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Around SBN: Following UFC 146 Loss, Jason 'Mayhem' Miller 'Done' in UFC

Garnett, Pierce, and Kobe May Have Teamed Up To Kill Deal

Nothing about that post title makes me happy in any way whatsoever.

The moment the talks fell apart - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

When they convened, instead of the union's head, Hunter, or its negotiating committee of Maurice Evans, Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Theo Ratliff, Etan Thomas and Chris Paul, representing the players were Fisher, Kessler and three superstars who had been to very few of the meetings at all: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant. A bad sign: Pierce was still wearing his backpack. The players had two pieces of news that shocked the league: 50/50 was not good enough. And there was nothing further to discuss. 

It is important to note that there is some question about the validity of this story, but I suppose it wouldn't shock me and it would explain a little why the talks broke off so suddenly and confusingly last week.  Another important note: If these events did happen, it was the Union telling them to do it.  I'm not sure we can put any of the blame directly on Pierce and Garnett.

Still, Bill Simmons has a more tongue in cheek version of the events.

Bill Simmons Avoids a Few Subjects Before Making His Week 6 NFL Picks - Grantland

During one of the single biggest meetings (last week, on Tuesday), Hunter had Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce and Garnett (combined years spent in college: three) negotiate directly with Stern in some sort of misguided "Look how resolved we are, you’re not gonna intimidate us!" ploy that backfired so badly that one of their teams’ owners was summoned into the meeting specifically to calm his player down and undo some of the damage. (I’ll let you guess the player. It’s not hard.) And this helped the situation … how? And we thought this was going to work … why?

That's lovely.  There's more at the link above there if that isn't enough snark for you.

For any more on this mess, feel free to read CelticsTown's and Red's Army's take on the events.  Frankly I'm too disgusted to digest it or analyze it.  Sorry.

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Sooo...

If Wyc is a driving force behind the owners hard line, and this report is true, does anyone else think this is not a good sign for our team morale next year?

Wait, I don´t really want an answer…

by Casperian on Oct 15, 2011 10:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Between this and the red sox implosion

It looks like i’m becoming a full time NFL guy. (hockey’s great too, but its not for me.)

Brady > Mallett > Hoyer > Sanchez

- beantownboy171

by B.H.Talbot on Oct 15, 2011 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

So pathetic

We will look back on this lockout fiasco as the time the NBA lost any remaining shred of credibility it may have once had.

by ADL Celt on Oct 16, 2011 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

It doesn't matter who meets with the owners

They have no interest in a reasonable deal, just one that guarantees them big profits regardless of their management or market. The union really did a terrible job on PR though, the average fan believes David Stern is honest, and the players are greedy.

by kg2128 on Oct 16, 2011 3:02 AM EDT reply actions  

I wonder what Celtics fans think

Maybe this site should put up a poll and see if readers consider David Stern: very honest, honest, not particularly honest or dishonest., dishonest, or very dishonest.

by LooseCannon on Oct 16, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stern...

…works for the owners. He is going to do and say things that maximize profits for the owners. That’s his job. “Making nice” with the players and the fans is something he has to do in order, from time to time, to “grow the league” and make the owners happy, but it’s all just part of his job.

He’s a lot like a politician with the owners as his constituency. He has to say the right things to keep the fans happy, and I’m sure he wants to keep the majority of the players happy, too, but he works for the owners.

So, does he lie? Of course, he does.

by Eris on Oct 17, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like any commissioner in any sport

Stern is hired by the owners…works for the owners…is paid by the owners…and runs the risk of being fired by the owners.

by Title 18 on Oct 17, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bring on the scabs

50 50 not fair?? Am I missing something?? What do the players want that is not being met?? Personal scrotal bag washers?? I have had enough! Let’s get Nate Driggers out of retirement to lead this team back to glory!

by Dickretro on Oct 16, 2011 8:10 AM EDT reply actions  

remind me again who actually plays the game of basketball?

that is, who is the actual product being profited from here? Oh right, it’s the players, why the heck should they give away 50% of the revenue when they are THE ENTIRE product.

