#NBAFanVoice: No More "What If's"

by Jeff Clark on Oct 17, 2011 4:00 AM EDT in Boston Celtics Articles

All I want is one more season with this group. Don't make me wonder "what if?"

This is part of NBA Fan Voice day. Please take part by tweeting, liking, or blogging (by Posting a FanPost) about #NBAFanVoice - a day when the fan's voice will be heard by everyone.

I'm getting really tired of the "what if" game. I'm not going to complain much, because the 2008 season was magical. Nobody can ever take away that epic NBA Championship over the hated Lakers. That is forever and that year alone made the Big 3 Era a success. That said, I can't help but wonder about what could have been.

What if Kevin Garnett didn't get hurt in 2009? What if Kendrick Perkins didn't get hurt in 2010? What if the Celtics could have held the lead in game 6 of that same year? What if Danny didn't make that trade for Jeff Green? What if Rondo didn't hurt himself last year? Maybe we wouldn't have won every year, but it hurts to know that events may or may not have derailed the effort before it could have happened.

Now we are staring, dumbfounded at another potential missed opportunity with the NBA Lockout. If we miss the whole season, will the Big 3 Era be over just like that? Without so much as a victory lap? If we get a shortened season but have to endure dozens of back-to-backs and the veterans are left with no gas in the tank for the playoffs, will it be a true representation of what they are capable of?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Celtics are favorites for the title anymore. There's a good enough chance that the team would simply not have the firepower to beat better teams this year as the core group ages. But they are still in the discussion. Like in 2010 when they had no business of making the Finals but still showed up and nearly pulled it off. They did that on heart and pride and none of that has changed with this team. Put them on the floor at full strength in the playoffs and I like our chances against anyone.

But to get there we have to have a season first. We have to talk backdoor cuts instead of basketball related income. We need a labor agreement and we need it soon.

In a sad twist, the Celtics seem to be in the middle of things. The owner (Wyc Grousbeck) was one of the poster boys for the "Hawks" group of hardliners (though that stance may have softened recently). Pierce and Garnett have been emotional leaders on the player side, rallying the union to stand strong against Stern and the owners. You'd think that both sides would be eager to get a season under way, but both sides (at least publicly) are looking out for other interests.

Of course you already know how much hogwash I think of all that. There will be no sympathy from me when stadium workers and fans from all walks of life are standing in the unemployment line and the billionaires and millionaires are squabbling over the billions of dollars of FAN generated revenue. I don't care who "wins" this battle. I don't care who "blinks" first. I just want basketball back and I'm tired of waiting.

But most of all I'm not ready to see a whole season (or even half a season) flushed down the toilet when the end of The Window is staring straight at me. I don't want to look back 10 years from now and think "I wonder what that group could have done with one more legit shot at it." If they play and lose, at least they'll have had the shot. No more "what if's."

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You missed one "what if"

What if Shaq had gotten hurt?

Man, did the C’s look really good with Shaq last year pre-achilles injury.

Sigh

" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)

by KG's Knee on Oct 17, 2011 9:13 AM EDT reply actions

Agree 100% KG's Knee

The C’s were a completely different and much more effective ball club when Shaq was healthy and playing.

He just gave them a different look and other dimension on both sides of the court.

Shaqs size, length and physicality (which the team lacked) was very valuable on the defensive end of the court and his great low post scoring presence (that the team seriously lacked) was great to see since the C’s were mainly a perimeter offensive oriented team on offense when he was out of the line up.

To bad he broke down with injuries.

I have personally stated many times and still can not get out of my head “what if” Shaq was healthy last year (along with the rest of the club) .
I think the C’s would of had a great shot at a another title.

Sigh….is right.

by fordescort on Oct 17, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions

No Regrets

Yes, there are alot of what if’s, but that’s basketball. We can always be grateful for the opportunity to win the whole thing in 2008, And we can find reasons why we couldn’t win it all in the following years.

But, one thing we’ve had the privilege to see since KG and Ray arrived is moments of great, pure basketball. We’ve seen many exciting games when buzzer beater plays, often involving Ray, took victories away from the opponent. We’ve seen moments of great passing, great team basketball, great characters and we’ve had so much to talk about.

We’ve seen the development of the best point guard in the game. If anyone doubts that just look back a few days at the clip of Rondo making that unbelievable pass for an alley oop.

And we’ve had 4 years where we had hope that we could win any game no matter what the circumstances. Compare that to the preceding 20+ years.

I hate this lockout. If owner’s can’t make money they shouldn’t own teams. It is depriving us of more moments of great basketball and this is probably the last year we will be able to see that. So lets just hope all this crap ends and we get our guys back on the floor.

"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn

by TrueGreen on Oct 17, 2011 10:18 AM EDT reply actions

Off Topic

The owners called for the lockout. The players aren’t being payed for missed games during the lockout, but they are paid for missed games due to injury or having to take care of personal problems.

