The Big Vet Minimum
by Jeff Clark on Aug 5, 2010 6:04 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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Man, I go away for a few days and this is what happens in my absence? I love it.
I'm all for this move. Not because I have any dreams of Shaq being the Shaq of old. Rather, I fully expect him to be an old Shaq. This is all about value and the best you were going to get with the vet minimum would be a guy like Shaquille O'Neal. It's a no brainer really. Or should I say, a slam dunk? The Celtics get the best backup center left on the market and keep the option of trading Rasheed Wallace.
There are downsides and you have to go into this with eyes wide open. The guy is slowing down and was never fleet afoot to begin with. His defensive issues with the pick and roll have been well documented on this site over the last few days (great coverage by the staff by the way, don't you think?). There are stats that say that he made the Cavs offense worse when he was on the floor. His ego and personality trump even the recently departed Sheed. If Doc had trouble getting through last year, good luck adding a guy that struggles with injuries and motivation to a team that ...struggles with injuries and motivation.
But the worst that could happen is that he gets hurt and never helps us any more than Patrick O'Bryant did. (OK, I'm sure we could all come up with worse things that could happen, but I'm talking "within reason" here.) If he doesn't work out, he's cost us only the vet minimum, which from a business standpoint should be more than made up in jersey sales alone.
I know many will wonder how we could bring in a former Laker like Shaq, but I hardly think of him that way anymore. He's taken on a superstar hired-gun persona that makes him tough to get too emotionally charged about. He reminds me a little of Roger Clemens in that way. You know, sans performance enhancing substances, unless you count diet shakes.
Also, lets get past this debate right away. The other O'Neal is the opening night starter. Look no further than their paychecks to see who is valued more. And I fully expect Kendrick to be the starter when he's back to 100% (or close enough to it). If everything goes well, we'll go from having big concerns about big man depth to eventually having one of the largest rotations ever.
He's going to make a lot of headlines and generate a lot of interest for a lot of different reasons, but for me the rebounds alone will make it worth the pittance he's going to be paid (in NBA terms). It was a big weakness for us last year and he can't help but help in that regard.
With that said, I must admit that as a blogger it is exciting to have such a personality on the Celtics. Think of the post titles we'll get to use all season long. Think of the tweets and quotes. Think of the offseason entertainment options (who wants to have a chat night for his Shaq Vs show?!). It is going to be an entertaining season to say the least.
The Celtics kick off the season playing Shaq's old team (and some guys named LeBosh and Chris Bron, ...I think, ...will be involved as well) and with some a great deal of luck we'll end the season defeating another one of Shaq's old teams to earn Banner 18.
Say one thing for Danny, he's about as subtle as a sledgehammer and as timid as a tornado. I like it.
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Something to think about
When Shaq has his jersey retired by some team that team is probably going to be the Lakers…
Other than that, I’m also all for this move.
by Ruben Wolkowyski on Aug 5, 2010 6:34 AM EDT reply actions
Ha
they won’t retire his jersey if Shaq wins a title with the Cs against them! Damn, that would be fun to watch LoL
If we could win 2 CS with him, I would retire his number in Boston ^^
Retiring only green bleeders
A jersey should be retired (here) only if the player is truly associated as a Celtic and will become part of our legacy in the organization. I make exception to Bird, he tried to stay.
The player has to represent Celtic Pride. Obviously PP fits the bill. DA is also a retro candidate. I’d even go as far to consider KG. Otherwise, no one else is worthy in my opinion. It is an honor and should not be handed out like party favors!
I Wouldn't Mind KG...
When he came to Boston…. He just seemed like he was made to wear a Celtic Jersey….. The hard-nose defense…. The screaming and intimidation he put into opponents….
Seeing his face on the screen in the middle of the TD Garden before games screeming….
It just seemed like he had been a Celtic for life after a few weeks of watching him play.
But if someone asked me if i would retire KG’s jersey as a Celtic……. I’d tell you NO!
He hasn’t been here for all that long…. and even if he wins a ring this year…. He only won 2….. Maybe if he won last year and this year… a repeat… i’d think twice about it.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Listening to the radio in L.A. yesterday
there was alot of hate directed at Shaq. First, they denegrated him for signing with the Celtics, then it was because he left the Lakers (what, nothing about Kobe running him out of town?), and finally how they’d all boo him when his jerseys retired at Staples.
Totally classless, but we already knew that about L.A. fans. Oh, the only person I heard who was reasonable and rational was Vic the Brick, he actually wished him well and thanked him for his time in L.A.
Kobe didn't "run Shaq out of town"
Shaq demanded to be traded, and he did so after Kobe opted out of his contract in 2004 to pursue free agency.
Actually, with Kobe, it was either
Him or Me – he pushed it all the way.
How do you figure?
Shaq demanded publicly to be traded (see my above link). So unless Kobe got Shaq to do that, I don’t see how Kobe forced Shaq out. After all, at the time Shaq was signed for two more years, while Kobe was not. If Shaq hadn’t gone to the media and demanded a trade (again, see my above link), then maybe what you’re saying would have some validity to it. But the Lakers only traded Shaq at Shaq’s urging. You can try to spin that and re-write history any way you want, but the facts are the facts, and I gave you a link to back up what I’m saying.
Besides, if Kobe was the real problem there, how come Kobe’s never had any problems with any other teammates while Shaq has left one burned bridge after another in his wake? Shaq even clashed with notorious “good guys” like Steve Nash and Grant Hill. Just cause Shaq’s a Celtic doesn’t mean you should suddenly be blind to who’s he’s been up to this point.
First, I didn't realize you posted a link.
It’s not noted. Also, I live in L.A. and the 24 hour news cycle here, talk radio etc… was how Kobe was forcing the Lakers hand. Every day, 7 days a week. No, it’s not me spinning it any way I like. Kobe let it be known he no longer wanted to play with Shaq. Kobe tossed Shaq under the bus (so to speak) in the CO investigation. The Lakers brass decided they would rather keep Kobe as he was younger and more productive years ahead of him (that and he was Buss’s and West’s favorite). Shaq knew it and requested the trade.
Because of Kobe. Kobe wanted to be the center of the team and raged on Shaq all the time in the media. That’s what happened. And once Shaq was gone, and when Kobe didn’t like where the Lakers were headed he messed with them (I’m going to sign with the Clippers) until they got the gift of Gasol. I’m not painting anything.
It’s been Kobe’s way or no way, with the Lakers. Simple. I have no idea how you’ve missed that.
