Role Call: Glen Davis
by Jimmy Toscano on Sep 28, 2010 5:24 AM EDT
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Where does Glen Davis fit in on the Celtics this season? His guess is as good as yours.
With the additions of Shaquille O'Neal and Jermaine O'Neal, the Celtics boast one of the deepest front courts in the NBA, and once again Davis is relegated further down the bench.
For the fourth year forward-center, it's getting a little old.
"It's difficult," Davis said. "Because as a player you kind of don't understand where they're going, or how they're going, or what are they doing? No matter what I do - you know, I can play great - it's still not enough."
It seems as though Davis, who has always shown a lot of emotion on and off the court, takes the last two seasons' signings of Rasheed Wallace, and the O'Neal's personal.
"Coming into my second year, I did a really good job as far as becoming a better player," Davis said. "But it wasn't good enough for our team, so they went and got Rasheed Wallace. And I had to adjust again. Rasheed was more of the perimeter guy. I had to be more of the low block guy."
"You know I go from popping, hitting big shots to rolling to the basket a lot. That's what I needed to do for the team and that's what I did. Now this year we got fives [centers Shaquille O'Neal and Jermaine O'Neal], so I just have to know what my role is again this year."
What Davis fails to see is that his role on this team is quite defined actually: He's an energy guy. He does everything pretty well, and he does it with great energy and enthusiasm. What he isn't is a starter, although he'd like his role to be defined like the starters' roles on this team are.
"You want to know who you are on this team," Davis said. "[Rajon] Rondo knows he's the point guard. He's not going to go out there and try to score a thousand buckets. Ray [Allen] knows he's the shooter. Paul [Pierce] knows he's the three [small forward] guy. KG [Kevin Garnett], Perk [Kendrick Perkins], they all know their role. Their role has never changed since they've been on this team. My role has changed every year. So I just have to adjust again."
If Davis is going to play on contending teams for the rest of his career, he should get used to his role being defined as, well, undefined. Davis can't understand that his versatility and ability to play multiple positions multiple ways is something to be proud of. He will always be a superb player coming off the bench, but can he continue to accept that role?
This is a contract year for Davis, so it would make sense for him to want to see the court more. It is, after all, a business, and Davis didn't cash in the way he hoped he would prior to last season. That being said, he's not putting his own personal agenda ahead of the teams. So far, Davis has done pretty much all that has been asked of him, and claims that when he does in fact find his role on this year's team, he will accept it fully.
"The role that I would prefer to play is the role that they want me to play," Davis said. "If I have to pop, I'll pop. If I have to roll, I'll roll. Whatever I have to do I'm going to do it. That's what it's all about."
"Sacrificing yourself; sacrifice who you are for the greater good of the team. That's what I learned by playing with Doc and playing with all these veterans. I have to sacrifice myself in order to be a part of this team and I'm willing to do that."
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perhaps he needs to take that as a sign
that the team sees he has his limitations and needs to address that with offseason acquisitions.
Davis has his plusses and negatives just like any player. he needs to see that and understand it. it’s not personal (at least I’ve seen no indication of such), just the team needs to plug as many holes as possible on the roster. He happens to plug the energy ‘big’ man hole.
one other thing he needs to consider is that he hasn’t helped his cause with the reckless injury to start last year as an example. that set him back professionally both skill wise and with the team.
Agree with your comments....
when you said
“perhaps he needs to take that as a sign that the team sees he has his limitations and needs to address that with off season acquisitions”
I think you are exactly right that Baby does do some good things on the court and that he plays the energy man off the bench, but he is a limited player (especially I personally think due to his lack of length) and that the C’s have every right to solidify and add extra depth to the back up power forward position.
Every year, I hope "Baby" matures...
… and every year, he doesn’t.
He’s simply nowhere near as good as Shaq and J.O. He doesn’t have the length, and he doesn’t have the consistency. The kid gave us 6 points in 51 minutes in the last three games of the Finals.
I like BBD’s hustle, but he needs to shut his mouth.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Wow Roy...
I can’t say that I disagree at all, but I’m surprised to hear you of all people be more harsh than I had planned to be.