The players signed contracts. Is there a clause in their contracts that allow the owners to not pay them during a lockout? Remember, the players are not on strike. I can’t imagine there is such a clause. If so, when this ends I hope the players call for a class action suit against the owners to regain the money they were illegally? deprived of.

"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn

by TrueGreen on Oct 17, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions

All the contracts are dependent on the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The old CBA expired and there are is no new CBA in effect. Thus all those contracts are basically in ‘suspended animation’. They basically don’t exist until a new CBA resurrects them.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 17, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

If This Is So

Does it also mean that all present contracts would be suspended when there is a new CBA agreement? I know it won’t, but I don’t understand, legally, why the CBA contract changes anything. The players and owners sign legal contracts. There would have to some clause in those contracts to change this and I don’t see how anyone on the players side would negotiate a CBA contract that would allow this.

I’m not arguing here. I just don’t get it. But I guess “it is what it is.”

"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn

by TrueGreen on Oct 17, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions

If there is a new agreement all the contracts resume immediately

It is different from their contracts being voided, it’s just the contracts aren’t active when there is no CBA.

by kg2128 on Oct 18, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions

This^

Basically all the contracts include language that references the CBA and are active so long as that is active.

Part of the language in the new CBA will likely be an agreement to grandfather and reactivate all prior contracts (barring any agreements to provide ‘bad contract amnesty’ – not likely, but possible).

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 18, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Thanks

I think I finally get it.

"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn

by TrueGreen on Oct 18, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions

I got one more "what if" remaining though

What if the negotiations aren’t over by the October of 2012?

by Wintersun on Oct 17, 2011 10:49 AM EDT reply actions

I can answer one of those 'what ifs'

If Perk doesn’t go down in 2010 we win that series. There is no doubt in my mind. We were up 3 games to 2, we had all the momentum, we had Kobe screaming at his teammates and acting like the child that he is. I hope that loss is the most awful thing I ever have to endure with a sports team.

But last year was a little different, that is a serious ‘what if’? I know we got housed by the Heat, but does our core (particularly KG and Pierce) play harder if Perk is there on the floor with them? Knowing how emotional those guys are, I don’t think anyone can say for sure that wouldn’t have been a closer series, who knows what could’ve happened… the same things they said about the Heat and Bulls last year they said about the Cavs and Magic the year before, and we embarrassed them out of their respective buildings. Just sayin’… (cue ‘Perk trade’ debate)….

by JunkyardDawg on Oct 17, 2011 11:52 AM EDT reply actions

To me, last year's "What if?" hinges more on

Rondo’s arm and the streakiness of outside shooting (theirs and ours).

A fully healthy Shaq would have been nice, of course …

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Oct 17, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Minus Perk

I don’t think KG, Pierce or any other player would have played harder if Perk was on the floor. What Perk did do is that he knew the defense and especially with KG they played and communicated well with each other. I think KG missed Perk the most because, with Perk he could defend freer knowing that Perk would be there to have his back.

Perk was also the one who was there when other defenders, often Rondo, let their man get by them.

I think, and I’ve said it often before, that what killed the chances of the Celts last year was the injury to Marquis Daniels. We lost alot of the bench when Baby needed to play more at Center. I also think Rondo was hurt more than anyone knows going into the playoffs. Also, if Delonte could have stayed healthy all year, Rondo would have gotten more rest during the regular season. And I don’t think Delonte was near 100% in the playoffs. I think the injury to Daniels necessitated the Perk trade. We could not win without a bench and this deal gave us a chance of having one. Unfortunately late deals like this usually just don’t give the new player and the team enough time to adjust to each other.

I agree that if Perk didn’t go down in 2010 we would have won that series.

And lastly, I think the Heat-Celtics series was closer than it appeared to be even with all the injuries. I think the Heat just wore us down so our main guys didn’t have their legs to finish games. With a full and healthy roster I think we would have beaten the Heat.

"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn

by TrueGreen on Oct 17, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions

No More "What If's"

I hear u Jeff Clark. Last night I was looking at the 2008 NBA Finals gm 6 on my laptop and it reminded me how great of a turn around season that was. The 2008 Celtics did what the Miami Heat couldn’t do in 2011. There’s always will be that what if factor lingering in the minds back of Celtics fans. What if KG didn’t get hurt in 2009? What if Perkins didn’t get hurt in gm6 of 2010 finals? What if Marques Daniels didn’t get hurt would Danny have done the trade? What if Shaq didn’t get hurt? What if Rondo didn’t dislocate his arm during game 4 of the 2011 semi-finals? Look at the pattern…all injuries from 2009-2011.

