The NBA's Credibility Problem
Regardless of what you believe about the NBA, the league clearly has a credibility problem. Consider the results of this poll.
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The NBA has become a joke.
the results here in boston are probably skewed after last night, but i believe completely the NBA has results it wants – mainly that certain series extend as long as possible – and will take steps to make sure it happens. I do not think that consists of David Stern or anyone else calling up an official and saying, “Make sure team X wins.” But I think the NBA knows very well how certain officials will call games, which ones will be over-sensitive to crowd noise, to certain coaches, etc. and based on that they assign the officials they want. it is not a guarantee, but it is the best way possible the NBA can to achieve the results it wants.
Think about what we know – the NBA changed the first round format mid-season because at the time, it looked like its marquee series, Lakers-Kings, was going to happen in the first round. We have games like last night, we have games like Lakers-Kings gm 6 2002, and many others – not once as the one-sided officiating helped the team that the NBA would not want to see win (the help always seems to be for the home team, and the help always seems to ensure a series goes beyond 4 or 5 games). we also know tim donaghy bet on games, and was confident enough to pass info on to the mafia – not because he fixed outcomes, but because he knew how these refs think, how they act, etc. if he knows it, you can bet stern knows it 10-times over. and lastly, we have heard refs say that before games, and even at 1/2 time, they have received instructions from the NBA on what to be on the look out for. Why does Perk get called for moving screens every game, while it seems no one in the NBA sets a good screen – because the refs are told to look out for it. So they do. How David Stern has managed to essentially bury the Tim Donaghy scandal is beyond me.
and lastly, how is someone like Joey Crawford allowed to officiate games? We know about his incident with Tim Duncan, we know about his made-up call in the Suns-Portland series this year. last night, with his T of Rondo, we saw he hasn’t changed, hasn’t learned anything. Still an arrogant, bully, who instigates arguments, and then uses the power of the technical to hide behind.
I don’t know, I would think the NBA would rather have a celtics/lakers final at this point, then a magic/lakers finals. I would have bought this more in the Cav’s series. I’m not saying the officiating hasn’t been suspect becuase last night’s game was poorly reffed, but I’m sure what the gain is by having the magic win.
Only 1 game
C’s can still win in 6 OR 7.
the examples are numerous – Game 2 ’08 finals, Game 5 ’06 finals – compared with those 2 the abovementioned Game 6 ’02 is evenly called – at least in ft margin…
by nba is the worst on May 27, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
money
each game brings in “X” amount of dollars for everyone. Don’t players make playoff bonuses for games? (I know this used to be the case, and Bill Russell even said it was one of the reason he was so determined to win every year), also don’t the refs make extra money on playoff games? And forget about it with the League, the playoffs are their cash cow. You think the league isn’t calculating how much money it lost with just the Magic in particular, they played only 8 out of a possible 14 games through the first two rounds. Then think of how many other series went quickly this year!
Stern has always protected the bottom line, not the integrity of the game.
by MaineBleedsGreen on May 27, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
one other point – when are officials assigned games and how do the assignments work? that is crucial. if it is basically on a game-to-game basis in the playoffs, that screams that the NBA is picking and choosing which refs it wants for certain situations.
Influenced, But Not Fixed
I’m sure some players shave points, etc, and I’ve been told the players get paid a bonus for each game they play in the playoffs. It makes sense, but it’s also an obvious incentive to let a series run to six games.
But. Some years ago, a friend of mine went to a boxing match in Detroit. He had good seats and wound up sitting next to a guy who worked for the boxing commission. They talked about baseball and basketball as well as the fight. My friend said he thought maybe the Pistons (who hadn’t been blown up yet) would go all the way.
The other guy said no. He said that although the NBA wasn’t fixed like boxing is (LOL), there’s a lot of influence on it, especially in terms of what fouls get called, especially early in the game. One team getting penalized correctly in the first half can usually decide a game without being obvious — you take away possessions, you cause foul trouble, you get them out of their rhythm.
