Live And Die By KG and Pierce
by Jeff Clark on Mar 12, 2010 6:00 AM EST
in News/Links
108 comments
The fact remains the Celts must count on their more senior citizens to get them through this. Specifically, if Paul Pierce [stats] and Kevin Garnett don't begin playing better, then every other discussion is moot.
Considering these two have had physical issues this season, this is where the talk of Celtics problems veers into the "unable." Garnett and his right knee have looked much better since the All-Star break, but Pierce has been wildly inconsistent dealing with multiple maladies.
Rivers said late Wednesday night he's deciding whether to rest them more or let them play themselves back to their needed levels. And the coach knows he has to get this one right or the Celtics will be a snowball when the playoffs get warm.
Peter May offers his own (perhaps harsh) two cents as well.
It also makes it difficult when the two players on whom you most depend, Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce, are mere shells of themselves right now. The company line is that they will get better as the season winds down and the playoffs begin. Watching them play night in and night out, particularly Garnett, one wonders how that is ever going to be the case.
KG has been back for almost two months and still looks hobbled. Guys blow past him -- and over him -- with impunity. In Milwaukee on Tuesday night, he bit on an upfake from Bucks forward Ersan Ilyasova, came down on his back and tumbled to the ground as Ilyasova made the basket (and the free throw). You can be sure a photo of that play is on every storefront in Istanbul.
Garnett has to be right for it all to work. It may be too severe to say he has irretrievably broken down, but he looks old and tired and, well, broken down out there. Pierce gets a little slack because he is still working his way back from his most recent injury (sprained right thumb).
I think that these guys have a point. We can talk all day long about rotations and rebounds and the finer points of the game, but it boils down to how far the Big 3 can take us. Ray Allen has stepped up as of late. Pierce and Garnett have been inconsistent. Some days they are there, some days not so much.
Here's hoping that they can get back on track soon. If they can somehow "get right" on the court, I still believe in this team. If they can't, ...well, not so much.
0 recs |
108 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
That's got to be one of Peter's better pieces.
Unfortunately I believe he’s right on the mark.
Peter May clearly doesn't know much about his subject
First of all, Paul actually had a pretty good game vs. the Griz. Shot 50% FG%, 60% from 3pt-land, plus 3 assists. He was active and mobile, no problem. KG’s shot was off the mark, but May talks about KG being “hobbled”, and his poor physical condition, as if that’s still a problem… which is nonsense, because KG is looking VERY good physically. His shot just wasn’t falling that night. That story about falling on Ilyasova’s back?… So what? He jumped and landed weirdly. So what? It’s ridiculous.
Obviously, May is making things up to fill an article, because what he actually wrote is ridiculously off the mark. The only correct thing he says is that, of course, the Cs’ destiny is inextricably linked to KG and Paul. News Flash: You can add Ray to that list. And Rondo. And Perk. And even Sheed. Etc.
Basically, May’s article is a waste of pixels.
Bulpett is clearly correct about the Cs needing Paul and KG to get more consistent. But again, Paul actually had a pretty good game vs. Griz (to the extent that was even possible for a Celtic that night.) If Paul continues in that mode, he should be fine.
The real problem 2 nights ago was not any single player (unless you wanna talk about Rondo’s carelessness.) It was the whole team that failed to play defense, and at the same time, failed to make their shots.
by DRJ1 on Mar 12, 2010 6:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Koan
Sound of 1 straw, grasping. “May doesnt know..” =how many years has P-May been on the Boston sports beat?
Peter May
Peter has mailed it in for years with ill-formed, and uninformed pieces of drivel. There’s a reason he left the Globe and it wasn’t for greener pastures…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Mar 12, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
KG IS hobbled
Sure, he has good games, but he clearly doesn’t have the physical capability he did early last year? Why does everyone but you see that?
by TheOutletPass on Mar 12, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
I concur with DRJ1
May’s article smacks of selecting an anectdote and acting as if that is representative of your point.
Leaving aside the point that leaping high and coming down on someone’s back and falling is hardly a sign of being ‘hobbled’, it is far more credible to look at KGs game as a whole. And when you look at his numbers you want to look at his rates and efficiencies, since his minutes have been chopped up.
Lets start with rebounding. KG’s rebounding numbers are very solid in recent weeks. He’s back up to a solid 8+ defensive rebounds per game and each week that number has gone up slightly. Indeed, his defensive rebounding efficiency for this whole year (25.4%) is actually better than his rebounding efficiency in 2007-08 (25.1%)!!
