KG Returns in a Back and Forth Win Against the Magic
by Fafnir on Jan 17, 2011 10:54 PM EST
in Boston Celtics Games
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This game was intense on both sides of the ball. KG got chippy early and the rest of the two teams picked it right up from there. The Celtics jumped out to an early lead on some hot shooting, building it to double digits in the first quarter.
Then the subs checked into the game. Ryan Anderson had a mini run pretty much by himself against Glen Davis and Luke Harangody. From then on the game was the back and forth affair that you'd expect from the last two Eastern Conference representatives in the Finals.
My final note before the jump, I missed watching KG play on this team. My favorite player is Paul Pierce, but the team just plays differently when KG is out there. He made a huge steal and got it up court to a streaking Ray Allen, that steal essentially won the game by milking 10 seconds off the clock and getting Ray Allen at the line up 3.
More notes and my thoughts on the Magic/Celtics match up after the jump.
- Dwight Howard is a lot scarier prospect when he shoots 72% from the free throw line. He's on a bit of a hot streak from the line and hopefully for the rest of the league he regresses to his career mean. If he can hit 70% that's a lot more points for Orlando from an already efficient scorer.
- Despite Howard's guady stat line Shaq does a very good job on him in single coverage. Solid game from the Big Shamrock
- Ryan Anderson is a solid offensive player. He abused the Celtics early for 14 quick points in the first half, as Doc noted in a time out the broadcast shared most of those were from Celtics mistakes. After that torrid start they held him to little offensive impact beyond some big offensive rebounds.
- Gilbert Arenas is playing like the Orlando's version of Nate Robinson, except he is paid like an all-nba player. I still don't understand that move from the Magic. They could have just benched Rashard to play Anderson/Bass more.....
- Jason Richardson was a major defensive liability against Ray Allen and overall. Late in the game in particular he gave up several open jump shots to Ray, fouled KG on a legal screen giving the C's 2 FTA, and in his worst possession fouled Paul Pierce on an upfake that resulted in a three point play.
- The Celtics shot 60% from the field, and Orlando only shot 46%. But the eFG% was much closer because Orlando hit 8 more threes than Boston. eFG% for Boston was 62% and 53%. A much smaller margin which when combined with +7 offensive rebounds and +5 points from the free throw line (in 10 more attempts) kept Orlando in the game.
- I still don't think Orlando can beat Miami or Boston in a seven game series, not if everyone on both sides is healthy. Kendrick Perkins allows us to keep Gody on the bench all game and shores up some of those offensive rebounds. We can't get him back soon enough with Jermaine potentially gone for a long time.
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how many fouls called on us vs them
Shaq just breathes on people and gets a foul….he gets ripped off every game
Is it Soup Yet?
+1
Spit up my drink,soo true. Lol
by nanaluvsball on Jan 17, 2011 11:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
24 fouls on us to 21 on them .. but
36 FREE THROWS to just 26 for us!
Refs have a sneaky way of controlling when they call PFs to cause that disparity.
nice win
but our rebounding problems remain.
by friedgreentomatoes on Jan 17, 2011 10:57 PM EST reply actions
Really?
We grabbed more defensive rebounds than they did: 24 to 21.
Yes, they did grab more offensive rebounds, 13 to 6, but that’s largely due to the fact that they MISSED a hell of a lot more shots – they shot 45.9% while we shot 60%.
We rebounded just fine, now that KG is back.
by mmmmm on Jan 17, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i was more impressed with a couple key posessions in the 4th Q and late 3rd Q
when the scores were pretty close and the C’s couldn’t grab defensive rebounds. We gave the magic 2nd or even 3rd opportunities down the stretch.
by friedgreentomatoes on Jan 17, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
but that's going to happen
sometimes the ball just doesn’t bounce your way.
For the season, our rebounding percentage’s are just fine – among the best in the league. They dropped a little while KG was out, but they’ll crawl right back now that he’s back.
Also keep in mind that Orlando is the best rebounding team in the NBA so overall we did just fine on the boards.
were the worst rebounding team in the league. dead last. mostly due to us getting back on defense being more important than rebounding. also were old as the day is long. but huge gutsy win. we can’t guard the 3 point line (see the knicks earlier this season) but we seem to edge these teams out when were playing balanced ball.
by Schmutzig75 on Jan 17, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
how are you measuring 'worst rebounding team'?
Rebounding totals are a worthless measure of how good a team is at rebounding.
The only halfway decent measure is defensive rebounding percentage – and by that, the C’s are doing very well, thank you. They are 9th at 75.1% (statistically in a tie with 5 other teams for 5th). Orlando is 1st at 77.6%. Note that before KG went out, we were ranked 3rd and should get back there if he stays healthy.
+1
agreed, everyone keeps looking at ORs, but this team made the conscious decision to get their guys back on defense 1st and forgo a battle for ORs. Makes sense when you consider: a) you don’t wanna get in a track meet with younger, more athletics teams, and b) your halfcourt defense is the best in the league, why wouldn’t you wanna set it up and force teams to play against it.
- JoeB
The Magic grabbed
32% of available offensive rebounds, the Celtics only grabbed 21%. That’s still getting your butts kicked on the boards on both sides of it.
You can't compare ORBs on each end. They are simply apples and oranges.
On the Magic end, the C’s grabbed 2/3 of all the rebounds – that’s decent against the best rebounding team in the NBA. More importantly they forced the Magic to shoot less than 50% on that end, creating chances to grab those rebounds.
On our end – the C’s as a rule are indifferent about offensive rebounds. They’ll take ’em when they are easy, but their #1 priority after they put a shot in the air is to get back on transition D. This has been and will continue to be their strategy. This works because their #1 priority on offense is to take the highest percentage shot they can – which results in relatively few chances for offensive rebounds.
