The importance of inside scoring - why I think this team is upgraded.
So at this point, it looks like Danny has probably finished all his moves. There is still a slim chance he may pull something else off, but any further moves become very, very difficult. Not only is Danny more constrained by CBA rules (he can't move folks that he has just officially signed for 90 days) but so also are other teams with many of their players.
So my assumption is that at this point, this is our probable roster going into the 2011-2012 season:
C: Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Wilcox, Greg Stiemsma
PF: Kevin Garnett, Brandon Bass, JaJuan Johnson
SF: Paul Pierce, Jeff Green, Marquis Daniels, Sasha Pavlovic
SG: Ray Allen, Avery Bradley, E'Twaun Moore
PG: Rajon Rondo, Keyon Dooling
A lot of folks look at that and are not excited. They ask, "Wilcox? Stiemsma? Bass? Who are these guys?" and "Where is the big name scorer Danny was supposed to add?" Further, they complain that with Rondo and his supposed outside scoring deficiencies, that our offense will continue to stagnate like it did in the second half of the season last year.
My contention is that the above DOES represent a signficantly upgraded team on offense and that the reason why has to do with the 'no name' interior big men we added. I'll explain my reasoning after the jump.
First off, let's deal with some myths.
The first one is that Rondo has no outside shot. This is simply and provably not true. He took the 2nd most of his shots from 16-23 feet last year and shot a very healthy 41%. You can argue that he benefits in that from defenses 'sagging off' of him, but that doesn't change the fact that those shots went in for him at a rate much higher than many 'name' shooters like Russel Westbrook, Dwayne Wade and others. It's also important to note that that number was not a small-number statistical fluke because he has shot well from that range for most of his NBA career.
Still, critics contend the problem then is that Rondo still doesn't take enough _volume_ of shots, instead trying to boost assist numbers. That is basically a contention that Rondo is somehow 'selfish'. I would argue that what he is doing is trying to maximize the scoring efficiency. On each possession of the ball you only get one 'first shot' and you want to miss that shot as little as possible because whenever you miss a shot, the defense tends to grab it 2/3 of the time. While Rondo was definitely better than average at that outside jump shot, it was always a better idea to try to get an even higher percentage shot off -either by feeding someone inside - where FG% shoot up to ~65% or to dish on the outside to someone like Ray, KG, Paul or Jeff Green in THEIR best shooting locations. If the team MUST take a shot from that range, you wanted it from a guy like Jeff Green (51%), KG (47%) or Ray (46%). But by far, the preference is to generate scoring at the rim. When you take shots at the rim, more go in than miss. That means fewer end up in the hands of the defense.
So, you don't necessarily need scoring to come from Rondo to boost your offensive output. What you _need_ is whatever helps you take, as a team, more high percentage shots and fewer low percentage shots.
The road to higher percentage shots is NOT through taking more outside shots.
The most dominant 5-man unit in the NBA last year was Shaquille O'Neal + Big 4 in the first half of the season. That unit had the biggest net possession efficiency because it was both lock-down on defense and unstoppable on offense. And that did not at all require any sort of volume scoring by Rondo.
The reason that unit was so successful was very simple: Team's could not use their bigs to double team both KG or Shaq without the other being covered by a wing and even if they sagged a wing to help double on one of them then that left the other single covered, not to mention left Ray, Paul or Rondo open. When teams sagged off Rondo, he had a clear passing lane to either Shaq or KG inside. When they didn't, he blew by them and either laid it up or dished out as the defenses collapsed.
Unfortunately, of course, Shaq got hurt and what could have been an easy ride to a title evaporated. Now, when Jermaine O'Neal or Semih Erden were in at C, we weren't quite the same dominant force, but both those guys still commanded enough attention inside that their defenders could not abandon them. Both JO and Semih were long enough they were not easy to block and good enough touch shooters so you could not leave them alone down low. Thus double teams on KG had to come from smaller defenders leaving Ray, Paul or Rondo alone. So even with JO or Semih in at C, our offense still could generate points.
