Locker Room Concerns?
by Jeff Clark on Feb 3, 2010 8:42 AM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
Email
PrintWith very few exceptions, you typically hear the party line coming out of the Celtics' locker room. The stories are all about camaraderie and team focus. They have catchy slogans like Ubuntu or "team ego" or "we not me" (if you count KG's commercials).
That's why it is so surprising when you hear anyone speak about cracks in that veneer. Then again, given the team's record over the last several weeks, perhaps not.
Rondo is quoted extensively in Bulpett's article this morning wondering aloud about people's motivations and agendas:
"We are getting bored with it some," he said, "but I think it’s a little bit of different agendas maybe creeping in. It just all depends. You know, I think if we all had the right spirit as far as one goal, one thing in common, I think we’d be a lot better."
"It’s a different team this year," Rondo said then. "That’s our problem. A couple of years ago, we didn’t have the same team. We had the same main guys, but it’s still a team effort, from the first guy to the 15th guy."
"I can’t really elaborate on it too much, but I think we’ve just got to be a team with no agendas," Rondo said. "We’ve got to play unselfish, you know? That’s on defense and offense. You’ve got to want the best for the next man out there regardless if you’re in the game playing well or you’re out of the game not playing well."
Interesting and concerning comments to say the least.
Note: This isn't the first time Rondo has tried to challenge his teammates. In the playoffs last year, he reportedly led a group of younger players to speak out against the veterans. He seems like a quiet guy, but he certainly lacks nothing in terms of confidence. Hopefully the buttons he's trying to push now will be more effective than that last meeting.
220 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
last year
wasn’t there a report that Rondo led some of the younger players to speak out against the veterans? anyone have a link to that so I can refresh my memory? thanks
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
I don't like that Rondo calls him Doc
I’m sure it’s casual enough for them to do so…But IMO, he should be calling him ‘Coach’ or ‘Coach Rivers’. More of a sign of respect that way if you ask me. At least in interviews, if nothing else.
Yeah probably
And I don’t mind it as much with KG, Paul, Ray, etc. But for some reason, with Rondo still being a young, up and coming player, I’d just feel better about him calling Doc Coach or Coach Rivers…I’m big on respect and I just feel like Rondo, Perk, TA, Walker, all the still young guys should be calling him Coach. More from personal experience, I guess. Oh well, I’m making something out of absolutely nothing haha.
Actually that is the kind of thing that is important within the locker room
It has to be consistent. If only ‘some’ guys call him Doc – hence having a peer-relationship with him, while other’s call him ‘Coach Rivers’, then that is a subtle fracture in ‘team’.
Doc probably insists that ALL the guys call him Doc.
I am not surprised...
…ever since that reported rift between “old” and “young” form last season we just haven`t been playing like a true team. Something is going on and we can see it in our performances. The ubuntu is just a word now, in the first seassn we actually lived it and played it!
one word...
POSEY
i think he’s the glue and the locker room leader during our championship year in 07…
posey is not coming back through that door.
people really need to move on. if he wanted to be here, he would’ve resigned.
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
While moving on isn't a bad idea,
that’s not a fair comment either.
For what’s likely going to be the guy’s last long-term contract in the NBA, he got an offer that blew what the Celtics had out of the water. He’s not some sellout because the team didn’t or couldn’t (don’t care which for the purposes of this discussion, and I’m not getting into the blame game here) pony up.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Feb 3, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
i still miss posey...
i both love him and hate him for leaving. kinda like an old girlfriend haha. i always said if i were a max contract player on that team i would have taken less for him to stay….i still kind of cant get over it.
i've moved on...
was just stating an opinion that made the chemistry of the 07 team great… chill man!
stay within your roles
in other words,Rondo defends when he wants to,Sheed never wants to,Perk wants to be McHale and Pierce wants to be the point at crunchtime..get back to what works.
i agree totally
also i dont think sheed is as good of a defender as i hear on tv. i often notice he rarely rotates to help on penetration. he gets caught on other players or with his back turned a lot…and some times hes flat out lazy. i wanna see more of sheldon williams, i like his game.
Albeit disheartening,
well (and amusingly) said, clover.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Feb 3, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Call me crazy
but I don’t know how laughable I find this.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Feb 3, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
Not really sure what anyone’s agenda would be besides a championship at this point.
Ray and Tony are the only rotation players that expire this year so I don’t really think contracts are the thing. Anyone have any theories. The young/old rift rearing his head again is the only thing I can come up with.
Another thing is: sometimes with struggling for a month or so, players start to look in weird places to put the blame. “winning cures everything” is a very true statement.
I think it's been clear since the '08-'09 season
That certain bets aren’t quite ready to give up touches and credit at the rate at which younger players deserve it.
Does this kid no the term ' no comment '
I can see what Doc was talking about. I love RR but, he thinks he’s KG and he’s not.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
i don't think it's that...
KG is certainly one that’s never had an ubuntu problem. I don’t think RR thinks he’s KG, but I thinks he’s at least as valuable as Pierce (which he is), but Pierce still considers it the “big 3 plus two” and still refers to Rondo’s time in the future tense, and as still growing up. Well, he is growing up, but his time as at least equal to every other team member is now, and Doc and Pierce need to grow up and acknowledge that.
What I meant was
he thinks his opinion should be considered in the same manner as KGs and it shouldn’t be. I would much rather hear no comment from the young PG. Anyway in regards to Paul he always goes out of his way to prop up Rondo. So I deny your insinuation with regard to Paul and Doc who I think know the team much better than you and I.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
I can't put my finger on it...
…but I think Rondo is at the root of a lot of this. I think he is more stat driven than ANYBODY on that team. I think people might be starting to complain about that as much as anything. If I were to guess I would say it is Ray (I feel like there is tension there)…
stat driven?
Rondo tries to get the the Big 3 an equal number of touches… is that considered stat driven or is it just keeping people happy? Rondo goes for rebounds when Doc’s policy is for the guards to get back… is that considered stat driven or is it acknowledging that this team has a rebound problem? Rondo gives up the ball when he easily could have finished at the rim… is that considered stat driven or is it just trying to keep his teammates involved? Rondo gambles for the steal… is that considered stat driven or just that he’s played that way all his life?
That's sort of my take w/o any facts as well.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Nothing there
Rondo’s young, he’s getting pumped for answers on why the team isn’t on championship arc and you run out of “the shots aren’t falling”, “we’ve got to protect the ball”, etc. So he says something like this and it’s “concerning” and gets over-analyzed.
What is wrong is that key snipers aren’t scoring and the defense is not being sustained for long enough periods. Age, coaching, attitiude…maybe one, maybe all. Even Rondo naps on defense at times so I don’t think there are any “locker room” issues. This locker is as good as it gets.
Sheed and BBD the problem??
Just a guess but I think the problem may rest with Sheed and possibly BBD. Sheed plays inspired much of the time and does not seem to make an effort when it counts. He is way too laid back for this team and I sense he does not have the same work ethic as many of the rest of the players. BBD was likely not well received after getting injured off the court to start the season and perhaps he is griping about minutes since he is playing behind Sheed in the rotation.
One other thing. I cannot imagine Perk is thrilled with how Doc often sits him during crucial stretches, especially in the 4th Q, in favor of Sheed. Throw in the frustration with injuries and you have a recipe for discord.
correction
I mean to say he plays “uninspired” at times. Sorry.
Age, coaching, attitude
All three are right, and the list is probably even longer.
It´s foolish to think that all we have to do is pull a string or push a button, and our problems will magically disappear.
Our real problem is a synergy effect of several factors, and it´s a problem mankind doesn´t have a term for, yet.
If you´d ask me, we should call it “The Sheed Effect”…
agree with Wildblu1
This is over-blown.
Health and simple execution are the only real problems here.
My impressions
I don’t think this is a young and old thing. Rondo pointed out that they need unity from all 15 guys and that theyy all have to be on the same page if “You’ve got to want the best for the next man out there regardless if you’re in the game playing well or you’re out of the game not playing well.”
This sounds like the guys who aren’t getting playing time or touches are the ones who are not buying in. For some reason, Big Baby immediatly jumped into my mind when I read this.
On the other hand, I will say It always seems to me that Rondo and Ray don’t get along (at least not on the court).
yah, same here
big baby was the first guy I thought of… I’d say rasheed but he only came here to win a title and play with this talented team so I have a hard time imagining his spirits have changed considering he gets consistent playing time.
baby on the other hand probably gets a decent amount of chiding from this teammates cuz frankly, he has been pretty bad this year.
hooray for speculation!
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
If Rondo thought that commenting
on the 10th guy on team as a reason for their struggles I have to question his intelligence. The issue lies at the starters feet.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
This is what I thought too.
BBD’s playing time has dropped over the last few games, and he’s always seemed a bit more self centered than anyone else.
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
He has to be self centered...
…to some extent. Name any effective leader who is somewhat not self-centered.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
It's not all black-and-white
Which is what Rondo was alluding to when he said it was hard to put your finger on the problem. It’s more than just stats and expiring contracts. There’s an overall carelessness about this year’s team that manifests itself in turnovers, giving offensive rebounds and sloppy play.
Possibly some players are getting their noses twisted because of the increased attention and praise heaped on Rondo. If you watch the national broadcasts, you’ll hear announcers describing Rondo as the motor that makes this team go and as important as any other guy to the team’s success.
Those announcers are right and it may be hard for some players to accept that. I don’t know that for a fact, but Rondo seems to feel there are some underlying issues. If one player feels that, it would be naive to think there are not others.