I agree exactly with you
It was Kobe who tossed his teammate, the reason why he got championships. Kobe is the real villain and not Shaq. Kobe never got the MVP while Shaq was in LA that’s why he wanted Shaq out.
Agree again that Kobe threatened LA to leave until Gasoft was giftwrapped to him.
It will be a travesty if the FAKERS don't retire Shaq's Jersey...
But can they stomach it though if Shaq ends up helping the C’s beat the Fakers in June?…
These and more will be the side stories in the storied career of the Big Leperchaun.
"No I’m not KG. Not at all, but I’m Big Baby Glen Davis from LSU, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I’m not the Big Ticket. I’m the Ticket Stub. Don’t count the Ticket Stub out. You might need the ticket to get in the game, but you leave with the ticket stub, because you’ll never forget this game."
Lakers don't retire Shaq....
Aknowledging Shaq as the focal point of that team…..
Puts a little bit of taint on the glasses of the Laker Organization that view Kobe as their legacy…..
To retire shaq means the Laker Organization is “flat-out” saying Shaq won us our first three….. Kobe just won us the last two….
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Has there ever been any question
who the focal point of those three titles was? I don’t think even Kobe would tell people he was the centerpiece of the 2000-2002 Lakers. Whether LA retires Shaq’s jersey or not I don’t think has anything to do with trying to appease Kobe. The negative things Shaq has said about the Lakers and their fans since leaving the team, and his joining up with some of their biggest rivals hurts his chances far more than his feud with Kobe does.
You still have the 3rings c/o Shaq (like it or not)
And all the things Shaq said were a reaction to what was done to him by Kobe and Company. He didn’t start all the feud that eventually happened.
Hey, I agree with you too.
Shaq was always gracious and funny while he was in L.A. until all the bull started. And he didn’t start it. So he’s said things about L.A. since he left (I don’t recall him saying things about the fans), and he’s definetly gone after Kobe a few times.
But how would you feel if you brought three championships to the franchise only to have the ownership side with the spoiled punk?
Folks forget...
That part of the problem was that Shaq was demanding $30M per year and wanted an extension.
Buss was unwilling to do that (and I don’t blame him). That was at least as much a reason for his departure from LA as the bickering with Kobe. And it was a large part of the reason why Buss kept Kobe and traded Shaquille. Buss didn’t want to pay $30M per year over multiple years for a player he felt was on the decline. So he traded Shaq. Kobe was younger and cheaper.
2003 proved the limits on the Kobe/Shaq partnership and Buss began the rebuild by getting rid of Shaq. In hindsight, that turned out not to be a bad move.
by Stanford_Fan on Aug 6, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It's Buss' decision
I don’t see it happening
by nba is the worst on Aug 5, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
the worst that could happen
is Shaq getting injured and our resigning Shelden or Scal.
Pace himself
Shaq can stay put for most of the regular season. If he can be the Shaq of old in the playoffs, we will be more than alright.
Now go get Rudy and the team will be complete. Let’s starts the training camp.
Shaq will pace himself, no matter what
Shaq’s been pacing himself through every regular season (except his first with Miami) since 2000-2001. But even doing so he’s not gonna ever be “the Shaq of old” ever again. If he gives you 10 & 10 on any given night, count your blessings. My guess though, is that if Perkins recovers (and isn’t traded), then Shaq will be playing the Scal role for the C’s come playoff time, and will be mainly towel waiving on the bench as the team’s 3rd string center.
You can only hope Jermaine is that healthy...
He is perhaps the most injury-prone big on any team (although Bynum and Oden could match him down the line).
He was SO BAD in the playoffs last year…
by nba is the worst on Aug 5, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is Shaq's real value to the team
He’s an insurance policy in case JO or Perk gets hurt. If those guys are healthy, Shaq will be watching from the bench.
The second unit is going to require some real coaching.
Presumably it’ll be Shaq, Davis, Daniels, Wafer and Robinson. Other than Davis, none of them are fully, or for some, even marginally established in playing within the Celtics’ existing style. Doc’s going to have a very substantial coaching challenge to deal with. Fortunately, it plays to his strengths as a coach.
Second Unit SOunds Better..
When its:
Nate… Von Wafer… (Unnamed Player)… Glen… Jermaine….
I think we’ll find after a month of BBall that Jermaine’s style of play will be more effective with the second unit than Shaq’s will be…
And both Shaq and Jermaine can play with the starters…
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Valid point.
JO is better defensively, so it might not be a bad idea to run Shaq out there while KG is on the floor. KG will lessen the impact Shaqs defense (or lack there of) would have because, well, he’s KG.
But I still expect to see JO start.
During the regular season.....
Especially if Perk is out till there is fewer than 20 games left…..
I expect to see Jermaine play most of the minutes for each game at the 5…… You can’t expect Shaq to run and hustle each possesion with Rondo and Nate on the floor for each of the 82 games……
But come playoffs when games matter….. I think Shaq’s offensive skills are a better fit within our starting 5 than with the second Unit.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Think about it this way
Both the O’Neals have to be giggling inside when they think about playing defense with a healthy KG. Think how much better that will make them look.
If Danny can come up with another on the ball defender like Tony, this teams defense has the potential to be as good as it gets.
Wafer...
I really think is going to develop. I mean people look at TA and think he was always great at defense. Not true, he learned the system, spent five years with Boston, and worked hard at finding his role and improving (finally) in 2010, and it finally clicked.
Wafer is coming in know the only way he finds serious minutes on this team, is to learn to play defense. If he wants to get back in the league, that’s the key, that’s the thing TA learned. He’s already said it in interviews, Doc flat out told, take the minimum, be a team player. And the first thing he talked about doing was being hungry to start working and learning the defensive system.
He has all the athletic tools TA has, and can shoot. He can absolutely be every bit the defensive guy TA was, and six times the offensive guy. It’s just a matter of how badly he wants it. So far he’s saying all the right things, and looks like he’s coming in with the right mindset. I expect big things.
I haven't seen enough of Wafer to comment
I knew he could shoot and drive left or right, but I didn’t know he was as athletic as Tony.
Also, Tony was a very good on the ball defender prior to this past year.
Jump to the sky.
The guy bit on every ball fake thrown. Not sure what you were watching.
and quick enough to recover.
Never said he was a smart player, just a good defender.
2+2=6?
So you’re saying, he bit on ball fakes, got drawn into a ridiculous amount of fouls, but was a good defender? Ya, that makes sense.