Another important stat to indicate whether KG is being KG is steals. A signature of KG’s game is his ability to disrupt passing lanes with those arms of his. Well, for the year, he’s only averaged about 1.0 steals per game (compared to a career average of 1.4). But in this month of March he’s had 11 in only 6 games! That’s just under two per game!
Finally, his shooting. That has been the most inconsistent part of his game. But overall, he’s still shooting over 50% for Feb & March. His career average is is 49%.
Most importantly, there is clear and obvious progression in all these numbers from where he was in January when he first came back.
Finally, the eye test. In the Milwaukee game, KG showed great burst breaking away for a deep pass from Pierce that he finished with a powerful dunk. Earlier in the game he easily converted an alley-oop from Rondo.
So I agree with DRJ1. While KG may not be 100%, nothing in his game suggests that he is ‘hobbled’. Indeed he looks to very close to back to his normal form.
Well said
KG’s getting better, slowly but surely.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Mar 12, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
To mmmmm
Are you watching the same guy I am. I see flashes, but that’s all they are. I keep hoping that I’m seeing him make progress, but numbers don’t tell the whole story. How often has KG gotten the ball under the basket and can’t score. How many times does someone take the ball right into KG and score over him. (Jennings game winner, KG just stood and watched the ball go in the basket, he never even jumped!) How often do players just blow by him? How often does he show on a pick and can’t get back to his man? These are the things that I look for and not numbers because so much of KG is about doing the little things necessary for his team to win. And it’s plain to see that players are not intimidated by KG anymore.
the numbers include all those events.
How often has he missed? 50% of the time – I told you up above.
How often has he failed to get a defensive rebound? 75% of the time!
How often has he failed to prevent a player from scoring? Dozens of times every game!
The thing is – those things happened all the time at roughly the same rates two years ago as well.
You are relying on anecdotal impressions to draw broader conclusions. That is only going to tell you want you already want to believe – not what the truth is.
So now, not only do the pessimists know nothing, but those who write about the NBA
And who have been doing so for a long time, know nothing. Soon no one will know anything except for the 79 optimists left here at Celtics blog - :)
The length of time he's been writing
…only heightens the surprise over the poor quality of what he wrote in this article. Don’t know about you, but I don’t even look at the writer’s rep when I read an article… I look only at the content. I suppose, though, that when you don’t know a subject very well, when you are uncertain and fearful, it makes sense that you would rely on the writer’s name more than on your own evaluation of his writing.
May was factually wrong, in many areas. So wrong, that it’s hard to see what he was talking about. Was it the Celtics? Or some other team with the same name in some alternate universe? Must be the latter… YES, that’s it! That fits perfectly. There’s an alternate universe from which not only May, but you, are able to somehow communicate with ours. I knew it had to be something!
Cheers :)
Again, it is all opinion
Many here, including me, still believe KG is somewhat “hobbled.” It is in the eye of the beholder. Pierce had a good game against the Grizz? Why, because he shot 4-8 from the field? I hardly consider that a “good game” from Pierce. It is all in the eyes of the beholder. As I said, we will get to the point where there will be about 79 optimists here at Celtics Blog who are going to believe they are the only ones right about the Celtics while the rest of the universe will be painted as pessimists, bandwagon fans, Debbie Downers, Negative Nellies, etc. who know nothing about the team. And, more power to them for keeping the faith.
C'mon Vinnie
I can see that even you don’t believe what you’re writing. KG is “somewhat” hobbled? Translation: “He’s not 100%, just close, but i don’t want to admit it.” Paul shot 50% from the field, and yet you “hardly consider that a good game”? Translation: “Yeah, he was ok, but I gotta present an argument, so let me pretend he was terrible.”
KG is still basically jumping off of and landing on one leg
As for Pierce, 14 points and 1 rebound is what we should expect from him moving forward? Good luck with that.
Hopefully
…Paul will get more touches going forward. KG’s looking great out there, physically. Just so you know that, and can quit worrying about that part of the puzzle (at least).
Again -- eye of the beholder
I see a guy who is about 70-75 percent in KG.
And of course, you are the expert on all things Celtics and medical issues
You are a great poster and a great fan. Too bad you can’t be a little less sanctimonius :)
If understanding = sanctimoniousness
Then I’m guilty as charged. Just calling em as I see them.
optimist shmoptimist
Criticizing May’s article says nothing about whether one is an optimist or a pessimist.