The Celtics were always plagued with unfortunate injuries especially with key players. I don’t care what sports bloggers, writers say about the Heat or Bulls. I believe had the 2011 Celtics roster had all healthy bodies there’s no doubt in my mind the C’s would of went to the finals and faced the Mavs.

The media put a complete spin on last seasons eastern conference ranks. The Celtics were depleted due to injuries and trades which led to inconsistency which led to the Bulls getting the first seed by default. But the C’s never used injuries as an excuse because they’re competitors. As for the Heat they struggled mightily during Feb and March, and got the second seed because they won the last meeting against the C’s, then the C’s lost to the Bulls.

I just want to see one more run…

by KWW on Oct 17, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions

What if Andrew Bynum didn't get hurt in 2008?

Well, for me the thing that stinks the most is what may happen to Danny’s plan especially if they allow for an amnesty in the new CBA. He inherited an awful situation and team. It took him a few years but he made the C’s relevant and also seemed to be setting them up pretty well in the post-big three era. The latter is one reason why he dealt Perk. He had many expiring contracts coming up and seemed to be getting the C’s in line to be a player in next year’s FA market. We aren’t going to win another championship with this group so work for two three years down the road and that’s what Danny was doing and now that might get screwed up.

by thereallargejames on Oct 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions

Then, LA would not have had any reason to steal Gasol away from Memphis

by Title 18 on Oct 17, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I have a personal list of my most painful "what if" moments in Celtics history...

since I started watching the C’s in the early 80’s.

They are painful at least for me and are :

What if the early 80 Celtic teams had a better relationship with Bill Fitch they could of maybe won a title or more with him as coach?
What if Max and Bird were not injured in the 85 finals the C’s may have won the title that year?
What if Mchale and Walton were not injured in the 87 finals, the C’s may have won the title that year?
What if Len Bias had not passed away in 86, he may have helped them win a title or 2?
What if Reggie Lewis did not pass away in the early 90’s he may have helped them win a title or 2?
What if Paul E. Gaston never was named chairman of the board, we may had never seen the C’s enter such a long title drought that they suffered ?
What if the Pitino era was a success instead of irrelevant?
What if KG did not get injured in 2009, the C’s may had won the title that year?
What if Perk and Rasheed were not injured in 2010, the C’s may have won the title that year.
What if last years Celtic team that started the season which was one of the deepest and talented teams in Celtic history was not so injury riddled and plagued, they may have won the title also.

As mentioned the above “what if” scenarios are painful for me , I just hope we have a NBA season this year so I do not have to add another one to the list such as:

What if there was a season in 2012, the big ( in there possible last season together) may have had a chance at another title.

by fordescort on Oct 17, 2011 6:49 PM EDT reply actions

Sorry...

Meant to say

…the “Big 3” …. in my last sentence above.

by fordescort on Oct 17, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions

What if...

The league best 63 win Celtics of 1982 {5 wins more than any other team} had not seen Tiny Archibald dislocate his shoulder in Game 3 of the playoffs vs. Philadelphia?

by Title 18 on Oct 17, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup...

Good pick up title18 as that is another sad “what if” moment in Celtics history.
That 82 team was a great team who’s season ended to prematurely and who had a great shot at winning a title.

I still remember the sight of Archibald on the floor holding his shoulder in pain and signaling to the bench for help.

It was kinda the same feeling I felt when Perk went down when he blew is knee in the 2010 finals.

by fordescort on Oct 17, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

1982 : Feb. 21-April 5

They lost only 1 game in that span of 43 days!

by Title 18 on Oct 17, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions

It was a

impressive run indeed.

It showed how talented that Celtic team was and how well of a coach ( at least I think) Bill Fitch was.

Though Fitch may have wore out his welcome with some of the players with his harsh coaching style and the end of the Fitch era brought us the very successful and more player friendly, mild mannered KC Jones era, I wish Fitch could of coached the team for at least a couple of more years to get a shot a couple of more titles because he was one of my favorite past Celtic coaches.

by fordescort on Oct 17, 2011 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions

You just made me very sad

thanks, dood.

by Wintersun on Oct 18, 2011 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry...

I felt bad also reliving those sad moments .

What hurts the most is if the C’s had better luck and avoided some of those “what if” moments mentioned above they may have had over 20+ titles won now, instead of only 17.

by fordescort on Oct 18, 2011 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Consider yourself fortunate....you missed out on 1973!

It was like 1982, but way worse.

Celtics won 68 games…Hondo was the one dislocating the shoulder…Celts lose to NY

by Title 18 on Oct 18, 2011 12:43 PM EDT reply actions

Yea

though I was born at that time I was just a small boy and not into basketball so was I guess lucky to miss out on the way that particular season ended for the C’s.

I feel the pain though of all who did live through it though, because it is no doubt another sad “what if” moment in Celtics history.

by fordescort on Oct 18, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions