Oh Sheed...how we forget that...
by ducksawce on Feb 8, 2010 10:58 PM EST
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...your role is two fold. If you meet your role at all, then you are far and away a positive. People have been clamoring to trade you away, inferring that your attitude has infected this entire team's chemistry. I'm not going to argue for or against you in those terms. I think this team's ubuntu problems were inherited from last year's squad, and that only through the continuation of standard, injury-free, rotation-consistent basketball will they find their way. Rondo is the new man, and I think it's a stark realization for this teams' veterans, that they CANNOT and WILL NOT be able to take over the offensive reigns like they used to. They must realize that Rondo's increased playmaking abilities not only make the team better, but that they also DEFINE this team. The veterans will find their groove amidst physical recovery and I am sure they will get accustomed to the new style of offense, but don't be surprised by the disquiet, and all of the other mini-dramas associated with certain players' mentalities....
I digress though...
Sheed has obviously not met his role. I'm going to remind everyone what he was meant to do here, and WHY it hasn't happened.
First, he is a bench player. Due to injuries, the Celtic bench has been depleted. For 10 games, Sheed was the starting power forward in place of KG. He is no KG on defense...but neither is KG anything like Sheed in defending true bigs. KG cannot guard Shaq, Howard, Bynum, etc...at least for more than a possession or two at a time.
The point here is that Sheed has had to sub in for KG, not Perk. Although many view Sheed as "KG insurance", I think it is much more accurate to say that Sheed is "Perk insurance" for when he fouls too much. When Perk and Sheed combine to guard opposing teams' true bigs, they throw a wrench into their inside play. Note how when Sheed came in to guard Howard during the Magic game, he forced him into commiting his 3rd foul. This was a trivial example, but it was telling. Sheed is great at coming in after Perk on defense. While Perk spends the 1st and 3rd quarters outmuscling and tiring the opposing big man, Sheed comes in and takes advantage of the little mistakes that the opposing big makes in his fatigue. THAT is the first reason that Sheed looks like he doesn't try hard. He simply doesn't have to, and he often gets key steals and tips. The only problem with his strategy is that recently, he hasn't done such a good job of poking around without commiting fouls of his own. That is not what he is capable of.
Instead, when Sheed truly steps up, he plays brilliant defense. However, you must only evaluate him when he is playing in the role he was meant to play on defense. Case in point for reference...the Christmas Orlando game. Perk did a great job on Howard, but he was in foul trouble for most of the game. Enter SHEED....he disrupted Howard's offense, and he was absolutely key to that win. KEY POINT: Sheed substituted for Perk.
In comparison, here is another case in point for reference...Saturday's Orlando game. Perk did a great job on Howard, and he was never in foul trouble. KG however barely scored in the first half, and despite passing well, he was not even close to 100% on defense. He was obviously still recovering. Enter SHEED...he had one good moment where he disrupted Howard...but at that moment, he was NOT subbing for KG, it was for Perk. In the second half, he subbed for KG, and the results were not pretty. Sheed was left to guard Rashard Lewis. Think about that. Rashard is a very mobile 4 man who can also shoot. He is an All Star caliber player, and one who is simply dangerous all over the floor. He is the perfect defensive assignment for a healthy KG....but not for dumpy old Sheed.
Let me clarify this though, by emphasizing that it will be"dumpy, old" Sheed who will shut down the "even dumpier" and "even older" Shaq...in addition to "trash-can-knees Bynum". When KG recovers (I assume he'll at least get back to 75-80% of his prior capability...around where he was in December) he'll be the defensive ringleader that Sheed won't have to be. Sheed'll just absorb the big-man defensive duties, and for that, he will be TREMENDOUSLY VALUABLE!!
Sheed on offense is a different story. Similar to his defensive role, he should mainly be looked at a bench player. I think the main problem, like many of you have said before a million times, is that he is being used the wrong way. However, I know why, and I know what fixes that pretty much immediately. It should be obvious....it's Marquis. I think there was a very clear reason that Marquis and Sheed came together to the C's this past Summer.
