Tony Is In, Nate and Marquis Are Out
by Jeff Clark on Apr 5, 2010 5:28 PM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintAccording to Doc, the playoff rotation is set. Tony Allen is in. Marquis Daniels and Nate Robinson are out. Interesting. Very interesting.
"I told the guys that was the rotation that we'll use, that's pretty much our playoff rotation, and, minute-wise, the only concern there was conditioning, and I don't know if that played a factor in it or not."
Notably absent was Marquis Daniels and Nate Robinson, who never shed their warm-ups Sunday. To their credit, both players were active in supporting their teammates throughout the game, but Boston utilized a five-man bench of Allen, Glen Davis, Shelden Williams, Rasheed Wallace, and Michael Finley. Williams logged a little more than two minutes as the Celtics let Wallace cool off on the pine after a second-half technical foul, but it appears his role will be limited to situations of foul trouble with the bigs.
Allen logged 18:43 and, in a very short time, has made himself the sixth man that neither Daniels or Robinson could cement themselves as recently.
If you had told me at the beginning of the season that TA would beat out Marquis, I never would have believed you. If you had told me a month ago that TA would be Rondo's backup instead of Nate, I would have had a good laugh at your expense.
This is Tony Allen right? The same Tony Allen that played himself out of the rotation heading into each of the last two playoffs? The guy that Danny Ainge tried to give away for nothing this offseason (to which the Pacers ...the PACERS... said, "no thanks")?
Yet there he is. He's an energizer bunny. He defends (it helps that he knows the system down pat). He attacks the basket. He even handles the ball. Basically, he's doing everything Marquis was brought here to do. He's even having fewer and fewer "Bad Tony" moments. What more can you ask for?
"[Allen] just plays hard," said Rivers. "He's our best defensive player. He's just bought in completely to the team and the way the team plays. He's no longer trying to score; scoring just happens. He's trying to be the best defensive player on our team, and I think he's figured out --‘That's how I'm going to play.' He gives our team energy. He really does."
Credit his health as well. He's been largely without injury for the last several months and perhaps that has led to his increased confidence.
With that said, if Daniels and Robinson are both out of the rotation, that doesn't speak well to those personnel moves. Daniels was supposed to be our swiss army knife but instead he's been cut from the rotation (couldn't resist, sorry). Nate cost us Eddie House and two young (if unproven) players. If they don't play, what good are they?
Rivers says Daniels, Robinson out of rotation - Celtics Blog - Boston.com
"Their role is to work every day in practice but there will be a day or a time you're gonna need them," Rivers said. "Somebody will get in foul trouble or someone may not be playing well. Yeah right now they are (out of the rotation). But that doesn't mean they won't be back in it."
So all this could change in a week or so (after all, Tony played a total of zero minutes against the Thunder just a few games ago), but for now, Tony is the salmon and mashed potatoes of our bench. Who woulda thunk it?
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The guy who looks like a Keystone Cop while handling the ball on the fastbreak?
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
....I need this elaborated for me...
What is a keystone cop?
by Tai on Apr 5, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Name from the silent film era
Film pioneer Mack Sennett created quite a few movies that were basically slapstick comedy in the WW1 era, Charlie Chaplin was best known, but the Keystone Kops were a bumbling local police precinct.
Due to the early movies jerky motion, the Keystone Kops name evolved into a generic term:
The term has since come to be used to criticize any group for its mistakes, particularly if the mistakes happened after a great deal of energy and activity, or if there was a lack of coordination among the members of the group.
Google if any further interest
by nba is the worst on Apr 5, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
TA Love
It does speak to the level of competition, as the bench has been beset from the get go with Glen’s thumb and on down the line to Nate’s sudden reluctance to shooting the damn ball, but Tony has earned this and all the better that he’s now in BronBron’s head!
Wow.
TA has been playing with a lot of energy, don’t get me wrong, but if we want to win a championship then Nate and Marquis need to be out there. That is absolutely insane. TA is no point guard.
