Should Rondo Be Playing for Team USA?
by Greg Payne on Aug 17, 2010 11:19 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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Rajon Rondo's involvement with Team USA has become something of a hot topic of late, mainly due to him being one of the main sources of news at this point in the offseason. However, whether or not Rondo's participation in the World Championship is the best course of action for him this summer has become a steady debate. So, I figure it's time we hash this thing out. In my eyes, there are three key points on each side of the argument. Let's start with the PRO side first.
PROS
Pride for His Country - As an athlete, it's certainly an honor to represent your country against international competition. While reaching the pinnacle of winning in your respective professional league is marvelous in itself, there's also something to be said for playing in and winning a tournament like the World Championship or the Olympic Games. In this country, when one of the four major sports crowns a winner, we immediately dub them as "World Champions". Well, I hate to break it to everyone, but winning a league that features teams only in the United States and maybe Canada does not warrant such a title. But winning an international tournament that features a steady array of countries around the world does. Unlike the NBA, these tournaments don't highlight city vs. city. They put country against country, and that holds a certain, undeniable weight.
Playing Against Better Competition - While Rondo might not be going head-to-head with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James right now, he's still going up against some terrific talent in the likes of Derrick Rose, Chauncey Billups, and Kevin Durant. Playing against such stellar competition should only help Rondo improve as an overall player, which should serve dividends as he continues to emerge as a member of the NBA's elite class, as well as one of the Celtics' most important players (if not the most important player). Rondo's a confident player, and playing against competition that demands he be at his best should help him keep his competitive edge.
Personal Branding and Exposure - Rondo continuing to play at a time when the NBA is out of season keeps his name in the headlines and his face in the photos. This is a great opportunity for Rondo to continue to market himself, his name, and his game on an international level, and it appears to be coming at an ideal time, as he's coming off of a season in which he made his first All-Star team as well as the All-Defense First Team. He's beginning to garner the attention that remains exclusive to the stars, and that could lead to things like endorsements and shoe deals. He also gets cool caricatures of himself these days, too.
CONS
Injury - This is perhaps the most nerve-wracking aspect of this whole ordeal. If Rondo suffers any type of severe injury, it will be absolutely devastating, and will give the critics plenty of fuel. Are injuries a part of professional sports? Absolutely. Could Rondo injure himself playing for Team USA just as easily as he could during any other type of offseason workout? You bet. However, if Rondo were to injure himself during this tournament, there would probably be something of an uproar that it occurred in service to Team USA, and not the Celtics, the team he's contractually obligated to.
Lack of Rest - Rondo's coming off of a year in which he played a career-high 2,963 minutes in the regular season and nearly an additional 1,000 minutes in the postseason, and these facts breed an argument for Rondo to rest and recover for next season, which might end up being even more grueling than the previous one. However, head coach Mike Krzyzewski has stated that Rondo will play only 15-20 minutes per game, which shouldn't be enough to derail him in any way for the 2010-2011 NBA campaign. If we were discussing a player in his mid to upper thirties, then our concerns over overexertion might be warranted. But, as a 24-year old whose not even in the prime of his career just yet, these minute patterns shouldn't be too demanding. On top of that, the tournament concludes September 12, meaning, if Team USA even makes it that far, Rondo will still have over a month of rest before training camp gets under way.
Less Time to Work on Free Throws - Rondo's deficiencies as a free throw shooter appear to take precedent over his weaknesses as a jump shooter, according to head coach Doc Rivers:
Rivers said he'd like to see Rondo improve on his free-throw shooting this offseason, nothing that's a bigger priority over even his outside shot because being a more consistent free-throw shooter will prevent Rondo from being discouraged in driving to the basket.
Hard to argue with Doc on this one. Statistically, at just 62.1 percent, Rondo was the worst free throw shooting guard in the league last season (he was almost as bad as Dwight Howard), making it increasingly difficult to overlook this hole in Rondo's game. The thinking here appears to be the more time Rondo spends with Team USA, the less time he can spend in the gym working at the free throw line. I'm sure he's shooting free throws at the beginning and end of Team USA practices, as well as during his down time, but the critics will surely harp on the time Rondo will spend traveling, in player meetings, and playing in the tournament games as time he could be spending working on his foul shooting.
So, what do you think? Should Rondo be playing for Team USA, or should he be back in Boston or Kentucky right now, working on his game so that he can be better for the Celtics next season?
Quick Note: I will remind everyone to be respectful in the comments section. A topic like this could elicit strong opinions, and we here at CelticsBlog continue to ask that readers be respectful of one another. We really enjoy the discussion here, but we prefer to leave any hostility out of it. For full posting rules, check out this piece from Roy Hobbs.
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No
Meaningless waste of time and injury risk.
No
Rondo is the closest thing we have to a franchise player… He needs to be working on the deficiencies in his game, avoiding injury, and not putting unnecessary miles onto his legs in the off-season. Just my opinion.
by irish_celtic_fan on Aug 17, 2010 10:20 AM EDT reply actions
To the the best, you must play with the best.
Players only get better when they compete with and against the best competition there is. Rondo can gain a lot playing with a guy like Billups, and the competition here will be far better then anything he’d work on over the summer.
Gaining, or sustaining that competitive edge, and bringing it back with him to impose on other guys in the locker room is a wonderful thing.
Anyone who honestly thinks sitting at a free throw line and shooting 2000 shots a day is good for his game clearly doesn’t understand basketball. There is such a thing as over practice. He’ll get his work in, he’ll see Mark Price again when training camp starts, and he will be better this year.
Injuries happen anywhere, there’s no greater risk. He’ll have plenty of time to rest when it’s all over, and he’s young and will recover quickly. This is a great thing for Rondo as a player, and as an upcoming star in this league, anyone who doubts that is just being a selfish fan.
quit being so accusatory ...I am getting sick of your comments like "selfish fan" "doesn't understand basketball"
and the statement “Injuries happen anwhere, there’s no greater risk” is really not accurate. Do you not htink injuries happen at a higher rate in a competitive game than in a scrimmage in a practice gym?