I can’t blame Davis for being frustrated at all, but if he stopped to appreciate that he’s on a contending team then he might be happier. In about 2 years he’ll play more minutes (for the Celtics or elsewhere). It’s also not bad to hope you are better than you are, b/c that will lead to improvement, but I see his main problem as one of him THINKING he is much better than he is. Like you said, J.O. & Shaq provide more of what the team needs now.
Ultimately Davis being vocal isn’t going to affect the starting unit, or even Shaq/J.O., so it isn’t too big of a deal to me. And I can’t say I’m surprised at what he said since he says it every year. However, I think WE talk about him too much here (and yes, I include myself). I’m hoping to see less Davis articles/posts, and more on what we realistically think Jermain O’Neal & Shaq can bring, as well as how our vets will age from last year to this year. Davis is a small piece of this contending puzzle, and as such should have a small amount dedicated to him here.
by TomHamilton30 on Sep 28, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be different if it was BBD's first complaint...
But he said the same sort of things last year, about how the team was “disrespecting” him. He then went out and broke his hand in a stupid drunken fight with a friend. He’s repeatedly talked about how the NBA is a “business”, and how he has no particular loyalty to any team, and yet he expects the team to downgrade to give him more minutes.
It gets old. If BBD could give consistent production, he’d have a consistent role. Unfortunately, BBD is constantly up and down, as witnessed by his Finals performance (great at times, very poor at others). It’s almost like he resents being asked to improve his game, when it’s clear that he’s not good enough right now.
I fully expect that this will be BBD’s last year in Boston, and if Perk comes back healthy, I think J.O. will see most of the backup PF minutes. If and when that happens, I think the reason for it will lie squarely with Baby.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I am speachless...
I grew tired of Davis quite some time ago, and have said he’s not only overrated here on the board, but in his head as well. I like that he tries, I love his hustle, and that he’s changed his role when asked to. But everything else I never liked, and I have gotten HAMMERED on here b/c that. I swear every post I’ve made that has said the exact same things that you just said Roy, I get the typical “stop posting you’re just a Davis hater”.
Like my post had said, I know he says this every year, so its not a surprise to me. Ultimately it won’t affect the team much, so it doesn’t affect me much!
Excellent post Roy, I agree with everything you wrote. I’m betting though that you won’t be called a hater.
by TomHamilton30 on Sep 28, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Agree that Baby’s lack of length and to a lesser degree his inconsistent play are 2 big problems he has.
If
If Harangody plays well I could see C’s trading Davis for another player or a draft pick
by bbeingphilled on Sep 28, 2010 9:19 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wouldn't mind that at all.
Once again he’s the one baby on the team. Makes you appreciate how guys like TA and House kept their mouths shut and didn’t try to demand the perks (no pun intended) of the starting-level players. That bit proclaiming that he and Doc will have their ups and downs is actually pretty obnoxious. The O’Neals are far better players than Baby will ever be and they aren’t whining about their roles.
Maybe....
If Harangody impresses the C’s and plays better then Baby this year then it is not impossible to say the C’s could use Baby as trade bait to get possibly the legit wing scorer and defender to play behind Pierce that they need (assuming Daniels does not impress them).
But this is again only if Harangody plays well, because the C’s need to make sure if they trade Baby they still stay 3 deep and maintain depth at the power forward position…for insurance purposes in case Kg or Jermaine suffer injury or foul trouble .
Also if Rasheed gives the C’s a heads up that he will pull a PG Brown in the spring (as is rumored by Pierce) and he comes on board, since he can play the power forward position, that would make Baby possibly more expendable and trade bait.
Agreed.
I mentioned this a few weeks back with Forsbergs column that asked if the Cs would make any trades this year. I firmly believe, assuming Harangody develops and becomes a stretch 4 for the team, Baby will be the most expendable trade bait we have. A solid contributing bench player on an expiring deal is one hell of an asset. Now if Harangody doesn’t show any ability to play the back up 4 spot, then it’s all moot obviously, as KG is going to need his rest.