My friend was skeptical, but the guy said that a lot of gamblers know the ‘real’ spread. He said the series the Pistons were playing (against Chicago?) would go to six games, and then they’d get bounced by . . . Miami, I think it was. (I have a terrible memory for the specifics.) This didn’t seem likely, but when my friend told me this later, I made him repeat it all and wrote it all down. I was skeptical but interested to see.
I forget all the details now, but it all played out exactly like this guy predicted. Does this prove anything? No, of course not. I started watching more carefully, though, and I think it’s true. I think the players and coaches know but aren’t allowed to complain, and I think you can see sometimes when they beat the other team and the unfair calls and are a little extra-pumped about it. And maybe it all works out, for most teams, on average.
Howard clearly got away with at least four flagrant fouls in Game 4. One of them, the league called long after the game ended. Last night’s game was a professional wrestling match. Just ridiculous. I shut it off before halftime. I don’t hate the Magic, but I don’t want to watch another game with them in it this season. Maybe if the Suns get past the Lakers, I’d watch for the Suns . . . if the officiating is passable.
But, yeah, the last two games were handed to the Magic, and not by accident. Game 4 wasn’t too bad, but last night was a brawl. I’m hoping not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the C’s beat the everloving crap out of the Magic in the next one. Stern had better be intervening behind the scenes right now.
Watching Game 5 was like watching Rollerball. Period. I’m wondering who will be our “Jonathan E” to Stern’s John Houseman. Or if we have one (or three or twelve).
by Thruthelookingglass on May 27, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Top 5 Signs the NBA might have credibilty issues (ala David Letterman)
5.) Joey “The Weasel” Crawford woke up this morning with a bloody horse head in his bed …..with a note that says “It must go 7 Joey…..or else”
4.) Mike Breen was overheard telling Mark Jackson that he called Stern this morning telling him that he needs more money or he can’t keep covering this crap up by sounding excited about the Magic on every single play….
3.) Vin Baker was advised by Tim Donaghy to enroll in NBA Referee School to help him pay off drinking debts……. TIM D says…….. “I can help you Vinnie – trust me”
2.) The 2010-2011 Season will feature “Bookie Bobblehead Night” at selected venues throughout the year….tickets are half price …if you wager enough on the game!!!
and the number one reason the NBA may have credibilty issues!!!!!
1.) The NBA is considering changing it’s slogan to
“Where Amazing Happens – but let’s not ever discuss it in public”
Is it Soup Yet?
So is that how the Celtics won the title in 2008?
… And to be fair, the Lakers in 2009?
Point being, the credibility issue calls into question one’s team’s victories as well as its losses …
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Gil, honestly I do not remember being as shaken by those Finals as by what I saw last night.
by Thruthelookingglass on May 27, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I admit it looked bad
And it seems suspicious.
But we have to be careful of confirmation bias. We need to recall the times when events occur contrary to our theories (such as the multitude of sweeps in earlier rounds – do you know how much the teams lost in revenue? For the Lakers, it’s estimated that each game at Staples is worth $1.5M).
And where’s the outrage when a team you are not rooting for and a team you dislike gets shafted by the officiating? Where are the boycotts then?
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
You are being a bit snarky
What people want is a product that looks legit so a fair game and fair outcome can occur – I don’t want us ever having an advantage from referee deliberate bias …we all want fair competition and right now i seriously question the legitimacy of the NBA.
think Boxing …..this isn’t new or unheard of
Is it Soup Yet?
Then you must question the legitimacy of the 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 NBA Champions
Which actually is quite fair, considering the Miami Heat win in 2006.
It would be too convenient to pick and choose games or series and say “yes, it happened here, but not here”.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
I do question it.....more everyday
And I am sad about it and hope that I am completely delusional
Is it Soup Yet?
I just want to know how deep it goes
There’s a level of manipulation that I’m willing to tolerate, like Stern chooses certain refs that he knows will officiate a certain way, but the refs don’t know that, they just do what they do. I hate that, but I can still live with it, and hope they change.