You are starting to annoy me with your condescending attitude…..just stop it
Is it Soup Yet?
I would like proof
Statistical evidence, perse, that it’s true that an “officially sanctioned” game causes more risk to injury than a scrimmage in a practice gym. I mean, a scrimmage anywhere can be competitive, and thus anyone can play rough in a scrimmage!
I would like proof (staitistical) to prove your implications that there is no difference in risk
Neither one of us can supply that data because it likely does NOT exist…..but if Vegas were taking odds because they were going to track this on who gets hurt more – those who play in competitive games vs. those who play scrimmage in their own professional work-out facility I know which way I am betting …..
Is it Soup Yet?
Daniels last year.
Injured his finger in practice. Injuries can happen anywhere athletes compete, be it practice facilities or game situations. But you’re right, neither side can probably prove that with any data, but I’m not going to chastise or call Rondo selfish (as some have, not specifically you) because there’s maybe, a slightly higher risk if injury… that can’t really be proven even exists.
how bout you answer my question then po?
since I don’t think there have been any statiscal studies done on this…
who can you name me that since FIBA started allowing NBA players play in international competitions in 1992 has had a career-damaing injury occur during Team USA play? It’s been 18 years and I can’t think of one.
Can you even name a player who has had an injury which has seriously impacted the following NBA season? (this i tend to think there has to be someone… I’m just blanking)
we can all name players hurt in offseason workouts on the other hand.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
I think Rondo does us proud to be playing this year for Team USA, but...
Gasol missed the first 23 games of the 2006-07 NBA season due to a broken foot suffered near the end of Spain’s semifinal win over Argentina in the 2006 FIBA World Championship.
That one immediately came to mind and was actually easy to find. It means nothing, IMO.
by GetYourSoxOn on Aug 17, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks!
I knew there had to be an example of this.
anymore (or lack thereof) examples will certainly help build the case! keep em coming!
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Ya, it could happen.
But I’m still not convinced there’s any greater risk. If we do research on how many players missed the starts of season due to injuries in off season workouts or training camps, I’m sure there’s a lot more of them than happened during FIBA WC competition.
But good point though, thanks for finding that.
That's probably because
There are about 380 players doing offseaon workouts , and 12 players on team USA playing in the championship. That’s about 97 percent of the league doing offseason and about 3 percent on team USA roster. There’s a lot more chance that one of the people doing offseaon workouts will get injured. So there may be more that get injured in the workouts, but there still is a greater Chance of getting injured on team USA
by mm mm toasty on Aug 17, 2010 5:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
brilliant response...right up to the last comma
then you kind of end with a conclusion that doesn’t follow the premise. You shouldn’t have added the word “greater” to the last sentence.
as in: “…but there is still a chance of getting injured on Team USA.”
Greater chance? Based on what? There hasn’t been any facts presented here to support this claim. If it is your opinion, fine, I can live with that.
Athletes can get injured in many ways, not just on the court or on the field:
I was looking for Bob Stanley because I remembered he cut himself in an odd way and came up with a few more:
In 1988, Red Sox reliever Bob Stanley fell down the stairs while taking out the trash and landed on a glass bottle, injuring nerves and tendons in his pitching hand in the process. He had to undergo four hours of surgery.
In 1990, Toronto Blue Jays’ sleep-walking outfielder Glenallen Hill landed on the DL with cuts that resulted from smashing a glass table while trying to flee the spiders chasing him in his dream.
In 1992, Atlanta Braves great Tom Glavine broke a rib while vomiting airplane food.
by GetYourSoxOn on Aug 17, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Pitcher Greg Harris suffered a strained elbow flipping sunflower seeds while sitting in the bullpen.
Greg Harris? Wasn’t he the last switch pitcher?
Could pitch both Right and Left Handed?
I’m assuming.
Yep, he played for the Red Sox, but...
…G.M. Dan Duquette would never allow him to switch pitch. I believe he didn’t want him to make a mockery of the game. But he did get a chance in Montreal.
Ya it was kinda tough to explain it all in words. I didn’t really know how to end it all well.
by mm mm toasty on Aug 17, 2010 10:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It is funny what adding one word to a sentence can do.
Thanks for the numbers. They give perspective.
by GetYourSoxOn on Aug 17, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
% of players is the key.
I worded that wrong, my point was the % of players injured in camps/preseason is probably greater than in FIBA WC competition, or at least about the same risk.
So yes, there are 380ish players doing off season workouts/preseason/training camps to the base number of players hurt will be higher. But if let’s say 23 of 380 players suffer some kind of injury during the season, that’s a shade over 16%, now if 2 of the 18 players invited to the FIBA WC team (taking into account players pre-cuts) suffer some kind of injury, that’s only 9% of the players.
Either way, I’m willing the bet the numbers would be pretty comparable, so my point is I’d be fairly confident the % of players hurt during FIBA WCs is no greater than the % during off season training.
Not to nitpick
Because I am inclined to agree with your overall point without seeing any evidence to the contrary. However, in the supposed example you provided above 23 out of 380 is 6% and 2 of 18 is 11%. Utilizing those numbers and presenting wholly inaccurate percentages based on them does not help your argument in the least.
by King Coebra on Aug 18, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok...
So what about Rondo? What about Rondo’s ability to market himself, what about his career, what about the exposure and the wonderful things this experience will do for his brand and his career? What about the fact that he’s signed to an incredibly team friendly deal that he is highly undervalued in, and could probably be making easily 8mil more if he went into FA this past year? We don’t let him go off and do things to find ways for him to get exposure and make money in endorsement by playing for his country and getting league wide exposure because we’re afraid he’ll bruise a shin?
How is that not being a “selfish fan”? Call me condescending if you want, but at least refute my point, I call it selfish to ask him to forgo this opportunity, and I backed up my point. Go ahead and prove me wrong.
He's under contract with the Boston Celtics. Not USA playground basketball. That refutes the point, Sizzlack.
Playing for his country…..LOL LOL LOL Are you kidding??
by Finkelskyhook on Aug 17, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for proving my point.