But if he continues to impress, it would be far more beneficial to the team to secure a true back up 3, as insurance for Daniels, and also allowing Daniels to possibly see time at 2 guard (I’d assume by this point, Wafer is most likely gone, and West is the primary back up.)
Exactly....
contemplating trading Baby is only possible if Harangody shows the C’s he is a player and they believe he can help them more then Baby can.
If not I agree trading Baby would be a moot point because we need the depth and insurance he provides us behind KG and Jermaine (when he moves to the power forward position also once Perk comes back later in the season hopefully .
Jared Dudley!!! :D
Or Jonas Jerebko, Wilson Chandler, Omri Casspi or DAMION JAMES…
For a guy who wants to shed the nickname Big Baby...
This is exactly why I have had a tough time getting completely on board behind the guy. He is a selfish “me first” player who can’t seem to figure out this is a team game. He has an overbloated opinion of his abilities as he isn’t in the class of Sheed, JO, or Shaq. The guy is a solid bench energy player. Nothing more. He is terribly inconsistent, has flaws in his game that prevent him from ever being more than he is now, and will quite honestly be lucky to be in the league in 3-5 years as his vertical gets worse and worse and his waistband gets bigger and bigger. He should be appreciative that we gave him a chance and minutes to prove that he at least belonged on the bench. He got no interest in the free market. No one is knocking on our door asking for him in a trade. The guy has a perfect home here making more money than he should but is an ingrate. Package the guy in a deal out of town the second that Perk is back on the floor. I’m tired of the Baby…
At the end of the day...
He really does do whatever is asked of him… he comes though every time his number is called, and that is all that matters to me. If he complains once in a while or has some person problem with it, I could care less. He’s a competitor when he is on the floor, an energy guy, and I think he is a very intelligent player for his age. Is he inmature off the court? Maybe… I just think he wants a bigger role because he believes in himself and I can live with that.
I disagree...
1. It’s the job of every NBA player to do what is asked of them. 95% of players do so, without complaining about it. It’s not something that makes BBD special.
2. I disagree that he “comes through every time his number is called”. He was very up and down in terms of production in the playoffs.
BBD always plays with energy and hustle, and I appreciate that about him. However, he’s not as good as he thinks he is.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
I agree with this.
Much as I love the guy, and love his hustle and energy, he’s really not that good. He’s streaky, but maddeningly inconsistent. Ya he’ll got hot in a couple games and put up 20 (i.e. Game 4) but until he’s able to do it every night, without exception, he’ll never be more than a pretty good bench player.
And his number was called in Game 7 (Ugh… I know, I hate bringing it up too) and he certainly didn’t come through. How different that game would have been if Davis played anything like he did in Game 4…
I’ve come to rely on only one thing from Big Baby, and it’s that I just never know what I’m going to get. Baby is just not a starting talent, he’s a very good “X Factor” and as a bench player, that’s exactly what teams expect, redefine your role, do whatever the team needs.
95% is way too high
People complain a lot. Players like Bosh and KG complain when they have to play center. Dwight Howard complains when he isn’t a big enough part of the offense. LeBron complains about being expected to carry a team. It’s far from rare.
Hobbs...
1. I think a lot of players complain, but I get your point. I’d be the first to say that Baby needs to grow up.
2. I do think he “comes through.” Maybe his production was down in the playoffs, but I thought his defense was excellent at times. He takes charges and rotates extremely well on defense. The only reason he ever makes it out on the floor is because Doc trusts his defense. That is why he was favored over Leon Powe by Doc in the past.
I minorly agree with you that he is not as good as he thinks he is. He plays with arguably the best passing point gaurd in the league and he benifits from it. However, I would argue that he is a much better player than most people give him credit. For his age, he has a great IQ, he’s a good passer, and a very good defender. I think he could start for quite a few teams. He is on an extremely deep team. I would say without any hesitation that he loves the spotlight and that part can be distraction for the team, but when he is out on the floor he is a team first player.
Glen, My Man.....
…Just relax, Man!
I am a Glen Davis supporter, and have loved the energy he’s brought us over the years. The “complaining” here is, I believe, more of him just voicing his thoughts on the C’s bringing in JO and Shaq.