If we are going to pick apart and figure out what is ACTUALLY not working with this team, it is helpful to stick to facts rather than unsubstantiated suppositions and impressions that don’t hold up to critical examination.
KG’s health may still be less than 100%, but the numbers – which don’t lie and are not ‘opinion’ – suggest that he is far from ‘hobbled’.
Pierce’s numbers are more suggestive of some issues. His level of play is very inconsistent lately.
Overall, his shooting percentages, after dipping terribly in Dec-Jan-Feb, have crawled back up. But he’s only taking about 10 shots per game – he took around 15-16 per game back in November when he was playing very well. I’d say that suggests he doesn’t ‘feel’ confident yet.
And Pierce is satisfied now standing outside the arc and shooting threes
And, he is making him, which is good stuff. However, for this team to have any chance at anything, Paul Pierce has to do much more than be a 3-point shooting specialist. As for KG, I see a 70-75 percent KG and you and DRJ1 see a much healthier guy. I will be there tonight and will get another closeup view.
Pierce is only shooting about three 3PT shots per game.
He shot more of them to start the season.
He’s averaged about 4 per game overall. But only 3 per game for the last 18 games.
Again – lets try to look at the real numbers before tossing an impression out there.
He took 8 shots for the game
5 from beyond the arc. Not the Pierce I know and love.
I'll be there tonight as well!
I’ll be up in loge screaming my lungs out and throwing up all over people and otherwise acting obnoxious!!!!
LOL – seriously, lets hope for a good game and a return to following the two principles:
Don’t miss.
If you miss, get yer butt back on defense!
by your argument
Dan Shaughnessy and Bob Ryan should have credibility?
Are you KIDDING
PP had a great game. WE LOST! NO! We got blown out on our home court!!!!!!!!! WE WERE EMBARRASSED!!!!! We were down 20 pts most of the game! We were outrebdounded 28 -14 in the first half! WE STUNK. We played no Defense and that includes PP. Memphis got every loose ball. They got offensive rebounds off missed free throws without even jumping. Garbage time started at about 7:00 point of the first quarter.
Unfortunately, everything May said is TRUE!! He should also say that this team, right now, doesn’t care; they have no heart, there’s no Ubuntu: there’s no Celtics Pride! We are closer to the lottery than we are to a Championship.
Losing is EASY!!! Winning is hard work. Right now we are not working hard, that is what I’m PO’d about. Effort is something that can’t be taken away from you.
Doesn't say Paul had a "great" game
…says he had a “pretty good” game.
i'm in the 'reduce their minutes camp'
i love this team, watch every game…
if they reduce KG and PP’s minutes by 20% or 30%
perhaps it’d pay dividends come playoff time -
glad i’m not the one making the decisions – but that’s what i’d do if i were doc
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
plus, KG needs to take a step in
…it seems he’s firing up way too many long range shots just inside the arc – games are won in the paint
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
Main problem with Cs
Is D. They need Tibideaux to refocus them on clamp-down suffocating D. The O will follow. This will break them out of their funk. It all depends on how bad they want it. Two years ago the big 3 were desperate for a championship and played like junkyard dogs. They will need to regain that intensity win it all again..or just be satisfied with one championship.
by Daveonthecape on Mar 12, 2010 9:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The defense two years ago and even last year was solid and painful for many opponents. You are exacly right that we need to get that intensity and energy back. KG is a big factor in this, but so is Perk. He has lacked the fire since xmas and he needs to get it back. Teams have to be scared to face us and they are not. However, if we make a run before the playoffs that shows we are back defensively, then those teams in the playoffs will fear us. It will mess with their heads and confidence. In a perfect world, we annihilate our first round opponent so that the Magic, Cavs, Hawks, or whoever we face thereafter will not be happy to play us. It all starts with the defense.
Cavs Destroyed round 1 and round 2 last year before they were shown the door by the Magic
Careful what you wish for….
"Morning yall up early w/ the babies watchn Dora. Seems Lamar can't keep my name out his mouth maby I need 2 put my sons shitty diaper n it"~Matt Barnes
While tighter D would be good
they are already #1 in the NBA in defensive efficiency, holding opponents to just 1.021 points per possession. And that includes a ton of time missed by their most efficient defensive player (KG who is STILL otherworldly with a .99 personal rating!).
