Rumor: Chris Paul Wants Out Of New Orleans
by Jeff Clark on Jul 21, 2010 8:54 PM EDT
in Boston Celtics Rumors
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PrintInteresting (but not altogether surprising) rumor:
New Hornets brass already facing crisis with Paul - NBA - CBSSports.com Basketball
"He wants out," said the person, who has been briefed on Paul's strategy but spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss it publicly. "He wants to play with another superstar. He wants to follow LeBron's model of teaming up with other great players." Paul's list of preferred destinations consists of the Knicks, Magic and Lakers, and members of his inner circle already have sent word to the Hornets of his desire to be traded to one of those teams, sources say. If Paul has his way, he's played his last game in a Hornets jersey.
I could see the Knicks being a good fit for him and there were rumors already that he wanted to team up with Amare and Carmelo in NYC.
Would the Celtics be a potential fit? We've got superstars to put around him (at least for another 2 years or so) but it would likely cost us Rondo (who would be redundant anyway).
Matt Moore takes a look at some of the potential places he could land (no Boston isn't on that list either). Hat tip CelticsHub
Update: You just knew that Bill Simmons would fire up the trade ideas.
CP3 waited too long: had he gone public last month, NYK-NJ-Dal had the cap room/assets to deal. The most realistic matches now: Hou or Bos.
Boston has the hammer offer if they want to make it: Rondo, Perkins, Sheed's ghost, No. 1 + 3m for CP3 + Okafor. NO has to say yes to that.
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out of those three he better go to the knicks.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"
by remembering9ergods on Jul 21, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions
Holy poo
I do not blame him for wanting out of that franchise which is going nowhere but would it not be more of a challenge to join a team on the cusp of greatness than already there, the magic? Please Not the Lakers. And you know they would go after him too and have the pieces to get him and the cash to pay the tax too. Would be strangely fine with the knicks though, thy kind of deserve a decent team after this long. How bout Atlanta, Portland, okc or Dallas? These teams are all in the discussion too and could become legit contenders to the west crown.
Just not the lakers, I already don’t like him I don’t want to loath him.
He would be a great fit on the Orlando Magic
Him and DH12 would make one helluva dynamic duo
Not to the C's....
I like Rondo and I think he is just as good as Paul. His stats overall are almost just as good. Plus…Rondo is a better fit for the players we have.
Secondly…Yeah. I agree. Anywhere but LA.
The Once and Future King
reality check
paul would be great on celtics with rondo—-but how could Celtics get him —-nothing is in the till
Bad Blood between Rondo and CP3
I get the feeling that Rondo and Chris Paul aren’t on very good terms. I remember a game last year in which Rondo started mouthing Paul after the final whistle blew. The two were face to face until Pierce broke it up. (Look for it on YouTube)
But that’s besides the point that there’s no way Ainge is going to give away Rondo after working so hard to keep him (the Timberwolves and the Sonics wanted Rondo in the KG and Ray Allen trades, respectively) and extending his deal to until 2014 for much less than he would get if he were a free agent this year.
I’d take Rondo over CP3 any day of the week.
Well...
doesn’t he have to go to the Miami Yankees?
I don't think the magic has anything to offer
I suppose the hornets would want sth in return. I hope the knicks could land him and our division would be fun.
by friedgreentomatoes on Jul 21, 2010 9:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
That would work out well for the magic
And at least they would get a decent return
though I am thinking they would want Jameer.
cp3 is under contract for 2 more years
hornets are very reluctant to trade him and if they have to they would want to get back more than just cash relief. they would want young talent and picks. Its so differnt from le queen’s situation—the hornets are the boss if cp3 really wants out. Knicks has young talents like randolph and presumablly better picks and could also offer financial relief in curry. Even better, the knicks are under cap so they dont have to send back all of paul’s contract value. That would help the hornets’ financial situation right now rather than having them to pay luxury tax until next year when they could dump carter. umm, if the magic are willing to take back other bad contract from the NO, it might be possible. but to me that will bring the magic into a very risky financial situation. Maybe I shouldnt have said the Magic has “nothing” to offer, but from the hornets side, they’d rather trade with the knicks.
by friedgreentomatoes on Jul 22, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Carter and Nelson
The Hornets would get cap relief and a good young point guard. The Magic could also sweeten the deal by taking another dead weight contract off the Hornets and giving them another young player… That would make the Magic absolutely sick.
The Knicks hopefully
and I’ll definitely keep Rondo!
we would fit
using Sheed’s contract to shoehorn him in on a team like the mavs where they don’t have cap room (getting value back to us)
i think what calc is saying is we could get involved in a three team trade to get back some pieces that ARENT chris paul……and also probably prevent him from going to the lakers…….i could see us getting involved with new york and new orleans ………using sheeds contract…and getting posey back…..or some other pieces that we need……..
do it
Rondo,Sheed for salary relief and a couple #1’s….done deal
The Salaries Must Match
Sorry, the salaries must match. Anyway, I do not think that Rondo and Paul could play on the same team. In addition, Rondo is a better fit for the team.
I love the Bill Simmons idea
Rondo/Perk/Sheed’s ghost and some cash and a number 1 for CP3 and Okafor. Okafor could play some center for us as well as spelling Garnett when he’s on the bench. It’d actually probably be some pretty good competition between Okafor and O’Neal to see who would start at Center.
