Celtics Targeting Brad Miller
by Greg Payne on Jun 27, 2010 11:15 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintSome free agency news, courtesy of Adrian Wojnarowski:
The Boston Celtics have targeted center Brad Miller(notes) to sign in free agency, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
Miller and guard Ray Allen(notes) are expected to be the Celtics' two top priorities in summer free agency following the retirement of Rasheed Wallace(notes) and a knee injury to Kendrick Perkins(notes).
The Celtics have their mid-level exception available to sign Miller, 34, who has the versatility to play the power forward and center spots for them. Several contenders are expected to pursue him, but sources say that the chance to play for the defending Eastern Conference champions has significant appeal to Miller.
This might be an indication (along with Ray Allen being the other priority this offseason) that the Celtics are looking to forgo a rebuilding effort and make one final push (or perhaps simply another) for their 18th championship next season.
The Celtics certainly won't be getting any younger if they sign Miller,as he turned 34 last April. He did play in all 82 games for the Chicago Bulls last season, but his production was far below that of previous seasons. His scoring average of 8.8 points per game was his lowest since he averaged 9.0 points per game for the Sacramento Kings back in the 2006-2007 season. His 4.9 rebounds per game average was his lowest since his rookie season back in '98-'99 when he averaged just 3.1 boards per game. His assist average last season (1.9) was also his lowest since the 2001-2002 season (1.8). His field goal percentage last season (43 percent) was also the lowest of his career. However, all of these drops in statistical averages could be related to Miller averaging just 23.8 minutes per game last season, which was his lowest average since the 1999-2000 season.
Miller's also had some history with some of the Celtics who currently grace the roster. He and Rajon Rondo had that little spat back in Game 5 of the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals back in the 2009 playoffs, when Rondo fouled him in the final seconds on a drive to the hoop. He also was nearly ejected in the fourth quarter of Game 4 of that same series when, after taking a hard foul from Glen Davis, he threw that makeshift headbutt at Davis and missed horribly (but Davis sold it nicely).
However, I can't imagine either of these incidents being an issue if Miller does indeed sign with Boston.
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I'd rather Haywood
But I can see the appeal of Miller, he does a lot of the same things that Sheed did. We’d need to trade Sheed’s contract for a Perk stand-in then…
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Jun 27, 2010 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
The Mavs will not let Haywood go, especially that Dampier will be part of some deal for Dallas.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jun 27, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, scratch that. I didn’t realize he’s still on that massive contract where he’ll be paid more than Rondo next season.
So maybe if they move him and he gets waived…
I think Dampier's contract is not guaranteed
and that Dallas could use him as trade bait to a club looking to dump salary by cutting him once th trade is completed, or if Dirk opts out to move on to another team, Dallas could cut him opening up a bunch of cap space for Dallas.
Either way Dampier could well be a free agent. It’s not a guaranteed to happen but definitely a possibility
He’s getting paid 13 million next season. If the Mavericks get Haywood back, there’s no way they’re keeping Dampier even if they fail to trade him — that’s assuming his deal is, indeed, only partially guaranteed.
Dampier's contract is fully unguaranteed
There was a provision of making 3 ASG’s during the length of the contract or playing 2100 minutes in the 2009-10 season to guarantee the last season. He did neither. Shamsports has the details. Put your cursor over his name to get the details:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/mavericks.jsp
He's a Goon, But...
He’ll be OUR goon!!!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
please god no!!!! not ol softy…there r sooo many other centers id rather have!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by beantownballer34 on Jun 27, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions
Soft?
If Miller is soft, who isn’t soft?
I’m surprised anyone is calling Miller soft.
by guava_wrench on Jun 27, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Soft!!
My sense is he likes to mix it up inside and gets chippy about it. Blue collar Celtics style, plus he could get up and down the court, unlike Aristotle.
he's not soft but
he’s not much of a rebounder.
just posted this in the forum ...didn't know you were already on this
are we now targeting nursing homes and rehab facilities for Celtic players?
I want Ray Allen, PP and KG is ours……..but enough!!!! starting putting young pieces on play for rebounding……and fresh legs…..
and I still want to slap that face of his fro what he did to RR…..punk
Is it Soup Yet?
Well
let’s be realistic – the C’s don’t want anyone on more than a two year deal, can’t offer more than vet mins + MLE (whole or split) to FAs… we’re pretty much going to get recycled vets filling in some of the spots. I think Miller doesn’t have to do too much to replace 2nd half Perk’s production (which dropped off a lot IMO.) And he gives you versatility – regardless of whatever other moves the C’s make Miller will be the fourth big in the rotation at worst.
I’m guessing Perk is back practicing by training camp, playing around end of year, and back to form by ASB. So I’m not as worried about the backup C. The C’s still need to find some offense in the post.- Miller won’t get them that, and the days of counting on a combination of Pierce (when opportunity is there), KG (when he feels like it), and Perk (when you have no other choice) are over.
I guess it all depends on what its for – if they could get him for the vet min by heavily recruiting, then its worth it… beyond that…. eh. Maybe the bulls would S&T him with Deng to clear more cap space?
Pretty sure the Bulls have enough cap space for two max guys now that Hinrich is on his way out. They’re realistically not going to sign three max guys, so might as well keep Deng around.