Very true. This strategy of passing off offensive rebounds...
has been the strategy of heavily defensive-minded teams (and older teams) of the recent past. Maybe the first team (other than the C’s) that comes up to my mind is the Spurs. I don’t exactly know if that is still their philosophy this season because their offensive strategy changed into a more up-tempo one recently, but it sure help them win titles in the past.
The presence older or slower players (just like Shaq and Perk, etc.) make this a perfect adjustment since you can’t risk being outnumbered on the break. Besides, this strategy benefits teams come playoff time where the pace is much slower.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jan 18, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
*The presence OF
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jan 18, 2011 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
agree. We need some bigs with defensive rebounding. It is going to get us in the playoffs
by vgarcia890 on Jan 17, 2011 11:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Great execution down the stretch
Solid win tonight for the Celtics. It was great to see them execute down the stretch on both ends and close out the game.
KG played great especially for being his first game back. Big Baby was so much more effective going inside instead of just settling for jumpers. Ray continued his recent torrid shooting, helping to stem the tide when Orlando was hitting 3’s.
How could the Celtics shoot so well and still be in a nail biter? Orlando had a big advantage from the line in the first half but wound up only with a 5 point edge for the game. The main culprit was the C’s terrible 3 point defense with Orlando having a 21 point advantage. The rotations were slow all night which was strange especially when knowing it’s Orlando’s greatest strength. The worst part is Howard had a dominant game due to single coverage which is fine, but that should have meant that the C’s were concentrating on defending the 3 which wasn’t the case. The Celtics will definitely have to improve their perimeter defense against this team especially if they meet in the playoffs again.
Overall a great home win marked by the return of KG. With Perk and Delonte getting closer, this team could really be starting to take shape…
Yes, when KG was back in the game for the stretch
he makes a huge difference because his defense in the paint allows the perimeter defenders to stay outside with their man.
Agree 100%
Its great to see the C’s excuting properly at the end of the game tonight.
That was a problem for them at times last year but so far this year they seem to be doing a better job closing out games on both ends of the court.
When BBD is on Howard
we often had one of our wings drop in for help on him – this is what is exposing a free perimeter shooter on the pass-out. ’Most games we can get back out to contest the shot in time. But its a gamble and when the other team shoots lights out from afar there is not a lot you can do.
That shot by Turk – totally defended and he’s fading away from way outside the arc. Nothing you can do there … except have Ray answer it, which he did.
Glad to see the Big 3 finish the game!
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." - Vince Lombardi
It was 5 vs. 6.5
… and Cs still won. Soooo many bogus calls! No matter.
So how long was it gonna be before KG was up to speed again?? 0 games! How great was it just to see him out there.
Ray still awesome, PP tough as nails, great effort by the starters and Baby, Quis, etc.
+1
Does Dwight Howard have to take 8 steps for them to call a travel? But yeah the Celtics played great and KG didn’t miss a beat. The first 5 minutes were probably the on of the best I ever seen the Celtics play as far as passing. The execution and movement was exquisite
by OsirusCeltics on Jan 17, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Great game!
Wouldn’t be so happy if we lost.
Impressed with the Magic, not impressed with the refs. Dwight’s looking pretty good right now, too bad I am compelled to hate his guts.
Paul and Ray really brought it home on offense, KG on defense. I thought Shaq played pretty well too considering he was getting screwed on quite a few calls.
i respect howard as a player.. but his constant laughing and smiling is soo aggravating...
by jbuell719 on Jan 17, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yep I just don’t dig the whole Dwight package. Or the elbows, although he actually seemed to have those under control tonight for the most part.
by Berkcelt on Jan 17, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He smiles while talking the same trash that people criticize KG for
KG just doesn’t smile for the cameras.
KG makes a huge difference when on the court!
KG, heart & soul!!!
I thought Big Baby was huge (pun intended) tonight (off the bench)
I thought Nate was very marginal….
Is it Soup Yet?
Nate is going to play himself right out of the rotation if Delonte comes back in good shape. Don’t give up on him yet though. I think the main thing he has to do is make shots. He’s getting a lot of looks, he’s paid to score, so just do it.
I think once Delonte comes back...
and Nate moves back to the 2 and can concentrate soley on shooting the ball he will be fine.
Thats the big thing of getting Delonte back, as the C’s do not just get a solid player back in Delonte but it will also help improve Nates game as well.
Very true
Or he will keep playing himself out of the rotation (and make way for the Cookie). So either way it’s a win.
by SpecialKxm107 on Jan 17, 2011 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
He looks like he is coming around (defensively too). Didn’t play one minute tonight tho (at least I don’t remember him in there). Once Doc sees Nate start bricking shots he should pull him and let Cookie get some run.
by SpecialKxm107 on Jan 17, 2011 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I personally feel much more comfortable with Von spotting up for open 3’s over Nate. While his shot hasn’t been falling consistently (could be a lack of consistent minutes and confidence), you can tell he’s a great shooter. Anytime he gets to the line, he barely catches any iron, most of them are nothing but net.
I also think part of the reason he hasn’t been able to hit his outside shots on a consistent basis can be contributed to playing with Nate as the PG. He doesn’t have the ability to get his teammates clean looks. While Delonte isn’t a pure point either, he’s shown the ability in the past to find the open man and put them in a good situation to score.
Always room to improve
Pessimism shouldn’t be confused with pointing out things the C’s need to work on.