Marquis is the athletic, slasher that complements Sheed's play on the perimeter. I totally 100% agree that during the last month or so, Sheed has been inconsistent on offense at best, and downright nauseously bad at worst. The latest Orlando game was neither. What COULD be seen is that Marquis got his shots off easily. I think Sheed's presence is one of the major reasons why Marquis was able to get hot. In fact, remember how Marquis was like this early in the year?...and as a result, the bench was phenomenal.
However, mid-range slashing jump-shots are NOT at all easy to come by without employing fadeaways....or without using the right offensive spacing. For example, while Sheed was being covered by Dwight or Gortat in the Orlando game, Quisy was able to drift and slash in order to get the perfectly poised 10-15ft jumper. Quisy was remarkably efficient and sprightly, considering he had just come back from an injury. I think much of it was made possible by the spacing that Sheed's positioning created, necessitating an outward defensive recovery by Dwight and Gortat every time the ball went to him at the perimeter.
The reason Sheed's offensive deficiecies have been so glaring over the past month is that Marquis hasn't been around. Simple...as...that. The logic of Sheed's perimeter presence doesn't work so well when the sole slasher is Tony Allen. Tony has done a great job (no, a fantastic job!), but none of us would confuse him for a playmaker. He is a purely offensive-minded slasher who goes straight to the hoop.
Here's an "AHA!" moment. Why has Tony played so well the past month? Hmmm. He gets to the basket with ease, and rarely gets blocked by bigs. How does this happen?...with Sheed at the perimeter of course.
Now, it's great when Tony gets it going, because anything he does offensively is pure butter as far as I'm concerned, but it should never be misinterpreted as bench offense. No. Marquis is the main man that slashes AND passes. If he had been in the Orlando game any longer, he would have likely had somebody like Pietrus guarding him instead, meaning somebody else would have JJ Reddick guarding him. I think we can all agree that having JJ Reddick guard you is good news. It means you're in an offensive mismatch, or you might happen to be open...most likely at the 3 line no less, since the defense has already collapsed on Marquis in the lane. Who is the likely target for the 3 shot, hmmm?
Eddie and Sheed. It's no coincidence that they've been the pariahs this past month. They haven't gotten the kickouts that are required in shooting high percentages from the perimeter. Quisy's passes are like overnight mail for these guys...yes, Sheed especially benefits from this. I've been watching what type of 3's Sheed takes...I wish I had shot charts or something...but even then that wouldn't help, because I'm trying to relate how, and from which direction Sheed gets his passes before he takes his inevitable 3's. I've seen that Sheed almost NEVER makes 3 point shots off of lateral passes. These shots also happen to be the same ones that turn up that awful "groan factor" amongst us fans. You know that feeling:
Some play is being badly executed by the bench, and 10 seconds are left on the shot clock. Eddie or Ray are being heavily guarded 5 ft behind the line, and they pass to Sheed. We all think, "come on Sheed, make a nice pass to finish-off the play!" Instead we see Sheed get the ball with 7 or so on the clock, and we slowly realize...no, we already know that Sheed is about to take an early-in-the-shot-clock contested 3.
BRICK...enemy fast break...exhuasted defensive recovery....NIGHTMARE
NOW, on the other hand, Sheed makes a fairly good percentage of 3's that flow from naturally-executed offense...in other words, "Quisy kickouts". In fact, Eddie and Ray do too. WONDERFUL.
Marquis wasn't in the latest Orlando game long enough to truly get that point where he was throwing those buttery kickouts, but soon enough we'll be seeing those again. Following 3 or 4 easy baskets of his, teams will collapse on him, and then the fun will start.
To cap things off, let me give my honest assessment of Sheed...as he is CURRENTLY. I thought that on defense, he started off well. He, and the bench played well in the first half. Personally, he played good help defense, and on offense, he really wasn't needed. GOOD...that's how the bench offense should be. Sheed should be the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th option.
Sheed in the second half was horrendous. He took contested 3's on offense. His idea of defense was slapping whoever came near him. At the time, it didn't seem like SUCH a bad thing, since he was fouling a sub 60% foul shooter in Dwight Howard. The dice didn't roll that way however, and Dwight ended up making nearly all of his bunnies. Though Sheed's strategy smacked of laziness, it was a strategy. It backfired...and I think he knows he's going to have to man up on defense down low, perhaps sacrifice a few made opposing team layups...yet at the very least, the team won't be in the penalty for the whole quarter!
