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Assessing the Celtic Trade

Let me start by saying that Danny Ainge has big ones. Ideas, that is. He crafted a perennial championship contender from a rebuilding squad, and did it largely through draft picks. His trading record is more spotty, but don't forget. It was his trades that got them title 17.

Now he does what some consider a gutty move (others call it something else) by breaking up the starting 5 for the past three years and trades one of the most popular Celtics on the team.

Breaking it Down

Star-divide

Emotionally
This is a team that is fueled by its emotion...big time. Garnett leads that charge and is arguably the most emotional player in the league. Kendrick Perkins played with his own brand of fire, at times out of control, but mostly gave just what the Celtics and Garnett needed to play that fearsome defense in tandem. They were one bad ass duo defensively.

Garnett is still the backbone of this team. How quickly and how well he recovers from the trades will be of great importance to the future success of the team. They have been saying how much of a family they have become. I have no way of knowing if they are that much more connected than any other successful team. But let's assume that is true.

In that case, the chemistry of this team going forward is critical. So that is a main issue to watch.

But this is also arguably the toughest minded team in the league. From Garnett to Paul Pierce to Ray Allen to Rajon Rondo, there isn't a tougher minded group in the league. You can add Glen Davis' ability to adjust to whatever happens and find a way to fit in. This is a resilient team that knows how to deal with difficult challenges, whatever they may be.

They were said to be livid over the trade. Will they get over it and move on? Or will this shake their confidence in a way that opponents never could? If so, Danny will take the heat for that.

I am expecting they will regroup around the changed team and will move forward integrating the new players into some new schemes offensively and defensively.

Financial Motivations
Kevin McHale said Danny told him they weren't confident (paraphrase) they could re-sign Perkins
in free agency.

So, let's put this in perspective. Kendrick is crying leaving. The Celtic players were very emotional and Paul Pierce called it a ‘cold' management decision. Never forget the business aspect of this sport. True enough.

But Kendrick did not want to sign an extension and wanted to test free agency. No doubt, he would have many takers. Miami was said to have him targeted. Though a lock out looms, Brendan Haywood money ($8-10 mil. yr) would be possible. If Perkins left for a deal that the Celtics couldn't feel justified in matching, that would have been different?

In the end, both sides have to look out for themselves. Instead of possibly losing Perkins for nothing, Danny got a young, improving, starter level, versatile 3-4 type player and a center who can knock down a jump shot for Perkins and Nate Robinson, who did his very best, but wasn't fitting in as well as some hoped.

Offense
Doc Rivers and Kevin Garnett have said time and time again, that this team lives and dies by its defense. And it does. Maybe to a fault.

Danny mentioned ongoing offensive droughts as a reason for this trade. I noted something similar at the beginning of the season and probably didn't get a whole lot of agreement that it needed looking into. The defense will take care of the offense was the thought.

Unless they add another defending center (bought out?), they will change the emphasis slightly to more offensive options. With Rondo and Perkins on the floor at the same time, the opponents' defense can pack it in. They always have.

Floor Balance
Jeff Green isn't having a good year from the three point line, but he is better than Marquis was and at least hits at a 33.8% career rate. Not quite Posey-like, (Posey is 35% career, but 38% from three as a Celtic) but....that is an improvement.

Nenad Krstic is a solid career mid range jump shooter and will help open up the defense, so Rondo, Shaq, KG and Pierce will find less of a crowd in the middle.

Defense and Rebounding and Who Might Be Added
Both categories take a hit. There is no getting around that. That is why the remaining open roster spots are important.

If Leon Powe returns, that helps in the middle with both rebounding and defense. He also adds toughness. I don't know how well he moves post injury. He couldn't get time on the league's worst team. Not a good sign. But I'm sure if the Cs sign him they will have checked that out.

Not being mentioned, is Samuel Dalembert. There was some talk of him possibly being bought out earlier in the season. I'm sure his agent and Sam would love that. He would be the perfect replacement for Perkins. Long tall shot blocking defender and rebounder.

Maybe it wasn't, but the Celtics deal with Sacramento for Marquis Daniels seemed a bit curious. Could it portend anything further? I have neither read nor heard anything, but Dalembert would be a great addition now.