Come on, there was a reason he sat the bench for almost the entirety of 2008, let’s not make him out like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread because he had one good playoff run.
Talk about Debbie Downer
2008 – Ankle, Knee, IQ…
Let us also not forget
TA was the best on ball defender on the C’s the last 4 years, when healthy. In 2008 he torn an ankle ligament in Dec and played the rest of the year on it….do you think that might have had an impact on his play? Trust me….Wafer ain’t playin D like Tony, not in this life time. You can learn to play adequate D (see Ray Allen, PP in his youth & post 2007) but you can’t just learn to play lock down D….that’s in you from the start and you refine it. Alot of guys have the tools to play great D and they don’t, not because they’re not trying but because it’s not in them. You have to want D like it’s a drug, like most guys want offense. Wafer doesn’t have that…
So you say.
He’s also never been taught it.
And Ray is pretty lock down these days, not just “adequate” so I’d say it can be learned.
Ray is lock down?
That’s even funnier than saying Wafer will be as good as Tony on D.
Hmmm...
Did you watch the finals? Who was the primary defender on Kobe a majority of the time?
And he did a pretty damn good job. Kobe struggled most of the series, and most people would have to agree, LA won more because of Gasol than Bryant.
I did watch the finals
And I agree that Ray caused Kobe some troubles. But Ray has always caused Kobe troubles dating back to his Seatle days. That does not make Ray a lockdown defender. He plays Kobe great, he does not play Wade great, or AI, or Ben Gordon, or alot of 2 guards. He has favorable match ups just like any other player but he is not lock down.
Hmm...
Outside of the Game 4 performance, which you really can’t blame on Ray, cause he did what the Celtics gameplan was, and forced Wade to shoot outside. He just happened to be in an other worldly zone and everything he threw up went in.
But other than that, he played Wade very well for that series. Kobe is considered by most one of, if not the best player in the game. How is that a favorable match up?
I’m not going to bother looking up numbers on other 2 guards, but I hardly think he doesn’t play them well. Since you made the argument, feel free to back it up. Burden of proof lies on the accuser.
I watch the games, and I rarely see any 2 guards torch Ray, he’s a pretty damn good defender. Far better than your “adequate” statement at the least.
And a lot of personalities there
I guess doc could mix them up a lit bit on the court, like keeping 2 or even 3 starters with bench players and inserting diff players from time to time. Lots of choices fir doc. And offensively frank knows how to play with the mixed up roster
by friedgreentomatoes on Aug 5, 2010 3:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
one nitpick
I like the move, but I think there’s a result worse than an early injury. That would be if Shaq becomes a negative presence on the court or in the locker room. I could see a scenario in which Doc feels he has to keep playing him, even though he is making the team worse.
Or, he benches him and Shaq fumes. He’s not a negative guy, but a big, unhappy Diesel in the locker room will bring a lot of tension. He’s just a huge presence.
I hope we have someone who can pick up where Thibs left off and work him in to the defense in a way that he can handle.
He was a starter.
And Mike Brown didn’t have the backbone to reduce his role when matchups weren’t favorable (See: Boston series) much to the teams detriment.
If Doc sticks him on the pine, which he should against teams that play less half-court sets or do a lot of screen and roll movement, how well he react then?
There isn't many teams.....
That shaq would have a horrible miss match against within our defense…
He’s not going to have to guard KG…… In cleveland he guarded KG because of jamison….
I expect to see Shaq against Dwight… Bynum… Gasol… and possibly Noah… Depending on the game…. I actually believe Jermaine would match up against the Bulls better…. But i do think Shaq’s size would take out Noah’s rebounding ability.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaq v Noah
There are some excellent vids on google of Shaq posting up Noah.
Total mismatch. It’s like watching an M1 Abrams backing over a kid’s tricycle …
‘Not saying Noah isn’t faster around the court and can’t win other battles against Shaq. But under the post, total mismatch.
go away again ...
maybe we’ll get fernandez!
now we need sharpshooters on second unit
Just imagine Shaq feeding free Ray and Wafer and Fernandez. Its good that Tony is out…
No....
We need a perimeter defensive stopper……
I strongly believe we need a Battier, Grant Hill type more than Rudy…. Someone who Doc can trust on the second Unit to do what Pierce and Ray can on the defensive end…. Marquis’ defense is horrible…. especially against the stronger players!
There’s no way we are trading Sheed’s contract for Rudy when rudy makes less than 2 mill.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Jeff
I’m unsure about the Cavs being better without Shaq on the floor, however, assuming that was true:
It would have been totally because of the input of Varejo. He was the one guy I feared on that team. Every game I saw, he got most of the rebounds, most of the loose balls, generally created havoc and scored the bunnies when they were available off offensive rebounds. I would LOVE to have him on our team!
Welcome back Jeff, juicy enough return topic for ya?
I am psyched to think that Shaq will join the long list of vets at the end of their career who contribute to Celtics title runs. He just may be the ‘Wilt" of his era, and I’m glad to have him, trusting Doc and the other vets to help keep him in his proper place.
“Danny is as subtle as a sledgehammer and as timid as a tornado…”
That’s the best last line you’ve ever written… I love it…!!!
by jyrecelts on Aug 5, 2010 9:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
that was a hell of a line!
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Kendrick Perkins' days could be numbered...
That picture of Shaq and Perk is interesting given what I’m thinking – Shaq on his way in, Perk on his way out.
I can see Perk being traded in a few months to build around Rondo. Oneal and Oneal really gives the Celtics some breathing room to explore this option without weakening the Cs championship aspiration for the now.
"You're about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest." Rowan Atkinson
by The Village Idiot on Aug 5, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions
Perk = 25
Shaq is gone in 2 years. JO although only 31 has played 14 NBA season, he may not stick it out to 35.
Perk is a guy for the future, who should come pretty cheap when his contract is up. As good as he is defensively, he’s an offensive liability, and with questions on his knees now, teams aren’t going to be paying high for highly flawed players with bad knees.
There’s no way Boston let’s him go.
But don't expect to see Perk till....
there is 20 games or less left in the regular season….
Personally i think keeping Perk healthy is the best option….. Don’t let him play at all for the regular season… then if he got healthy enough to play in the last 20 games…..
Let him play only in the playoffs….. Use the first series as a way for him to get back into BBall form.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah - their is no hurry to rush Perk, so long as the O'Neals both stay healthy.