When Tony Parker was coming into his own with the Spurs, Tim Duncan and the rest of the team had to accept the fact he was on his way to becoming a star and live with less attention on them. I wonder if this has something to do with the way the C’s are coached. It is undeniable Doc caters to his stars in a way that Pop never does with the Spurs.
I think it was really quite clever the way Rondo has, in effect, called out his teammates without actually naming names. It is easy to say we all have to look in the mirror but doing it is another matter. It’s human nature to believe someone else is the problem. Perhaps now the players will actually face that mirror and evaluate their own committment to the team.
Lastly, it’s so obvious the current Celtics are a much different team emotionally than the one from two years ago, or even last year’s model. Compare this team’s body language to that of other teams I’ve watched this year and the comparison is not favorable. You look at the Cavaliers, Lakers, Nuggets, and lesser teams like the Bobcats and Thunder and you see teams that are playing with a common goal. Unless we start to see more of that from the Celtics, they will not go far this year.
by lemonade sky on Feb 3, 2010 8:34 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
eh
I’m not sure it looks like the Lakers have a common goal like you say. Kobe and Pau clearly can’t stand each other and Pau’s recent quotes in the media show that he is annoyed that he isn’t getting more touches. To act like we are the only locker room with issues is questionable.
And the Cavs were/are all best buds and got picked apart by Orlando last year. I’m not so sure having a great locker room is essential to winning a championship.
Herald article
Link to the article in the Herald. There’s a couple more quotes from Rondo and Perkins.
Sheed
He might be the difference in regards to team chemistry. He does look aloof at times and seem to strive on doing it his way without caring about repercussions.
Rasheed is my guess
he waves on defense
he plays on the perimeter, and so is never in position to rebound
not disciplined, or else the coaches want him doing that stuff — possible, I guess
no rebounding is biggest trouble on this team. that is position and effort. even Perk has not been his usual self
2nd biggest problem is tired legs and people pacing themselves
either the bench steps up, or no championship
so no sense trying to hide the bench
play them
by Frank Malzone on Feb 3, 2010 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
I don't even think Sheed
cares enough to complain about touches. So no I don’t think it’s him.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
problem is
he doesn’t care enough to play D either
Disagree
Yes Sheed has problems on defense guarding quick athletic big men (who does not on our team) after all he is 35 and not a athletic player to begin with.
But he is in the low post one of our best low post power defenders since he has great length and bulk to out muscle his opponents.
Just look last week how well he played Gasol, Bynum and especially Howard as proof.
I think Sheed has been more
than serviceable as a low post defender this season. In fact in some cases better than KG who obviously has been dealing with various injuries.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Any complaint that focuses on our D is just plain wrong.
It is a waste of time to criticize the defensive play of any of our significant minutes guys.
This team has been rated #1 or #2 in scoring defense ALL SEASON LONG.
Defense is NOT the problem.
Sheed has been on the floor a ton of minutes. If he were the crappy defensive player that some of you seem to think, there is no way we would be able to hold that ranking. Especially since so many of the bloggers here seem to think Ray is an even worse defensive liability.
Ridiculous. I so tired of people not bothering to actually look at the numbers before they post these things.
So all Doc's talk about the Cs not getting the important stops...
was ‘just plain wrong’?
Oh.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
I would call it more 'misdirecting' than 'wrong'
Ultimately, yeah, it is better to get EVERY defensive stop. If your offense isn’t working, then yah – you HAVE to stop them.
And stops down the stretch are highly visible and what the media will always want to talk about.
But as far as winning goes? Its all about points scored and points surrendered – no matter when they occur in the game. The first basket counts just as much as the last one.
Defense NOT a problem?
Really? If you’re ahead by double digits in 4Q and the other team beats you, is it possible, just a teeny bit possible that defense was a problem when it counted the most?
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
It s a problem because YOU DIDN"T SCORE MORE POINTS
When you hold the Lakers to 13 points under their scoring average you should win. We lost because we scored even fewer points.
It doesn’t matter that they scored more points than you down the last 5 minutes. It matters that they outscored you for the whole game.
Look at the numbers. We only give up 93.7 points per game! That is the BEST in the NBA. And that is holding up against even the GOOD teams. But we are only scoring 99.1 ppg – completely mediocre. And that number is NOT holding up against the better teams.
Our problems are objectively and measurably on OFFENSE.
You have it so backwards it's not even funny :)
"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." Aaron Levenstein
If I am ahead by double digits, and my defense is good, assuming I never score a single point the rest of the game, but I am defensively solid enough to prevent you from scoring less than the lead I have, I win. What you’re saying only works if the other team was ahead and you don’t score. Even if you are successful in preventing them from scoring, they win because they were ahead.
Now, you win a game by scoring more points than your opponent. Let’s say LA beats Boston by a score of 89-88, Boston can brag about holding LA to less than 90 points, but Boston still lost. Boston can also spin the story (like you’re doing) by saying they just need more offense. But guess what? The flip side of that coin is, Boston’s loss is not just a matter of lack of offense, but better defense played by LA. Boston would have instant offense if LA stops playing good defense.
So quit hiding behind statistics and see the problem for what it is. After all, the goal is to win, not merely hold teams to the lowest point possible while being held to even fewer points by your opponent.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm hiding behind statistics when I point out you have to score more than you give up to win?
Wow. That is so beyond possibly responding to.
You're hiding behind stats to say defense is NOT the problem
I ask again, if you’re ahead in 4Q and the other team wins, is your defense not an issue? Quoting NBA stats to show that the Cs are the best defensive team, or are holding opponents to fewest points misses the point.
They had the lead, even if their offense is shot, they can still win by solid defense and just run out the clock.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
No kidding, Sherlock!
You’re the master of stating the OBVIOUS!!!
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
You can’t “just run out the clock” in basketball. It doesn’t work like that.
You know nothing about basketball. I award you no points. And may god have mercy on your soul.
Yes you can
It works like this.
I freely admit that you’re smarter than me in every possible way, including basketball, nor am I looking for any points from you or anybody. I am just a fan sharing my opinion sliek most people here. This is not a mensa gathering. And thanks for your prayers. My soul appreciates it.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Wow. Awesome link. To bad you can intentionally foul in basketball to prevent that strategy from working.
Especially when your team is not good at hitting free throws. Boston is 19th in the league.
Give it up Idiot. You’re wrong on all accounts.
Ha!
I have no problem being wrong on all accounts. Remember I am truly The Village Idiot? Just because you can’t think or see beyond the obvious does not mean others can’t.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
easy peasy
The Village Idiot asks:
if you’re ahead in 4Q and the other team wins, is your defense not an issue?
As adubson points out, this is not football and outside of a 24 second shot clock you are not allowed to play just defense or offense. You play both.
Thus in whatever time remains you have to score more than your opponent does (netting whatever differential you started with).
So, if you are up by 5 to start the 4Q, you have to score within that of your opponent in the last 12 minutes of the game.
If you give up 6 pts and only score 1, then I think I’d have to go with … offense being the problem.
If you give up 40 points and score only 35, then I would say that defense was the problem.
Overall, the reality is that we are scoring on average just under 25 pts per quarter and giving up 23.5 pts per quarter. The latter is best in the NBA. There’s not a lot of margin for improving it.
There is a lot of room for improving the offense.
As adubson points out, this is not football and outside of a 24 second shot clock you are not allowed to play just defense or offense. You play both.
I am shocked, just shocked to learn there is such a thing as a 24 sec clock in pro basketball. LOL. I mean i may be an idiot, but still… :)
I think that you are purposefully choosing not to understand me for whatever reasons. But let’s pretend we both know the basics of basketball (24 sec clock included :). Back to my point… My position is… If the Cs are sitting on a double digit lead into the 4Q, and they lost the game, that means they did not play good enough defense. You on the other hand claim that defense is not the problem, but its rather offense. But they can score a lot, but if their opponents outscore them more than the differential, the Cs still lose. So i ask you, how can it be offense that’s the problem?
I say the Cs can ride out the clock by playing solid defense. LA has to score in 24 secs or they have to turn the ball over to the Cs, and vice versa. If LA plays solid defense and the Cs can’t score, LA gets the ball back. This goes back and forth with neither team scoring any further points, then the team that had the lead wins. Now, where’s the confusion?
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
"purposefully choosing not to understand"
I think at this point you’ve lived up to your name enough that it’s pretty clear who that line applies to.
I don’t think it can be explained any more clearly than I did above.
You are posing the question of whether it is a defense or offense problem within a small box, ignoring the larger box in which that one sits.
You now want to tighten the box to us a ‘double digit’ lead (as opposed to just ‘a lead’). Fine. Change the above illustration to use 10 pts instead of 5. The same answers apply.
Of course then you will push it to a 20 pt lead to start the 4th. Or a 30 pt lead. Now we are in the area where the raw total is on the order of what makes for a good/bad quarter’s worth of scoring so yeah at that size it can ONLY be a defensive problem no matter if you don’t score ANY points offensively. That is, of course, just silly.
It all ignores the fact that points scored in the first period count just as much as points scored in the fourth. Basketball is a game of runs. Teams go on 10-2 or bigger runs at any point during the game. Any one 12 minute segment can swing wildly for either team. That’s why you play 48 minutes.
And the fact is, for 48 minutes of play, there is NO WAY you can claim with any credibility that the Celtics have had ‘defensive problems’. They are the best defense in the NBA at this point.
If there are problems on offense...
