffs and we can still win this thing. I agree with many of the posts that the problems we are seeing this year we have not seen in the past two seasons prior. Although we have KG back, he is not 100%. We are also dealing with more injuries this season that the prior two. But for me the main concern is chemistry. Losing Eddie must have affected the team, especially if Ainge, as Eddie told the NY media, told the team two days prior to the trade that they were not trading anyone. Do you think Eddie, like Ray, may have started playing better after the deadline knowing he would not be traded? Maybe the reason he was not having a good season was because the trade deadline loomed over his head? And Wallace is a big concern to me. Last night he looked horrible on defense and could not make a 3 to save his life. He belongs in the post anyway. One of the bloggers was right in saying that he just does not seem to care. I am not going to call for the ghost of Posey, but the locker room was much more cohesive two years ago with Posey, P.J. Brown and House. Veteran guys who knew their roles.
If we go down in the playoffs, it will be because of chemisty and not because of injuries.
Wallace is lazy, out of shape, pathetic. He thought we would be 72-10 with the way he plays come on man……
by Blackberry33 on Feb 27, 2010 12:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
long time to face up the next contenders
we get easy match ups in the next weeks, so we should come together now or never. I hope Nate will be a factor next time, but you can say with Pierce and the other vets are healthy we could make the championship but only if everything went the right way. And with this I mean: Wallace shoots 40+% from 3P, K.G.’s knee is 100+%, Allen and Pierce both play well and the other guys do their roles!
I hope the phrase The condemned live longer becomes true for us otherwise I must delete my signature… (who else can beat the Lakers?)
I asked god and he said: L.A. will lose again next year!! ^_°
We need a stretch of easy games for a change.
We’ve got to let Paul get healthy and for Nate to learn our system.
Yep -- playing bad teams will cure everything
and make some fans think the team really has a chance to win it all
It won't cure everything.
But it can help give you a chance to fix somethings. It can allow you to rest a player to get healthy.
It can allow you to work on fundamentals (setting legal screens!!!) and stabilize rotations so guys finally get used to playing in the right spots with the right fellows. That becomes the challenge for this team right now and I personally will find it interesting to watch and see if they can overcome these hurdles.
But if you don’t want to see if they can do that, you don’t have to watch. See you next year!
And 1
Note that some of those “illegal” screens were not illegal. Refs sucked last night, sucked real bad. It started in Q1 with that non-travel travel call on KG. The idiot ref saw his feet move a lot, and did not bother to note that most of those steps happened BEFORE he caught the ball. And it went on like that for the whole game… incompetent officiating, for both sides, though the Cs caught the brunt of it.
not only the Refs!
Doc should sit Rondo in the 3rd – Cavs did a lot of adjustments against him over the second half and Rondo also was tired at the end, shot an airball and passed slappy. Sure the Refs blowed ugly calls but not only on our site. Doc did a mistake and thats why we lost!
I asked god and he said: L.A. will lose again next year!! ^_°
In Reality
Not losing faith….for the simple fact that injuries can happen (lebron could go down with a broken leg, Dwight could get suspend for using HGH, Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford could get hurt)….however The reality of the happening, is very doubtful.
What is reality, is that this Celtics team has yet to play 48 minutes of good basketball since Christmas!
In order to win it all you have to be able to play 48 minutes of great basketball for at least 4 games. we havent done that since Christmas.
Danny didn’t do enough during the deadline…..we’ve got an expiring in TA and Scal, and they didn’t get traded, I feel we could have gotten something in return that would have helped.
Also, everybody keeps saying wait until the playoffs, when we have everybody back.
How can people ignore whats been going on all season, and assume everyone one will magically become healthy. How do you ignore the fact that one of our guys is always getting hurt?
Why is it assumed that no one will be hurt come playoff time? If we are realistic, and follow the pattern of this 2009-2010 season of the Celtics so far, There’s an above average chance that there will be a rotation guy thats hurt.
Like i said im not losing faith, because injuries happen, Lebron could go down, Dwight could go down, Joe Johnson could go down.
Hope not lost, but....
The reality of the situation is rather bleak at the moment. Leading into this game I was encouaraged by the C’s recent improved play. Maybe it was all just smoke and mirrors. If you look at the box scores from the last few games you’ll notice the trend of the C’s to struggle scoring in the 2nd half, particularly the 4th quarter, still exisisted. They just played better “D”, and therfore were able to pull out a few wins.
I was going to post after the game last night, but was so pissed off, I figured it was better to not post. It most likely would have been nothing more than a profanity laced tirade not fit for these pages. Me and a few buddies from work were talking about the game, and just can’t seem to get over how they can go from world beaters one half to complete chumps the next half. This is not anything new either. Maybe at this point its more of a mental block than anything. Once they saw their lead dwindling they lost confidence and knew what was coming. This is sad news for a team that was once so mentally strong.
My hope, what little of it there is left, is that they can somehow get over this mental block.. To me it seems obvious they still have the talent to compete. If they did not have the talent, they wouldn’t be getting these leads in the first place. They just need to find some way to believe in themselves once again. They talk a good game, but I don’t buy it. They look mentally crushed to me. If they can get back that swagger I think that they still could pull this off.
My Mind is telling me no...
From everything I’ve seen from this team I should expect a 2nd round exit in the playoffs.
However, I hold out hope that KG will continue to improve, Pierce will be completely healthy by playoff time, no one else gets injured, Nate will realize that he is here to score and we get back to playing championship defense.
This year I had the same feelings about the Pats and the Sox. I believed that once they were in the playoffs they would flip a switch and play better. Both teams proved to be the teams that they showed they were during the regular season. If the C’s don’t get hot to end the season I wouldn’t be shocked if they are the 4 seed and have trouble getting out of the first round.
Still got faith
As long as my prescription keeps getting filled, my outlook is upbeat. Seriously, last night’s 2nd half was demoralizing for sure, but I think that this team is slowly finding its legs. With all of the injuries and new faces, there’s been very little time for ubuntu to gel. If this team can just catch a break of more than a week with everyone healthy, then I believe we’ll be in good shape for the playoffs. That’s a big “if”, of course, the way this season has gone so far. Maybe it’s time to rehire the old Lucky? Get Cous back in the booth?
by Hal Jordan on Feb 26, 2010 9:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I've Lost Faith in the Entire Organization
I’ve said on several occasions that this is 1988 all over again but it’s worse than that. At least those Celtics teams had Reggie Lewis until his tragic death.