And there should be some garbage games along the way to give minutes to Erden to see how he does at the NBA level.
Although JO has played in 14 NBA seasons, he is not really that overly 'worn down'.
Folks forget that he came out of H.S, like KG, but mostly sat on the bench his first few years while learning the game – he arguably got less wear and tear during that span than he would have if he’d played college ball (where he would have been a starter).
He barely has half the total minutes played that KG has, because of that.
He did have the bad knee injury, but has managed to post 68+ games in 3 of the last 4 seasons including both of the last two. So he looks to be well past that.
Well, anything is possible in this crazy world.
But the probability of Danny Ainge contracting a severe brain disease and then getting hit in the head multiple times such that he completely loses all sense of reality and then goes and trades Perkins away – JUST BECAUSE HE HAS SHAQ FOR TWO FREAKIN’ YEARS???? – is pretty much zero.
Perkins is only 25 and already one of the elite defensive centers in the game. When he was fully healthy last fall he was also a deadly finisher – folks forget he was on pace to set a Celtics record for FG%. After he tweaked the knee in January he regressed on offense, but the potential to come back to that is still there. And his defense never suffered.
Perkins IS a major piece that is to be ‘built around Rondo’!
Even if he misses every game this season, I fully expect Danny to lock him up for the next few years. Elite defensive centers are just too freakin’ hard to find.
Ideally we would like to keep perk for sure
He is beloved and young. But everything in the league comes to business. Perks injury is a big concern and so is the lack of offensive skills and potential. The other thing is this is his contract year, and we don’t know what he would be looking to get and whether the team would be willing to give. It all depends on the market and what we would get in return if we did trade perk. It is reasonable for ainge to consider all the possibilities and I wouldn’t call that crazy
by friedgreentomatoes on Aug 5, 2010 3:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd think that too, except...
Even if the C’s packaged Perk’s contract with Sheed’s and were able to get back $11 or $12 million in salary, who would they go after? Ray’s signed for $10m/year for the next two, KG’s signed for $20m/yr for the next two, Pierce is signed for at least the next three years, Rondo’s signed for the next five years, and that’s every position in the starting lineup except center. But are there any centers out there making that kind of money who are available? None that I know of. Are there any centers available at all who are better than Perk? Even if there are, that’ll still give the C’s three centers. Would Ainge be looking to turn Ray into a $10m/yr sub? If so, what primo shooting guard out there is available in exchange for a salary dump? What hole could the Celtics be looking to fill by trading Perkins or Perk and Sheed’s contract?
Jermaine O'Neal Might....
Start Opening Day……
But to think come playoff time, when OUR REAL season begins….. Shaq will be on the floor when the game matters the most…. When offense wins games late in the final minutes… Shaq will be out there… Not Jermaine…..
Jermaine’s dollar amount is beside the point ( Since contract money go based upon what kind of market the player commands ), jermaine is younger and was looked at by a lot of teams…. The more teams that want a player the more money a player can look for….
And to think Perkins will be at all near a 100% come playoffs is kind of absurd? Didn’t we just watch what happened to KG when someone tries to come back to early?
He might be able to play come playoffs….. But his defensive stopping abilities rely on the strength of his legs.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
JO's offense.
Is a better option, unless match ups dictate Shaq having his way. If we’re playing Atlanta, no doubt. Put Shaq in there, there’s noone inside for Atlanta that can stop him. Now if we’re up against Orlando, I’d rather see JO out there, make him spread the floor and pull Dwight out of the paint.
It’s all match ups, which is why I think the signing was so great. If both Oneals are able to buy into their role, and accept riding the pine in certain key situations when match ups dictate, then it’s a wonderful thing to have that kind of flexibility.
I think opposite...
Against teams that have someone like Horford…. I see Jermaine playing more….
Gainst someone like Dwight who is sized-like-a-beast…… I see Shaq playing more….. Shaq manned up against Dwight everytime they faced off…. Shaq never got man-handled by Dwight….
I fully expect to see Shaq stop and shut down Dwight in the post.
ANd on offense…. Shaq wins over Dwight’s defense anyday…. Shaq still has that offensive ability unlike any 5 in the league…..
His defensive ability is the question.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaq plays man-on-man against Howard very well.
One caveate against using him TOO much against Orlando is that Orlando started using more high-pick-&-roll with Nelson & Howard last year. That was tough enough for Perk & Sheed to handle and could be a real weakness if Shaq is in there.
That said – just like we adjusted with the way we handled that in the playoffs (we changed the way we covered Nelson through the screen and cheated more help from Paul & Ray), there are ways to scheme to account for that in Shaq’s case as well.
Doc has a lot of planning to do this off-season.
Towards the end of the game you may see Shaq...
…on the bench due to his FT%.
Two years ago
Don’t forget he was ALL NBA just two years ago!
by Celtico on Aug 5, 2010 9:22 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Can Shaq be a 2010 Bill Walton for the Celts?
Shaq, like Walton, is one of the best passing big men of their respective eras. Both were #1 draft picks, both moved around the league, both won titles elsewhere, and both had to/will subjugate their games for the good of the TEAM.
Can Shaq be that dominating 15-minute per game big man that Walton was in 1985/86? That was 25 years ago.
Come Playoffs....
I see Shaq putting in 20+ min against Orlando & Lakers & maybe the Bulls.
I can’t think of any other teams that we would need Shaq to really put up huge minutes against…..
Which means he won’t be exhausted throughout the playoffs….
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaq at least doesn't come with a history of fragile knees and ankles
Walton was awesome – but we had to nursemaid him through each season!
My only problem with this is...
…there should be some controls put in place, so the best teams don’t always get the best free agents. The league would be better served if Shaq joined a team that needed the help and the bump in fans and TVmedia exposure to sell merch and stuff.
Other than that…let’s go BEAT LA….uhm…and MIAMI.
Uh... what?
How does that make any sense. Why would a past his prime player in the twilight of his career, go play for a team that needs help?
Shaq isn’t a guy who can put a team over the top anymore. So why would anyone want “controls” that would force a player like him to go play in a small market, and finish his career in oblivion with 32 win seasons? He’d of rather retired, it makes no sense.
I said it was...
…my only problem. It doesn’t have to be yours. If Shaq doesn’t want to continue to make the NBA better, then he should retire. How long until it’s basically just like Money League Baseball where only a few major market teams compete and the rest serve as Washington Generals?
its already begun....