I’m thinking part of the rationale for Brad Miller is that while he might command a full-MLE deal (or close to it), it might only be for two seasons. I thought he’d also been chattering about maybe retiring this season, too. Any of the guys that I would like them to sign are probably going to require a salary commitment beyond 2012.
Not enough for 2
The Bulls don’t have enough for 2 max guys. They’d have to ditch Deng to sign 2 max guys. It’s possible that LeBron and Bosh would both sign with Chicago for about $11M per year instead of $16.5M (the maximum contract), but that seems unlikely. I think Chicago needs to move Deng. The Celtics give them an opportunity to do so with Sheed’s contract as a salary dump, plus filler (Tony Allen S&T? Glen Davis?).
This is untrue
Since moving Hinrich to the Wizards won’t be official until July 8th, technically speaking, you are correct for now. But that trade has been consummated as a gentleman’s agreement, which will become legal on July 8th when the Wizards open up enough cap space to do the deal. When it is done the Bulls will have $32-$33 million in cap space. Enough for $17 million for alpha dog LeBron and $15-$16 million for Bosh.
Yes, you're right
It’s still not quite enough for 2 max guys, but close. I read the salary data too fast.
Danny also really wants Doc back, and you know as far as Doc is concerned
…the older the better.
Whoever said he is a lot like Sheed was is about right though there will be no switch come playoffs and his low post d won’t be nearly as good. He won’t have as good a low post move either but upsides are he is better on face up 12-18 footers, they won’t get blocked, and he won’t foul as much and he will be able to play more minutes. He is a very good passer though the assist totals from last year sure don’t reflect it. I don’t know why folks want to fight this its clear the plan is to extend the window and then melt the whole thing down over one summer or work a free agent miracle, as everyone expires.
Decent rebounder and good passer
A punk on another team (like Sheed), but ok with the Cs? Big body to carry us until Perk or a full time replacement comes aboard. I think he would be ok as the first/second big of the bench by playoffs. I say go for it.
Oh, wow...
I hated him as a Bul lbut he could be a nice addition to our team, especially with Perk’s injury and Sheed’s retirement. But I would not spend the whole MLE or him or even a part of it, he is too old and would be a short term addition.
Definetly shouldn't spend the MLE on this guy
Maybe a portion of it, but we would be better served to sign him with the vet minimum.
say it ain't so
are the pickin’s that slim???…2 O’neal’s,Haywood,Miller, etc etc…we need 2 bodies to get us to the trade deadline…good grief…oh well, if we BEGGED Sheed ,anybody is a step up from that…btw-$13mil,he ain’t gone yet
Ugghh!
Brad Miller? Oh man!
Definetly do not like this guy. He is a goon, and a whinny goon at that. I guess if he’s in green I’ll learn to like him, but it won’t be easy.
How are him and Rajon going to possibly get along?
Come on now
Sam cassel did the same thing when he was with the clippers before joining the celtics. There was incident when he fouled rondo hard. So let it be, if miller plays with the c’s.
by CBleedsGreeN on Jun 27, 2010 11:36 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
If Danny really is interested in Miller
I wonder if he’s talked to Rajon about this. I realize these guys are professionals, but, there would seem to be some fence mending in order if Miller is going to join the C’s.
Why would he care
Why would Rondo care? Heck, Rondo was the guy who smacked Miller in the face.
I think anyone who plays basketball knows that it is easy to leave the game on the court so long as no one starts trouble in the press. Teammates are more likely to be irreconcilable than opposing players.
by guava_wrench on Jun 27, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Sam I am!
When he join the the team. They forgot about it. One thing, was on there mind was a championship! It’s just gonnna be about winning and getting that gold.
by CBleedsGreeN on Jun 27, 2010 11:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
What will he cost?
Can’t say I love Brad Miller. He seems to have lost a few steps and didn’t have too many to begin with. I like him as a fill in for short money but I don’t think he’s worth a large chunk of the MLE. You think we can get him for the vet exception?
No issue for Rajon
This will not be an issue for Rondo. This sort of thing happens all the time and guys get over it. It’s all in the name of competition and Miller will have Rondo’s back if they’re playing together.
He's a savvy player.
Just so he doesn’t keep hitting Rondo’s hand with his face in practice.
by Thruthelookingglass on Jun 27, 2010 11:46 AM EDT reply actions
seemed REALLY slow last time I watched him
I mean, dude’s never been a burner, but he was getting burnt pretty bad. Can he play D at all any more?
Thinking they’re targetting the wrong Miller.
Are you kidding me?
He would be a nice addition if Rasheed retires but there is no way he is the solution to our problems!!!! We lack athleticism, rebounding, and blocking shots!!! come on now if your top priority is to sign this guy and let Rasheed retire without getting anything in return then you’re really giving up… I say trade for Chris Andersen or Marcus Camby!
Yeah, we’re not getting Birdman. I’d love to see him on the Celtics, but it’s just not going to happen.
by PeaceSignMoose on Jun 27, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
You seriously think you’re going to get Andersen or Camby in a salary-dump deal from contending teams. Really?!
you have to try to get better at the categories you are worst at no matter what!! it doesn’t have to be Rasheed and it doesn’t have to be these two guys! but out rebounding sucks!! Rondo is great but if our PG is our best rebounder then we have a big problem and Brad Miller is not solving anything we need to improve at!
by Celticsdude on Jun 27, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Are you serious? We are targeting another 34 year old center? Maybe next year we can sign Bill Russell to a contract, he is still under 80. Does anyone think we ought to be going younger and more athletic?