In the Orlando game, Sheed's biggest fault was not playing tough defense in the second half. Nobody did. Not even the starters. I don't know why. I blame Sheed...but by no means just him exclusively. Everyone on the Celtics except for (at different times) Rondo, Tony, and Baby DID NOT CARE. Who really knows why?
Sheed should post up more....but not as much as he should have over the past month. Without Marquis around, he should have known that his low-post scoring would be the driving force of the bench's offense. Now with Quisy back, he needs to spice things up by starting his game staying at the perimeter and letting Marquis slash without big man interference. When his shots start to drop, it'll be time for Sheed to start cocking those 3's. Whether he makes 1, 2, or none of them, defenders will recover towards him, leaving the lanes open for some Marquis slashing.
It's all ebb and flow, pick your poison, bench-style.
Sheed is key to this offense. He is key to this defense. With one game remaining before the All Star Break, now is the time to quietly sit, and patiently wait until the team gets back together for the next significant road trip.
...Then the jury will be out on Sheed's value...
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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Some good points
I agree with much of what you say. Perhaps the most important thing I agree with is that this team is in desperate need of consistent rotations.
People need a chance to get back to the roles that complement each other and I totally agree that includes Sheed coming off the bench, not starting. Not only is that about coming in with fresh legs to face whomever Perk (or KG) may have worked over for a while, it is also about Sheed coming in to face second and third-string bigs – hardly any who can match up with him.
I also agree that Daniels and Sheed seem to complement each other – that showed up in some of the early season 5-man unit efficiencies and briefly in this recent Orlando game.
This team is deep in the sense that it has many versatile and complementary pieces. But it is not so deep in several particular roles. We need all the pieces to be healthy.
Time will tell. Meanwhile...
Time will tell if you rosy outlook re Sheed holds water or not. Meanwhile, let me point out a couple of quick issues in your analysis:
DEFENSE:
- You’re right that Sheed is much more Perk’s backup than KG’s. That’s problem #1. We didn’t get Sheed just to stop Shaq. (Hell, I don’t think Shaq’s worth worrying about at all.) We GOT Sheed to help stop guys like Howard and Bynum, AND to help backup KG if he should go down. (When KG went down, it was Sheed himself who said exactly this.) Sheed was supposed to be this year’s PJ. You cannot bolster Sheed’s value to this team by retroactively decimating our expectations.
All Sheed can do, apparently, is stop Shaq. Did you see how easily Howard was able to move around Sheed to the rim? Bynum will do the exact same thing. How can you say, with a straight face, that Sheed is a valuable defender when in the same breath you also say that he can only guard “dumpy, old” centers? Here’s the relevant news flash: There’s only ONE center in the league dumpier and older than Sheed, and that’s Shaq… and really, who cares about Shaq?
Here’s a question: WHY is Sheed apparently unable to guard anybody who moves faster than a snail? Is it that he can’t, or that he won’t? Either way, we’re screwed. But my vote is that he won’t… that he’s too lazy to try (based on the totality of his play, which adds up to one word: lazy.)
OFFENSE:
Nice explanation for what has happened to Sheed’s 3 in Quis’ absence. A couple of problems and questions….
- Are you suggesting that for the past 2 MONTHS nobody on this team was able to figure out that Sheed wasn’t getting fed by Quis anymore, and that gee, maybe he should stop chucking contested 3s? Anybody can see that Sheed CAN’T EVER make a 3 under pressure. Surely he’s been told to stop the chucking and post up more. Why didn’t he do it? THIS IS EVIDENCE that Sheed is out of control and/or lazy. (Actually, you did say “Without Marquis around, he should have known that his low-post scoring would be the driving force of the bench’s offense.” So why do you avoid the natural conclusion that Sheed’s run completely out of control?)