Their problem is offensive efficiency, where they are very mediocre (just 1.067 points per possession, 16th in the NBA). They average 91 possessions per game so that works out to just a 4.2 point differential. That sucks.
agreement here on KG and PP have to be the men
MAybe we could replace them in the line up for a couple starts and use them off the bench say the 14 minutes or so big baby and queasy get out there. Reverse the 4 players roles for a few starts.
The Spirit is Willing But the Body is Weak
And I beg to differ with DR about Pierce. He isn’t rebounding. And on offense he loiters around the perimeter, but not much else. He used to get to the line 7-8 times (or more) every game.
The other big culprit is Perkins. He’s averaging what, 4 rebounds a game over the last month? It could be his plantar fasciities, his shoulder or his head, hard to tell.
They won’t start winning until they start rebounding as a team. As I said in another post, players who don’t box out need to come out.
Paul has had problems
That’s very clear. I would just point out that in his LAST game, he actually did quite well. (See his line, noted earlier.) If that continues, he’ll be out of the woods. Something to look for.
I wish you could define Pierce playing "quite well" agains the Grizzlies
In 30 minutes, he had 14 points on 4-8 shooting (which did include an impressive 3-5 from behind the arc). He had ONE rebound in 30 minutes — ONE. And, he had 3 assists. I am scratching my head tryhing to figure out how that kind of line equls Pierce playing “quite well” against the Grizz.
What is the mystery?
He didn’t have a lot of possessions, and wasn’t active on the boards, but he shot 50% from the field, and 60% from the 3, and had 3 assists. Didn’t say he was “great”…. but he certainly wasn’t bad. I think “quite well” covers it…umm… quite well.
the clue will be when his shot count rises.
Pierce should average at least 15+ shots per game if he’s confident and playing well.
The fact that he’s only taking about 10 per game suggests to me that he is perhaps not fully comfortable and confident.
But you are correct, his accuracy and rates have improved and those are good signs.
I'll be looking for those increased touches
and guess when he sees his %s stay up for a couple/three games, he’ll start shooting more too…. and then, finally, our long national nightmare (exaggeration noted) will be over.
Pierce has never been a big rebounder.
Focusing on him getting just one in a particular game is sorta not there.
I would not say that Pierce had a good game. He was on the floor when the starting 5 decided to stand around and watch the Grizzlies play 5-on-nobody for 10 minutes.
But when he came back in late in the 2nd, from that point he did play a good “5/8” of a game …
Oh good, Peter May is back...
As a fan, May’s writing always irked me. He constantly dwelled on the negatives of the Celtics teams he covered, included tagging Al Jefferson as an “All Star” in sarcastic quotes. Those teams were bad, no question, but as a fan, I want to hear about SOME positives. May almost never provided them.
Ainge’s long term plan was admittedly hard to discern, never mind defend. But Danny actually made it work, though luck, hard work & smarts.
Now May is back in time for this mid-season slump. Quite a coincidence.
I’m not ready to throw dirt on this team. They have a talented, experienced roster and an effective bench. They’ve been there & they know exactly how tough it is to win in the playoffs and how to do it.
Will they succeed? I don’t know, but I’m going to watch.
Boston`s short-term problems are not "fixable"...
I blame management….they were seeing the exact same things we were seeing {and then some}, particularly from Xmas to Mid-Feb.
Namely, this team had no shot at getting a ring this year!
Instead of dumping Ray`s massive expiring contract, and at least easing into the rebuilding process…they wound up eating it!
That was strictly a “business decision”…to continue to have the paying customers believing that Ray gave them their best chance of winning this year. Insread, management should have been making cold-blooded basketball decisions.
Now, even the most "enthusiastic “cheerleaders” amongst us are starting to see the light as to just how far this current team will go….Nowhere!
summer
They have over $60 million tied up into 6 guys (Rondo, Paul, Kevin, Glen, Sheed, and Perk) and that puts them OVER the projected cap # already. You can’t retool this team by using the mid level and vet min. Ray’s expiring deal was crucial to retooling. Now the only hope is that Paul will opt out and then re-sign a cap friendly deal. We will never really know why Ainge held on to Ray. Does it matter though, any answer would just piss off us that really understand where this team is headed.
