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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Critical Lessons From The Lakers

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It's true, of course, that the Cs were undermanned in their 2nd meeting with the Lakers. But it was still an excellent opportunity to see where they need to improve.

The main problem was on offense, where Rondo's deficiencies glared in the harsh spotlight of the Lakers' defense. At one point during LA's run in the 2nd quarter, RR had taken several WIDE OPEN, easy jumpers, and missed them all. In each such possession, Cs were one and done. All while Kobe was running around, sagging off RR and wreaking havoc with his D.

Star-divide

It's likely Doc saw this and reacted by calling out the changes we saw later in the 2nd half.... when, especially in Q4, the Cs basically gave up on having Rondo handle the ball and initiating plays. Unfortunately, that didn't work out very well either, as everybody (just about) had a bad night shooting -- not so surprising when Rondo's not feeding them the ball at the perfect times and spots for the easy ones.

This team sings when Rondo's distributing like only he can. They can still get it done without the kid at the helm... but usually not as well. Sometimes, like in this game, not at all.

This, then, is the Celtics' Achilles heel -- Rondo's jumper. The funny thing is, RR reportedly makes those shots like candy in practice. So the problem is clearly between his ears. Pressure getting to him, confidence gone AWOL.
I believe this will HAVE to change for the Cs to be truly ready to win the ring this year.

Which is probably why Doc told Rondo to take those 1st half shots in the first place. Doc's TRYING to get Rondo over the hump on this, his last major deficiency.

And that process needs to continue until it succeeds. Because if he can master his nerves on that short in-game jumper, the Lakers' (and other teams') strategy of sagging off him would collapse in a heap, mighty quick. (Imagine a FG% of around 80%, as Rondo hits one easy, wide open jumper after another!)

Of course, they might lose a few more games while Rondo's trying to get there. But that's a price the Cs have to pay. Having Rondo shoot hoops in practice is just not enough.

In a way, then, that 2nd Lakers game was highly instructive for this team. It revealed -- not for the first time, but quite dramatically -- a key factor that the Cs must work on in these remaining months, before the playoffs.

Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.

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Good point, but 80% is nearly impossible.

Consider this, Steve Nash, widely considered one of the most deadly PGs in the game at the shoulder 10-15ft jumper… shoots 57.8% from there… and that’s his best % in the past 5 years.

So your point is solid, but he’ll never get 80%, no one does. 45-50% is where we should be aiming.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, of course 80% isn't happening

…but my point is that if he’s so WIDE OPEN — which he is — he should/could, theoretically anyway, hit it like it’s a FT. Oh wait…. this is Rondo…. But you know what I mean……….

by DRJ1 on Feb 11, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He's already there...

He shot 46.9% from 10-15 feet in 2009-2010. See for yourself: http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rajon%20Rondo

This season, with half as many attempts, Rondo is shooting much lower, but wild swings in percentage from various spots on the court is somewhat typical. And while Rondo’s % from 10-15 has fallen with fewer attempts (from .8/game last season to .4/game this season) , his % from 15-23 feet has improved with more attempts (from 2.3/game to 3/game). He now shoots the 15-23 ft jumper better than Rose, Westbrook, and Tony Parker to name a few.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 11, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

People look at one game samples like LA and don’t realize how much he’s improved.

He’s still streaky obviously, but he’s been much better at it. I fully expect there to be a game soon where LA employs that same “Have Kobe play free safety” defense, and Rondo gets hot and burns them. It just didn’t happen yesterday.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

and the fact is, jump shooting as an art is simply fundamentally ‘streaky’ period.

No one consistently shoots ‘their average’ for jump shots in every game. It just doesn’t happen.

by mmmmm on Feb 11, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

He needs to be able to do that under pressure too

…I.e., in BIG games. That’s probably why Doc had him take all those shots in this particular game. He’s gotta get over his nerves, because playoff games are certainly going to be MUCH BIGGER, with even more pressure.

by DRJ1 on Feb 11, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Hate to disagree, but Rondo doesn't get nervous about shooting after four years.

 Rondo may not take the shot at times, because he’s always looking for the best available shot and trying to make the pass for that shot, but not shooting because of nerves- uh, uh. He’s already been there, done that, as far as his shooting goes.

He still has to improve his jumper, for sure, and his free throw shooting, and that’s still a work in progress.

 My favorite example of a great passing and shooting point guard is Steve Nash, and when Rondo can shoot like Nash, he’ll be the greatest P.G. in the league, bar none.

Lygafe

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix

http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/

http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe

http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2

International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]

Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]

http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions

by lygafe on Feb 11, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

True

But in total _point_creation_ Rondo is already very close to Nash.

And Rondo is already much better defensively.

When you factor in both offense (point creation) and defense, I really think that it comes down to Chris Paul and Rondo as the top two overall PGs and how you rank those then becomes a matter of flavor preference.

by mmmmm on Feb 11, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You'll notice that I never mention Nash and defence in the same sentence-on purpose.

Lygafe

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix

http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/

http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe

http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2

International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]

Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]

http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions

by lygafe on Feb 11, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I would take Deron Williams over Rondo, as well as Chris Paul

And maybe next year Rose might pass him. That is it, though Westbrook may also become a great one.

by vinnie on Feb 11, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

His problem is not "not shooting" when the pressure is highest

…it’s making his shots. It just seems that when the pressure is on — when it’s a big game and Kobe’s sagging and RONDO’S THE MAN — he loses his nerve, and misses one after the other. (It’s not like this is easy stuff… just sayin’ he’s not stepping up under max pressure.)

And I think that’s why Doc chose THIS game to have Rondo take all those shots. He must have known Kobe would sag, and he wants to make sure his PG can take and make the necessary easy jumpers when the pressure is on, and all eyes are on him to get it done.

In this, Rondo failed this time. So I think he needs to keep working on it, especially when the pressure is on, until he gets it right.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm with DRJ1

It IS mental, as his pathetic 26% ft shooting in the Finals proved.

Who thought when he went to the line late in the 4th Q that he would make them both?

And although 80% is obviously an exaggeration, if he could hit the open jumpers well enough to stop the opponents from cheating on him, the team would be unbeatable.

(You could see the same strategy of playing off Rondo employed by Silas in the Bobcats loss, where Rondo shot 4-13)…

by nba is the worst on Feb 12, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Not the big games, but...