Look no further than the guy who has lost his legs and can’t hit his 3s anymore…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
mmmmm is right
Our defence is good enough. Using that recent Lakers game as an example, we played great D in the last quarter, but COULD NOT find a way to score. Eventually, great offensive players like Kobe will make enough baskets against any defence.
How did we get the lead in that game? We got our running game going and scored a lot of easy transition buckets. But guess what? Good teams don’t let you play fast break basketball all game. The Lakers regrouped and forced us to play half court offence. That was when the problems showed up.
When we were playing well, we went into half court mode and setup mismatches for Pierce to iso, or dumped it in to KG. While not pretty at times, it was generally good enough to sustain us along with quality D.
The problem we have is that first KG went down and then Pierce did too. Since they came back, you can see them struggling physically. Against good teams, KG is not commanding double teams and so we can’t get our shooters open. Pierce seems to have lost a lot of his lift and explosion, so he is getting blocked and stripped nearly every time he goes to the basket. His mid-range jumper is still pretty good, but you can see he is not as confident about backing down and shooting over players from the top of the key as he was.
To compensate, Rondo is trying to do too much in the half court game where he is not as effective. Likewise, Perk and Allen are both trying to force it and bam, too many turnovers!
The three things the Celtics most need to do to get back on track?
- Get KG healthy enough to be a threat on the block again
- Get Pierce’s legs back
- Get back to our simple, half court offensive staples in KG and Pierce
Of course, if KG and Pierce can’t get back to where they were physically then we’re screwed!
While I understand what you're saying re: team offense and defense, mmmmm,
would it be out of the question to humor me by using efficiency figures rather than per game totals?
In this case, you’ll find that they bear out what you’re saying with the per-game stats – the C’s are second in DE and 13th (just about decidedly average) in OE, but I think per-possession stats paint a more accurate picture also thanks to the issue of pace.
Hate to nitpick – and I don’t mean to lecture, since I think I’ve seen you refer to these metrics before, so I’m sure you’re familiar – I just think the same argument can be made just as well with a more telling set of statistics.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Feb 3, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Correction: The Celtics are first in DE
Just checked Knickerblogger’s updated page.
-sw
Growing up in the Weinman household, you learn two rules very quickly if you aspire to reach double-digits in the years-of-age category: Hate thy Knick, hate thy Yankee.
Go Celtics, Go Dodgers. -sw
by Steve Weinman on Feb 3, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
And those numbers are consistent with what I'm saying.
The efficiency numbers don’t really tell you a lot different than the per game numbers when you are talking about the team as a whole as with this argument. They are incredibly useful when comparing different 5-man units WITHIN a team. Oh, and of course for comparing the whole team between seasons, since the deltas are on a consistent basis of possessions.
The per game totals are simply more ‘accessible’ to most folks so I try to use them if they don’t obscure needed information.
One-on-One Basketball
I don’t know the reason, but this year they are playing more one-on-one basketball. There is less ball movement. The other problem I’ve seen is that, except for Garnett, the bigs don’t run, and the wings aren’t getting out in front of the ball on the break. How many times have wee seen Rondo headmanning the ball and trying to beat two defenders?
I attribute the lack of ball movement to three factors: first, when the going gets tough, players like Pierce think they can do it all by themselves. Second, Perkins rarely gives up the ball. When he gets it, it sticks and he tries one of his back-in post moves. Third, (and most importantly) they’re getting old.
No this is fallacy
Boston leads the league in assists.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Rondo
As the Floor General of the team, Rondo has every right to call people out. Maybe he is Not criticizing the starting unit…maybe he is referring to the bench. This could have to do with Sheed’s technical fouls, Davis not being helpful for a major part of the season, or even something we know nothing about….Sheldon Williams reason for being a DNP. Don’t be so quick to assume that Rondo means the starters. I am sure whoever he was talking about got the message. This thread sounds like the thread about Williams saying “when it rains it pours” and interpreting it in the worst possible light. And that, my friends, is what gossip is all about. LOL
what bench?
you mean we actually have one? You should tell Doc
I would tend to agree.
The whole set of statements came across as very measured. Rondo is clearly a very, very intelligent person and I think he was very economical with his words on this. He has a purpose.
Does anyone notice
how slow they bring the ball up the court? Except for when they have a clear cut fast break, it always seems like everoyne is taking forever to get up the court, and by the time they are actually in their offensive set, there’s like 8 seconds left to run it. I noticed it in the Orlando game, and specifically in the Lakers game. Maybe they have always done this, but now that they are losing more, I’m just starting to notice it…
Something is not right with the C's
Aside from, injuries age etc.
Maybe what Rondo is referring to with this comments (though he did not elaborate) is what the main problem is this year.
Somebody had to say it.
Our chemistry problems have been clear to anyone watching the team. We go through long stretches where we don’t move the ball, set screens for each other, or play ANY help defense. It is, truly, every man for himself AT TIMES. Down the stretch of games we often have been standing around expecting someone else to get it done.
It’s pretty clear to me at least that Rondo, KG, Paul, and Perk have all been TEAM FIRST since the get-go. Sure, Perk struggles passing out of double teams, and Paul will iso on occasion (when Doc calls for it), but those aren’t chemistry issues, those are coaching/gameplan issues.
It’s also pretty clear that KG’s health makes this team a lot healthier mentally—when he’s engaged and feeling good about himself it engenders accountability across the board. But when KG’s limping, he’s not as vocal, not as demonstrative, and that’s when I think different agendas come to light, mainly because KG’s personality leaves a void when it’s not shining to its highest potential.
As far as pointing the finger at who is to blame—part of the blame goes on the circumstances of this season: lots of injuries and the loss of KG and the accountability that he brings with him. Outside of that, I say Ray Allen is probably the biggest example (in the starting five) of a guy who often plays outside of the team—I’m talking about not passing to the open man and instead taking his man off the dribble into traffic, or forcing contested shots. I’m also reminded to something Donny Marshall said: he talked to the Mavs after their 99-90 win over the Cs and the Mavs players said they could tell when the play was for Ray because Ray was running hard on those plays and half-assing it on all the others. That lack of effort when he’s not getting the ball, combined with his ball-hogging tendencies (the ball sticks ALOT when it’s in Ray’s hands) and shot-forcing when well-guarded makes me think Ray has gone anti-ubuntu.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 9:03 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Good point, because..
he is looking to secure another contract, and the way it’s looking, it ain’t gonna be with the C’s. So maybe he’s trying to show the other teams out there he still has it. I also think he’s been playing so many minutes, and wasn’t taken out the other night when T. Allen was playing so well, because they are shopping him, and Ainge is telling Doc he needs to be out there. Just a thought..
One More Thing
Part of these problems are due to Doc’s unwillingness to hand the keys to Rondo full-time. Doc likes to coach the team like it’s still 2007, like Paul can still isolate down the stretch and win us games single-handedly and like Ray Allen’s due to hit the next shot even if he’s just missed his first 13. The entire system, since 2007, has been predicated on sublimating the Big 3’s ego and shots into a equitable shot-sharing system. That did work in 2007, because usually two of the three were due to have good games. But such shot-sharing doesn’t work in 2010, when we’re lucky to have one of the big 3 have a good game.
We need to put more of a scoring load on Rondo’s shoulders, and put more defense in the starting lineup. Rondo/Paul/KG can do enough scoring in that starting lineup—what they need with them in more perimeter defense and somebody who can get out and finish on the break. Basically, they need someone to run with Rondo.
All signs point to benching Ray Allen. Outside of a trade, that’s the most practical way of improving the chemistry of this team. Benching Ray would:
1. Put more of the offensive responsibility on Rondo’s shoulders. As our best player, he should be able to handle it.
2. Improve the chemistry of the first unit by adding more defense, athleticism, and perimeter defense.
3. Improve the scoring off the bench, and remove one short, non-dribble chucker (House) with a taller, somewhat better dribbling and more likely to get his shot off chucker in Ray Allen.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Nope.
EVERY one of our best 5-man rotations as measured by point differentials per minute on the floor includes Ray Allen. He’s the only one you can say that about.
Doc is not going to bench him.
If that's so...
Ray should be used to boost the bench—the starters are probably good enough without him.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Again - nope.
First off, Ray is ALREADY being used to boost the bench. Doc gives him the most minutes of any starter with the second unit – for the very reason that he knows he makes them more effective.
Our most efficient 5-man is very simply – and this is NOT arguable – the one that has our current starters (Rondo-Ray-Paul-KG-Perk). Not only are they most point efficient (that’s the net of both preventing points as well as scoring points) they are also doing that against the other team’s first units. So the difference between that unit and any other combination we have is even more pronounced than the raw numbers.
You want that 5-man unit to be out there on the floor for as many minutes as possible. Unless, of course, you are happy with losing.
Note – our best DEFENSIVE rotation is actually the one where you replace Pierce with Tony. That is not so good on offense. Our best OFFENSIVE rotation is oddly with Scal in for KG – but that one is terrible on defense. Both those rotations have only seen limited minutes though, so don’t read too much into them.
Actually, no again
You want that ideal five man unit fresh for the 4th quarter when it’s winning time…what you don’t want is 4/5ths of it playing 40 minutes a night. Moving Ray to the bench improves perimeter defense to start the game, redistributes the shooting on the 2nd unit (to a higher efficiency player—Ray), and keeps Ray fresh for the 4th quarter…since he’s playing less time and not trying to defend 1st string perimeter players.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Look - I'll agree with the sentiment of getting the starters more rest.