Trader Danny
Title, what’s funny is that Ainge was on record as saying Red should have traded McHale to Dallas when he had the chance back in the day. So one assumed that Danny would not hesitate to make such a move when presented to him. Either Danny backed off that position when push came to shove or the owners tied his hands and told him he couldn’t move Ray at the deadline. Hmmmm….
urgency
These guys get hungry like 08 watch out. If they don’t we’ll be seeing more of the same every night and I can only assume the same in the playoffs. You don’t play one way all season and then become a championship team in the playoffs. Maybe in other sports you could but a 7 game series in basketball, the better team wins 95% of the time.
by threats13 on Mar 12, 2010 10:40 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Not using Ray's expiring....
Ranks right up there in bad things that will impact this franchise for this year and till KGs contract expires in two more years. Wyc wouldn’t let Danny make any trades that had a chance (Butler/jamison….Hinrich, salmons, Thomas) of being accepted by other teams because he didn’t want to spend the $$. The consequences:::little chance this year and a downward spiralling till KG is gone. Thanks, Wyc!
Wyc
I agree with you about Wyc, he said a few years ago that he was dedicated to spending whatever it took to win. Then they “won” and that approach changed. There is NO doubt in my mind that a deal that would have landed Butler and Jamison in Boston would have changed the landscape of the east. Not to mention you could have brought Ray back this summer on the cheap. Instead, we got Nate and gave up Walker which will be a mistake and the Cavs got Jamison.
Lets trade KG and PP next season
We are going nowhere this season, the old 3 are getting older and will play worst. Lets rebuild the team around young players like Rondo. I don’t know if Doc likes to give young players opportunities to play and grow, but is the only way to construct our future. that’s what most of NBA teams do.
Let's not
I don’t know what team would trade for them anyway.
Lets definitely not
You dont want doc rivers impatient self punking down all the rooks/young players in a rebuilding effort. I am not at all confident in doc and dans evaluation of young talent.
malcontents....the lot of you
i meant development
malcontents....the lot of you
by dasandruler on Mar 12, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I've maintained all along...
Ray will be more productive, longer, than either of the other 2/3 of the big 3 due to his insane fitness and the nature of his game.
I could definately see the team trading KG’s (whom i love) contract as an expiring when its up.
Classic Panic
The same people that say “trade em all” the run is over as the same ones that if they rattle off a few wins think things are fixed. Fans have to find some middle ground. Are things great? no Are things terrible? no This team has had some horrible stretches and lost some game they had NO business losing and with all of that they are still a top 8 team. Do they have “issues”? yes and I’m not sure those issues can be resolved this season. Do I think Danny gambled and missed out on a chance to infuse this roster with younger talent at the deadline by keeping Ray? YES But it doesn’t matter now. This team MUST hold on to the 3 seed so that if they advance the 1st round they don’t have to face the Hawks. The C’s match up way better with the Magic. This summer is going to be tough, based on the players they have on the books for next year they have very little room to maneuver and improve the roster. Danny gambled a few years ago for a chance at a title and it worked.
Agreed. First, it is too late to trade anyone this season. Second, trading is not the answer. Why doesn’t everyone just chill and see how we do in the playoffs before crying for Doc and Danny’s heads? What if the Celtics win 50 games this year but win the title? Will folks here still want to trade Ray, bench PP, get rid of Doc, complain about KG’s knee, etc.?? Hell no. We will we raving about the courage and character of this team, and want to keep the core together to defend their title. So, let’s wait and see how the season plays out before blowing up the team. Cuban wanted to blow up the Mavs before the trade deadline, but instead he made some great moves and they have won, what, 14 in a row?? I still think this team has a lot of fight left and they are too proud to just fold.
Hawks, Magic, Bucks... whatever
Personally, I don’t care. Any team they face will be tough to beat. If they play well, they can beat any of them. If they don’t, they cannot beat any of them. The differences are so small… compared to the overwhelming influence of the quality of their own game… that it just doesn’t matter who they face anymore.
