Celtics Re-sign Marquis Daniels
by Jeff Clark on Jul 22, 2010 8:17 PM EDT
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Marquis Daniels agrees to 1-year deal with Celtics - BostonHerald.com
Marquis Daniels, hoping for a fresh restart with the Celtics [team stats] after an injury-plagued 2009-10 season, just agreed to terms with his old team on his second straight one-year contract - this time a $2.5 million deal.
At the beginning of the offseason I really wouldn't have seen this happening. But as the days passed and the free agents went elsewhere and we kept hearing names that were out there, few of them seemed like a better fit than Marquis Daniels.
In fact, the larger question for me was if Marquis would want to come back to the team that essentially benched him for Tony Allen. Turns out he did, and with Allen out of the way, perhaps he can have the kind of season he was hoping for last year. He's got another 1 year deal and if he has a good season, he might be able to cash in on the free agent market next year. That seems to be his agent's plan.
"He's a $5 million or $6 million player when he's healthy," said Bartelstein. "So we'll do this now. He loves the team. He loves playing for Doc (Rivers), and he loves the guys. And then we'll see what happens next summer."
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good deal, we get Marquis at a bargain price
He will redeem himself this year. He was great at the start of last year.
2nd year bargain
Last year we knew we were getting a great deal at 1.9M. The plan was to try and sign him for more money last year, which is why the signing took so long during the summer.
This year, the deal seems very good for us again.
(however it’s not my money)
He got a raise !!
I am OK with him coming back, but with a 20% pay raise? I don’t think so. Most ordinary folks would not even dream of a raise with that kind of peformance at work.
by getthat18now on Jul 23, 2010 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions
for a guy worth about 5-7 million a year
it’s a deal and a steal. We just need him to produce like he did when he started for the Pacers
Jeffrey M Melhorn
reality check
if you dont mind mediocrity for record—-35-47 season????—-give ainge the credit—threw another ball out of bounds—-could have signed barnes, shaq—-but not ainge…
Whew!
Last year was tough for Marquis, but I’ve no trouble with recycling the optimism about M. Daniels from the start of last year. Glad he’s aboard.
by Thruthelookingglass on Jul 22, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions
Daniels has his strengths, and he'll help ...
but I’d like to see the C’s get someone who can, you know, hit a jump shot.
by rocknrollforyoursoul on Jul 22, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe we should bring back Eddie House
by beantownboy171 on Jul 22, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I'd love to have Eddie back
And most of you are feeling a whole lot more optimistic about the Daniels signing than I am. Yes, he looked good at the start of the year, but . . .
Isn’t he known to be injury prone?
PAUL, NATE, KG, RAY
How many shooters you need, Dr. Downer?
by Benjamin Barak on Jul 23, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean off the bench.
Nate yes, but that’s all.
by rocknrollforyoursoul on Jul 22, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Good mid-range jumper, yes
though I was thinking more about long range
by rocknrollforyoursoul on Jul 22, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Long range
Things that House provided!! along those lines… Just watch the last Finals where the C’s spacing was horrible for lack of outside shooting.. When RAY RAY and Paul are off, you can’t expect KG to be chucking jumpers all the time!! Someone in the mold of Matt Barnes or Artest who are feisty, lock down defender and has range….
I heard some guy named Paul can hit an outside shot here and there.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
And there's this guy, Kevin, with some AKs, some 9s, and rocket launchers that can shoot from up to 20 feet.
We have shooters. We need a back up PF/C while Perk is still out.
What's the matter? The CIA got you pusing too many pencils?
seem to recall
Nate Robinson hitting a 3 or too…
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Jul 23, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm really really happy about this
Atleast its someone. And he looked good before he got injured. Maybe he can find that again… maybe.
Nice!
Most people were happy when we got him last summer. Hopefully with a second chance he will have a better season. We don’t have to use any trade assets (i.e. Sheeds contract) and he is better than most of what is left for the wing spot so this is a good deal. Still would like 1 more wing though.
Nice!
I’d be happy if Danny brought back Eddie House. So looking forward to that start of the season!
Aussie Girl, Celtics Fan.
Yup
It was dumb to have let go of House anyway in the first place.. Even Phil Jackson was perplexed with that move and said, you can’t get any better with Eddie House’s skill set, he said he hated playing against him because he spaces the floor so much which makes it hard to double team in the post!!
We got him for Nate....
Nate is as good a shooter as eddie is if not better. + Nate is a more skilled and athletic player. what are you talking about?
Tell Doc that
A 5 9 guard really? If Doc continues to only use him for 12 minutes then he’s no better than when House was there. At least house didn’t need the ball that much. There’s a diference between a spot up shooter and a ball hog like Nate!!
had to give up Eddie for Nate
I’d love to have Eddie back….(and) we still have Nate as well. That would have been ideal but in a trade you gotta give something.
Eddie and Nate = good.
YES!!!!... And now...
WE NEED A LONG SF PLEASE!!!!!
Nocioni anyone?
nope T Young + Spegiths + hawes for Sheed+ Laffayette
you can keep the 12 million dollar White Boyz. Let me say that one more time Kapono and Nocioni both make more then Sheeds contract. that’ll be a big PASS
Jeffrey M Melhorn
Now we need DA to make a deal for Sheed's contract that nets a Big.
I would love to see Sheed and Perk to NO for Okafor. He is perfect for this team now and going forward. If DA can include Rondo to bring back Chris Paul, then I am on board. Paul makes our starting 5 the best in the NBA. No weak links. No more perimeter liabilities.