For example they were again terrible in giving up so many offensive rebounds especially in the 4th quarter. Orlando got several second and third chance opportunities because of it. It’s obviously an ongoing problem but hopefully Perk will help that…
Poor Gody, where are the Raps when you need them!
by Berkcelt on Jan 17, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Celtics stole it FROM THE REFS
….see? that’s the story here….. Cs steal one… geezz
Refs were awful
Our guys get called for the tickiest of ticky tack fouls while our guys get mugged and no whistle. Whistles finally became balanced in the fourth, and of course we pull ahead.
by KY Celts fan on Jan 17, 2011 11:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
take it easy!
steal…as in KG steals the pass at the end. remember, journalists love stupid puns.
by guy incognito on Jan 18, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
That was close....
Great game to watch as it had a playoff atmosphere to it for sure.
KG and Ray deserve to share the game ball as both players solid play helped propel the C’s to victory.
Ray hit some clutch shots and KG looked especially great and showed no ill effects from his leg injury.
He was very active, was talking his trash and looked very fluid on the court
I loved the way the C’s set the tone early in the game when they were pounding the ball in the low post with the help of Shaq who had some nice power offensive moves.
Though he got the big basket at the end of the game Pierce struggled as Hedo’s length seemed to be giving him problems tonight.
As we get closer to the playoffs this game was sort of a statement game as the C’s did what they had to do which was defend there home turf and win the game.
as quiet as he was all night
Pierce was actually very active defensively – Hedo shot only 4 of 11 – and one of those shots was that ridiculous prayer fadeaway 3 from half court (practically).
And you gotta give the Captain props for that awesome ‘and 1’ play at his sweet spot! That was Trademark.
Turgey usually turtles
against the Captain.
by SpecialKxm107 on Jan 17, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda thought Pierce should have ran out on him harder with the clock almost out; he seemed to pull up. I curse as soon as the shot went up, knew it was good. I guess it’s tough when the guy is that far out. Turkoglu plays Pierce tough, though; he’s pretty physical with him too. Loved the and-1 play.
How many fouls on Duh-wight? 1? or 2? come on ....that is just too obvious of a bias
Is it Soup Yet?
That will probably change...
down the line especially come playoff time if Perk, J.O. and Erden can all be healthy along with Shaq as the C’s will hopefully be able to use all the big man depth they have to play Howard much more physically and take it to him in attempt to get him in foul trouble.
Forgot to give props Sweet Jesus Shuttlesworth ....the classiest Celtic and the most reliable
Is it Soup Yet?
Ray is on an incredible streak right now
of consecutive games shooting 50% or greater.
What was Parrish’ Celtic record? Ray has to be close if he hasn’t passed it already.
And Ray is an outside shooter, not a center!
Nate and Luke were horrible
Nate was his normal terrible self tonight, missing several wide open shots and making bad decisions when running the point. The C’s had chances to extend the lead and Nate blew it every time by taking shots and bricking them.
Luke Harangody had the WORST possible stretch of basketball in his first half minutes. He could not get out to defend Ryan Anderson on the 3 point line when that is the ONLY thing Anderson can do. Even when Anderson had hit 3 straight Luke collapsed inside and left him wide open. Add to that he couldn’t even box Anderson out on the boards or hit his wide open shots. Doc then put him on Bass and Luke couldn’t come close to staying with him either. Doc left him in the game far too long and the C’s gave back their double digit lead because of it. Trying hard and hustling is great but watching Luke be completely useless on both ends of the floor it’s impossible to justify Doc leaving him in the game for extended minutes. And remarkably Doc puts Luke back in at the end of the first half and what does he do - gives up an offensive rebound and commits a foul leading to a 3 point play and the Celtics lose their 5 point lead. It’s rare in the NBA that a marginal bench player can have such an impact on a game but Luke Harangody did tonight, unfortunately in a negative way.
Exactly, and Anderson got zero wide open 3’s without Luke guarding him. It looks like Luke will really struggle to be an effective NBA player. He is too small to bang inside against bigger players and too slow to defend outside. If he can’t make wide open jumpers his stay in the NBA will be a short one. It’s why he fell to the 2nd round even after having a great college career.
Gody was a huge liability defensively. He’s the reason Anderson was able to hit all those shots. But he’s young and works his tail off, so he’ll improve.
As for Nate, I can’t wait for West to be back so Nate can play himself out of the rotation.
by KY Celts fan on Jan 17, 2011 11:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Good game today - Season series will be decided on Superbowl Sunday in just under three weeks.
Hope we can play you guys in the playoffs this year.
I don't mind it, some people do.
He is obviously a very serious competitor. You don’t win 2 DPOY and rebounding/block titles without being serious.
I love how the refs
try and screw us in almost every game. The audacity they had to call a moving screen on garnett when the whole night howard was throwing cheap shots on all his picks. Just another game where we beat the refs and the opponents!
The only discouraging thing about this game to me was that Boston was without KG and Perk. Having those two guys back would make them so much stronger, that I am not sure we can win against them.
by letsgoblue86 on Jan 17, 2011 11:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The refs
are always going to try and screw us over.
Dwight Howard is the most pampered baby in the NBA it’s RIDICULOUS.
Good, solid game. The Magic aren’t going to be able to shoot that well all the time. I am not scared at all of the Magic.
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I think we’ve seen it in stretches before, tbh. Orlando has gone on some pretty big runs against the Cs the past few years. I think Harangody’s stint in there (and I’m not sure if it’s all on Luke but he was guarding Anderson when he went off) made it worse than it might have been. He was conspicuous by his absence in the second half.
Watching the replays right now
Luke was all over Anderson on two of those 3s – and they still sank.
He was late coming off help on the third.