true that
Well said, they have the power to determine so much based on their own attitude, play, and mentality. Anything is possible (loss to Nets, win vs Lakers)
Trading pierce makes me sick,but this is a buisness and as buisness goes if it don’t make dollars it don’t make sence.regardless of what we get in return PP and KG are making top level salaries just to be able to free that money up means a lot for our immediate future,I don’t like the idea of this anymore than anyone but would you rather do the wrong thing for the right reason meaning keep PP ,KG,and ray for some idea of loyalty,or do the right thing for the emotionally wrong reason meaning make the right buisness decision for this franchise and fans but lose the sentiment.I also if we do decide to rebuild want Doc gone I want him gone more than any move I actually would like to see him canned now if that wouldn’t light a fire under this teams behind considering they “like” him so much I don’t know what would
by reggie_35 on Mar 12, 2010 12:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
insight
I live in Sacramento and I have seen the Kings try this numerous times. Get rid of the high prices guys so you have “cap room”. The problem then is that you have to find guys that want to come play in your city. As big a Celtic fan is I am, let’s be honest, players aren’t falling over themselves to go to Boston. The current NBA players, most of them, don’t care about tradition. They want money and location. If the Celts cleared Paul and Kevin off the books who are they getting to come here? Paul should be a Celtic for life and he has earned that, PERIOD. Kevin will be gone once his contract is moveable. It is really hard to be an elite team and develop young talent. (the kings when they had gerald wallace) Doc hasn’t had the luxury of developing young talent post Ray and Kevin arriving because they were elite. Danny needs to start looking for young talent to draft, acquire, or sign. If Paul wants to remain a Celt let him, everyone else can be moved, EVERYONE.
No one earns nothing for life.
tell your boss you earn your job for life based on the past, I’m sure if you are not producing you will be fire, no question about it. Probably is not exactly the same situation with Pierce, but this is a business specially when players are making obscene amount of money like PP. Is either you produce or get LESS money or get fired.
Call me sappy . . .
. . . but I keep Pierce no matter what. He deserves to retire a Celtic and, yes, I do feel a sense of loyalty to him but not so much to anyone else.
Pierce
would probably be more than willing to be traded to a championship contender.
by Celtsfansince55 on Mar 12, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
could be a win win situation for everybody
He became an inconsistent player ( let’s not blame the injuries anymore at this point) as I said before he is a professional making tons of money, the less we can ask him is go and do your best all the time. The effort is not 100% him and other players.
ball movement and TO's
When this team can limit the TO’s and move the ball on offense they are tough to beat. Problem is that this team has had a difficult time doing these 2 things consistently and that means game to game and even quarter to quarter. I also get heated when I hear that some of the players are “bored” with the process of the regular season. I get bored watching a team underperform and watching a center bitch and moan and commit stupid offensive fouls because he still after too many years in the league can’t set his feet to set a pick!
The Sacramento Kings are What We Have to Look Forward To
They had a near chamionship team with Webber, Stojakovic, Divacs, Bibby and Christie, with Hedo, BJax, Pollard and a young Gerald Wallace off the bench.
Then Divac started to get old and Webber got hurt. They were still a 50 win team as late as 2005. Divacs had retired, but they added veterans like Brad Miller, Cuttino Mobley, Kenny Thomas and Corliss Williamson. Eddie House was on that team.
But the veterans just kept them respectable. They went went to 44 wins, 38 wins, 33 wins and then fuilanny bottomed out with 17 wins when they decided to go young. Seventeen is only two wins better than ML Carr’s 1995 Celtics. In the process of declining they traded Webber, Peja and Bibby and fired Rick Adelman.
The 17 wins were painful, but the bad season enabled the Kings to pick up a real impact lotto pick in Tyreke Evans. Along th4e way they also drafted a couple of decent young big men (Hawes and Thompson), developed Kevin Martin and traded for Udrih. They’ve since drafted another promising young player in Casspi and traded Martin for the much more cost effective Carl Landry. This year they may well hit 30 wins.
But if you look at the Kings since 2002, it is clear that Petrie, as smart as he is, was unwilling to bite the bullet, just like the Celtics after 1988. First he tried retooling with veterans. That kept the Kings just good enought to stay out of the lottery 2008. It just made the decline slower and more painful. And it did not forestall the inevitable: in order to rebuild in the NBA you need to be horible for a couple of years. Had the Kings gone young in 2003 and 2004, they might be a 50 win team today.
After the playoffs
I think Ainge will look to blow it up as quickly as he can. PP will have value as an expiring next year. And I think Ainge is cold-blooded with that stuff.
He may also turn Perk into another asset or two rather than give him a raise next summer.
by TheOutletPass on Mar 12, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Be professional and do your best all the time.