This Celtics team has no one. Rondo is fun to watch but he is terribly inconsistent, as last night’s game showed. Besides, Sherman Douglas was fun to watch too. Perkins is an Oaf who can’t make free throws or guard anyone quicker than Shaq. The rest of the roster is not worth discussing. The do not have any bench player even vaguely as good as Delonte West— or JJ Hickson for that matter.
The organization seems paralyzed. They couldn’t trade Ray Allen. Going forward, their best shot at rebuilding would be to convince Garnett to retire. They should also sign and trade Pierce on draft night, and say goodbye to Ray.
But of course they won’t do that. Instead, the team’s PR staff and their allies in the Boston press will continue to recite the party line: “We can still be a force if everyone is healthy.” That’s how they plan to sell tickets.
They can’t be a force. It’s delusional and dishonest. Ainge is a smart cookie who knows perfectly well what is going on. They bought a championship by selling off their youth, and now it’s time to suffer the consequences.
You do realize?
Even if KG retires his salary stays on the books until the completion of his contract. And nobody is trading for Pierce at 21m for next year.
only if he's deemed medically unable to play
being old and washed up doesn’t count, sorry no dice
He Looks Medically Unable to Me
But even if he isn’t, you need to give his minutes to younger players. They might as well start developing some youth. If that means a few years in the lottery, so be it.
besides....
I still think he has some gas left in that Pinto yet!
Salary CAP FAQ on Retired players
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q54
I’m not entirely sure if I read this right, but I think the only money that counts toward the cap is what we pay him. So if he retired before the season, before his last year kicked in, we’d be off the hook.
Much Rather Have Rondo...
Than Reggie Lewis. In my opinion a good distributing point guard is much better to have than a scorer. We also happen to have Perk.
I'll Take Reggie Lewis, Thank You
Reggie was a great defender, not just a scorer. And he didn’t disappear for half the game like Rondo.
Reggie.
He was better and had yet to peak. Played against beeter players ( MJ, Miller) and held his own. Reggie was only getting better. I hope day I’d say I’d take Rondo but he has a ways to go.
this is just a stupid argument
I’m waiting for someone to say, “Oh yeah? Well I’d rather have George Washington than Barack Obama!”.
Comic relief
You just had to chime in and make sense don’t you? LOL.
One question for those who are saying Reggie was better and had not reached his peak… isn’t that even more the case for Rondo? Rondo’s peak is ahead of him as well. And, are the likes of Kobe and LeBron not quality opposition? How many championship teams did Reggie anchor? I’m just saying…
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
Rondo over Reggie (who was a fine player). It’s not even a tough decision. Rondo does more to alter the course of a game and he’s been quite consistent this year. The idea that Reggie played against better players is ridiculous.
by BouncingBuckeye on Feb 26, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
If rondo is inconsistent, I’d like to know what the rest of the team is??
He came out wanting to win more then anyone on the court, scoring or assisting on the celtics first 21 baskets…he fatigued and the best defensive team in the league keyed in on shutting him down…the results werent pretty
LAst year was rondo “terrible inconsitent” sure….this year he hasnt been
"Lost faith in the organization"
What a bunch of sanctimonious crap. Every franchise has to go through a decline in order to get better (except for the Spurs, it seems). It’s the way the NBA is structured. The organization is “paralyzed”—more sanctimonious pablum—because they there’s not much they can do. At least we won a championship. I’d rather be a Celtics fan than a Bulls fan.
BINGO - Brickman.
Thank you. I’ve been saying this since the lack of trade. Mission Accomplished and the organization is trying to get paid before the fear of the lockout. They could’ve made moves to get younger and more athletic but they decided not too.
Those guys were dead dog tired and missed many point blank shots in the 2nd half. Perk has turned into a “hack a shack” type free thrower. His misses also hurt. This team has nobody to score and counter runs. Ray was so tired he stopped shooting. Garnett was laboring. Who does that leave to score? Rondo and he’s not a scorer. I dont even know waht to say about Big Baby. He misses even when hes left open most of the time know his head is so screwed up from have his shot blocked.
NATE.
That’s way we brought in Nate but we have yet to use him as a pure scorer, the way the Hawks use Crawford. We’ll get there.
That's part of it.
Pierce being out also hurt. Think about it – this team only has 3 legitimate shooters (and Nate isn’t as good a pure shooter as Eddie was – he’s just better than everybody on this team besides Ray and Paul).
But Nate has no idea yet how to work in our offense in order to get good looks coming off our screens – that takes timing and practice with stable units.
So basically, we are operating with just 1/3 of our perimeter shooting capability.
Until Nate gets up to speed and Paul gets healthy, good defenses will sag on the paint and either smother Ray when he has the ball or smother Rondo to keep him from passing to Ray. Exactly what you saw last night in the second half.
Gawd, I wish TA or Rondo had a decent long-range jumper.
I will Accept a warning
There is no reason for you to attempt to kick a fan base while they are down. One of my good friends is a diehard Steelers fan and I would never make fun of him after a loss. Don’t be the guy that derives pleasure from other’s failures.
My Bad
You seemed to be taking enjoyment from the failures of the Celtics. I assumed you were a Steelers fan because of your email. I apologize for the confusion, but at the same time it doesn’t say much for your posts that I assumed you were trolling.
Deja Vu
Outscored 35 to 14 in quarter.. I’ve never seen a team consistently do this? That’s just pride and desire… How do you consistently lose quarters by 20 points? And that’s what worries me the most about this C’s team, you know they’re going to tank a Q by 20 points in every game.
Doc has got to take some of the blame for this…. call a freakin time out….. and play your bench more… bring PP and/or KG off the bench or at least one of them
Avoid the -20pt quarters and C’s have chance to do some damage in the Playoffs… otherwise it’s 1 and out….
by David Henderson on Feb 26, 2010 10:35 AM EST reply actions
First post.
First time poster here at Celtics blog although I have been a member of other Celtics forums for many years. I have also been a rabid Celtics fan since the mid 70’s.
Here’s my take.
I have not lost confidence in this teams ability to beat anybody anywhere PROVIDED they are healthy.
What I am beginning to lose faith in is their ability to field a healthy roster for any length of time. They have played what about 5 games this season with their full compliment of players or their top 8 in the rotation.
They cannot get any consistency going because they cannot field a consistent rotation for more then about a week before someone else goes down and Doc is back to tinkering with the rotation to fill holes rather then to build momentum.