On a side note, can we realistically expect Perkins back at all next year? Shouldn’t we target a starting center that can play 30 – 35 minutes a night? If he a torn ACL with damage to his PCL and MCL, it is a two year injury… He’d be back next season but not to full strength. Brad Miller doesn’t sound like much of a back up plan.
Who would you target?
That’s actually realistic?
by TheOutletPass on Jun 27, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Realistically...
I think Beasley is a good option. He is young and versatile and needs to be coached. I think a team of veterans with a “team first” mentality might be good for him, and he is available. I can’t think of a lot of other big men out there that can make as much of an impact as he “potentially” can that are available. We are looking at mostly trash (Shaq, Miller, Big Z, etc…). Or guys who would want too much $$$. I realize it is far from a lock, but it is something that could help…
Realistically...
Realistically, Beasley is not a center, so that’s just about irrelevant. Also, our ability to get Beasley is not affected by signing Miller from free agency.
Realistically,
there isn’t much different in front court players. We could run a two forward set with Garnett/Davis/Beasley/Perk/Williams and it would be just fine. There aren’t many “centers” in the league, and you don’t really need one if you have two competent front court players that can rebound and pass effectively from the low post.
One more thought...
What about trading Wallace to Miami for Beasley, then Wallace retires, they don’t owe him anything and we can get Beasley in our front court? He is a young talent that with the right coaching can be a huge asset. He is also younger and faster then Miller and Shaq and is tough around the box. He might not be perfect, but by all accounts he is available and has a much better upside than two centers in their mid 30’s.
Yeah, this is fine
But it has nothing to do with finding a legit 5 to go against Howard or Bynum or other centers.
That’s the question here.
by TheOutletPass on Jun 27, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Does allowing Miami to dump Beasley’s contract give them the cap space to go after another max free agent?
If so, I’d think twice about sending Wallace’s retiring contract over to the Heat….
by Stanford_Fan on Jun 28, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
if you are trying to win the finals (seriously) next year by resigning Ray (which we should)
then Brad Miller won’t help us in the long drive to the finals….if you are trying to win it all but with an eye on rebuilding with a bit of youth (i.e. take some chances) then Brad Miller ain’t the answer
either way…..Brad Miller ain’t the answer…..(not even the question)
Is it Soup Yet?
Brad Miller's the kind of guy we're going to get at the 5 spot
I don’t really know what else people were expecting…?
by TheOutletPass on Jun 27, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
let me take the easy way out
I don’t know but it ain’t Brad Miller …..or Shaq……they both seem …….desperate somehow…..
Is it Soup Yet?
Isn’t that just lovely. There is no other answer, but Brad Miller is not the answer. Let use one of my favorite quotes here: “Engineering is not about optimal solutions. It’s about making the best with what you have.”
So yeah, maybe the optimal solution is having someone who is not Brad Miller. But what’s the best solution for the team?
Agreed
I’m not the most enamored with Brad Miller myself, but if there isn’t a better center out there, then for the right price, why not take a flyer on him? I mean, we were willing to take Jamison as long as we got Caron Butler in that would-be infamous trade, and I’d take Brad Miller’s defense (or anyone’s) over Jamison’s….
I'd like to see some game film of Brad Miller playing the Lakers. Ainge probably has.
Essentially, what we need is a big guy that can lean on Bynum without fouling constantly, and guard Gasol when he does his little pivot moves. For what’s available out there, I guess that can be Miller.
Shaq is better than Miller
Would be far more effective/productive than Sheed as well…
by nba is the worst on Jun 27, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with NBA is the worst
Miller is a better free throw shooter than Shaq (so are most peeps)
Miller has a good 15 foot jump shot and a marginal three point shot (Shaq has an effective range of 24 inches)
Miller is slow (so is Shaq)
Shaq is still a put-back monster in the paint (Miller knows where the paint is)
Shaq still eats lots of room and rebounds (Miller takes some room and knows what a rebound is)
Shaq is the ultimate enforcer. Box, Shove, Judo, Kill, FRIGHTEN. (Rajon takes out Miller)
I prefer Shaq, BUT he is more injury prone and will prolly want more money (tho I doubt he needs any).
he will slow down our offense
but he may be a beast on the other side with our help defense….it would be interesting to see but it scares me…and of course when perkins comes back we will have 5 rotational guys who shoot under 70% from the FT line……GULP
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
"…traded as many times this summer as a bad hooker’s phone number at a Vegas convention of Proctologists ."
by remembering9ergods on Jun 27, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Cant Run the diesel
Can barely walk. Terrible combo with Rondo—would work about as well here as he did with Nash in Phoenix. No, Danny, No
Academics
Both Shaq and D Howard were highly acclaimed graduates of the "
“Wilt Chamberlain Academy of Advanced Foul Shooting”
Wilt was a 80 percent free throw shooter in high school before his knee surgery
the few, the proud, the boston celtics
by bleedgreen34 on Jun 27, 2010 7:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Given that we need a center and who is available in free agency
I would have no problem with the C’s signing Brad Miller but hope like hell where he is interested in Boston that we can get him for like half the MLE or so. Say 3 years $9 million with a team option on the last year.