Melo to sign extention
I see folks point of why would we want him in our division our conference will be fought enough, to that I say I am a fan of the game and it would be quite exciting.
I would like to see him in Portland, Houston or Dallas though
that would be pretty neat
healthy Blazers are capable of giving tough competetion to the Lakers
Rockets probably would want Paul
same with Dallas-maybe we end up with Howard or Battier
But battier would be nice
They have pieces that could do it too, a 3 team trade would be nice
What's Paul's injjury status
Thought Chris Paul had a pretty nasty knee injury. If so, we don’t even know how well he’ll play next year. He needs to show he can play first before making these demands. Look at Gilbert Arenas…once he started having those knee ioperations his game went downhill. I’m still amazed the Wizards gave him such a large contract even though he had serious knee problems.
This is what the NBA has come to
We soon will have three or four teams with the 12 best players in the league and the remaining 26-27 teams can fight for the scraps every year.
Too many expansion teams
Watering down the product not enough stars to go around, wish they would cut back a couple, just 2 teams that are dieing from lack of revenueanyway and 30 players back in the pool
The teams...
…with the lowest revenue are Memphis and Milwaukee.
The Nets, Hornets, Timberwolves and Bobcats are pretty low as well.
Although with the Nets moving to Brooklyn…I guess they get a pass.
The Once and Future King
I'm surprised people here would want to send off Rondo to bring in Paul.
Let’s see, Rondo, a stand-up guy, amicably signed for a long-term contract, reached All-Star status, has won one title and came within minutes of another, while adjusting his game to mesh with whatever Celtic line up was on the court, and has never once complained about the media’s obsession with “The Big Three.”
Meanwhile Paul, a moody petulant All-Star, has won nothing, is carping about the lack of talent he’s surrounded with, and now has a unnamed, but “briefed friend” out explaining that he wants off his current team so he can be joined up with great players.
Oh, yeah. I can see why people would want to replace Rondo with Paul.
by no kidding on Jul 21, 2010 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Remember
Chris Paul is a guy that led a team of hobos to 56 and 49 wins in 08 and 09. And on those teams there is not one guy (with the exception of Paul) who would have started on the Celtics in the same years. I love Rondo but Paul is a more complete and better player and I for one would be happy for a straight swap.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes I know
But he still was entertaining during those years
Correct
But they would not start on the Celtics. I don’t see the point in saying that anyway, its just like saying Ray Allen would start on 25 teams in the league. Rondo would start on 27 teams in this league, one of the teams he would not start on though is New Orleans.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Not that I want to debate this quite moot point but as a matter of curiosity
I can think of only 3 teams who could say they would not start Ray at the 2
and one of them being Miami could easily make Wade the 1 and start Ray other than Kobe and Brandon Roy who would you play before Ray?
Probably
Add Joe Johnson to that list (if he is a SG). Then maybe OJ Mayo, Manu Ginobilli and Tyreke Evans.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
more complete?
No. He’s a better shooter. That’s not the same thing.
Rondo is a better rebounder and better defender. He’s also better at attacking the paint (although that would mean a lot more if he could make his free throws at a higher rate).
They are different. I’d give the overall edge to Paul right now. But Paul’s already had one bad injury and is probably already at his ceiling. Rondo’s game probably won’t reach its peak for another 2-3 years. At that point, I’m pretty confident Rondo’s value will be at least on a par with CP.
I made this post before
Rondos been in the league for 4 seasons and still cant shoot. He better develop a shot because once all that phenomanal speed goes (usually declines sharply after 30 in point guards) he will be average.
List of past super speedy point guards who never developed a shot and the age they hit the wall include (and by hit the wall I mean when their stats dropped off the earth and / or when they were benched):
Kenny Anderson – 30
Kevin Johnson – 31
Isiah Thomas – 31
Doc Rivers – 31
Tyrone Bogues – 31
Stephon Marbury – 30
Eric Snow – 31
Wheras point guards that actually had range are (and the age where their stats dropped off and / or when they where benched):
Derick Fisher – 35 and kicking
John Stockton – 40 Retired as a starting point guard
Jason Kidd – 36 and still going
Steve Nash – 35 and still going, bad back and all
Tim Hardaway – 35
The list goes on.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Rondo probably will not ever be a knockdown shooter (I’m not saying that is what you want him to be)….but all he has to do is be able to knock 20% or maybe a little more of his shots down.
First and foremost though…IMO is that he needs to work on his FT shooting. I think that is hurting his overall game more so than the lack of a solid jump shot.
The Once and Future King
40
Damn stockton, and never went vlamoring around for a ring either. Stand up dude
Exactly....
He didn’t join his buddy Karl on the Lakers for that sorry one year only attempt at a title.
The Once and Future King
jason kidd
That renowned shooter.
You’re just cherry-picking the facts to fit your argument. Rondo’s the fastest player in the league; none of the guys you mention were ever close to that.
by superluminal on Jul 22, 2010 3:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yes, i've seen your list before and it still isn't very relevant.
As someone else said, it screams of being cherry picked.
