NBA's West Has Built-In Advantage Over East
Clearly, back-to-back games are part of NBA life. Many observers believe that it's an undesirable, rather silly part of the game, giving unfair competitive advantage to one team over another for no reason other than the calendar. But it's a reality, so let's deal with it.
The question here is: do some teams have a built-in ADVANTAGE over other teams from the way the NBA is structured? Answer: yes, absolutely. Western teams have the advantage over Eastern teams. By which is meant: All other things being equal, a Western team has the advantage over an Eastern team in the NBA, by the singular virtue of being in the West.
Here's why:
Looking at the extremes of East coast vs. West coast (so differences are maximized), the facts on the ground include: (a) the time zone on the East coast is 3 hours ahead of the West coast, and (b) most NBA games are played at night.
In regular, non-back-to-back games, players on an East team traveling West are forced to play every regular game at approximately 7:00pm to 9:30pm, which is 10:00pm to 12:30am according to the PLAYERS' INTERNAL BODY CLOCKS. That internal clock is what determines how each player feels relative to the time of day. (Obviously: nobody acclimates overnight.) So we can see that EVEN IN REGULAR GAMES, the traveling East team is at a significant disadvantage compared to the experience of a West team traveling East. Why? A West team going East is going to start their game at approximately 4pm on the players' internal body clock (7pm minus 3 hours). That's a 4pm to 6:30pm game for the traveling West team, vs. 10:00pm to 12:30am for the East team. Not very fair, is it?
But it gets much worse.
Let's see what happens in your typical out-of-town back-to-back sequence. The West team arrives at the destination airport for their 2nd (back-to-back) game at approximately 4am local time, which is *1am* for their body clocks. They go to their hotel, and are checked in and in their rooms ready to sleep by about 2:00am-2:30am, body time. They can wake up 7-8 hours later with a solid night's sleep under their belts, ready to play.
The East team traveling West arrives at the destination airport for their 2nd (back-to-back) game at approximately 4am local time, WHICH IS 7am FOR THEIR BODY CLOCKS! They go to their hotel, and are checked in and READY TO SLEEP AT 8:00am - 8:30am, BODY CLOCK TIME. That's approximately when they'd normally be waking up.
And they're expected to do this with ZERO time for acclimation (to the new time zone).
Most players on the East team are going to get very little, and most probably NO SLEEP AT ALL. Then, a few hours after arriving, they must go and play an NBA game. (This is why the Cs tried to get the NBA to change the part of the schedule they're experiencing right now... so they could avoid exactly this nasty problem.) Note: there is solid evidence that sleep deprivation directly impairs sports performance (intuitively obvious).
And all this is piled ON TOP of the regular amount of fatigue that any team must deal with when facing any back-to-back.
How crazy is this? Completely. No Eastern team should ever expect to actually win such 2nd-of-back-to-back, opposite-coast games. It's almost impossible, by virtue of math and biology. This is not a question of "professionalism" or "sucking it up." It's just plain stupid planning on the part of the NBA. Faced with this level of implacable imbecility, an Eastern team should just throw in the towel, imo. Tilting at windmills is not a successful strategy. I would advise giving ZERO playing time to ALL starters in these cases. Just give the game to the bench, and wave goodbye on your way out the door.
The point of this is: Western teams don't have this kind of problem, certainly not to the extent Eastern teams do. This is a built-in GEOGRAPHICAL advantage that the NBA's structure bestows on teams physically located in the West. Fair? Hardly. Fact? Absolutely. Despite this, which team has the most championships in the NBA? That would be the Celtics, residing firmly, and happily, on the East coast.
More power to them.
----
Update: The question of 'what can/should be done' about this issue has come up. Fact is, the NBA could fix this inequality easily: just stop scheduling back-to-back games during East-to-West road trips. Ideally, don't schedule them on ANY road trips, reserving them for home stands only. If that's not possible, at least the league must NEVER allow it to happen as the first 2 games of an East-to-West road trip. That's just impossibly brutal, and no team should ever be made to suffer through it. Bottom line: it's just a scheduling thing, easily fixed.
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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I have to admit
that it would be interesting to look at the historical Won-Loss numbers for Atlantic div teams playing the 2nd night of a road back-to-back in the Pacific.
Who's going to do the work?
…a fair amount of it too. Hmm… :)
You know, sports data have been picked over so much by now, that it’s pretty rare to find any new nugget of info that has any actual impact. This could be that. It would tend to PROVE that the NBA tilts West, which is a pretty big deal. VERY big deal, imo. If that understanding spreads widely enough, it might actually lead to some change, one day. And that would be a change the league badly needs.