But if there’s a secret meeting or message that says “Make sure the Magic win” … the NBA is dead to me.
Too bad we will probably never know.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
We may find out someday
Somebody may step up, spill the beans someday. Would be great.
Totally agree with Po re what we fans really want… fair, unbiased officiating. When we get the benefit of a bad call (sometimes), I make the excuse that ‘well, that makes up for the other ones we got shafted on’, but that’s a terrible way to experience any sport, and I know it. I’d rather have the call go against us if it’s correct (and they’re all mostly correct).
Best idea is to add a video ref (instead of one of the floor refs), who can sit there with full instant replay to back-up or override any floor call. Instantly, the refs’ eyesight will = our own (in TV-land), and the vast majority of bad calls disappear. Easy to do, since the tech is already in place… it’s just that the will is not. Maybe someday….
disagree DRJ - this is something I've been thinking about a bit...
The BEST idea (as in the fairest) for officiating is to have the players call their own fouls, violations, etc. People tend to dismiss this idea because either
A) they think it would never work – players would disagree too much OR
B) they want to believe in the NBA’s marketing mythology about games being “battles” players being “warriors” and the “NBA Champion” truly being the greatest team on the planet, blah bla bla…
If you buy the whole objective sports champion thing (as in: you think that pro sports are in the business of searching for the absolute best team there is so that they can be rewarded) then you probably would never go for self-refereed NBA games.
But if you’ve ever played pickup basketball then you already know: the games almost always end up well officiated. This is for a million reasons that I won’t go into now (who has the time?) but they basically boil down to: the players’ perspective on all levels is superior to the refs’ and the democracy of 10 men on the court would never let Lebron or Kobe or whoever get star treatment.
And as an extra bonus to really ensure that the games are the most fairly called that is possible: you have 2 or 3 “observers” who are not allowed to make their own calls but can be appealed to settle disagreements. In this system the referees only make the call when the players don’t agree. This system has to be the fairest.
by milt palacio's shot on May 28, 2010 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry, but this is laughable
the best solution would be to have robots referee the league and that is basically the complete opposite of your suggestion.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
2007 lebron was given a pass to the NBA finals
2008 the lakers were given a pass to the finals (I will never forget the brent foul on fisher that they never called).
And Game 2 of the 2008 Finals was given to the Celtics
:)
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on May 27, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe, don't recall it per se, but if Kobe was fouled by
Howard the same way Howard elbowed Davis, or the way he’s thrown Pierce to the floor, he’d definetly suspended.
by eastie Rich on May 27, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't agree, Richie.
Kobe probably is the least coddled of the stars out there. If Howard elbowed the messiah, he’d probably be banned for the playoffs. If a token player elbowed the messiah, he’d probably get 25 games. That’s why the red sea parts when the messiah drives the lane with no dribbles.
It would be great to see one game called pre-Jordan. The game would probably last 4-5 hours for the stoppages for traveling, palming, and the stars not getting their pet calls….But all of this elbowing crap would end because the players would police themselves.
by Finkelskyhook on May 28, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Goodby NBA League Pass
Although i am a dihard C’s fan and i hate to do this but, I am done supporting the NBA. I will not renew my league pass next year. Not buy any more NBA gear, Not buying murchandise advertized during the games. The NBA where cheating happens!
Was there a "Hell Yea" option on the poll
above. I must have missed it. It wasn’t more than a minute or two (literaly 120 seconds) into last nights game that I could tell the fix was in. Don’t believe me? Watch it again.
This type of shi* usually happens to a second tier team ala Phoenix, Dallas, Portland and Sacramento. We’ve all witnessed it before when it’s happened to another team. But it sure is shocking when it happens to yours.
What a farce. I’m so glad I only went to less than a dozen games last year (down from 10 yr STH). I won’t give this league another dime.
Celtics are out
It was a hard game to watch. I was stunned early on by the ticky-tack fouls the refs were callings… especially the black bald guy. Even in slow mo it was tough to see, let alone see it clearly. After Rondo got his second, I saw the message… play off Orlando. Well, the refs got the results they wanted.