Honestly, he was looking like the best option left.
I liked Marquis’s game in Indy, and was very psyched when we got him last year. Tony Allen took over his minutes. This year, He’ll get to be the primary backup at the 2 and 3. if he can average 10 a game off the bench, that’s all I would ask for from him.
Well there's a reason Tony took his minutes
TA is a better defender, plain and simple. I would have rather signed TA for 3yrs/$10M than Quis.
PLUS, Barnes for $1.7M is a much better deal than Quis for $2.5M (better AND cheaper).
But that’s all water under the bridge now. This move was needed.
TRUE BUT
You can’t base players careers off one season, even if it was their last one. Posey slid a bit when he left, Nate wasn’t as good as we’d hoped, etc. That could all turn around next year: Marquis rises to the top with no injuries and regular minutes, Nate figures out the offense, and JO is healthy. It can all go bad too, but you gotta give Danny credit for doing the best he could with this offseason. Remember, it pretty much sucks FOR ANY team outside of Miami.
by Benjamin Barak on Jul 23, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
the other recent pictures of him
were all of him laying on the ground or sitting on the bench
…I wish I were joking
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
Seriously...
He looks like he should be stting on a toilet! LOL
Nice move
I think Daniels was held back by first by injury and second by a combination of Tony Allen’s resurgence and what appeared to be his own lack of confidence. He’s got a tentative side to him that’s aggravating because when he lets it all hang out (hair included) he clearly plays great D, knows how to move around on offense slashes nicely enough. So-so shooter, but I think Bradley might fill the voice with his mid-range jumpers. But it’s a smart move and the money’s right. And yes, let’s get that big with Sheed’s contract.
He showed nothing last year
even when you suck you can show heart-I don’t like this move at all
by calc on Jul 22, 2010 8:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Here're three reasons why I'm happy he'll be back.
First, he’s a known commodity. The Celtics know he can fit in with the team. Compared to a new face, he’s unlikely to have any major problems suddenly surfacing. It’s nice to avoid distractions.
Secondly, before he was hurt last season, the team just seemed to function rather smoothly when he was on the floor – even though he seldom seemed to do anything that showed up in the stats. The offense just looked more efficient.
Finally, in terms of what’s out on the market, he seems comparatively like a pretty choice.
the team just seemed to function rather smoothly when he was on the floor
This is very true.
When he subbed for Pierce (with the starters) the defense suffered a slight bit but the offense actually ran a hair better so the overall was pretty much equally effective. With the second team, that unit generally ran better on offense with Daniels on the floor.
Here is a table of our various 5-man units and how well they performed:
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910BOS2.HTM
It is sorted by minutes played. The important columns to look at are the offensive and defensive efficiency ratings (points per possession) – but keep in mind for units with less than 100 minutes played – you don’t really have very much data.
he's playing for money
which is good cuz he’s gunna try n put up good numberss but might be bad if we cant re sign him again nxt year
this is great...
Hopefully he will come back with a renewed energy. His averages of 13.6 ppg / 4.6 rbp / 2.1 apg / 1.2 spg in 08-09 were fantastic – better than anyone we really could have signed this year. I know he kind of fell by the wayside this past year, but if he can get past his injuries, we really couldn’t do better. Welcome back Marquis!
wow
he likes doc, doc likes him, i like daniels so the question is are we gonna actually play him ????? lol
pic
this is the picture in where he got the concussion in the playoffs that sidelined for the series, this concussion came right after BIG BABY’s concussion when he was dizzy on the court.
Which reminds me:
HATE THE MAGIC!!!
Until Dwight leaves the team. Then hate the next team Mr SuperGrin plays for.
Irresponsible I stand...
Welcome Back Quizy -
He played well the 1st half of the season and we went 27 – 5 , Hes also best friends with u no who ? Josh Howard , does that mean Howards next ? i bet they already have talked bout this , he is a guy the Celtics are looking at for a wing .
by fRANKZILa 2 1 on Jul 22, 2010 9:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
seems like a value signing
if he can stay healthy he’ll be a bargain
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
It's really a no-brainer
Getting a little late in the free agent game and this signing doesn’t really restrict the Cs from doing what they need to do (trade Sheed’s rights and get another sg/sf for cheap. Oh yeah, and resign Scal! I mean it. The guy knows the offense, defense and at the vet min what the hell.
Agree no risk with Scal...
for the minimum I’ll take Jackie Moon to be on what used to be injured reserve most of the season but be able to shoot a jumper and give six fouls when we are thin up front. And We WILL be!
that pic up top better not be an indication of another injury plagued season
if Quis stays healthy and gets with the program from the start, he’ll help. He needs to give up 15-20 quality minutes in the regular season and at least 10 mins in the post season.
he should try to be more aggressive scoring but I don’t know who’s the number 1 or 2 scoring option for the second unit. Nate and ?
Damn
I was really hoping we saw the last of him
by jackscompletelackofsurprise on Jul 22, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions
im happy they keep daniels. there is fewer and fewer options out there.
resigning daniels cost us little cap flexibility cap-wise. now if we could bring in josh howard he and marquis will have a reunion party in beantown we need some one who could defend and also shoot open 3s!
by friedgreentomatoes on Jul 22, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions
Marquis is more of a "plus" than a "negative"
Celts could have done much worse.
How?