I thought t least two were wide open
I will stand on my position thar he should be in the nbdl and will be a Marginal NBA player at best. Hope I am wrong
Don’t have the replays, but they all looked wide open to me. I mean after the first two you’ve got to the run the guy off the line, I’d think.
As for Gody, he’s probably going to be at the end of a good team’s rotation as far as peak, but tonight was just being a rookie, I think. A lot will depend on if he can be a reliable shooter.
Anderson is a 39% 3PT shooter
so unfortunately, sometimes he’s just going to burn you.
I believe the reference was to the Magic's 3PT shooting.
The C’s shot 60% because the dominated the paint 52-26.
Can the Magic hope to shoot 40.7% from 3pt land over a 7 game series?
Can Boston hope to shoot 60% over a 7 game series?
I’d say its extremely more likely for Orlando to shoot 3-4% better than normal on threes for a series than it would be for Boston to shoot 8-9% higher for all shots over a series.
Yes sir, yes it is.
Because layups and dunks are a more reliable way to score than outside jump shots.
52 to 26 points in the paint.
That’s the relevant number.
The reason this was close was because of the poor 3PT shooting by the C’s and the disparity in free throws. The C’s normally aren’t going to shoot just 30% from 3PT land and over 7 games the Magic can’t rely on the same ref crew to give them such a huge FT edge.
Do you honestly believe EVERY ref crew has it out for you?
Nearly every recap I read over here, you guys complain about how many fouls the opposing team shoots. If EVERY team shoots more freethrows than you, then it is a trend, and not out of the norm. All refs make mistakes. Today’s game wasn’t terribly officiated. I was actually amazed that there were so few moving screens called. Some of the fouls on Shaq were so-so, but the “refs are out to get the Celtics” excuse gets old when its said over and over and over.
Don't confuse me with others who are conspiracy crazy.
I most certainly do NOT believe that EVERY ref crew has it out for the Cs.
I DO believe that different crews have different trends and behaviors – and this is backed up by a lot of data. NBA refs are horribly inconsistent from crew to crew – but each crew has some overwhelming tendencies.
In fact my statement is very much to the effect that the MAGIC can not rely on having such a favorable crew every game of a 7 game series. So my statement is to the effect that I know that at least SOME crews do NOT ‘have it out for (us)’.
It is unlikely to change. The only way you guys will shoot more freethrows is if Dwight is in foul trouble, and thus not on the court.
Dwight shot 18 tonight, and he is going to shoot a ton of freethrows because that is better than the alternative.
Please re-read
Nothing in my posts relies on us shooting more free-throws.
In all likelyhood, Howard will continue to get the gravy calls. But it is a matter of degree of disparity.
A 36 to 26 disparity is not likely to be sustained over 7 games with variant ref crews.
And as mentioned elsewhere, over 7 games the C’s are not likely to shoot 9% below their 3PT avg and the Magic are not likely to shoot 2.5% above theirs.
All those things aligned in the Magics favor in THIS game and they still lost.
Also the way that Boston’s offense runs they don’t generate as many free throws unless they get the other team over the limit early. Because most of the fouls happen off the ball, either with the player chasing Ray grabbing his jersey or trying to plough through the screen.
Used to be Pierce would get a lot of free throws with his little pump fake. But he is just getting no love for that this year. Not really anyway.
Where as for Orlando a vast majority of the fouls called in their favor happen when Howard is in the process of shooting. So that generates free throws immediately.
Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.
I actually doubt they care about "us" per se
…Refs have their reasons for doing the terrible job they usually do, but I don’t believe it’s because they “hate us.” Whatever it is though, it stinks, and should change. But even if it doesn’t, the Cs can play through it.
Just a FYI..In just two games against the Magic, the Celtics have shot 34.6% and 60%. It is inconceivable, based on these two games that the Boston Celtics can sustain that 60% mark that you think they can. And, I know Rondo wasn’t there but even if he shot 100%, they wouldn’t have reached 60%. The stats are….Orlando Magic FG% 39.4, 3pt% 37.9….Boston Celtics FG% 34.6, 3pt%23.5. I believe statistically thinking that Orlando’s 40.7% 3pt%mark is more obtainable. Stastically speaking…
Rondo's personal FG%
doesn’t have so much at all to do with the team FG%. His affect on it is in running of the offense. Rondo enables all his shooters to shoot at a much higher % because he is consistently getting the ball to the player with the best look at the basket.
When Rondo is running the offense, and KG & Shaq are on the floor, the Celtics FG% is pretty consistently well above 50%.
Even including all the games those guys have missed, the team is still at 50% overall. With those guys, it goes way up.
The Orlando Magic are a 37.5% 3PT shooting team.
Sound great?
That’s 11th in the NBA.
The Celtics are 4th in the NBA at 39.1%.
If we believe the Magic can shoot above their average for 7 games, do we also believe the C’s will shoot below their average for 7 games (the C’s only shot 30% tonight)?
by mmmmm on Jan 18, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with you
Both teams can shoot their average. However, since the Magic take far more threes per game. It could be to there advantage. I take the celts, if healthy, in six games.
Ask Cleveland 2009
Unlike MagicMark, I think the Celtics can shoot 60% for a series. It is what they do during the regular season. But the Magic are capable of shooting 40 for a series as well. Remember they started off cold, until they made the trade. I was watching the Celtic post game show, and your TV guys both agreed these were the two best teams. Remember the Heat have been dominated by the Celtics in both games. The Celtics/Magic games have been very close and whichever team dominated the last two minutes won the game. I am not sure if the Magic can beat the Celtics in a seven game series, I fully believe they should beat the Heat. Someone here mentioned the Heat have too much talent. Well outside their Little 3, who do they have exactly?? Mike Miller has stunk this season. They have no one to guard Dwight. They have no Point Guard either. I am hoping that the Celtics get the top seed. That way we would play the Heat in the second round. Either way this was a great game. Very good flowing game from both teams.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I believe the Magic can beat the Heat in 7 game series as well.