Troy Murphy is the most mentioned name to possibly become a Celtic. Again, a poor defender, but adds rebounding and a floor spreading outside shot that helps distract the defense or makes them pay if they don't.

There are 2 spots open. If they don't keep D-leaguer Chris Johnson that will be 3 spots. Stay tuned.

Assessing the moves
There is no understating what Kendrick Perkins meant to this team. He was a rock. At this point, they lose something defensively. And that is big. He was also a gentleman in the locker room and it was great to talk with him and watch him grow as player. He was always respectful with the media and thoughtful in his responses. You can not help but like Kendrick Perkins.

But don't shed a tear for the Perk-o-later. He is going to another top contending team and may help put the Thunder over the top. He is exactly what they need. He gets to play with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook.

Next season, he may get the chance to play with (gulp) Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, and Chris Bosh. I guess there is even a slight chance he could return to the Celtics. Nothing has been said that he has discussed re-signing with OKC. But maybe that is happening as well. Whatever happens, Perkins will be well paid and on a top NBA team. His future is bright and he deserves it. So it must be for ourselves that we Celtic fans cry.

I take no disrespect that there are opposing points of view to my own. Certainly time will tell whether this was the right set of moves.

Danny says this a move to make them a better basketball team this season, not next. It certainly makes them better offensively. Check that. It gives them more offensive ‘potential' with Green and Krstic. But somebody has to set screens and rebound.

Nate Robinson
Nate Robinson didn't become what I had hoped he would - an offensive explosion off the bench. That is what he is, at his best. The Robinson experiment really didn't upgrade the Celtics over Eddie House as one hoped. The bench tandem of Marquis Daniels, Delonte West and Nate Robinson never got its chance.

I give Doc credit. After initially keeping a tight chain on Robinson, he gave him a lot of offensive freedom - which is what a player like Robinson needs. Nate improved as a playmaker, but not enough. Nate improved defensively, but not enough. In the end, Nate Robinson jacked up shots way too early in the shot clock and his main fault was that not enough went in to make him the factor we all hoped he would become.

I wish Nate well with OKC. Come playoff time, may he be the thorn in the Lakers and Spurs side for the Thunder that he never quite was for the Celtics.

The New Celtic Middle
Right now it is all on Shaq...and Krstic. That is a risky proposition. Did Danny roll the dice? Or is he counting on another big being bought out or waived? I'm hoping it is the latter.

I have come to really like the new Shaq that the Celtics signed. Quite a humbling move to come here and try to fit in as he has. He has been great for the locker room and overall for the team. I can't help but root for him. But strictly basketball-wise, I question whether ‘Shaq the player' can contend with Tim Duncan and/or Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum over a 7 game series.

I am hoping he has been cruising a bit and will step it up come playoff time. As Danny has said, the starting 5 play really well with Shaq...when he is healthy. That isn't too often. Jermaine O'Neal is the x-factor right now. We know what Nenad Krstic can give you.

So it puts more pressure on Kevin Garnett defensively. Luckily he is the one player who will be up to it. Garnett is extremely active defensively. He is still a force. But the move gives the team more offense. Krstic is a solid if unspectacular offensive player. Far more important, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett get a solid replacement when Jeff Green comes in for them.

Jeff Green
Finally the Celtics have the big 3 they have been seeking ever since Posey decided to take New Orleans' offer. Green can also play the 4 in a smaller line up and give the Celtics more range and length even then.

He is also a transition player in the sense of transitioning from the old guard to a newer unit to run with Rondo in a few years. Jeff Green is just 24 years old. Rondo just turned 25 on Feb 22.

In truth, Danny gave a hint of his thinking throughout the season. He always equivocated by saying that he has to try to win now and look to the future. He feels he has done both.
Adding one more piece, depending on who that is, might make this more palpable to Celtic Nation.

As is, if the Celtics get over powered by the Lakers in another NBA Finals, Danny will take the heat for it.

But it sounds like the Celtics were not expecting Perkins to be a Celtic next season and they needed offense now. Those two things made this deal make sense.

In the end, Shaq did get Perkins starting job as he goes for one more shot at a title before heading into the sunset. He won't get as much rest as he had hoped. But Paul Pierce will get more rest. The Celtics will have a player in Jeff Green who will help either unit he plays for score more. Green will get a crash course in Celtic defense along the way.