I hope Glen sits back and tries to look at this from Danny’s eyes – when we lost to LA, we just ran out of bigs, IMO. Perk went down, and Sheed played admirably, but in the end I think we could’ve used one (or two) more Bigs.
Well, we have that now – in JO and Shaq. But to me, even bringing those two in doesn’t diminish Glen’s role with us.
While his thoughts can be construed as complaining, I think it’s just more of him being anxious to play and prove himself once again. I hope he realizes that even with the additions of JO and Shaq, his role (and PT) won’t diminish, IMO, any time soon.
Unitl Perk comes back, we only have KG, JO, Shaq and Glen – that’s only four bigs. Semih’s coming along, and I think will make the team, but I don’t see him above Glen on the depth chart.
To me at least, he’ll definitely get some playing time in. And I don’t think that Perk will even be fully ready until near the end of the season by the time he works himself into playing shape.
In other words? I don’t see much harm in what Glen said. I know the man loves Boston, and will continue to play hard for us when needed.
And yes – we will need you Glen – all season – through the middle of June 2011. That blank Banner up on the wall needs filling in.
June 2011 Cannot Come Soon Enough.
by Celtics18and19 on Sep 28, 2010 10:29 AM EDT reply actions
he should be right behing KG
let shaq & j.o split min(24 each) let baby get 19-20 mins so kg can rest im feelin a big season from him he has to play
They will, till Perk is back.
But when Perk is back, I fully expect to see JO see some time on PF. And he should, JO is just a flat out better play than Davis, no question about it.
Baby needs to understand.....
that the signing of Rasheed last year and Jermaine this year has probably nothing to do with the C’s having a lack of confidence in Baby’s talent.
It probably has alot more to do with the C’s lack of confidence in Babys lack of length and the difficulty he has playing against longer power forwards.
Baby is a good player but he must understand that (for no fault of his own) he is a undersized power forward who has problems matching up against the longer power forwards he usually is matched up against…for example like last year in the finals when he was matched up with Gasol.
Baby must surely recognize he has problems defending , scoring and rebounding against some of the longer power forwards due to his lack of length, like when he plays Gasol …so why blame the C’s for wanting another longer power forward on the bench to help out in such situations??
So for those reasons I do not blame the C’s one bit for signing Rasheed last year or Jermaine this year as they need need a back up power forward off the bench with length when Baby has a hard time matching up against such players.
He'll get plenty of playing time
If Jermaine is as consistently “injured” as he’s been in non-contract years.
Otherwise Davis will continue to become a more well rounded player as his “role” changes.
Maybe I can't be as hard as BBD because...
…to an extent, I agree with him.
What do I mean? I mean the specific part where he said he had to be a low block guy instead of a perimeter one like he was before Rasheed came. I actually thought BBD’s game was better as a perimeter guy, and he wasn’t being torched as being fat and out of shape, like this season, when he was getting blocked in the inside. He was able to put up his jumpshot, which was serviceable enough to make teams pay if they weren’t willing to guard him at times. Maybe that got to him; the idea that he was being forced into a role that I’m not sure suits him so well in the NBA like it did in college, and people telling him he didn’t put in the work to help the team in the process. Who knows?
That said, I think it’s safe to assume that BBD will get his role in the perimeter back with Shaq at backup center, and thus, he needs to show that’s the role that’s right for him, and should have kept when Sheed came. He can’t make excuses now.
I think this is an accurate assessment.
In a 5 man unit of:
Shaq
BBD
Daniels / Harangody
Wafer / West
Nate
BBD will be expected to play out away from the basket, leaving that for Shaq.
With last year’s lineup, we often had Daniels or Tony at the 2 – and neither of them presented a 3PT threat that could spread the floor. Thus we HAD to pop Sheed out to the perimeter to help create space, which meant BBD was the post guy. We will never be expecting Shaq to play outside the paint longer than it takes to reset the 3-second clock!
Much the reaction posted here seems as emotional as BBD’s comments – maybe more so.
If Baby feels he is more comfortable ...
playing out in the perimeter (especially on offense) then that’s fine… maybe Doc can adjust rotations and game plays to get Baby out on the perimeter more this season to help his game.