The question becomes will this team as constituted ever be able to play at full strength for any length of time again?
Welcome to the Blog. I agree with your sentiments exactly and all one has to do is look at the first 30 games or so to see this team’s potential with a full squad. Although BBD was down, everyone else was fresh. I do not have an exact time line, but it seemed like things went to pieces when Daniels went down. Once Pierce comes back healthy, then we will at least have the full team for the stretch. We also have two roster spots to fill and should do so soon to get that player(s) in the rotation. We all know what a great pickup PJ Brown was for us during the season.
what doomed our 2009-2010 season?
signing of Rashee ‘no D’ Wallace!!!! we should ask for a refund! ;)
his infectious bad attitude of relaxing in the regular season and just wait for the playoffs shouldn’t have been allowed into the CELTICS system…
cancer….poison….imo.
Trying to make the transition
I’d say I too have lost faith in the Cs ability to field a healthy squad and gather enough momentum and energy to win it. This team is very hard to watch.
I’m still grateful for 2008 and glad we mortgaged the future to witness that title considering only 8 franchises have won a title in the last 30 years.
It would be nice to have a young guy for the transition. Rondo is a nice piece to have, but he isn’t a franchise player. I am now wishing the rumored summer trade between Rondo and Evans happened.
Anyway, doing my best to accept reality and make my own transition – not getting too emotionally tied up in the games (NOT EASY) and trying to enjoy having a better than average team. Before we know it, we’ll be back in the lottery.
One shining moment
This team had it’s one shining moment and because it was against the Lakers, I’ll forgive the Cs if they don’t win another for 15 years. So I too am glad we “mortgaged our future”.
However, I completely disagree that Evans is a franchise guy. He’s a really nice player but it’s way too soon to jump on the bandwagon. Rondo is a better passer, rebounder, and defender than Evans. I know the kid can score but so can TJ Ford.
I think this team has a decent shot at the Finals this year. The Cavs are still give the ball to James and get the hell out of the way which will never work in this league anymore during the playoffs. We had no one to defend him last night which was the big problem. The Magic are good and deep but they still lack heart. I actually think the Hawks have just as good of a chance as the Cs, Cavs, and Magic do of reaching the finals. The problem is we can’t get through all of them and then the Lakers or Mavs.
But jv_squad, you’re like my brother, too much of a downer when reality isn’t that bad.
by overthebackboardooh on Feb 26, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I have more faith than I did 2 weeks ago.
2 weeks ago, I thought I’d never see KG look “good” again. Since then, he’s looked just fine. If we can get that guy out there with a hot-shooting Ray Allen and a healthy Paul Pierce, you never know. We’re looking for the planets to align, a bit, but at least they CAN.
Now if only Doc weren’t the type of coach to run Rondo out there for an entire game despite having JUST gotten Nate Robinson. And if only he could figure out how to control Sheed and get Davis out from under the basket on offense.
USG
And why hasn’t he told Perk and Baby to pass the ball back out to the perimeter after an off rebound when there’s three defenders in the paint? That has been driving me nuts all season.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
If they could just learn to lead with their arms instead of the ball
on the put backs, they get a hell of a lot more foul calls.
I agree. I think KG’s play the last couple of weeks has been promising. Even last night he showed some fluidity and a bit of explosiveness. He needs to keep on this upward trend and Pierce, of course, needs to start regaining his athleticism. I hope he sits another week and has a chance to recuperate. If these two guys return to 86% of what they were, the team has a chance to contend. A few weeks ago, when KG was clearly hobbled, I would have said contention was out of the question.
by BouncingBuckeye on Feb 26, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
interesting!!!
The only thing u forgot was. The awesome FG% from perk 3-5. 8 points = not good enough.
It's hard
but I still have faith. Or maybe it’s not faith, but I’m excited about following this team the rest of the year. At this point, if we get out of the second round, I’d be ecstatic. But I’m trying not to have expectations. I just hope that we can field a full, mostly healthy roster for the playoffs. If we do, then anything can happen.
The other thing is: I don’t want to be a whiner like others here, playing GM, crying about 1988 and who Danny didn’t get—it makes me laugh that people say we would be okay if only we’d gotten Tyrus Thomas or Nocioni—and the decline of the team and how we should have proceeded. We won a championship two years ago, and as frustrating as this season has been, we still have that and we still have most of those guys around, guys that I really like and that play good and fascinating basketball (usually). That’s more than most NBA fans can say about their teams.
One more point to add to the previous post
7) I would fire Doc Rivers now. He has burned out the veteran players over the past three years. His game management skills have always been suspect. And, to this observer, it appears the players are no longer listening to him (and Thibodeau). The one thing they have been consistent about this year is breaking away from game plans and abandoning defensive systems when the other team applies pressure.
Who would I bring in? Someone that has been a head coach in the NBA previously. Doug Collins, Hubie Brown, Avery Johnson, Lawrence Frank, Jeff Van Gundy all come to mind with Van Gundy my choice.
Van Gundy!
That guy couldn’t coach Tiger Woods into a waitress’ panties.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
haha perk will get a T for shoving him
by cheekmeister on Feb 26, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I'd pay to see that.
And not a small amount.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
It has been obvious the team's not a contender for a good while.
Since well before the trade deadline. Danny missed an opportunity to accelerate the rebuild by not using Ray’s expiring. It’s going to be kind of brutal the next two years with KG and Sheed’s albatross contracts on the books as they further decompose.
Meh. It was still worth it for the one championship, but let’s face reality. This team is winning nothing big any time soon. It’ll be lucky to make it to the second round.
s e r e n i t y n o w
James Posey is not walking through that door, fans. Leon Powe is not walking through that door, and Eddie House is not walking through that door.
And if you expect them to walk through that door, they’re going to be playing on different teams.
What we are is old, hobbled, experienced, and we’re going to get healthier.
People don’t realize that, and as soon as they realize those three guys are not coming through that door, the better this blog will be for all of us because there are old men in that (locker) room playing their asses off.
I wish we had $90 million under the salary cap. I wish we could buy the world. We can’t; the only thing we can do is work hard, and all the negativity that’s in this blog sucks.
I’ve been around when Vin Baker was booed. I’ve been around when Antoine Walker was booed. And it stinks.
It makes the greatest blog, greatest posters in the world, lousy.
The only thing that will turn this around is being upbeat and positive like we are in that locker room… and if you think I’m going to succumb to negativity, you’re wrong. You’ve got the wrong guy posting on this board…
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
Thank You!!!!