A better match than any of your above ‘fast guards who can’t shoot’ would be Gary Payton – Rondo resembles his game far more than any of the above. And Payton played to the ripe old age of 38 – and was very effective through 36.
Further, Stockton shot horribly from the 3PT line until around his 6th year or so. Fisher was nothing special shooting early and improved notably in his 5th-6th year. Kidd was a sub-70% FT shooter until his 4th year and from his 6th year on was usually above 80%.
I.E. – half the guys on your ‘shooters’ list show that players CAN dramatically improve their shooting percentages after the 4th year.
I see nothing to lead me to believe that Rondo won’t be as valuable or more valuable overall in the next 2-3 years as Chris Paul, which was my only contention.
I think Rondo is as valuable now.
-Less injury prone
-10 times the defender trumps Paul’s offensive prowess.
-Proven he can lead a team of great players
by Finkelskyhook on Jul 22, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Read the post not just the list
These players developed a shot and stayed in the league. The second sentence says that he better develop a shot.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I did read the post.
No where does it say that the lower list players ‘developed a shot’.
Further your very first sentence is the dismissive,“Rondos been in the league for 4 seasons and still cant shoot.” That implies heavily that you think that he won’t develop a shot, even if you then demand that “he better develop a shot”.
You had two basic points in your post – one, that fast guards without a shot won’t last – you support this with a selective list of nominally fast guards without a jump shot who burned out around age 30. I counter this with the much better fit to Rondo when it comes to physical type and play style in Gary Payton, who was very effective through age 36. I watched Payton a lot (I used to follow the Sonics since the 70s before the Great Debacle™ that lead them to become the OKC Thunder) and he is very much a prototype for the type of player Rondo is – although I think Rondo could end up being even better.
No guarantees that Rondo plays as long – pro athlete careers are capricious.
Your other point – implicit in your first sentence – that after 4 years it was getting late for Rondo to develop a jump shot. To counter that, I simply pointed out that half the guys on your list of long-lived ‘shooters’ developed improved shooting skills well after year 4.
Paul's career rebounding is better than Rondo's
CP3 4.7 rpg, Rondo 4.4
by nba is the worst on Jul 22, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
apples oranges
Paul has historically played more minutes per game. Not surprising given his importance as primary scorer on his teams. 37.3 MPG compared to just 30.8 MPG for Rondo. Trending wise, Rondo is playing more minutes in recent years – 36.6 MPG last year.
Career wise, per 36 minutes, they are identical at 3.8 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes.
If you include offensive rebounds Rondo leads in career average significantly at 5.1 Total rebounds per 36 minutes compared to CP at 4.5.
Also, given that rebounds come from a finite set
keep in mind that Rondo has to share his rebounds with KG & Perk – two of the better rebounders in the league (literally half of all our defensive rebound opportunities get grabbed by those two guys – no other tandem in the NBA combines for such a high percentage).
How did this get here
Was in reference to the low revenue teams comment from above
Absolutely
Paul is a gifted player but he’s a whiner and becoming high maintenance. Stephon Marbury anyone? He doesn’t have brains enough to do anything other than point at Miami and say “I want one of those”. And some fools on this site would trade Rondo for him
Chris Paul
Although CP didn’t mention Boston as one of the teams he would like to be traded to I would offer Rondo for CP today if New Orleans would take it. CP can shoot the ball and that’s what the Celitcs need at the PG spot. CP would make Boston a better team just simply due to the fact that he can shoot and Rondo can’t.
My only concern…CP did have knee surgery last year. Those types of injuries always make you think.
Rondo and Paul would probably butt heads if they were ever teammeates. Remember Shaq and Kobe? As much as I think Paul is more consistent and mature than Rondo, I don’t believe Rondo is yet in his prime so the C’s should hold onto him.
I agree Paul would be a good fit for New York. Wait for the arrival of Carmelo in 2011, if not earlier then the Knicks will be a contender and the eastern conference will become relevant again.
Good points on rondo
Though I am pretty sure the east is relevant
with Boston
Orlando
Miami
Chicago
Atlanta
???
Hell I expect both the bucks and knicks to turn a couple heads too
I don’t know if the lakes, mavs, blazers, jazz and rockets/spurs are better overall than the celtics, magic, heat, bulls and hawks. Course it’s only an opinion and we will have to wait and see but I think the conferences are becoming more balanced
I don't really think...
…that Atlanta is all that good. Sure they will make the playoffs but they will go out rather quickly once the playoffs arrive (just like this past year).
OKC with Durant and Westbrook running the show could be (along with a healthy Trail Blazer team) the surprise of the west.
The East will come down to the Heat, Orlando, Boston and maybe the Bulls as the fourth team there for the Semis.
The Once and Future King
Agree
Thunder, blazers and either Mavs or jazz round out the top 4 with the lakes and if healthy upsets could happen
I see your point though I disagree that the hawks are not good
I just think the Hawks reached a little giving Joey John all that money. They don’t have much room to improve. And they can’t beat the C’s, Heat or Orlando in a playoff series. They will be a playoff team no doubt…and unless there is an upset..they won’t do much.
I’d vote on the Mavs. As for the Jazz…I think they lost too much this off-season. Boozer, Korver…etc. I just don’t think they can mount a challenge in the West.
Totally agree with your point in that if healthy upsets can happen. That is why they play the games.