Nate must really be kicking his decision about now. Same with Marquis. We will lose both of them in the offseason due to this boneheaded move. And for what, TA?!
Who cares if C's lose Nate or Q?
Nate makes an extra million since C’s made the playoffs, He has nothing to complain about. Q was outplayed, Doc gave him every opportunity to get be ‘6th man’ He FAILED!!
I would think we would care considering
Nate could be a solid backup for years for this team. We gave away Eddie and Walker to get him. (Don’t care about Giddens) Daniels at his best is a HUGE upgrade over TA and considering that we could sign the guy for a reasonable deal this coming offseason this is a big deal. TA will return to stupid TA and then we will have nothing. (TA gets full of himself when he starts playing well for a stretch and reverts back to the “I can do anything” TA)
I like the way TA has been playing, and definitely think that TA should be getting minutes if these two aren’t playing well, but fact is that he is too inconsistent and we might have just shot ourselves in the foot.
Safe to say that doc, Tom, the rest of the coaches, scouts and Danny have a better idea of what is better for the team than you, just maybe?
You should play the man who is playing the best ball, and that is TA far and away
by Warrior Spirit on Apr 5, 2010 10:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
dude
seriously.
1) you want nate as our back up for “years to come” … no thanks. i want a guy who can at least defend and pass. I’m sorry but the height issue is just too much of a liability. You should be rotating players situationally to get a Nate Robinson on the court, and cover up his deficiencies, and that’s what you have to do with him.
2) have you been watching Daniels play this year. I’d love to agree that he’s an upgrade over TA, but the proof is in the pudding and he hasn’t been delivering.
3) “and I definitely think TA should be getting minutes if those two aren’t playing well” … those two aren’t playing well, but now you’re complaining TA is getting minutes?? confusing.
by MaineBleedsGreen on Apr 5, 2010 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Love TA, but..
what does that have to do with Nate Robinson’s PT. right now the way TA is playing he deserves Daniel’s spot in the rotation. But the Celtics are not playing Nate for what reason? I mean they gave up a knock down shooter in Eddie House for him, not to mention Bill Walker, who I always liked, and his play in NY is no surprise to me.
Who will be Rondo’s backup, or is Doc expecting him to play 48 a game?
When the man is right . . .
the man is right. Nate has talent, but he’s undisciplined. You can’t get a guy like that and think he’ll fit in immediately. Bad move by Danny.
I’m anxious to see what the team is going to look like come the end of October.
too extreme
idk if i agree with doc here. it should defiantly be someone who’s going to be willing to contribute. and so far both nate and marquis haven’t done that recently. But saying the rotation is set is crazy. I think doc should play nate & marquis more these next few games to let them contribute before setting anything in stone. Nate is too good to be letting him be on the bench. WTH was the point of trading House?!
I'm sorry
But I think that the players have to know where they stand. And mixing and matching players based on match-ups and whatever else just doesn’t work. Playing the best guys as long as you can and shortening the bench so that they too can get in a groove is the best way to go.
I think we may yet still see Nate get some time and back up PG. But I am thinking that Marquis should be on the bench with a seat belt on. And unfortunately for him, he has earned that spot.
idk
I completely agree about marquis. Sad thing is, he’s soo good, but idk whats happen too him. You can even see that everytime he plays he gets frustrated with himself. And nate, i think doc did tell him not to shoot as much, but thats what he does best, and i think we should get him in this rotation!
Doc sucks!
The big problem with doc is that he just rather bench then actually coach guys.