I think you are right about his nerves getting in the way. But I think his biggest problem is, when there are no other options than his shot. His shooting percentage from long range is alright when it is 4th or 5th option in a possession. But last night there wasn’t enough movement (Pierce with the flu, Perkins looking like he had just recently come back from injury etc.), and only Ray and Wafer were really involved. And when Kobe backed down to help on defense, there was only one option left. That is what puts pressure on Rondo (much more than the importance of the game), since he doesn’t get the feeling that the game is coming to him.

by European NBA fan on Feb 11, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Agree. When the spotlight is directly on him to make that shot…. he loses it. That’s a tough thing to master, for sure…. so I hope he gets it before the playoffs, because we can be 100% certain that the Cs are gonna see this defense then. 100%.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

I don’t think this will happen too often in a 7 game series with LA. Having said that, I don’t think C’s will be shooting 60% for a whole 7 game series either.

So in the end, I think WITH a healthy roster we beat LA hands down in finals

by vgarcia890 on Feb 11, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

…I think it will happen in every one of those 7 games (if it goes that far). But NOT if he starts making his jumper-under-pressure. If he masters that one thing… then there is NO DEFENSIVE ANSWER for Rondo and the Celtics in general. How cool would that be?!

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

True, no question

…just looking beyond that… at other lessons that can help make the team better.

by DRJ1 on Feb 11, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

During the five games West played

West played down the stretch in a few games because he could make the open shot. This team is Rondos team,but with West a okay passer,but a better shooter. The Celtics might have to use West down the Road in certain matchups. Who knows what kind of change would have happened last night with West at point for awhile? West could be this years James Posey kind of player. He just hasn’t got the chance yet.

by green20 on Feb 11, 2011 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

Excellent point.

Unless we see more steady improvement in Rondo’s FTs (He’s shown improvement, but is still streaky) it’s entirely possible you’ll see West at the end of games on a regular basis.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

No we won't

There’s a reason this team’s offense goes into the toilet when Rondo leaves the court, and there’s a reason why running the offense through Paul when Rondo’s on the court often leads to contested jump shots and bad offense—THIS TEAM IS BUILT AROUND RONDO’S FACILITATION PROWESS.

Putting D-West on the court to finish games will just take the Cs out of their comfort zone on offense, and lead to more isolation basketball, contested jump shots, and bad offense. Our scorers should do the scoring and our passers should be passing—yet by taking the ball out of Rondo’s hands we end up making our scorers into passers and our passers into scorers.

Rondo’s shot about 70% from the line since January 1st. He’s a streaky shooter and he’ll only get better if he learns to get to the line consistently. Part of the reason he’s so streaky is that he goes entire weeks without shooting one FT in a game. You can’t built up a rhythm and confidence unless you get a lot of game reps to do so.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 11, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a tricky question

Will RR be able to hit his FTs when the pressure is seriously on? And if not, would they be better off with West at the end? Gotta mull that one over…. it’s not obvious, I think.

by DRJ1 on Feb 11, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Tend to agree with SAMP here.

This team’s efficiency on offense and defense works best by far with our starting 5 on the court and it is not close. And that includes Rondo at point.

Where West will have huge impact is in helping to keep Rondo and Ray rested for those stretch minutes at the end of games.

The problem exhibited last night – Kobe disrupting our offense by the way he sagged off Rondo – was facilitated less by Rondo’s supposed inadequacies as a shooter and more by the fact that Paul Pierce was clearly feeling miserable and not playing up to par. Not only did that mean that Pierce was rarely their as a scoring option for Rondo to pass to, but it also meant that Artest was able to keep Pierce under relative control without having to have Kobe switch over and defend Pierce like in the last game.

by mmmmm on Feb 11, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point about PP

But the key problem for the Cs when Kobe’s sagging off Rondo and roaming the lanes lookin for trouble, is that Rondo can’t make him pay the heavy price. If RR could do that, the entire defensive strategy of the Lakers falls apart, and they’re easy pickins for our guys.

For sure, it would help if the other 4 players are playing better, making their shots, etc…. but the EASIEST, FASTEST way to kill the Lakers (or anybody else) using the sagging strategy is to make that easy jumper.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Good one

I think if Rondo was able to distribute like usual guys like Garnett and Pierce would have shot a lot better than they did, especially at the end. Too bad. They got to fix that

by JR99 on Feb 11, 2011 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

Rondo missed three straight wide open jumpers in a row in the begining of the third period

And that is when the game changed. As long as he continues to miss most of his jump shots, the Lakers will never guard him.

by vinnie on Feb 11, 2011 3:32 PM EST reply actions  

Wrong

As long as we allow the Lakers defensive game plan to take us out of what we do best on offense, we will continue to play bad offense against them.

The Cs reacted to Rondo’s missed jumpers by running the offense through Paul in the 2nd half. And that just plays right into the Lakers hands, makes it easier for Kobe to double off Rondo, and renders Rondo a jump shooter stationed on the perimeter, while also taking the offense out of its comfort zone, making our best scorer into a mediocre playmaker, and making us much easier to defend in the process.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 11, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

What I was getting at more was that the momentum changed when he clanged three straight jumpers

However, running the offense through Pierce was the wrong way to go. Especially given that he clearly was not 100 percent last night. However, how many other elite point guards would be shown the lack of respect that Rondo was shown last night with Kobe standing 10 feet away from him?

by vinnie on Feb 11, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I defintely agree

We reacted poorly to something we knew was going to happen—there’s really no excuse for it.

But, listen, I don’t care what other points guards would have done in a similar situation. We can’t fault Rondo for failing to turn into Derrick Rose for a night, just like we can’t blame Rose when he fails to turn into Rondo for a night. The Lakers are unique in the fact that they have an All-NBA defender they can use to play free safety. It’s not just that Rondo can’t shoot—it’s that the Lakers have 2 7-footers to protect the rim. Even when guys lay off Rondo he can usually penetrate just fine and run the offense—but he runs into trouble when there are guys who have length to protect the rim.

FWIW, the Lakers defend Westbrook the same way.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 11, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

The reasons we started to run the O through Paul

was twofold:

1) Ray was in foul trouble and went to the bench for long stretches of the second half.