I was just wondering how exactly we fit ‘Quis’ $2.5 into our cap… I thought that since he signed a one-year deal with us last year we didn’t have his Bird rights and couldn’t go over the cap to re-sign him… Haven’t heard anything about using the bi-annual exception (which is only like $1.9, I believe) in this deal either.
if I understand correctly
we have his non-Bird rights which lets us re-sign him to up to 20% higher than his last salary
same thing we did with Nate
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" Henry V
No Bi-Annual Exception This Season
In addition, we used up our biannual exception on him last season.
Correct...
No Bi Annual exception this year and Quis had non Bird rights so 120% of this year + $100k if I’m not mistaken.
He signed last season using the bi-annunal exception
which would have allowed only a 8% raise for a second season.
He only takes the single season and then he is allowed a 20% raise for the second season? Why would anyone take the second year of the BAE and be limited to 8% for the second year?
If my memory serves me right, the BAE last year was 1.99mil. A 20% raise would net him just under 2.4mil, so the 2.5mil salary listed has to be not quite correct.
Either way, I hope his left thumb has had a chance to totally heal. I don’t believe it truely got better last season. He always had it taped and the injury kept him from gripping the ball enough when he picked up the dribble and drove to the hoop one handed. It seemed to squirt out when he drove, which led to him losing his confidence and his playing time.
That’s my theory about what lead to him being benched.
by GetYourSoxOn on Jul 23, 2010 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions
If I understand it correctly its not "up to 20%"
The rule wording seems to be that we must pay exactly that.
I may be misinterpreting.
Even if I am wrong, for all intents and purposes it may as well be that. I’ve never heard of a Non-Bird Exception player being signed for anything but 120% of prior year’s contract.
Man – I could use a 20% raise …
Now bring in Rodney Carney and Josh Boone!
by farias on Jul 22, 2010 9:31 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yes
Rondo, Robinson, Lafayette?
Allen, Bradley
Pierce, Daniels, Gaffney?
Garnett, Davis, Wallace?
O’Neal, Perkins, Erden?
That’s what the current roster looks like. I believe Lafayette, Gaffney and Erden’s contracts are not guaranteed.
by King Coebra on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Lafayette....
I’ve been wondering (especially during Summer League) what Ainge sees in this guy.
He is horrible. IMO.
The Once and Future King
According to Chris Forsberg, Boston's filled 12 roster spots ...
which includes Sheed. Lafayette and Gaffney have nonguaranteed contracts.
by rocknrollforyoursoul on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Only Maybe
I’m almost positive that Erden has a guaranteed contract for about $400K and I believe he will get some minutes (8-10 per game) this season. But Gaffney and Lafeyette do no have guaranteed contracts. Also, I believe that Harangody makes the team so I can’t see both Lafayette and Gaffney making the team especially because we still have needs.
IMHO we need another shooter – I’d like to see us sign Jarvis Hayes or Matt Barnes (not likely) – and a big if Sheed does retire as expected.
I believe you are correct on the non guarantees for L,G & E
so I would say we are more likely at 10 contracts + Sheed’s deal.
Josh Howard says on his website that Marquis is his best friend
Ive mentioned it before but this might be part of how we get this done
This replaces Tony essentially but if we can get Howard AND Sheed comes back I think we are the team to beat
Good Call. I think this strengthens our position with Howard as one of his favorites
I like trading Sheed’s deal for Josh Howard, then signing Josh Boone to e our 5th big…4th until Perk comes back. Boone is a good rebounder. Not much offense, but Nate Shrek and Howard can provide the bench scoring. also don’t count out Avery Bradley. I think he will be a big surprise, but then again, we all know how Doc feels about Rookies.
by SCBirdman33 on Jul 22, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Marquis
He is not a bad player specially for this price, I think if he remains healthy he can really contribute.
by Stanley Acosta Calderón on Jul 22, 2010 10:33 PM EDT reply actions
Larger question of a larger question
If Daniels comes back that means he’ll keep #7 so then what # could O’Neal wear?
These are issues that The Celtics Organization will have to look into for future generations of players. This is a major issue.
by bbeingphilled on Jul 22, 2010 10:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think about that as well...
….especially after the C’s pick up a player in free agency or trade for a guy….it’s interesting to see what number they wear.
The Once and Future King
Daniels or Barnes?
At this point, is Daniels a better fit for the C’s? Matt Barnes is the more aggressive defender I would think. Though I’m OK with the signing considering what’s left out there. But still I have to wonder.
Barnes has not agreed to come here.
Daniels did agree to come here.
Celtics may prefer Barnes too, but he has a lot of options. Cant force a guy to take your minimum offer.
S&T
There’s always the sign and trade. Maybe $2.5M would be good enough for Matt Barnes.
by LarryBird33 on Jul 22, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Barnes
Reportedly just signed a two year deal to play with the Lakers. Let the hating commence!
by King Coebra on Jul 22, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Barnes to the Lakers
for 2 yrs, 3.6M. At 1.7M a yr, Barnes is definitely a bargain. Why couldn’t the Celtics get him? Did you go after him hard enough?
by getthat18now on Jul 22, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
oops! Did "we" go after him hard enough?
Of all places, he landed in LA. Damn!
by getthat18now on Jul 22, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Cavs offered Barnes twice as much as LA...
He went to UCLA, Lakers are two-time defending champs…not a total shock.
Yep and he will be able to replace...
…Artest when Ron forgets to take his meds. It’s a real good by the lakers; they now have twelve fouls to use against LeBron.
You're assuming that Barnes will be taking his...