Stern started this title wave once he saw how much the NBA made when it was Bulls vs Knicks…. the largest market vs the third largest….
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Owners still fighting.
If the new CBA imposes harsher restrictions on max contracts, it’ll help the small market teams.
But really, what’s the alternative, bigger markets will always have bigger draws, can you blame the players for wanting to make more money in endorsements? How about the other intrinsics, more fans, more recognition? Wouldn’t you do the same?
The alternative is you go to a hard cap, no exceptions, straight based salary. It means a drastic decrease in player salaries, and small market teams will lose money since their no longer getting a piece of the luxury tax big market teams are paying into.
Miami and NY got the best free agents.
We got a guy at the end of his career, he’s a back-up.
Noones comparing Shaq to anyone else.
There’s no question who the best FAs in the off-season were, I don’t see you’re point. No ones comparing getting Shaq to grabbing a guy like Lebron. Come on now.
But, at the vet minimum, it very well may be the steal of the off-season.
My reply was to Raef and his comment about the best teams getting the best free agents.
Miami and NY were NOT the best teams but did get the best free agents.
one of the free agants they got I wouldn't want in green - ever
I don’t care how good he is
Is it Soup Yet?
Misread.
Oh… well, that’s pretty crazy anyway. Much as I hate the guy for how he handled “The Decision” and how much of a prick he is, I still wouldn’t mind him on the Celtics. He’s pretty freaking good.
I guess we agree to disagree
Bill lambeer and isiah Thomas were very good players in their day and but i would never want them in Celtic green because of who they were…there is more to life and the NBA than simple talent ….there is character and he has none that I can see….Lebron is loser even he wins…
Is it Soup Yet?
+10 squared, Great One
The messiah and green is an oxymoron
I wouldn’t have minded Laimbeer in green, though. Even though I despised him.
by Finkelskyhook on Aug 5, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
isn't shaq better than rasheed?
he can single-cover guys like dwight howard just like sheed. but unlike rasheed he’s not going to shy away from posting up. and then you subtract all of rasheed’s heaves from deep and add shaq’s high-percentage shots, and it seems like a very nice upgrade.
he doesn’t stretch the floor, but if he can set screens up top like perkins, that’s just as good, right?
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Also, JO.
You’re right about most of what you said, Sheed’s playoff performance was different obviously. But we also have JO now to stretch the floor when needed, like when we play Orlando and you want to drag Dwight out of the lane to free up space. Pop in JO, make him set high screens and pop, if Dwight picks up the driver, JO is open at 15 ft. This brings Dwight out of the lane, forces him to play at 15ft, open up spacing in the lane, and makes it harder for him to crash boards.
Then against teams that don’t have dominating inside presence (Atlanta i.e.) you bring in Shaq, and let him work in the paint. The two Oneals were amazing signings for this team, you have a big man answer for every match up now.
I didn't know we had a pick&roll PG????
To play pick and roll you need a PG who can knock down shots consistantly from 20+ feet…..
Rondo isnt that guard…. maybe paul pierce could do it….. but pick and roll doesnt fit our offensive schemes…..
We run “off-ball” screens for pierce and ray while throwing the ball into the post with KG….. and occasionally Rondo goes nuts and does his “Rondo-Thing” and scores off transition….
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Wrong...
Rondo is perfect for a pick and roll, where the screener has a shot from 15ft. It’s a pick and pop, not a pick and roll.
Pick and roll has the screen peel off toward the basket, we’re not doing that, the idea is to get the screens man (in my example, howard) to have to stay home long enough to take Rondo off his track, and give his teammate (who curls behind the screen, since they don’t respect Rondo’s shot) time to recover into the lane and take away Rondo’s drive. Then the screen pops out high to 15-18ft creating space for the jump shot, and Rondo can dish.
It accomplishes two things, get a good look for JO, and gets Howard out of the paint, making rebounding more difficult for Orlando.
You could do this with Sheed as well, since he was good for 15ft. He would often pop out to the 3-pt line, the problem is, they didn’t respect his 3-pt shot for most of the year. Sheed’s man wouldn’t even pop out to contest, and would just crash the board as soon as Sheed popped out, and Sheed couldn’t knock down the wide open shots. In the playoffs he hit a few, but even still, with then being WIDE open, it should have been a higher %.
JO, can hit that 15-18ft at a very high rate (he shot a career high % last year) so it should be far more effective.
same concept
the defender doesnt have to respect the guard’s ability to shoot when rondo runs it…. so the defender can go under the screen while the pick’s defender stays home…..
which means rondo has an open jump shot and no lane to drive while the pick’s defender is still guarding the big…. what good does that do if rondo can’t knock down the shot…..
When the defender has to respect the guard’s ability to shoot…. he can’t go under the screen…. either the defender’s switch or the defender goes through the screen…. then jermaine would have an open shot or rondo could drive.
Just look at which guards run the pick and roll(Pop) most effectively….
Nash…. Jameer…. Curry… Billups…. Kobe… etc.
They all are great shooters.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
We almost never run picks with rondo....
Doc never designs the plays that way…
Although in the Finals he started running the picks with KG and Pierce for a game or 2.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
but that is irrelevant to running the p & r
You actually need more of a shooter from the big man, the screener because on the p&r the guard is either driving for a layup or dishing. The big man is either sliding in to recieve the dish behind the defense or (if his man played off to prevent that) can recieve it out for the 12-15 foot jumper.
This is one of the ways we feed KG. We don’t do it with Perk because he doesn’t have that 15 foot jumper (instead we use Perk’s screens to free up Ray for the catch & shoot or to force a switch to create matchup advantage isos for pierce or KG.
With JO, we clearly could run the p & r, just like Sizzlack indicates because he has that mid-range shot.
The guard doesn’t need an outside shot to run the p & r.
‘Not that I don’t wish Rondo had a more consistent outside shot!
Not Rondo, but...
…Robinson, Bradley, Allen and Pierce could work the pick and roll with Shaq and the pick and pop (or roll) with JO.
Rondo’s mid-range jump shot isn’t good now, but with time it might become “good enough.” Last year Rajon’s shot showed some promise, still streaky and off more than on, but some promise.
Sheed was great....
I think Sheed was a great fit….
His back was a huge issue…… Sheed’s defense in the post was probably the best in the league.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaq is better than Sheed?
Please, a corpse is better than Sheed!
Haha... valid.