I assume they will try and re-sign Green in the future. He makes $4.45 mil now and they can extend a qualifying offer for next season of $5.9 mil.

In the beginning of the year I thought the Celtics needed to pay attention to offense this season. Now they have. And they are looking to the future. The question is if they traded a title shot to do both.

That will be decided in May and June. But I understand the logic and motivation. I also agree that the offense needed something new now.

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Comments

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Is there a GM stupid enough to give Perkins 4 years, $36 million? I say yes.

by bigboyinboston on Feb 25, 2011 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

portland and houston are my bets for perkins if he leaves OKC

as they have money to waste.

if perkins takes the MLE from miami id be shocked. i think he can get $7m or more

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you

But I sure wouldn’t ……he’s a stiff ….. compared to Noah ….

by juanpan on Feb 25, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

nice read Tom

just a nit but i consider there to be 3 spots open, thinking the CJ 10-day contract is just that

- JoeB

by joeb on Feb 25, 2011 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

CJ is too young and too raw right now

if they like the kid enough, they should keep him in Maine to develop

by Banner 18 on Feb 25, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes but ...

I agree with most of your analysis but what about the 1st Rd pick. Yes you can’t play one in the playoffs but it’s another asset Danny has at his disposal and may be available this year. I berlieve that was another important consideration in this deal. I’d rather get my lottery picks from lottery teams than being a lottery team. This certainly helps us to reload rather than retool.

Also, as some people have discussed why the Celts traded Luke and Semil and Quisy we now have extra 2nd rd picks. Danny has been pretty good with them too. So more assets to reload with.

I reallyh think if you objectively look at this deal it puts us in a similar position to win now, maybe a little worse iof we don’t sign any buyout, but in better position to win in the future.

by badax33 on Feb 25, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't agree you can factor a first round pick in too much.

If it hurts this team this year, then no a pick doesn’t balance anything out.

It’s true the team’s window is now, so if Danny’s though was “well it makes our team worse now, but we get a pick for the future” then that is wrong.

However, that’s not what I believe, nor is it what he was thinking, of that I am sure. The thought is, this trade, does not make the Celtics any less likely to win this year (and assuming Shaq and JO can get healthy, may improve those chances) and also serves to set the team up for the future.

He may be right, he may be wrong. But if he’s right, he just completed a deal with significantly improves the future of the team, and still puts them in a position to win this year and next. And that is a chance, he just had to take.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 26, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

True...

thanks for clarification. So maybe they can sign all three bigs mentioned. J/K

Dalembert is just wishful thinking at this point. Murphy and Powe could be both be had.

by Tom Halzack on Feb 25, 2011 3:14 PM EST reply actions  

Banner 18 coming SOON

Very nice move by Danny Boy ……..Dalembert and Murphy too sounds great …… Green and Krstic are a big plus . The Clodhopper Perkins not worth the money get real 6 pts. 6 rb. and 1 blk.

by juanpan on Feb 25, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

banner 18 is here already he posted above :)

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

There’s one glaring stat from last year’s Game 7 that no one has ever really discussed. We all blamed the loss of Perk’s injury. And yes, that might have changed the outcome. But the final score was 83-79 npt 103-99. So our defense was pretty stellar.

But our offense was not. The normal strategy is the sag off Perk and Rondo and try to press the Big 3. In that game PP and Ray were 8 for 29. If they shot a combined 40 percent we win the game by 2, 50 percent and it’s a double digit win. Due to the lack of a reliable backup wing both Ray and PP had to play more minutes and maybe they were just worn out. Now we have a solid SF in Jeff Green one that is young, athletic and can score. We know he can play 25-30 solid minutes a night meaning PP and Ray can limit their minutes to around 30 making them fresher for later in the season and especially in the playoffs. Also, if one gets in foul trouble it provides us a valuable wing player to pick up that slack as well.

Just another slant on this trade.

by badax33 on Feb 25, 2011 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

good post!

finally, a writer who considers all aspects of the trade…well done!

by cfan2 on Feb 25, 2011 3:22 PM EST reply actions  

really nice write up... but what are your thoughts on the Erden/Harangody move?

That is the really really puzzling one. Given that you trade away your bedrock center, why give away his pretty decent rookie backup for free?