The entire world doesn’t revolve around the Celtics. And you just proved my point perfectly.
Proving what point? You haven't made one.
The selfish fan pays his freaking salary, Sizzlack.
by Finkelskyhook on Aug 17, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That you only talked about the Celtics and demeaned USA Basketball.
Really? So you personally account for 9 million in revenue for the Celtics every year? Wow, that’s some crazy spending.
My point was, fans saying he should forgo the marketing opportunities and branding opportunities playing for the team will bring him (see: the painting of him, as well as his recent Nike commercial) is selfish, since he’s on a very team friendly deal and could be making far more if he went into FA this year.
Revenues directly from Fans make up only a portion of a Basketball teams books, now don’t get me wrong, it certainly makes fans entitled to a little loyalty, and they are a huge part of what makes players what they are, and teams what they are. But that’s a two way street, and we owe a little to them as well. So for a guy like Rondo, who’s been nothing but the team player, done the work, the leader of the team and great with the media and fans, who’s on a very team friendly deal and never causes problems in the locker room, then yes, we owe him a chance to take this opportunity for himself and his career.
There are other arguments to him not playing, and I’ve discussed them in other comments threads. But if you’re only argument is because he’s under contract with the Celtics not USA Basketball, or because you “pay his freaking salary” which is, at best, one hell of an exaggeration (Ads sales make up a far greater % of team revenues than fan ticket and merchandising) then yes, I call you selfish.
Umm...
Who do you think those “Ads” are targeting?! Little old ladies in venezuela?! That ad revenue is paid in order to get their message in front of us as well. So that we Celtics fans buy their product.
Fact is, the selfish decsion in your argument is Rondo doing this so that he can make more money in marketing. In that argument he is the only person that benefits. Not the fans, not the Boston Celtics, just Rondo. I don’t know that I am 100% opposed to him being able to play, but your argument is pretty flawed.
I think that if the guy was an 80% free throw shooter and a better jump shooter with a truly complete game then no one would be too upset. If you don’t think shooting 500-1000 extra free throws every day and 500+ jumpers every day through the offseason isn’t going to make the guy better at both then I am afraid it is YOU who doesn’t understand basketball.
yes except
that is one of the many reason rondo might want to play for team USA.
for one of us (a celtic fan) to not want him to play is ALL about me me me (the celtics).
also people still seem to think that traveling and practicing with team USA somehow precludes Rondo from getting extra work in on his jump shot or free throws. it’s not as though Team USA is practicing 9-5 guys. pretty sure lots of the guys on this team have things they want to improve on given the youth of this team.
maybe they stay after practice and shoot free throws? hard to picture I know…
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Sooo...
Being all about the team is being selfish then?! It’s about the Boston Celtics. His teammates. The group that is paying his salary. The fans… Somehow I don’t see how Rondo doing something that only benefits Rondo is not selfish, but doing something that benefits everyone else is…
have you heard anyone from the celtics say he shouldn't play?
no, in fact danny and doc both support it.
so this all comes back to the fans, i.e. you and others who don’t want rondo to participate for reasons related to "it could adversely effect the celtics 2010-2011 season, no matter how ill conceived this views may be.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
It benefits an entire country. Plus, he has a chance to brand himself, which will benefit the Celtics due to his increased popularity worldwide, thus bringing in more revenue for the Celtics. The fact that he will learn and improve his game while playing for Team USA also benefits the Celtics. That’s an incorrect argument that his playing on Team USA doesn’t benefit the Celtics.
Whether it benefits the fans or not, that is up for debate. However, the good that comes out of this for Team USA, Rondo himself, and the Celtics outweighs the risks he is taking. Personally, I feel that as a fan, I benefit from watching Rondo develop his game and turn into a floor general on a loaded team.
Ok...
So go shoot 1000 extra free throws a game, and 500+ jumpers, then I want to see you step foot on the court in the NBA Finals and knock down free throws. Go ahead, you’ll probably crap your pants. Repetitions aren’t the only thing you need, you’d know that if you read what I wrote, cause I’ve already been over this too many times.
It’s mental, not practice. He’s gotten the coaching, he knows he has to keep his elbow in and follow through on his release, he knows the drill. The rest of the mental aspect, and all the reps in the world isn’t going to change that. If anything, putting that practice to use in high stress game situations this summer is only going to help him.
You're wrong.
It is mental AND practice. Do you know how many free-throws Ray and Legend shot in practice?…Answer: A lot more then Rondo.
Never said it wasn't.
In fact I made that exact same point in other comments here. Completely agree, you need both.
Do you know how many free-throws Ray and Legend shot in practice?
And you know this how?
by GetYourSoxOn on Aug 18, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
There's a secret camera.
I’m convinced of it, cause all these people have such great inside information about Rondo’s practice habits. Obviously they must be watching the practice since they are so completely sure that Rondo just simply isn’t trying and isn’t practicing.
Yes but...
I said “TEAM REVENUES” obviously those ads target fans, but the products fans buy that are being advertised don’t benefit the team, they benefit the company advertising them. This isn’t a difficult concept. So my point is, TEAM REVENUES are a far greater % of ad sales then what the Celtics make of their own ticket sales, and merchandising (i.e. the % of profits the team gets off anything that bears the Celtics logo.)
If Rondo had a max contract, had endorsement up to his ears, and already had a Lebron james like brand (pre-image destroying stupidity) then maybe you’d have an argument. But he doesn’t, so this is a great opportunity for him, and he deserves it. I don’t call that selfish at all. Now if there was serious evidence that there is extreme risk in playing for Team USA, or anything to back up a claim that he’s risking the Celtics season just to cash in, then ok, maybe I’d agree with you. But there’s no evidence to support that claim.
See here
and this is the thing with context. I could very well take you saying “USA playground basketball” as meaning any random street game around wherever Rondo is staying in the offseason. You obviously mean the FIBA World Championship, but you demeaning it like that makes me think you think it means nothing, when the FIBA World Championships IS more than that. Much more. Enough for Rondo to go? Well, that’s why this article was made, for us to discuss that. But calling this “playground basketball” is laughable.