The Heat do not have a strong post defender who can single on Howard. The Magic are almost taylor made to beat the Heat.
That was also the problem for the Cavs in 2009.
The Magic have not beaten any team with a strong interior defense in a seven game series. No – the 2009 Celtics do not count because they did not have KG.
When a team can single on Howard, then that allows them to stay on the perimeter shooters.
When did they most burn us from deep last night? When we didn’t have the Shaq/KG combo on the floor. That’s when we had to keep dropping our wings in to help and then try to rush them back out to contest. When we can reliably single in the post, then our perimeter defenders get to stay put and focus on taking their man off the shot.
That said – the C’s will need to have at least 3 of KG/Shaq/Perk/JO healthy when the playoffs hit. We do not want to put Luke or Semih out there against Howard.
I agree
I think Orlando’s offense and defense will match up well with Miami and can beat them in a series, or at least make it very interesting.
That said, I don’t think the Magic can beat the Celtics in a series unless something very unusual happens.
by papa shuttlesworth on Jan 18, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I was referring to your 3 point shooting
More specifically, your bench player who went 4 of 5 from the 3 point line.
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Actually Ryan Anderson is very underrated
He is shooting around 40% from 3. He was 1 team All Pac 10, and this was when the Pac 10 was still great in basketball. OJ Mayo, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison and others were all still in the Pac 10 at the time.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
yeah - he's a hell of a gunner
Not a very good post defender yet, though.
He’s still young. And he seems pretty smart. He will almost certainly get better, assuming he stays healthy.
Very high basketball IQ. Good rebounder, defense is suspect.
The Ryan Anderson vs Brandon Bass debate is basically Civil War down here in Orlando. If you were to actually watch him everyday the conclusion would be he is a thicker Rashard Lewis while being a better rebounder. Don’t know if he can hit the shots Rashard did though. Still he is only 22.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Ray Allen Glue
I.e. JJ Redick: where do you get that stuff? His ability to stay with Ray is uncanny. I thought Ray handled it a lot better tonight, he was SO clutch in the fourth quarter.
A terrible game to watch
The lead kept changing so many times, it was hard to keep count, all the while the blood pressure kept building, and the heart was pounding. Every time, it seemed that we would take a lead, it would disappear as another three was jacked up by Orlando- 11 in all.
Add in an extra 11 free throws for Orlando, and we had a nail biter on our hands.
We made a full 60% of our shots, and won by three points- ridiculous, considering Orlando shot just under 46%.
Puuuh- leese.
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My thoughts
1. With Perk and Shaq and whatever minutes Glass Knees can give us in the playoffs, Dwight Howard is going to have a TOUGH time against us. With Orlando’s live / die by the 3 strategy I really don’t think they can beat us in 7 (even with the ref’s help).
2. I’m now sure 100% that the prerequisite for playing on Orlando is to either A. Be able to shoot / make a 3 or B. Have Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle shoulders / arms (Howard and Bass) lol
3. Can’t wait for Delonte to get back. Nate really is going to either get better (as a SG) or play himself out of the rotation – either way it’s a win for us (guy is killing us right now).
4. VINTAGE Big 3 at the end of the game. Ray with the hot shooting, Pierce with the and 1 (I LOVE when that works fyi), and KG with the steal (who looked great tonight)
+1
Celtics Big 3 made big plays. Love it
by OsirusCeltics on Jan 18, 2011 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Wow
And just wait until we get perk and felines back. Kg was awesome as were ray and baby. Pierce was huge when it mattered and shaq held his own. Quisy was solid off the bench. Gody and Nate were horrible, but tonight, who really cares.
Oh and
What a PHANTOM call (by Crawford no less) on KG. Richardson was just sick of running through screens and picks to try and catch Ray lol. Go watch the replay, that flop he took was Gasol-like.
Gasol
is the biggest whiner in the NBA.
Not only does he flop, every time he is down low, he will scream whenever he goes up. It doesn’t matter if he gets hit or not. He will yell just to try and get the foul.
2nd biggest whiner is Dwight Howard.
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"They said I couldn't be a high school quarterback, they said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship. You're not good enough, you're not skilled enough. They said I couldn't win a heisman. They said I couldn't win a national championship. They said I wouldn't be a first round draft pick. They said I couldn't play in the league. Appreciate that." - Tim Tebow.
Yo Chucky
What is the Celtics record against Florida teams this year?
Buy wait it get’s even uglier in the Playoffs.
I really wish NBA analysts were paid by the accuracy of their picks. What’s the point of experts who get it wrong every year?
by David Henderson on Jan 17, 2011 11:18 PM EST reply actions
Oh not Broussard
He’s Lebron’s fanboy, he never gives the Celtics credit
by OsirusCeltics on Jan 18, 2011 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
Broussard, his a LeBron fan-nut!
I take it back about Broussard, he’s not I meant to mention someone else.
Chuck hates the Cs
It goes back to his Sixers days. You can’t listen to him to much vis a vis the Cs.
Like Charles. but he doesn’t know anything. This is the same person that said Dallas is the best team in Texas. And now Dallas is on a 6 game losing streak.
Or Butler.
Which in my mind, is almost as important. He was such a cornerstone for that defense.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Well I’m glad he hates us,every team he loves starts to lose,Chuck’s nothing but a jix.
by nanaluvsball on Jan 18, 2011 12:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hahahaha
He always says those stupid things to sound intelligent hahaha
by OsirusCeltics on Jan 18, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
He's always switching up!