Nate robinson never fit, and that was not his fault but its doc’s fault of never finding that groove.
players are scared of doc, he had to have told nate not to shoot for the first 7 games, cause nate did not shot at all for a couple of the first games.
did you see how good shelden can be in the post during half-court sets! But doc just will not carve up some regular minutes for SW. Im tired of watching Rasheed shooting Fade away’s in the post.
shelden can straight up score around the basket, keep in mind(sheden sucks if he is not next to the rim, and is a horrible fast-break player)
But i’d rather have a little more shelden and a little less sheed.(Big baby is doing work too)
The big problem is that i hate docs inability to maximize a players abilities, coach van gundy made guys better (Vince carter, Matt Barnes)
The big problem with firing doc is that Boston Defence will be no more.
Byron scott would be great, but i have a feeling that doc favors strong defence more than any nba coach.
I think doc as a rebuilding coach would bring back some bad memories.
blame doc guys!
Lol
Blame doc guys. Of course, sum up to us what you’re trying to do and then tell us to do it.
He’s favoring TA over Marquis simply because he’s producing more. Gimme a break. Sheed’s a bust by the standards we as Celtic fans placed on him, but he is better than Shelden, and not just because he’s taller.
by Tai on Apr 5, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He at least told him to shoot as far as the public is concerned
And he did shoot, just didn’t make
by Warrior Spirit on Apr 5, 2010 10:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kudos to Doc for making a tough decision
TA HAS been the spark plug that neither Nate or Marquis could be this year. Against all odds, he has beaten to more high profile players fair and square. His defense has also been outstanding and at times, he is the only guy capable of slowing down guys like Melo.
Did you
ever think what you are typing? Tony Allen stopping Melo? Maybe Allen could use his “athleticism” to harass Melo on the perimeter but that athleticism would be canceled out when Melo posts on Allen. Melo is better than what you think. And by the way your so called big 3 has grumpy knees that would break if Ty Lawson crosses them. If your team is planning another championship, hope that the Nuggets would not be the team your team is running on.
Where did I say TA could stop Melo?
I said he is capable of slowing down guys like Melo. And I was referring to the game a couple of week back where Melo was torching PP and TA was able to make him work much harder for his shots. Or do you not read what Y typed?
Tony Allen is earning his minutes
I’ve always remained hopeful about TA ever since his rookie season, but even I have been surprised at my relief lately watching him enter ballgames. He’s certainly not perfect, but right now I think the Celtics are a better and more dangerous team with him on the floor.
Let’s see what he does now that Doc’s given him this vote of confidence.
by Thruthelookingglass on Apr 5, 2010 6:17 PM EDT reply actions
bottom line .....
Doc thinks Finley is a better 3-pt shooter than Nate.
He’s also concerned about Nate’s defense.
How can Nate get hot if he’s never allowed the time ??
Ainge picked up Nate.. to come off the bench, not sit on it.
I don’t think Nate’s gotten a fair shake from the Celtics.
Right, the Celtics should have waited for more of those 0-6, 1 point games to figure out the obvious: Nate Robinson will much rather play like Eddie House redux than like Allen Iverson redux. And that’s is entirely his own choice.
Which is absolutely mind-boggling to me, given the havoc he was able to wreak two seasons ago by driving to the basket all the time.
Finley is a saavy vet who takes good shots when they're there
and nates impact is less on him and more on the coaching staff. they don’t know how to use this guy. He looks exactly like marbury did
as soon he put on the green he became less athletic, and more of a jumpshooter—yuk
where the heck is the penetration? I thought for sure he and rondo together could go small and run circles around people.
malcontents....the lot of you
concerning TA..
he deserves to be among the first off the bench right alongside Davis and Wallace
in my opinion.
trade???
So we traded Walker, Giddens, and House for a guy that can’t crack the rotation? Really? Somebody please explain this………I get Walker and Giddens, but House? The guy was 7 or 8 off the bench. Now the guy we traded him for can’t be 10 or 11??? Don’t get it……
cooling nate is fine to me but im not so sure about DNP daniels
this guy was so great at the beginning of the season
by friedgreentomatoes on Apr 5, 2010 7:06 PM EDT reply actions
backup pg
So T.A. magically became the backup pg we needed from Feb to April? Didn’t we trade for nate because T.A. couldn’t be the backup pg. Ditto for House……
i dont get it
I honestly hope and think doc said this just to put fear in marquis and nate to try and inspire them into playing with more energy? idk, maybe not but im hoping this is the case in some odd way or i want HOUSE back now!