I.e., for once our work might actually impact our guys, the team, the whole NBA. Cool.
Interesting point you raised DRJ1, and a very valid one.
The body clock [ Circadian clock ] has a definite reaction to time changes, no matter how minimal.
One example is the difference in the type of jet lag experienced when travelling to and/ or from a different time zone, and the effect on the body clock.
Another is the type of change that takes place when shift workers change shifts from working day to evening and then night shifts, week after week after week.
From personal experience, after having worked a night shift on a regular basis for more than 10 years, I find it much easier to sleep in a more relaxed way during the day, than at night, and when I change over on the weekends, it’s almost impossible for me to go to sleep at a ’normal ’ hour at night. [ Fortunately for me, my journalism work took place during the daytime, for the most part, in mid to late afternoon hours, so I was able to strike a balance. ]
Add to the change in travel time and the effect on the Circadian Clock rythym, the age factor of an aging team, and the added problems of the lack of movement during travel, combined with a back to back series, where even more travel is involved after the first game, and that provides a recipe for disaster at game time.
They could have arrived with a white flag and thrown in the towel on a game like this, but still did try, which turned into a very ugly playing affair on our part, as the team sleepwalked through most of the game. The lack of energy, not desire, was completely obvious from the opening minute. Definitely a case of the spirit being willing, but the flesh was not only weak, but ravaged.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
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International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
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by lygafe on Jan 29, 2011 10:01 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I would LOVE to see them start one of these games...
…with all bench players, and NEVER bring in the starters. That would be HUGELY enjoyable for me. (In retrospect, there’s NO question at all that they should have done that… with all the wear and tear and money they would have saved………)
yeah, id be interesting to if the team said, NO, we arent playing. give us the L
maybe it forces the NBA to look at how if schedules east coast teams west coast trips.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"
by remembering9ergods on Jan 29, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
It would be fun to do that
not to protest against the time-zone thing, but just against a bad team e.g. CLE to see if our bench is better than their starting line-up.
In any case, we couldn’t do either because the fans would feel cheated.
Let's hope it's the cavs against the Celtics
Free win. :O
If nothing is worth dying for, then nothing is worth living for.
~Chuck Coleson
That would be nice, but we don't have enough bench players.
Owing to injuries, etc., we don’t have enough bench players , and would have to consider playing, through lack of choice, some of our starters. LOL.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Health and bad officiating will be our only obstacles to winning banner no.18
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
It's a valid argument
… and I wonder how the West Coast teams would feel about playing only matine games on the East Coast.
by European NBA fan on Jan 29, 2011 10:32 AM EST reply actions
A little more background to the effects of the Circadian clock
During the decade ++ that I covered athletes, pro and amatuer, participating in events around the world [ to a large extent, figure skaters and hockey players ] the hardest part of their competitions was usually the amount of travel, the jet lag and the changing of time zones.
There were, forthem, and for me, a number of memorable occasions, when, for one reason or another, there were travel delays, and the athlete[s] would arrive with almost no time to spare, would have to suit up and get on the ice.
Needless to say, there were times when they had sub-par performances owing to these circumstances. Although they never complained after, or made excuses, I knew what the problem [s] was/were, and reported accordingly.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
There is a "flip-side" to the whole travel issue...
Teams in the East are relatively close geographically :
BST, NY, NJ, PHIL, CHAR
IND, CHI, DET, MIL,TOR
In the West, they are much further spread out. They travel more miles over the course of a season to play their nearest opponents, and that takes a toll.
Except when they play the Clippers, the Lakers travel to :
PHX—-357 miles
PORT—820 miles
UTH—-690 miles
GS + SAC—-400 miles
Yes, ok
…will take your word on this. Interesting. The difference between these two sets of factors has to include the fact that the qualitative cross-time-zone-travel issue is mostly a league creation, and is therefore (by definition) something the league can change/fix. Intercity distances are. That’s it. They just are. (Ok, you can add ‘acts of god’ to the end of that.) Can’t be fixed. So I guess the reason to think about it is to help balance East to West, to compensate for the time-zone-travel issue.
To that end, not sure what kind of toll the extra miles take… What are you thinking? Like maybe… having to sit still longer? Wasting more time? Dunno…. seems relatively minor.
Traveling more miles to face ANY foe...
More time sitting on a plane…more time in the air…more days having to wake early to board that plane…over the course of 6 months.
