Worst. Celtic. Ever. (Vote)
by Jeff Clark on Oct 25, 2011 9:17 PM EDT
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To start, we have to lay some ground rules. I was pretty vague in my solicitation for names and some great clarifying questions came out of it. In particular, what is "worst" and does "Celtic" include non-players? So here are the clarifications.
- Players only: I think we could do another category on owners, GMs, coaches, etc. and the choices would be pretty obvious. So lets stick to on-court performers (or non-performers as it were).
- At least (roughly) half a season. No 10 day contract guys. But guys picked up at the trade deadline or shortly thereafter are eligible. Looking at you Mikki Moore.
- Cost to the Celtics can factor in. Expensive free agents, high draft picks, and guys acquired via trade for lopsided compensation all have a relative value associated with them. So Vin Baker and Mark Blount might have had better stats than say Brian Scalabrine, but I value the red head much, much higher than those two stiffs. Also, Jerome Moiso might have scored more points than Joe Forte, but he was also a much higher draft pick.
- Impact on the Celtics can play a role too. While Gabe Pruitt was close to worthless, he was also the last guy on the bench while Eric Montross was once our starting center of the future.
- Don't bother trying to be objective. This is about as subjective as it gets.
With that as the backdrop, here are your best nominations (as decided by me).
The Big Money Guys:
- Mark Blount - Just go listen to this song. All that needs to be said.
- Vin Baker - Alcoholism is a disease. Appropriate because he made me sick. (Seriously though, I'm happy the guy appears to have turned his life around.)
The Bad Draft Picks:
- Gerald Green - couldn't find his way out of a wet paper bag but boy could he dunk. (Pick 18)
- Kedrick Brown - see Green, Gerald except that it was pick 11
- Eric Montross - 9th pick, center of the future, lasted 2 years
- Jerome Moiso - 11th pick, lasted a year
- Joe Forte - Maybe Red's worst pick ever but it only cost us a 21st pick
- Michael Smith - drafted ahead of Tim Hardaway, Shawn Kemp and others
The Other Guys:
- Mikki Moore - We were warned by Kings fans but we held out hope, for about a day.
- Shelden Williams - I'll never forget how badly he played in the Finals. Never.
- Patrick O'Bryant - I think he must have been the one that ignored KG's tutoring. Not a good plan.
- Acie Earl - 14 assists in 2 years in Boston
- Pervis Ellison - Never Nervous or Never Playing - you decide
- Stephon Marbury - big name, little game in Boston, headed for internet meltdown shortly after
Guys I Am Not Old Enough To Remember Clearly:
- Eric Fersten - has a boring wikipedia page
- Curtis Rowe and Sidney Wicks - "Come on, fellas, there ain't no W's and L's on our paychecks!" - Rowe
I'm sure I missed some, but feel free to correct me in the comments.
Lots of good (or bad) choices. Only one can be the worst. You decide.
Related: “The Worst Celtic Ever” Award: My nominations and winner | Celtics Town
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go Shelden! go Shelden!
Mr Williams has to be my choice. Just can’t get over him costing us a banner. Well, maybe it’s not entirely his fault, but he was just sore to watch.
BTW, have you guys seen a vid of Scal kicking butts in Italy? :) I know he’s no longer a Celtic, but I have a sympathy for a guy and he was mentioned in the thread. So, enjoy!
Scal's game translates well in the Euro game
.
More ball movement / teammate interaction
by GetYourSoxOn on Oct 27, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
just about everyone has at least one vote already
impressive
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
MB
At least Vin was a victim of a terrible adiction. Mark Blount has no excuse.
by NicaraguanFan on Oct 25, 2011 9:49 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
Good call
A poster boy for the evils of the free agent system in the 00s(rumor had it Obe wanted him bad in Phila. Shame DA couldnt have pulled a sign and trade instead of singing him to a bad deal he had to trade out of)
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
Selfish and Selfisher.....Rowe and Wicks.....If you young folk suffered through them......
you would all agree….He was Blount before Blount……ask Hondo how much he “enjoyed” playing with them….it must have killed him, the consummate Celtic, to endure the dual-headed anti-Celtics…..here’s why they are the worst….THERE WERE TWO OF THEM…
rowe & wicks
the darkest hour of celtics history
anyone voting for greg kite, eric fernstein, sheldon williams or mikki moore should have seen those 2
at least the second group above worked hard, kite & williams had some good games for us
Acie was horrible indeed...