The Celts started to play soft and Orlando started to score. Don’t get me wrong, they got open in many cases. But they weren’t being challenged all that hard either. Orlando then started getting more physical. And why shouldn’t they? They were given a free pass by the refs. But that wasn’t enough and so it continued…..
… Perkins with a double tech (if it was that easy to get techs, half the Orlando team should have been tossed out in the first two games.)
… Davis gets nailed and no seems to care until he’’s ready to fall into the Orlando bench. IMO, he ran into the ref just so he could show him he was hurt. But then I could be wrong. I don’t think Davis knew where he was when they had him sit on the court.
… Then Daniels went down the the second concussion (I’ve never seen two concussions in a pro game, let alone in the same half.) If any could be forgiven, this one could. But not the way the refs were calling it.
With three minutes left in the third I knew… the game was over. Orlando would win and the only question would be by how many.
I tuned out before the end of the game. And I don’t intend on watching game six. The Celts will be playing like they’re on thin ice. Even if Davis and Daniels comes back, they won’t be the same, Wallace doesn’t look good and they’ll be playing with 4 1/2 players on the court. It’s no dig on the Celts, just that you can’t play your normal style. And the defense will be soft again. Boston has no choice.
I’ve never rooted for LA in my life. Never. NEVER! Until now.
Go LA! Beat Orlando! Because the refs have given the Magic their magic.
priorities man
even if the refs hand orlando this series on a silver platter you’ve got to root for them against LA. It’s just what C’s fans do.
by milt palacio's shot on May 28, 2010 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions
A little overboard there, donedeal?
Way, way overboard.
Just realistic
Celtics don’t have the “bigs” to man up against Howard. And the ones they do have are walking wounded.
If the refs allow the players to play, Boston is in for a long night. If they call the game tight against Orlando, Boston could pull this out. But imo, the calls won’t be coming since the refs don’t want to be part of the controversy again. They may call it tight on Howard since he’s leaving a trail of bodies now, but it won’t change the dynamics much.
Watch for Doc to go small with quicker shooters. They really need Ray Allen to have a big night..
Disagree completely
If the refs let the players play then the Celtics own this series.
by milt palacio's shot on May 28, 2010 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions
But how to fix?
I’ve suggested a boycott of all advertised products on ESPN / TNT and a letter writing campaign until the league and it’s sponsors address the referee crisis of confidence. Hit ‘em where it hurts, the bank. Because it’s developed into more about money than the athleticism and teamwork. (This isn’t breaking news, I know.)
But how to create some kind of double blind system where the refs on court don’t have final word in bad, game changing calls?
Maybe, (and this theory/solution definitely needs developing) some sort of system like in figure skating (hear me out), you have not only the refs on the court, but a panel of independent refs/judges making the call from monitors, and hotkeys to make different calls, in collusion with a randomizer that picks which majority decisions gets passed down to the refs on court in real time.
…Or something. Hire Ralph Nader. He almost seemed willing to do it for free after the 2002 Kings Lakers screwjob.
But it’s coming to a severe crisis point of confidence for fans, like 1919 Black Sox and the Quiz Show debacle of the 50s (and others). Either step in now to return some degree of pureness of sport, or make it the NBE, National Basketball Entertainment.
i really think after perk left last night -
- doc should’ve said ’you know what?
scal, you’re in –
daniels, you’re in –
sheldon, you’re in –
finely, you too – and
nate – get up, you’re in -
and you’re all playing the rest of the game, but i don’t want you to block shots or even try and score – play this out – make a statement – the more points orlando gets, the better -
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
I think he should have put all the subs in too.
Not leave one single starter on the floor for the rest of the game. I would have had them compete, but that game was lost – the refs were not going to let us back into the game and there was no reason to play your starters while it’s apparently legal to knock them unconscious and knock their teeth out.
Would have made the point though.
That would have been pretty funny.