He's under contract with the Boston Celtics - exactly.
And the Boston Celtics completely sanction and support his participation with Team USA.
End of story.
by mmmmm on Aug 17, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sizzlelack - I don't have to prove you wrong but you should stop with your attitiude ....trust me on this
Is it Soup Yet?
I get called out and called condescending...
But I have an attitude? What because I make a claim and back it up? Seriously I didn’t drop anyones names, I just said why I felt people were being selfish fans, and I backed up my claim.
Then you come in and drop my name, call me out, and basically call me an arrogant jerk (ya you didn’t use the wording but the context was pretty clear) and it’s my attitude that’s the problem? Ugh…
you "think" you back it up doesn't make it so
I have seen some excellent arguments in here supporting Ronod playing for the USA team and some almost changed my mind but your points are laced with an arrogance of I am right and you are wrong – whihc is precisely what Greg Payne asked you not to do in your posts for this piece.
If I wanted to call you an arrogant jerk I would have PM’d you and I didn’t so don’t put words in my mouth…..even your response sounds like you need to try the decaf or get to bed earlier
Is it Soup Yet?
Then please take it to PM
Cause once again you just insulted me with that last sentence, and I’ve never once said anything directly against your character. How can someone debate if their convinced their wrong? I’ll always believe I’m right until someone proves me wrong, why make an argument if you don’t it’s the right one? If that makes me arrogant as you say, so be it. When I’m proven wrong I’ll concede my point, but until then I’ll stick behind it because it’s what I believe, which is all I’ve done.
Po - you seem a little bit off here
I honestly don’t see the arrogance or ‘attitude’ that you are claiming is in Sizzlack’s postings. He’s not using insulting language or name calling.
I do see you being somewhat dictatorial here in how people should post.
Are people not allowed to post supportive arguments for their position?
And when someone starts a sentence with “If I wanted to call you an arrogant jerk ….” the rest of the line doesn’t matter. That’s what you just did.
point well taken
I even asked for clarity from others I trust on here whether I was out of line…I wait to see what they say
Appreciate the constructive feedback
Is it Soup Yet?
I tried to make sure it was, indeed, constructive.
We are all on the same side here, ultimately.
We all want Rondo to stay healthy and get better at his game and for that to translate into Celtics wins!
As a regular reader...
I was surprised by your response to Sizzlack, and had to go back and read his post to even find the quotes. It just seemed like a dispropotionate response.
Honestly, my 1st thought was wondering if you were having a bad day (non-CelticsBlog related).
by nba is the worst on Aug 18, 2010 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have judged him harshly....and I am man enough to admit it
you notice I said nothing further because I wanted to error on the side of me being wrong….
however..sometimes time reveals something we miss initially ……we’ll see…I hope sizzlelack is a long term positive contributor to this site…in the meantime….I will chalk it up to a snap judgement on my part……I am almost perfect but no quite…LOL
Is it Soup Yet?
injuries can happen doing just about anything, they are freak things for the most part, and I seriously doubt you have any statistical evidence that would prove players are more prone to get hurt playing for Team USA then doing any number of other offseason activities.
Rondo would be playing competitive basketball whether that be with Team USA or at a training facility somewhere. The fact that rondo is surrounded by a staff that has been instructed to coddle these players, make sure they get the proper rest, treatment etc. I would think is better than him working out in Las Vegas or wherever it may be that players congregate for off-season games.
can you name one NBA player who had a career damaging injury playing for team USA? I certainly can’t, I’m struggling at the moment to think of a player who had an injury which seriously effected the following season (this is probably near-sighted, there has to be someone).
We all can name a bunch of guys that got hurt working out in the off-season.
also your point of his first obligation being to the boston celtics could certainly be argued. in many circles there is no higher responsibility or calling then representing your country.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Gag me
Playing playground basketball with USA on your jersey is a high responsibility??
Wow.
by Finkelskyhook on Aug 17, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
ask chauncey billups...
a former finals MVP if this means anything to him. who are you to say it doesn’t matter to these guys?
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
also...
we haven’t won the FIBA world championships since 1994.
if you’re a basketball player from the United States, and you believe that your country is the best in the world, don’t you think it would mean something to you to prove that? might you feel an obligation to prove that?
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks for your insight in this conversation
you’ve been a great addition! I’ve learned so much through your well thought out arguments!
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
really?
i feel posts such as those made deserve no other response, what good is posting nonsensical options with no context for why you hold them?.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because it means nothing to you.
Doesn’t mean everyone else would agree. And please once provide some argument other than just trolling, it’d amaze me.
I've been trolling on this site since it's inception with my obvious lack of basketball knowledge.
-It’s hard to argue with obvious wisdom that says practice is meaningless.
-It’s hard to argue with wisdom such as: “To the the best, you must play with the best.” The Ric Flair argument doesn’t really apply much to a bunch of watered down national teams with a few NBA players scattered on each one. The only thing that makes these games competitive is the rules they’re being played under.
-And frankly, calling USA basketball a “high responsibility” offends me. It’s about as high a responsibility as somebody putting one of those silly ribbons on the back of their cars to show they “care”.
So Willy and Sizzlack….Look in the trolling mirrors yourselves.
by Finkelskyhook on Aug 17, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not going to lie, I laughed at the Ric Flair line.
It’s pretty classic, more because his image pops into my head whenever I hear the name, and that’s just downright good comedy.
“Practice is meaningless” Is something I never said, please don’t take my arguments out of context. I actually said it’s not the only thing, and that you need both to put in the reps (practice) and put that muscle memory acquired into high stress, game situations in order to gain and maintain the mental edge necessary to succeed. I certainly don’t subscribe to the Allen Iverson philosophy on practice.