Ex Celtic great Kevin Mchale might also agree…
One funny moment I will never forget involving Acie (in a non direct way) took place back in 1995 when Mchale at the time was being honored at halftime of a game when they raised his number 32 to the rafters of the old Garden.
Mchale that night visited the Celtics locker room when at the time Acie took over Mchale’s locker stall.
Cameras followed Mchale that day into the locker room and when Mchale came across his old locker stall and noticed of all players Acie, was assigned to it he could not believe it and cried out in a humorous manner:
“Oh, how the mighty have fallen,” “They’ve put Acie Earl in my locker.”
He then slid out Earl’s nameplate from the locker stall and hid it.
It was just great comedy to watch coming from Mchale at the expense of poor Acie…lol.
Jiri Welsch would have my vote
But of the above, I got to go with Moiso
by next boston gm on Oct 25, 2011 10:23 PM EDT reply actions
"we should have a biiiig Sebastain Telfair nite at the Gar'en! "
He definitely would take the “worst ad campaign” award
Rowe and Wicks
Thanks for including those two. Those guys were famous players making lots of money.
And they were two of the biggest losers I’ve ever seen.
by Emmette Bryant on Oct 25, 2011 10:32 PM EDT reply actions
Which is the reason why they were one of the worst Celtics
Very selfish ball players with horrible attitudes.
Pittsburgh Sports: Creating sports history and legends since 1887.
by Bradley James McEachern on Oct 26, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
They weren`t always stiffs...
Wicks & Rowe each won 3 straight NCAA championships at UCLA.
I would've picked someone...
I would’ve picked friggin Antoine Walker… goodness… the guys above are mostly role and garbage-time players anyway…
Though honestly, I wished Gerald Green would work out, didn’t realize he’s a lazy headcase as well.
by David Lee Tong on Oct 25, 2011 10:41 PM EDT reply actions
How is Gerald Green even up there?
This is in terms of WORST player. That guy had all the talent in the world.
"Worst" can mean a lot of things...
Gerald was a talented guy who was brain dead and who refused to put in the necessary work to succeed. He refused to pass, defend, or rebound. Relative to his talent level, he’s a candidate for one of the worst performers in Celtics history.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Oh, and he didn't know how to run a fast break...
It was amazingly frustrating to see our 6’8" athletic freak drift out to the corners to spot up every time we bad a break going.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
yeah but...
anyone that can incorporate pastry and fire into a dunk is okay in my book:
this is the best dunk i’ve ever seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1pU34h9AsU
Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk
This is a fun thread!
I’m not old enough to remember Rowe and Wicks, so I can’t comment on them. I wouldn’t put Marbury, Vin Baker, Blount, Sheldon Williams or Gerald Green on that list though. Marbury was by no means great, but had some decent moments for us in the playoffs, filled his role as the backup PG, and didn’t hurt the team. Baker had a pretty good stretch early in the 03-04 season. Definitely a horrible move that we made to acquire him, but he was a decent player when he was all there. Blount was definitely obnoxious and overpaid, but he also helped keep some horrible teams competitive. His jumper was automatic. By no means am I saying he was even a good player, but not the worst. Sheldon was horrible in the FInals, no doubt. But during the regular season, he gave us some pretty good minutes for much of the year. And Gerald just never developed. Being that young and playing on mediocre teams, not sure you can blame it all on him.
A couple people mentioned Dickau and Jiri Welsch – both great choices. Neither one of them did anything for us, and Welsch was supposedly a key piece to the first Walker deal.
Gabe Pruitt and JR Giddens both came to my mind, as they were relatively high picks that never came close to cracking the rotation.