I just don’t get the Erden move. They held on to him for 2 years, then he came over and actually impressed on both ends. He costs nothing for what he gives, and the worst case scenario is that you don’t play him. If the C’s were really that desperate for roster space they could have done another move with Harangody like they did for Marquis – or just bought him out. The only thing that possibly makes sense is the Semih going to Cleveland has a connection with Powe getting released… but then why not just make a trade??

I am so confused by the Erden aspect of the deals. Please explain it to me someone!!
I am actually pretty high on the idea of Jeff Green running the break with Rondo, and assuming Shaq is healthy in the playoffs (a big if, I admit, but I think I read somewhere Shaq has never missed a postseason game due to injury! … could be a lie) not such a huge loss as some of us may feel now.

by milt palacio's shot on Feb 25, 2011 3:27 PM EST reply actions  

maybe Danny have someone better in mind for his spot.
will that surprise you?

by APC on Feb 25, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The Erden giveaway is the only move in Thursday’s deals I don’t immediately like. Harangody is a 12th man. He will probably never be anyting more than that. But there were flashes of offensive efficiency from Semih Erden, and although he struggled defensively, he was good down low with the ball and could hit free throws. I guess he’s like a poor man’s version of Nenad right now, but I think he can develop into something pretty good down the line. But hey, if we sign a few guys like Troy Murphy and Rip Hamilton, I’ll completely forget about Erden. And we kept Avery Bradley in all of this.

by bigboyinboston on Feb 25, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

ditto

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

it is understandable...

a a roster clearing move.

 But you’re right, they got little in return. Could be something else coming that makes it make more sense

by Tom Halzack on Feb 25, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

hope not

always like powe but we dont need anymore injury plageued guys or undersized bigs. we need size and health.

he’s played 34 games in the last 2 season and as far as i know is out with a right knee injury.

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice article. Another shoe to drop with Cleveland?

Cleveland may buy out one of there players who will then sign with the Cs. It could be the Powe buyout was an unspoken part of the trade, or hopefully an even better player.

I believe Cleveland would love to see the Cs beat the Heat!

by VtCeltics on Feb 25, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Erden became damaged goods.

 Although he showed he has some promise as a future back up center, he was no longer needed now. Remember, he’s already injured and playing with a shoulder injury that needs surgery, along with assorted other injuries that he acquired this year.. His place has been taken with Krstic coming, who has a better upside than Erden, and at age 27, has a number of good years left.

 The now empty roster spots will be filled with buyouts- who and what remains to be seen. Ainge isn’t through dealing yet.

Lygafe

Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix | International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ] | Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]

by lygafe on Feb 25, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

People keep saying Krstic is better than Erden - but he's not, at least in one vital area.

From what I’ve seen and read, Krstic doesn’t like to bang down in the paint. Now Semih may have been too light-weight and weak (and for his sake, hopefully some team will improve him signifcantly by getting him into the weight room). But clearly, Semih had some toughness and is tempermentally suited for banging around in the paint. The kid could take some real hits and keep on ticking.

So I’m hardly convinced Ainge did the right thing in jettisoning Semih for apparently nothing (as far as we know at this point).

by no kidding on Feb 25, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Far better offensively.

It’s really not even close.

And far all the talk about Erden’s “toughness” he hasn’t exactly been Kevin Love and hobbling up boards like his life depend on it in the minutes he was out there.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 25, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, at this point, Krstic will score more for you. But that's not what the Celtics are looking for.

True, Erden hasn’t been much of a rebounder. In fact, none of the Celtics big men have been rebounding fiends, unless you analyze them in very specific ways. But then, Krstic isn’t a big volume rebounder either.

But Erden has been reasonably good about pounding away to box his man out of the paint. I’m concerned Krstic won’t be so tough.

Mind you, I’m not arguing Erden would necessarily be of more help to the Celtics than Krstic this year. About that, I’m unsure. But Erden’s more of a banger, and for that reason may prove to be a far more valuable commodity than Krstic down the road. And if he’s merely nearly as good as Krstic, well, that would still make him a valuable trade chip. So I hate to see him traded away for essentially nothing.

by no kidding on Feb 25, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

By the way, Erden is actually rather close to Krstic's offensive stats. (Not that it's very important in the Celtics' scheme of things.)