2) Ironically because Paul was playing so sluggish in the first half, the Lakers kept Kobe on Rondo and Doc was hoping Pierce could reach down and take advantage of Artest like he did in the last game. IF he had, that might have forced Kobe to switch, freeing up Rondo to play his game again.

But Paul was clearly just not up to it. He looked just gassed.

by mmmmm on Feb 11, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Using Paul to facilitate is a good countermove

But when it becomes the rule on offense and not the exception, then we become easy to defend.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 12, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

totally agree

I’m just explaining WHY Doc deviated.

by mmmmm on Feb 12, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree that it was wrong to take the ball out of Rondo's hands

But the thing that most directly “renders Rondo a jump shooter” is Kobe’s sagging defense. The most direct answer to that strategy is for Rondo to simply make the easy jumper. He can make it 4 out of 5 times in practice (or more). He can make it when the pressure’s off. Now he has to make it when the spotlight is directly on him. Once he does, the Lakers’ defense is defeated… completely, utterly, dead.

There are other ways to defeat that defense… but none as direct and easy as making those wide open jumpers.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

No, the most direct answer to that strategy...

is to keep the ball in Rondo’s hands and running our offense.

By taking the ball from Rondo, we’re basically making Kobe’s life easier, which makes his roaming more effective at the same time we’re asking Paul or Ray or KG to step outside of their normal roles and start creating offense for others. So, while Kobe’s roamer defense is an effective defensive tactic, the Cs reaction to that tactic—taking the ball from Rondo—makes that tactic so much more devastating. Here’s why:

By taking the ball from Rondo we:
1. Make it easier for Kobe to double team and roam on defense
2. We put greater pressure on our finishers to create good shots, or make tougher shots, leading to more turnovers, less ball movement, and more contested jumpers
3. We take our best passer, dribbler, ball handler and decision maker from situations where these talents are best employed, and station him on the perimeter and he’ll either be asked to shoot a jumper, or he’ll be ignored by his teammates after he misses a few jumpers, something which kills ball movement and effectively gets us playing 4-on-5 basketball.

You can harp on Rondo making his jump shots as a way to defeat this defense, but even if he’s making his jumpers most teams would rather make Rondo beat them with a jump shoot ALL DAY LONG than would they rather have Paul, KG, or Ray beat them using a well-run offensive game plan. And teams are even more willing to make Rondo beat them when they realize that the Cs tend to take the ball out of Rondo’s hands when he’s not making his jump shot, meaning not only does making Rondo beat them with his jumper lead to missed jumpers, it sometimes leads to the Cs voluntarily going away from their bread-and-butter offensive game plan so as to engage in lower efficiency basketball.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 12, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't disagree

…about keeping the ball in Rondo’s hands. I do think that no one would dare sag off a PG who can make that shot easily. They’d get killed, every time.

Anyway, these two issues are not mutually exclusive. I believe they’re both real.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

You missed the point, DRJ1

We didn’t lose this game because Rondo missed 6 jumpers. We lost this game because once again the Cs played right into the Lakers’ hands on the offensive end, reacting to the Kobe roamer defense by taking the ball out of Rondo’s hands and rendering him a spot up shooter when that’s exactly what the Lakers wanted in the first place.

I’m fine with Rondo going 0 for 20 if he continues to run the offense, but if he has a bad shooting night AND is taken off the ball that’s a recipe for disaster. And yet that’s exactly what we do every time we lose to the Lakers.

The critical lesson from the Lakers game is that when the Cs voluntarily take the ball out of Rondo’s hands they are going to lose.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 11, 2011 3:34 PM EST reply actions  

Good point.

Keep the ball in his hands, keep the offense moving, and this becomes less of an issue.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with your lesson

It’s true that taking the ball out of Rondo’s hands was a mistake, part of the big picture. On the other hand, if Rondo could just hit those wide open jumpers consistently — which means EVEN IN BIG GAMES — then the whole strategy becomes total garbage for our opponents. And after all, really… he’s supposed to be able to do that. He’s totally WIDE OPEN!

So for RR to overcome his nerves — in big games especially — is the fastest, shortest route to defeating this defensive strategy of our opponents.

But… why did they go away from Rondo? I guess it was because he was just taking too many missed jumpers, and they naturally got sick of coming up empty one possession after another. The kid missed a lot of shots…. 9 total.

by DRJ1 on Feb 11, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

It's coming...

Rondo’s jumper is a work in progress and he’s getting better over time. But while his jumper is an area of concern, taking the ball out of his hands is a much more devastating mistake, and it’s something that continues to happen for no good reason.

I understand why they went away from him, I just think it’s stupid to do so. Even Rondo misses are good shots—would you rather have Rondo miss wide-open jumpers while continuing to run the offense, or would you rather we put the ball in Paul’s hands, have less effective ball movement, more contested jumpers, and a greater percentage of turnovers? I’ll take wide-open Rondo misses all day long.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 11, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. Rondo may have missed some open jumpers, but so what? He's not alone.

Everybody does at some point, including the all time greatest players, and even during big games.

Everybody should just take a deep breath and let some of the bench get healthy, so we can get back to our winning ways.

Lygafe

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix

http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/

http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe

http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2

International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]

Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]

http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions

by lygafe on Feb 11, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Ray

Late in the game, Ray drove through traffic across the middle of the paint, made a move and elevated above everyone and shot from just 3-4 feet out. This is a shot he makes probably 90% of the time over his career.

Missed.

Some nights it just won’t go in the damn hoop.

by mmmmm on Feb 11, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I saw that one too

And thought it was going to be money. I’m convinced that’s why he closed with that slam on the final possession. Ray had so many shots rim out I’m convinced he wanted to punish the rim for its transgressions.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Feb 11, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

And on some nights

Derrick Fisher bumps you in the post, then walks under you as you shoot, throwing you off balance and making you miss a shot you’d make 95% of the time otherwise.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 12, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I want the ball in Rondo's hands

…just about always. He is the very best at what he does, clearly. I ALSO want him to make the easy, wide-open jumper, even when the spotlight is directly on him and the pressure is at max. Just make it.