"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy

by WillyBeamin on Oct 16, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because the players take none of the financial risk, Willy

Without the owners….And Stern…These guys are making a fraction of what they’re making now.

This isn’t rocket science, Willy. The owners assume all of the financial risk. They have to sign the paychecks whether the players perform or the fans show up.

by Finkelskyhook on Oct 16, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um ... are you really saying that the players take no financial risk here?

That seems a little naive. A player devoting his life to professional sports is making a serious, serious investment and taking on a ton of risk, both physical AND financial.

They collectively have hundreds of millions of dollars at stake here.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 16, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really

Most of them have guaranteed contracts. Whether they get hurt or just stop trying they get paid. The owners risk is if people stop coming to the arena. If Lebron gets hurt, maybe his contract is insured but there is no insuring a drop in gate receipts.
C’mon MMMMM, this player devoting himself to pro sports would be making more money than he or his family ever dreamed IF HE WERE MAKING 1/3 OF HIS CURRENT SALARY.
Some things get out of whack. Wall St bonuses for one. NBA salaries for two

by Wildblu1 on Oct 16, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Equating NBA player salaries with Wall St. corporate bonuses.....PFFT!

That is just crazy.

Its a much grander scale, but NBA players are the equivalent of your average worker being forced to take a pay cut because the owners want to make even more money. It’s greed, plain and simple

Business owners are the scourge of the earth (save a for maybe a few decent souls left in the business world)

" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)

by KG's Knee on Oct 16, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only difference is

the average worker dosen’t makes millions of dollars playing a game like what the players do. It’s a equal partnership as far as i’m concerned. The players play in the league and make fans show up but it’s the owners and the league that houses where the play. You may not give a lick about the owners whrn in reality you should. There just as important as the players and as stupid and stubborn as them.

Pittsburgh Sports: Creating sports history and legends since 1887.

by Bradley James McEachern on Oct 16, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this take, for the most part.

I see this as nothing more than a business negotiation.

The owners run an entertainment business that requires a resource (basketball player services) that is supplied by a business partner (the union).

No different than a car manufacturer that buys shocks from an exclusive supplier.

It isn’t about good or evil or morality crap like that. Each side is simply negotiating for what it perceives is the most advantageous deal.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 16, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

You DO understand that the percentage of athletes who ACTUALLY make it

to a pro contract of any significance is tiny, right?

They are investing significant personal capital (themselves, literally), for a slim chance at making that money. It is a business investment no different than sinking a ton of money into a venture that may or may not pay off. The only difference is that the players also take on significant personal physical risk.

Plus they have to endure the exploitation gauntlet of the NCAA where tremendous value is extracted from them for nothing except a handful of magic beans and during which if they incur a career ending injury, they are simply screwed.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 16, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope. It's basic economics.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 17, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

A player devoting his life to sports is making a serious investment?!?

Yeah, as if that player was seriously considering alternate career options….such as nuclear-physics, cardiology, or neural surgery!

by Title 18 on Oct 17, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

how does this have anything to do with what I wrote Finkel?

I’m stating the players want more than 50% of the profits because without them there could be no NBA.

w/o this set of owners, there would be a different set of owners, and professional basketball would continue to exist.

at what point did I talk about the financial risk that the owners need to take on? don’t belittle me about the economics of risk/reward investments. remind me again who signs those contracts? oh yah, the owners, so why should I feel bad for them when they realize they can’t afford them?

"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy

by WillyBeamin on Oct 18, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now there is a debate whether either side proposed 50/50

Only people who were at the meetings know for sure. The owners want a hard cap either officially or unofficially (through heavy taxing: 1.75-4 dollars per 1 dollar over on the first year, up to 8 dollars per 1 dollar for repeat offenders) and 2-3 years shorter on all types of contracts.

by kg2128 on Oct 16, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the owners don't like the terms, they should sell thier teams

I don’t care one lick about the owners, and if I had the ability to chose, every dime I spend on the NBA would go to the players. I watch basketball to see players, not owners. Again, I don’t care about them!