The Once and Future King
Chris Paul hasn't done anything in the postseason
Rondo has been to two finals and proven he can carry his team in the postseason when his big 3 teammates disappear.
Great, CP3 can shoot. But his defense is spotty. Rondo can’t shoot, but that’s what Pierce and Allen are for. Both PGs can pass, so that’s a wash. Give me defense and leadership over a glamor name who fills up stats……including the loss column.
Why trade for a guy that is not an overall upgrade over what we currently have and love, plus costs less money?
Exactly....
His defense is very spotty. The only reason why he gets any credit for his defense is that he had all of the steals in consecutive games.
The Once and Future King
Yes but, he has averaged double doubles
and doesn’t really want to be here.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Ugh.
I don’t really care where he goes.
Don’t want him.
He and Kobe can become best girlfriends. That ought to be interesting.
Seriously, what does it say about a guy that he uses members of his entourage to "send
word to the Hornets." What a complete puss.
+1000
The word is like nails on a chalkboard.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Wow! 1000 -- that must be some sort of record!
But I don’t know if it’s legal to award that many at once?
+2
With all this similarity to Lebron you’d think CP3 actually wants to join him in Miami. : X
Put a truly competent PG with an ego with the messiah.....
And you cement the messiah’s demise.
I’d be all for Paul going to Miami.
The only thing Jordan and the messiah have in common. There is no way they could co-exist with a great PG
by Finkelskyhook on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
So this what the NBA has come to?
Load up the lakers, knicks, and heat and fck everyone else? Thanks David stern. All for the money.
the few, the proud, the boston celtics
by bleedgreen34 on Jul 22, 2010 12:50 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
How could any team outbid Orlando?
Nelson and Gortat plus considerations for Paul. That’s actually pretty good for New Orleans and what does Orlando want with Nelson once Paul’s running their point?
--
The Pool, an e-novella
Available at judsonmerrill.com
New Orleans are a bunch of penny pinchers
They wouln’t want Gortats contract
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
A very moveable $7M/year contract for a starting center? And getting a steal on Nelson’s deal? No good? I think even the Pacers would take on those deals.
But ownership is certainly a factor. If George Shinn is trying to sell the team at the highest possible price, what’s the point in trading Paul at all? “Here, buy my franchise, Mr. Chouset. It has zero franchise players.”
--
The Pool, an e-novella
Available at judsonmerrill.com
by JudsonMerrill on Jul 22, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
lol....wow wish that wont happen...
maybe we can trade nate and luke for him, that will solve our backup PG.
Think he makes more than triple Nate
Not to mention he would not come off the bench
must be a joke
cant blame paul, thought he would have done it a bit quiter. but i cant see him going to LA or orlando. and the knicks just paid felton. so i think paul stays in NO to start the season. then gets moved at the deadline to a team not listed.
a couple teams i think may put a bid on him that could get him…
memphis- they could offer conley, carrol, thabeet, young, randolph and picks for paul and okafor.
bobcats- augistine, dampier, henderson, brown, couple picks.
pacers- dunleavy, foster, ford, goerge, picks
76ers- holliday, hawes, kapono, smith, green and picks
detroit- prince, stuckey, wilcox and the beloved draft picks.
76ers make the most sense, smith, holliday, lou williams, willie green, kapono are all some what young. plus the picks and the trade exception of dalembert (2+ million).. they could have a very young team.. collison, holliday, thornton, green, smith, williams, wright. then they can move peja and west to get some young bigs. they can move west to portland for oden and fernandez.. peja to new york for the eddie curry contract..
I agree...
On the Lakers boards the consensus seems to be that the Lakers aren’t willing to give up the pieces that NO wants, and that NO wouldn’t take what LA is willing to give up…
by Stanford_Fan on Jul 22, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Indiana needs a point guard badly,
Why wouldn’t Bird go after Paul? He’s got a lot of trading pieces that might interest NO. Don’t know if Paul likes Indy enough to go there. He wants to be surrounded by stars.
Granger qualifies
They have a couple nice role players too and I think more would join the combo of Paul/granger
indy is the other team that makes alot of sense.
they have the expiring contracts to free up alot of money for NO. foster, dunleavy are character guys. ford is a veteran that wont lose any games for them (he just wont win any for them either). then add in a goerge or stephenson to give NO young talent to put with collison, wright and thornton.
Rondo>Paul
Starit up. Rondos better. Quicker,Better Defense, and looks to pass first. Paul can score easier because his next best scorer is like David West… Rondo fits us better, and we have enough scorers like the old big 3 and now Oneal… There’s no way hes coming to Boston.. He will go to New York or LA. LA will have to give u Bynum though… NY is on top.. Magic will have to give up Nelson and Shard
by Therondofranchise on Jul 22, 2010 1:53 AM EDT reply actions
saying Rondo is better than Paul
is downright delusional. Paul’s posted seasons that near the greatest PG seasons of all time, Rondo’s never done anything close to that.
Paul doesn’t have to accept a trade; why would he go to the Pacers or another bad team when he’s already part of a rebuilding project?
Personally, I think LaMarcus Aldrige is more than available and headed to NO.
by superluminal on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I'm delusional and quite happy with Rondo.
Why do you think he can decline a trade to a bad team?