So then we come to Glen Davis. When we had BBD and KG in together, initially it was okay. In fact they were damn good. In the first half of the season, BBD would bang inside and played within the offense, keeping the ball moving until it found the best shot. In the latter half of the season, though it was less and less effective. BBD gained more and more weight, hurt his knee, had no lift inside and could not score inside because he'd get blocked. And so he'd shift more and more to the outside and the ball would sink into his hands and he'd take a low-percentage _even though uncontested_ shot from 18 feet!
People complain about how team's would 'sag off Rondo' - but that wasn't the main problem. We have numerous plays for defeating the under-screen defense on Rondo. Red's Army posted a real nice article detailing how we do this. The problem was that defenses would ALSO sag off BBD whenever he popped outside. BBD was/is a FAR WORSE shooter than Rondo from outside AND is not a threat to suddenly blow by you on the dribble. Teams began to sag off BBD and dare him to shoot. This let the defense drop his big into the paint to help double KG and otherwise clog the paint.
So BBD would find himself alone outside, wide open and would take those shots. Lots of them. He took the biggest share of his shots from 16-23 feet. Unfortunately, he shot _terribly_ from that range. Just 35%!!! To give you some perspective, practically EVERY one of our main-rotation players can shoot that shot at a MUCH higher percentage. I gave you some numbers up above. League average from that range was 39.4% . BBD very simply was killing our efficiency.
I can't stress how schizoid BBD's season was. In the first half, we were practically as good with him in the lineup as with Shaq. In the second half, it was just awful. Now, part of that was utilization and matchups. Early in the season, BBD joined the Big 4 often as PF off the bench, with KG shifting to C against non-dominant C's. But with Shaq, JO & Semih out, BBD was more and more on the floor with KG against starting unit bigs. That combined with his own weight gain and knee injury probably is what lead to the sudden down spiral of his game.
So BBD went from potential 6th Man winner to problem child, we lost Shaq after half a season, JO ended up missing most of the regular season, Semih's shoulder became so bad even he could not play, Perk came back back briefly but wasn't really very effective - especially on offense - and got injured again just as BBD ALSO got injured. We had no true center anymore. We made the trade and had a momentary uplift with Krstic but then HE got banged up! The second half of the season our efficiency steadily got worse and worse. And it was largely because of no offensive presence in the post.
So now we come to this year's new squad. BBD is gone. Shaq, Semih, Krstic & Perk are also all gone. Our crew of bigs this year includes:
Greg Stiemsma 6-11 260 C
Jermaine O’Neal 6-11 255 C/PF
Kevin Garnett 6-11 253 PF
Chris Wilcox 6-10 235 C/PF
JaJuan Johnson 6-10 221 PF
Jeff Green 6-9 235 SF
Brandon Bass 6-8 250 PF
Now, that crew includes a lot of individual question marks. But it also includes a lot of length and size. That's five guys listed over 6-10. I'm going to submit that overall, if healthy, that crew of bigs represents a serious upgrade for our offense over what we had in the second half last year.
Ignoring KG, the four guys I expect to get time at C are JO, Wilcox, Stiemsma and Bass.
JO did not show a lot of offense last year, because he just didn't have enough time to get in the flow of things offensively, but he normally is a pretty good offensive post presence that may not be 'Shaq-like', but if healthy, he definitely cannot be ignored in the post. Over his career, he has always been a very good shooter (mid 40s%) at all ranges out to past 16 ft and he can definitely finish at the rim when in close.
Similarly, Wilcox and Bass are both very good offensive players. Wilcox is a decent jump shooter, not as good as JO or Bass, but he is fantastic at the rim. That alone means that if team's try to cheat off him to double KG, he's going to kill them inside.