Krstic, career-wise (and he’s down this year), is averaging .212 rebounds and .299 points per minute played. Erden is averaging .202 rebounds and .284 points per minute. So that’s close enough to put them in the same conversation.

by no kidding on Feb 25, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah - I don't think the problem is with Erden's ability

its obviously turned into a durability issue.

Erden could very easily turn out to be at least as good as Krstic down the road.

But until his shoulder is fixed, he’s very limited this year. And while I would have loved to see him get it fixed and watch him develop as Celtic, clearly Danny values that roster spot for something else this year.

Danny has said he intends to fill the three spots with another big, a wing and a guard. I doubt highly that Chris Johnson is the big, so he’s going back to the D-League shortly. The big will be someone like Murphy or D’bert. I’m wondering if either the wing or guard will be buyouts from Cleveland? Parker or Davis? That could be the result of a ‘wink’ agreement and explain why we gave up Erden for so little.

Though the draft pick (2013 Minnesota 2nd rounder) should be a decent pick. Probably in the first 10 of the 2nd round.

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

doubt its davis

he has $29m left on his contract but i was thinking the same thing with parker.

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

can can remember him banging low in the paint a few times in NJ

maybe he doesnt like it, maybe its not what OKC wanted him to do, we will see, players change as we’ve seen.

ray, nate, etc were never thought of as defensive guys,etc….anything can happen.

krstic is furthur along than erden though, but i think the big improvements will be he’s battle and playoff tested, has a jumper and can hit FT’s (80%)

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Krstic

would never be called a banger. But he’s a decent enough post defender. It’s on p&rs that he’s going to be taken advantage of.

by Ersatz on Feb 25, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

They said that about Shaq soon as he came in too.

And Boston still had the #1 rated defense in the NBA for most of the season, while Shaq was starting.

Move along, there’s nothing to see here.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 25, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

KG -

So long as KG roams the high paint, all Centers suddenly start to look much better on defense ….

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

like to add to that

as long as KG is healthy and close to his form back in ‘08’

by Banner 18 on Feb 25, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point

If perk loves it so much here in Boston, he should have taken the offer from Danny.
But business is first for the players as well as management. If you want to play for your favorite team take a financial hit, what would 10 million gives you that 8 million doesn’t?

by APC on Feb 25, 2011 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

+1

People seem to forget he’s the one that turned down the offer and snubbed his nose at them.

I also think teams were starting to figure out how to play C’s. So a change is necessary and now teams will have no idea how to play them once Jeff Green gets going. And they have a center who can hit an open shot.

What I don’t understand at all is the Luke/Semih trade. Just for a 2nd round draft pick. That doesn’t seem right at all

by vgarcia890 on Feb 25, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Still tyring to understand why Perk should have taken a low-ball offfer from the Celts

Yes, it was all they could offer at the time due to the collective bargaining agreement, but he took a low offer the last time around. Why fault the guy for thinking that the Celts might pay him a little more for what he has and would have done moving forward for the franchise?

by vinnie on Feb 25, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

but we dont know the full aspect of it

perkins couldve told ainge, i want $_ per year for 4 years or as danny said he wanted to test FA. it was a risk but he got a good deal and he feels he improved the team.

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

As a hedge against not coming back completely from ACL surgery and reinjuring himself....

I think, strategically, Perk made the right move….However, his current injury and consequent durability concerns may hurt him bigtime for next year.

For his sake, I hope not. He deserves better….but so did Leon…

by csfansince60s on Feb 25, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree

I don’t Perk snubbed his nose at anyone. I believe he felt he deserved more than 7M per year. and he’s earned the right to check out FA. Also, the offer the Celts offered was the highest they could offer based on the CBA. At the end of the season they could go higher. I get the feeling that Perk wanted 8-10M and when you see some of the stiffs (big men) making that and more he has a point. Course, just because someone ovverpays, doesn’t mean we need to overpay, And we all know that Danny wants cap space in 2012 and if we gave Perk 10M there goes the cap space.

I hope Perk gets taken care of by OKC, like I said he earned a big payday. I personnally think that his pay should be 7-8M, not 9-11M.

by badax33 on Feb 25, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Chemistry

This is another aspect. Truthfully, I am not a fan of this deal, mainly bc I value defense and rebounding over offense and I think the Celtics have very little chance of rebuilding on the fly with the Big 3. Its just so unrealistic to believe after the Big 3 retire, the Celts can contend.