Really who else do you really want to give money to to play starting center on this team until Perk gets back. These are the unrestricted free agent centers available:
Jason Collins
Brendan Haywood
Theo Ratliff
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Shaquille O’Neal
Johan Petro
Kwame Brown
Ben Wallace
Drew Godden
Brian Skinner
D J Mbenga
Steven Hunter
Jamal Magliore
Jermaine O’Neal
Primoz Brezec
Kurt Thomas
Darko Milicic
Tony Battie
Sean Marks
Earl Baron
David Lee
Etan Thomas
Francisco Elson
Jaron Collins
Channing Frye
Juwan Howard
Ian Mahinmi
Rasho Nesterovic
Patrick O’Bryant
Fabricio Oberto
Unless you love really old centers or really untalented centers the list of players that are available to the Celtics that aren’t ancient or just not worthy of looking at is extremely slim.
Jermaine O’Neal,David Lee, Brad Miller, Channing Frye and Brendan Haywood are about the only players that are not too old or too inept to be considered. Lee is too expensive, Frye too soft, Haywood disappears for long stretches in most games, O’Neal is injury prone and has a questionable heart(theoretical not physical) and Miller who’s game is slipping fairly quickly.
Brad Miller at least is going to be tough and give you the effort every minute he’s on the court.
The Celtics options are bleak...
What a depressing list!
it's just a matter of spending the MLE...
I’d rather bring aboard Ben Wallace at the minimum (assuming that he’d take that, for the chance at one last ring) than spend the MLE on Brad Miller. Wallace still gives you D and rebounding. Rather leave the MLE free to spend on a legit, youngish wing (again, Mike Miller, Travis Outlaw, JJ Reddick).
No issues with bring Brad Miller aboard, per se – it’s just the assumption that they’ll give him a big chunk of the MLE and therefore we won’t be able to improve the team elsewhere.
Having Wallace is like playing 4 on 5 on offense. Perkins looks like Shaq on the offensive end, compared to him.
A “wing” is someone who can guard both bigger guards and smaller forwards. There is no way Reddick is guarding the likes of Pierce, LeBron, Caron Butler, Ron Artest, etc.
Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to have Reddick. But he just doesn’t solve our problem with guarding bigger, longer wing players — and in this sense he can’t even be mentioned in one sentence with Outlaw or Miller.
Reddick's my third choice of those three, too
… and I do hate arguing semantics. Not sure I agree with how you define “wing,” but that’s irrelevant.
I’d love Mike Miller or Outlaw, but Reddick would be my third choice, mostly to play behind Ray Allen. But, I’m not convinced you COULDN’T go small-ball with he and Rondo and Ray Allen for short periods, against backup guys. He’d be coming off the bench, he wouldn’t necessarily be going up against the guys you mention.
There’s a chance that Quis comes back, too, since he’s unlikely to get any offers above the vet min and we could give him a little raise. You could play those two guys together against other teams’ second units.
If the best offer Marquis Daniels could get is the vet min
Why on earth would Danny Ainge offer him a raise over the near $2 million he received last year? Seems a complete waste of money.
Reddick would be great to either start and have Ray as the 6th man or vice versa. If Ray comes off the bench, then he will not have to guard the other team’ starting SG. It also means the other team’s second string SG will have to guard him. And we also save his legs for the playoffs. JJ as a starter is not at all bad since he is a deadly shooter and improving defensively. With his acquisition, you have a dead-eye shooter in the game at all times. The question is can we afford to sign him? The answer is yes if Pierce restructures his contract and Allen signs for less. I hope this happens. Reddick is one of the only guyys other than Kobe, Gasol and LeBron who caused me to gasp every time they shot against us in the playoffs.
As for Miller, we do not have many other options. Ideally, Haywood but we cannot afford him. And Perk is likely to rehab slower than we think so we have a real issue here. Miller and Art P. from Radford could be the answer. I watched Art play since I live in Lexington, Va. which is the home of VMI. VMI played Radford in conference play. Art has skills and with good coaching can be a decent defensively. He can play offense folks. He has to be an upgrade over Shelden.
Exactly
It is a moot point but more because we have to use th MLE to sure up the front court which presently has a center with a knee that won’t be able to play until 2011 at the earliest, an undersized PF and an aging PF who’s game has become more and more perimeter based and who is no longer a good rebounder.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Names I like from that list:
Johan Petro – still young
Ben Wallace – old, but give you what you need (rebounding/defense)
Drew Gooden
Kurt Thomas – getting old but can still shoot and play d
Francisco Elson
Juwan Howard – very old but another KG buddy, won’t screw up
Fabricio Oberto
You forgot one we prolly will get (provided he's not offered too much cash overseas)
We already own the rights to Semih Erden. Young, big and physical. Probably as good or better then Miller at rebounding and defense. But not a scorer.
Big Z
I thought the Cavs played better with him than Shaq.
I'd wager...
…. that if ‘Bron goes to Chicago, Big Z will either follow him at the min or retire. He was talking about this year being his last, anyway. Can’t see him playing for too many teams other than Cleveland, not at this stage of his career, but I’m pretty sure he and ‘Bron are close. He’d give Chicago cheap depth at the C spot, and could finally get himself a ring.
Mahinmi?
He seemed to play well at times, but basically got no tick in SA.