However, to me, the worst Celtics player I’ve seen is Raef. Considering the money he was making, and that he was a big part of the Walker trade, this guy made me sick. One out of every ten games, he’d hit a few big 3’s for us. Other than that, he did nothing. Couldn’t rebound, couldn’t score inside, couldn’t defend, couldn’t protect the rim, and never stepped up as a leader when we desperately needed someone else to. Still don’t understand how he doesn’t get bashed more for what he did/didn’t do in Boston.
Sheldon had some great game as a celtic. In my opinion he wasn’t that bad in the finals, and he wasn’t given much playing time leading into the finals so he was rusty.
Glen Davis. Over played. Over payed. Over Rated. I’d vote for him i don’t like crying on the bench unless we are raising a banner.
Putting up 12 and 7 on a $3mil contract is being overpaid? That’s news to me. I get it if you don’t like Big Baby, he frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. But calling him the worst Celtic ever? Be reasonable.
by IsItTheShoes on Oct 26, 2011 1:28 AM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
not just about talent
Vin Baker had tons of talent – he was a several-times all star before he got fat and drunk – but he just did nothing redeemable in Celtic green
Antoine was seriously flawed and might have made the list just because he had SO much talent that he didn’t use properly, but he did do a lot of good things and I’m kind of fond of him despite his flaws
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
If I had a nickel...
…for every time I was screaming at the TV for Antoine to get down in the post instead of camping at the three point line, then maybe I could afford to pay the difference between the owners and players and get this 2011 NBA season kick-started back into gear.
Dude was unstoppable against small forwards from 10 feet in.
Well, that was fun!
Something to keep us occupied for a little while. Voted for Wicks and Rowe because I will never forget their anti-Celtic attitude.
Don’t know why my comments underneath didn’t get posted. Anyway, that was an enjoyable way to keep occupied for a little while since there is nothing else going on. Voted for Wicks and Rowe because I will never forget their anti-Celtic attitude!
Michael Smith
have to take into account
- the unfulfilled hype
- the high draft position where a number of other players taken after him were so much better (the big reason why I can’t pick Moiso—everyone sucked in that draft so it’s not like we missed out on a great alternative)
- the complete lack of any great (or good) moments in green (pretty much everyone else on the list had at least a good game or two if not more)
Just a complete waste. He was Adam Morrison before Adam Morrison was a sperm-in-waiting.
Though its tough to choose...
because there have been unfortunately some bad players in history I have to go retro and choose Eric Fernsten.
It would be interesting to have a money spent/awfulness ratio
It’s hard for me to get worked up about workaday players who just don’t have the goods like Shelden Williams. And unimpressive as Marbury was, we picked him up for a pittance, he didn’t work out, and we moved on. No harm done.
But who was the biggest bust for money we spent on him? (and I guess R*** P***** is out of this discussion because he did his damage in a jacket and tie)
My first thought too
There has to be some kind of efficiency ratio — what we (expected / paid) vs. (wins / value).
And RP is still one of the slimiest dudes around the game today.
No question in my mind
Michael Smith. That started a trend of poor picks. I believe we picked Bias the year before and the C’s were gun shy. They picked a guy from Utah who didn’t party and ended up with a person who could not play in the NBA. I still suffer from him because he does the local broadcasts for the Clippers. He’ll never go away.
by thereallargejames on Oct 26, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
I believe
Reggie Lewis was picked the year after Bias.
yes Lewis was 1987 out of Northeastern. Late first rounder.
Had he lived the Celtics would not have been so bad in the mid and late 90’s.
Ah ... Bias and Lewis ....
Just imagine what a duo they might have been …. sigh ….
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Amnesia?
I guess everyone forgot that BRIAN SHAW was a Celtic at one time. He left for Italy rather than play here, and then after agreeing to a deal with the C’s, went back on it and still refused, leading to a lawsuit.
Making matters worse, ended up in LA and won titles there…
WORST EVER!
by Red's Green on Oct 26, 2011 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Good point.