Really, if you think about it…. it’s kinda nuts that he can’t do that. He’s an NBA PG. He just HAS TO MAKE THAT SHOT. There’s no two ways about it. Well… maybe that’s not completely true….there are 2 ways about it…. Cs can, and have won without it. But man… it’s much, much harder. Because fact is: once Rondo gets that final piece in place, there will be NO stopping him or the Cs’ offense. Literally, there will be no effective defense against the Cs’ O.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

And the road to Rondo's jump shot nirvana

Is much more direct when it involves keeping the ball in his hands. The problem with putting the ball in Paul’s hands is that when it does get passed back to Rondo, it’s not because Paul’s engaging in good ball movement; no it’s usually because Paul got himself in trouble and is looking for a bail out, meaning it’s a tough pass at the end of the shot clock and a pass that puts Rondo in a tough position when it comes to finding the rhythm to put up a good looking J.

The difference between Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Williams, etc…and Rondo is that only Rondo has the ball taken from his hands on occasion. It’s much easier to find your jump shot rhythm when you decide when to take the shot and when people pass it to you in rhythm and on time—fact is, Rondo will be a better shooter if we keep the ball in his hands at all times.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 12, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you have any evidence

  That Rondo hits fewer shots in big games than other games? His scoring average clearly goes up in the playoffs. Also, we scored 53 points in the 1st half with Rondo controlling the ball and 33 in the 2nd without it. Rondo had at least 8 assists in the first half as well. We can still score against the Lakers, we just have to stick with our game plan.

by BballTim on Feb 11, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

We're just giving too much away

Cs were fine in the first quarter (not half, really), but when the Lakers tightened up their D, and Kobe started roaming and causing ever more trouble, the advantage the Cs were giving away by essentially giving the Lakers an extra man on their defensive team (the roaming Kobe) got to be too much. Why do that? Why give them that leg up, when all you have to do to stop it cold is make a few wide-open jumpers?

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

So, then, no evidence?

  And it’s worth pointing out that we still got good looks in the second half, but players other than Rondo missed relatively wide open jumpers.

by BballTim on Feb 12, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting... what constitutes "evidence"?

… There’s no stat for “big” games, of course. We would have to go through each game we consider “big” and compare it to other games. More… we’d have to choose “big” games where the opposing guard sagged off Rondo.

So how do you propose to gather such evidence? We’d need a full tape library and a lot of hours, wouldn’t we?

This is a theory. It is based on the experience of seeing every Celtics game of the season. In ALL those games, I cannot recall a big game when a) the defender sagged off Rondo like Kobe did, and b) Rondo successfully responded by hitting his wide open jumpers. From that comes the theory that this is his (and the team’s) Achilles’ heel.

True, other people missed shots too. And that contributed to the loss, of course. Keep in mind, though, that one reason for a poor FG% is the good defensive play of your opponent, which in this case was supported by their extra man on defense — the roaming Kobe. Made possible by: Rondo’s inabiity to make that tactic impossible for them.

So we keep coming back to their most glaring weakness… at least insofar as this defensive tactic is concerned.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Again though

  If this weakness was as glaring and exploitable as you claim this team wouldn’t be a threat to advance past the 2nd round of the playoffs. Are you saying that teams only use this defense a small percentage of the time in the playoffs and we always struggle against it, or that teams use it regularly in the playoffs and we only occasionally struggle because of it?

by BballTim on Feb 12, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Not every team is equipped to use this tactic

Because (a) most teams don’t have anyone with Kobe’s defensive skills — size, quickness, IQ, etc., and (b) most teams don’t have the big, talented front line, providing that formidable line of defense which makes it even more difficult to drive to the rim.

If a relatively weak defensive team tries this, Rondo will find ways to cut them up. So… only certain teams can do this. Miami doesn’t have the bigs for it, though they clearly have the elite defender (LBJ, and also DWade). Orlando might be able to do it, if they get their act together on defense.

Also, this tactic does NOT always work, even with the best teams. It does work when our guys just don’t have the energy, or the will, to fight extra hard to break it… which is what happened with the Lakers.

What I’m saying is: hey, make life easier for everybody, Rondo, and learn to break this tactic easily… just make those easy damn jumpers, and that will be that. I’m pretty sure this is exactly why Doc had RR take all those jumpers in that game. He’s trying to get Rondo to that place.

If they succeed, even the Lakers, using this tactic, won’t have a chance against us in the Finals.

If they don’t succeed, that doesn’t mean we don’t win the ring this year. Not at all. It does mean that it’ll be harder, and more dangerous.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not even a great recipe for LA with Kobe

  It was only “effective” in 07-08 when Rondo was playing on a sprained ankle, and it was only somewhat successful last year after Ray got kneed in the thigh.

by BballTim on Feb 12, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll add that it was only "effective" in this latest game

because Paul was ill and we had limited fouls to give in the post.

When teams sag off Rondo, what this normally does is simply increase his field of vision for dealing assists and enable the oop pass. But those things are dependent on the players around him being effective.

Paul was not playing great and was quickly in foul trouble. There goes Rondo assist target #1.

Ray was also in deep foul trouble. There goes Rondo assist target #2.

Perkins was in deep foul trouble and we had no 7 footer to back him up – this one affect’s KG. When we have Perk or Shaq (or JO, briefly) in the post that actually opens up more opportunities for KG to fly to the hoop for the alley-oop. We don’t execute the oop play much with BBD in at C.

Teams sag off Rondo all the time. This is a team game and the Celtics are perhaps the most team-oriented offense in the NBA. That also means they are vulnerable when missing a couple of key parts of that machine. Yes, it would be true that they’d be even more unstoppable if Rondo had a stronger shooting game. But even without it, when healthy, they are pretty close to unstoppable.

by mmmmm on Feb 12, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

When healthy, the Cs are very strong, even with the sagging off Rondo.

But if/when they can be/are beaten when healthy (even in one or two games) it’ll likely be as a result of this one weakness. If Rondo can close that gap, they’ll be that much stronger. Also…. this whole regular season exercise is about making incremental improvements, trying to get better all the time. This would be one of the ways.

by DRJ1 on Feb 13, 2011 4:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Everyone knows the Celts would be better if Rondo was a better shooter

  But it’s not the only reason we lose games. It’s not the only reason we lost the finals, it’s probably not even the main reason we lost.

by BballTim on Feb 13, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

maybe not directly

but if Rondo made some of those open shots, i feel like things would have gone our way.
(fyi KG and Davis had their share of missed open shots )

by APC on Feb 11, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo hit somenice jumpers prior game as I recall

I think with Doc’s coaching and DW’s return we can survive this….