@mcpu40 totally agree
i’m tired of complaining about Howard’s elbow i think i will start ranting if this Celtics organization wont do something about it, Stand up and be counted, make a statement bullies!
DOC should have stepped up and did something about it! he doesnt want to get fined?..i can take that but at least do something radical that the NBA will notice how everyone is so disgusted with them!
I think the best thing to do in game 6..AND EVERYONE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! (FANS,Coaches, PLAYERS!!!) DANNY why are you not complaining???
-FANS hold their banners saying something like “ELBOWMAN, Where ELBOWS are faster than a speeding bullet”
-Whack Howard! like Sheed chopped Z’s head and it bled like shoite. (it’s okay since Z started it and so Howard). we have bench players can do that to howard to make a statement that “hey NBA we are so disgusted how you allow howard’s elbow hit someone and worst injure players and get away with it”!
but what i really feel right now, these so called “Celtics bullies” got bullied, DO FREAKIN SOMETHING ABOUT IT! you’re the veterans. you got pushed and got bullied!!! right now you guys are bunch of Pau Gasols!
you know the drill, you know how to play it, whack that ELBOWMAN!
So lemme ask you, Why do you wanna trade Ray!?!
Silly idea
What statement are you making there?
That a bad call is made so you quit?
Ridiculous.
by TheOutletPass on May 28, 2010 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Until last night, I believed the refs tried to influence but could not control games.
Last night I thought the refs definitely tried to control the outcome. It was foolish. The results probably would have been the same, and the N.B.A. would not have the appearance of malfeasance. Teams can overcome the influence of the refs. But the effort it takes is enormous and definitely not fair to the players or fans. (The fans do NOT pay money for tickets in order to watch the refs play their games!) If the N. B. A. truly wanted to put a fair contest out there, they would at the very least monitor the referees closely and overturn obviously bad calls, with consequences going to refs who repeatedly make bad calls. A better solution would be to do away with the “tenure” system that seems to exist (Union?), and as a ref starts to slip in his judgement he should be retired from actively participating in calling games.
Might not be the league
Rush’s bias against the celtics we have seen before – and washington has been little used.
But the logical thing to fix this would be independent oversight of the officials – and a change in the complain and be punished/fined BS.
But I won’t hold my breath…
(This is why I use this screen name on line – I have been mad about this forever)
by nba is the worst on May 27, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
High school refs would have done a better job.
Why are these guys paid so much when they can’t tell a foul on side of the court from the other?
some national polls
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/13443985/
http://adage.com/article?article_id=127759
we’re not the only ones
Really does feel like we're headed for a tipping point on NBA refereeing
Nobody trusts Stern’s little cabal.
by TheOutletPass on May 28, 2010 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Reggie, nice to see. It’s hard for me to believe that in a nation of 300 million (and I’ll take foreign refs too, I don’t mind) we can’t find a better, more impartial referee than Joey Crawford. Or that we can’t find a more respected referee to replace any number of NBA referrees with troubling histories.
I can’t believe it unless impartiality and the ability to make the right call are not the top priorities in the job description.
by Thruthelookingglass on May 27, 2010 7:41 PM EDT reply actions
While I agree with you all(Extending series makes money)
NBA wants Celtics-Lakers
And as we all saw last night. NBA gets what it wants
I am Black.
The last time he was on, I brushed the show aside
but tonight I am going to listen to Tim Donaghy on The Celtics Late Night Show with new ears. You can also get the show (at 9:00 p.m.) through Gino’s Jungle site.) I feel that I have been very naive.
Blow out on the horizon
I’m watching EJ and the gang at the Lakers/Suns pregame. The Atlanta studio is saying the Celtics will win. Barkley and Miller are saying the Celtics. I get the feeling the league has told them what to say because their “explanations” don’t make any sense.
Personally? Unless they get into a shooting match Orlando will blow out the Celtics and Howard will get 40+ points easy.
The deep bench disappeared in yesterday’s game and won’t be back. I don’t expect Davis to play and if he does, he’ll be slow and ineffective. Wallace will be no different.