But its not going to happen by putting Ray on the bench and arbitrarily cutting his minutes. You have to think about what you are putting on the floor in place of those minutes.
You should start by realizing that as a percentage of our total minutes played, our best 5-man unit has NOT been out on the floor as much compared to the best units of other good teams. That has been largely because of injuries.
For example, rotations using JUST the top 6 players for the Lakers have been on the floor for 14% more minutes this year than our top 6 (RR, Ray, PP, KG, KP, Sheed). The Hawks have had THEIR top 6 on the floor 38% more of the time!!!
We have actually had to have the deeper parts of our rotation on the floor too much. And once you start getting to the really deep rotations – where 4 or more of the starters are replaced with the bench – it has not been pretty. The fall off is pretty bad.
What we need to have happen are twofold. We need to actually HAVE our best rotation (RR, Ray, PP, KG & Perk) healthy and on the floor enough to build big leads. Then we need our bench rotations to perform better and at least hold those leads.
We were really hurt by KGs absence not so much because Sheed was a huge drop off for the starters – he was a drop off, but they are still very good. The real hurt is that meant going further into the bench to replace Sheed’s minutes on the second team. That really killed us during KGs absence. Our bench is immediately a lot better with KG back in the starting lineup.
On possible big help will Daniels’ return. In the early part of the season some of our best bench rotations were with him on the floor. That reduces the need for Ray and Paul to have to be on the floor with the bench.
Do you have any basis for for saying “Moving Ray to the bench improves perimeter defense to start the game”? And even if it were true (which I doubt) how does that help us if it reduces something else to start the game?
The numbers don’t lie. The team as currently constructed is almost always better with Ray on the floor and so in order to compete, we need him to be starting and playing starter’s minutes. I agree that it would be better to get him off the floor for some rest. But that needs to happen through improving the bench rotations that don’t require him.
I don't see that at all
I think Ray’s number of shots have been way down and if anything, I’d like him to start shooting more since no one else seems to be stepping up on offense. I feel like they aren’t running enough plays for him to get him going.
He can actually create his own shot off the dribble or pull up for a jumper. Every time he’s gone to the hoop off the dribble, something good usually comes of it. He gets a lot of easy layups or short jumpers and he kicks out to the wing for an open jumper quite a bit. I really don’t think he’s going anti-ubuntu. I think he’s just as little frustrated because his shot is off and he’s in a bit of a rut. In my opinion, he’s one of the best team guys on the whole squad.
Actually, not really
Ray’s shots have been down, which have caused him to force jumpers and try to create off the dribble, usually to disasterous results. Ray can get to the rim alright, but don’t ask him to make a pass or dribble out of a double team—that’s a TO everytime.
Basically, Rondo’s replaced Ray in terms of effectiveness and that’s why Ray’s shots are down, which is why he should be benched and start taking shots away from the real chuckers on this team, House and ’Sheed. We have an imbalance—too much scoring, not enough defense on the 1st team, and not enough offense on the 2nd team (specifically because we have two low-efficiency chuckers on that 2nd team). Bench Ray and you fix both issues.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
Can't argue with any thing you've said.
Although I have to believe a trade may take care of the issue.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
That's simply not true.
The team’s shots are down more than Ray’s are. He has reduced his shots, but not because someone else is taking them.
We are taking too few shots as a team for a few reasons. One is that as a team we are shooting at a high FG% (by scoring in the paint) so we need fewer second chance shots. We also simple DON’T as a rule take very many second chance shots because we are completely indifferent towards getting offensive rebounds. Finally, another smaller reason we are taking fewer shots is because we are as a team turning the ball over too many times. We are NBA-average for turnovers but we should be way below that to be a championship contending team.
And no, it is not Ray that is causing us to have higher turnovers – his are actually only a hair up from last year and overall are very low (lower than his career average).
Rondo has not ‘replaced Ray’ in any way. They are completely different and complementary pieces.
And your assessments of our ‘imbalance’ is completely backwards. Try looking up the numbers before you post.
The Celtics LEAD THE LEAGUE IN DEFENSE. There is NO SHORTAGE OF DEFENSE on the first team. If anything there is a shortage of offense and it goes back to the reduction in the number of shots I talked about above. Our offensive rating is DOWN almost 3 pts (per 100 possessions) from last year.
That is completely backwards from what you posted.
Whatever
Take a look at usage #s and get back to me. You might be surprised to know that both Sheed and House have higher usage rates than Ray, meaning that the relative to their minutes, both those guys are getting more looks. You wanna know who else is in front of Ray in terms of usage? KG, Paul, and Rondo. Ray is a huge decoy on that first unit, and he’s a decoy who struggles at defending his position.
This decoy-ness is starting to grate on Ray, as shown by Donny’s story where certain Mavs players said they could tell when Ray was getting the ball based on hard he was running. This also comes to the fore when Ray refuses to swing the ball in a timely fashion, or refuses to pass the ball to Rondo for an open jumper, instead choosing to force a shot, force a dribble penetration more, or ‘create’ a shot for someone else, something that often results in a turnover.
As for those offensive stats, if the offense is down, it’s because our usage rates are out of whack. Currently, this is our usage rate: Paul/KG/’Sheed/House/Rondo/Ray/TA/Perk.
Basically, we have two low-efficiency, chuckers sucking a ton of possession off of our 2nd unit, and we’re not getting any points to show for it. THAT, right there, is why you move Ray to the 2nd unit. Improve his usage rate, get him more shots, and take shots away from Sheed/House, while improving the perimeter defense and easy bucket potential of the starting unit.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
That is interesting—-who would you start instead of Ray? I would think w/ Ray on the floor defenses will always have to guard him, opening things up for others, especially in the first unit. Move him to the 2nd and I’m not sure he gets more looks, especially not better looks. But I like your research/opinion.
I'd give up offfense...
To get more defense, especially to start the game. To me, TA or Daniels could provide solid wing defense to start the game. Then, I’d bring in the other one (either TA/Daniels, who ever didn’t start) to sub for Rondo at about the 4 minute mark, bringing in Ray 2 minutes later. At the start of the 2nd, I’d bring Rondo back in. This way, Ray’s playing with Rondo against 2nd teamers, hopefully playing with more energy in less minutes while not being taxed on the defensive end.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
"Whatever"?
You state something COMPLETELY BACKWARDS and get called on it. Your rebuttal is to say “Whatever” and then post some garbage misinterpretation of the numbers on usage rates?
In other words, you CAN"T back up what you said (re the comments below) and now you’ve just dumped more garbage on the table?
Ignoring the fact that usage rates depend on offensive role and are going to swing with minutes, in the end the usage rates are irrelevant – what matters is point efficiencies. Whether a player is being used as a decoy or taking a shot or setting screen – when he is on the floor is his team scoring points and preventing points.
You are hanging an awful lot of interpretation on that anecdotal Donny Marshall Maverick’s story. That has lead you to be inside Ray’s head? You know for a fact that something is “starting to grate on Ray” ??
Ray’s had ups and downs this season. All players do. Its a grind.
Ray Allen's either tired or..
he’s dogging it. His legs are so tired that he often gives up good looks because he doesn’t have the legs to set himself, only to dribble himself into worse looks at the basket.
BTW, you’re the one ignoring statistics. You can post 5-man point efficiency stats all you want, but that really doesn’t point to who’s causing what to happen.
Ray Allen’s not getting shots because a.) he can’t anymore, his legs are gone; and b.) Rondo/Paul/KG deserve them more. What’s worse, Ray’s ego can’t handle being a decoy anymore, meaning he’s not running as hard when the play’s not for him.
To me, we gotta cut Ray’s minutes, and play him more against 2nd unit players. Since our 2nd unit has trouble scoring, and our first unit struggles defending the perimeter (translation being that Ray Allen struggles defending the perimeter), a Ray for TA switch makes the most sense.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'll vote for "legs are so tired".
That one is too easy. He’s played a lot of minutes. He’s not 25 anymore. He’s almost certainly tired.
I freely admit I ignore some statistics. Some are useless for this conversation (for example, the infamous Offensive Rebounds).
There are, however, no more compelling statistics than points scored and points surrendered. Everything I’ve said is based around just those two things.
You keep diving into things you cannot objectively quantify or substantiate. “Ray’s ego”?
Is the issue that you simply don’t like Ray Allen? You seem to keep casting negative projections of what you think his personality must be like.
On what basis do you assert that the first unit “struggles defending the perimeter” and further, are you contending that replacing Ray with Tony would result in a NET gain in points scored versus points surrendered?
If I may, the Celtics don’t seem to have much trouble defending anything. As previously stated many times before… the Celtics are number one in points against and number two in 3pt% against.
Yeah right...
What about the games they’ve been losing? Their opponents had to have scored against their defense? They must surely have had much trouble defending against something? Yes? No?
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Are you proposing that they can win games by NOT scoring points?
Are you expecting that the Celtics can hold their opponents to zero points?
Reality – you have to play both offense and defense. The only measure of each that is meaningful is points. Yes, their opponents had to have (and did) score against the Celtics defense. Can you not admit that the Celtics are holding their opponents to the fewest points on average in the whole NBA? Is that arguable?
Can you also not see that inversely their offense is scoring only a mediocre amount of points? That if the Celtics want to win they need to score more points than their opponents?
They didn’t lose to the Lakers because the Lakers lit up the Celtics. The Lakers scored almost 13 points below their average. The Celtics lost because they were held to even fewer points.
I am proposing no such thing.
Are you expecting that the Celtics can hold their opponents to zero points?
