Celtics Offense: In Transition

you can’t blame losses in a series to any one player; However, if Ray had played to at least his average this series wouldn’t have been close.

Game 7 came down to a stalling offense and horrible, horrible officiating late in the 4th. I think they did wear down bc of the lack of depth last year esp Ray. That’s why I think Delonte West and Von Wafer are so important. West can def spell Ray for more than just a couple mins and can hit the open shot. Ray won’t need to run with the second unit any more. Rebounding will be shored up w the O’neal bros.

Starting the 4th I wish Doc would have let Big Baby and Nate play some of that fourth out. They were good enough to win one game in the 4th and he never really gave them a shot. I think it would’ve provided the starters some much needed rest to finish out the game.

I think Danny has done an excellent job address really all our the holes from last year. We’re really deep which means less mins for starters, better rebounding, and hopefully some much needed easy bucket scoring when the O stalls in Shaq.

Doc needs to trust his bench players and get them involved and playing more mins early in the season.

I had not really thought in terms of our need to re-kindle the offense. This article makes a compelling case. Our lack of offensive efficiency, especially vs. the Lakers, is attributed to lack of offensive rebounding, lack of defensive rebounding (which hurts the running game) and our poor free throw shooting from starters Rondo and Perkins. The replacement of the ONeal boys for Perk is a wash at the line, so here is hoping Rondo improves.

Which is why he’s brought in 4 guys to improve our two weakest offensive positions—center and backup 2/3. Will it help? A lot of it has to do with what Doc gets (or wants to get) out of those guys and how much we can incorporate them into our defense without losing effectiveness on that end.

Tom, I would have liked to have seen a little blame go Doc’s way in this article. He has been coaching the offense for his entire tenure and regardless of his personnel, whether it’s laden with HOFers or rookies, it has been consistently middle of the road in terms of efficiency and the propensity to turn the ball over. We can understand it when we’re putting 1st and 2nd year players, but how come we continue to run such a mediocre offense even when the Big 3 come to town?

an inside game. Danny knows the dependable inside game is what is needed. Shaq will give them that.

I really think Doc ran the starters into the ground, especially Ray(as he has since Ray was aquired). The bench led us to several victories, but Doc didn’t seem to trust them in game 7. We were ahead by 13 in the 3rd, and then it was pretty obvious that the starters just ran out of gas. With the depth that we will have next year, I hope Doc trusts them a little more.

You can take it all the way back to Game 5, where we needed a superhuman effort from our bench (remember the Shrek & Donkey show?) to pull out the win.

Our starting 5 offense is stagnant and predictable. The blueprint for stopping it is clear; faceguard Ray & jump out hard on all pick/rolls. We just don’t get any easy shots in the half court anymore.

The only way this starting 5 can change that is by Rondo becoming the teams leading scorer. It won’t happen though if he is still afraid of the 15’ jumper & shooting sub 70% from the line.

His FT shooting alone, to me, is the key to us getting back to the Finals. Anything less than 75% = an early exit.

Sometimes when opportunity knocks you have to take advantage of it because it will not be there long.Thats what happened with the Celtics,they allowed the Lakers to breathe new life by not stepping on them in game 6.Maybe it was over when they lost game6.If the Celtics were in the same position on their own court,would they have let the Lakers regroup and take game 6,i doubt it.Paul,KG,and Ray would have been like sharks,once they took game 6 the writing would have been on the wall.Hopefully a lesson has been learned by both players and coach.I hold Doc partially at fault for them losing game 7 but there shoudn’t have been a game 7 if they had taken care of business.

It does feel like a combination of factors. I’m worried about all of these things, especially offensive rebounding; seemed lime we had little even with Perk healthy. I really like, almost love our bench, and Doc should lean on them. Here’s hoping.