- Surely Rondo is the best driver/kicker on this team. Why hasn’t that worked? Rondo’s been playing over 40 minutes per game, often with Sheed on the floor. No, you can’t blame Sheed’s ridiculous chucking on Quis’ absence, it’s just too simplistic. (This applies to Ray and Eddie too, of course… their shooting woes are just that… they’ve both been getting plenty of wide-open opportunities.)
- Tony has been effective slashing because he’s been effective slashing. Sheed’s big has OFTEN been there, and still couldn’t stop him. The point you’re missing is that opposing teams often IGNORE Sheed at the 3-line, because they figure a quick close-out is all they need, and anyway, at 30%, they WANT Sheed taking that shot (unless and until he proves otherwise).
Bottom line: Sheed is key to the O and D — ONLY IF DOC CONTINUES TO MAKE HIS SO. The alternative is to stop trying to get water from a stone and look elsewhere.
bah - its one thing to say he's to help backup KG
its another to expect him to replace him.
PJ was NEVER called upon to replace KG for a sustained period of time.
You bring up the last 2 months of Sheed ‘chucking contested threes’ – yet it has been through January that his 3 pt % and fg% have actually climbed back towards normal.
Sheed should definitely not be the ‘key to the O and D’. He should be what he is paid to be – the first big off the bench. Assuming we can maintain a healthy rotation for a change, most of his minutes should be against second team bigs and situationally against key first line bigs.
Its not so much that we have ‘rosy’ outlook on Sheed. It’s just maybe that our expectations have been and continue to be somewhat measured and that we don’t read as much into body language as you seem to do.
Doc is trying to strike the rock
…and make water flow from it, to quench his people’s thirst as they struggle through the desert of losses. Vain though it might be, by striking the rock more than once, he risks the wrath of the basketball gods who may not let him enter the promised land because of it.
He should find a new rock.
Ok…. Sheed’s not going anywhere in all likelihood. I say shucks to that, but not giving up hope that he will turn it around, at least by April/May.
A very fair assesment of Sheed ducksawce
You are dead on your observation that Sheed may be playing out of position when he is playing the power forward position since he has to defend quicker athletic power forwards, that are tough for him to defend (due to his size and age) which makes him look slow and lazy.
You are correct that maybe Rasheed should soley be used as our back up center where he can play his game of being our low post power defender and use his bulk and length against slower centers instead of as mentioned above faster power forwards.
As to being the key to our offense and defense, I do not know if he is “the key” but considering he is one of our best low post defenders and one of our best low post/ outside shooting big man on the roster he should be one of the keys.
Thanks you fordescort and mmmm.
I’ve noticed that you guys been relatively balanced on evaluating Sheed, and I think I share the same attitude…mostly because we are stuck with him. I totally understand the frustration with Sheed right now, but my point is that I don’t want to bash Sheed, since most of the time it just devolves into chaos…it does no good…he’s going to be here for a while. Though we have no control over how Sheed is used, or how he himself wants to play, we can try to figure out how Sheed’s role can be of great use again.
Anyways, something that you guys said made me remember another important thing that I forgot to mention. You can almost look at these as sort of like…“Guidelines for Sheed” haha.
You mentioned that Sheed has trouble on defense against power forwards. Specifically, you said “quicker, athletic”. Another way of describing these power forwards is, “smaller, shorter”.
When Sheed subs for KG, and is left with defensive duties on mobile 4’s, the defense will suffer inevitably. However!!!….what’s the best way to nullify the effect of this?
Tire that mobile 4 out at the other end. When Sheed is paired up against a mobile 4, then he should stay inside and shoot right over them. More than at any other time, there is the chance to exploit a matchup. I think that’s been the mistake in using Sheed over the past month.
If mobile 4’s are going to take advantage of Sheed’s lack of speed at one end….then Sheed should go right back and take advantage of the mobile 4’s lack of bulk and height at the other. This’ll kick-start the bench offense a bit, and it’ll also tire out the power forwards he has trouble guarding.
I think that’s why you often see opposing players at the same position try to nullify the effect of the other by tiring them out at the opposite end of the floor. It worked when Ray Allen tired Kobe out in the Finals by having a spectacular shooting performance. It also worked more recently to an extent when Paul Pierce had his 35 point game against Atlanta, and Joe Johnson was noticeably more fatigued (and scored much less than he had against us before). It would have worked perfectly against somebody like Dirk, had KG had been around as well in the Dallas game.