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
Count me as delusional also.
For all of the reasons No Kidding said above.
Aside from the notion that I don’t see Paul as being a better player….Particularly for our roster.
by Finkelskyhook on Jul 22, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont like bringing in paul do to a couple things.
1. rondo has won here..
2. rondo’s signed longer.
3. paul has already said to want to join amare in new york..
so if he has already hinted at that, i dont want to give a 23-24 year old pg with a ring, an all star game under his belt, and has proven that he wants to win every year. he could have not taken that deal that danny offered and who knows he could have went to ny, miami, phx, ??? but he signed to stay here. paul isnt going to do that. he will test the market, and then the celtics will be with no one to build around in 3 years.
Thats a good point
I think CP is the best PG in the league right now and would fit perfectly with the C’s. Think about it, if we met the Lakers with CP in the finals again Kobe would actually have to play D. He would have to guard Ray and chase him all over the court and expend that energy. He couldn’t play free safety D like he does on Rondo (who can’t shoot) because Paul will land wide open shots.
With that said though it would be a risk to trade Rondo in a package for Paul because;
We have Rondo stitched up for the next 5 years at a barging price.
Paul is only contracted for the next 2 and mite chuck a Lebron James and bolt after that.
Rondo might actually develop a decent mid range game to go along with all that speed and become a guy you put in the same conversation as Wade, Kobe and Leroid.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
DO NOT WANT!!!!!1
Just had to put that out there. DO NOT WANT.
- Dirk van Boxtel, the wandering Celtic fan.
Twitter: @4Hoopz
Chris Paul has wanted out of NO for so long
the first time I heard that, the Dead Sea was just sick!!
Paul may want out...
…but his and the Hornets options will be limited. Hornets will want a package of young players, picks and expiring contracts. Wolves might have that, but Paul probably wouldn’t want that either.
I do think CP is an All Star guard, but he is a gambler on D at best. He’s a no show at worst. Rondo is a better playmaker and a better defender. CP is, no question, a better offensive guard.
He’s a marketable player, so you have to think someone is going to be willing to empty the bank to get him. Can’t think of who though….
Crazy trade
Rockets sends Yao to Boston and Lowry to NO NO sends CP and Okafer to the Rockets we send Sheed, Perk ,Quis S/T plus next year’s # 1 to NO
by calc on Jul 22, 2010 8:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
no brainer
if CP3 was 30 yrs old I’d still do it to win now….and having him makes KG&Ray better for more yrs…this is almost the same as the KG trade-NO BRAINER….Rondo is a very good player but Paul is great.Rondo is unique but not in Paul’s league
How is Chris Paul better than Rondo? 3s and free throws? Who gives a shit. Rondo is far superior on defense. I don’t think Chris Paul is in Rondos league. I doubt anyone on the Celtics team would agree to have Paul over Rondo.
That is completely asinine.
Coulda woulda shoulda. CP3 doesn’t have a ring and the furthest he has ever been in the NBA is the second round of the playoffs. Rondo has a ring.
That is just like saying Rondo doesn’t put up as many points as CP3 because Rondo doesn’t need to have all the pressure on him because he has good players to pass too. How is CP3 better? Rondo’s FG% is better, Rondo is faster, Rondo plays superior defense…
Paul is better
because he doesn’t have a GRAND CANYON size hole in his game like Rondo does. As you have seen (if you were looking), teams can game plan around Rondo’s weakness. That can (and has) hurt other players around him.
Not to mention that Paul averages more assists and more points. Ten out of ten people outside of Celt fans would tell you that Paul is a better player.
Interesting
Paul would have had a monster triple double in game 4 that destroyed LJ and the Cavs?
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
wow
This reminds me of February/March when everyone was saying trade Ray Allen. Rondo broke two of Cousy’s records this past season, made all star team, and has progressed exponentially since last year. Whoever thinks Rondo should be traded for CP is an idiot. Rondo is far better a defense and much faster. I would say other than Rondo’s jump shot, he is the best point guard in the league.
Before people start saying how CP3 has a better shot than Rondo, look at these stats:
Rondo: season FG% .508, career FG% .489
Paul: season FG% .493, career FG% .473
I’m no math wiz, but it seems like Rondo has a better shot. CP3 takes more threes so he is better at that. The only thing that CP3 is notably better at is free throws. Does that mean trade Rondo? Paul needs to take more shots than Rondo because he doesn’t have many other people to pass to that can score besides maybe David West. If you don’t like the Celtics team, go root for a different one.
That's the way it is around here
I suspect those that want him gone for Paul are also the ones that lamented PP signing for 4 years because it would hurts Rondo’s prime.
"Do you know that nonbelievers create the most positive energy?" Davis said
too be fair, not all FG% are created equal
Rondo has a higher FG% because while he takes fewer shots overall, he takes more of them in the paint.
That is a good thing, but its not truly fair to compare his FG% directly with Paul’s FG% because Paul takes more perimeter shots, which are inherently lower percentage.
A better comparision would be TS% or eFG% which attempt to weight the different kinds of shots (a 3PT shot is low percentage, but high reward). Here are their 2009-2010 numbers:
Player TS% eFG%
Rondo .540 .517
Paul .584 .534
So Paul, as I think we intuitively expect, is indeed a better ‘true shooter’ and ‘effective shooter’. Not by a ton. Both of these guys are great players in this regard. Just different and Paul has the edge as a ‘shooter’.