Jeez
Doc got a +1 yesterday and today he gets a -2.
by Ragetti on Apr 5, 2010 7:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This isn't a team that is jelling.
A few weeks ago in a poll, I voted that we couldn’t win it all unless everything went just right. This is a sign that everything didn’t go just right.
I can’t say I disagree with the move itself, as far as it goes, but the larger message is that this season is unravelling. Personnel moves haven’t worked. We’re now relying on a player whose career makes him the definition of “unreliable.” Etc.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Off topic question for the group (Curiousity and the cat)...
Rondo ALWAYS wears his headband with the NBA logo upside down.
Has anyone heard why?
To prove he’s a rebel, perhaps?
=========
Regarding TA, he deserves time based on his play, but I think Doc needs to be like PJackson and not get too locked in, and therefore predictable.
A review of the Lakers’ playoff bench from last season is pretty interesting…
by nba is the worst on Apr 5, 2010 7:27 PM EDT reply actions
headband
Rondo wore it upside down on accident one game and played well. He’s been doing it ever since.
rondo's upside down headband
To my understanding, rondo decided to wear his headband upside down to make a statement about how much he despises the Lakers. The logo is an emblem which represents Jerry West of the Lakers of old.
by orangeceltic on Apr 6, 2010 7:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
People can scoff
But this is not bad at all. When Tony plays well, the team typically plays well. He is Rondo’s partner in crime when it comes to pressure-defense and than attacking on the break. Call me a fool, but I think TA has turned a corner and if he can stay healthy (knock on wood), he can be a significant contributor in the playoffs. He just has to let the game come to him, which he has been doing almost this entire season. I think the rotation will be some form of Nate/TA-Finley-Big Baby and Sheed. Marquis has been a major disappointment and will have to make a drastic change over the next two weeks if he wants to play in the playoffs. Thank goodness Finley has been so good, hopefully he can keep it up.
Finley
What is Doc seeing in Finley to put him ahead of Marquis? Theoretically he provides spacing, but from the few games I’ve seen recently he hasn’t brought much to the table. Can somebody fill me in because I haven’t gotten to see too much of his play.
Certainly Finley is more of a defensive liability than Marquis.
TA deserves the minutes...
as he has had a decent year and is a player that brings energy and hustle to the court which the team has lacked alot of this year.
Heading into the playoffs we will also need his athleticism, quickness and defensive tenacity on the wing.
I do not like the idea of benching Nate.
I think in the playoffs when the game becomes more of a 1/2 court game and teams slack off of our guards to double down on our bigs Nate will be needed big time and Doc will change his mind quick about not playing him.
Daniels is another issue unless Pierce or TA get in foul trouble it will be tough to see him get minutes.
Though I can see him get some minutes if Doc wants to use Daniels in the back court to utilize his size as a big guard.
Even though some of these players will not play its nice to know we have depth and versatility having all of them on the bench in case of foul trouble during games or if injury occurs in the playoffs.
you know what..
this guy works his ass off.,says all the right things..and never EVER gets down on himself he deserves these minutes he deserves to play
Flip side
What’s the point of playing Robo-Nate if he’s not producing. And ps the trade also opened a roster spot= Finley. House struggled all season.
If things don't work out with Nate and Marquis this season...