For as USA basketball goes, well, that’s your opinion. It’s on your probably in the minority on, many people take playing for their country very seriously, and take a lot of pride in wearing their countries colors and competing against the world. I’m sorry you don’t agree, but don’t attack Rondo’s character because he happens to feel that way.
never called you a troll bud
what is it about the rules that don’t favor American players? If we have the best basketball players in the world we should be able to win the FIBA world championship once in the past 18 years.
and I’ll ask you again, why does a former finals MVP make a point of playing for team USA?
it clearly means something to the guys playing, to address it as such sham that it “offends you”? really? it offends you? I honestly don’t know how to even respond to that.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
From one of those selfish fans.....Who don't understand basketball....LOL
What irish_celtic_fan said. Obviously another selfish fan. Who doesn’t understand basketball.
Sizzlack, you obviously missed game 7 last season so in spite of being one of those selfish fans who have no understanding of the game…..Let me fill you in. We got outlasted / outlegged in the second half. I know that analysis isn’t nearly as deep as you’re accustomed to because I don’t have any understanding of basketball….But it doesn’t take Naismith to figure out what happened. So we take our best player…Our foundation and the only set of young legs in our starting lineup and run them to death…..In a meaningless scrimmage….So he can learn from Chauncey Billups? My mistake….Got it.
There are, strangely, several precedents, Sizzlack, where practicing something actually makes somebody better at it. Even happens sometimes in basketball.
……And why did I know that we’d get the pride/patriotism argument in here. Please spare me. Want to see national pride? Look at our people in uniform keeping us free. Not a bunch of guys with USA on their jersey playing playground basketball.
by Finkelskyhook on Aug 17, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll agree on your patriotism point.
It’s a nice sentiment, but it’s just basketball after all.
Far as the rest, can’t disagree more. I said anyone who thinks putting up 2000 free throws is going to help his game doesn’t understand basketball, a point I will vehemently stick to. If you’ve played the game, coached the game, done more than watch it on TV you’d know that over repetition can be just as bad to a player as under repetition, you need a fine balance between getting the reps in to create the muscle memory, and putting them in competitive situations to develop the mental edge to use that practice. You need both, so with Rondo, he’ll get his shots in practice, he’ll come back in training camp and work with Price, and he’ll benefit from playing with the great talent around him, and sustaining his mental edge through the off season. If you really think his game would be better served in a gym by himself in Kentucky all summer shooting 10,000 free throws a week, then I reiterate, you don’t understand the game. Feel free to provide an argument that proves me wrong.
Far as Game 7 goes, that has nothing to do with off-season conditioning, he didn’t play in the championships last summer, and didn’t have the gas at the end of that game. It has far more to do with in that one game, Doc leaning on starters way to heavily and not trusting his bench, an aspect he openly admitted after the game. No amount of rest this summer is going to change the fact that if he has to put up 40 minutes in a game, he’s going to be tired in the 4th quarter.
Hmmm
Well, to be fair, we probably lost in the fourth quarter because thats what that Celtics team did all season-drop the fourth quarter. Phil Jackson even said it himself. Another reason we lost that game was the Laker’s finally realized that our biggest guy was Sheed, and then Baby. The whole game started slipping away when Pau Gasol hit the layup early in the 4th and then made the and one.
In fact, it was RONDO who got us within three (i think) with about a minute to go when he made a corner three right in front of the lakers bench. Ron Artest then nailed a three from the top of the key, deflated the celtics, and we all know what happened after.
I wouldn’t be too concerned with too many minutes, if you followed the celtics this past season you’ll remember that Doc severely limited the starters minutes in the regular season, to the point where most critics thought it would take us 7 games to beat the HEAT and then get swept by the Cavs. Rondo played 36.6 mins in the regular season, compared to 34 from Pierce, 30 from KG, and 35.2 from R-A.
If anything, Rondo has about 82 fairly “meaningless games” coming up this year. Everyone knows that the Celtics will make the playoffs, and as you can tell from last year, home court advantage doesnt mean much to them.
that game 7 part
is a pretty silly example… rondo is practicing regularly and playing 20 mpg for Team USA, this does not effect how many minutes doc rivers plays his starters in game 7.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Somewhat disagree about the patriotism
Clearly it’s not the same as military service, but many olympic/national team athletes do feel a strong sense of pride in representing their countries. You can’t just dismiss it as a possible reason for players being on the team.
2 points
1) Game 7
We didn’t lose in game 7 because Rondo was tired.
We lost because PERK WAS SITTING ON THE BENCH IN STREET CLOTHES.
2) Minutes played.
Rondo isn’t likely to put in anymore total court minutes with Team USA than he would with any training program he normally would have this summer. In fact, in a normal summer scrimmage series Rondo would probably put in 40 minutes per game – while with Team USA he’ll probably share a lot more minutes with the other stud PGs on the squad.
Plus he’ll not only have the benefit of training with excellent players (a lot of the best young talent in the NBA), he’ll get the benefit of excellent coaches on Team USA – with new sets of eyes to spot flaws and offer feedback on his game. And they all know that Rondo is supposed to work on his free throws …
Yes
It’s his choice and i respect that.
Also the PRO side argument: ‘Pride for His Country’
And he can try to win another championship that’s not a nba championship.
And last:
World Championship
That’s something to be very proud off as a basketbal player.
Not that a nba championship isn’t but it’s not the same and he’s already a nba champion that can get more.
Dutch Celtic Pride
+1
Bankshot – Best question in a long time! It really is that simple.
+1
Practice free throws on the side plus practice free throws in an actual game environment.
Win – Win
by GetYourSoxOn on Aug 17, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously the more you play and practice increases the chance of injury.
The selfish side of me says I don’t want him to play.
The patriotic side of me says “hell yeah he should play”.
And the logical side says, if he wants to play and the celtics endorse it, then why not?
.
I'm going to have to agree with Bankshot
Unless I get explicit reports NOW saying Rondo hasn’t been able to work on his FTs and his jumpshots in Team USA practices (or simply during that time), I’m not going to believe a reporter who tries to harp on this later if neither improves for Rondo during the NBA season.