Should be cheap…
by nba is the worst on Jun 27, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you
I hope we go after him for the min. Bring him to training camp and see how/if he fits.
the few, the proud, the boston celtics
by bleedgreen34 on Jun 27, 2010 7:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lee would be awesome!
Maybe they can find a way to get under the cap to sign him? Definitely a long shot though… Rasho isn’t awful, or at least wasn’t 3 years ago when i remembering him playing a lot. Darko or Brown would be some busts that might look to make the most of an opportunity to contribute on a championship team. I’m pretty sure Big Z was killed by a dinosaur a long time ago and isn’t available anymore…. But him or Shaq would at least be a solid 10 minutes off the bench. Probably looking for too much dough though…
The real question is, when can the team expect Perkins back. If it isn’t until February, we might want to consider 2 players off that list for the MLE
Role Player
This is about nothing but a role player. He gives us 20-25 mpg on the second unit next to Baby. Wouldnt be necessary except Sheed is retiring. Using the whole midlevel on him concerns me but…… who can we get cheaper that is better and most importantly that is even available? We are desparate for a quality big, the list is short and expensive.
"First fix their hearts"-Eizo Shimabuku
From the Woj article
“Rivers has been behaving like a coach who plans to return. He participated in the Celtics’ draft preparation, and he had been working with GM Danny Ainge to prepare for the start of free agency on Thursday. He has also had conversations with prospective candidates to replace Tom Thibodeau on his coaching staff, but that hire is on hold.”
I suppose that's true, but...
If it’s clear the Celtics aren’t going into full rebuild mode just yet, then Doc may give it another go, even if it is just one more year. Right now, I bet Vegas would give favoring odds to Doc staying.
Hey, let us have some hope!
I really hope they bring aboard Lawrence Frank as Doc’s Assistant Head Coach and give Doc a little more room to see his kids and do his family stuff. Frank’s got the experience and he’s pretty well-regarded; he can run a few practices while Doc’s out of town, and I don’t think the team would lose a step. Ownership and Danny seem to be willing to bend over backwards to keep Doc as Head Coach. Think they can get away with that because of how veteran a squad this is and how much the team leaders respect Doc, you couldn’t have that kind of situation with a younger, less-established squad.
You may be right, theBird.
Doc is sort of intimating that some kind of compromise like this may be possible…trying for the best of both worlds???
I’d like to see Lee. He’s young, hard nosed, and a good scorer. Isn’t Beasley a member of the all NBA headcase team?
Thats fine, take Miller...
But please go sign Amundson! This guy will rebound and block shots and finish around the rim.
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Website Creation, Business Cards, etc.
by schmalzilla on Jun 27, 2010 12:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yes Master Po, Lee is too expensive
but i cant imagine better option to rondo… nice dream.
Miller will get the full MLE
The other guys I like on the list, who could conceivably sign on for a year for the exposure, would be Amundsen and Mahinmi. Mahinmi is a genuine prospect.
Rasho is my perennial vet-min suggestion.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
It's a huge IF
but he might be the guy with the most upside of this group.
Assuming he opts out of his big contract (one year left), he’s probably looking for something in the 4-5 year range at, what, $8M per?
by TheOutletPass on Jun 27, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm wondering if Chandler might be too light to go up against the Lakers.
Bynum would probably have more than fifty pounds on Chandler.
By the time we're worrying about the Lakers....
Perk will be back. Of course, you can say the same thing about Dwight Howard.
If Chandler is healthy, he’d be a helluva lot of fun watching run the break with Rondo. But yeah, he’s always been and always will be on the lithe side, which makes him matching up against more-traditional centers a bit of a challenge.
Like the Amir Johnson recommendation, not sure how much of a downgrade he would be versus Brad Miller and he’s young enough where he wouldn’t necessarily be a two-year rental. Danny wanted to draft him, wouldn’t mind if he pursued him this offseason.
One under-the-radar guy I would feel good about being our third center is old friend Batman. He was reasonably effective as Dwight Howard’s backup two years ago, and then languished on New Jersey’s bench last season. Not sure if his game declined much last year; I suspect there was just no reason for him to get minutes on that squad. Obviously at nothing more than the vet min, but he’s a smart player that I think would fit right in to a backup role.
if Perk has an acl why is everyone saying things like he'll be back by the as break?
That is far from certain. Give it ten months from mid June on a guy that big and your looking at the end of the season. Mid february is WAY too sunny of a view though he could be running at 50% by then
Perk running at 50% = Acie Earl
God help us
by Finkelskyhook on Jun 27, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Perk won't be himself for at least a year and a half
unfortunately he is in a contract year and will push himself to return too fast.
IT'S NOTAN ACL!!!
he tore the other 2 ligs, not the ACL. he still needs surgery, but the recovery is much easier and quicker than an ACL tear. look it up.
If we're gonna get precise, then it's what's called a "triangle" tear
where all three ligaments are partially torn, including the ACL. I think AS break is about right but will take him until the playoffs until he is back in shape, etc.
AMIR JOHNSON OR LOUIS ADMUNDSON!!!!
We need athleticism!!!!!
"Why can't we be like LA?"
Being the #1 Celtic fan, why can’t we fight “fire with fire” with our nemesis?
I mean, if they are so shrewd, smart, creative, & bold (albeit greedy & cheatful) in acquiring GREAT players, why can’t we do the same?