But Baby saying he wants to get out of the post and be out on the perimeter more, seems to me that he is basically admitting he has a hard time playing in the post …probably due to the fact Baby is a undersized power forward and has a hard time matching up against the longer power forwards he is usually matched up against in the low post.
If so then Baby should not be blaming the C’s who want to have a long back up power forward on the bench (like Rasheed last year and Jermaine this year) who can be a legit low post power forward to match up against longer power forwards he can not physically match up well against.
Is he 'blaiming' anyone?
Expressing a bit of frustration at one’s situation is not the same as blaming anyone.
Who is to say that Davis is not just frustrated at his own limitations?
Whatever. Folks over-analyze these things. Gawd I can’t wait for the season to just get under way.
Well Baby did not come out and outright blame the C's...
It seems (to me at least) that when Baby made the comments he was indirectly speaking in code that he blames the C’s for signing Rasheed and Jermaine instead of sticking with just him as the sole back up power forward off the bench.
Which I think would of been a good move for Baby personally, but not a wise move by the C’s as a team since Baby is a undersized back up power forward that has a hard time matching up against longer power forwards.
I see the C’s wanting to have a legit long back up power forward on the bench to match up against the bigger power forwards Baby can not match up against as a smart and common sense move to make that Baby should not question.
Is he really questioning it?
I don’t see him anywhere in his comments questioning whether those moves were good for the team or not.
Taken literally (and I see no reason not to do so) he’s just expressing his frustration over the uncertainty of his own personal role. Big deal.
Its my opinion he is questioning it ...
Now this year we got ……….Jermaine O’Neal], so I just have to know what my role is again this year.
My comments above did not fully get posted correctly so I will try again....
Its my opinion he is questioning it ….(again not out right) but in code when Baby makes comments like says:
“Coming into my second year I did a really good job as far as becoming a better player…but it was not good enough for our team, so they went and got Rasheed’
also when he says:
“Now this year we got ……….Jermaine O’Neal], so I just have to know what my role is again this year”
Again by making those comments Baby looks as if he is bitching and sending messages to the C’s that he is unhappy about the Rasheed and Jermaine signings and how it effects his role and play for the team.
I could be wrong but that’s my opinion on matter.
Davis can be consistent offensively...
…when he’s given the PT – he showed that 2 season’s ago when KG went down. That is most likely why he is so frustrated, he knows he can put up numbers and wants to be relied upon to do so.
The problem with Davis is that he is entitled – constantly having to be pushed to do the things that other players understand and do willingly. Davis has tremendous talent and I don’t doubt he could be a 17/8 guy if he played 35 mpg or more as a feature PF.
But his limitations and the available talent options around him are just superior to who he is – he’s got 3 HoF caliber talents ahead of him on the depth chart for a title contending team….reality check time baby…
The fact that they took Harangody in the draft and bolstered their frontcourt depth short-term should be a big time wakeup call for Davis – he is far from expendable and he hasn’t proven he’s the “PF of the future” by any stretch.
by BillfromBoston on Sep 28, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions
While I like BBD ....he can only hurt himself by continuing to flap his mouth before the season has even started
not too bright…..didn’t he just say he has matured?
Is it Soup Yet?
Dumb, dumb, dumb...
I mean, I can understand Big Baby Davis being frustrated, but what the hell? Talk to your coach about it (with the door closed), work on your game to prove you deserve to be the primary backup at the 4, bitch and moan to yo’ mama….
But dude. It’s Media Day. Beginning of camp. Is Davis too stupid to realize how selfish these comments make him look?
Crap, this team is old. Someone’s bound to get hurt. Davis can earn himself opportunities. There are plenty of minutes to be had behind KG right now, and if he plays well enough there’s nothing locked in stone that says JO must get all of those minutes when Perk returns. If and when someone gets hurt, there will be opportunities for extended playing time.
But, just shut your damn mouth! Nobody wants to hear you whine!
It’s official, I am revoking “Big Game Davis” as his nickname, he’s back to being “Big Baby.”