I hear the money argument and thats seems like the only valid reason to make the move.

But to blow up a 41-14 team and leaving the chance of a chemistry issue, just to save coin for teams that will not be championship contending or the small possibility of signing D. Howard in the future seems a little foolish.

Perk will be missed, the Celts will miss his defense and rebounding. To downplay Perks contributions is as foolish as saying Jeff Green cannot help the Celts. How will Jeff Green and Krstic fit, Ill reserve judgment until I see both .

Danny Ainge is not Theo Epstein. Lets all realize this fact.

IMO whatever that is worth…

by SoxAcumen on Feb 25, 2011 3:34 PM EST reply actions  

They didn’t “blow up” a 41-14 team. Perkins had played in 12 games this season. Nate was awful, Marquis is hurt, and Semih/Luke are end-of-the-bench guys at this point.

by bigboyinboston on Feb 25, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

The reason I say they blew it up is this

They will have 5 new players on the roster. At least three of them will be key elements if this team is to make it to the finals. So, having to integrate 5 new guys into a totally foreign system with only 25 games left in the season is equal to blowing the thing up to me.

by vinnie on Feb 25, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Theo

Seems to me Theo has made a few moves just like this one so the Red Sox can contend long term.

by Dwnflfan on Feb 25, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

theo LOL

anybody can look good with a blank check in their wallet.
theo has made a lot of mistakes along with his successes.

by Snowball on Feb 25, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree 1,000 percent with this

MLB is a joke. The Red Sox and Yankees can sign anyone they want anytime they want. The Red Sox and Yankees are two of the few teams that can throw outrageous money at their draft picks and sign them all. Theo is okay, but a blank checkbook doesn’t hurt. I admire Danny because of what he has done under strict salary cap regulations. I don’t agree with this trade and I think it will backfire, but I admire him for having the balls to make such a deal because he thinks it is the right thing to do

by vinnie on Feb 25, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

All this “we won a championship WITH perk and lost one WITHOUT perk” is disingenuous. In 2008, Perk got hurt in game 4 of the finals, missed game 5 and played 13 minutes in game 6 with little impact. In 2010, Perk got hurt in game 6 and missed game 7. He played the same amount of games in both years.

The argument looks good but there is little truth in it. Both Powe and Posey meant more to that 2008 finals victory than Perk did.

by BabyBull1289 on Feb 25, 2011 3:50 PM EST reply actions  

if we had of run our offense instead of going pierce iso

we might have won game 7.

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Or if Ray could have thrown a rock in the ocean.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 25, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

that too. bad time to go ice cold.

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

agh - game 3 - bad memories

not just Ray – EVERY celtic kept missing easy layups, point blank shorties and even dunks. If we had just made a tiny handful of those …

We should have won that one and then we’d have been done in g5 and Perk would never have gotten injured in g6.

sigh …

[aside – Ray’s cold shooting started with a knee in the thigh by Artest in game 6. I’m just sayin’ …]

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Not only Powe

I remember Eddie House and James Posey playing huge roles.

by Master_Shake on Feb 25, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

and since letting go of House and Posey

their replacements didnt even come close to what they brought to the table. Probably another reason why they brought in Jeff Green, a 6 9 body who can space out the floor and can play sf or pf.

by leonitus on Feb 26, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Perk will get paid...

Cuban gave Brandon Haywood 52 mil. Noah got 60! Perk will probably get 35-50 mil depending on what happens with the CBA this summer. I don’t blame him for turning down a 22 mil offer. His next big contract could be his last.
For an Okc perspective, check out this piece on Green. http://m.newsok.com/green-became-the-odd-man-out-in-okc/article/3543845

by LuckyNumber07 on Feb 25, 2011 3:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

What about the other offer?

Was it true that Perk really would have signed a 30mill / 4 year deal? I think that was said in another article on the front page. That seems quite reasonable. While I am not as unhappy as others seem to be, Perk for 7.5 mill is fair for everybody. Hopefully Green will make this all worthwhile. I am looking forward to what he has to offer.

by jambr380 on Feb 25, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

what offer is that?