I can’t believe there’s no sense of urgency with our C’s especially now that LA is only 1 banner behind us & are poised for a dynasty while our window is closing-in fast.
Adding Brad Miller, another old guy who’s near retirement, won’t help us at all especially with our aging core!
What we need to do is to use our best asset to our advantage & that is – go after the top free agents who wants to win now!
Of course, everybody knows that our C’s ( inspite of the aged core) is still the best team to go to in order to win a ring because no other team is good enough to beat LA not even Cleveland or Orlando.
The Cavs may have swept LA this past season but the playoffs is a totally different beast, only Boston has a chance against LA!
And so we have to use that attractiveness to our advantage because there are some top free agents who are willing to take lesser money for a chance to finally win.
What the C’s should do is talk to the Cap [Pierce] & ask him if he is amenable to contract re-structuring whereby he’ll get paid $6 mil./yr. till he’s 38 or 39.
Of course, he will no longer be good by 37 or 38 but the last 2 years of the contract is where he gets compensated for the sacrifice he’ll make now to better the team.
Paul is such a team player who always desire & aspire to win (the very essence of what a Celtic is all about!) that he will surely be amenable to this.
If Paul agrees to $6 mil./yr., he then coughs-up $15 mil. (But the last 2 years of his new contract will compensate for the money lost now.) Add Sheed’s $6 mil. since he’s retiring, then the C’s have $21 mil. available!
We can then go after the best free agent available who will turn down $25 – $30 mil. from other teams for a chance to finally win that elusive ring which LA now monopolizes.
It’s like, if LA always lands the best player available, then we need to stop being complacent & fight “fire with fire!”
If LA’s ingenuity over the last 3 decade is what allowed them to nearly tie us & threatens to leave us behind, then it’s about time we become smart & shrewd too!
But we don’t stop here, we then go after Melo when he becomes a free agent next year.
Melo is not biting the huge contract extension offer by the Nuggets because he also wants to win.!
The $21 mil./yr. offer from the Nuggets doesn’t faze him because he knows that his team will not get better with an aging Billups & K-Mart.
If the 2011-2012 season gets cancelled due to the impending collective bargaining fiasco, then we really can go after Melo on 2012-2013 since KG’s huge contract is finished by then. (We can sign Kg to MLE by then because he will still be servicable by then – & we do need him!)
If the 2011-2012 season is salvaged like the 1999 season, then the free agents will sign for just that salvaged year then still become a free agent at season’s end thereby giving us a great opportunity to go after Melo who also badly wants to win.
Now that’s how Celtic-Land, Celtic Nation should think. THINK BIG & BOLD just as to how the Lakers does. That’s how LA has been successful over the years while we had that +20 year drought since we became complacent & un-imaginative.
But the only way Melo will come to us is if we continue to be a championship caliber team. Hence, we really need to go after a top free agent this coming July. Does LeBron ring a bell.
For sure, LA will also make a run for Melo since they NEVER stops & NEVER rest in their quest for the best players. However, they will be in a bind for he next 2-3 years due to the big, guaranteed contract Gasol, Kobe, Bynum, Odom, Artest, & Walton’s +$6 mil.
This year then is our chance to be like our nemesis & go after the best players available.
But everything starts with our Cap, we have to ask him to sacrifice for now for the betterment of the team.
by Prester John II on Jun 27, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
Sorry
But most of what you posted her is impossible.
1.) Pierce is NEVER going to opt out of a $21.5 million contract year so that it takes him 3 1/2 years to make up the difference.
2.) He can’t sign a 7 year deal and his next deal, if over 3 years, kicks in the Over 36 provision which takes the money on the end of his contract and distributes it into the years before he’s 36 on the salary cap.
3,) Pierce’s reduced salary and Rasheed’s reduced salary doesn’t equat to cap space to sign free agents. It amounts less money spent but not more money to spend. Larry Coon has an excellent site discussing the rules of the collective bargaining agreement.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
4.) It’s pretty much a complete urban legend that players take significantly less money to go to championship winning situations. Players care about money and security and the same things we care about. They aren’t going to take ten of millions less on a multi-year deal to come to Boston to win
5.) The reason that LA gets so many quality free agents is because of the city and the weather. Boston’s ability to get the biggest of big free agents is because they have never had cap space to give a max contract to an unrestricted free agent and because the weather in Boston and the night life is awful.
Basically agree.
Restructuring PP’s contract is simply not going to net us any useful space.
He can’t spread the hit out more than 3 years. And even spreading it out 3 years presents risks for Pierce because there is a real risk of a lockout in 2011-12. To make sure he gets his money, he’s not going to be taking this year’s hit down below 15M (i.e. doing a 3×15 contract so that if he plays 2 years of it he still gets 30) or something similar. Before someone suggest he’d take 3×10 – that presents the risk to him of playing two years to get the same (less, actually) than he’s currently guaranteed to make playing just one year ($21M) if he exercises his option. So 3×15 is almost certainly as low as his agent (and probably the player’s union) would be willing to take his cap hit down to.
That kind of restructuring only nets us about 6M against the cap. And even if Sheed retires at $0 buyout, we still have to factor in cap holds for the remaining roster spots that have to be filled so in all likelihood that probably STILL doesn’t get us under the cap and certainly not enough to sign a plus free agent.