I am not proposing they can win games by not scoring points. Isn’t it obvious if they already have the lead going into the 4Q that they had to score to be in the lead?
Yes, their opponents had to have (and did) score against the Celtics defense. Can you not admit that the Celtics are holding their opponents to the fewest points on average in the whole NBA? Is that arguable?
I already admitted that they are a defensive team, but can you also admit that you can hold your opponents to the fewest points on average and still lose a game?
Can you also not see that inversely their offense is scoring only a mediocre amount of points? That if the Celtics want to win they need to score more points than their opponents?
No, not really, because if the Celtics are already in the lead by double digits, and then they get cold offensively, to win they just have to prevent their opponents from scoring more than the differential. And that requires good defense.
They didn’t lose to the Lakers because the Lakers lit up the Celtics. The Lakers scored almost 13 points below their average. The Celtics lost because they were held to even fewer points.
AGREED! Finally, you see how defense was the issue for Boston. See, LA won because they played better defense and held the C’s to even fewer points liek you said. Boston could have have won by doing the exact same thing!!! By holding LA to even even fewer points, especially when they had been sitting on a double digit lead. LA was in a much bigger hole having to come back from behind.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
im embarrassed for you and your horrible post. Calling Ray Allen selfish is beyond bad.
You dont call a player who averaged 25 points per game and sacrificed to be a 3rd fiddle on this team.
The guy plays 40 minutes a game, and finds himself not getting any plays called for him while Rajon gets to dribble for 15 seconds of the shot clock….then you got Paul Pierce who just happens to want the ball in his hands every time.
Calling Ray Allen selfish is like calling Mother Teresa a bitch.
If anything Ray Allen is a real leader who does what he has to do to help the team win. Mind you he is the classiest player in the NBA by far.
by celticsfan344 on Feb 3, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
He's not selfish
He’s just trying to do too much relative his skill level.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Seems like TA and RR have played well together.
Maybe Tony’s hustle and defense have shown up Ray’s habits when in the backcourt with Rondo. Certainly Ray’s been underperforming AND playing for a contract.
Ray Allen? A selfish player?
That makes no sense.
He’s taking LESS shots this year than prior two years. He’s making slightly MORE Assists.
Per 36 minutes:
2008 2009 2010
FGA 13.5 13.0 12.3
Assists 3.1 2.7 2.7
Ray has a pretty solid reputation as a total team player. I don’t buy this for a second.
Nobody called him selfish
But he’s a man who thinks he’s better than he is…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I've been saying Ray has been a black hole all season
The ball goes to him, and it doesn’t come out.
I didn’t know about the comments made by the Dallas players, interesting though.
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
Yes but....
The Celtics are getting old but they can still win. I just think the mix is off now — too many older perimeter guys – no Leon Powe to provide hustle and tenacity on the boards – lack of athleticism in the backcourt after Rondo. Eddie House has sucked for the most part this season. If he’s not hitting, he’s pretty much useless. Ray can’t guard anyone, and Sheed’s either too told or too lazy. Plus KG is not the KG of old — Simmons may have been right btw.
I think the right deal may be able to correct a lot of this….but it has to be the right deal.
yes and no
Not enough hustle and tenacity from bench players? Yes I agree and have been really pleased to see signs that is changing from guys like BBD and Tony in recent games. Those two had been really flat and passive this season and it has to change for our bench to hold their own.
Ray can’t guard anyone? Disagree strongly. Did you see his defence on Kobe recently? I don’t think I’ve seen someone play Kobe better one on one. I will agree that quicker players like Crawford and Gordon can give him problems though.
Sheed too old or lazy? He’s not too old. Physically he seems pretty good. Not sure its exactly laziness either. I think with Sheed its mental. It always has been. He’s temperamental and unpredictable on both offence and defence. He has a lot of talent, which means he makes great plays on both ends of the floor, but he’s not disciplined and so you never know what you’re gonna get. I’d be really interested to know how successful Sheed is at making shots in crunch time? I suspect in the clutch he is the anti Ray Allen!
I think it's Sheed
I hate to say it because I wanted this to work out but based on his attitude and play recently, I bet it’s Sheed causing some of the problems in the locker room. He was never a part of the original “Ubuntu” attitude and since he’s older, he’s probably stuck in his ways and not quite conforming to all of the teams “rules” or unwritten ways they do things.
Sheed seems to get pissed when he doesn’t get enough touches which explains why he chucks up so many threes as soon as he gets the ball instead of giving it one more pass like the Celtics of the past two seasons have been so willing to do. I think that would irritate Rondo because he loves team ball and making the pass and I’m sure it’s still very hard for him to speak up with another loud veteran in the clubhouse.
I highly doubt that KG, Allen or Pierce are going to say anything too negative to Sheed when he starts acting up or getting a little out of control because at this point in his career, he’s not really listening to anyone. I just get the vibe that they are frustrated with his play but they feel like they really can’t say anything to him.
I agree
I have never been a big fan of Sheed, and the fact we are taking more three pointers this year then the last two is a direct reflection on him. I don’t understand it because when he posts up, he can score on most anyone!
Exactly!
It’s super frustrating to see Sheed floating outside the 3 point line all the time when he’s totally capable of taking anyone to the hoop in the post. His shot is so far above his head, it’s almost impossible to block without fouling him.
When Garnett and Sheed are in the game at the same time, it kind of messes up the flow because they both want to be on the perimeter when one of them should be down low. It really doesn’t matter who it is because they can both get a great shot off or kick it out of the double team.
I don’t know what is said on the court or in practice but I really wish one of the coaches would just force Sheed to take at least 5 shots from the post per game. It would almost be an automatic 8-10 pts for him.
Yeah, not to mention
when they are both in there and are out on the perimeter, it leaves Perk by himself trying to rebound against 2 and 3 guys. Not very effective if you ask me. And when Sheed is out there, and Garnett isn’t, it’s the same thing, Perk is left down there to rebound against a couple guys.
Agree Rasheed must get in the low post more often
He is I think our best low post scorer, something this team lacks big time and we need him on the block.
He has done a better job of getting in the low post and taking less 3’s compared to earlier in the year but he must still do a better job and strive for 60 % of his shot selection to be in the low post and 40% to be out in 3 point land.
Its important for Rasheed to still take some 3’s during games since it is a great weapon, since it spreads the floor and draws out opposing centers like which occured last week when Gasol, Bynum and Howard had to go out and guard Rasheed on the perimeter which opened the inside game for others on the team (like for Rondo who was able to penetrate easily with the shot blockers pulled outside).
Yeah, I agree with that
We definitely want him taking SOME 3’s, especially because it brings his man out from the low post, but he doesn’t have to shoot it every time he gets it out there. Just bringing his guy out will open up a lot of options for Rondo and Paul to drive to the basket. And, I don’t think I have ever seen him fake a shot and drive either.
I don't really want Sheed trying to slash ...
Just put him within 6 feet of the post and get the ball to him. :-D
Just FTR – after that horrible stretch last fall (his 3pt% was down around 26% for November!), Sheed’s 3pt% was a very nice 35.6% for January. If he shoots it at that rate, its a great weapon for a big man to have. (NBA average is about 34%, which is also Sheed’s career average).
Agree
His main agenda is being the focus and his one-man war against the refs is the method.
I’d say the way the Celts have looked on the few occasions that Sheed plays in the post has got to frustrate the team when he does nothing but chuck threes…
by nba is the worst on Feb 3, 2010 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Perkins More to Blame Than Sheed
Sheed is a good passer. He finds the open man. And he’s a better defender than people here care to admit. Stop scapegoating him. The problem with Sheed is that he has been ice cold from beyond the arc, and maybe that conjures up unpleasant memories of Employee #8. When he’s won on the blocks he’s fine, and he is a much more skilled post player than Perkins.
Perkins is the one who has not been playing well recently. He can’t seem to hold onto the ball when rebounding, and he’s a moving pick waiting to happen. And where are the offensive rebounds? If Perkins is such a horse, why is the team dead least in the league in offensive rebounding?
Rebounding
has been a huge issue, I agree. But, I think part of the reason is we have been jacking up so many 3’s and they tend to come off the rim a lot more then a normal 10-15 foot jump shot. Sheed is second on the team behine Allen with 206. We have shot 845 3’s already this year. We are on pace to shoot 1690 of them if we keep going like this. Last year we shot 1355 in the regular season, and in 2007 we shot 1564. That’s a hell of a lot more 3’s!
Perk is still a beast
I hear what you are saying about Perkins getting those moving picks all the time and also some awful ticky tack fouls which is super frustrating but I still think he is playing decent overall. He has his moments when he holds onto the ball too long down low or he brings the ball down after a rebound to let the guards slap at it instead of keeping it high and going right up for a layup or dunk but those happen far less often than they used to.
He has done a great job of adding that fadeaway jumper/baby hook to his offensive repertoire and he does a good job of finishing the play when he gets the ball on a break or drive. He goes right up instead of wasting time trying to gather himself like he did in the past. Combine all of that with his great defense on big guys and I have no major problems with him. Some more rebounding would be nice but that will hopefully come with time.
That's on Doc, Brick
Doc’s so hellbent on getting the ball into the post that he’ll basically slow the offense to a grind, force it inside, by which time Perk is usually 10-15 feet from the rim. Perk’s dynamite when he’s got a deep post—otherwise, it’s asking him too much to give him post ups 15 feet from the rim. Those just end in TOs or wasted possessions.