Can we just post some rendition of Rick’s Rant every time things get out of hand in this forum to bring everyone back to reality.
Because this is exactly what people sound like when things get out of control on here.
The C’s looked terrible in the second half last night. Can’t dispute that. But you cannot base an evaluation of whether or not a team can contend for a championship on two quarters of basketball. Nor can you base it on one game of basketball, five games of basketball, 20 games of basketball…. you get the point.
It takes a whole season to be able to properly evaluate a teams chances at competing for a title, and sometimes teams don’t really find their identity until three quarters of the way through a season.
Do things look peachy for the Celts right now? No.
Do the Celts need the planets to align just so in order to get back to playing championship ball? Yes. But they have 26 games left before the playoffs to work on getting those planets aligned.
Maybe it can’t happen. Maybe it can. All we can do as fans is wait and see.
You can wait and see
or you can take action ..
like the Mavs did picking up Butler and Haywood
like the Cavs did picking up Jamison
like the Bobcats did picking up Tyrus Thomas
like, well … the point is
there are things that should have been done besides trading for a pint-sized player without a true position.
Maybe the fans are supposed to put their collective heads in the sand and trust that everything will be alright because management knows what they are doing. Tell that to people who lost 401k’s. or if you prefer a sports metaphor, tell that to Patriot fans who couldn’t believe the coach traded away too many veterans and that Randy Moss wouldn’t dog it.
by lemonade sky on Feb 26, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Notice...
That I said all we can do as FANS is wait and see.
So, lemonade sky, unless you’re DA in disguise, you couldn’t have taken action. And DA didn’t. And the opportunity to do so has come and passed.
We can sit around all day and theorize about what the C’s should have done, but it’s not going to change the roster. So, we have to accept the roster as it is now (plus one or two FA pickups), and wait and see if this team can pull it together. Teams with far less talent than this squad have won championships in this league.
Amen brother. We are going to ride with these guys to the end. There are going to be some great moments in the playoffs and some horrible ones. Hopefully, we will be at the finish line but in any event it will not be a boring ride.
THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH
TALENTED ENOUGH – and gosh darn it – (if healthy) I LIKE THEIR CHANCES
-
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
There’s a big part of me that has lost faith. However, there’s a small part of me that is still holding out hope. Having said that, I’ll ALWAYS be a fan! Why stop after 35 years of both great and awful times?! On another note, thank goodness it’s a snow day here in Ohio and my son and I don’t have to see any Cavs fans anywhere all day long!
After the KG and Ray trades...
a lot of fans around the country started calling the fanbase here as bandwagoners. I tried told ‘em, you don’t know but there’s always been a lot of C’s fans in Boston it’s just that between the success of the Red Sox and the complete turnaround of the Patriots organization perfectly lining up with the C’s low years in the mid-part of the centry Boston didn’t seem like a basketball town. But it is. They didn’t listen.
Maybe they were right. Maybe I’m focusing on the percentage of people who are fed up with everything green right now. Either way there seems to be way to much hating on this site. If you only love the celtics when they’re ripping up the league during the regular season and looking like one of the top 2 contenders to take it all then maybe you’re not a fan. Maybe you’re just on the wrong wagon.
And how the hell you do you compare Rondo and Reggie Lewis? I miss Reggie too but that’s preposterous loathing right there. Why not complain that Len Bias is gone too? /“Man, Rondo will never live up to Len Bias’ talent. We might as well stop being fans of the Celtics” Go over to Silver Screen and Roll… that’s the blog for the team that’s favored to win. You might be more comfortable over there… you know, until they’re no longer favored.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
Again, stop it
While I agree that some people go overboard with their negativity (just like some people get stupid with their optimism), this Scarlet Letter accusatory nonsense of other fans for not “loving the team” or “being on the wagon” needs to end. It’s petty, whiny, red herring garbage. Do you want a cookie for still thinking they’re going to win this year? Since when is it a freaking prerequisite for being a fan that you have to think your team is going to win a championship every damn year? If that’s all there is to being a fan, then I know three-year-olds who are exactly the kind of fans you’re looking for. There has to be some sort of level of sanity somewhere between the Brickowskis comparing Rondo to Sherman Douglas and the Ray3s writing that playing without the 2010 Pierce is equivalent to the Lakers missing Kobe.
You can either address this teams strengths and shortcomings or you can keep on whining about how not all Celtic fans feel as super cheerful as you after watching their team embarrass themselves against the top competition in the league.
I love this team and I’m going down with the ship. But that doesn’t mean if I see water all around me I can’t say that I think the ship might be sinking.
by joebianca on Feb 26, 2010 2:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don’t consider myself super cheerful about anything. I’m just not throwing a hissy fit calling for the entire roster to be liquidized even though we’re still the three seed (even though we’ve got the 5th best record). It’s panic talk.
You’re no less whiny than me. And I don’t blindly believe that we’re the favorite to win or that we are guaranteed to win it.
And I do comment about things other fans attitude. But yeah, I commented on the extremity of some peoples reactions to last night’s game this time. At no point did I exude optimism about the playoffs. All I really said was that there are bandwagon fans in the mix (and on this site) and that comparing Rondo to Reggie in terms of what this team needs is out of left field.
You call my comment petty but your comment is just a childish insult directed at me followed with a fanboy statement about how great a fan you are.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
Unfortunately
The “fanboy statement” seems necessary if you breathe a word of criticism about the Celts around here, lest you be burned at the stake of “OMG CELTZ RULE WUT R U SAYIN”. And what part of my comment was a “childish insult”?
by joebianca on Feb 28, 2010 9:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Curse of the 'Sheed
70 wins, my foot. Sheed upped the jerk factor on our team significantly. Can’t wait to see what Robinson does. Sheed can play in the post when he wants to but he rarely wants to.. Has he taken one charge this season? He had a chance to last night with LeBron but he bailed on that and committed his usual hacking foul. Meanwhile Leon Powe, who we should have kept returned and immediately starting attacking the basket and getting to the FT line. Boy do we miss that instead of sheed’s 3 point show. Danny made a bunchof great moves in 2007-2008. SInce then he’s batting zero and the trend continues this year. We haven’t made agood pickup since we got PJ Brown for the stretch run. And don’t give me Daneils. the jury is still out on that one. Do I still believe?? Barely. My belief is on life support
He's certainly not the answer.
His +/- rating on committment to the team cause is pretty low.
by lemonade sky on Feb 26, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree
If Sheed was not on the club we would be in even worser shape then we are now since are bigs off the bench would be Baby, Scal and Williams.