At least in the regular season definitely. Which is what I find funny about the people knocking the Shaq move saying he can’t play pick and roll defense… ugh, so Sheed did? Please. During the regular season he was easily equally as bad at it as Shaq is. Playoffs maybe he was slightly better, maybe. But still, not all that great.
What is Tommy going say???
After reading a few posts, I started to think a bit more about Shaq’s interior game. Then ringing as a voice in the back of my head I heard Tommy say, “he’s in the paint camping out !!!!!”
What will Tommy’s take be this year I wonder. “Shaq was mugged….”
by 1sport1team on Aug 5, 2010 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Both O'Neal's are suspect as Jeff suggest
I ma not against the move…….but I would not be surprised to see both O’neals on the sideline in wheelchairs about January…..I have zero faith in either one and I have very little love for either one …………………………..but if they somehow help us beat Miami or LA then so be it……
My real faith resides in Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Kevein Garnett, Rajon Rondo, and Big Baby Davis and that is about it……at this point
welcome back El Jeffe
Is it Soup Yet?
must agree...
very valid….
Although i can see Shaq helping our offense a lot when pierce and ray go cold….
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Uhhhh
Talking about how Shaq will actually play is one thing, but I’ve said this before about injuries: outside of KG, what “old” guy for our team has been hurt for an extended period of time? Daniels, BBD (and not even on the court!!!!), and now Perkins.
And Shaq, didn’t he roll his thumb last season thanks to BBD? I don’t know if he “leaned into” Shaq or just fell on his thumb…but I think I’ve come to believe that no one’s more likely to get injured than the next guy just because they’re older.
I think age does have an effect on injury. As the pro athlete begins to lose their athletic ability they push themselves to continue to play like they use to and injury becomes a bit more likely. Also as any of us age we start to lose flexibility and that makes injury a bit more likely. The big problem, though, is recovery time.
A 20 year old will bounce back from routine aches and pains a faster than a 30 year old and a lot faster than a 35 year old. Playing while still trying to recover from something minor makes it more likely that you’ll do more damage to yourself. It also takes more time to recover from major injuries, the recovery from surgery takes longer, physical therapy is harder and takes longer and longer, and eventually you just don’t heal well enough to continue to play.
I've looked and looked, but I just can NOT find a study that supports
that older athletes are any more likely to get injured than younger athletes. For any chance increase due to not being as fast at something, they decrease chances by being smarter and more practiced about what they are doing. So in reality, injury rates tend to be about the same. Further, older pro sports athletes tend to be, by sheer selection, better genetic athletes period – that’s why they lasted in the sport so long.
Also regarding how fast they heal – there ARE studies that cover this. And , well you are right and wrong. Older athletes do heal more slowly. But you are wrong when you use the phrase “a lot faster”. The difference in healing rates for sports injuries betwen guys in their forties and guys in their 20s is on the order of 15% or so. So guys in their 30s are probably healing no more than about 10% slower.
So what that means, is that if a sports injury takes a 25 year old about 10 days to heal, it will take the 35 year old around 11 days, give or take.
What folks are consistently mistaking when they talk about this topic is that ‘old’ is relative. I am old. Paul, KG, Ray and even Shaq – they are NOT old. They are simply older than Avery Bradley. They are still relatively young men and further they are genetically elite athletes in supreme condition with the best in sports medicine at their disposal.
These are not a bunch of 80 year old sedentary folks with osteoporosis.
Who got injured last year and missed the most time? KG’s injury was freakish and probably due to trying to rush back too soon and not really age related and he still played 69 games. But it was the young guys, BBD, Daniels, Tony – those guys aren’t old by any stretch. Perk is our biggest injury loss at the moment – and he’s also a wee bairn.
Meanwhile, the ‘old’ guys last year – Rasheed, Ray, Finley – got through the whole regular season (until ’Sheed’s back finally got to him at the end of the finals).
The nutshell of all this: Inuries are spurious and can happen to anyone at any age with pretty much the same probability. Healing rates are slower as you age, but its not that big a difference between guys in their mid-20s versus their mid-30s.
Finally – assuming we drop Sheed from the count and insert a 25 year old (Gaffney at the moment) and include Harangody as the likely 15th man, our roster’s average age is 27.6 – younger than last year by about a year.
Rondo most creative interior passing point guard
I think Rondo is going to get Shaq a lot of points. When Rondo penetrates he always finds a way to make the interior pass. I have never seen anyone but him make a perfect bounce pass to a player who is 2 feet away. Shaq has good hands and I think hew will get a ton of points off of Rondo’s penetration. He won’t inhibit Rondo by “clogging” the lane, he will actually become a huge target for Rondo.
second that.
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
No, not Debbie Downer
I am the youngest of six, my last name begins with D and a neighbor couldn’t remember my name so he called me Little D.
I have been in favor of Shaq coming to town for a while. I love guys 6’11 and up. Why? Because they scare the hell out of guys that are 6’9 like Josh Smith. Players like McHale, Caldwell Jones, Walton and even Noah, I just love their game.
I’m not sure why you think I am being negative for stating what had been previously reported (Nash). I actually think the inside outside game with Nate and Wafer is just what the doctor ordered (no pun intended)
Sounded pretty pessimistic.
Sorry, I took your comment on Nash as an argument against getting Shaq.
Shaq says, "Right back at you, young man!"
And Shaq is one of the better interior passers in the NBA. I can easily see him getting a pass in the low post, waiting for a two count to attract a double team and then hitting a cutter for a layup/jam. Daniels, Rondo, Allen, Pierce, KG, Robinson, Bradley, Baby and even Wafer could all benefit from Shaq’s passing, both on kick-outs and/or cuts to the basket.
i agree...
and with shaq having good hands and one who doesn’t put the ball down before he gets up for the shot (unlike perk), i believe also, he’ll definitely benefit from rondo’s drop passes…
Couple of points about the O'Neals
1. Jermaine O’Neal is far from “suspect”. I think he is one of the most underrated offseason additions in the league. A few years ago, he went from a 35-37 minute a game player to a 28-30 minute a game player. If you look at his numbers, they have been remarkably consistent for the last four years or so. Every year he averages 28-30 minutes, 14 points and 7 boards. With his length, shot-blocking and shooting….he may be a better fit than Perk with our starting five. I expect big things from Jermaine this season. Our starters will be much tougher to defend with him in the game.
2. Shaq should never see the floor down the stretch of a big playoff game. Hello??? FREE THROWS?!?!?!?
Wasn't our free-throws already horrible last playoffs??