Barnes looks equally crazy as Artest on the court.
by Finkelskyhook on Jul 23, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Marquis and Josh Howard
Now that would make things interesting!
If they are friends and if Danny can get Josh Howard:
Nate / Avery
Quisy /
Howard / Gaffney
BBD / Harangody
JO / ??? (once Perk is healthy)
Not a bad bench
http://www.joshhoward.com/?q=node/267
60% dow the page
“I’ve formed some great friendships through my time in the NBA. My closest friend, I would have to say is Marquis Daniels. He’s a guy that came in with me and a lot of people didn’t have high expectations for either of us coming into Dallas. But we proved a lot of people wrong. We’re both still in the league to this day, myself here in Washington and Marquis in Boston.”
i realize everyone is busy but ive been posting this for awhile…you can bet DA knows this as does Doc, since I know it;>)
value comes in Feb
Daniels has a nice ending contract with Baby & Perk come Feb trade deadline….let’s face facts,if TA signed here we never sniff Daniels…this was a body/roster spot with a GREAT contract
Not Hard To Predict
Except for his injuries, he’ll compliment Nate and with a training camp together, the chemistry will build…and knock off the CP3 garbage….Rondo can’t shoot but still stuffs a stat sheet in more places than CP3….and he’s been to more finals….and he has a ring..and he defends like no one’s business…..
Ditto, Floppy.
I don’t get the allure with Paul. We have a guy who’s built his game around his teammates…Plays great defense, and is improving on his weaknesses. Against somebody with questionable durability, attitude, and allegiance…..Short of steals, average defender at best
Hoping you’re right on Daniels.
by Finkelskyhook on Jul 23, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, Barnes goes to LA
How hard did DA try to get him?
Either not hard enough or Barnes did not want to come here at all
Many teams would have offered him similar or sweeter deals.
by getthat18now on Jul 22, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
God, give me a break.
How was Ainge supposed to force Barnes to come here? What is going after him hard enough? They could only offer him exactly what LA did. Do you think Ainge wouldn’t take him at that price? We get it already, you dislike Danny Ainge.
Barnes gets to choose where he wants to play. Just because we like Boston best doesn’t mean everyone on earth does. You think its Ainges fault that a guy from California, who went to UCLA, decided to play at home with the defending champions rather than choose to play for the same price with Boston?
hmmmmm
Thats ridiculous.
Man crush on Ainge. lol
So how do you explain him lagging and waiting this whole free agency out and just picking from the litter because they can’t afford players due to the limited cap space. For god’s sake, their own superstar PP is saying, he needs to get on the ball a bit more…. I dont dislike DA, i want his *ss fired!!!!!!
I agree
We need to fire Ainge and bring a master manipulator of the salary cap in to run the squad. I wonder if Criss Angel or David Copperfield are available?
Because he can only offer the minimum to non Celtic free agents.
Why would players who are good, sign quickly with any team for the minimum? They will exhaust all options looking for more than the minimum before doing so. Then, you just have to hope that the player who can likely play for the minimum anywhere, chooses Boston.
Wouldn’t it be great if in your world it was like a grocery store and the GM could just go up and down the aisles and pick whoever he wanted? Sadly, this is real life, and the players have options too.
And wanting Ainge fired is hilarious.
Simple enough
Barnes feels no chance for Eastern team vs the Heat next few years [since the Press have already annointed them NBA East Champions for the next 20 or 30 years], figures Lakers best chance to make some dough and get a ring. Unfortunately, easier to sit deep on Lakers bench and wait until P.O. time for a little action.
Lets just hope he doesnt get injured once again like he does every season
by KyleChristian15 on Jul 22, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions
This is Boston's current roster?
Rondo,
Robinson,
Lafayette
Ray Ray
Bradley
Pierce
Daniels
Gaffney?
Garnett,
Davis
O’Neal,
Perkins?,
Erden?
+1
Wallace is also still considered part of the roster.
by King Coebra on Jul 23, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
This has to be one of the 'smallest' rosters in the league.
Boston has one legit center.
Even if Perk comes back in January or Feb. there are no guarantees he will be the same.
How will this team rebound, block shots and defend?
Not sure about that
IF Rasheed returns the roster will look very similar to last season. O’Neal will replace Perkins which will give us another offensive weapon and Daniels will replace TA, whose annual health issues made him completely unreliable anyways. Nate should improve with a full year to cement his role. Davis will hopefully stay out of fights and not miss the first third of the season.
IF Perk can come back later in the season and resume his starting role, our second unit should be far superior to the one we had last season. Nate and Baby should be improved. O’Neal and Wallace would give us two solid big men. Daniels would replace Allen. Offensively that unit would be pretty formidable imo.
Of course all of my speculation hinges on Wallace returning and Perkins recovering with enough time in the season to actually contribute and both are pretty big question marks at this point in time.
by King Coebra on Jul 23, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Sheed has to comeback
If Sheed returns, they would have a tight front FOUR!!!!! Best in the league…. So now, only thing you need is a replacement for Tony Allen and Posey… You find a player of that caliber and the Celtics are in business. If they dont, they can kiss the Finals trip goodbye and the end of the Big 3 era…. Ainge won’t get that type of player being on cheap mode like he’s at the flea market!! So now, you let go of one of the best Free agents that would have been a good fit to the Lakers in Barnes….
Wrong
Ainge and the Celtics didn’t “let” Barnes go to L.A. It appears they were in the running but due to the salary cap could only offer a vet minimum contract. Barnes received a better offer from L.A. and a much better one from Cleveland. Ultimately the extra half million per year that the Lakers offered gave them the edge over Boston.