Again, Doc thinks that getting the ball in the post is some kind of magic remedy to the offense—it’s not. Quick movement, screens, and passing is what get us going—yet Doc will slow down the entire thing to ‘get it inside’.
Oh, ‘Sheed is actually a terrible passer, especially when he’s in the post. He has almost ZERO awareness of what’s happening on the weak side and often misses TA cutting to the rim.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
Our team FG% is a gawdy 48.5% last I checked.
Largely BECAUSE we go to the post as much as possible.
To the detriment of the offense, usually...
In general, getting it into the post is good, BUT if you’re so hell bent on getting it there that you slow down your offense, quit passing, quit moving, quit setting picks, take 15 seconds to get it down low, and Perk is by then 15 feet from the rim, well, that’s a wasted possession.
Our offense is at it’s best when it’s moving quickly, passing quickly, and setting picks. Too often we abandon those elements all in the name of ‘getting it inside’—which leads to wasted possessions.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that we are best when attacking - but that actually usually ends up in the post.
It stalls most when we do that sucky ‘walk it up and then run an iso from the top of the key’ … ugh. Clock runs out, hurried shot from the perimeter or a turnover results.
Yeah, we have a pace problem for sure...
And it’s tough to pinpoint why…you’re right, though, slowing our offense leads to isolations, be them from the perimeter or poorly executed attempts to post up Perkins (or KG sometimes as well).
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 3, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Agree 100 % Brickowski
With your defense of Rasheeds defense on the court.
Rasheed is with his nice length and bulk is probably our best low post power defender in the block as proved last week with his nice defensive work on Gasol, Bynum and Howard.
When on the block on offense he I think is also one of if not the best low post scorers we have.
For a 35 year old back up I will take that and am glad we have him.
Yeah, when he's in the post...
That’s my whole argument. He’s not in the low post enough on offense, which causes perk to be left stranded on an island a lot with regards to rebounding. It doesn’t help that KG’s and Pierce’s rebounding has been down.
Our offensive rebounding is down by design.
It is part of our defensive philosophy not to really contend for offensive rebounds and instead to get back on defense immediately after the shot goes up.
This has paid off big time on our defense (ranked #1 or #2 all year).
Sheed goes in and out on offense and that actually helps to open the paint for Rondo, Paul & Tony to slash into. I agree completely that Sheed is more effective himself in the post. But its not just about himself. His versatily helps others on the team.
Oh – maybe he’s not being selfish?
He's right on
I’m glad to see Rondo giving voice to what is obvious—the team’s overall body language, as one poster already mentioned, is just not positive. All pure speculation, but for what it’s worth:
1. Davis looks sullen out there—nothing like the happy energetic player that blossomed late last year. He didn’t get the contract that he wanted, busted his thumb, hasn’t come back well from the injury, and his attitude has suffered.
2. Perk definitely looks like he wants the ball more, and when he does get it, he’s a black hole. I was at the game on Monday night here in DC, and when he got the ball he was going to pound it in no matter what. His rebounding numbers aren’t too bad, but he’s not controlling the boards out there, that’s for sure. He’s always had a scowl, but he doesn’t look all that happy out there.
3. Sheed’s attitude has not been a positive addition to the team, period.
As for criticisms of Rondo looking for his own numbers, I couldn’t disagree more. I watched him give up several layups during the Wiz game to try to get other guys shots. He does this all the time. If Rondo wanted to score 20+/game he could do that starting tonight. He is unselfish to the point where I think he passes up great shots for himself just to distribute the ball to his teammates.
With the losing and the injuries this team has lost the ubuntu and its mojo. Winning will hopefully bring it back.
Pre-championship vs. post-championship mentality
Maybe the older players, having finally won a championship, are not as hungry as the younger ones who are just starting out their careers. They may have been willing to sacrifice much more when so much was at stake pre-championship, when their own NBA legacy was not that clear, when the sportswriters freely questioned their ability to win. Now that they got that monkey off their backs, it’s much more difficult to self-motivate and exorcise long acquired bad habits from popping up every now and then, to the detriment of the team.
The younger players on the other hand, were footnotes in that championship drive. It was all about the Big Three capping off their illustrious careers with a championship. The worst time to win a championship is when you’re nearing the end of your career (by the way, this is true in every aspect of life). They’ve had long careers, made their millions, what’s left? It’d be nice to win another one, break some record, an/or make more money, but all these things are just NICE-TO-HAVE rather than MUST-HAVE at this point in their long careers. Sheed is an example of this, which is why bringing him to Boston may have been a mistake. It was assumed KG can motivate him some, but even KG himself maybe suffering from the kind of lack of motivation that afflicts older players after accomplishing an elusive goal. Like the Big 3, Sheed has also had a long and illustrious career, made good money and won a championship with Detroit, so what’s his MUST-HAVE at this point in his career? Nothing really, but I digress.
Rondo and Perk are just starting out, and I’m sure they’d like to anchor a championship team as major contributors rather than footnotes to the Big 3. And that, I think, can make all the difference in how the young and old players approach things today. Team chemistry is affected when players don’t have the same motivation.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 9:36 AM EST reply actions
Whatever the issue is, these guys better figure it out soon. Based on the growing gap in their records, the Celtics will not have home court advantage if they have to play Cleveland and LA to get number 18. And possibly Orlando, Atlanta, Denver and Dallas. I applaud Rondo for speaking up, as well as Perkins. These are the future leaders of the team.
bored..yes
they definitely looked bored, and always talk about the postseason. But not as hungry, I don’t think so. Pierce and KG are very hungry for at least one more ring. I just think they don’t want to work as hard to win regular season games, but this may create bad habits for the playoffs.
Someone mentioned earlier about Rondo should try saying “no comment” next time, and I gotta agree with that. First of all these comments are pretty vague, and we don’t know who he is talking about, whether its a player a coach, or whoever. Also, this is one persons POV of a situation, so if there is a problem were only getting one side, so I don’t think it is fair to point fingers on every else on the team. What I really don’t like about this, is the fact he is speaking about it to the media, but then states in the article that it isn’t being discussed in the locker room. Am I the only one who sees a HUGE problem with that. If there is a chemistry problem, this isn’t going to help, in fact it will probably just make it worse.
As much as I love Rondo, I don’t think these comments should have been made in public, if he wants to be more a leader I’m all for that, but do it in the locker room, not to the media. Now it creates more room for speculation, and will put more pressure on the team because they all will have to field questions about this each time something goes wrong, which isn’t going to help solve the problems.
Exactly the media know
who they can get quotes from. Sadly Rondo doesn’t realize he’s being used. Keep the complaints in the locker room unless you have the Balls to say who you are talking about. Making vague comments are useless and to be honest no one on the team cares what RR thinks because he’s a 4 yr PG that’s hasn’t been through the wars. Basically what I’m trying to say is Doc was right about Rondo.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
What are you talking about?
Rondo’s won a championship and in the playoffs twice. He’s been in “the wars” plenty already in his young career. And he’s as much as a leader as anyone else, people DO care what he thinks. And they should, because he’s one of the smartest players on the team as well.
And you honestly want him to “have the balls” to call someone out? That would be just plain stupid to call someone out. The team needs a message like the one Rondo is giving, they need a slap in the face, because Rondo (and Pierce I suppose) are the only ones playing with any consitency and they are struggling because of it. Quit saying that “nobody cares what Rondo thinks,” because this isn’t two years ago. Rondo is an all star, top five point guard, not a young hotshot who has no experience whatsoever.
They don't give 2S's what Rondo thinks and rightfully so.
It’s strange that you don’t hear Paul and KG calling people out.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Dude, you're going completely off of what YOU think.
When in Doc and everybody else on the team has said that Rondo is a leader on this team, that he’s the MVP, etc. Based off of what we, the average fans, know, then they DO care about ROndo thinks. Quit speculating. Maybe your just a hater, I don’t know. And calling him a “sneak” really? That doesn’t even make sense, considering that his teammates are going to see the quotes in the papers the next day. You argument has no logic whatsoever.
I don't even think understand what Doc
means about being a leader so you arguing what you think is logical really doesn’t sway me one way or the other. Sneak may have been a bit too harsh but, it was ‘soft’ move to go to the press ( like its going to change anything ) without being totally honest about who he’s talking about.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Totally disagree
As much as I love Rondo, I don’t think these comments should have been made in public, if he wants to be more a leader I’m all for that, but do it in the locker room, not to the media. Now it creates more room for speculation, and will put more pressure on the team because they all will have to field questions about this each time something goes wrong, which isn’t going to help solve the problems.
There’s a guy in LA called Kobe, I’m sure you’ve heard of him. But just in case you haven’t he is what a team leader should be. He will not hesitate to call out team mates and even management publicly. I don’t always agree with what he has to say, but I agree with the public calling out because it puts a fire under people. And that’s one of the reasons why LA is a perennial chanmpionship team. They have a leader who demands accountability publicly. as it should be.
Rondo is the next leader of this team, and he’s already doing a good job. I think he was very diplomatic in not going into details, but he needed to say something. This is about the balance of power. It has been on the other side, with the older guys. A power shift occuring, and I’m glad Rondo recognizes it and is willing to take up the mantle. When a power shift occured in Boston during PPs early years, he never rose to meet the challenge. Rick Pitino had to make Antoine and PP’s co-captain. We’re lucky to have Rondo ready to lead at such a young age in his career. Don’t try to muzzle him, let him floruish instead.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
That's why we hate LA and Kobe
Welcome to the Celtics.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
That may work in LA, but this is a different team. Plus Rondo is no where near Kobe’s level….at least not yet. Also I still think its kind of a cop out to say it publicly but not to the people themselves in the locker room. Kobe may call out players because he carries the team every single day, whereas in Boston its more of a partnership between Rondo and the others. Like I said before, I don’t have a problem with Rondo trying to step up and become more of a leader, but not like this. Plus its not very diplomatic when the guys in the locker probably know who he is talking about, so its not like its a big secret to them.