Rondo’s ability to get to the hoop through the paint, though, is potentially very valuable if he could improve his FT%. If he could raise that to consistently be over 70%, then he could be deadly. Rondo is only taking about 3.4 FTAs per 36 minutes (and only making 2.1 of them). He needs to get both those numbers up to at least something like 4.2 of 6.
Scoring via FTs earned in the paint is extremely valuable not only because of the points, but because of the foul count pressure it puts on the other team. That’s why Pierce is such a premier player. Rondo has the potential to be that kind of player. I would rate improving his FT% as more important than his 3PT%.
You've got a championship caliber point guard already....
and you want to trade him? No – better if you ask me – to go with Rajon
+1
WTF is wrong with Boston fans? They think they have an answer for everything. Well the Celtics would have won if this happened or if this player was on our team…. The celtics made it to game 7 of the f*cking finals! They are the eastern conference champions. Every god damn sports commentator in the US was raving about Rondo all season, how the Lakers had to put Kobe on Rondo because Fisher (who has won the most championships out of anyone currently in the league.. 5) couldn’t even keep up with him… And now people want to trade him. Eat shit.
+1
Quite agree with your sentiments and anger, but you can get suspened from the site for this kind of response
No
They put Kobe on Rondo because it allowed Kobe to be a free safety on defense and conserve his energy for offense because Rondo doesn’t have a mid range shot. Also in transition Rondo would have to guard Kobe if the C’s missed a shot and they would exploit that matchup because Kobe is stronger.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
They put Kobe on Rondo because Kobe doesn't cover Ray.
That’s been true for longer than since Ray has been with the Celtics.
Its that simple.
Yes, they let Fisher run through all the picks they set for Ray...
Ray Allen is great at off-ball movement and Fisher is better at getting through picks than Kobe is.
by Stanford_Fan on Jul 23, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
the country is in a mess. europe is no better. but our athletes live like royalty and act like spoiled brats and we fall all over them. come on folks, screw baby paul and all his comrades who show no shame, act above their contracts and are as bad as the franchise ownners, letting fear and greed run thier lives while they give us a baloney line to occupy espn for a week or so. barf.
Pietrus/Nelson for CP3
Orlando needs to make a helluva deal since their neighbours in Miami got their dream team together. I would expect Orlando having the pieces in order to get the best deal and by sending Pietrus and Nelson for CP3, it should seal the deal.
Orlando gets top 3 PG in the league today and Hornets will get Nelson´s 2 year 7m deal and 1 year 5m deal of Pietrus giving them cap space convenience, as well as getting two strong players.
If i was the Orlando´s GM I wouldnt tolerate Miami getting stronger like this and would want to get this deal done.
Hate to say this
but if Paul wants out, he’ll likely gets traded and the Lakers, Orlando and others will go hard after him. I felt good about next seasons chances for #18 but after what Miami pulled off, the C’s losing TA and not getting Brad Miller (I’m not at all sold on JO), we’re not getting #18 if Paul goes to LA, Orlando or any other top team.
Rondo
Rondoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Enough said, Rondo is the Point Guard of our team.
by Stanley Acosta Calderón on Jul 22, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions
Keep Rondo, still get Paul!
NO wants cap relief, they don’t want another long term contract (even if it is for the best point guard in the league). Maybe they’d take Sheed’s contract with some picks, filler and junk with a 3rd team to get Paul here. If not, and he goes to the Knicks, they instantly become relevant (sorry Amare, you aren’t there yet). If he goes to the Magic, you’ve got to pencil them in for top in the conference… Either way, neither move helps us…
Rondo>Paul
Stats and gameplay aside. Rondo is the better fit for the Celtics. No denying Paul would do well here, but the time it takes for him to acclimatize to our environment may be the difference between winning it all and not.
Also chemistry is tricky, you have it or you don’t, who knows if CP3 would fit in with our other egos in the locker room.
Believe in 18.
Why is praising Paul bashing Rondo?
I hate to agree with Bill Simmons, but Boston would be a very likely destination. Who else can offer a player like Rondo in return who is signed to one of the most team favorable contracts in basketball?
I love Rondo’s game, but Paul’s level of performance is pretty historic when he’s healthy. On the other side, the Celtics wouldn’t have to give up very much to acquire one of the premiere talents in the league.
I don’t think Rondo’s going anywhere, primarily because Danny was a genius and signed him to that deal.
Man, some people are totally nuts.
How anyone could fathom giving up Rondo for Chris Paul is completely beyond me. Sure, Rondo isn’t a great shooter, but he IS improving, and he is so skilled in so many other ways that all he needs to be is serviceable. It’ll improve.
I agree with those who have said the priority is his free throw shooting. As we’ve seen, he’s shown in spurts that his FT shooting has improved as well, he just needs to be more consistent with it.
He’s an awesome finisher and can get his points by finishing at the rim. I agree that he needs to improve, but have some patience with the guy.
We know what we’d have in Paul, and I think Rondo’s ceiling is clearly higher.
Rondo's season and career FG% are both higher than Chris Pauls...