PP
Not to be a total jackass, but I do have to say, Jeff, this is one of the silliest posts I’ve ever seen on this blog. Did everyone forget that Marquis had the flu and PP didn’t play. I know the whole, “injuries aren’t an excuse” B.S., but do you think if PP played, things would’ve gone down like they did?
So we beat the Lakers by one without Kobe, but no one wants to mention that fact
But, when the Cavs destroy the Celts by 20, the fact that Pierce did not play is important. Cracks me up.
Let's Cut The "I'm a Better Fan Than You Are" Stuff Please
I watched every one of those 18 consecutive losses. You don’t have to delude yourself to be a fan.
Let’s also stop blaming the complementary players like Sheed or Daniels. They are what they are. The reason this team is headed for the toilet is that Garnett, Pierce and Allen are not close to being the players they were. They are not close to being worth the money they are being paid.
I’d like to make the transition from an old, fading team to a young, up-and-coming team as short as possible. It’s like pulling off adhesive tape. You do it quickly.
There is no room for sentimentality or delay in rebuilding this team. Delay just makes the pain of losing last longer.
The nail has been struck on the head.
There are a couple band-aids that could have been applied this year, but those ships have sailed.
by lemonade sky on Feb 26, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Jeeze that is so useful and helpful ... now that the trading deadline is passed.
And I’m sorry – but did you miss the part about how their simply WEREN’T any decent trades out there that were going to make this team better for now OR the next couple of years?
Please – you talk about facing reality (“you don’t have to delude yourself”). The reality IS and WAS (before this trading deadline) that we are going to have to ride this out until KG’s contract is expiring. There was no trade available that was going to make it any different.
All the C’s could do and can do is to work within the constraints of what they have.
The talent is still there – we see it in glimpses. The health and consistency is not. It may not ever be there again. But it still might pull itself together enough for a run. The probabilities are not in our favor, but they aren’t zero. And there are still a lot of games to play. A lot can happen to any team (good or bad) down the stretch.
The Truth will set you free....
And I’m sorry – but did you miss the part about how their simply WEREN’T any decent trades out there that were going to make this team better for now OR the next couple of years?
Agreed.
I tend to agree but I will reserve judgment like this until the season is over. I also respect your views but curious to read from you what you think are the POSITIVES with this team right now. Even the most pessimistic and cynical among us can acknowledge that the C’s have some good points. What do you think those are?
Why do you lie?
“Garnett, Pierce and Allen are not close to being the players they were” is what you said.
Garnett is not close to what he was in 07, when they won the ring? Not “close”?? Most would say that after his 16th game back from a prolonged recovery time off, he’s doing extremely well. He’s heading straight up, right back to his old form.
Allen is “not close” to the player he was? Since the trading deadline passed, he has played BETTER than he has ever played in his whole life. What are you talking about?
Paul – is the one guy about whom what you said could reasonably be said. He’s the last remaining problem. Will he get it together? I don’t know. You don’t know. There’s a very good chance he will.
Make your (ever-pessimistic) points all you want… just don’t lie.
Vinnie...
… then you must be blind. You don’t see him improving with every game? He’s 16 games in now… heading straight toward 100%. Really, you gotta take those dark glasses off.
yeah, those glasses must be dirty or something
he’s getting closer and closer to his potential…i expect 90% of his 2007 self to be ready in mid April.
Rajon Rondo
Let's just say
..somewhere between 90% and 100%. We don’t know. There is no a priori reason to think he cannot reach 100%… his knee is fixed (they say), and it’s just a matter of getting his game back. It didn’t die. He looks perfectly healthy. Why not?
We’ll see, soon enough.
He had 10 points and 10 rebounds last night
He played a very timid second half. In fact, he was invisible in the second half. He stepped out of the lane at least once and watched Lebron go by him to the basket. I wish the guy was getting better every game, but do not believe he is. I think he is close to the max he is going to bring us and it is going to be one or two good games followed by one or two mediocre. I can live with that, but it won’t be good enough for a championship.
But how do you know?
…that he’s “close to the max”? He’s on a curve heading north… there’s no way to know now, when we are sitting on the leading point of the curve, where it will end up. All we can say is that the direction of the curve is still upward.
And how do you know he will get any better?
His game last night was not as good as his games against the Lakers and Portland. Neither was the game he played against the woeful Knicks.
Now, that's reality!
I’m with you. No kicking the can down the road. The best arguments against trading the big 3 has nothing to do with playing well, all about sentimentality, how some player is a good guy and deserves to stay in Boston. Hey, it’s a free country, they can stay in Boston all they want, but they don’t necessry to have to be on the Celtics.
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Feb 26, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Look At The Standings!
We have the same record as the Hawks, who everyone says are playing great. We have yet to play well and are right there in the top four and are division leaders. The Glass is half full.
A team is only as good as its coach
…Look, you are the coach and with 4 min left in the 3rd qt you take out “Big Ticket”, then with 3 min left in 3rd qt you take out your © Perkins and (F) Daniels. At this time your team is 7 points up. The reserves come in and although working hard loose the lead only to take a 1 point lead at end of 3rd. For the next four and a half min in the 4th ot you have three of your starters on the bench all the while Clevland is dominating your players on the board and in shooting. After sitting a record nine minutes you now decide to bring your three starters back in with a 6 point deficit, and you wonder why they are flat.
I have a lot of respect for Doc Rivers as a man, but as a Coach. NONE… The year Boston won the championship I believe they won because the big three’s desire out weighed Doc’s ability to coach. Last year, Kevin was hurt so I can kinda understand, But this year… no excuses. Looking back at the way we started this season and now how we are playing tells me Doc is no better than Ex-Coach Donlevy with the Clippers. Always had plenty of talent around him but wasn’t able to produce results. I see that in Doc. look back over all the games Boston has lost and I see a pattern, and that pattern is the coaching. Take last nights game as an example. Sitting your three starters out for a nine minutes spand while your lead and team is dwindleing is unacceptable… but look at all the past lost games, that pattern has alway been there. Can we turn things aroundm Yea, we can, but Doc has to do more than pat his players on the butt when they come off the court for doing a terrible job. As a Coach, he needs to get up in Kevins face and tell him to be the man and stop trying to be his buddy, force him to play the kind of ball he’s played all his career and the same thing goes for the rest of the team, especially, especially Pierce. Pierce stop Flooping all the time and maybe you will get the call, and make the lay-up, no excuse you miss so many. Doc, a team is only as good as its Coach, remember that…
by kelvin_jackson on Feb 26, 2010 12:19 PM EST reply actions
Faith?