Apparently, Rondo was only fully on board with playing for Team USA this summer when he heard he wouldn’t have to play that many minutes, too. Either way, look at this quote:
"No one is going to play over 20 minutes here," said guard Rajon Rondo (Boston Celtics), who dished out six of the USA’s 16 assists and scored six points. "So you have to go all out. Not that I’m pacing myself like in the NBA games. It’s a long season. This is only nine games. We have six guards here, five are points and a combo. For the most part I’m trying to go all out. I’m coming out within four minutes."
http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/national/10_mwc_exh_1.html
Yeah, I can’t say I’m losing sleep over what may or may not happen.
Yeah - when the 'bench' on the team includes guys like Billups and Rose
its not like Rondo will be playing 37 minutes per game.
He’d play more minutes (probably entire games) in some typical summer scrimmage program.
Thanks, Greg....
I brought this up yesterday, and got killed {except for Master Po}.
1} Rondo is a 4 year vet…he`s faced elite competition on a near nightly basis since 2006.
2} This is NOT the Olympics…so nobody cares {including Deron Williams, CP3, J. Nelson}.
3} His FT shooting/jump shooting beyond 10 feet remains laughable!
Practice isn't the same.
1) He’s faced great competition yes, but facing these guys in practice is not the same as live game competition. So I can’t fully agree with that. Besides the fact that the alternative to what he’d be doing is basically working at his home gym, facing no one, so not sure how that would be better.
2) Maybe, but Rondo cares, and that’s enough for me. I love to see a winners mentality in players, it doesn’t matter the stage.
3) FT shooting is the biggest obviously, as it definitely plays a part in how assertive he is going to the hoop. But again, I don’t see him correcting that by sitting at his gym in Kentucky and putting up a million shots. He’ll get his work in during practices, and he’ll work with Price again this year once training camp starts. No amount of repetition this summer is going to instantly fix his problems, it’s more mental than it is a lack of practice. He’s shown the form, he’s shot >70% from the stripe in a series (Cleveland last year) and he has the ability. The rest is the mental aspect, and that you just can’t replicate in practice, so if anything, being in competitive games with something on the line all summer will help him.
Practice...
John Wooden : “Practice doesn`t make one perfect, but perfect practice will.”
Rondo`s inability to shoot is the only thing standing in the way of him being the best point guard in the NBA. He needs to find a shooting form-routine he`s comfortable with, then do it over and over and over again until “muscle memory” takes over.
Same with his jump shooting. Then, opposing teams will no longer drop off defending him, as they urge him to shoot.
Wonderful quote.
Which doesn’t even come close to defining what he may have meant about “Perfect Practice” We can just as easily equate that to say that Wooden meant practicing game time situations, simulating his stress environment and developing a mental edge that can carry into live game situations.
If we want to throw a bunch of quotes out that can easily be misconstrued in order to vaguely make an argument we may as well just start punching the wall to try and make it to the other side, it’s about an equal futile exercise.
I don’t disagree with your point at all, it’s 100% right, but you don’t say anything about why playing for Team USA will stop him from working to improve on any of those things.
Misconstrued?
There are 15 year old girls who can sink 100 free throws in a row.
What….you think they developed that skill by NOT practicing long hours????
Nobody is asking Rondo to ignore other aspects of his game, or to shoot 100% from the line….but, by not devoting at least 2 hours per day during the summer, while pocketing $11M per year, is a clear sign that he is NOT fully committed to being the best player he`s capable of being.
Then again, not everyone has the self-motivation of Larry Bird.
not the bird argument again...
please see the other thread where this was discussed. the deifying of larry bird sometimes goes too far. this is the same guy who ruined the latter part of his career laying a driveway, and also broke his hand in a bar fight.
and please tell me who your source is that is keeping tabs on rondo so that you know he is NOT spending 2 hours a day practicing free throws. that’s some solid insider info.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Wait....
Rondo isn’t fully committed to being the best player he can be by playing for Team USA, having to form chemistry with guys he’s never played with before (outside MAYBE the All-Star Game), and having to learn Coach K’s system? REALLY? You act like he’s just sitting on his butt all day at home. Far from it.
Like it’s been said before, hitting FTs and jumpshots at home or at your hoop outside by yourself is much MUCH different than when there are 9 other guys on the court, and five of them want you to give that ball up ASAP, preferably to their team. Whether it’s a practice or a FIBA scrim/game, Rondo getting the latter experience will help much more than the former.
I’d also like to know what source you have that confirms he’s not getting his FT and jump shooting practice in on the side. I think Team USA’s coaching staff is well aware of Rondo’s weaknesses, for example.
You said it...not me
Rondo can`t hit FT`s in game situations because there are 9 other players on the floor…including 5 from the opposition?!?
Sounds like your boy has a “mental toughness” issue!
As for Bird, long after he became a superstar…he still showed up hours before game time, ran through the garden stands, and practiced shooting countless jumpers from every spot on the floor.
That`s part of the reason he won 3 MVP awards, and is the greatest NBA forward that will ever be born!
As for Rondo, he`s committed to doing what he WANTS to do…rather than what he NEEDS to do to approach greatness.
I'm not gonna call...
him playing for Team USA a “need” in order to approach greatness, but telling me it will not help him approach greatness (or more specifically, improve his game) is kinda laughable. Also, as far as what he WANTS to do, if nothing less, apparently he wants to PLAY MORE BASKETBALL. Are you really against that?
I see where you’re coming from as far as hitting FTs in game situations, but you didn’t deny about him hitting jumpers. So you agree with THAT, at least?
Also, I’ll have to again ask for the source saying that him being on Team USA has hindered his ability to practice shooting jumpers or FTs. Otherwise, you telling me he isn’t practicing them are just speculation. I mean, if he’s not doing them now, what makes you think he’ll do them after the Worlds?
Finally, put it this way…when’s the last time you heard of someone Rondo’s age saying they didn’t want to play for the National Team because he or she wanted “to improve his game more this off-season”?
Rondo can`t hit FT`s OR Jumpers beyond 10 feet...
—Unless Billups is teaching him to shoot FT``s…this entire summer experience is a total waste of his time.