Because, like BBD, Bass is undersized, he also tends to pop outside a lot and takes a large share of his shots from 16-23 feet, but unlike BBD, Bass is a very _good_ outside jump shooter. He hit that 16-23 footer at a 47% clip last year! So unlike BBD, he will force his defender to come out with him which _benefits_ our offense.
Stiemsma is an X-factor. What little we do know is mainly about his defense, but he moves well in the post and has the size and length to finish at the basket and if given the ball inside he is not going to get blocked easily like BBD was. So even HE cannot be simply ignored on offense. This kid is huge and strong. If his man tries to cheat and double on KG, Rondo can oop-to-him and he will finish over any smaller defender. So if nothing else, Stiemsma will force defenses to play honest.
On the other end of the court, there is legitimate question about defensive drop-off from Wilcox and Bass, neither of which are known as great defensive centers. Bass, when at the 5 should mostly be situational though. I doubt Doc will have him there against really big Cs. And I expect both of these guys to benefit from playing with KG and Jermaine, two of the best defensive bigs of the last decade. Stiemsma comes with excellent defensive credentials (albiet from college and D-league) and I think he's going to be fine on defense.
Having bigger - and healthier - bodies in the post on defense should be good for our defense. And we all know that getting stops on defense is another key to getting our offense running.
In other words, a healthy JO plus Wilcox+Bass+Stiemsma at C (not to mention having JaJuan's length at PF off the bench) should result in a significant upgrade in our inside scoring over what we had in the second half of last year. Obviously, the word 'healthy' is a key factor in that statement.
The key to a high-efficiency offense is, as I said, scoring (or at least the THREAT to score) inside. In the first half of last year, we were ridiculously dominant in that. Then Shaq, JO & Semih got injured, Perk got injured, BBD got fat and injured and the wheels just slowly came off.
In closing - It's interesting to note that KG's biggest offensive explosion in the playoffs came in the Miami game that we got 8 1/2+ minutes from Shaq and another 21 1/2 minutes from JO. And only 10 minutes of BBD. Just 30 minutes of O'Neal Brothers and *BOOM* KG erupted for 28 pts and we won that game by 16 over Miami.
Sadly, Shaq only managed another 3 minutes the rest of the way.
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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Very nice post!
I guess this is what I was trying to show as well using my other post, but you made it clearer and backed it up with more statistics. The truth is everyone seems underwhelmed by our acquisitions, but they feel very good to me, precisely because of your reasons in this post.
Many people forget that by fielding a lineup that consists of pairing KG with any of BBD, Krstic, or Green, KG was being forced to be an inside presence, which we know he is not. All the rest of those bigs hardly play inside. That is precisely why our lineup of KG along with JO, although he was not an integral part of the offense due to his limited games played, flourished. Teams would have to respect KG from the place where he took his most efficient shots, and they wouldn’t have the luxury to double him because of an inside presence like JO.
With these big men additions, especially if they stay healthy, I think we’re going to be good. It would allow us to stick to our offense without being suffocated by a mediocre jump shooter like BBD. Aside from that, and this is probably my favorite part of the big men additions, we have legit athleticism inside.
Good work, man!
Exactly.
I should point out that YOUR post did a better job of covering a lot of the other reasons to like this team’s chances.
Plus you included vids which are a lot more exciting than stats!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Interesting read
and I certainly the comprehensiveness. I agree with a lot, and share some of your optimism.
Of course, I tend to look at our bench as a complete unknown, although that outlook is obvious and requires no prediction
Ultimately we will find out what’s true, beginning December 25th
I still can’t get behind your continued defense of Rondo’s jumpshot, but do agree that perhaps some of the woes are overstated.
[IMG]http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/irondan1/vitalypotapenko.jpg[/IMG]
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Dec 13, 2011 2:09 PM EST reply actions
Thanks!
That’s a fair take as well. I should be clear that its not that I don’t think Rondo’s jump shot could use improvement. Improvement is always good! I just think that it’s not as important as other things – such as improving his free throws!!!!