So saying CP3 is a better shooter is not true at all. They are close, but what CP3 does better is FT%. Trade a younger player with more potential and more post season experience for an injury prone PG in his prime? Does not make sense to me.
CP3 is 100% of the Hornet's offense
Rondo doesn’t have the scoring burden on him like Paul does, so Rondo can be more selective with his shooting. That would make sense…
Anyway, all of these arguements are moot, Rondo is staying and if the Hornets traded Paul it would likely be for cap relief and picks to start rebuilding from scratch, because they’d have nothing.
Yes it is, paul is a better shooter, Layups aren't shots.
A shooter is something different. it’s like saying lebron is a better shooter than kobe because he has a higher FG%, that is not true.
by Dolphins21MZ on Jul 22, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't want to ever trade Rondo, but...
I think we would have beat LA if we had CP3. Rondo became hesitant when the series went back to LA because he wasn’t hitting his FT. But he’s also the reason we were in the finals, and his skill set is so unique. I guess it boils down to who could attract better free agents to come to Boston. CP3 is part of the “boys club” but who wouldn’t want to play with rondo? Plus I found it surprising how instrumental he was in getting JO in green. Either way we end up with a top 5 pg.
"They don't buy all those banners at Woolworths."
-- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, on all the championship banners at Boston Garden
by Brett Szabo on Jul 22, 2010 12:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I love Rondo
so don’t take this the wrong way but does he really finish well at the rim? I think he ends up throwing up a lot of floaters and such when confronted by bigs in the paint. Now some of those floaters go in but at times they don’t. I feel that Paul and Deron Williams can finish at a higher level in the paint. Both would be guys you would not mind iso-ing with as the shot clock winds down or at the end of games due to being able to get a better shot attempt off. Also both would be better at the foul line than Rondo. When Rondo corrects this he will surpas them on the food chain but he hasn’t yet. That said, I’m glad we have under a very good team friendly deal for the next five years.
I love Rondo
I meant I’m glad we have Rajon for the next five years.
FG%
I’ve seen several posters say Rondo has the better FG% over last year and their careers….to play devils advocate…has anyone looked into how many shots Paul has taken versus Rondo? Plus how many of those shots are jumpers, 3’s versus layups? I think most of Rondo’s shots are within a few feet from the basket and CP3 has the range to shoot many outside J’s…I think we need to factor these in to get a true reading on their FG%’s.
Paul vs Rondo
I love Rondo, but I don’t know how you could prefer him over Paul. First of all, Paul is no slouch on defense. He averages 2.4 steals per game for his career, better than Rondo. He is a much better jump shooter than Rondo. When the shot clock winds down, who do you want taking the jumper, Rondo or Paul? And you can’t just gloss over the difference in FT %. In the Cleveland series, Rondo took 44 ft’s in 6 games. In the Lakers series, he took 19 in 7 games. He lost confidence in his shot, wasn’t aggressive going to the hoop, and the offense became stagnant. That’s part of the reason they lost game 7. With Paul, that’s not a concern. Oh yeah, Paul just turned 25. He’s in his prime. This is a no-brainer.
steals
not really fair to compare steals per game when until last year Rondo didn’t play anywhere near the number of minutes per game that Paul plays.
Last year, per 36 minutes, Rondo averaged 2.3 steals. Paul averaged 2.0.
Both are great players. I prefer Rondo for this team for reasons I’ve stated elsewhere.
+1.... Agree wholeheartedly
You forgot to mention that he only made 5 free throws TOTAL in those 7 games. But yes, they were in the Finals because Rondo played well throughout the playoffs.
I love Rondo too, but the Rondo apologists will make excuses for his game because (as pointed out above) he is “our” guy. They forget that we all want to see him do well and succeed but aren’t hesitant to point out the flaws in his game.
For what it’s worth, I would rather keep Rondo.
Without question.
I love Rondo, he’s fantastic, but his shooting has been a problem for this team. And as the Big 3 age further, will become more of a problem. Now if NO is going to trade Paul, their likely going into full rebuild mode, meaning they’ll want to unload Okafor’s long term deal, and give them a lot more flexibility.
Simmons put out the idea of Rondo + Perk + Sheed’s deal + ‘10 1st rounder + Cash considerations for CP3 + Okafor. I’m not sure exactly how that deal works under the CBA, but I love it.
Okafor’s a bit small to play Center at 6’10, but he plays bigger, and is perfectly capable there. He’s a solid post presence, and one of the best defenders/rebounders in basketball. Then you add the best PG in basketball (no offense to Rondo, but CP3s game is just more complete, he can hurt you in so many ways) to find shots for the Big 3, and in my mind, that starting 5 is by far the best in Basketball. There are literally no weaknesses in it. You have two years of that starting five. Pauls deal comes off the books in 2012, along with everything else on the Celtics, and you have only Pierce and Okafor under contract with plenty of options on where to spend.
If NO would bite, I don’t see how you say no to that, as much as it’d pain me to see Rondo go.
And just so you know
Okafor’s the same height as Perkins at 6’10". So by small, he’s simply not as big as opposed to not as tall; Perkins is 25 pounds bigger. So, on top of Okafor’s offensive game (which I admired as a UConn fan), if he can defend, we’re set.