Realistically, their offense lost it for them, Perk out and the refs helped, but at many points last season and in the playoffs their offense was too stagnant.
The remedy: the deepest bench in the league, using matchups and different rotations to keep teams guessing. We have a legitimate threat in positions 1-12, use them, throw out different combinations of bench players, but most importantly play the bench big minutes. With the quality subs we have, and the depth we can afford to experiment this year, even if it costs us a few games (not like we arent making the playoffs).
Doc needs to grow some and try something no team has tried before, if you have 2 separate units (with starting calibre players on both units) and split the time between them, you can build 2 quite cohesive units that know and trust eachother, and both units can stay fresh enough to play full steam the whole time.
Think outside the box, for instance(after Perk returns, to gear ups for the playoffs)
1st Q
starting 5 the whole quarter
rondo
ray
paul
kg
perk
2nd quarter
nate
west
quisy
baby
shaq (playing the enforcer role, not giving teams an inch and bangin people to the floor, all the way hard for 12 min)
3rd quarter
starters for the first 8 min
then a rotation of
west/nate
wafer/bradley/west
quisy/wafer
baby
JO (full steam for 12 min)
have this unit take you 4 min into the 4th Q
and have your starters take you home

you could totally keep your starters minutes down to 24-26 min a night, which may not be a bad idea for positions 2-5.
Tell me why this would not work, you telling me that our team could not go hard every night for just 24 min, or it is not talented enough to do it? The only reaso why this would not work is doc would be hesitant to ride the bench so much, but it is worth a shot. Keeping everyones minutes down, and 2 injury prone aging bigmen down to 12 min.
This could so work.

Anyway you slice it, though i dont agree that the defense should be focused on less, i do think the offense and matchups should be focused on more. Some changes need to be made as we cannot just ride the offense of the big 3 as they are not all as much of a threat as they used to be, but with fresher legs at the end of a game, what a threat each and everyone of them can be.

let’s not forget those 23 offensive rebounds for the Lakers in game 7. That’s not exactly superb defense – and it’s hard to score more than 79 points when you don’t control the ball on the defensive end to give you possessions (that you then give back to the other team via tip-ins, increasing the lead).

Pierce becoming purely a jumpshooter over the last season didn’t help matters either – we need that second guy out there that can get to the hoop when a play has broken down and the shot clock is close to running out. Ron Artest played a huge role in Pierce taking mostly jumpers in the Finals, but I didn’t see much slashing to the hoop from him last year anyway.

Hopefully the new bigs will mean more rebounds, more scoring inside, and more fouls on the other teams’ bigs.

Celtics pride themselves in their defense; a defense that has won one pennant in 24 years.Conclusion; we keep the other teams from scoring a lot, but they still score enough to keep us from winning. 1 in 24 is not a good record; I think we should try to score more points. We have a PG and a 5 that cant score nor make foul shots when it counts. We have not been able to win more than 1 pennant. With that makeup so has been missing for 24 years. O yes, we have done better that the Clippers and Minn. and Memphis, etc. in that time frame. The team that scores the most points in crunch time usually wins. Lets concentrate on that. Nothing shameful in scoring more points. We need more scoring. period.

 I hope they run the offense through Shaq. I don’t think the Cavaliers used Shaq in the right way. Shaq on the block warrants a double team every time. If you get Shaq the ball on the block it will open up everything. The Big Shamrock would touch the ball in the paint every time down the floor if I was Doc. That will free up passing lanes and really make the half court offense deadly, add Rondo running the floor and working his magic and I really believer with the type of defense that this team is capable of playing, no one in the league can match up with the Celtics this season. Everyone seems to think that Shaq is old and washed up, I think he is going to be a force, Shag and K.G. in the paint is a night mare to match up with. Just some random thoughts.

Perkin’s absence directly impacted the minutes in the big man rotation, most importantly for KG & Sheed. Regardless of whether Perk is ‘better’ or not than Sheed – if healthy he would have provided both minutes and fouls to give that simply were not available.

Both those guys subsequently got completely gassed and used up all but one of their fouls.

One might note also that tired players tend to be slower and thus commit more slappy fouls – that had to have been a contributor to the huge foul disparity in the 4Q.

Yes, there are numerous other things where you could easily say, “If only X had happened, we would have won!” But I have zero doubt in my mind that if Perk had been on the floor instead of on the bench in street clothes that the Celtics would have won.

In the 5 games he played in, they were up 3-2 and won the rebounding battle in those three wins (including one on the road). Perk’s absence was by far the biggest factor in the final 2 games. You just can’t ignore that elephant.