BTW way Rondo is shooting 50.4 % from the field this year.

Does he pass up too many easy shots? …Yes!!!

Is he a sharpshooting guard? No ….but I can’t complain about 50.4%…good lord

He leads the league in assists and almost leads it in steals!!

I blame this SPECIFIC loss on varying factors…including a cold shooting hand from Rondo…but I don’t have a laser beam pointed at Rondo as our biggest problem, or even in our top three problems

Sorry…love your posts, your style, etcd…dut just disagree here.

 

Is it Soup Yet?

by Master Po on Feb 11, 2011 3:38 PM EST reply actions  

50.4% isn't the point here Po...

He’s awful on shots <10 and 10-15.

See for yourself:

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rajon%20Rondo

35% on <10, 23.5% on 10-15 ft.

Not very good, to say the least.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, sorry :(

Real life called, bothering me again! Don’t you hate it when stupid things like family and real life get in the way of all this virtuality?

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I've already posted responses above...

…which basically amount to: The Cs are giving away a major advantage — what amounts to any extra man on the Lakers’ defensive team (Kobe the Roamer) — simply because Rondo doesn’t hit those simple, wide-open jumpers. I.e., Rondo could KILL the Lakers’ D easily… all he has to do is make those jumpers at a high rate, which he should be able to do because he is literally WIDE OPEN. 80%, then. Why not? After all, there’s nobody guarding him.

Now, people have argued that Rondo is shooting pretty well from the field. First, much of that good FG% is from layups and bunnies at the rim. Second — truth be told, I’ve NEVER seen Rondo take and consistently MAKE those easy jumpers in a critical game when the defender is sagging off of him. Never! From that I conclude that he just hasn’t conquered his nerves when the spotlight is directly upon him — when the pressure is at maximum, play stops, he’s holding the ball, the arena goes quiet….. and it’s up to him to make that easy, WIDE OPEN jump shot.

Don’t forget too that as his shots clang off the rim, the Cs’ defense takes a hit. Pretty soon, the opponent’s going to take advantage of all those missed shots and start hitting their transition baskets. And then the whole game goes to hell.

The simple, most direct solution is to just make those damn jumpers. Hit 2, 3, 4 in a row, and your opponent’s whole plan disintegrates.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Not true

At hoopdata.com they break down one’s shooting percentage by spots on the court. And while Rondo does shoot a lot and very well at the rim, he’s also no slouch from 15-23 feet either, topping Rose, Westbrook and Parker from that distance. And that’s a shoot he takes on average 3 times/game.

I can remember several Rondo jumpers in crunch time this season. He’ll rarely take more than 2 in a row, however, because he’s so programmed to pass the ball and this team is filled with weapons. So, after even making a couple in a row, Rondo will usually call the number of someone else.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 12, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is why it's frustrating that he doesn't hit them

… in the big games with the defender sagging, everybody covered, ball in his hand, arena turning quiet, spotlight shining directly on him.

I’m suggesting that Doc is actively working on getting him over the hump on this. That’s why RR took so many of those shots early in this game. If he succeeds, it will make life a LOT easier for our guys when this comes up in the playoffs.

And you must admit… this tactic that Kobe used should NEVER work. It’s just a mind game. RR has got to beat it the easy way, the obvious way, the fastest way…. just make those shots, and scare the hell out of Kobe (omg, the kids’s gonna hit it every time down).

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Just curious

  Do you get paid every time you type “wide open” in all caps?

  Seriously, though, if you ever see Rondo take a lot of jumpers in a critical game then that game is in bad shape. It’s the least efficient shot you can take, and he’s the least efficient jump shooter of the big four. It’s the shot that the defense WANTS the Celts to take every time.
 
  Also, Rondo’s range was pretty good from 15 feet and closer last year, and he’s doing pretty good from the outside this year. it’s not just layups.

by BballTim on Feb 12, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

The Cs record in the games where Rondo scores 15+ is not that great, so there’s really no impetus to get him to shoot that much more. The only impetus is for him to shoot the shots the defense gives him in the natural flow of the offense because of how passing up those shots can have a negative effect on the offense as a whole. But on a team with so many great scorers, there’s only so many shots that should go Rondo’s way, and Rondo knows that more than anyone.

That said, Rondo’s FGA is down by 2 a game this season. While I understand this to be a function of having more weapons this season (and thus more reason to pass), I think Rondo could stand to get closer to last season’s FGA/game if only because of how it will help him further develop his jump shot and free throw shooting. At some point the law of diminishing returns applies, as Tim points out above, but I don’t think we’re close to reaching that point.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 12, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Now, if you want to talk about the best way to discourage Kobe from roaming...

It’s not by hitting a bunch of two-point jumpers in a row. It’s by hitting a few well-timed 3s, which are much more emotionally devastating.

Problem is, Doc’s not on board with that idea and has repeatedly said he couldn’t care less if Rondo ever became a 3 point shooter. But the lesson of JKidd is relevant here—he sucked as a shooter in general, but was encouraged to shoot, and encouraged to shoot 3 pointers. Not only did he eventually become a 40% 3 point shooter (and 3rd all-time on the 3 pointer made list), he also a knack of hitting huge 3s in crunch time against defenses that often tended to lay off him and ‘make him shoot.’ If the defense is going to give you something, and dare you to make 2 point field goals all day long, you will give them more reason to abandon that plan if you take that rope and start raining 3s on their head.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 12, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Put it this way

Would Kobe dare sag off, say, a Nash? Or even a Delonte? What would happen if he did? Why, they’d just turn and hit the 10-ft jumper every time. It’s becomes a free throw for them…. maybe even easier, because they’re close and so WIDE OPEN (oops) wide open. lol.

3s are great too, sure… though they’re a lot harder to make at a high %, obviously.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I think if you watch most nba games with this in mind

  You’ll see a lot of people take and miss those wide open jump shots. It’s not like every 20 foot jumper is taken with a defender draped all over them.

by BballTim on Feb 12, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't think so

  Rondo’s generally farther from the basket than the free throw line when Kobe sags off of him. It’s more an issue of Rondo being left alone when he’s about 20 feet from the basket.

by BballTim on Feb 13, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

A foot or so?