…we could always try for a blockbuster trade in order to get Chauncey Billups – if you’ll remember Chauncey was drafted by the Celtics and played 51 games here before we traded him – we might have to let go of Rondo though…
Allen
I have been saying for weeks, that Allen has more athletic ability, than most players on the team, Im glad Doc is giving him a chance, but i wouldnt write off Marquis or Nate. Neither one has had much playing time, let them play more the last 6 games. The Celtics are going to need every man we got, the competition is better than last year, and they are going to have to play there asses off, to have a chance. Like Tommy Hienson, said, they have all year to rest, the playoffs are now. Win or go home.
not to take anything away from TA, hard worker and i loved his game
by x34celtics34x on Apr 5, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Doc
Guys on the team need to know where they stand. Now they do. Doc said last night’s team is going to be The Playoff Rotation. Period. I love this rotation and think it will serve us best.
not in stone...
I honestly think this is a fluid situation. Doc left the door open for that in his comments.
I’m not against it. Tony has been playing well, and Daniels has been a little too laid back overall. Nate’s had his problems.
Finley gives me the feel of a P.J. Brown. Playoff veteran with something left. 10-12 minutes a game is enough. P.J. Brown didn’t always do well, but he rarely hurt you. Steadying influence on the court. I see Finely in a similar light.
Daniels and Robinson will get chances, as mentioned, with poor play or foul trouble by those ahead of them.
Interesting move, but not earth shaking, at least as I see it.
Some clarification...
Tony Allen DID NOT play himself out of the rotation in the previous two playoff stints. He got injured at inopportune times that prevented him from playing. Last year he was a having a good year until the injuries set. The year before that Doc made mention that he would had liked to use TA more, but since he hadn’t played coming into the playoffs due to injuries he couldn’t play him. But he said that Tony Allen was showing a lot of good things in practice, but he had made up his mind already about playoff rotations. If you look at his play during the playoffs, overall it has been a major positive. Low in turnovers, high shooting percentage, and solid defense… and a couple of boneheaded plays here and there, but overall good contributions.
Kudos to Doc
for finally doing the right thing. Tony has earned it, although he hasn’t been playing at the one for most of his time.
As for Nate I can understand him not fitting in coming in so late. We’ve seen that show before.
As for Marquis, he’s okay but I’m not fan. His biggest problem, ironically may be the biggest boon to Tony—he just couldn’t get his rhythm and/or health back after the injury.
Doc is a moron
You can’t shorten the rotation to 7 players…the big 3 can’t play gigantic minutes anymore and he fails to see that. The Cleveland game made it very apparent. If he knew how to coach instead of giving the “we need to get stops” junk he always preaches, he’d realize that every subbing should be based on who’s on fire, who can defend certain players, does he need energy, and will the big 3 have enough energy for the last 7-6 mins of the game? He’s going to have to rely on his bench alot if he wants to go deep in the playoffs. This isn’t the 08’ big 3 anymore. To him it’s the big 3 and that’s it, but the big 3 don’t save games anymore…
By my count the basic rotation is 9
And you would be likely to see Sheldon, quisy or Nate is situational or foul trouble minutes. Though I do not disagree that the bench should play big minutes, bottom line is those guys are not producing
by Warrior Spirit on Apr 6, 2010 9:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
no problem with benching quisy,
he’s been a disappointment this season, esp because looking at his career it seems obvious he can play better than he’s shown..
nate on the other hand, i just hope doc doesn’t forget why we got nate in the first place. you can’t just look past how many times this season our offense has simply died in the second half.. tony allen is not gonna help out with that.
TA is better than quis, Nate has been awful
-Nate has slowed the offense to a screaching halt numerous times this season
-TA has better numbers, and has simply played better contributed more to our win, quis still has talent but he never got back to form after his wrist injury
-Nevertheless, we’ll need at least one of them to play decent minutes this postseason
by Perkinsschool4blind1 on Apr 6, 2010 3:53 AM EDT reply actions
ohh Doc
I like the defense of tony but I guess Nate should get more playing time. He had his moments and would become better in the last season games. Daniels instead had enough time but also had a bad injury – I would accept that he will be out of the rotation. He definitely has a weak energy and hurt us defending the stars. He is to soft for our strong defense and not good enough at the offensive end. TA for Daniels – that should be a good plan.
ohh Danny
Now it looks like moving Eddie was a mistake. Getting Finley is Danny’s attempt to recover. This summer and the next couple of years looks like a roll of the dice. Ainge knows talent but some of his trades over the years. I don’t think another KG is going to fall into his lap.