Agree 100%
Bring back Sheed and the C’s will have a deep and very talented big man front line of Perk, KG, Baby, J.O. and Sheed.
Thats a older but still very big, long and strong front line that still is very talented.
Rasheed was pretty clear about retiring.
So agian, if Sheed does not come back, and Perk takes his time coming back, where are the bigs?
Simple answer
They have already been signed by other teams for more than we can offer them or are currently unsigned. It would be great if the league allowed Boston and only Boston to go over the cap and spend whatever they wanted to. Just think we could have signed every available free agent and then traded whoever we wanted for whoever we wanted. I can’t believe the league doesn’t allow Boston to do that. It’s crazy man. Just crazy I tell you.
I guarantee he won't be the same.
I’m not being negative. I’m just looking at the results of past knee injuries and wondering why it would be any different for a 280 LB man.
The offseason is still young and there are still chances to improve the roster during the season. But if we go into battles with this roster, we won’t go far. Our starting five are rock solid, as good as anyone. But the bench is shaky once you get pass BBD.
Even if the Celtics will treat the regular season as a 82-game pre-season, we still need a better bench
by getthat18now on Jul 23, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree about the bench
Davis and Robinson should both improve significantly with another season to gel together. TA was hurt more often than not over the past several seasons and Daniels is significantly better than TA offensively. Additionally it appears that Finley is out and Bradley will hopefully take his roster spot. Sheed is the question mark. Will her return and if not, who will the C’s bring in to replace his roster spot?
by King Coebra on Jul 23, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
How far the team goes...
…may depend on what Danny can do with Rasheeds contract. IMO it needs to be a significant move to compete for the Championship.
Stoner returns. Good vibrations on the bebch
by jurrasicearl on Jul 23, 2010 12:19 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Josh Howard seems like a pretty cool guy..
http://www.joshhoward.com/?q=node/267
His closest friends Quisy.. He has family on the east coast.. He’s a free agent.. We had sheed’s contract still… Anybody thinkin what I’m thinking?!
by farias on Jul 23, 2010 12:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
What does Marquis do well?
Other than getting the ball in good position and drive to the hoop, what else does he do well? He’s not a great shooter, passer or ball handler. His defense is okay….not outstanding. I would have thought an unsigned summer leaguer who showed great potential could have filled his role just as well.
Danny now must find some bigs…. maybe someone from the summer league, a European player or trade BBD to get a big body. Nobody on the Celtic’s summer roster impressed me enough. Erden looked good at times. One previous poster said Kwame Brown is dreadful on offense and this offsets any other upside he may have.
Not impressive at all
No moves made you say, yes… that will help them beat Miami and the Lakers!! Barnes would have alleviated the TA loss.. Marquis and Nate?? When was the last time in NBA history a 5 9 dude helped a team to win the championship!! You would have been better off with Eddie House. Besides Doc doesnt even trust Nate, well I guess with a depleted lineup like this, you have to now huh. lol TMAC might be a desperation but he’s looking really good right about now….So now, who’s guarding the superstars of the other teams, Pierce and Allen again?? good lord…. Had they have a Posey type player who can shoot and defend multiple positions, Pierce might have scored more than 20 a game in the Finals easy!!! Just ask Kobe, he had Artest!!!!!!!!!! Now you wonder why the sorry *ss Lakers are catching up in the ring column!!!!
Matt Barnes....
is off the market, going to the Lakers. That’s a let down.
Anything Is Possible!
by BostonBrotherhood on Jul 23, 2010 1:54 AM EDT reply actions
Marquis Daniels
Ainge, Ainge, Ainge…wtf do you see in Marquis Daniels, the one guy you should have not let go was Posey. You sign MD and Nate back but you wouldn’t go after BArnes who signed for 3.7 2 years for the LAKERS??? Daniels has never been a good pick up, his best days were at Dallas and dont count his stay at the sorry **s Pacers.. Wow, that’s the difference, Lakers are getting stronger while Ainge is on cheap mode….. I’d say fire his @ss. No wonder Pierce is tripping out!!
I should say both are on cheap mode
I understand minimizing luxury tax and all. But consider this, 1 ring in 22 years for the most storied franchise in NBA history? Lakers paid the most luxury tax in the NBA last year? 2 rings in 3 years? lol Fork it out!!!
luxury tax?
Luxury tax is pretty much irrelevant here.
Repeat slowly: Boston could NOT offer Barnes any more money than LA could. LA could not offer Barnes any more money than Boston could. BOTH teams could only offer him exactly the same vet minimum salary as constrained by the CBA rules.
As far as ‘cheap’ goes – Daniels actually cost more than Barnes – again, because of the rules.
MLE
Lakers had some of their MLE remaining that they didn’t use on Blake which is why they were able to offer him a bit more to Barnes. Of course, it is entirely possible that if both could only offer vet minimum Barnes still may have opted for L.A.
Oh - crap - I didn't realize LA still had MLE room.
I assumed they used the minimum.
Sigh – that blows a small hole in my posts.
Though arguments that we are ‘cheap’ make no sense in light of the fact that signing our own FAs is more expensive than signing vet min contracts….
Everybody makes mistakes
Some more than others. Don’t sweat it. You’re definitely one of the most informed and readable posters on this site. Please keep up the good work!
This is silly.