The Sheed guidelines:
Sheed guarded by a 4 should = inside play
Sheed guarded by a 5 should = outside play (relative of course…he should still go inside too)
Rajon Rondo
oh yeah, and one other thing...
I originally said that “Sheed is key”….I didn’t say that “Sheed is THE key”.
What I meant to say was that on an ideal bench…the one that we saw early in the season, Sheed’s contributions will be crucial, but certainly not the focus. On offense, we want Marquis to score. If not him, then Eddie. Then perhaps Sheed and Baby. Of course, it all depends on the matchup. Some games (i.e. Toronto!!) Sheed is not only the best player on the bench, but also on the court!
On defense, he is not “the key” either. If that scenario ever occurs, then that either means that it is situational (sheed needed for defense against shaq, bynum), or our total bench defense is in trouble. He is key though! Big difference.
Rajon Rondo
Oh no, quite wrong there
I would not characterize ford+m’s approach to Sheed as “balanced” just because it agrees with yours. I think it’s fairer to say it’s “delusional”. Ok, maybe that’s harsh. Let’s just call it “unrealistic”.
The only decent stat you all point to is his bottom line scoring… and I’m sorry, but that’s just meaningless if to get there he must take so many shots that his %s fall to 40/30. In all other areas… defense, rebounding, energy level, et al… he plain sucks.
And I must differ again in your assessment that knocking Sheed somehow leads to “chaos”. On the contrary… look around and you will see MANY people, including mainstream media writers and commentators, now calling for a trade that sends Sheed out of town. THAT’S the point. If you tell the truth fairly enough, (some… most) people will listen and come to reasonable conclusions. The best possible conclusion of this whole sorry affair would be a deal that sends him away. Goodbye and good luck… go poison some other team. With Sheed’s lazy, unfocused, unmotivated, and completely undisciplined presence gone, this team might finally get it together. (…and I mean each of those adjectives)
Our voices, added to all the others, might be helping to make that happen.
I was once a Sheed defender, btw… when many others were attacking him, including media guys. (This was after his ejection, when it looked like he was finally changing. But it was a fakeout.) We should have know better… he declared himself when he came to town overweight and out of shape. Nothing he has done since then (except a couple of games vs. Toronto) has digressed from the pattern he set then.
Oh, so now truth is established by popular consensus?
The world was once flat.
The only decent stat you all point to is his bottom line scoring… and I’m sorry, but that’s just meaningless if to get there he must take so many shots that his %s fall to 40/30.
The only stats that matter are bottom line scoring. The second half of your statement is not relevant when we are talking mostly about possession efficiencies.
How are we delusional when it is consistently you that is asserting what the feelings and attitudes are of people you don’t even know? When it is you who has repeatedly made unsupported assertions as if as facts about what goes on within the team? You have been called on this repeatedly yet you persist. Is that not closing in on the definition of delusional behavior?
You're missing the point DRJ1
NO. The reason I called mmmm’s and fordescort’s responses balanced was because they actually offered suggestions as to what Sheed should be doing. I have long read their comments on other posts, and this is more long-term insight into how I percieve them to feel about Sheed.
Balanced does not mean right. It means “realistic”. You and the Sheed haters should know that Sheed just will not be traded. It’s just not possible. Who would want him? And really, who would be get back? He is absolutely necessary to guard the true bigs of the NBA.
You guys KNOW it’s impossible to trade Sheed, yet you harp on what Sheed’s done wrong, and you demand he be gone immediately. Childish…unrealistic…unhelpful.
Relating what Sheed has done wrong is fine. It is necessary, especially as of late. I absolutely criticized what he has done wrong. That is one side of the coin. The other side of the coin however is attempting to figure out what he was meant to do here, and what he needs to do better in order to make an impact on the court and help this team.
Both fordescort, mmmm, I, and others have readily laid out what Sheed has done wrong. We also agreed on some conclusions as to what Sheed has to do from now on. That is progress. That is what I referred to as being “balanced”.