  He’s generally between the 3 point line and the ft line, not 3-4 fett inside the foul line wide open.

by BballTim on Feb 14, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

It'd make them that much better.

Is the point.

Without that weapon, it’s fighting an uphill battle. You have to work twice as hard to get good offense, since teams can do what Kobe does against Rondo. Take that way, and things become much easier.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Awful on shots <10 feet?

  He hits 35% of them, the average pg hits about 39%.

by BballTim on Feb 11, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, so he's significantly below average.

“Awful” too strong?

Ok, how about, really not very good? Better for you?

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure I'd call that statistically reliable.

He only takes on average one shot per game in the “<10 ft” range. That’s only 40 shots all year!

Over the prior two years, he took a total of 236 shots in that range and made 108 of them for 46%.

If he had made just 4 more of those shots all this year, he would be at that same 46%. Which would be ‘significantly above’ average.

At any rate, while it would be great for Rondo to be a better spot-up shooter, the team as constituted is simply better off with him working first and foremost as a facilitator while attacking the rim. He is shooting 67% at the rim off a more significant 171 attempts so far this year.

Odd bit: From 3PT land Rondo is shooting a decent 31%. Not great. But not terrible either. Only 29 attempts though. That number will fluctuate wildly up or down before the season is out.

by mmmmm on Feb 11, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

3% lower

  Isn’t significantly below average. He’s taken 40 shots from that range and hit 14. If he’d hit 1 more shot from that range so far this year he’d be average. Is 1 less miss in a half a season really significant?

by BballTim on Feb 11, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree with it being the offense

the problem was defense. we were up 15 and then we stopped getting stops. our offense is the most efficient (50% FG) when we get stops and then push the ball, not necessarily a fast break, but scoring before the defense is set.

not worried about Rondo missing 3 straight jumpers, hell Paul and Ray do that all the time.

they need to get consistent stops so they can run their offense the way they want to.

the game was lost because of foul trouble and our entire bench was in street clothes or the trainers room. Von Wafer played effectively, but foul trouble rendered him useless as well (a couple of really tough calls).

not worried about this lost game, though i love spanking LA…get the troops healthy, we’re built for the playoffs.

- JoeB

by joeb on Feb 11, 2011 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

Rondo has had big games in his career....

Unfortunately, none of them ever come against LA.

by Title 18 on Feb 11, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions  

Rondo was pretty big in the last game against LA

15 assists in a half. Accounting for about 70% of the Cs 2nd half offense.

The main reason Rondo hasn’t had many big games against LA is that his team voluntarily takes him off the ball.

by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 11, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you already forget about the game last week against LA? 10 points, 16 assists, 5 rebounds, and one of the biggest reasons why we won.

by ejk3489 on Feb 11, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Really

Jun 17, 2008 – 21 pts, 7 Rebs, 8 Asst, 6 Steals. Pretty good game to me and that was game 6 NBA Finals – Banner 17!!!!

by badax33 on Feb 11, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

No one ever claimed Rondo is not a good player.

Only that, a consistent mid-range shot, that forced teams (aka Kobe) to play him, on or off the ball, would take his game, and this team to entirely new heights.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

LA-BST have played 21 games since Dec., `07

All you can point to is one game….where Ray & Posey were on fire, hitting 10-of-12 three pointers?

A blowout game that was over by half-time?

by Title 18 on Feb 11, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He's had plenty of good games against LA.

  You must have somehow missed them all, some of them were in the Finals.

by BballTim on Feb 11, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

As Sizz said... no one is saying Rondo is not great

He is, of course. Just that this is an “Achilles Heel” for him, and the team.

What is that, anyway? Well… Achilles was a great warrior. The greatest, as legend goes. He conquered many men, won many battles. (So has Rondo.) But… he had one weakness. Just one, small, deadly weakness. (Just like Rondo.) And that one weakness eventually killed him (ok, that’s the end of the metaphor).

I.e. — RR is a great player. The Cs CAN win with him playing as he is. But they’re giving away a big advantage now. If he fixes his one weakness, the Cs will get that much stronger.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions  

House?

I had a vision once, where we were playing the Heat in the ECF, and Eddie House takes the wide-open three For The Game…. misses it…. then walks over and high-fives Danny Ainge. :))

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Rondo must have been held by both heels when he was dipped . . .

because his has another weakness, which is his foul shooting. IMO, he has improved somewhat on both.

The tale is that Thetis took her son Achilles by the heel, and dipped him in the river Styx to make him invulnerable. The water washed every part, except the heel covered with his mother’s hand. It was on this vulnerable point the hero was slain

BTW, neither of Rondo’s A-H’s bother the Celtic’s chance of winning when they are at full strength.

by GetYourSoxOn on Feb 13, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Offensive struggles

Offense is definitely the issue with this team on most nights when they lose. The defense has bad stretches but rarely for an entire game.

Even before the vast injuries the C’s long stretches of stagnant offense have cost them games. Doc said in training camp that the Celtics spent ‘95% of the time on defense and only 5% on offense’ That was an alarming statement especially considering how the offense collapsed in Game 6 and 7 of the NBA Finals.

At times it is fatigue due to injury, playing on back to back nights, Rondo being out of sorts and players going to isolation plays instead of running the offense. While the Celtics are such a great shooting team it does seem like when the jumpers aren’t falling they tend to lose focus and revert back to standing around and becoming stagnant.

Poor offensive execution especially in the 4th quarter has cost the C’s several games this year. They need to remain aggressive and trust the system because there will continue to be nights where the shots just aren’t falling especially against the elite teams of the league…

by warnerjohn on Feb 11, 2011 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

Um ... in MOST games, our offense does just fine.

The Celtics are amazing at generating high percentage shots. They are first in FG%, eFG% and TS% by a huge margin. When they don’t turn the ball over they are without question the most efficiently run offense in the league. Their one weakness is because they are reliant on lots of passes and also setting picks (which sometimes get called for happy feet) is that they inevitably generate TOs at an above-average rate.

But even with the high TOs, they have been a well-above average team in offensive possession efficiency.

A lot of the problems last night WERE on offense, but not because of the nature of our offense or the skill of our players, but primarily due to simple man-power issues. Its hard to protect & attack the rim consistently when you have a such a shortage of big men (especially when your opponent is fully stocked) and it really hurts when your #1 scoring option (Pierce) is clearly under-the-weather.

by mmmmm on Feb 11, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

And the Captain was not well. You could see it every time he shot it was like the ball weighed an extra 5 pounds.