Some of this veterans are not doing their best, anybody can see it. what is best for the team is get rid of players not contributing to the team. And use their multimillion contracts to get young and hungry good players, even if doc don’t like young players.
huh
Ainge won’t blow anything up because he won’t be able to! The only teams that would take on Paul’s last year of his deal are the teams that missed out on the big time free agents. Check who those teams are. Who do those teams have that Ainge would want back? Ainge’s only chance to dramatically and impactfully change this roster was when he was shopping Ray’s expiring deal. Unless Isiah Thomas become an NBA GM this summer or the Warriors let Don Nelson GM again there isn’t going to be deals to be made that would retool this roster the way it needs to be soon.
D Ainge is boston GM
and remember guys he was traded to the suns for Joe Klein, and he wasn’t playing bad like this celtics. at the end what really matters is the team. Don’t take me wrong i love KG PP and Co. but the team is more important than players.
Is it unrealistic
For Boston to just sit KG paul and Allen, take their seed and just fight from there?
"Morning yall up early w/ the babies watchn Dora. Seems Lamar can't keep my name out his mouth maby I need 2 put my sons shitty diaper n it"~Matt Barnes
give me a break
Let’s be serious….both stories could have been written by any one of us…Here’s a thought Peter and Steve, do some reporting ! These points have been coverved by many posters and the Celticsblog staff, with far more insight (and research). ….May and Bulpett are capable of better………..
No That's Quite Realistic
Although you have to get them back on the floor prior to the playoffs to knock off some rust.
What is unrealistic is to expect this team to get beyond the second round of the playoffs.
You can see why GMs don’t like to blow it up. They need to keep those season ticket holders and the luxury box purchasers in the fold. The big lie is, well, so long as we make the playoffs, anything can happen. Season ticket holders want to believe that, even though many of them know it’s a lie. They’re fans, after all.
In fact, anything can’t happen. There is no way that this team can beat Orlando, Cleveland or Atlanta in a playoff series, whether they sit the big three or not. And the same will be true next year and the year after that.
I don’t blame Ainge for not trading Ray Allen. Maybe the young studs were simply not available. Bringing in another old guy like Antawn Jamison to put another finger in the dyke won’t solve the problem.
What will solve the problem? Two or three young studs like Tyreke Evans and Al Horford to go along with Rondo. I don’t know where Ainge is going to find these players, but until he does there will be no championship #18.
Ray's Expiring Deal
Please explain to me why you wouldn’t have dealt Ray to Washington for Butler and Jamison. Butler would have been a young, tough, athletic replacement for Ray. Jamison would have given them a legit 3/4 to play and hide a hurting KG and out of shape Sheed. AND it would have kept Jamison away from the Cavs. Yeah Jamison has money and years but he would have come off the books when KG does and that summer they will have millions to spend, but who wants to come to Boston via free agency? Dana Barros, the late year Dominique, or Xavier McDaniels?
age
Yeah but his contract isn’t brutal and you’d use him for 2 years and then move on. Or you could have used him this year and then flipped him this summer. Taking Butler and Jamison would have given them pieces to trade beyond the deadline. Ray was only tradeable at the deadline. The trade would have added depth and bought Danny assets for the summer or next year’s deadline.
I you go up and read my post about the Kings you will understand why I do not believe trading veterans for slightly younger veterans is a winning strategy.
Now if they could have traded Ray and Perkins for Monta Ellis and Biedrins, that would have been a great deal. But I do not think GS wanted to do that., although perhaps they should have.
None of the offered deals would have made them better this year
…and made a difference in the outcome. That’s why there was no deal. I’m pretty confident they would have pulled the trigger if the right deal had presented itself. It just didn’t.
Meanwhile, Ray’s been their best player, carrying the team on many nights. He fits into their schemes perfectly, and he been playing lock-down defense to boot. And now, the Cs get to keep the benefit of his huge expiring contract. That will not bring them under the cap, but it will get them a lot closer to it, and opens up some possibilities down the line. Overall, it was the best decision not to trade Ray.
sometimes
trades don’t have to make you better right then and now, but they can allow you to get better in the near future (this summer)
Yes, normally that's true
But the Cs were focused on THIS year, and maybe next at most. Because of the closing window, any deal had to make them more likely to win this year.
that didn't happen though
The moves they DID make didn’t make them more of a contender this year or next.
They made no major moves
Because none that would make them better NOW presented itself…. that’s the point. Bringing Nate and Fin in was done to make them better right now too… but those are (obviously) minor moves, no big deal either way. As to whether you agree that those minor moves were effective… that’s a whole other question.