Let the owners suit up and see how well their “business” does.

" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)

by KG's Knee on Oct 16, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

if the scabs come in does this mean stojko vrankovic and brett szabo and ramon rivas will be celtics again ?

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Oct 17, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

When KG’s on your side he’s a great guy and teammate. When he’s not on your side – he’s an a-hole. I think the players are crazy for following him into this mess. But I am glad because I hope it all comes crashing down and there’s no games for 2 years or more. I pray the owners stick it to the players. I want a hard cap, non guaranteed contracts and players that play every game hard. When they quit playing hard, cut ’em. Most of the players are way overpaid and the market needs a correction.

by timpiker on Oct 16, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions  

I think

that the owners have done a great job with the media. Btw…that 50/50 split becomes 53% for the owners after 3 years..I.

by Fastbreak1 on Oct 16, 2011 11:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Kill the season....

Let the superstars sweat it out and find ways to make a buck going out of the country. With the first two weeks lost already, it’s not going to be the same anyway. So might as well go for the whole year and let the players come to the owners and initiate the discussion once again.

by LarryBird33 on Oct 16, 2011 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

the fact that piece & garnett are involved here

matters little, the players union in its entirety has to come to an agreement, not as if Pierce + Garnett are acting alone here.

"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy

by WillyBeamin on Oct 16, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions  

well maybe not in its entirety

could be a simple majority, my point is garnett + pierce are speaking for a much larger group, not their own personal self interest in making a deal

"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy

by WillyBeamin on Oct 16, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like him or not, Stern has been sharp here

I made a point a few days ago that the league is run by its stars (and their snake-like agents) and most of them stopped book learning in 10-12 grade. Who in their right mind would send a passionate guy like KG into a labor negotiation? That is a sign of the players’ “inmates running asylum” status quo at the moment.

David Stern had very aggressive wants from the owners side, conceded down and has won the game of “Who is being reasonable” . The players totally missed the 3rd man in the room – public opinion. 50/50 sounds fair, regardless of the fine arguments of whether it is fair. Guaranteed contracts for dogs such as Mark Blount offend pretty much everyone. Players lose on that one. The owners’ allegation that so many teams are losing money and the fabulous wealth of these players doesn’t work for the players. Assuming, of course, that the owners aren’t taking huge depreciation and amortization to generate their “losses”. It is possible that they have tax losses but very good cash flow. But if that was true a smart Players Union would get that point out. So, either it is true the league’s owners are losing a lot of money, or it is true that the Players Union is full of dummies.
Game-Set-Match, players. You just don’t know it yet.

by Wildblu1 on Oct 16, 2011 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Like him or not....

Stern is the reason that these players are making the money they’re making now. He built the league from a Finals game being on television tape-delay to the cartoonish merchandising empire that the stars are today.

Stern has always been the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Great points by Wildblu1

by Finkelskyhook on Oct 16, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree David Stern is way too smart for anyone in the union including Billy Hunter

They need someone that won’t be embarrassed by Stern intellectually to represent the Union. The players are officially at 53% BRI and they started at 57%. The owners are officially at 46%, an 11% change from 57% and in public opinion no one calls them greedy. The players have mostly stayed silent except for random stupid things on twitter, Stern is using the press at critical times to make sure the fans are on his side.

by kg2128 on Oct 16, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you Master Po.

Would rather be talking about Avery Bradley’s potential or Rondo’s free throw shooting or the new Purdue guys but really this labor dispute is pretty interesting given the general economic malaise. It touches a nerve and it is interesting to watch play out.

by Wildblu1 on Oct 16, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Players negotiation shakeup!