Uno-Uno!!! needs to get down to 260 before he can start claiming his turf
Once Baby shows his commitment to becoming an all-star [which he has the talent for] by getting into at the very least Zach Randolph shape, then I will be comfortable with him complaining, but not publicly. After witnessing Perk transform his body over his first 4 years and continuing to lose weight and gain speed and athleticism, I am disappointed that we have not seen that kind of progress from Baby [although to give him credit he has improved a bit]. While Baby’s analysis of his role is pretty much correct, his analysis of the situation was poor. He wants to do everything in the post for us, but he is not a center and that is the most important position on D. Getting these backup centers over the years were not a critique of his offensive skill [which is bolstered with Shaq’s presence, as it will open up the weak side paint for Baby to dominate and draw double teams which Shaq is masterful of passing out of], but rather addressing his lack of length and shot altering ability on D. While Baby is one of the best rebounders per inch in the league [especially on the offensive glass], his lack of length leaves us vulnerable when he is at the 5. Despite having competition, Baby has always been our 6th man and I think he will continue to be this year, although with Garnett likely to have a 25 MPG cap, Baby will probably become a pseudo-starter.
So shut up Baby and lose some weight, then you can earn the minutes. Obviously the thumb surgery took his shot away last year, so if that’s back he’s going to establish himself easily. Baby is ignoring the enormous benefit playing with Shaq will be, and once he starts playing alongside him and is getting one on one layups as opposed to trying to draw a foul in the middle of a defensive collapse on him, he’ll start drooling all over Danny.
by I Love Getting Rondo'd on Sep 28, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions
By the way I love Baby
As much of a pain in the…gluteus maximus…as he can be, everyone here has to admit that they love him to death.
by I Love Getting Rondo'd on Sep 28, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
Don’t agree at all. BBD doesn’t have STARTING skills on most teams in the NBA let alone All-Star skills. There are so many holes in his game it is ridiculous. He may get a few rebounds on the offensive side of the ball, however to call him one of the best rebounders per inch is a terrible stretch. He’s a good offensive rebounder, weak defensive one. Once he gets the offensive rebound he gets blocked or misses more than anything else so the net result isn’t much. His outside shooting is very over-rated. He is mediocre at best. His perimeter defense is terrible. His post defense very good. Let’s not make BBD into a superstar that is allowed to throw this kind of tantrum. He’s a role player, nothing more.
The guy obviously lacks true confidence. He sounds like he is trying to convince himself. If you want to see the way to handle it look at Perk. Blunt and to the point. There is no debate. When I get back it is my spot. THAT’S a man who believes in his abilities. BBD deep down knows he isn’t good enough and that there is justification for bringing these guys in. Otherwise he wouldn’t worry.
someone needs to remind him about the start of last season
where he missed all of it and the Cs had to play Williams.
I think his minutes are going to be contested
by Harangody on the “perimeter/small PF” end and by Semih on the “big PF” end.
I think he’ll get traded.
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
If Semih Erden has so much of a prayer of contesting BBD's minutes
Then I’ll be very pleased with Erden. But, something tell me you’re just downplaying BBD to justify your argument as opposed to hyping up Harangody or Semih because of what BBD said.
Love Big Baby
I really hope Baby finds another team soon where he’ll be appreciated.
I found Doc’s words, in reply, extremely condescending and rude towards Baby. If this is how Baby always gets treated by his coach, it’s time to move. BBD has been first man off the bench since he joined the team and has sacrificed his body and his dignity playing for people who don’t appreciate him. You’ve got to remember, at his age, pride is very important personally, and Doc’s words show his true colors. Doc’s patronizing attitude toward Baby is very unprofessional.
On another note, Baby is young, playing for one of the best teams in the NBA, and that just goes to show how valuable he’s been, considering so many bench players here who rarely saw any playing time. He could easily be a starter for another team and needs to be to develop his game and yes, his role. He is wasting his valuable 10-15 year window of playing time in the NBA on a team where he is not allowed to develop.
I don’t blame him at all for voicing his concerns. And I don’t consider it whining – rather it is hoisting his flag up to let the coach and potential coaches know what’s on his mind.
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