Still, I dunno if Danny’s willing to trade Rondo. He’ll have to tell us.
You are correct.
I always forget Perk is only 6’10, he has such a great wingspan and shot blocking timing it makes you feel like he’s 7’3 out there.
But yes, you are absolutely right.
Oh and...
It also makes some sense for NO too. Rondo’s deal is an absolute steal at 9mil, and gives them a great PG to start building a new team around, and although Perk is injured, he’s a great piece for the future if they keep him (and they’ll be in rebuild mode next year anyway, so it wont matter much that he’s not playing.) They get cap space moving off Sheed’s contract, and tons of options in the draft next year with 1 likely lottery pick, plus Boston’s 1st rounder. Great opportunities to start building again.
If their going to lose Paul anyway, that’s some real nice stuff to be bringing in. Beats anything New York, Orlando, or LA can offer IMO.
I agree
Even though Paul is only contracted for 2 more years he is the better player now. And all of Rondos talents will be wasted when the big 3 go (in 2 years) and the C’s have to rebuild.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jul 22, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
another Paul factor
Wouldn’t he be pretty insistent on receiving a max extension once he gets to his new destination?
I doubt the timing of this is a coincidence. The players are afraid of the next CBA, Paul wants to get paid now, I’d think. The cost of this to the Celtics in the short and long term may not be a big deal, but it would have to be part of the consideration. A max free agent in two years would require somewhere on the level of a third of that combination, if the experts are correct.
by superluminal on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's a crazy thought.
But Paul has mentioned the desire to team up and create his own “big 3” with the amount the cap space the Celtics will free up in 2012, it’s conceivable that they could bring in another max player or two that year, and resign Paul with his Bird rights. If the deal happened, with only Okafor and Pierce of contract (ties up about 27mil I believe) in 2012, gives them in the range of 30mil to spend. Granted, we don’t know what the new CBA will look like, so this is all speculation. But still, it’s conceivable that the Celtics could pull something off with that much space available, and the birds rights on Paul.
This is all pipe dream stuff obviously, just saying, there are definite possibilities there.
I like pipe dreams.
Keep on dreaming……….. makes the tough days that life brings us a little easier to bear.
Well, aside from the issue of whther Paul is better than Rondo or not....
did anyone notice that CP3 DID NOT list Boston as a place he wanted to go? Don’t know why, but there it is….
Doesn’t that pretty much make most of the above posts irrelevant?
He didn't mention Boston because...
The Lakers and Knicks have no legitimate point guard. Derek Fisher is an undersized shooting guard who is like what, 37 now? Last I knew, Knicks were looking at Raymond Felton, which CP3 would obviously start ahead of. Boston has better trading chips than both of those teams though.
Even though Boston already has a point guard...
he could STILL have listed Boston as a preferred destination.
The Magic DO have a point guard already, and Paul said he’d be willing to go there. So I don’t think that’s it. I think the simpler explanation is that he doesn’t want to go to Boston for some, unknown reason…
by Stanford_Fan on Jul 22, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I just think
That Rondo is a better talent than Jameer Nelson. Maybe being a Celtic fan is letting my bias show through, but I’d think that, if most teams in the NBA were asked which pg they’d rather have, Nelson or Rondo, that damn near all of them would take Rondo any day over Nelson.
True, Rondo IS better than Nelson...
But that doesn’t prove your original point. Nelson is still a starting point guard in the NBA and THAT hasn’t dampened Paul’s enthusiasm for Orlando. And if Rondo became part of the trade and wound up in NO, why would CP3 care if Rondo is in Boston or not?
I don’t think players make these lists based on who is on the roster that plays their position. They know that the rosters are fluid. Remember, the Lakers were on Chris Bosh’s list even though the Lakers are not looking for a PF.
by Stanford_Fan on Jul 22, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
keep rondo
we drafted him lets keep him in the celtic family while pierce passes the tourch to rondo
Correct me if I'm wrong
but doesn’t NO have Darren Collison as a young, upcoming point guard? Maybe they wouldn’t Rondo back in any sort of deal. Of course, they could flip him to another destination.
CP shoots threes well
So does Ray. Maybe NO would like Ray and Sheed’s contract for CP.
I would hate to see Rondo go. Ray is a very classy guy and I am glad we have him, but CP is a lot younger. Imagine CP and Rondo out on the break.
No. Way.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." - Vince Lombardi
Rondo fits perfect with this team even though cp3 is the better player..and its not like he would come to boston anyway so why is this even on hear
by KyleChristian15 on Jul 22, 2010 4:16 PM EDT reply actions
only simmons is thinking that
neither both teams nor cp3 has showed any interest in that i think
by friedgreentomatoes on Jul 22, 2010 5:13 PM EDT reply actions
I think he’s probably going to the Cavs.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Jul 22, 2010 5:19 PM EDT reply actions
If we traded perk and rondo
why would CP want to come here. Thats practically our only young talent to support him.
rondo out and cris paul in sounds better to me!!!!!
Celtics fan’s out there don’t be so stupid look at the stats!!! wake up and take a 5hrs energy or something… i know he is good and all won a championship but if cris was here will win more…..all i’m saying stop being fan and look at the stats
by harold.familia@yahoo.com on Jul 24, 2010 12:34 AM EDT reply actions
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