I mean this was pretty close to LA’s A game and they only won by 6, with Boston sporting only 10 (eventually 9) players in game clothes, and foul trouble early, and sick Pierce, and no Quisy . . . . I gotta say I’m all kinds of optimistic after this loss.

Although i hope this puts to rest all the stupid Melo talk. I mean don’t get me wrong, I hope they do it, then you can pretty much pencil the Spurs into the finals out west, but still.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Feb 11, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

DRJ1, don’t think you can reach these kind of conclusions from their play last night which was more or less dictated by the roster limitations. The fact that they played as well as they did, without being able to do much in the paint and the rebounding problems, is a testament to the pride and fight in them, as well as the solid unselfish style of their play.

Pierce dealing with illness effects, Ray in foul trouble only added to the injury problems. I just hope they don’t push Perk too hard to soon and are careful with Delonte, although these injuries are very tough to deal with.

by SteveZ from Edgemont on Feb 12, 2011 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree they were short-handed

No question about it. But the game still exposed this (previously known) weakness, in a way that brought home the importance of fixing it. And I think Doc’s got that in mind, and that’s why he had Rondo taking all those jumpers in the first half. I think they’re working on it.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know about that

  Rondo’s always the shooter he is and we don’t normally struggle on offense. I can see where you’re coming from, to an extent, but why do we generally score very efficiently and play poorly at times? Our good play isn’t due to Rondo being a great shooter. There have to be other things involved.

by BballTim on Feb 12, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

There are certainly other things involved.

It’s a complicated game and (like everything in life) there are many moving parts, lots of reasons why teams win or lose…. no doubt. This problem is one facet.

And it’s not that Rondo needs to be a ‘great’ shooter. Not at all. He just needs to do something that most other NBA players — heck, most good high school varsity players — can do: just hit a WIDE OPEN, short jumper. What’s more, we know he can do it! ….Because we’ve SEEN him do it at times, and in practice.

So, I believe Doc gets this, and now wants Rondo to get over whatever psychological barrier is stopping him from making that easy shot in big games, under pressure. If they succeed, I don’t see any effective defensive strategy left for our opponents.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

We lose the game because the rebounds.

Danny has to be sure that J.O will help in the playoff. If not he has to get rid of him to get another big. And RR has to start shooting 6-7 jumpshot x game,it dosen’t matter if he hit the jumper or not, so he can be ready in the playoff.

by celt4ever on Feb 11, 2011 4:33 PM EST reply actions  

Can't get rid of him.

Who’s going to trade for him?

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 11, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody.

We have to sacrifice the money with a buyout to open a roster space. But I believe or I want to believe that J.O will be fine to playoffs time.

by celt4ever on Feb 11, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice post

I think it is hard to take this game and generalize it, although I think you made some really good points.
 There were so many things going against the C’s that I was not totally surprised they lost. It was clear in the 1st quarter everyone in the arena was feeding off of the energy surrounding Ray’s record. Just watching it on TV, I could feel the energy every time he shot the ball—probably one of the most amazing moments I’ve had watching a game. Just the emotion after he broke the record seemed a bit of a distraction- kinda compared to a senior day in HS or College ball, the emotion and moment was bigger then the game itself.
The injuries and lack of depth in the post allowed some Bynum guy to show up for the first time that I can remember against the C’s, but also created a struggle for rebounding and defense. PP was also sick, and looked slugglish, the only real post player is still getting in rhythm. I also think LA needed this game more then Boston (although there at that point where there going to start wanting every game in order to stay atop the conference).
Overall, congrats Ray, and get healthy Celtics.

by wisco87 on Feb 11, 2011 9:07 PM EST reply actions  

Agree

It did seem that when Ray broke the record, the event reached it’s emotional peak. And it was downhill after that, emotionally. That, the injuries, LA’s motivation… it all probably played into the loss, too.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Lakers

Officially on fire now. They killed NY on the road. Man, it would have helped to put them away when we could. Everything is going their way, not ours.

by Master_Shake on Feb 11, 2011 10:36 PM EST reply actions  

Nah

We’re fine. If healthy, we will kick their butts in a series.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Right...

“IF healthy”…that sounds quite utopic

by Master_Shake on Feb 12, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Hope not

I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be healthy. That’s pretty much synonymous with going after the championship…. and that’s what we’re all doing.

by DRJ1 on Feb 13, 2011 4:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Is it just me.....

or are the Lakers the least of Boston worries—they’ve got to get through the East first. The post brings up some good points to work on, and issues moving forward. My biggest worry is that the team doesn’t get healthy, then were in trouble, and I am hoping Doc is doing what he does best- nursing the minutes until we need them in the playoffs.

by wisco87 on Feb 12, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely

Of course health is THE most important factor. This post is just about one lesson, from this one game.

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's face facts - aging, sick and tired all star starters run out of steam without support.

Playing against an elite team, like the Lakers [ and let’s face it, they’re still one of the best ] or any younger non- elite team with fresh legs and a bench are going to give the Cs problems until such time as a bench re- appears, and we can field a healthy 2nd unit.

Until such time, we’ll have to continue to fight through the injuries and/ or illnesses as they occur.
 
 See my post below for a rundown of the injuries, let’s keep things in perspective.
.
http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/2/7/1979588/how-am-i-injured-let-me-count-the-ways

Lygafe.

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.

Lygafe

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix

http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/

http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe

http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2

International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]

Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]

http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions

by lygafe on Feb 12, 2011 7:17 AM EST reply actions  

All true.... but

…why would that preclude there being a visible problem in the Lakers game? Of course, everyone would agree that we were short-handed (still are), got tired, were sick (PP), etc. But how is that relevant to the point here? All these things contribute to the loss, yes. But we’re discussing something ELSE that contributed to the loss. One factor does not preclude the other, right?

We should still take whatever lessons we can from each experience. To ignore a whole game like this and NOT learn its lessons because there were ALSO other reasons for the loss…. that just doesn’t compute for me.

And I’m pretty sure Doc’s learning. In fact, I think he CHOSE this game to give Rondo more experience — and perhaps too as a test — shooting those short jumpers under the gun. And they need to keep doing that until he gets it.