Now the Bulls are his favorite, please! lol
Going to bed - good win .....Peace
Hey….why are my sleeves are too short? Because you keep pushing them up and you buy them at Sears!!!!
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Jan 17, 2011 11:19 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
How did my arms get to be so long?
Oh, I forgot- that jacket was a hand me down from an elf.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
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http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Orlando can shoot!
I’m not crazy about Orlando, but I gotta give them credit they don’t quit or back down. Also, they can shoot the ball like crazy. But the C’s 4th quarter defense is too much.
They also got rid of the soft parts of their team: Lewis, Carter and, even Gortat to an extent; his defense was very weak at times.
Gortat loss is their biggest problem
by David Henderson on Jan 17, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think Gortat is overrated a bit at this point, especially for what he means to the Magic. They didn’t have trouble rebounding tonight and he never struck me as good defensively. Unless Dwight is in foul trouble, I don’t think it’s an issue.
+1
Gortat may not be the most important, but he gives Dwight Howard rest throughout the season. which is very underrated. How about when Dwight gets in foul trouble? The Magic would be very beatable
by OsirusCeltics on Jan 18, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
Probably true.
And the Magic got back in the game with him off the floor, and Anderson in, because the Celtics second unit decided to completely forget how to chase people off a 3-point line, or fight through a screen.
Anderson’s shooting probably can’t hold consistent (even wide open 3s aren’t going to go in every time.)
But Gortat definitely gave you a defensive presence in the second unit, the Celtics nearly doubled the Magics point in the paint. And without the 3-pt shooting differential, and offensive rebounds, they wouldn’t have even been in the game by the 3rd quarter.
The rebounding thing (we hope) will be fixed in the playoffs, when Perk is back. The 3-pt shooting is probably not sustainable over a 7-game series. The points in the paint, should be able to be done every single game for the exact reason we’re talking about… there’s noone other than Dwight Howard.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
While true
Even if Gortat is in the game instead of Dwight, he is a liability on offense. Boston could back off of him. With this new team, at least Boston has to defend all five positions regardless of who is in. I think that is what Otis Smith was attempting to do with these trades. I know the NBA wants the Heat in the ECF and Finals for ratings, but I really think that Boston vs Orlando would be the best ECF matchup. And so combo of Lakers, Spurs, Celtics and Magic in the Finals would also be better in terms of basketball.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I agree.
I think the Heat will have a hard time with Orlando.
They simply cannot defend the paint the way the Celtics can. If they don’t help on Howard, he is going to torch them, and if they do, it opens up perimeter players. Now Miami has outstanding perimeter defense, maybe the best in the league, since they have incredibly athletic players in Wade, Bron, Bosh, who have size and length at all 3 positions to bother shooters.
But Juwan and Erik(a) can’t do anything against Howard in the post, he could drop 60 if they feed him all day, and leave single coverage. Bosh is going to have to try and time some double teams, and that’s going to free someone, which means Lebron has to rotate to take away the layup from Bosh’s man, which means someone is open on the perimeter.
Can the Magic find that player and will he hit the shots? Well, that’s why we play the games.
Should be fun. But the trades don’t help the matchup with Boston, who won last year because they singled Dwight and didn’t allow other players to get open. Yes Boston will have to guard all five positions for 48 minutes… but that’s what they always do, nothing has changed there from last year.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
But instead of Vince Carter and Lewis
They will have to guard Jason Richardson, Turk(admitted problem for Pierce), Ryan Anderson and Brandon Bass.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
Turk is not a problem for Pierce.
Where are folks getting this from?
Turk hasn’t scored more than 20 points against the Celtics since … November of 2009!
And no more than 13 in his last 6 games against them.
wrong sort order
He scored 16 this last christmas – but other wise hadn’t scored more than 12 against the C’s since his 20 on Nov 27, ’09.
meanwhile, Pierce averages 22.2 pts/g against Turk
Here are their matchups:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=piercpa01&p2=turkohe01
It really isn’t close.
+1
And on top of those numbers, Turk only scores on Pierce with prayer fadeaway threes, or when Pierce is picked off
by OsirusCeltics on Jan 18, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah
You’re right. I think they are beatable regardless. I’m just saying that the amount of minutes Howard is playing is gonna catch up to him
by OsirusCeltics on Jan 18, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Orlando Magic are the definition of "Live and Die by the 3"
Tonight they died. Which is ridiculous because they made a crazy amount of 3 pointers.
That is true
But the Magic boast a top 5 defense. Yes on the road trip is has been suspect, but they still maintain a top 5 defense. Which is what seperates them for the likes of New York, Phoenix, Golden State, etc. The Magic are built similar to Dream’s Rockets and Duncan’s Spurs. 6 titles.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
The 3 kept them in the game
…along with the FTs. They are a dangerous team, and will likely get even more so before season’s end.
How often does that style of play win?
I cant recall a team where their offense is based around 3’s ever winning a championship.
Yes, and that's what makes them so tough to defend.
You gotta watch their outside shooters AND defend on the inside where Howard wreaks his havoc. It’s a tough grind, and always dangerous with them. In fact, the Cs did NOT bother to defend the 3pt line much, until near the end of the game… probably because it’s such a pain in the rear-end. It would suck the energy out of a team if they have to defend that hard all game long.
That… plus the reasonable expectation that they’re likely to get only better as the season moves along… leads me to believe that the Magic will be the Cs’ toughest playoff opponent this year. (Or maybe we’ll get lucky and Philly will eliminate them, eh? Ha.)