Seriously, if he could improve his FT% by ~10% to get it up above the 70% threshold, then that would have a major, major impact on his game and on our offense. That would totally transform what he and the team would be able to do late in games.
Conversely if he improved his outside FG% from 41% to … what? 45%? That would be only a marginal, tiny impact on things.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
definitely agree on the
free throws. ON jumpshooting, I continue to believe that the mere threat of Rondo being able to hit that jump shot would have a greater positive effect on our offense than the marginal increase you mentioned.
Not that Rondo hasn’t been known to carve up defenses that sag off of him either. It’s just that with his ability to get to the rim, and the ability of those around him to stick open j’s, if you had to respect rondo’s jumper…Of course, that’s my opinion and I’ve been wrong before.
That said, sometimes i feel like I come off overly critical of Rondo. It’s just that I think he has so much potential, and free throws/jumpshooting are facets of a game that can be learned, albeit not necessarily easily.
Where as, you can’t teach heart, athletic ability, or great vision, and Rondo has those. I only disparage him in relation to to the best PG in the league, and it frustrates me because I think he has that potential.
Again, he’s my favorite player, but in my stance that CP3 is better for the Celtics, sometimes I may come off as anti-Rondo, when there is literally only 1 player I’d prefer at the PG position, and even that is only true from a basketball perspective, not a fan’s
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Dec 13, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
I’ve always liked your postings, and this point about Rondo improving his free throw shooting is the key to the entire Celtics season (barring injury or major dropoffs, of course). Of course he has to also get to the rim and try to score more often. His FTs per game dropped to a little over 1 over the last part of last year because he was afraid of shooting free throws. This had ripple effects for the entire offense: he didn’t attack the rim and get easy baskets because he didn’t want to get fouled; his at-the-basket shooting percentage dropped pretty dramatically, I assume because he rushed shots before he could get fouled; the other guys on the court were easier to defend because they knew Rondo was going to pass; etc.
This year, if he gets to the line five or six times a game and make three or four (under 70%), our offensive efficiency improves three points or more a game, putting us in the top 10 instead of being below average. Y
Great post!
Go Celtics! I can’t wait to see Rondo lobbing the ball up to our new big that can jump. Awesome! 2008 was complete unknown too.
Interesting stuff.
Well comprised argument, hard to deny there’s probably a lot of truth in that.
The moves Danny made didn’t grab any headlines, but they may pay huge dividends in the long run.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
wow
nice analysis…..no wonder i didnt want BBD on the team any longer….lol
You ....
do not post fan posts too often mmmmm, but when you do you make it count…lol.
Though I appreciated many aspects of your post, the portion I liked best was when you stated :
“The key to a high-efficiency offense is, as I said, scoring (or at least the THREAT to score) inside”
and
“In the first half of last year, we were ridiculously dominant in that”
As many probably know I have probably been the most vocal person in recent years stressing how I think the C’s need more of a in the paint offense scoring presence to add balance to there perimeter based offense.
I also was a very vocal and big supporter of Shaqs low post scoring last year, that gave the C’s offense another dimension to there offense and made them a much tougher team to beat.
For that reason I am happy to see I am not alone in hoping the C’s will have more of a inside scoring presence this year.
Though we may not have the greatest inside the paint scorers on the current roster there is no reason that the C’s can not get all there bigs more touches in the paint which will not only yield higher shooting %‘s , but can help get opposing bigs in foul trouble and maybe out of games to change the complexion of games to the C’s favor possibly.
For starters since both KG and JO. both have low post scoring skills Rondo needs to set them up in the paint to assure they get more scoring opportunities in the block.
Last year Rondo did not seek getting either KG or JO touches in the paint and both players did not seek to get in the paint, which I hope will not be the case this year as both players as mentioned above do have low post scoring capabilities which I hope they will utilize.
When J.J. and Green are in the game since they both have decent low some low post scoring skills, they also need to be setup in the paint as much as possible also which will also supplement there perimeter jump shot capabilities.