Besides…. I think we probably would have won that game if Rondo had been able to hit those shots at a reasonable rate for wide-open middle-distance looks. For many reasons, including: the points we would have scored, the removal of Kobe as a roaming troublemaker on their defense and the consequential probable improvement of our OTHER guys’ FG% (i.e., our offense.improves if their defense loses the extra roamer).

by DRJ1 on Feb 12, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

The Lessons
  1. We suck on offense when Paul Pierce is not feeling well.
  2. We such on post defense when we have no depth at C leading Perk to rack up 5 fouls.
  3. We suck on perimeter defense off the bench when our #12 player is forced to be the first backup for both SG and SF.


  4. It would sure be nice if Rondo could improve his mid-range jump shot.

by mmmmm on Feb 12, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

You will never catch me arguing

…that health is not the #1 priority. Of course. Fixing Rondo’s deficiency is an important incremental improvement because it plugs up a weakness which otherwise could be exploited by our opponents. The Cs will not always be perfectly healthy, and foul-free, and playing their best. There will always be imperfections which lead to vulnerabilities. If we can eliminate this one Achilles’ heel, the team will become that much less vulnerable… which could prove very important in the future, especially on those occasions when we’re playing suboptimally for any number of reasons.

by DRJ1 on Feb 13, 2011 4:56 AM EST up reply actions  

All i learned from this last game from the lakers is that they actually corrected what was wrong with their first time against us.

Kobe passed the ball and got his team to score in the beginning , and then took over in the end. THAT CAN NOT HAPPEN, we need to not let the rest of his team score early , especially since we know he will hit anything when he’s in his mood. And also, we learned that we absolutely can not rely on rondo to win games, kobe/fisher played off him so hard at the end of the game to let him put up brick after brick. We will not be able to beat the lakers if this continues, rondo just seems to lack the confidence against good teams to make those shots. He beats up on the sub.500 teams with jumpers/3s when we are up, but in crunch time it just didn’t work out.

This NEEDS to be corrected before all teams start catching on and doing it. :(

by JerseyKid. on Feb 12, 2011 6:03 PM EST reply actions  

Forget Rondo shooting jumpers with Kobe covering him

Rondo needs to drive on him for 48mins. Make Kobe play D. There is no way Kobe can do for that for 4 quarters of 7 games and dominate on offense……

We have two Rondos….

1> the passive Rondo – who walks the ball to the top of the 3 point line and passes or takes the open 15 to 20 footers when teams sag off

2> the MVP Rondo – who beats his man of the dribble, takes the ball in the paint, creates chaos, and dishes

We’re unbeatable with MVP Rondo…..hopefully that is what we’ll see deep in the playoffs this year.

Run Kobe off the court….

Celtic Chat Handle: Bird

by David Henderson on Feb 12, 2011 8:18 PM EST reply actions  

Kobe's sagging combined with their talented trees on the inside

… made it hard for him to drive in this game. Combined with the other problems our team was experiencing, that proved too much to overcome.

by DRJ1 on Feb 13, 2011 4:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Hard to know what to take from this game....

The C’s were undermanned, so the take away is that they need to be healthier? No news there.

That it would be better if Rondo shot better? Again, no news there, either.

That the Lakers needed this one more than the Celtics did? True. But if the teams meet in June, they’ll both need these kinds of games as badly as the other.

What I got took away from this game was that any series involving these two teams will be a tough, hard-fought series. Of course, that’s not exactly news, either….

by Stanford_Fan on Feb 12, 2011 11:15 PM EST reply actions  

I'll tell ya...

…If the Celtics get and stay healthy, a series with LA might NOT be all that tough. (Especially if Rondo also overcomes his remaining problem.) It might end up being like 2008… only easier. If both teams are healthy and playing their games…. I don’t believe they can beat us.

by DRJ1 on Feb 13, 2011 5:02 AM EST up reply actions  

That's the main point.

You’re making too much ado about nothing with regard to Rondo’s shooting for one game, and one game with half the team missing, sick or in fould trouble, even if it was the Lakers.

 When you can show the same thing happening with Rondo after a series of games, with a healthy squad, then I’ll be willing to consider the points you’ve made.

 One game does not a season make.

Lygafe.

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.

Lygafe

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix

http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/

http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe

http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2

International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]

Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]

http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions

by lygafe on Feb 13, 2011 6:41 AM EST up reply actions  

You can argue that Rondo didn't shoot any better in 2008

when the C’s won it all.

I think health is the main concern, because having all your players available allows Rondo (and everyone else) to each play the game that they’re best suited for.

Rondo only needs to shoot if his regular options aren’t available due to injuries, fouls, or whatever.

Of course, if he COULD shoot better, that would be gravy….

by Stanford_Fan on Feb 13, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Here is the point you (and a few others) are missing

Sure, if the Cs are at full strength and playing well, they can beat the Lakers. And I think pretty handily. After all, in this era we HAVE won a championship with Rondo’s deficiency intact.

BUT WE LOST TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS!

I think that one short sentence pretty well says it all. If you want to assume that the team will always be at full strength and playing their game, then sure, go ahead and ignore these kinds of issues. But that is simply not the case. We are NOT likely to be at full strength at some point in our quest. Last year, that disastrous critical point was reached in Game 6 of the Finals, and it killed us in Game 7. It could happen anytime.

It is when the team is not playing up to its par — for any of many reasons — that these kinds of incremental improvements become CRITICAL. And yeah, I mean “critical.” If Ray’s off his game and missing his shots, and our bigs are wounded and we can’t get the rebounds, if Paul’s wasted and unable to bring it home — those are the times when we need Rondo to stand there and make the easy wide-open shot when Kobe sags (as Kobe always does).

If we say “Oh, we’re more than good enough to beat those guys” and ignore ways of getting better now…. wow, I’d call that a recipe for disaster. A disaster that has ALREADY STRUCK US — twice in the past 3 years.

by DRJ1 on Feb 13, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Twice in three years?

  So, what, if Rondo was a little better at hitting his jump shots we’d have been able to win the title without KG? Seriously? I mean, sure, you have an obvious point that it would be great if Rondo hit his jumpers better, but he’s not likely to hit them at a rate that will make stopping it a top priority for opposing defenses.

by BballTim on Feb 14, 2011 9:56 AM EST reply actions  

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