Ainge was constrained by CBA rules as to what he could offer Barnes. If DA & Doc considered Barnes truly a better player than Daniels, then it is no-brainer that they HAD to have offered him the most they could offer – which would be the vet minimum of 1.7M. The exact same as LA could (and did) offer him.
Because that is LESS money than they HAD to pay Daniels (they are required to pay Daniels 120% of his last year’s contract then if you considered them even equal players, then it is a no-brainer that Danny had to make that offer.
BUT there is nothing that Ainge could do to force Barnes to want our 1.7M more than LAs 1.7M. So it is on Barnes, not DA, for not coming here. His choice.
The alternative scenario, which imho is just as valid – maybe DA and Doc DON’T consider Barnes at 1.7M a more valuable player to this team than Daniels at 2.4M.
Prior to his injuries last year – Daniels arguably a much better player than Barnes . If he’s healthy he could still be that guy. And Daniels is already integrated into the Celtics. That has a lot of value, given the team-oriented defense that they play.
At any rate I don’t get the Barnes love. He’s a decent player – but if signing him was the make or break for the season, then forgetaboutit – ’might as well pack it in.
The highest vet minimum for this upcoming season is $1,352,181
That is for a player with 10 or more years in the league. I don’t think Barnes has been the league that long.
I do not believe the 20% raise is a mandatory amount, it is just an upper limit. Not many would take less, so that usually is the amount given.
Just like the max contract amount. Usually, the player takes this, but not always.
by GetYourSoxOn on Jul 24, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah - per my post above i mistook in that I didn't realize LA still had MLE leftover to use
I thought they had used the vet min and so just assumed that was where their number came from.
My bad. Not that that changes much. Ulitmately it still comes down to that there was virtually nothing that Danny could possibly do to bring Barnes here.
Not an Ainge apologist, in fact, I hated him when he was a player...
But what did you expect him to do?
Within the confines of the salary cap, he could NOT offer Barnes more than LA did. Plus, Barnes is FROM LA and played at UCLA. So the Lakers offered him more money, a chance at a ring, and can bring him back to his hometown . Exactly HOW was Ainge supposed to compete against THAT?
by Stanford_Fan on Jul 23, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course you did. Ainge was one of those players you LOVE if he's on your team,
but you hate if he’s not. Similar in that way, actually, to Matt Barnes.
by Stanford_Fan on Jul 24, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Barnes and Posey
About Barnes: is necesary two parts to sign a contract, i think DA tried as hard as he could but Barnes took LA, why? well they can offer him the same that we can or better (in fact, they are the cham…. well, you know) but they can also offer him good weather and MUCH better partys :).
About Posey… well before regreting we left him go, just remember how awful he have been in NO from the begining.
I believe in The Switch
Posey
Posey was to the Celtics as Derek Fisher is to the Lakers as Bruce Bowen was to the Spurs…. You bring this players somewhere else, of course, they aren’t going to be as great… Posey hit some big shots for NO last year. NO sucks so his contributions are un-noticeable. If the LAKERS didnt have Fisher, they would not win 2 rings in the last 3 years, plain and simple, even KOBE knows this… 95% of the back breaking shots were made by Fisher. Remember his shot in front of jameer against Orlando? There’s a long laundry list… All I’m saying is there are players you dont let go… Posey was one of them…
I try to keep as up to date on the cap as possible....
but how is it that he Laker had $3.7 mil over two years when they are over the cap?
Isn’t the vet minimum less than $1.85 mil and isn’t for 1 year contracts only? Didn’t they use their MLE on Blake? Did they have left over $$$ from MLE to add to Barnes???? Can they do that?
I was under the impression we couldn’t have even given Barnes 2 for $3.7 without using Sheed?
Also Quisy at $2.5 for 1 year is a dream!!!! no cap implications, J Howards best friend, and no long term cap hits!
Mark my words… this will result in Sheed’s contract going for Howard and then another Veteran big will come on board to round out the front line.
Great signing.
Simple
Lakers are willing to pay luxury tax. They paid the most last year, something the Celtics aren’t to keen on doing as the rest of the NBA. 2 rings in 3 years, not bad right….bottomline, you want to win? dish out the dough….
You were understood just fine.
You were intimating the Celtics were cheap and not willing to pay the luxury tax.
With the exception of the fact that they were one of only six teams in the league to have been taxed each of the last three years and will be taxed again this year, you were right on.
They’re cheap!
Right on
I’m right on with the fact the the LAKERS were on top of that luxury tax list. I’ll let you guess who became champs this year since you’re great with facts… Spending more doesn’t always equate to rings, I’m simply implying, well, they made good use of the money they spent while the C’s have paid the ones they shouldn’t have and let go of the ones that helped them win a ring in the last 24 years?
but the luxury tax has nothing to do with how much the Lakers could pay Barnes.
BOTH teams could only offer him the vet minimum. And in both cases a 2nd year would be at a max 8% raise.
The only variance would be in how many years – but Danny made clear that a 2nd year would not have been a problem (only a 3rd or more).
So this choice (by Barnes) was NOT ABOUT MONEY. Either we made no offer to him at all (because we liked Daniels at 2.4M better) or he (Barnes) likes LA better for reasons that have nothing to do with money.
Who cares who was first in Tax spending? That means only one team a year is trying to win, whoever is first paying the luxury tax? I guess thats why the team who paid the most tax four straight years prior to last season, the NY Knicks, won all those titles?If the Celtics were the Suns, giving away assets just to try to get under the tax line, you’d have a point. Attacking a team thats paid the tax three straight years for being cheap is nutty.