Fact. Kobe Bryant isn’t a leader. He just yells at people when they’re down at half time and then tells Phil Jackson to draw the next play for him. That’s why Zero of the Black Mamba’s teammates have ever said a nice thing about him other than ’he’s the ultimate competitor.’ Kobe is just a massively talented douche. Rondo is well liked and complimented by his teammates and Doc. If Kobe were half the man that RR is then the Lakers would’ve won every championship since ’00.
Leadership
Also I still think its kind of a cop out to say it publicly but not to the people themselves in the locker room.
How do you know this hasn’t come up in locker room or other private conversations amongst the players? Just because you don’t know of it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Fact. Kobe Bryant isn’t a leader. He just yells at people when they’re down at half time and then tells Phil Jackson to draw the next play for him. That’s why Zero of the Black Mamba’s teammates have ever said a nice thing about him other than ’he’s the ultimate competitor.’ Kobe is just a massively talented douche.
Leadership has little to do with being liked. You can be loved and be a horrible leader, and you can be hated, even feared and be an effective leader.
The landscape is littered with talented folks who didn’t do anything with their talent. The idea that all you need is massive talent to guarantee success is not rooted in any reality. You gotta work at it, and you gotta be willing to hold yourself and others accountable. In other words, you gotta be a leader.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
"I can’t really elaborate on it too much, but I think we’ve just got to be a team with no agendas," Rondo said. "We’ve got to play unselfish, you know? That’s on defense and offense. You’ve got to want the best for the next man out there regardless if you’re in the game playing well or you’re out of the game not playing well."
Asked if he and the Celts had tried to clear the air on this, he said, "We haven’t really been talking about it, but you’ve just got to know.
That was Rondo’s quote from the article this post is about. That is why I said it isn’t being talked about in the locker room.
Your proof that Kobe’s leadership skill are appreciated by his teammates is that I don’t know what’s being said in the locker room? Weak. My point is that You have no evidence that he’s respected by his teammates. Because he isn’t. Aside from his legendary competitiveness.
But I’d like to step away from this becoming a pissing contest. The reason I replied to begin with is that RR isn’t comparable to Kobe at all. Please go to Silver Screen and Roll to slob Kobe’s knob.
Your proof that Kobe’s leadership skill are appreciated by his teammates is that I don’t know what’s being said in the locker room? Weak. My point is that You have no evidence that he’s respected by his teammates. Because he isn’t. Aside from his legendary competitiveness.
Huh? Please don’t put words in my mouth (quote me if you must). Effective leadership is not measured by how much you are loved or respected, it’s about results. and what you do when the chips are down. You can be loved and still be an ineffective leader. You can be hated and/or feared and be a very effective leader. Now how can you disconnect his leaderhsip from his legendary competiveness? They are intertwined, but you want to ignore that because it nullifies your main point.
But I’d like to step away from this becoming a pissing contest. The reason I replied to begin with is that RR isn’t comparable to Kobe at all. Please go to Silver Screen and Roll to slob Kobe’s knob.
You say you want to step aside from a pissing contest, but you are indulging in it. I am going to ignore that for now, but you’ve been warned. To your other point, talent level doesn’t make you a better leader. Just look around you in your daily life, the most talented is not always the one leading.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Dear Idiot,
I’ll quote you exactly instead of paraphrasing from now on under the condition that you stop taking up so much space quoting me.
And now I would like to pee in competition. “You’ve been warned.” – The Village Idiot. “You’re a tool.” – Me
Don’t ever warn someone on an internet discussion board. That makes you look like an idiot because you can’t inflict a punishment after giving a warning.
That being said I had written a paragraph explaining why Kobe is not a good team leader and how you’re misreading my comment but then I read another one of your posts and realized that you’re a waste of SBNation account. You truly are the Village Idiot.
Yes, I am truly The Village Idiot
I’ll quote you exactly instead of paraphrasing from now on under the condition that you stop taking up so much space quoting me.
I am still waiting for you to quote what you previously attributed to me that I never said. Can’t find it? I didn’t think so.
Don’t ever warn someone on an internet discussion board. That makes you look like an idiot because you can’t inflict a punishment after giving a warning.
What makes you think I want to inflict punishment on you?
You truly are the Village Idiot.
You mean you didn’t see the name under my posts, genius? By now, it should have been obvious to you that I am truly The Village Idiot. I mean, is that supposed to be an insult or compliment.? :)
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
“How do you know this hasn’t come up in locker room or other private conversations amongst the players? Just because you don’t know of it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.” – The Village Idiot
“Your proof that Kobe’s leadership skill(s) are appreciated by his teammates is that I don’t know what’s being said in the locker room? Weak. My point is that You have no evidence that he’s respected by his teammates.” – My response. So echnically at no point did I quote you or put words in your mouth.
“What makes you think I want to inflict punishment on you?” – The Village Idiot
“You say you want to step aside from a pissing contest, but you are indulging in it. I am going to ignore that for now, but you’ve been warned.” – The Village Idiot
“You mean you didn’t see the name under my posts, genius? " – The Village Idiot.
I did see it and that’s why I keep calling you Idiot.
Are you purposely saying the dumbest things possible as a reverse trolling technique?
Wrong quote! Figures...
You’re quoting my response to wisco87.
Here’ what you said
Fact. Kobe Bryant isn’t a leader. He just yells at people when they’re down at half time and then tells Phil Jackson to draw the next play for him. That’s why Zero of the Black Mamba’s teammates have ever said a nice thing about him other than ’he’s the ultimate competitor.’ Kobe is just a massively talented douche.
And my response to that was:
Leadership has little to do with being liked. You can be loved and be a horrible leader, and you can be hated, even feared and be an effective leader.
The landscape is littered with talented folks who didn’t do anything with their talent. The idea that all you need is massive talent to guarantee success is not rooted in any reality. You gotta work at it, and you gotta be willing to hold yourself and others accountable. In other words, you gotta be a leader.
I did see it and that’s why I keep calling you Idiot.
Are you purposely saying the dumbest things possible as a reverse trolling technique?
But I am an idiot! I’ve been very open about that, never tried to hide it, and it says so very clearly on all my posts. You’re the only one who seems to be trying to convince yourself otherwise.
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
classic
It is funny to see a Boston fan comment on Kobe’s leadership as someone to look up to.. the same dbag that said bynum needed to be traded and got Shaq sent packing.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
So a Boston fan can only comment on Boston teams? Can a Boston fan say anything positive about any other teams besides Boston?
by The Village Idiot on Feb 3, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
well...
for diehard BOSTON CELTICS fans, isn’t kinda taboo to admire any faker player? ;) no matter how talented or good he may be? any faker for me will always be a hated enemy…
Look it
Rondo is as much a leader as anyone on this team at this point, I am perfectly fine with him saying something this. Its not like he’s pointing the finger at anyone in particular, he’s trying to send a message to the team in a time where they need some sort of motivation.
What?
What exactly was Doc right about?
And no on the team cares what Rondo thinks? Doubtful…he is leading this team right now, whether you like it or not. The “Big Three” need him, just as much as he needs them.
About his penchant
for running his mouth out of turn.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
And he's not leading anyone
going to media like a sneek. Be specific or shut mouth.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
You make no sense birdbrain
Naming names would essentially being throwing 1 or 2 teammates under the bus, and would create far more problems than helping anything. Right now, he’s simply urging the ENTIRE team to get it together.
Honestly, this team’s chemistry has been out of whack lately, they need a fire lit under them. This may do it.
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
Your right he shouldn’t have said names, but don’t you think the people who he is referring too(whom ever they may be) already feel that way? I’m guessing they know who he is talking about, as do most of the others on the team.
It's one thing to call someone out in the lockerroom - I imagine it happens all the time.
But publicly doing it – actually naming names – is a whole other situation. You’d potentially be driving down that players stock to the entire league. It would be bad business – look at Marbury. His reputation proceeds him and no one in the NBA wants to touch the guy (he further hurt himself by going off the deep end this summer, but I digress). Calling out someone in particular is bad for business, and can potentially hurt that player’s value longterm. No need to bring money drama into the locker room, look at what thats done to Washington.
I think Rondo was right on the money – he’s trying to spark this team but smart enough not to try to harm anyone’s livelihood.
Don't Trade Rondo or Perk!
Know one on the team will
care what he thinks.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
No in fact he's my favorite C
I just don’t like him commenting on the players to the media. Sorry for being so anti rondo. I love him as a player.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Yeah thats just it, they both need each other. They definitely aren’t successful w/o RR, but Rondo doesn’t become an all-star w/o the big three. So why go to the media and call players out? Even though he isn’t giving names, its probably pretty obvious who he is talking about to the other team members. I agree that if this was going on he should step up and say something, but what good does it do to say it in the media, and not talk about it in the locker room?
The Celtics' Issues Are Two:
First; injuries have disrupted the team from having a consistent bench line up. Basketball is all about chemistry. And in basketball a team’s chemistry is only as good as your last victory. Doc can’t set a day-in day-out 8 man rotation. Much like the Red Sox from ’09 having so many key players going on and off the DL keeps the team from developing over the season.