Lots of different meanings there. Faith that this is still an elite team? Yes. Faith that we can compete in the playoffs? Yes. Faith that we can fall asleep and wake-up as world champions? No. If this team were to win the championship it is going to take a lot of effort, struggle and a little bit of luck. But you can say that about all the contenders, which is why it is fun to watch the playoffs – all the teams are good! It could easily be any of the top 4 teams in the East facing the Western Conference candiate (Lakers or Denver?) Celtics have as good as shot as the Cavs or the Magic, just not a better one.
by funkstarrdeluxe on Feb 26, 2010 12:22 PM EST reply actions
Oh, wow, he's actually supporting his other banned account with an alt.
In a thread in which his former account hadn’t even posted at all.
Impressive.
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Feb 26, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
This is not even close to the team from 08. If everybody is healthy? Now seriously what are the chances of everybody being magically healthy at the same time come playoffs? I consider myself a die hard fan but you have to be realistic. When have you ever seen a team this beat up, playing this bad, ever all win a championship in any sport? Man I hope they prove me to be wrong but I does not look good. With all that said this is still my team and I’ll still be watching and hoping for a miracle. Go Celts!
by blind mello jelly on Feb 26, 2010 12:40 PM EST reply actions
Well...
When have you ever seen a team this beat up, playing this bad, ever all win a championship in any sport?
’95 Rockets?
Not a spot on comparison, but the point is, crazier things have happened.
For the Celtics to reach {forget about winning} the ECF...
It will take a miracle of biblical proportions!
I Will Never Give Up On Celtics!
Any true Celtics fan would never give up on them! Some of these posts make me sick! They had a bad second half…period! If you asked the same question about "Have you given up on the Celts?’ at halftime last night it would have been 100% no we havent. Quit being fairweathered fans and monday morning quarterbacks. These players and coaches and management WANT to win every bit as much as us diehard fans do! Loyal fans stick with thier teams not only during good times but when things look bleak too. Our team needs our support, not our bashing! If you can not be loyal, supportive and enthusiastic about the Celtics than we don’t need you! We have enough Laker, Cavs, Magic and Hawks fans already trashing us! They may have stunk it up last night and played poorly the last month or so, but let me tell you something. You better believe that I will be in front of the tv and listening to game on radio for the rest of their games come hell or high water. And I am a Celtics fan down in GEORGIA! GO CELTS! I believe in you!!!!
I'll be there, too, supporting them, but ....
putting on a blindfold to what’s gone on and continues to do so does not make one any more of a fan than the next person. I’ve cheered for the Celtics for many, many years, through good and bad. Having contrary opinions does not mean one is not a fan.
by lemonade sky on Feb 26, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Here we go again
You can’t be a real Celtics fan unless you have blind faith in the team. You guys need to give it a rest. There are a LOT of fans here who do not believe the Celtics will win it all. That does not make them bad fans. Please knock it off.
THE LAST STAND
The seasons not over yet. We have 26 more games to fix the things that are fixable.
-second half offensive and defensive collapses
-rotation problems (who needs to play with who…Nate!)
-HeAlth
-KG’s confidence on offense…(in the post-hi or low)
-strategy
-umbutu
-sheeds threes instead of post ups
-energy and effort
Things that can’t or won’t be fixed we will have to live with.
-sheeds bad defense and Tech’s
-Glenn can’t dunk or make layups(that’s why he learned how to shoot doc)
-Kg isn’t going to be kg from 07-08
-rondo can’t shoot
-pierce isn’t the dominant scorer he was
-rebounding
With all of this laid out in front of you….what do u think is possible?
I think if we can fix atleast some of the fixable issues mostly the second half collapse’s and stategy adjustments we can win atleast one playoff series as long as it’s not against Atlanta.
We won’t win pretty no matter what. Those days are over for now.
As far as the title hopes go…a few things must happen. Kg has to be more assertive on offense. Post ups, elbow drives, low block turnaround fades. Ray must keep his level of play up. Paul must contribute something…anything. Rondo needs to be a dbl dbl machine, pushing the tempo and challenging the core of the defense’s. Sheed has too give us valuble mins on D. Also sheed must post up second unit players and pass out when the shot isn’t there. Quizy has to score 10plus a night. Perk can’t get T’d up. Nate must score when he is in and doc must make lineup changes. Nate needs more minutes and so does quizy wiith the starters. Do all these things and our title hopes are realistic. Doc Danny thib hope u read this blog!
Solid Analysis
Don’t agree that the rebounding can’t be fixed though… if Doc can convince Sheed to get down low and fight for some boards and Sheldon starts getting a little more PT.
But otherwise I hear ya loud and clear.
If u think being a cetics fan in any state besides mass... Try LA where I live!
I’ve suffered out hear for 12 years….when we won the title it was such sweet vindication! Laker fans said nothing for a like 6months! Best six months ever!
Why lose faith?
You guys got the 2nd best team in the east and maybe 2nd or 3rd best in the NBA. Why lose faith? The Nets should be losing faith. Not Celtics. Can they beat my Cavs? NO. Can they beat the Magic or Hawks? YES!.
My Cavs are terrible against the Bobcats so if the Bocats get the 8th seed. You guys should prey they knock us out and if they do, the Celtics will walk to a Championship. If healthy of course.
The fat lady has not sung yet..........
I always though the outcome of the season would be depend alot on what Ainge did at the trade deadline, since I think we have holes that we needed to remedy on the team that we can not do with just the players on our current roster.
Since no major moves were made at the deadline I was disappointed and do believe the C’s chances to win a title have become much harder, but not yet impossible.
Since Ainge could not add more talent to the team at the trade deadline all hope now falls on signing players via a buyout.
I think we are all set and do not need to add talent at:
Shooting guard with Allen and Robinson
We had a weak spot at point guard but with Robinson signed (a nice move by Ainge) a rotation of Rondo, Robinson and Daniels I think remedy’s that weakness .
I think we are fine at Center with a solid 2 man Rotation of Perk and Rasheed.
At small forward though we are deep with Pierce, Daniels and Allen
it would be nice to sign a player via buy who is a strong, long defender who can guard long, strong wing scorers (who have been killing us this year, like Lebron – Johnson) etc. ) since Daniels lacks the bulk, TA lacks the bulk and length to defend such players effectively and also since Pierce (who has the length and bulk) lacks the foot speed due to do so.