Give me a break with all these players the Celtics let go. I cant believe one of the players you referenced they let go was Marbury. Ha. How’d he do last year? I mean besides all the crying on youtube. Other teams were so psyched Boston let him go that no one wanted him. Posey is universally believed to have one of the worst contracts in the league, so much so any Chris Paul rumor has Posey stapled to him as a penalty. Your two examples of guys they let go because they’re cheap, would be considered by just about anyone not named leonitus to be smart moves.
Posey has the worst contract? Are you kidding me? What have you been watching the D league? 2 rings, hit all the shots, took all the charges that your superstar wouldnt even dare take? Killed the Lakers in the Finals along with House, 18 points on one of the crucial Finals games when they won it? Universally? Well boo hoo, you can join that Posey doubters cuz you can’t form your own opinion on the man. Boston has never recovered after letting him go. Had he still been in the roster, Pierce wouldnt be chasing Wade, Lebron and maybe his **s would have some legs left to actually score in game 7. but i guess you wouldn’t know that because you were too busy using your NBA D league pass…Watch an actual game so maybe you’d have an idea who’s good and who’s not…
Didnt say THE worst, said one of the worst.
Feel free to read any of the Chris Paul rumors and check out how often that it also says the Hornets would want to stick Posey and/or Okafors contract into the trade to dump it on another team.
Sorry, Posey was awesome for the Celtics two years ago. Hes been miserable since then and NO couldnt give him away for free,
Apparently, you havent seen Posey play since the 2008 finals, and havent read anything about him since then. Try some research rather then attacking others, makes people respect your points more.
Actually I have seen Posey play for NO. He made a few game winners and was pretty good up until the last part of their lost season. He’s not a great piece for a losing team anyway and his skills aren’t meant to carry a sorry team rather to supplement a great one. He’s a difference maker. I just couldn’t get over that as a fan…
Maybe I overreacted with some smart *ss remarks… But I realize, people have their own opinions and you’d have to respect that in these forums… I did not mean to offend!
Posey
We offered him the same deal that NO did except they included a 4th year whereas Boston and every other team in the running to get him only offered him 3 years. Perhaps it wouldn’t have been that bad of an idea to match NO’s offer. He would definitely have come in handy in 2008 when the team was decimated by injuries and the bench was depleted. His D, ability to spread the floor and championship mettle may have helped the C’s over the hump a month or so ago and he would still be on the books for only two more years when most of the other contracts expire.
by King Coebra on Jul 23, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Dish out the dough for who?
The only person we didn’t dish out the dough to was Tony Allen. He wanted a three year deal and the Celtics were only willing to give him two. Who else have we lost out on because we did not offer them enough money?
Boston was over the salary cap before free agency began. Therefore, the only options they had were to use their Bird rights and non-Bird rights to resign their own players which they have used to retain Pierce, Allen, Robinson and Daniels. They also had a MLE available which they used to sing O’Neal.
Had they done none of the above they would still have been over the cap and all five of those players would have to have been replaced by vet minimum players. You are not going to find better vet minimum players than those five guys.
FYI – the Celtics are currently on the hook for approx $80M which is $22M over the cap.
It’s called Salary Cap 101. You really need to try to understand it before making ridiculous assertions.
Huh
Isn’t that the same story with Posey? He wanted 4 years, Celtics aren’t willing to give him the extra year? Stephon? Don’t tell me, you’d rather have a 5 9 guard over a 6 2 All star guard… And now TA? I can live with the loss of TA coz the dude can’t shoot anyway. So signing Robinson for 9 mil and Daniels 2.5 are great use of that money. Now, that’s a ridiculous assertion!! hmmmm against whose bench, the Grizzlies? Magic’s, Lakers, Heat’s bench will eat them alive… Yeah, keep believing….
Who then
Of all the players that have been signed this offseason who do you think we should have signed?
Livingston might have been a good pickup, 6 7 guard, though coming from a horrid knee injury. Chris Duhon, Randy Foye, Barnes, Jarvis Hayes is out there…Don’t know for what cost Josh Howard would play more…TMAC is looking good right now in desperation, maybe ridiculous but possibly worth the shot if he’s willing to go for the minimum.. Tony Allen instead of Marquis… Larry Hughes will play for the minimum but is not good for the locker, but that’s not an issue with the C’s. Maybe House….Please do not sign IME UDOKA!!!
OK
Most of the players you have listed have still not been signed. It is still entirely within the realm of possibility that IF any of those players are willing to sign vet minimum contracts AND the organization feels they are a good fit that they could still be signed.
As for those that have already been signed:
Matt Barnes signed with the Lakers for $1.7M. They were able to offer him more than the vet minimum because they still had a part of their MLE left that they did not use when they signed Blake. The C’s could only offer a little more than $1M. Barnes decided on the Lakers because they were able to pay him more and probably have an easier road to return to the Finals.
Tony Allen signed a 3 year deal with Memphis for $9.7M. From all reports Boston offered him a 2 year deal. Could the Celtics have offered him another year? Absolutely. They clearly do not want to sign anyone for more than 2 years as they only have Rondo and Pierce on the books past then. It appears they have a plan in place to retool the roster in 2 years when they should have nearly $30M in cap space. TA, when healthy, was a very good defender, but his offensive liabilities are well documented. At first I also wanted TA resigned, but the more I think about it, his offensive liabilities, his penchant for injury and his unwillingness to sign for 2 meant he is no longer a C. The Celtics made an offer. TA chose to sign elsewhere.