For these reasons PP is likely to exercise his option and THEN we can hope to sign him to a sunset contract at a lower per-year hit.
Folks need to resign themselves that we have basically three tools left to work with: The MLE. The Bird rights on our own FAs. And the ability to sign & trade our FAs.
i’d rather have either of the 2 O’Neils than Miller. Then trade Sheed for Beidrins.
"No I’m not KG. Not at all, but I’m Big Baby Glen Davis from LSU, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I’m not the Big Ticket. I’m the Ticket Stub. Don’t count the Ticket Stub out. You might need the ticket to get in the game, but you leave with the ticket stub, because you’ll never forget this game."
by bopna on Jun 27, 2010 1:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think
they are better getting two guys at the vet min, Miller for even half MLE is probably a bad use of the MLE funds. On the other hand there may be no option and this has best marginal impact.
Game & Face
Miller’s game matches his face,UGLY
Why not?
Miller is a big body that adds length to the lineup. I am happy with the Celtics going after any big man that is ACTUALLY a BIG man.
DA loves these shooting big guys and Doc knows how to use them. I think adding Miller would be a huge plus. But then again, I wouldn’t mind any other decent big man that adds length to our squad.
If he comes at the right price, I’m all for it. Miller is tough and skilled. He also one of the best passing centers in the game. Unfortunately, he was horribly out of shape last season (and I mean he looked worse midseason than Sheed did on opening day), so he’s going to question in what shape he’s going to show up.
Frankly, I think that the Celtics should be looking to land Mike Miller with the MLE, and a couple of serviceable big men at vet minimum. You’re ain’t going to get world beaters for this price, but a stop-gap player or two will be available, and Perk will eventually be back.
exactly where I'm at...
I see the drop-off between Brad Miller and the big men who’ll be available at the vet minimum as being pretty small.
I see the drop-off between Mike Miller, Travis Outlaw, and to a lesser extend JJ Reddick and the SF/SGs available at the vet min as being much bigger.
Perk will be back. If we don’t get Pierce and Ray Allen some help, so they can play <30MPG (and a lot less on some back-to-backs), anything we do is going to be moot because we’ll burn out early in the playoffs.
hmmmm
good replac for sheed,but we still need another big like haywood,milicic or at least shaq to rebound and block to replace perkinss,hmm i wonder if harangody makes the team he’ll do that?
Tush size counts!
A big arse can be more important in rebounding then length. That’s what allows BBD to rebound. I think Hargodly has a big arse. (If you want the ultimate in Big Arses combined with Length, get Shaq).
amazing to hear myself say this, but...
If we ARE going to spend the MLE on a big man, I’d rather it went to Darko. He’s a punchline, but also a very good rebounder and defender, and still young/healthy. Don’t think he’d come here, though – I have to imagine that after beginning to establish himself in with the Wolves, he’ll be looking either to resign or to go to a situation where he could be the long-term starter.
ill agree with you
marko while thin is a good rebounder and defender. his jump shot came along last year some too and he’s only 24. i dont think it would even cost us the full MLE for him. the problem is he has grown tired of the buisness side of teh NBA and is considering going back to europe
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
"…traded as many times this summer as a bad hooker’s phone number at a Vegas convention of Proctologists ."
by remembering9ergods on Jun 27, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
miller is an ok player
but his defense and rebounding has really gone down hill. i dont know if id be ok with giving him the full MLE. i really want the other miller, mike. to bad we got nothing to trade for a younger center
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
"…traded as many times this summer as a bad hooker’s phone number at a Vegas convention of Proctologists ."
by remembering9ergods on Jun 27, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions
No to brad!
I would rather sign Fabricio oberto, he can be had for the vets min.
he can rebound like crazy and plays good (spurs) defense.
Brad will prob want a 2 year deal!
guys im sorry but i do not think our ball club can beat the lakers next year, If OKC somehow made it to the finals they would kill us too. Just imagine all the same guys but a worse version of this years KG,RR,PP there is no way.
My guess of the reason danny will not break up this core is because , the plan before the trade was to compete for 5 years and my guess is that danny will not break up this core until the 2012\2013 season. ownership can make their 5 year profits before this team goes into the pit for another 10 years. Danny had some high draft picks during the years he should have had a star wing player by now.
I’d like to see them try Darko. He’s young and has size and some skills. The Celts have too many older players that are breaking down.
Me, too....
… but Darko may be looking for more years and an opportunity where he could earn the longterm starting gig.
I don’t mind Brad Miller at the right price, but he’s at about #20 or #25 on the list of guys I’d like to see the C’s pursue this offseason. Last year, Rasheed Wallace made all kinds of sense as the priority; Brad Miller this offseason, a little less so.
Mahimi, Frye, O'neal
We could maybe get Frye and Mahimi by splitting the MLE.
Probably not.
Honestly, I like Frye with this team ALOT. Can run with Rondo, stretch the floor. And you can say he is soft all you want, but he did average nearly 6 rebounds in less than 30 minutes per game last year. He did play for the Suns, but they became an increasingly defensive team last year.
Ian Mahiimi. Hes big, athletic and French! Next batum anyone??
Well i only meant that he was french and somewhat overlooked.