I think the teams biggest problem talent wise lies at the power forward position where we are not getting enough production on offense, defense or on the boards .
With Garnet ailing and lacking his athleticism (potentially for the rest of the season) and Baby in a rut all year and not athletic to begin with, I think the C’s really need to acquire a a long, athletic power forward to give us solid defense, scoring and rebounding at the position that we really currently lack.
I think the power forward position is the biggest team weak spot that must be addressed by Danny ASAP.
If Danny can sign a couple of players via buy out to address these 2 team weak spots I at least think they have ( of course is we stay healthy ) a shot at a title this year.
I hate to quote lebron james but what he said is basketball canon
“It’s not about which teams you beat,‘’ he went on. "It’s about playing well, keeping your momentum up all year, and playing well going into the playoffs.’’
-LBJ
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
Go Somewhere Else
All these so called Celtics fans that have continued to bash the team and have given up, I don’t want to see you at the Victory Parade when we raise Banner 18!!!! We don’t need ya! When someone in your family is struggling you support them and stand behind them , not bash ‘em. Same with our Celt’s!!! I will always believe in the green! Yes, even when things look bleak. There is not one single team, including Hawks (who swept us) that wants to play us in a seven game series! You can take that to the bank!! I bet Red is rollong around in his grave furious at the lack of support and loyalty!
It is NOT bashing the team if you do not believe they are going to win the championship
Please stop this sanctimonius crap about how great a fan you are if you blind faith in the team. So tired of it.
It`s great to ROOT with your heart
It`s not so great to THINK with your heart
So, if I love The Who, and have all my life...
am I not allowed to issue some constructive criticism relating to their Super Bowl Halftime performance?
Am I a “so-called” Who fan if I personally believe that Magic Bus isn’t a good song.
Look, we’re all “real fans” here. We all want the team to win. Some people, like yourself, are for whatever reason, biologically or otherwise, always going to see the cup as half full.
Others are are not always going to have that optimistic of an outlook. It doesn’t mean that they don’t love and care about this team just as much as you do. And for that matter, I’m willing to bet that they cheer just as loud as you when they’re sitting at the Garden supporting their boys, even if they’re down by a longshot.
So if you’re going to continue wasting all of our time by questioning the “fandom” of everyone who utters one bit of criticism about the team, how about you be the one to go somewhere else?
If you’re willing to stop picking fights and actually discuss the merits and chances of this team, then let’s start the discussion.
Nope
Firing Doc is NOT the answer! He is a great coach and is a players coach. We are lucky to have him. There is a fine line in the NBA seperating Championship Teams and Mediocre teams. We are still a Championship Team, we just have to be peaking in the playoffs, that’s all……
YES
Thats the spirit, keep faith Celtic fans.
the future ??
What will we look like in a couple of years? Ainge needs to acquire scoring unless Rondo could rise to Chris Paul level and I don’t see that happening. Trying to keep the faith though…
Don't let your emotions cloud your reason
I posted this as a reply to an upset fan about a million posts ago. Worth saying to everyone else who feels as he does, I think.
Obviously, you’re upset and angry with the team and the universe. But the truth doesn’t change. The regular season does not count. Period. It’s sole purpose is to determine who gets to play ONE more game at home, as opposed to on the road, IF a playoff series reaches 7 games. It could HARDLY be more insignificant. You know that.
The purpose of the regular season is (1) to entertain us, (2) to generate as much income as possible for the NBA, and (3) to give teams a chance to hone their games. That’s it. As everyone knows, the actual championship is determined solely by the playoffs. If I owned an NBA team, that’s what I would tell them. Just use the whole regular season for practice.
Nothing has happened that closes doors. Despite missing Paul and 1/2 Quis and with a brand-new Nate, the Cs dominated the first half. Cavs have their own problems (Shaq and Z = 2 of them.) KG keeps getting better, and just about everybody else on the team is playing better than ever. (Paul is the single exception, at this point.) When it REALLY counts, logic dictates that they will step up. That’s what they’re waiting for.
Take it easy, people. Relax. Wait for the real season.
I have not lost faith, but the fact of the matter is that the Cavs should win the East this year, and they should be better than the Celtics this year. The Celtics barely eliminated the Cavs two years ago when the Celtics were at their peak. Now, we have an even more experienced LJ to deal with; he also has a deeper and more talented team. So -they should beat us. But that does not necessarily mean they will come playoff time. Did people honestly expect the Magic to knock off the Cavs last year? Anything can happen at the upper level
You cannot use past tense
…for events that have not happened yet.
TRADE RAY?
If the Celtics had traded Ray Allen away, they would have been waving the white flag on this season. There is NO WAY montae ellis would come right in and help this team win it all. Montae Ellis is the biggest BALL-HOG the NBA has ever seen.
I know you Celtic fans are mad but Ray is the best player on the team. Don’t be silly.
As George Karl said
a few days ago in regard to the chances of the C’s winning the title this year: “Anyone who overlooks this team is nuts.”
very happy the C's are not peaking on Feb 26
reading some of these whines is almost as bad as listening to the pinheads
on WEEI. I am a huge C’s fan, and I bet on Cleveland last night.
C YOU in the Playoffs when it COUNTS.
no vinnie, no
you would not be repeating the same mantra if the C’s had lost all 4 quarters, as everybody including myself had expected.
just because you repeat over, and over and over again that the C’s are done, does not mean it is fact!! the C’s played great for 3 1/2 quarters in a game without their highest scorer…a game nobody expected them to even stay competitive in, much less win!
we all expected a loss to Cleveland!…it doesn’t mean that the Celtics are done. AND it certainly doesn’t mean that constant squawking will persuade everybody to jump ship all at once.
the disconnect here is that even snowball, myself, and many others FULLY EXPECTED the C’s would lose last night. the difference is that we aren’t reading too much into this loss like you are. you are conflating the emotions of losing a halftime lead with the logic of making predictions from regular season games. that shouldn’t be done.
remember spurs-cavs 2007? who sweeped the regular season series?…and who won the championship? hmm? even last year, who won the championship after losing twice to orlando in the regular season?
i’m not going to pretend that this team doesn’t have big problems later in games, but I’m not going to just brainlessy squawk with ten words or less without giving some analysis of the problems with this team
Rajon Rondo
Read my posts again
It has little to do with last night’s game. I am reading into the 13-15 record over the last 28 games, the 1-8 record at home versus the top teams, and the 3-11 record against Denver, Dallas, Atlanta, Orlando, and Cleveland. I too thought they would lose last night. However, it is the way they lost, and the way they have lsot 11 games since Christmas — giving up double-digit leads.