OUT : Derek Fisher, Billy Hunter

IN : Gilbert Arenas, Delonte West, Stephen Jackson, Joakim Noah

by Title 18 on Oct 16, 2011 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

During one of the single biggest meetings (last week, on Tuesday), Hunter had Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce and Garnett (combined years spent in college: three)

Why is their combined number of college years relevent to the discussion? I’m willing to bet that Kobe and Kevin learned as much academically in their first 3 NBA years as Paul did in the classroom…lol

None of these guys strike me as illiterate. None of them appear to have poor financial management skills. As a player, I’d sure as hell want them going to bat for me before Derek breach of contract Fisher.

That said, in Kobe, Paul, and Kevin’s position, they can probably afford to hold out a lot longer than most of their peers.

This is unraveling quickly for the players.

by Finkelskyhook on Oct 16, 2011 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

add in Steve Jobs one year and Bill Gates one year.So. those 3 guys and Steve and Bill gives you a total of 5 years college.

by johnnymost on Oct 16, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bill Simmons making that comment about Kobe, KG, and Paul just tells me all about him. It tells me that Simmons lack character as person and journalist. I see why a lot of New England sports fans and bloggers despise him.

Kobe speaks fluent French, Italian and Spanish. Paul had 3yrs of college, and KG skipped college and went to the league and look how bad he(KG) turned out! (Sarcasm)

by C'sFanfrmNy on Oct 17, 2011 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Divide and conquer?

I wonder how much of this is true or it is that kind of things owners can drop off to gain momentum in the media.

by NicaraguanFan on Oct 16, 2011 2:39 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I don’t even understand why it matters who went in the room. It was the representative of the players (EVERY PLAYER), Derek Fisher, who walked in with three superstars which demands some sort of respect towards what Fisher had to say, rejecting an offer that was MAYBE on the table. If Derek walked in their with Lebron, Kobe, and Chris Paul with the same result this would be a non story on this blog.

by thebolt on Oct 16, 2011 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 16, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bill Simmons is not to be taking serious.

I could care less about Simmons. He’s like every other sports writer of today and that’s opinionated, he needs his own gossip column. I would love for this lockout to end soon, but that seems less likely as I read different stories and quotes every week. With all that’s going on in this poor economy sports fans are less sympathetic, and could care less about millionaires and billionaires fighting over revenue and etc.

Let’s be real star players such as Kobe, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Paul, Amare, Dirk, Rose, Melo, Rondo, Billups, Durant, Hill, Griffin, J.Johnson, V.Carter, Howard, Nash, Williams, Fisher, Kidd and others will not suffer financially from this current lockout. It’s only the role players and those that make league minimum will suffer. By the way I didn’t know league minimum is 5mil.

I think the star players are looking out for the interests of those players that make league minimum. Bill, might wanna mention that in his piece for future notice.

 

by C'sFanfrmNy on Oct 17, 2011 1:02 AM EDT reply actions  

League average salary is around $5 million...

The league minimum last season ranged from $478k to $1.3m, depending on service time. While guys making the minimum aren’t doing that great in relevant terms, each and every player that gets a guaranteed minimum contract is in the “top 1%” that we hear so much about.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

by Roy_Hobbs on Oct 17, 2011 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

with the caveate, of course, that they only make that much for a short span of years.

In lifetime earnings, probably a significant chunk if not a majority of NBA players slip out of that 1% ranking.

I have a relative who managed to make about $1M via a couple of years in the NFL (as an offensive lineman for the Eagles) before giving up for a variety of reasons. He now makes ‘OK’ middle-income money working at a dealership. At least he and his young family have a nice chunk of ‘seed’ money going forward. But he is realistic that he’s got to manage that nest egg because he’ll never ever make that kinda money again.

It would be interesting to know if anyone has done any studies on lifetime earning profiles for pro athletes.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 17, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

the owners = Top 0.25%

and are claiming poverty… & somehow people are actually believing them…..

by D Dub on Oct 17, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

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