It adds up…No way it helps a team!
I dunno
LA will have their 2-hour plane rides, but then Eastern teams will take bus rides for their short distances, so the travel time will end up being the same right?
And on their charter flights, the seats are probably as good or better than bus seats. They may have some sort of in-flight service, and plane rides are less bumpy than road trips. They can walk around in the aisles etc.
400 miles?
thats nothing, its a 3 hour drive. whats it from boston to portland? 2900 miles? 7 1/2 hour flight and you got to play a game that night…..
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"
by remembering9ergods on Jan 29, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
nope. 75-80
i used to have to do a job twice a year that was 400 miles away and it took me betweeb 3 and 3 1/2 hrs to drive it
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"
by remembering9ergods on Jan 29, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I would have loved to have someone like you in my radar gun sights.
80 MPH x 3- 31/2 hrs. = 240-280 miles, and that’s driving straight through. You’re still short 120-160 miles of your 400 mile trip, which by your time calculation of 3-31/2 hrs., meant that you were doing an average of 120 mph + per hour, non-stop.
As a traffic cop, I would love to have someone like you in my sights. Over here, we take people’s licences away on the spot for those kinds of reckless speeds.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
no way i was over 80, not in my truck
i guess its possible i have the mileage off i’ll have to check, lebanon, me to bangor, me….but i still think it was 400….
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"
by remembering9ergods on Jan 29, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
well, looks like i owe title 18 and drj and apology
after checking my log books it was 425 ‘round trip’ miles.
guess my memory isnt as good as i thought it was, figure id rememver better it was only 5 years ago.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
i can just see delonte west winning a game of poker against lebron, throwing down the cards he yells, "who's your daddy!"...."oh, sorry man"
by remembering9ergods on Jan 29, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
By airplane, that's either a 1 or 2 hour flight.
Coming from the east coast, it’s a 5-6 + hour flight. That makes a big difference.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Just something teams got to deal with
Stern can’t do anything about timezones. All professional sports, except maybe football since they only play once a week, have to deal with this.
Well, that's the point
He, or rather the league, can EASILY do something about the timezones. They can NOT schedule back-to-backs when a team is traveling through 3 of them just to get to the first one, then traveling again to get to the 2nd one, all while (obviously) unacclimated to the new timezone, which for an East team practically means skipping sleep altogether the night before game 2.
I like this writeup and the points DR made
I agree that the NBA can, indeed, do something about this and never even thought about it till now.
This East to West problem with a player’s personal body clock is real and gives a big advantage to teams in the West.
Why isn’t this situation talked about more?
Maybe it'll start now
…what with the Internet and all. If I get some free time, I’ll try to gather the stats to back this up… pretty easy to get, just takes time. Then try to get the media to pay attention, etc.
The flip side...
Only 6 east teams with winning records to 9 in the west.
SIX teams .400- or worse win pct to 2 in the west, including the cavs challenging the alltime worst record on a 21-gm losing streak, and the raptors losing their last 12.
Longest road trips 4 or 5 games (look at the West teams with 6 and 7-gm road trips)
And it’s just a long of a flight going east, despite your “Circadian clock theory”
by nba is the worst on Feb 1, 2011 10:20 AM EST reply actions
Well...
- If the East is at a disadvantage, you would EXPECT those team to have worse records, wouldn’t you? Although, I seriously doubt that’s a main reason… it might be a contributing factor though.
- If it’s true that road trips for West teams are longer (I haven’t checked or noticed this), I don’t see how that’s related to the Circadian clock issue. Once a team is ON a road trip, after a few days their body clocks acclimate, so the LENGTH of a road trip is probably a v minor factor.
- The length of flights seems to me to be UNRELATED to the question of how teams are impacted by road trips (relative to their body clocks). It’s not the flight time per se that’s the problem — it’s the 3 timezones, and particularly the fact that East teams are traveling to a time zone 3 hours BEHIND their own. The fact that traveling East teams’ internal body clocks are set 3 hours AHEAD of local time is what makes it so hard for East teams going West, as opposed to West teams going East where they actually GAIN 3 hours of sleep.
That's the actual point with regard to travel from east to west and vice-versa.
The lengthy flight time when going in either direction impacts the players who have to sit around in an airplane for those 5-6 + hour flights, and then have to play, and in many cases, a back to back.
The changing of the time zones is what impacts the sleep cycle, and heading west, 3 hrs. are lost, while when heading east, 3 hrs. are gained, as DRJ1 rightly points out.