On the other hand, all I’ve heard from Sheed haters in various posts is that he’s a “cancer”. Really? How can you say that? Do you know players of this team personally? Have you talked to them lately? No, and neither have I. You’re insistence on calling Sheed out in that way is pure conjecture…at best…at worst, it’s…yes…delusional.
As I made sure to address at the beginning of my article, I’m not trying to judge Sheed’s persona or his influence with regards to team attitude. What Sheed haters have written is pure chaos….garbage. Until someone writes a reasoned article like the one above, I’m not going to consider anything they say as anything more than opinion.
By the way, why would you listen to what the mainstream media is saying? They don’t know what they’re talking about! Their job is not so much accuracy, it is ratings and controversy. Everyone around the league is salivating over the prospect of there being a rift caused by Sheed. These are the same guys who harped on Shaq and Vinsanity ruining Cleveland and Orlando. More recently, they are the ones trying to create controversy about Kobe alienating his teammates.
These guys don’t report….they scandalize, and that’s what they’re paid for. Sheed is in Boston for a reason, and until he starts playing like crap in a playoff game, I and others are not going to stop trying to find solutions to figure out how Sheed can be of use….without resorting to the whole tired “he’s a cancer” argument.
Us trying to find solutions for Sheed’s play give insight. Just assuming (making up) that Sheed is a cancer gives none.
Rajon Rondo
Woah... where do I begin?
(1) It’s USED TO BE unrealistic to think Sheed would be traded. No longer. It’s possible now. I’ve even heard some reasonable specific suggestions.
(2) You say no one would want him and in the same breath you say WE MUST have him to guard the league’s bigs. A contradiction. No way around it. He’s either useless and undesirable, or useful and therefore desirable. Can’t have it both ways.
(3) I’m not a Sheed hater. That’s YOUR interpretation. I’m a Sheed realist. I see his uselessness, and I’m looking for ways to fix this problem on this team. You have suggested several ways… all of which suffer from the same problem: they’re NOT gonna happen. Why would Sheed listen to YOUR ideas, when he’s been ignoring everybody else’s from day one?
(4) If I thought Sheed would agree to any plan (other than his own), it would be pretty clear what he needs to do. But my main assessment of him is that he will NOT change. That’s what makes him so toxic. I’m saying we’re wasting our time and energy thinking he will change. So… let’s try to move him. (And btw, if he’s not traded, I sure hope I’m wrong about him changing… esp in the playoffs, where I think there is some chance for a turnaround.)
(5) HOW are you so sure he can’t be moved?? I mean… HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? You can’t know it. It hasn’t been tried (except maybe for Danny trying as we speak… hopefully). Are you opposed to TRYING?? This I don’t understand. You, duck, have not taken the untenable position that he’s actually a good player. I got that. I think you can AGREE to wait and see if he can be moved for a better piece, or combination of pieces. I am not saying what those would be… or even if it’s possible. I don’t know. You don’t know. NOBODY knows… until they go out and try.
(6) The point about the media was NOT made to add credibility to the position. Let me be super clear about that. I don’t trust them any more than you do. And I believe crowds are more often wrong than right. But…. the spreading of anti-Sheed views does accomplish something. It makes the notion of trading Sheed real. It makes it possible. Two weeks ago, it was unthinkable. Now it could happen. And that… is a good thing. The opposite of chaos… it’s progress.
’Nuf said for now
Your problem is that you keep talking about changing Sheed.
We keep talking about how one should USE Sheed.
Of course we arn’t going to ‘change’ Sheed. None of us have suggested that.
We have simply pointed out in what situations he is most effective. And whaddaya know? Those situations just happen to be the ways that Doc has made use of Sheed when the top-9 rotation is all healthy!
Whether he could be traded? I personally have never said that he could not. He’s cheap at his current salary on an annual basis, but it is for two more years. That makes him hard to move in the current NBA. Not impossible, just difficult. Overall, I don’t expect us to trade him unless we decide to blow up the team and get whatever we can at garage sale prices.