That said – I think it is clear that Danny has worked to try to address some specififics outlined in this article. Clearly, the signing of the two O’Neals (and working to develop Erden and Harangoty) goes directly towards having MUCH more depth in the big men. And both JO & Shaq provide upgraded post offense and Harangody, Wafer, Robinson and West all provide improved outside shooting off the bench. And those upgrades come with no decrease in the existing primary offensive weapons.

Defensively, the starting unit should be very close to what it was last year, with JO replacing Perk – I still expect them to be among the very best defensive 5-man units in the NBA. The bench, with Shaq in the post may be more vulnerable to the high pick & roll, but will be harder to physically post up with Shaq & Shrek and the perimeter defense will have a tremendous amount of man-to-man speed in Robinson, Wafer, Daniels, West & Bradley. The bench should also be good at converting transition opportunities with all that speed. If they play with discipline and execute the team defense, the bench should be pretty effective.

Perkins played in the 2 losses as well. So I’m not sure that alone guaranteed a win.

I give the Lakers credit for hanging around in every single game. Double digit leads were brought back to striking distance every time. They never lost their composure. They were never out of any game. And it paid off for them.

Even the Celtic wins weren’t knock outs. And except for game 6 neither were the Lakers’ win.

Would Perkins have alleviated some minutes stress? Absolutely. Would that have guaranteed a win? I’m not so sure. The team simply did not respond well in game 6.

So, again, I would say multiple factors were in play.

Several major factors people are overlooking, first injurys over the season slowed the Celtics down a lot, and they never got back completely their energy level by playoff time. Second KG had a major operation the year before, and you cant fully recover after 6 months of inactivity, to your former playing level. Finally the bench was running players in and out, due to player troubles, and more injurys all season. All that should be corrected a the start of this season. I look for the Celtics to win 60 games, and the championship this season, if they can avoid the rash of injurys that plauged them last year. They may be older, but they have more experiance than any team in the NBA.

Celtics has one thing that they did not have last year, something that will make the offense better. POST PRESENCE.

Perk was never a post presence which in turn gave defenders confidence to stay on their man outside the paint areas. Even KG was only a jump shooting threat last year. This is were the acquisition of the Oneal Bro’s comes in a really huge way.

Shaq, albeit pre-historic and all WOULD STILL COMMAND double teams, giving Pierce, Allen, Nate, West, Wafer, even KG and Baby, whoever he is playing with, OPEN FOR SHOTS. With this, Pierce does not have to create his own shot, Ray does not have to run all over the floor. KG can stay mid range until he fully recovers and get that confidence to go body to body inside again.

Jermaine on the other hand, might not be able to get that much double teams but will so eventually as he is still playing effectively inside. One way or the other defenses will collapse to Jermaine, if he somehow can anticipate this and finds open men outside, KABAAM!

The most important thing that this gives to us. This gives defenses confusion by the time Rondo slices through the lane. Teams last year are more than happy to commit to a driving Rondo because Perk is not that much of a good finisher. With Jermaine and Shaq in the paint, it’ll put the defense on “should I help with Rajon”, which will open the Oneal’s, or “should I stay with Shaq/JO”, which will give Rondo a clearer path to the basket.

With shooters on both 1st and 2nd unit and a low post presence, something Sheed, Perk and now KG did not have (you gotta admit, although Sheed catches the ball down low, he’d rather pull a fade away, hence making the defense not to worry inside). There will be more open shots FOR CAPABLE SHOOTERS than last year’s. Something TA didn’t have and that made defenses not to commit to double teams down low.