I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT I AM JUST REALISTIC ABOUT OUR CHANCES
Only a MIRACLE, MIRACLE, MIRACLE can give us the18th banner..
In Boxing terms...
2008 Celtics = Mike Tyson of 1988
2010 Celtics = Evander Holyfield of 2005
WHAT?
My cavs took Boston to 7 in 08 and they’re Mike Tyson? NO WAY. Boston of 08 was more like Lennox Lewis in his title run and the 2010 Celtics are like…… The Holyfield of 2010. LoL
246 comments and I haven't read one
Health! Give me good health and we have a shot.
20 Games of everyone healthy and we can play with anyone.
If we’re not healthy, the fork has been placed in us.
I think the Celtics are the second best team in the Eastern Conference behind Cleveland.
I’m not convinced that they can beat a healthy + in form Cavaliers side but I like the Celtics chances against Orlando and/or Atlanta.
Orlando — because Vince + Nelson are struggling. If they find their form, I’ll become very worried about Orlando but for the time being I like the Celtics chances against the Magic so long as they’re reasonably healthy. The main difference between Orlando’s players indifferent form and the Celtics player’s struggles with form is that Orlando’s duo haven’t had any prolonged period of good play this season whereas the Celtics’ players have.
Atlanta — I don’t think they’re an elite team. They are a 50-55 win team that are capable of beating any team in the league in the playoffs but are incapable of keeping it up for four rounds. I don’t think they are consistent enough defensively particularly their big men Josh Smith and Al Horford. And offensively, I think they lack a legitimate second scoring option and that that flaw, as it has done for the last three years, will derail their offense when matched against an elite defensive opponent.
Each series would be a dogfight (I think the Hawks series would go 7, Orlando 6 or 7) but I think Boston should be the favourite heading into both series.
The Celtics simply have more talent than either team.
celtics
I dont think Ray is the problem, him and Rondo are the only ones out there busting there ass. Pierce is hurt, KG still is not full strenth, and is out of condition. So is Big Baby. Tony Allen is out of shape also. All these guys have been hurt some of the year, you dont get that back in 5 or 10 games. And whats holding Doc up from playing Sheldon? He has shown some good minutes. Doc also has to stop verbally abusing the team, about playing harder, they are just not ready yet to go 4 quarters, and pushing them is going to reinjure one or more of them. They are professionals, they know what has to be done. Even Lebron said after last nights game, he wouldnt put much into their win.
Oh Boy, time for another topic
This has gone into a circular spin. The existentialists – who watched last night and other recent games – proclaim we’re toast. The futurists say this isn’t the team that will appear for the playoffs, a better team is molting (I’m in this camp). At this point both are right…..or both are wrong. By mid June the argument can declare a winner. But up above no one seems to realize that their adversary is in a different time & space.
Time to post another subject
Well whadaya know: Celts are #2
…in the East, #3 in the whole NBA, in the Lost column. Overnight.
And Cavs were pushed into overtime tonight by the Raptors, playing without Bosh. Yes, the Raptors… the very team of which the Cs usually make mincemeat. Without Bosh.
Helps to have some perspective. It’s way, WAY too early to be pronouncing Doomsday. Let’s just kick back and wait. The real season is still a month and a half away.
the future cont.
Still keeping the faith??? Another thing that crossed my mind is what if Ainge had traded Ray say for Ellis. Does that make us better now? Questionable. Better for the future. Sure but how much better? What do we win in the future with a Rondo/Ellis core? We will only return to elite status if Rondo can make a quantum leap in his shooting, thus furthering his impact on games, or if Ainge can wiggle his way into a high lottery pick and said pick turns into a top 3 talent / impact player. Hence, the Tyreke Evans discussions last June. A third way would be if Danny can sign an impact talent that somehow had gotten to free agency and Danny had the cap space to make him a godfather offer. It is about talent and I’m sure Danny is always on the prowl for said talent and ways to eventually acquire it. A lot of times those avenues dry up and you’re stuck with what you have. It’s a tough league. Not many teams are in a position to win. I believe Danny is aiming for Durant. Ultimately, his fortune may have to come from the draft.
in case anyone is wondering
I did clearly stir the pot here in hopes of generating a discussion
however, there is no hidden “loss of faith” on my part, despite what DRJ1 might want to believe
I answered B in the poll above and I would have done the same a week or two or 5 ago. If everything falls right, we’ve got as much of a chance as anyone. But a lot could go wrong and it would make me feel a lot more comfortable if they would right the ship sooner rather than later
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
At this point...
Everyone’s overrating the regular season. It’s become almost too obvious that Boston is saving their energy for the stretch run/playoffs. It’s certainly not a tactic that I’d like to see, but clearly we know that they can beat anybody when they turn it on, and it’s clear now that they have control of when they turn it on. It has to be a crucial statement game for them to actually come out ready to win and sustain that effort. Once the Cavs started charging at our lead, Boston just gave them the green light to take it.
Sure, we might be the third seed in the playoffs. Maybe the fourth. But the Celtics are aware of when they have to win and how. They’re a different team than ‘08, and they’ve realized that they can’t come out and win every single night.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn’t matter. I’m amphibious." -- Charles Shackleford
by Celticsfanatic on Feb 27, 2010 10:13 AM EST reply actions
Saving energy.....
Celticsfanatic, I think it’s also possible that they have to play it this way, given their collective age now. If they tried going wire to wire, pedal to the metal, they’d probably be fried come the start of the playoffs. One x – factor I think is Rasheed. I know everyone is hating on him now and he surely seems to be coasting but come playoff time I’m thinking / hoping he’ll flip a switch and start to really play once everything is on the line. If he starts staying down on the box or starts consistently hitting his threes it would bring a whole new dynamic to the C’s and their possibilities of going a long ways. I think, like it or not, he’s the one guy who’s play could change the direction we are trending towards.
Why would Joe Johnson want to come back here, especially since he’s already been through this situation once before (the Johnson/Boris Diaw/(Al Horford)/Robin Lopez deal between the Phoenix Suns and Atlanta Hawks back in 2005)? Notice I put Horford in parentheses because the Hawks kept that pick.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Mar 8, 2010 11:43 PM EST reply actions
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