If you think Ainge is influenced at all by any sort of ‘anti-Sheed’ sentiment in the media – then you must think he is a lousy GM. And to call the movement of a bunch of ill-informed media and a handful of fans – all skipping the effort of making any sort of reasoned analysis – towards an irrational position, ‘progress’ is, well, … delusional.
Lol
You just do NOT give up. I wish you were playing!
Anyway…. I’m just saying that you can’t USE Sheed the way you want without CHANGING Sheed to someone who gives a damn. If he could be made to do ANYTHING… it would have been done already. (He did try to improve, to his credit, after the ejection… just couldn’t keep it up, poor nut.)
I COMPLETELY disagree with your statement…. and you must have had a stroke when you said… that moving Sheed means we’re going to blow up the team. Huh?? C’mon… not even close! There are 6 guys more important than Sheed right now… and 13 who are better motivated. With the RIGHT deal… and I agree that’s gonna be hard to get…. but with the right deal, we could get a lot better real quick. Sheed’s new to this mix… he’s not critical.
And yeah… I think Danny, and any GM, is influenced by media and even blogs (where ideas usually germinate, I think). I don’t think of these NBA organizations as monolithic monuments to corporate perfection. Far from it. I think they’re flying by the seat of their pants. Seeing things in the media that were previously unthinkable does something… (a) it naturally makes them think it’s something to think about (no argument there), and (b) it could make them feel like they have cover.
Plus Danny talks with Wyc all the time, right? Wyc’s the money guy… he knows better than all of them who butters his bread. And whodat? Dat’s us. And the media talks to us. So yeah… if Wyc were to see the media AND the fans clamoring to get rid of a certain player (who happened to be playing, shall we say, “not up to his par”?) — which isn’t happening yet, but it’s building — I think Wyc WOULD pick up the phone and tell Danny to start thinking about dumping Sheed if he can.
Btw… Just for the entertainment value… I’m hoping for big news in the next few days. Something to make us gasp. Oh yeah
Delusional?
Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Anyway alot of my comments and those of mmmmm and ducksawce are I think fair and balanced assement of Rasheeds play.
I think we have all pointed out his faults and how we believe he must step up his play and improve his game.
But we unlike you also mention the positives contributions he does and can in the future bring to the Celtics.
Ducksawce takes it a step forward by suggesting positive ideas and ways to use better Rasheed to help remedy some of his faults.
Your tone and view toward Rasheed is totally negative.
I will give you a perfect example.
I personally do not like big Babys game and hope the C’s trade him for a more serviceable power forward.
I think he is a poor rebounder, low post scorer and is overweight.
Now with that said I must admit he does have some positive attributes, he is young, energetic, can muscle players around with his bulk and can get up and down the court and score from the outside with his jumper.
You see I pointed the reasons I do not like Baby’s game and why I want him traded and off the team, but I did not have to trash him to do so and deny him what positive contributions he does offer the team, when I make my argument.
I think if you were more fair to Sheed when you express your ill feelings about him and why you want him traded and off the team, it would make your argument more fair, which it is not currently.
Hey relax
I RETRACTED the “delusional” part. Which was never serious to begin with…… Are we having fun yet?
Good observations
of often overlooked points.
ok, fine, but still,does he have to take those threes? cant he just step in a stride, 4 feet or so for him, say with ray allen, way too many threes while long 2’s are almost automatic for these guys
If only it were so simple
just one stride in and suddenly you have someone contesting the shot!
That makes a huge difference. Long 2-pointers probably have a lower FG% than 3 pointers!
They practice practice practice from their spots behind the line. Eventually they will start to fall. Its the nature of shooters.
Maybe you and many others do not want him taking all the 3's he takes.......
but has it occurred that may be Doc and Ainge who run the show want him to take them since it spreads the floor and helps the club on the offesive end of the court score easier ?
For example;
Lets say Rasheed is on the floor and Howard (a great shot blocker ) is defending him.
Ok lets say the C’s will have 20 offensive possessions and Rasheed will be staked out out in 3 point land every time down the court .
Keep in mind when he does this he will take Howard and his shot blocking thereat out of the low post and with him out in 3 point land.