Nate is an energy guy...
Who has changed a couple of game’s momentum since the trade. There’s no reason he can’t get minutes in the playoffs, and I think he will…
by nba is the worst on Apr 6, 2010 8:35 AM EDT reply actions
no green light for Nate; the contradiction of Doc
Nate came from a loosey goosey style in NY where he could launch whatever shot he wanted to when he wanted to. He’s now playing in a system where Glenn “Mind Freak” Rivers wants to control everything. Exactly how Danny thought this would work is puzzling. Nate is not a distributore; he’s a scorer. We brought him here to be the mini- microwave but Doc immediately tried to tame Nate and make him play within the system. I thought Nate’s best games were his first game where he didn’t even know the plays and then the Detroit game where he won it for us. Every since then he’s been playing cautiously. He’s tryng to hard to fit in and to please Doc and for that I place the blame squarely on Doc. Marcus Banks was a talented offensive player and Doc never figured out how to use him. Heck, look at Ray Allen. He can go games where he only gets 5 or 6 shots. I really don’t think that Doc is a good offensive coach and I think his offense is too predictable. That’s why I was excited when we got Nate. I thought he would bring an air of wildness to our O which we needed. Unfortunately Doc has taken out of Nate the very thing that we wanted when we acquired him. Bravo Doc!
Come On!
Doc even let Nate teach a couple of knick sets to our guys to get him comfortable. Point blank to be the point guard you need to know the plays to give the ball to your teammates, you can play wild too, but you still need to know where your guys are and where they are going
by Warrior Spirit on Apr 6, 2010 9:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
not doc's fault
Nate has the offensive talent, but he needs to realize that he now plays in an actual and real basketball team, not just the Knicks. Doc took him out of some games for boneheaded plays that are even worse than some things that TA does (i.e. shooting a transition three with 24 seconds left on the quarter, leading to a 3-point play on the other end) I’m pretty sure he’s going to play in the playoffs because of foul trouble and other stuff, but I don’t think I trust him with being a backup PG for this team. He has clearly fallen in love with his 3 pt. shot, and he is not utilizing one of the main reasons the c’s got him – his ability to finish at the rim.
The teeth gnashing in this thread is comical!
Grow up people. This is Doc Rivers we’re talking about. His rotation changes game-to-game. Nate and Marquis will get their chances. Quit yr moaning! This is nothing.
And enough about Eddie House. The guy was playing pretty bad this year, which is why he was expendable. Even though Nate has struggled recently, he’s much much better than House…as are TA, Quisy, and Finley. Moving House, even for someone not currently in the rotation, was a simple case of addition by subtraction.
TA’s in the rotation for a simple reason: he defends. Unfortunately, not too many other Cs defend, which makes Tony that much more valuable. With Rondo/Paul/Ray on the floor with him, he’s not bad at PG either.
This is a good moment for TA after the countless hours of hard work and sacrifice as he’s rehabbed from several injuries. He’s finally bought into the role that Doc’s been selling him the last 3 years, and he’s been the bench’s most consistent performer (which isn’t saying much, but it’s true nonetheless).
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Apr 6, 2010 10:29 AM EDT reply actions
hmmm, let's wait and see
Yeah I think Doc is sending a message here more than anything, rewarding TA for his new approach to the game and letting Nate and Quis know they’ll have to earn their minutes.
I would not be surprised if the opposite decision appeared to go into effect just 2 or 3 games from now.
That said, if it does stick, I like how TA earned this respect, but I hate that he can’t dribble or shoot. Those are pretty basic skills to lack for the smallest guard in that second team.
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