This is pretty damning.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Not Mentioned
Shaq aka The Big Disappointment
The guy played well for 1/3 of a season — just enough to get the hopes up in green nation.
His presence caused us to trade away our center of the future (Perkins).
And immediately after, the Diesel train broke down and completely derailed.
It put extra strain on the (already injured) franchise player of the moment (KG), and left us scrambling on the open market looking for win-now big men as the window is closing on the Big-3 era.
AND, last time I checked, the guy won 3 rings for LA and 0 for Boston.
So….. Shaq was one of the worst Celtics because he was injured a lot?
by IsItTheShoes on Oct 26, 2011 6:01 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Because expectations for his contribution left our front court in shambles. We all knew he wasn’t going to play the entire regular season. But he disappeared in the post-season where he was expected to perform. And at a time in the franchise where we’re finally contenders after the worst dry spell in franchise history.
And for the above mentioned reasons. We traded away our most consistent center — who was progressing very well in his rehab — and it cost us an Eastern Conference title (at least).
Now where is our big man situation at…?
It hurts the most when we’re that close to a ring — not when we’re already in a rebuilding mode.
I just don’t get why he gets a free pass.
Yea, he’s a funny guy. He’s great at marketing his own ‘brand.’ And he was one of the most dominant big men in the league… eight years before we picked him up.
But we had to know that he was on his way out of the league, and we still bet the house on him having that little bit left in the tank (which clearly wasn’t there).
You have to consider the risk / reward with any of the players we acquire as to their place in the team’s legacy. Almost all of the players mentioned were low-risk high-reward options (with Blount being the noticeable exception). There really wasn’t much of a downside if these guys didn’t pan out. And the guys that we did spend high draft picks on (like Gerald Green), we still managed to maneuver into a positive move (acquiring KG from trade).
We made a HUGE gamble on Shaq being our guy to carry us through to one more ring while our team still has the talent to get it done. But what did we get out of him? A gaping hole on our roster when we had one more chance for a ring before a clear rebuilding era. (And who knows how long that will last…)
Now we’re all left praying another center from Orlando falls into our lap…
Yes, it’s a bit strange to call a guy as talented as Shaq the ‘worst ever.’ But we’re clearly not talking about talent. We’re talking about their contribution to the team winning.
Marty Conlon anyone?
He should get some attention just because of that jump shot of his.
Vin Baker was going to win this race...but he staggered and fell at the end....and Mark Blunt passed him up and spit his gum on him
Is it Soup Yet?
Blount’s a worthy winner. Definitely worse than Baker.
by IsItTheShoes on Oct 26, 2011 6:06 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Olawakandi????
Dude was the biggest bust and wore GREEN.
Imagine
So many true disasters that ol’ Sheed didnt even make the list. Another honorable mention: Raef L’F.
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
Rasheed should have been on this list. Possibly winning.
If he could have come in here, been disciplined, hustled, been in shape, and not tried to ride everybody else’s work into a title, we could have won. We made it to Game 7. If he would have been dedicated, been in shape, and tried to play D and post up instead of shooting 834 3’s over the course of the season and getting damn near as many T’s, we might have won that series.
My God. Over 17 months later and I’m still not over losing that banner by 4 points. TO THEM!!!
Recent History
The plethora of recent candidates for “worst ever” is not jsut a “near memory” issue. It has to do with the matching salaries rule. To clear bad contracts, you had to take bad contracts.
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
WT?!?!
What the? Wheres Marcus Banks, Travis Knight or Tynus Edney?
where were you...
…when we were taking nominations?
Banks and Knight are good suggestions, I don’t think Edney really registered enough time to matter
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
Nice question..
For me…Eric Montross and Pervis “never nervous” Ellison!
how is Risky Davis not on this list????
the guy tried subvert Paul Pierce by playing keep-away with Blount and Marcus Banks. Pierce was the team captain for christmas sakes!!
My wife just said Len Bias and laughed hysterically.
Not to make fun of the dead. My wife is a very religious person. But look at what his irresponsibility did to this franchise. She may have a legitimate point.
But in any event, God rest his soul.
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