Now doing that it will give the C’s 20 chances for players like Rondo and Allen etc. to drive to the lane and score, since shot blocker Howard is out in 3 point land having to defend Rasheed since he fears his 3 point shooting.
This fear is in place even if Rasheed is in a shooting slump, since Howard never knows when Rasheed will heat up from down town.
Lets take it a step further say on those 20 possessions down the floor the C’s scored 15 times on clear penetration drives to the hoop (thanks to Rasheed pulling Howard out), but on the other 5 possessions Rasheed took and missed 3 pointers.
Now do we say , Rasheed you took to many 3’s and went 0 for 5, so get out of the game you bum?
Or do we say yea Rasheed you missed all 5 of your 3 point shots, but you provided a net plus for the team since you allowed us 15 clear penetration drives to the basket.
You see just because Rasheed took alot five 3’s and even missed them my example above (which occurs almost every game) shows how he still helps the team by allowing us to get easy penetration offensive drives to the basket , since Rasheed pulled Howard out of the low post.
Again this goes on every game, but does not show up in Rasheeds stats, for which he gets no creadit.
It is for this reason I think all the criticism he gets for taking and missing to many 3’s is unjustified since the bottom line is, he still helps the club overall on the offensive end.
THIS
Is why offensive / defensive efficiency ratings and Net48 are so useful as stats.
They ‘roll up’ these sort of intangible contributions along with all the tangible ones.
And the fact that the C’s starters are as efficient offensively with Sheed as KG tells me that at least some of the effect you describe is almost certainly in play.
Conversely, the lesser defensive efficiency in that unit tells me that, when playing at PF, Sheed is not able to keep up with younger, more athletic #4s – just like ducksawce described.
Defensively – Sheed seems most effective when on the floor with Daniels and other members of the bench. Why is that? Well – probably because of two things. 1) He’s more likely to be in the C position with Scal or BBD on the floor (see duck’s comment’s again) and 2) He’s more likely to be matched against bench bigs from the other team, rather than it’s starters.
Sheed is obviously past his prime – no one is going to argue that – but he’s still going to outmatch most 2nd & 3rd string C’s and PFs in this league.
Which gets back to utilization and the importance of KG’s health. KG’s health allows Sheed to be better deployed. We don’t want Sheed starting because we want more of him and less of BBD/Scal/Shelden against the opposing 2nd team units. Ripple effects.
I agree mmmmm
offensive / defensive efficiency ratings and Net48 are very useful as stats as they give a better breakdown of the impact a player has on the floor overall, including the intangible contributions that get over looked most times by fans.
Groan
I had a whole detailed explanation of the basis for each adjective I’ve applied to Sheed. But… you guys know most of it already, so forget that.
I do think that the last people on Earth who still believe Sheed is a good player are here in this thread. I actually don’t count duck in that…. he doesn’t seem convinced that Sheed’s actually GOOD. Just looking for ways to make the best of him.
===
Say m… something just just occurred to me… We’ve had two major debates in the past weeks, about 2 guys, Ray and Sheed. It would be so ironic if those are the two that get traded. There’s talk that it could happen that way. At least one permutation actually made sense.
My one worry is that the hole we tried to fill with Sheed (the bona fide big spot) will then gape again. Not sure Danny has the nuts for such a big move right now. If he does, hope he has the sense not to leave big holes strewn about.
The Celtics without Ray, though… that’s a tough one. Feels like it wouldn’t be the Celtics anymore. For sure when KG leaves… the era will be officially over. Whew… maybe then I can stop perseverating about this damn team.
Btw
Mutual admiration societies are specifically prohibited, under section 4.8.1(b) of the SB Nation code of conduct. Really. Look it up.
(Reposting here because it fits right in)
Keeping Sheed is the greater risk
All the media and blog talk about moving Sheed could easily turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy. Not because Danny, Doc and Wyc are affected….. but because SHEED is affected. How do you think he feels when he reads people calling him fat, lazy, childish, worthless, or worse? And knowing that members of his family and friends are seeing it too. I can imagine how all that might lead a proud guy like Sheed to feel… unwelcome in Boston? Enough to want out? Yes, in that way, the media and fans may have their most direct influence on events… at least in this case.
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