Though Wilcox and Bass are not as talented scoring in the paint as the above players they also should be setup at times in the paint ( the way the C’s did at times with Perk) , to get them as many easy and high % scoring opportunities as possible and to also put as much pressure on the opposing bigs as well.
The C’s have a nice perimeter scoring game and capabilities, but when they over rely on there perimeter offense, I think it does not make them as effective or as a dangerous club as when they add a low post scoring threat and presence to there offense.
Yes the C’s may not have any Mchale, Sheed or Shaq quality caliber low post scoring players on there roster, but they do have bigs who can get some points in the paint, so I hope the goal will be to try to do get them more points in the block this year since I think it will make the C’s a better team overall.
one minor correction
Wilcox is actually very good at scoring in the paint. In fact it could be argued that is his only real ‘plus’ value – he’s very good offensively close to the basket.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
70%
at the rim the last two years, which is way above the league average, and that’s without anyone like Rondo (or Pierce or Garnett for that matter) passing the ball to him. Also a 22% defensive rebounding rate the last two years—not elite, but very, very good. I look forward to seeing what Wilcox can do with the starters at least a few minutes a game.
I agree Wilcox..
does have good in the paint scoring abilities and does seek to get in the paint more often to score then KG, J.O. Green and maybe even J.J. which I like.
My only point is that I think ( and its arguable) that KG, J.O. Green and J.J all have better pure inside the paint scoring skills then Wilcox.
I think if KG, J.O. Green and J.J can utilize those scoring skills and get in the paint as often as Wilcox does it would be great and beneficial for the C’s in my opinion.
Yeah, I'm not going to argue that KG, JO, JG & JJ aren't all good post players.
They are all, imho, far better bball players and generally show that when they post up. I’m just pointing out that in this one area, that’s where Wilcox is very good, too. In this one area, you don’t have to tag him with the ‘not as talented’ qualifier.
In other areas, probably so.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I think considering ...
I think that KG, J.O. ,Green and J.J. have better pure low post scoring skills (when they do try to score in the paint , which is not often enough for my taste) then Wilcox,
I think its a fair statement to say Wilcox is “not as talented” scoring in the paint “compared to them” .
Again I am not saying Wilcox is not a talented in the paint scorer, as this is one key aspect of his offensive game he does well and does alot better then alot of other bigs in the NBA.
I am just saying I think KG, J.O. Green and J.J. are slightly better talented at scoring in the paint when (and this is key) they seek to get in the paint and score, which is seldom unfortunately I think.
Its odd but even though Wilcox may not ( I think) posses as great a pure low post offensive game as KG, J.O. Green and J.J. , since he is aggressive and does seek to score more often in the paint then them (maybe to the exception of J.J.) Wilcox may end up being our best low post scoring big this year nevertheless….
Which I will like to see since I think the C’s need to increase there low post scoring offense production to supplement and balance there perimeter offensive game.
I like the post but...
until I actually see Wilcox and Steimsten (sp) play I am nervous. I’ve seen Bass play a game (and against us) and he KILLED us – ate us alive.
I'm not the Devil's Advocate but I consiider him a close friend
I concur with the trepidation - especially about Stiemsma who could be anything from complete crap to a surprise christmas cookie
but Wilcox is actually a fairly known quantity. He’s a 9 year vet who’s logged a lot of minutes with 5 different teams. He’s not know widely by fans because well, those 5 teams all totally sucked. But Wilcox has been a fairly consistent performer during all that. He’s played with both Ray Allen and Jeff Green in the past.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Love your work mmmmm!
I’ve got real confidence in this team Ainge has assembled – I think we’re well placed for a deep playoff run.
"Can't eat sushi in Utah, brother. Landlocked."
Excellent post as per your usual standards..
Paolost had an excellent post, and this is a great follow up; between your two posts you’ve managed to create a very positive atmosphere for the beginning of the truncated season.