Duhon signed a 4 year $15M deal. Celtics could have offered him a vet min contract. They had no chance at signing him.
Bottom line is Duhon and Barnes signed more lucrative deals elsewhere and the C’s could only offer vet minimum to them. Tony Allen was the only one they COULD have resigned but instead decided his lack of O, injury history and unwillingness to agree to a 2 year deal made him expendable also.
..
So you’re saying Duhon wasn’t a possibility before we signed Nate Robinson? Wasnt Nate paid 2 years at 4.5m/yr? Is this gonna go back to what you’re saying as they do not want to sign a player for more than 2 years, therefore, Duhon of course will opt for a longer contract?
Don’t you think that the 9 million paid to Nate is best served into paying Barnes? If I’m not mistaken, they are both unrestricted free agents arent they. People love to talk about the Laker’s length which obviously dominated them this year, so why not get players in the point and wing to address that situation.. I’m not a fan of TA until he did good this year in the playoffs but then again I realized, it was his walk year…
Non-bird rights
The Celtics were able to resign Robinson because he was a member of their team last year and under the CBA teams are allowed to go over the salary cap to resign their own players. We had Robinson’s non-Bird rights and therefore were able to pay him up to 120% of last year’s contract. We had no such rights with Duhon and could only offer him the vet minimum.
I did a fanpost on the reality of the salary cap situation. If you haven’t looked at it you might want to check it out.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2010/7/16/1574080/reality-and-the-salary-cap
I was kind of in the same boat as you post finals and didn’t understand why we couldn’t use the $19M coming off the books with Ray’s contract and use that to lure Wade.
Good stuff. Salary cap is the one thing I haven’t delved myself into as a true hoops fan. I’ll check it out and learn something!! thx
Not a problem
I appreciate you taking some time to gain a better understanding of the situation instead of getting offended. I’m really just trying to help.
If...
Yeah Yeah, if If’s and buts were cocks and nuts you’d be having gay sex right now! But seriously if signing Quisy brings J. Howard with Sheed’s deal, then SIGN Shaq!
I know Shaq says he wants more than MLE but with Nate, Avery, J Howard, Quisy, BBD, Perk plus all the other unproven/rookies coming off the bench, Shaq would be a fool not to sign with the C’s.
He’d get 20-25 min/night all season until March when Perk comes back then he’d still get 15 min/night and in the playoff’s he’s a great bench addition with 6 fouls to give on Howard & Bynum/Gasol/Odom and he can punish a team for not playing him straight up.
Everyone talks about the cascade or domino effect. If Quisy = J Howard then Shaq at Vet min. That’s quite a domino performance by DA!
I have to think if Shaq could take a ring from Kobe for his mantle… He’d pay the Celtics to play!
Then again I’d be a better tree surgeon than brain surgeon! :-)
Some thoughts
1. Nate could have a big year, like 6th man of year type numbers. It wouldn’t surprise me and it would really make the bench look much better than it does now. But the bench still seems far from complete.
2. Marquis has averaged 25 missed games a year due to injury over his career (and it’s not like he missed a whole season one year that threw off the average – in 08 he played 74 games, but then the second most games he’s played in over a season is a whopping 62). Who’s the backup wing for the 1/4 of the season he’s likely to be hurt?
3. Josh Howard is a free agent. Washington will NOT sign and trade him for Sheed’s contract. Unless Sheed agrees to retire sans buyout (according to most of the media very unlikely) and the cash can go to the team instead of him, or some other amazing incentive is included, they have no reason to.
4. At the same time, Barnes’ situation is revealing that the vast amounts of cap space around the league may have dried up. Particularly with desirable teams. So guys like Barnes, Howard, Shaq may have to accept far less than they appeared to be worth a couple of weeks ago.
2. Marquis
So that essentially makes him a perfect replacement for TA who also has an annual history of numerous injuries and missed playing time. Would you rather have an injury prone player locked up for three years or one lokced up for only one? Evidently the C’s have chosen the latter.
Also, Daniels, while not great offensively, is better than TA. Then again, who in this league isn’t? He has also been signed to a reasonable and very tradeable contract
Right
but last year they had two backup wings who were good for 50-60 games each, now they only have one. Whether it’s Jarvis Hayes or Larry Hughes or whoever, the minimum salary wing they sign to round out the bench will be very important.
Washington would S&T Howard...
For Sheed to get cap space if they know he’s going to retire. The Celtics can send $3 million Cash in the deal to cover the buyout and it isn’t a cap hit.
I like this signing because last year Quisy showed he is capable of playing well when healthy.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
color me bored
It’s really a let down when you sign someone who really shouldn’t even get on the court for your team.
Daniels is only really useful if Ray Allen or Paul Pierce misses serious time. He’s an insurance policy with a small modicum of upside. But he’s not the physical droid they’re looking for.
dislike it
had hope that we sign another – one that can dunk the ball like a normal 6’6 guy…
Quisy is as lucky guy who gets another chance – Danny becomes softer…. L.A. gets Barnes!! WTF
Not really happy with the Quisy resigning.
Id rather have seen another wing player signed.
Quisy really did not show us much last year
Maybe it was due to the injury, but still it would of been better if we could of gotten someone like Barnes etc.
Doc thought Quisy was not good enough to get off the bench last year and now they want him to be the back up wing player off the bench???
It seems like a desperate signing and reaction to losing TA …who should of been the player the C’s should of signed to be our back up wing player.
please read the whole thread...
We could not have gotten Barnes!
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