It doesnt matter when he was drafted. He is 23 and what we need. And of course he hasnt shown zip, he hasnt gotten alot of PT he played behind duncan and was injured. But not putting up big numbers doesnt mean hes not worth a shot. Like I said he is only 23, and a gifted athlete
We did
two years ago…and as a smooth talking sports writer might smirk …………… ’ we got a young Turk’.
(Named Semih Erden)
Even having drafted a big man, he is not the answer.
The team needs one or probably two frontcourt players with NBA experience, maybe even playoffs/championship experience.
Im sick of old, tough guys.
Cant we please go young, athletic and build around Rondo?
Patience.
It will happen. But not yet. We need to play this out.
Folks need to not be so worried. One more year to try with this core. Then, we will have tremendous leverage after that to either trade expirings for new players or play them out and use the enormous cap space ourselves to sign free agents then.
We should still be competitive this next year, if we don’t panic and watch the ol’ health plan. We just need a serviceable C or two to keep us in playoff contention until Perk gets healthy – then make another playoff run.
We may end up tanking 2011-12 (which may be a lockout year anyway). But that might get us a nice draft pick. Or, mid-season trades of our gigantic expirings might net us some decent talent so maybe we don’t tank it that year. At any rate, in the end, we’ll be rebuilding at that point – around a then-veteran base of Rondo, Perk, Bradley and probably BBD & TA. Add 2-3 studs to that and we should be good to go again.
Let's get Beasley
He could be a guy to run with Rondo for many years to come. Just because he is forced to defer to D Wade so much makes him look like a non-superstar right now. On this C’s team, he’d be a third option, but he would definitely get his attempts due to our unselfish play.
He doesn't look like a superstar because he isn't one.
He looked like he was going through the motions in the playoffs.
by Finkelskyhook on Jun 27, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like I'm on an episode of Punk'd
Seriously, if we spend the MLE on Brad Miller, I’d be incredibly disappointed.
I’d rather target Jermaine O’neal… even Shaq… Miller is just old and slow to me.
Ugh… just… UGH!
Forget the doubters, Michael Beasley would look awfully good in green.
I prefer to have!!
The guy that is playing in Europe( I dont even remember his name),Parakhouski, Williams and Big Baby fillingthe spot
so if rasheed retires...
how much money will we get back from his contract? will that be the money that we will spend on brad ? and we will still have our MLE to spend…i’m all for it!
If Rasheed retires and we buy him out, we're still over the cap
aka no money to spend on FA’s.
Forget the doubters, Michael Beasley would look awfully good in green.
are you sure RJ87? i thought i read if we buy him out…we could spend 3mil of that money? because that was last years MLE..something like that…but i’m not sure….
by rayallen_35_24 on Jun 27, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Even if Sheed retires for $0 buyout, the Celtics are still over the cap, and remain so unless they renounce Pierce (assuming he opts out — if he doesn’t opt out there’s no way to get below the cap), Ray Allen, and the other free agents, and renounce the midlevel exception (actually, if things happen in that order, they would be under the cap and would not even get a midlevel exception).
If Sheed accepts a buyout for $X, then $X/2 counts against the cap for each of the next 2 years.
Honestly, I would rather Semih Erden than Brad Miller
Please — start the rebuilding now with young(er) legs. Enough with this nursing home of the NBA stuff.
we may need both to tell you the truth….
by rayallen_35_24 on Jun 27, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
tell you the truth...
i like brad miller….tuff bastard….lol
Lets target...
Omeka Okafor. He is Perkins 3x better. Can rebound, block shots and score. I rather DA try hard to work a trade via sign and trade maybe including Nate or whatever works.
NO is looking to dump salaries and he is still young and a stud center that can bang and importantly rebound. I don’t mind Brad Miller if he was replacing Sheed but not to replace Perkings. His game is out in the perimeter and not in the paint.
We will never get any rebounds if we don’t have some studs rebounding.
I would not call Okafor a stud
And I hate that contract.
by TheOutletPass on Jun 27, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure Danny will get Miller....
….cause he loves shooters. Whole new pick and pop plays with Brad. I’d still rather focus the money on Mike Miller, Outlaw, etc. and some more on Admunson type. Others I like are Haslem, Foster, Brian Zoubeck.
oh yeah .
big brad would be a welcome addition to the bench smart move by danny boy if he can snag miller it proves we are not rebuilding just reloading .
lohaus #54
Centers
We need to look at bringing 2 or new 3 centers with what has happened. Aaron Gray if available and 2 more inexpenive players until Perk gets back and to fill Rasheed’s role.
if doc stays...
i wouldnt be surprised if he gets danny to re-sign scal and doc will start him…doc loves him some red head
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
"…traded as many times this summer as a bad hooker’s phone number at a Vegas convention of Proctologists ."
by remembering9ergods on Jun 27, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
If he signs with the Celtics
He’s the perfect player to replace Rasheed as the guy who whines after each foul call.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
We need some youth
A big man who can jump, rebound and play D is what we need. With the big 3 getting one year older and Perk out because of injury, I am afraid the next regular season will not be pretty and may be worse than the one we just had, unless DA hits a jackpot in the offseason.
Shaq instead of Brad
I like Shaq before Brad if were going that rout. Shaq had 12 and 6 and is much more of a force in the paint, and Brad had 6 and 4 in the same # minutes and doesn’t intimidate
except Shaq doesn't play defense
Miller still plays some defense. ’Used to play pretty good defense.
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