For me it’s all about how Doc gives the minutes. I admit this is an old team and minutes played will make or break us. If Doc relies heavy on the starters again then we’ll end up losing again. The 1st and 2nd unit is so capable on both sides, 30mpg for the Big Three (and maybe Rajon) will be more than enough. It’ll keep the team fresh. Doc should trust the bench more. The 2nd unit of Shaq, Baby, Von/Quis, Lebron’s Step Dad/Bradley, Nate can win games on their own. And most of these off the bench are out to prove something, giving them the confidence that they will give 110% everytime they step on the floor. I believe this is the key, along with that defense. Offense will be okay. It wont be like the Warriors’ or the Suns’ caliber of scoring, but it will be good enough.

right after we lost and even while we were losing I kept saying it was our offense and not our defense. Doc has to shoulder some of that responsibility but Doc couldn’t make Ray’s jumper fall. When we are going good Rondo doesn’t have to score but when we struggle to score as we did last year in the playoffs then rondo has no choice but to carry us. to me Pierce’s inability to score against artest and ray’s inability to exploit the fisher matchup are what cost us the title. I think it was a combination of age, fatigue and good laker defense. It seemed like all year we could never get on the same page offensively and that’s what happened in the Finals. even when we had a lead in game 7 you knew that a scoring drought was coming and sure enough it did. that was the pattern all of last year. Doc became like Casey JOnes running his starters into the ground as the playoffs wore on. he can’t do that again this year.Our reboudning should be better but without perk our defense is going to be worse. Overall our bench should be better especially if Daniels can reclaim his game. I’m not sure I will ever count on ray allen again though. I think he choked.

Pierce is our go to guy but he doesn’t bring it every night. that was proven in games 6 and 7. Ditto for Ray. If we win a title this year it has to be as a team and I think that means we have to change our style of play to accomodate the O Neal brothers. Shaq is not going to run the floor in transition. JO might but none of our big men including Perk are fleet of foot. So we need to have more of a post game than we’ve had in the past. Having a post presence should make it easier for pierce, ray and KG to score. having delonte, robinson and bradley should also open things up. I would have loved getting a shooter like mike miller but that didn’t happen. the problem as i see it is that while our frontcourt now matches up better against the lakers, they still have better wing players and defenders than we do and they also signed blake to help them in the backcourt. Barnes and Blake plus the rookies they got are all good moves for them. But at the end of the day the Lakers still have a star in Kobe and the Heat have 2 stars in wade and King who can get their own shot. We don’t have that type of player on our squad any more.

We no longer have a star caliber player on our team.

Pierce is our go to guy but he doesn’t bring it every night. that was proven in games 6 and 7. Ditto for Ray. If we win a title this year it has to be as a team

Our former all-stars games have dropped off, but they’re still good, and occasionally have flashback great games. Rondo must be more consistent. We now have better depth than we’ve had in a very long time. If we win it all, as you say, it’ll be as a team. There might not be all that much a drop off when we substitute this year. If we win it all, this will be a little reminiscent of when Detroit beat the Lakers a while back. I think it can be done. The Lakers road to the finals is easier than ours, but if we make it back, I think we beat them this time. With the ONeals, and hopefully Perk back, we don’t get killed on the boards this year, and we have better reserve shooters too. Would love to face off against the Lakers again.

you have hit on one of the underlying themes and it is somewhat of a preposterous one.

Can we really say that there are no longer any star caliber players on this team? That is a ridiculous thought. Have we played into ‘too much balance’ and it looks that way? Has age really reduced them to that?

I’m waiting for someone to defend the opposite point of view. It screams for defending (no pun intended).

Since Doc’s first days I’ve been saying they have no plan on offense. It works for them most times, but when you have to fall back on something,, handing the ball to Pierce to dribble down clock at half court is not a PLAY! When they need to< they have no plays to create a shot that consistantly work. Like the old days, they should have 1 set play for each star, that they can fall back on in a jam.

While I do agree that the offense (or lack of it) was one reason why another banner won’t be raised yet, it’s not the biggest reason. Inability to secure rebounds and running out of energy the biggest reasons the Celtics lost game 7. Both of these reasons aggravated the heck out of me. Boston maybe old, but LA is older. Why couldn’t we outlast them?
More to the point, it wasn’t as if Kobe and Com were on fire in game7. LA outscored Boston because they were given an abundance of opportunities. After a while it was – and did caught up them.

Could Boston have rebounded better even without Perk? Well if Kevin Garnett wasn’t trying to reach with one hand, yeah maybe they could have. No I’m not putting on KG, it was only an example. There was very little boxing out. The loss was a result of lack of height, length and (in the end) energy. Every time Boston clamped down on defense and Gasol managed to retrieve the ball and score I cringed. Kendrick Perkins would have made the difference.