Thanks refs. You’ve done a terrific job.
I believe that the games are influenced by refs but not fixed.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
Yes, intimidation is the key to domination.
Again blaming the refs
Games 1 and 2 were badly reffed for the Magic, teams just have to play through the bad calls. I don’t see the refs forcing Ray Allen and Pierce to miss shots, with or without the refs the Magic just played better last night.
Nope. Just giving due credit
The Celtics defense turned into jelly after the first 5 minutes when Rondo picked up his second foul.
The Magic did play better. The were allowed to.
The way it works is the refs take you out of your game plan
by calling anything they possibly can. Then they compound it by letting the biggest player in the league assault your team mates. So, bodies are sore and broken and the refs allow it. They don’t even let you in the game and make up total fantasy flagrants on everyone but the one person who should have been thrown out.
That’s how you don’t make your shots and thats how the oppossing team plays with confidence because they know it’s eight on five.
Get real.
by eastie Rich on May 27, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
have to agree but....
yeah the Magic played better yesterday still there calls which are probably very questionable. Celtic bodies are flying around all night.
gie+Rondo4MVP
First the very late start times
Now this. Starting to lose support for the NBA.
the few, the proud, the boston celtics
by bleedgreen34 on May 27, 2010 10:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
+1
…the nba just screwed boston for a few extra dollars instead of letting them be a great underdog team to root for. american sports is dying a painful death. but we’ll always come back to it and i don’t know why
by vgarcia890 on May 27, 2010 11:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Totally off topic
The Suns missed and rebounded two consecutive three point rebounds before hitting the third with 3.5 seconds left! Incredible – go Suns!
Shi*, Artest rebounded a bad Kobe miss and the Lakers win.
by eastie Rich on May 27, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going nuts when Richardson hit that shot.
And then when I saw Artest I was like, “Damn.” lol
when ever people have to question wether the refs have to much ‘influence’ in a game… the answer is yes!
the best games ever played, basketball, baseball, hockey, football, were games that you never remember the refs making a good or bad call. it was th obvious calls and let the players decide the game!
joey crawford has become the ref that is out there when ever there is an issue. or to say it in a better way the nba’s ‘enforcer’ “this team is beating the other team to much go make them seem less dominant” he’s the stu grimson, marty mcsorely, charles oakley, to david stern aka brett hull, wayne gretzky, patrick ewing / jordan… the star player in the series is looking more like a a bench / role player, go let him seem like a stud again! …he holds grudges (tim duncan thrown out from the bench?!). doesnt like players (rasheed wallace).. why the league has him ref a PLAYOFF game is beyond me. he should never be involved with playoff basketball! drag this series out so the nba can make another million!
both of perks tech’s should be called off but the league has to protect the refs a little bit. if both were called off the celtics would have a valid argument that they didnt get a fair shot to win the game! howard has become a pro wrestler, howard vs the bobcats was being called for these fouls. now the refs want to drag it out, so he gets a pass.. inconsistant game calling!
In any industry, if you had an employee that fuc*d up as often
as Crawford does he’d be fired. Actually, he would have been fired about 5 or 10 years ago. So the only question is, why does he still have a job?
Mr. Stern, Mr. Stern?
by eastie Rich on May 28, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
If I look to the NBA for credibility, then ...
… shame on me. Just look at the way they have protected the refs and fined coaches and players for telling the truth, it is obvious the NBA is rotten, from the head down.
NBA Cares about you
news just in NBA.com has set a new record for people logging into it’s site from the Afghanistan/Pakistan region. The word about this great product is reaching new and diverse locals as we speak , they can see how Hard the Refs are busting their butts and look forward to a great Finals series.
NBA action is Fantastic
i’m not sure i understand where you are going with that? first you say the interest in the nba is rising world wide, afghan etc.. but then you say the refs are busting there butts. ? are you saying that in a- refs are killing the world growth of baketball? or they are working to the best of there ability, and by the rules givin to them?