Integrity Is The Highest Ground To Which We Can Aspire
by Flight2BOSTON on Aug 5, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, and...
Perk isn’t so great at them either. A reason you saw Sheed on the floor late in a lot of games, and will probably see JO out there more often than not.
One O’Neil is great at drawing fouls, but not so good at converting free throws. The other O’Neil is very good at converting free throws, but not so great at drawing the fouls. Play Shaq early to get the other team over the limit, then play JO to capitalize on it, and generally there won’t be a fall off in ability or effect on the court in either case.
I think that as long as Jermaine is healthy and effective this year, “Hack-a-Shaq” is going to lose most of its utility.
“Hack-a-Rondo” otoh…oh, I still think Doc can handle that with Nate and (hopefully) Bradley.
Good point.
If teams employ the “hack-a” technique early in games, on either Rondo or Shaq, it will hurt the, later in games.
Once in the penalty, they wont have fouls to give when JO is on the floor late. That can really affect games. Another reason why having both is such a great bonus, match ups to cover every angle.
Free throws
I agree with everything said here.
One thing I noticed while looking through the stats is that Jermaine O’Neal used to be horrible at shooting freet hrows. He as easily as bad as Shaq in his first 5 or 6 years – worse than Perk. Well below 60% overall for his first 5 years.
Yet his overall career avg is up to 71% and as recently as 2009 he hit 79% from the FT line.
This points out that there is still a chance for Rondo and Perk to improve from the line!
Probably too late for Shaq, though …
unless there is an injury jermaine is the starter and shaq is the backup
and when perk comes back, shaq is the 3rd center. It’s hard to fathom but right now we have 6 guys on our roster who can play center: KG,Baby, SHaq, Semi,Perk and Jermaine
Seven...Erden
He might not stay on the roster, but he’s signed to a contract (I think it’s non-guaranteed) for this year. Er…well, it’s true that we don’t know that Erden can actually play in the NBA, but center is his position. :)
Even an Old Shaq is still quite good
He’s not the player he used to be but he’s still rather good. 12 points 7 rebounds a game in his worst year last year with the cavs, and in only 23 min per game. If he duplicates that, that’s a huge contribution! And maybe he needs to even start over Perk when Perk gets back (although bulk of minutes go to perk).
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
Not on Shaq starting over Perk...
but on your point of a old Shaq still being a good fit for the C’s.
Since when is Jermaine a center?
He’s more like a PF especially when you have Shaq on your roster.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
Played Center last year in Miami.
But he’s versatile, he played PF in Indiana when they had Smitts. Danny admitted he’s excited about the versatility JO brings, when Perk gets back, they’ll have the option of moving him to PF to spell KG, and bring in Perk/Shaq at Center.
This will cut into BBDs minutes a lot though, as he can’t play SF really at all.
some thoughts
if he messed any chemistry issues up he’s cut. any questions? how can you have a problem with this, a 20 minute player with his points and his rebounds, plus his body. imagine we go KG, shaq, and JO/harongody, then rondo/nate/allen/RUDY. Honestly with any mix of those 4 at the guard position the floor would be spread so nicely on offense, and on defense you cant score.
KG post, Shaq post, JO/ harongody can both shoot the 15 footer
rondo can break down any defense, but if you really wanna space the floor put in nate and allen, or nate and rudy.
the combonation of rondo and nate, with JO KG AND SHAq would be too much speed and lenght for any team to handle. i really just cant see many team sucsessful against that.
also im all for the rudy trade if you havent noticed.
on top of it imagine all the times rondo has found perk underneath the hoop with an open dunk but he bobbles the pass. shaq has soft hands, and even if he does bobble the pass you know hes gonna get his feet together alot faster then perk could.
i love perk, and would be devastated if we trade him, i really hope he comes back 100 percent this year but thats doubtful. Practicing with shaq should give him and offensive game, and hopefully give him better footwork on offense, instead of all his turnovers.
I also believe that barring any major injuries we will get the 18th banner. KG is finally 100 percent, althought it took a very long time he doenst seem to be going into his decline this year. Does anyone remember the playoffs last year? this guy locked down JO, a jamison, rashard lewis… in the finals he definitly didnt play his best but he only let pau average 18.5 ppg when in all the previous series he averaged 22ppg in the playoffs. honestly if your bringing your oppenent down 4 ppg when you literally SHUT DOWN, JO who averaged 13 ppg, A JAMISON who averaged 15 ppg and Rashard lewis who averaged 12 ppg, i honestly dont see how people can see hes going to definitly decline this year.
A full year of nate and donkey is really going to help, they compliment eachother well. also nate will finally learn the system and hes still young so hes only going to get better. especially on the defensive end. when i watch him and rondo in the back court together, althought they both are short as hell, there so much speed that it makes up for the height.
Ray allen shot lights out when his hip wasnt bruised, i dont care how old you are, taking 1000 shots a day you can only get better. especially with 2 new bigs that are actually a threat underneath the hoop hes going to get open shots.
banner 18…. here we come
Signing Shaq for a min contract
is a great move by Danny as it is a low risk and possibly high reward move.
C’s have lacked size off the bench last year having really on Sheed as a legit big man.
Now with Shaq and Jermaine signed (when Perk returns) the C’s will have 2 legit big men with size and length to be able to come off the bench which we really have not had in the big 3 era.
A KG – Perk – Jermaine – Shaq – Baby big man is a nice big man rotation for Doc to work with and one of the best in the NBA.
Throw in Sheed (if he does not retire – which is my wish) and WOW…that would be though a older a big man rotation, a very formidable, talented one.
Not sure if this has been said but...
In order to win a ring, Shaq may have to go through Orlando, Miami and LA, all his old teams when he was a primetime guy. Good motivation if you ask me.
by Eeeee on Aug 5, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
for those LA fans...
who are degrading SHAQ they must not remember the 3 rings he won for them…..
i’m glad we got him. i think he will help us but enough to win # 18… not sure about that.# 18 will depend on Rondo
Don't waste Shaq.
I really don’t care what the lineups look like w/ Shaq during the regular season. We need him fresh for the playoffs.
I specializes in grammar fail.
Erden will probably get some occasional games as the backup center to spell Shaq.
First, so Ainge can actually see something concrete about Erden. Second, and more importantly, as you say, so Shaq can be kept right for the playoffs.
Maybe.