01/17/11 Reggie Miller: "You live the by the 3, you die by the 3"
I disagree, 3’s might allow you to stay in a game, but when u don’t rely on defense especially against a team like the Celtics, then it offsets you. Yes the Magic shot a lot of three’s but they lost the game because of no defense.
When you have a post defender like Perkins
or JO or Rasheed and to a lesser extent Shaq, this is what makes them easy to defend.
The Magic rely on the fact that 90% of the teams will need to double on Howard, which frees a perimeter shooter for a pass-out catch & shoot relatively uncontested perimeter shots for a fairly high percentage. During parts of last night’s game, when we didn’t have KG & Shaq on the floor, we had to do this as well. When it was just Shaq and no KG on the floor, we were also vulnerable to Nelson & Howard running the P&R.
When you can single-cover Howard with someone like Perk/Sheed/JO/Shaq, though, and you have KG to control the rest of the paint, you can smother all the perimeter shooters tight, make them move laterally, keep them out of the paint and contest all their jump shots, which drops their FG% dramatically.
In the playoffs, the best teams with strong interior defenders (Lakers, Spurs and of course the Celtics) almost always beat teams structured like the Magic. The Magic got past us in ’09 without KG – and barely at that. But other than that, what team with a strong interior defense have they beaten in the playoffs?
Which is why the traded Carter and Lewis
They both have become nothing more than spot up shooters. No one outside of Jameer would create shots for anyone else or for themselves either. Turk creates for others, while Richardson can get his shot.
Roll Bass and War Ryno for me
I think people have also forgotten that we are what 15 games with a pretty much brand new team. It was a good game tonight but one thing I am sure of is that a Stan Van Gundy team will get better defensively. Offense comes easily…Defense has to be practiced and the 3 players that came in the trade aren’t defense minded AT ALL…..excluding Earl Clark b/c he hasn’t really played much.
True. And Gilbert apparently isnt 100%.
I think several on here have remarked that we expect the Magic to get better.
a great game, but certainly no defensive struggle. i agree with mmmm-paul was terrific tonite defensively. and lets not forget rondo-we shoot 60% plus because the great orchestrator is doing a superb job-maybe only 1 turnover. what has happened to nate’s shot.. he was missing open looks. baby played a great floor game and stayed within himself. we’ll get better- i don’t see the magic getting that much better.
Magic will also get better
Just with the added PT together… they’ve got 3 guys who are still fairly new to their system (well, maybe we shouldn’t count Turk). And I expect them to pick up another backup big. But that’s it. Meanwhile, the Cs will get way better with Perk and Delonte added to the lineup.
Nate’s bad game could be because he was playing PT (because Quis not feeling 100%?), which is like poison to him. All that goes away with Delonte back. To say nothing of having another Howard-stopper like Perk around. All in all, both teams will improve, but the Cs, who are CURRENTLY better, should improve MORE than the Magic will
KG is a beast!
As a true fan of basketball and sports in general; I think KG has amazing passion as an athlete especially when he plays. I don’t see his kind of passion throughout the league maybe except for Amare Stoudemire. KG’s energy is something to feed off from.
Shaq
Nary a mention of Shaq in here, but I thought he played a pretty good game, especially considering he got screwed on a couple of those foul calls. I also think he played the whole 3rd quarter and then started into the fourth until foul trouble put him on the bench. Nice job, big fella!
Great 5 vs 8 win
When KG is healthy, we are simply better than the refs. Orlando, forget about it. Even officiating, and we smoke this team. We get called for 2 questionable travels, but dwight can jump up and down over the whole court. Wait, let me guess, “hop step” right. Its legal yes? Yet we get hit with the same force as them when we go to the hoop, but they get to the line and we don’t. Go celts. Stay healthy, and beat the refs this year.
Magic will get tougher. But never as tough as the Cs.
Magic’s offense is in pretty decent shape. By which I mean it’s pretty clear what their offensive identity is: 3pt shooting, post game through Howard (and whoever they pick up to back him up), running hard for the transition game when possible, Nelson as an excellent maestro.
So what is SVG likely to work on between now and the end of the reg season? I figure it’ll be defense. That’s where they need the most work. And that’s where they can improve the most. (Especially on the inside.)
So Magic will very likely be a tougher team in the playoffs. Maybe much tougher. Which is why I think they’ll be the toughest playoff out for the Cs this season. BUT… no matter how much they work on their D, they will never have Kevin Garnett as their defensive backbone. (Obviously… he’s one-of-a-kind.) So the Cs will always be the better team. ASSUMING… we stay healthy, of course.
Is it me or does Dwight seem frustrated ALL the time?
I was fortunate enough to be at the game tonight, 5 rows behind the visitor bench. I noticed that anytime his teammates messed up, he would always look at them and whine. It’s like he picked this trait up from his coach.
Anyway, after the game was over, to took an awful long time to shake hands with some of the Celtics players, but rather than head back into the locker room, he sat back on his bench and overall just seemed frustrated. I’m not making any insinuations, but is this typical of him? Let it be known that I would LOVE to have him on the C’s if/when he becomes a free agent.
On a side note, did anyone else catch Howard talking smack back and forth with McLovin? I love that dude, he acts almost exactly like the characters he portrays in all his movies.
They mostly depend on 1 player.
I don’t see the Magic winning without Howard, they are tough as long as howard is playing but an injury or T’s penalty and they will be in trouble.
Is it a bad thing to depend on one player if that player is a top5 player in the league? Thats like saying that Chicago wouldn't have won their titles if MJ got injured. (just an analogy - I don't believe Dwight is anywhere near as good as he was).
The Celtics honestly don’t have anyone who is as important to their team as Dwight is to the Magic. Take Lebron off the Cavs and see how they do…..oh wait.