Jermaine O’Neal has to stay healthy, which is always a big ’ if ‘, but if he does, he feels as though he has a lot to prove, after last year.
Make no mistake about it, although his best years are probably behind him, he was a six time all star in the not too distant past, and he’s still only 33 yrs, old, although, like KG, he has a lot of mileage on his wheels. If he can provide a solid 20 + minutes, up to 30, then we should be in great shape inside, with KG beside him.
I do feel that, on paper, at least, there’s been an improvement in the bench, but as always, that’ll be a ’ wait and see ’ situation.
Hopefully, the fan base will give this squad time to gel without all the naysayers jumping on the bandwagon of negativity, with every back to back loss. Fully half the team has been replaced, and we’ll have not only a shortened season to get the act together, but very limited practice time in which to do it.
Rondo’s free throw shooting has to improve, in order for him to provide that extra scoring threat. Hopefully, he’s coming into this season with a new found maturity, as he will be expected to lead this team by example. The captain still hasn’t given away his stripes, but it’s now on Rondo to prove that he’s up to taking over in the very near future.
Hopefully, this squad will stay healthier than the torn up remnants of what started out to be a great team last year; if so, I’ll take our chances with just about any other team.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix | International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ] | Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
Yeah, last year "on paper" our bench looked great too.
And for the first half of the season, we were world-beaters.
Then the injuries just ripped our hearts out.
Gawd I just can’t believe we could possibly get bit so hard again. Can we? Please, Karma, please!!!! Be nice!!!
And yeah, improved FT% by Rondo would be absolutely wonderful. But I’m afraid that might be too greedy to ask for.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
It's not too greedy at all to wish for improvement.
There’s an old adage that covers that wish: shoot for the stars, you may hit the sun; shoot for the sun, you may hit the moon; shoot for just the moon, you may wind up down on earth, stuck in the mud.
BTW, [ on a side note ] this is one of the reasons that I have respect for Danny Ainge, in spite of some of his missed efforts- he’s not afraid of shooting for the stars.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix | International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ] | Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
Celtics
All go with what we have and should start running right from the start we have the players
for something with alot of movement and screening.
We definitely still need a center...
but with limited options, let’s make do with what we have.. Our battlecry for this year should be… “Only B*tches Whine!”
Interesting write-up
… but you glossed over Rondo’s atrocious (I mean absolutely abysmal) free throw shooting percentage in the beginning of the article. His outside shooting is sub-par, but his free throw shooting is really the most glaring insufficiency in his offense. He uses his quickness and ball-handling acumen to get to the rim, but if a defender challenges the shot, his shies away from the contact, which alters his shot and markedly reduces his scoring efficiency. He is a liability in late game situations, plain and simple. It is obvious his free throw woes have had some psychological affect on his decision making process in close games too. Unfortunately, this is an issue he should have been able to mitigate easily, yet he hasn’t; in fact he has been regressing.
I don't disagree (heck, I mentioned in a comment just a little above this)
but that wasn’t the focus the article, which was mainly about the guys at the 5 spot.
I definitely think that FT% is THE most important skill that Rondo needs to improve on and that improving that just a little bit would have a huge impact.
That said, I think his other skills are so valuable that I disagree that he is truly a ‘liability’ in late game situations. So long as there are 4 options on the floor who can shoot FT% then the fact that Rondo can’t doesn’t really cause much problem running late-game plays. When Perk was our main C, then it was a problem. But not so much when we’ve had JO or BBD on the floor (though BBD presented his own issues).
With our current bigs, Wilcox and Stiemsma are both poor FT shooters, so that is a concern again, with them. However both JO and Bass both shoot FTs very well so I expect one of those guys to be at C at the end of games.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
WELL DONE!
A well done post, just in time,
(You knew I’d have to comment in rhyme),
Well thought out, with a positive bent,
Reminding us we’re we’re glad Baby was sent.
Lucky to have those Bigs, know what you mean,
Wish your great posts weren’t so few and far between.

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