—If Rondo is practicing FT`s….the results are pathetic.
Who are your sources?
I’d really like to know where everyone gets all this inside information that Rondo has no work ethic, or isn’t showing up to the gym early, or putting in the reps, taking the shots in practice, and doing all of those things?
There must be some secret camera hidden in Team USA practice facilities, and in Waltham that I don’t know about, since it’s so clearly well known that Rondo is a slacker who hasn’t been working hard enough.
/end sarcasm
Didn't Rondo seeked out Mark Price
To improve his jumper and FT shooting? Sounds to me that he’s trying. Tony Parker didn’t become a great shooter overnight under Chip Engelland. Tony had a bad jumper similar to Rondo’s as I recall.
Yes. Rondo hired Price to help tutor his shot last year
and also has retained him again this year.
Folks who don’t think guys can improve their free throw shot need look no further than Jermaine O’Neal. His free throw % in his first 5 or so years was horrible. Worse than Rondo. Worse than Shaq! But he improved it steadily and is a consistent ~75% FT shooter now (and has been for several years).
I don’t disagree wih you or Po. But I still support rondos decision o play. As 15 minutes a game for 9 games should not be a problem for a 24 yr old. He is gaining confidence by mentoring other stars, learning how to taylor his game to accomodate other non sure fire hall of famers. Possibly gaining much practice on his shot already, already focusing. The only risk is well, the one I don’t want to mention. And it is a valid concern, especially with those ankles.
IMHO I think he will be fine and grow with us this year and in part to this experience. You never know fellas this experience could put him over the top, making him a legit fnls mvp worthy candidate. As it did wonders for d Wade in 2008. Rondo will not be slowed by this, I think it will help his growth.
by Warrior Spirit on Aug 17, 2010 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Think of it this way
They win: rondo is motivated to win 2 championships in 1 year,
2 NBA titles, 1 finals loss and 1 world title in your 1st 5 years in the league should pretty much guarantee you the most $ of any free agent signing in the year of his next spin of the wheel. And since he would have the e tra experience and will, utter domination in the playoffs.
If they lose:
he is motivated by a much better reason. Losing 2 titles in 1 year, and not able to bear another.
And as Tom Hamilton, rhythym guitarist for Aerosmith points out below: a man travels abroad and a man grows.
by Warrior Spirit on Aug 17, 2010 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And then there would be more celticsblog fodder here
Imagine the threads!
Rondo convinces Durant to push for a trade to join him and Perk, with PP as Durante backup, lol
by Warrior Spirit on Aug 17, 2010 12:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I think I remember DWade alluded to playing for the US helped him
to have a great year in the NBA and so did Carmelo Anthony. But I understand the risk premise because one example is Manu Ginobli. Didn’t he injure his foot playing for Argentinaand against Popovich’s wishes and wasn’t the same Manu for a couple of years and had lingering effects?
He will be fine
I’m sure they have the top trainers keeping an eye out for signs of possible injuries, and with Mike Krzyzewski being the head coach I’m sure Rondo is learning things on a daily basis that will help him improve in every aspect.Plus he is getting to keep an eye on guys he will be going up against when the season starts, and learning what weaknesses they may have.
experience
Rondo likes to play for them and wants to show the world how good he is. Whats wrong with that`?
Also: he plays with many other great point guards and can improve his game against different styles.
Give credit to the international Game – if they win it all, Rondo will be a huge part of it and thats good for
the confidence in himself and for his team. Also: he’ll don’t play the whole games – Derreck Rose is a
hack of a backup for him and with only 10 minutes a quarter he plays only 20 minutes per game.
No reason for possible injury-panic (and it won’t be as physical as in the NBA)
It makes me laugh
To see people say “no” because our future franchise player could possibly get injured. I guess Rondo’s the only franchise player on Team USA, right? If Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Andre Iguodala, Rudy Gay, or any of those other guys get injured, its no big deal right? Quit being selfish, these are the facts:
1) Every great player plays for his country and Rondo has become a great player. Rondo has every right to prove his worth on the international level like literally every All Star and HOF caliber players before him for the past 20 years.
2) You can call the World Championships pointless, but Rondo has to start somewhere. He wouldn’t be able to just walk on to the 2012 Olympic team and secure a roster spot without participating in the program now.
3) Rest won’t be a problem. He’s 24, he won’t be playing more than 20 minutes a night and like Greg stated, he’ll have a month of rest before training camp.
4) He can easily work on his deficiencies during practices. Furthermore, he will be able to use what he works on in practice and put it into a game setting immediately, which is obviously important. Shooting a jumper or a free throw in a game setting is much different than shooting one in an empty gym.
by misterx2day on Aug 17, 2010 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I have no problem, I completely support him I just hope he doesn’t get injured.
by Stanley Acosta Calderón on Aug 17, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
Awesome!
I can’t wait to root for Rondo and Team USA! The NBA young guys need more opportunities to look beyond themselves and their professional lives, and representing your country is a great way to do it.
Thank you Rajon, and to the rest of our team for responding to the call!
by Thruthelookingglass on Aug 17, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"Networking" with the other star players is the biggest "pro" in my mind.
It’s not on the list in the blog post, but I think the strongest argument in favor of Rondo playing this summer is that he’ll be hanging out socially with some other top players, and giving them comfy assist-passes during the games.
It’s pretty clear that the friendships built during the 2006-2008 Team USA era have had a huge impact on who wants to play where (or with whom) among the top stars who switched teams this summer, or the guys who reportedly want out in the near future (Melo, CP3, etc.) and it can’t be a bad thing for Rondo to build some relationships of his own among other young stars, with the C’s poised to re-load in 2012.
I am totally in Favor of Rondo playing
Let’s establish a few things:
1) Playing for team USA is good for the development of a player.
2) Older players may develop late-season fatigue if they play the summer for team USA.
3) All good players are doing some sort of high-end conditioning during the summer, so it’s not like Rondo is exerting a tremendous amount more of energy.
Therefore, because of Rondo’s youth, this is the perfect time to get that extra development in. He’ll also be learning from different coaches who are good mentors.