You guys don’t have a dominant superstar. Your two most important players are KG and Rondo, but Pierce and Allen give you what you need.
Strangely though, the C's have shown themselves to be pretty vulnerable
to losing any one of their ‘Big 3’.
Their won-loss % drops dramatically in games when any one of those guys is not on the floor.
The C’s are so team-oriented in their style of play and each of those guys plays a critical role.
They can ‘get by’ without one for a while, but its still a huge hit.
And Rondo obviously is pretty much of the same importance now.
Here is to hoping that all the teams get to the playoffs with everybody healthy!
Unnecessary.
He’s entitled to his opinion.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Who are your 5 PGs?
I’d put Rondo 3. But the PG discussion gets tough because you have to do a lot of what if.
I don’t put Howard or Rondo top 10, but I’ve got them both top 25. Comparing across positions is difficult though.
Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.
difficult... and meaningless
At the PG spot, arguments will rage over who is better than whom, etc., forever. But I feel confident in saying that FOR THIS TEAM, the Celtics, there is no better PG alive than Rondo. He is THE perfect fit for this team.
One interesting question is… what if Rondo were on a different kind of team? If he were, say, with the Bulls. Would he turn out a lot more like DRose? I don’t know. My sense is that he would. I.e., that he adapted to what his team needed from him, so that by now, he is the EPITOME of what THIS team needs. He would likely have adapted differently on a different team.
I think Williams and CP3 have the passing ability to run Boston as effectively as Rondo does. I think they also have enough speed that the drop off wouldn’t be too dramatic.
CP3 is probably the only on ball defender that’s as good as Rondo is.
So those things being said CP3 would be most of everything that Rondo is, only a better shooter. So in theory he could be better.
But then it gets dicey. It gets more difficult to say what if, given the pieces of the other teams. Like how would Rondo’s passing ability improve the other Chicago Bulls, so would that be enough to make up for losing the shooting of Rose. What would Rondo’s improved defense do to the Suns even though they’d lose Nash’s range? I’m very high on Rondo. I think the guy is awesome. And I think it’s a shame that he’s getting outvoted by Rose. It’s interesting to think about what ifs though. Not as fun as thinking about playoffs. But interesting.
Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.
The permutations grow v quickly
…and out of control real fast, when you start thinking about all the ‘what if’s. I do believe that Rondo would have adapted differently on a different team, different coach, no KG, etc….. to the point where he might have been almost unrecognizable. He’s a super athlete, for sure, so he could probably master any PG challenge.
I’d agree that CP3… and I’d add Nash too… come closest to Rondo’s passing abilities. BUT… what Rondo does takes much more than passing ability. It takes incredible court vision. And a LOT of raw intelligence… the ability to process a LOT of information quickly and come up with the right decision a hundred times a game, all while remembering the quirks and preferences of everyone on his team, and many on the opposing team. I have no idea whether CP3 could do that, or not (because I don’t know much about him). Pretty sure Nash could do it… but he’s on the cusp of being from another era. One thing’s sure — the number of guys to consider in Rondo’s place is very, very small. And given the unknowns involved… there’s nobody else I would want in his place. Not even CP3… because of the aforementioned uncertainties.
I think this is the first time I've agreed with you fully on something DRJ
Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.
Then he should sign with Boston after his contract expires
Him playing with Rondo would be SCARY. Nelson is a great shooter, but playing with Rondo he could probably average 30 points a game.
He could also teach Rondo how to shoot free throws…
its ridiculous
how howard’s cheap shots go unnoticed by the referees. and most of them are after the whistle/when the clock is stopped. did you guys notice the shot that took ray down? then there were those pushoffs off of screens he set. i wish doc compiles a video of those and sends to the league (wishful thinking i guess).
nevertheless, i’m worried he might injure our players if we meet them in the playoffs like he did last time around.
You have shaqs elbows as enforcers this time around
by Warrior Spirit on Jan 19, 2011 1:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Man what a night
when Paul hit that and-1 elbow jumper on Jason Richardson i just yelled “THE CAPTAIN!!”.. haha.. what a game, props to the Magic, that trade really got them moving. I love their options on offense, but to me Dwight will always be a bit of a liability down the stretch.. Like Doc said, we don’t care if he scores 50, our job is to stop everyone else..
Was I the only one who got kinda freaked out at the Magic 3pt shooting? Damn they can heat up..
Great win for the C’s…! Looking forward to that Miami matchup in Feb now..
Clearly shown an improvement.
Since he slowed his prep down and is taking his time now.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
BBD just can't rebound.
When Glen Davis is on court, he just can’t grap defensive REBOUND for us.
Happiness consists in contentment.
I loved the win, but think Orlando is a scary team
Howard has improved termendously on the offensive end. I don’t like him, but the guy worked his butt off in the offseason and it has paid off.
Howard has a post game now. It’s not great. But it’s a huge improvement from playoffs last year. Perk is going to be an upgrade over Shaq in terms of defending that. But a big with a post game is really the only way to try to consistently attack the Celtics defense.
Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.
Yeah, the fact that Howard could score with the sky hook a couple of times last night was scary
That’s a shot that is almost impossible to defend.
Plus the free throw improvement is huge.
The kid will only get better
And harder to defend. I’ve always wondered how it was that Perk (and even Baby, sometimes) could defend so successfully vs. Howard. Seemed to me that a few quick moves on his feet and Howard could easily squeeze by either one, and once he’s at the rim it’s all over of course. But Dwight just didn’t have those “few quick moves.” He’s been working on that, and a few other tricks, courtesy of P. Ewing.
It seems, though, that his best days will come after the current Cs are done with their rings collection.
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