He’ll see mostly garbage time though, I doubt you see him on the floor in any tight games. Barring injuries (KNOCKS ON WOOD) Of course.
yeah -but there should be plenty of garbage games
there are going to be some very bad teams in the NBA this year
As a lakers fan i just came over to see what you Celts thought
about this…until the 2nd or 3rd line of the blog/post, when i ran into this line: “The guy is slowing down and was never fleet afoot to begin with.”
Obviously he is a big fatass slow like mollases, etc etc etc, now. But to say the guy was never fleet of foot is absolutely INSANE. He is not fleet of foot now, but in his prime when he and Kobe were winning the Lakers 3 championships, this guy was quick like a cat. I literally cannot believe anyone would say Shaq in his prime wasn’t fleet of foot. Remember when he only had 7% body fat? Remember when he used to move like a jungle cat? The guy in his prime was not only fleet of foot, but like a bolt of lighting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUE_0LRxtpU
i guess people just forget.
Agree.
For a guy his size, he moved better than anyone out there.
He’s still not that bad, I mean honestly, he still moves better than Big Z, and he’s got about 90 pounds on him.
"For a guy his size."
That’s a big part of his whole thing. There weren’t, and aren’t many his size. Maybe him and Yao Ming constitute the entire grouping.
Yao Ming...
Is practically anorexic compared to Shaq.
Yao, anorexic?!
Actually, I probably was figuring Yao for carrying a bit more weight in those legs.
Of course, if you go by the lies they tell on the players statistics of NBA.com, then Yao is only fifteen pounds lighter than Shaq (315 to 325 lbs.). And likewise, I still weigh what I did in high school.
Quick, but not especially fast
is how I always saw Shaq. Shaq wasn’t a cheetah, he was a tiger. Today, he’s surely not a cheetah, but he can still do his old tiger tricks now and then.
Which...
Is exactly my point for people who are knocking the trade. We needed a back up Center, no doubt about it.
So look at two Centers who both signed for the Vet min, Big Z and Shaq. Who would you rather have when you had nothing but the minimum to spend?
Exactly.
Icing on the cake--
If Shaq loses 20 lbs before training camp. He could jump 2-3 inches higher, which would make a world of dif. Get him to train with Perk, that will be the ticket.
Calling Glen Davis.
LSU Alum, and good friends. Maybe Big baby can get Shaq on this two-a-day high intensity MMA program Glen’s reportedly been doing?
Hopefully.....
Glen’s MMA instructor taught him how to throw a punch so he isn’t gone half the damned season.
by Finkelskyhook on Aug 5, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
This is great ~~~~~
Why, you ask, just listen to all the talk radio concerning Shaq and the Celtics and it’s the Middle of the Summer!!!
Even here with all the blogging and the AMOUNT of blogging that everyone is doing on here.
Good or Bad, don’t you all see that the Celtics have generated excitement and everyone can’t wait for that first game against Lebron and Company
What more can you ask for this summer; just when everyone thought we were dead right after the playoffs !!!! The Celtics pull us right BACK
Best nickname is.....
The Big Insurance Policy.
In a perfect world, Shaq is PJ Brown in the playoffs, at best.
So I'm curious about what lineup we use against LA now
for a Gasol-Bynum scenario, and a Gasol-Odom scenario. I doubt we’ll ever see Old Man Ratliff ever except during foul trouble for two of LA’s bigs.
I’m thinking Shaq-KG is best against Gasol-Bynum, and KG-Davis is the best against Gasol-Odom. The first setup I think we can switch out KG for Perk, and same for the second set, but we already know Doc doesn’t like a Perk-Davis lineup. No size at all.
ie, I don't like JO
He has no lift left, and I think is outmatched by all three of the Lakers bigs when he’s on the defensive end. On the offensive end he might be able to overmatch Odom, but not Gasol or Bynum.
by SayWhatBoston on Aug 5, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
KG 2 years removed from surgery
With possibly Shaq starting and JO coming off the bench with a resting Perk and lock and loaded in June…. you can forget about the Gasol, Bynum, Odom dominance, that’s all out the door, they can’t even outmatch a healthy KG, PERK AND SHEED… much less these behemoths!!
well
he looked pretty good this last spring until he ran into the truck known as the Celtic’s defense (and apparently hurt his ankle, which probably didn’t help).
At any rate, here are the numbers, for Jermaine O’Neal head-2-head v Pau Gasol:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=onealje01&p2=gasolpa01
And then JO v Andrew Bynum:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=onealje01&p2=bynuman01
Looks to me like he hasn’t done so bad. Until Gasol joined the Lakers, JO usually owned him. His record since isn’t so good, but that is largely more a statement about Miami vs LA as teams.
But of course, as you allude to – is JO still able to do it? Are the legs gone?
He did win his last game against these guys, playing 41 minutes in a Miami win over LA last March 4. It was a defensive struggle, he only scored 13 on 5 of 13, but Gasol was held to 10 pts on 4 of 11 and Bynum only 12 on 5 of 10.
Lots of nice additions
by Ainge. Doc must find regular minutes for Nate: 20 min / game. I’d plan for 30 min/game for Allen, KG, and Pierce. I’d plan 20 min/game for Shaq, JO, and Davis. Rondo should average around 36 min/game.
It’s a long season. Use the full squad, develop a strong, deep bench, and try to win home court throughout the playoffs. By spreading out the minutes and sticking to a plan as such, you can win lots more games if the bench players PLAY.
Game 7 in L.A. was the difference. The Celtics need to secure Game 7 in every series.
Exactly. Great point
I don’t want to see either PP or RA again playing 40-42 mins in some games… If DOC can accomplish exactly or even close to what you gave them for the minutes, overall, C’s will be in darn good shape come playoff time. Homecourt is really a must this year, against the HEAT AND LAKERS. Game 7 in Boston would have been title 18, so that’s motivation to get hc this year.
Imagine if you’re a center playing against the C’s, you’re thinking, I’d play against KG and Jermaine and then subbing in would be Shaqfu… Oh hell no. lol
And, in time, Perkins
who is argueably the best defensive center in the NBA. I hope Perkins returns with 20+ games remaining in the regular season so he has conditioning time, Doc has time to integrate him into the front court rotation, and both Shaq and JO have some time to play with Perkins in the paint.
To me, JO is more like KG. And, Perkins and Shaq are more alike. Doc has a nice scenario in that he can always have a PF [KG or JO] and a C [Perkins or Shaq] in the paint or two PF [KG and JO] if a C is not necessary. I don’t see many scenarios for two C [Perkins and Shaq] at the same time.
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