And with regards to fatigue… Doc can reduce Rondo’s minutes by 4 minutes a game during the regular season and off-set the minutes played for team USA. What would be better for his development: a) playing 4 extra minutes in regular season games, or b) playing those minutes in international play as the leader of America’s team?? I say “B”.
This opportunity will benefit Rondo in the following ways:
1) Improve his conditioning for the regular season (not like he really needs it).
2) Raise is confidence and improve his leadership capabilities.
3) Develop and improve new skill sets under coaches like coach K, etc.
4) Network with other big name players his age.
5) Improve upon Rondo’s pride, and show him what it’s like to represent the USA, and not just be looked at as the Celtics starting PG
6) Play against different styles of play internationally.
7) Travel abroad and grow as a man.
8) Make Rondo even more mature, and more hungry to succeed.
I could go on and on, but in no way should this opportunity stunt his FT practice or shooting, provided he is motivated.
by TomHamilton30 on Aug 17, 2010 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A reliable jump shot and .750 average from the FT line are more important than any and all of those 8 alleged benefits.
please tell how playing organized basketball
prevents him in any way shape or form from practicing his FTs and jump shooting?
As sizzlack has stated many times it’s not as though rondo was going to go into a gym for 8 hours, punch the clock, and shoot 1000 elbow jumpers a game. This would do him little to no good.
what does help him is practicing those thigns on the side of USA practices, and then trying to do that WITH DERRICK ROSE GUARDING HIM.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t care whether he plays organized basketball, chills in Malibu, or stands on his head. But if he comes back next season, his jump shot sucks, and his free throw shooting takes yet another dip, all that redundant “confidence”, “leadership”, and “experience” won’t mean squat.
So it’s entirely Rondo’s business what he will do with his summer. I just care about the results. And if the results aren’t there once again in October, the obvious conclusion is he has to work harder.
by kozlodoev on Aug 17, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this I can agree with
+1
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
by WillyBeamin on Aug 17, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Too bad...
He could have increased his exposure by winning a “World Championship”. Could have been his second at such a young age. He’d be well on his way to having his own special when his contract was up in 2014. Disappointed.
We shouldn't be the ones complaining..
What about Denvers chancey billups? They’re entering a huge season as melo could be leaving and he’s 36, so his body isn’t exactly in mint condition. Every team is taking a huge risk with there franchise or future franchise players playing or team USA. But if we do lose rondo, this season would be over before it starts. The same could be said for OKC with Durant and possibly Westbrook, although there window is about 12 years while ours is realistically one year…
the few, the proud, the boston celtics
by bleedgreen34 on Aug 17, 2010 1:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Also back in 2008..
If James went down, Cleveland would basically go down to the basment. If Bryant was also severly injured, the lakers would struggle to make the playoffs in the west that year. I don’t think we should he that upset about this. It’s his career, and his talent. Let him explore what he wants to, even if it’s international ball playing for his country.
the few, the proud, the boston celtics
by bleedgreen34 on Aug 17, 2010 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes he should
How many times are you guys gonna put this up here. It can only help his game plus its no different from playing aau ball. He has his whole career to work on his free throws and jumper.
by CelticsHoorah!!! on Aug 17, 2010 1:19 PM EDT reply actions
I have been on both sides of this fence.
This is an honor and a chance for an athlete to showcase himself and his sport. To the rest of the world this is more important than the NBA Championships, and may be on equal standing with the Olympics, which makes it a good chance to build goodwill with other nations (assuming we show good sportsmanship and courtesy throughout).
Rondo would likely be engaging in some sport to stay in shape over the summer anyway. Given his age and the amount of time expended, I feel it is good for him. He can get help on his jumper and freethrows, and stay in shape.
I am afraid I do not feel the same way about the All Star weekend. I would rather have the players rest and recoup for a couple days in the middle of a grueling season. I would feel better about the All Star Game if it occurred in the off season, but everyone is pretty banged up for that event.
No
Obviously every player risks injury, but truly, Rondo might be the biggest risk for any franchise. If this was 2013, I wouldn’t be saying this. However, with the age of this team and the lockout looming, there may be no next year for this group.
We need Rondo at his absolute best this year, and I worry this could affect his ability to do that.
You guys are awesome!
Heated debate over a deep off-season topic! 80+ posts! CB is the best website ever — best staff, best fans!
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other about him playing (my gut screams “don’t do it,” but I also see some value in it). But, man — I have HUGE respect for those of you who have made passionate, well-reasoned arguments for and against. Thank you!
On the flip side, while I’m in no way saying this isn’t a worthy topic, I CAN’T WAIT till we have something more — substantial? — to talk about. Preseason, please hurry up and get here soon!!!!
Pro: He can network with other stars!
This is a huge pro that was left off the list, and it works especially well since he’s a point guard. Think of him throwing passes to Kevin Durant. Kevin thinks, "wow I’ve never had a point guard who set me up this good before." Now if Durant gets tired of OKC, he might say I want to go play with Rondo.
Happened with Kobe Bryant and Kidd in the Olympics (although they didn’t end up teaming up, not that Kobe and Kidd both didn’t want the Lakers to trade for Kidd), and it appears to have happened with DWade, LeBron, and Bosh. Also it appears to possibly be happening with Chris Paul too.
There is no better place for Rondo to establish himself as a guy other superstars want to play with, so it puts the Celtics in a fantastic situation to possibly get other superstars.
Off topic...
But his headphones look really stylish….the Celtics green color are pretty cool. Anyone know what type of headphones they are?
He got the custom made beats by dre headphones.They sound just like the bose headphones if you ever tried them. Their worth the $300.
by CelticsHoorah!!! on Aug 17, 2010 5:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
He's still young enough...
He’s still young enough to play year round and improve from the first rate international and team competition. I think it’s good. Plus, he’s close with Kevin Durant, maybe he can entice him or some other guys to come to Boston in a few years and play for a championship…
Rondo
play if you want, shouldn’t matter to us ……. maybe it well help his turn over ratio ….
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