Finley and Nate
These 2 can only make a difference if they get to play, Doc rotations are killing them from being effective!
Doc's trying
They’re both getting time… and Scal is not dressing, last 2 games. It’s not easy for Doc, you gotta understand… he’s a major creature of habit.
Doc better wake up
if he doesn’t realize his time in Boston could be up if things don’t improve soon then he is dumber than I thought. It is all about winning with this roster, PERIOD. He better figure that out soon or the fan and he are screwed!
that deal only worked well with a buyout
if they could have gotten that deal done and a buyout of Ray, that would have been a good one because it would have still enable THIS team to compete.
Without Ray returning, the lineup would have had no balance in the starting 5 since Butler is a poor perimeter shooter. This year’s team would be much worse off. And while he’s a good player, I don’t think he’ is enough of a building block for the future to be worth writing off this year.
I suspect that Washington wouldn’t agree to the buyout.
good point
I agree, a trade would have been best if Ray could have bought out and come back to us like Z will do with Cleveland. I think the Wiz would have bought him out. They did with Z.
Btw, about Z
IF we meet the Cavs in the playoffs… we need them to have either Z, or preferably Shaq playing. I’m a hopin’ Shaq gets better quick…
Banner #17
The Celtics won #17 with older players. Naturally the time was going to come when those older players just couldn’t do what they did that year. NBA “experts” said this team has a short window and I agreed then. Fortunately, they did win a ring while that window was open. I don’t think Ainge has handled the closing of the window well at all. I liked what he did last summer in bringing in Marquis and Sheed. But those two moves coupled with the health and aging of the team just haven’t accomplished what I think we were all so hopeful would happen. Props to Ainge for his summer moves, but I think we all have seen enough to know he needed to do something else BEFORE this summer. We were lucky enough to have a huge expiring deal to use and he didn’t use it. Now he is going to be trying to retool this team this summer without the necessary resources. Wyc tightening up the check book didn’t help.
We Don't Know Why He Didn't Trade Ray
Once again, the right deal may not have been there.
You want players Rondo’s age, not players 30 or over. And let’s stop this silly “free agents won’t come to Boston” silliness. They go where the money is.
One thing I will question Ainge about is his apparent unwillingness to look at European talent. Oh, he’ll draft some Turkish kid with a late second rounder but he has shown no real interest in international players. He doesn’t even attend the Benneton pre draft camp in Treviso any more.
How many fine young European players do we need to see (e.g. Ilyasova, Casspi, Beaubois) before he sees the light?
true
Players go where the money is. But if the money is the same and you can go to a warm city, big market, or city that doesn’t have some BS racial reputation then that’s where you will go.
European players are a fraud. If your team relies on a Euro you are in trouble.
You Mean Frauds like Nowitzski, the Gasols, Ginobili and Turkoglu?
My guess is that the Celtics eschew international players because their chief talent evaluator, Leo Papile, is very tied into the American AAU system and has few contacts in Europe.
huh
Dirk has been to the finals once and he wasn’t even the best player on his team in the finals based on performance.
Manu has rings because of Duncan.
Gasol won because of Kobe and because the Celts were injured and couldn’t defend the title.
Turkolu has never won anything but a huge contract to go play in Canada.
Name one team that won a ring because of a Euro?
Yes, but you forget the greatest Euro player of all
Semih Erden !!!
healthy-- manu's game is a thing of beauty....
Duncan is great….but it goes both ways. I think you underestimate ginobli’s clutch game.
malcontents....the lot of you
by dasandruler on Mar 14, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Sabonis
The best Euro ever didn’t make it over the NBA until his knees were shot. In his prime he was considered one of the very best in the world. What other Euro has been able to say that?
Trading on Youth
Frank, has there ever been examples of a team that rebuilds with young studs as you say that ultimately end up maturing together and winning championships together? Currently you have that possibility existing in Oklahoma City. But take for example, Atlanta. They have been rebuilding with youth and seem close to being on the verge of something big but if Johnson leaves this summer won’t that short circuit most of their plans. Rumor has it that Johnson is gone from there too but it just seems to me that it is not cut and dried as just rebuilding with youth and then having a winner. Maybe I’m missing some examples. I would love to have Evans and Horford by the way. Not sure Evans and Rondo would play well together though.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on CelticsBlog
Related FanShots on CelticsBlog
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