The accumulation of the inactivity during the flight and the change of the Circadian clock act in combination.
I’ve flown across the Atlantic on a great number of occasions, and have flown coast to coast, and the jet lag in one direction is always worse than in the reverse direction, when the time zones are changed.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Good point
…about flight time as another stressor.
Interestingly, East-West flight are a little LONGER than West-East flights… about 1/2 hour or so coast to coast… due to the upper atmospheric jet stream. It’s not significant for the players or anything, but it is a bit of a longer trip for Easterners. Bottom line: there is nothing about relative flight times that alleviates any of the problems we’re addressing here, so far as I can tell.
Theres a similar problem in the NFL
With West Coast teams having to come East to play 1 PM games which is 10 AM for their body clocks. Granted they get to their destination a little earlier, but I’d like to see the record of West Coast teams playing at 10 AM
Far fewer games are played at 1 PM.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
There are also far fewer games played in a season
So of course there will be far fewer games played at 1 PM
Can't seem to find the time to look up the stats
Hopefully, I’ll get it done sometime. Meanwhile, in case anybody else wants to look this up, here are my thoughts on WHAT should be looked up:
We should compare the performance of an East coast team, like the Cs, on the 2nd of back-to-back games (a) WHEN TRAVEL TO BOTH GAMES IS LIMITED TO THE EAST vs. (b) WHEN THEY TRAVEL TO THE WEST COAST for both games. By comparing ONE team’s performance under these different circumstances, we eliminate most other variables. The end result of each comparison will be a PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCE number (“PD” – in units of say, games-won %) for that East team when the back-to-back games are in the East vs. when they’re in the West (and have to travel through 3 timezones to get to game 1).
Then get the same data in reverse for a West coast team.
Then compare the Eastern team’s PD to the West coast team’s PD. By comparing the (presumed) dropoff of a single East team (i.e., the dropoff in performance between playing both back-to-backs in their timezone, vs. playing both in an area 3 timezones away) to the SAME kind of dropoff for a single West team, we eliminate a lot of extraneous variables. The key is to compare DROPOFFs in performance, not the performances themselves.
Of course, the more team-pairs of data we get, the more reliable the stat. If we also take the AVERAGE of the ENTIRE East’s PDs vs. that of the entire West’s PDs, we’d have some pretty good data from which to draw conclusions.
Good luck with that.
That should give a statistician a workout, but it could prove invaluable in the future when setting up a schedule.
For example, I didn’t even bother checking in on the Phoenix game, since I knew it would be a game that the Cs should lose, because of all the variables, which have been gone over endlessly now. Had they won the game, it would have been because Phoenix had played a terrible game [ which they almost did ] and would have deserved the loss.
Most of the 2nd games of a back to back are not going to be easy for the Cs, but these types of B to Bs are just brutal, and should not be scheduled that way at all.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Earth rotates counter-clockwise...which is West-to-East in the US
Why does it take 5-6 hours to fly coast-to-coast?
Given Earth`s rotation, it should take forever to fly West-to-East…and a fraction of a second to fly from East-to-West!
You're right.... it truly is a mystery
All the more amazing when you think about what Ray Allen has done over 2500 times — throwing a basketball into a small basket over 20 feet away, from different positions and angles, EACH of which presents a WHOLE DIFFERENT SET of centrifugal and inertial forces created by the Earth’s rotation, the movement of the Earth around the Sun, the motion of the solar system in the galaxy, and the movement of the galaxy in the universe! To say nothing of the forces applied to this ENTIRE UNIVERSE by the creature on whose hairless tentacle our universe sits. The only possible explanation is that Ray Allen has God’s hands on the ends of his arms. Yeah, that’s it…….
Ray takes everything into account when he launches a three-ball...
including the earth`s rotational speed of 1038 mph!
Btw...
…don’t wanna bother looking it up… but that “rotational speed” of the Earth has to have been calculated for the Equator, right? (Because if we multiply 1038 mph by 24 hours, we should get the circumference of the planet… and that result, 24,912, is clearly at the Equator. Certainly not, for example, at Boston’s latitude… where the circumference is a lot smaller, and the ‘speed’ a lot slower than 1038.) More stuff for Ray to figure out before each shot!
OMG this is getting way out of hand, boys
Please don’t include physics in your argument before the board. If they can’t understand the Circadian clock effecting players in back to back games, you will most certainly lose them with this argument extension.
This is an awesome thread!!
:) Yup
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions

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