Second; Two many good players on the roster. Sheed, Maquis, BBD, are all 20+ minute players (Davis isn’t but after last year and the post season deserves those kind of minutes and at the very least he believes he does). With House, TA, Sheldon WIlliams and Scal all being worthy of minutes themselves the Celtics end up with a log jam of talent.
Not enough minutes to go around. They’ll never get a sense for each others’ games and be able to know what the other is going to do before it is done because the only way to reach this point is to log enough minutes together.
Signing Sheed was a mistake. I hate to say this because I’ve been a big fan since his Jail Blazer days but its true. If he could shoot 35% from 3 it’d be different. But he’s shooting 30%. He misses 3.4 three pointers a game and takes 23 minutes to do it.
Abbreviated Version
Locker Room Chemistry not the issue.
Too many injuries + Too many decent players on our roster = inconsistent minutes = lack of fluid on-court chemistry.
Sheed misses 3.4 three point attempts a game while playing 23 minutes. Trade him and give Williams and Glen more minutes. I’d rather Doc just make him play in the paint more or take deep 2’s instead
think about what you just said
We just signed Sheed!!!! …..for I think three years at pretty high money for someone his age…..he has not had a stellar year ….so who in the name of allah do you think wants that contract……..
Are some of you spending too much time on NBA Fantasy league?? Geesh
Is it Soup Yet?
Clippers – B. Davis
76ers – Dalembert, Brand, Iggy
and I´m sure there are more I can´t think of,now.
If we throw in some expirings, to make the numbers work…
People like to make jokes about Brand, but unlike Sheed, he could really become a better player on this team.
Ray Allen, Sheed, Perk
For Dalembert, Brand, Young
or something like that.
It´s just an idea from the top of my head, I don´t know if the numbers work. If you throw in the possibility of a three-way trade,
I think it´s absolutely possible to move him.
Very True Adubson...
This is especially apparent when KG and Paul come back from their injuries. while perfectly capable (at least so in their minds) bench men like Davis, etc. feel they can carry the team and step up their play with increased minutes, Doc must force feed the ailing veterans back into the lineups.
Of course, this is absolutely necessary. We want and need KG and Paul in the starting lineups. However, there have been games in which the team would have been better served starting bench guys….because KG and Paul were still hurt and stilted from their injures. Those two guys needed to get back into their grooves, so inserting them back into the starting lineups immediately was very necessary. Though, it’s hard not to see that certain players (especially after having proven themselves so well at the end of last year) may feel some dissatisfaction and frustration in limited minutes.
I would even go on to say that Eddie feels the need to chuck 3’s at a higher rate when Ray goes cold. TA tends to make more boneheaded plays when Paul isn’t getting it done offensively. Overall the bench may sometimes feel the need to replicate what the starters do, but with limited minutes. This leads to individuals trying to do to much by themselves. HEY, these guys are only mimicking the starters! Don’t you notice that the bench guys tend to shoot themselves in the foot when they try to do too many iso’s with too little passing, and no help defense. More often than not, the starters set this example
With KG getting back to normal, the starters will set the example with passing, team ball, and help defense. When this happens (soon), the bench will start to relax and play within themselves, within their roles, and not get frustrated for more minutes. With this, they will actually get MORE minutes, since they will be trusted…
…leading to an onward cycle of more rest for starters…better production from them….more minutes for bench, better production from them.
to conclude, I think it’s safe to say that everyone can agree to this…
1. When the starters play less minutes, they tend to play with more energy
2. When the bench plays more minutes, they tend to play with more chemistry
We saw this in Washington. The bench wasn’t getting it done…until they were forced into more minutes with Pierce being injured. They actually played even worse in much of the third quarter than they had in the 2nd quarter, but they suddenly picked it up before the start of the fourth quarter. They extended an 8 point deficit to a 2 point lead. In short, they figured it out, when under pressure, when trusted.
That needs to happen more.
Rajon Rondo
well I am going to say Rondo is seeing the lack of effort
terrible rebounding and sloppy turnovers and its not coming from him. Why is it so hard to see that you take the ultimate glue guy, Posey, off the team,.Take PJ off the team, take Powe off the team, and add more minutes for Baby, Sheed…who would in their right mind think that was going to be smart??
Think about it. Meanwhile, KG, and PP’s gimpiness and Rays fatigue is imho causing poorer rebounding and lore tuirnovers(or too many to’s…they had a lot of to’s the last three years.)
There are still posey guys???
Please give it up.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
um i dion't say to bring back Posey, its a little early in the day for be insulted by some on line entity
Rondo think there are issues? We took PJ, Powe and Posey off the chamionship bench and those minutes are going to Baby and Sheed. I think its pretty clear that is a problem
No I just hate
that every time there is an issue someone brings up the dead horse corpse of Posey as a reason.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
You can add Powe to my comment as well
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Let me remind each of you about REAL lockeroom concerns
I am not worried
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Feb 3, 2010 10:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Abbreviated Version
The C’s need Marquis to be healthy, KG to get stronger, Pierce’s knee to get stronger and now for his foot to heel.
Locker rooms always become tumultuous when a talented team with high expectations struggle. These grumblings of Young vs Old and Rondo talking to much will pass with more Ws… if we get healthy.
I would be more worried if no one actually cared
I’m glad Rondo is calling people out and that guys are getting upset during a losing streak, it means they are proud and want to win. If everyone was happy I would be very worried, because january was damn ugly.
That's okay
You know, Rondo can say all that stuff, and maybe there’s some truth to it, but it’s like they say, winning is the best deodorant. You can bet guys had “agendas” on the championships team, whatever agendas mean. What the players didn’t have was the expectation of winning a championship. About the only time that was a heavy thing was entering the playoffs. First two rounds they were vulnerable. Meanwhile the Lakers steamrolled, and became the favorites. Thankfully our guys got it together, but now they have to meet their championship expectations from within and without, and maybe the burden they’re feeling is the one of not being good enough. And of course I include injuries in this, but injuries are an integral part of how any season plays out.
FIrst person i thought of was Eddie
FIrst person i thought of was Eddie
Different, agendas and stuff. Contract year for Eddie, hasn’t been playing well.
Eddie is usually bouncing around teams in the league, every year. Thats how his entire career has been. He might not be in the league next year, at least on this team, he migh be gone.
I wonder if he is talking about any of the big 3?
It would seem not worthwhile to make the comments if it was just to call out bench players so could it be directed at Allen, Pierce or Garnett??
I agree with DA's take on Rondo's comments
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4883285
Celtics President of Basketball Operations Danny Ainge agreed with some of Rondo’s assessment duriing an appearance on WEEI’s “Big Show” on Wednesday, but didn’t seem totally pleased with Rondo’s decision to speak out. On the issue of different agendas on the the team, when compared with their championship season, Ainge said:
“First of all I think that does exist. The year that we won the championship was very special and very unique. With the great teams I’ve had a chance to play on I’ve never seen a team that was more focused and had better chemistry on and off the court. There was no agendas, and I think it had to do with the three stars coming from such difficult situations with great new hope and energy. We had young players, it was a perfect situation, a perfect storm. These guys the next year we start out 29-2 and we still weren’t playing as great as we could have been playing and there was little bit of rumbling that last year. This year I think there has been a little bit of that. I still think it has more to do with, what Rondo was saying, it’s just the attitude and is that a priority for each player to win a championship. That’s what I think he is referring to. If nothing else mattered, to making All-Star teams, to future contracts, to how many minutes I’m playing, how many shots I’m getting. Do those things matter or is the only thing that matters winning an NBA Championship for every single guy, and even the 10th, 11th and 12th guys matter in attitude and character. I think that those things can creep in. I’m confident that we can get to that point this year. If Rondo addressing it, and [Kendrick Perkins] talking about it and Paul talking about it a little bit, although I love Paul’s comment on having the answers to the test we just have to do it. I love KG’s approach where KG just simply says, ‘I have to get better. I have to rebound better. I have to be smarter. I have to execute better.’ I love the answers from our veterans who take responsibility and put it on themselves.
When asked if Rondo’s comments represented a show of leadership, Ainge said: “I don’t think that’s leadership. … I think leadership is how KG and Paul handled it. … Even though it may be true, that’s what all of a sudden brings speculation.”
Amen!
Leadership doesn’t point fingers it takes responsibility.
All Rondo did in his statement was pass the buck and start fans pitting player against player in their desire to prove that someone else is the bad guy, not his favorite player but someone else.
I wonder what kind of reaction we would have seen if someone else had made these statements. It seems Rondo can do no wrong.
Truth is no player is perfect and try as they might EVERY player thinks about their future, yes even St Rondo.
Have I seen instances where players looked like they putting individual accolades ahead of the team goals…..you bet. And Rondo isn’t immune to that either. The trick is to be a team player while at the same time proving your value to the team.
agree...but...
I do like it that Rondo is making these leadership mistakes while we have good leaders on our team. Soon enough this team is going to have to be Rondo and a bunch of guys we don’t know yet surrounding him, and he’s going to be the leader…after having struggled through it earlier in his career (now.) These are good lessons.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- LeBron James hints that he’d like to be welcomed back as a Cleveland Cavalier
- The Phoenix Suns refuse to dismantle their team because of … we can’t tell
- Video: Matt Barnes is legitimately upset with former coach Mo Cheeks
- Yao Ming discusses Jeremy Lin as eloquently as you’d expect
- Paul George (and Jeremy Lin, essentially) will highlight this year’s Dunk Contest
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