Danny could not offer 30/4 at this time. He offered the CBA-restriced maximum extension that he was allowed to at this time (22/4).

Any larger offer would have to wait until the summer when Perk would become a restricted free agent.

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

whoops didn't mean to type 'restricted' in that, in ref to Perk.

He’s a bird-rights FA.

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

as far as our future, dont know what the salary cap will be next season

if there is a hard cap, if there’s an MLE, if the cap goes up or down but we saved $6m next year by doing this deal as we stand now.

green is a restricted FA and usually teams dont waste time with them as the controlling team usually matches. lets hope he stays, infact, i hope danny locks him up before then.

depending on what davis wants, we may be able to re-sign him now too.

we have our 1st rounder this year year and two 1st rounders next year and two second rounders this year (clevelands should be top 7 pick) and ainge has a decent draft record.

i know we hate rebuilds but if KG does retire after his contract like he’s hinted we need something. we will have a solid core of rondo, bradley, green, davis, pierce, a couple 3-4 draft picks from this year and next, possibly magnum rolle. possibly the buyout guys we add. hopefully ray comes back for 2 more years cheap. depending on what davis and green get we could have enough money to add another star in 2012 FA too.

THE NOW:

we are looking right now like our defense will suffer. i say though, what i said before perkins came back, we are better off with shaq starting becasue of his offense. not that i didnt like perkins. the offense just flowed better when shaq started.

JO, if healthy a month before the playoffs like danny said and stays healthy is a big bonus for his DEFENSE.

krstic will help space teh floor and will add to our bench. a 7 footer with some post moves and a reliable jumper out to about 15 feet. also an 80% FT shooter, nice upgrade there.

green is going to be a monster off the bench, IMO. he played well against teh starters gotta think he will have a field day with backups. a career 5.8 rebounds a game guy who’s atheltic and fast. good finisher. should see him post up more in boston, IMO

wafer could move to SG if we dont add one from buyouts. this should help wafers game as he will be facing smaller players.

overall the bench offense should be much improved and hopefully wont continue to blow leads while the starters rest.

chris johnson, is a player i follow in the D and he’s a nice player but wont get minutes here. he may stay but wont play. just insurance.

cant comment on buyouts yet because we dont know but can speculate:

 anthony parker buyout as part of the erden trade would be nice if he’s coming here.

dalembert would be nice but i cant see the kings buying him out. he’s playing well for them and has an expiring contract already. unless they think saving $2-5m is vital i think he stays. his shot blocking anf rebounding would be nice though

another is rip hamilton, according to hoopshype he didnt want to play for cleveland. pistons dont want him or his contract. doubtful but maybe he takes a buyout and likes us more than chicago..doubtful

murphy, i think is the best bet to land here. he has alot of interest in playing here according to reports and ainge specifically said he wanted a big who could shoot, spread the floor….maybe

kapono was another name mentioned somewhere, cant remember if it was on this blog or not. again,not a good defender (not at all) but is 6’8 and is a deadly marksman. ainge seems to be looking for offense.

overall, im still 50-50 on the trade. still need to see what other players we add and see how the team gels. im going to give it 2-3 weeks before i fully make up my mind. i will say though that i expect our offense to flow alot better. hard to believe i just said that about a .500 FG, team

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 4:19 PM EST reply actions  

Theres one lesson to be learned

Don’t mess wit Danny Ainge and contract extensions!!

by OsirusCeltics on Feb 25, 2011 4:34 PM EST reply actions  

just a side note

we have given up the least amount of points in the league up to now.

teams shoot 43% against us, good for 3rd best

teams shoot 33% from 3 against us, good for 4th best

as much as i love perkins defense, we did this with only having him for 12 games. we will still be a good defensive team

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

I will miss Perkins, but I am now over this whole thing....

Bring on the Clippers and let’s get these new guys into the rotation. As long as they want to win a championship and are willing to bust their asses in the process, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE FINE! By the way, just put yourselves into the new guys’ shoes; don’t you all think they are jazzed about coming to the Celtics? If Nate Robinson, Shaq, and Semih all bought into the philosophy, what makes some of you think the news guys won’t do the same? I’m ready to see this new group in action and can’t wait to see what other pieces will be added soon.

by longlivethe80's on Feb 25, 2011 4:49 PM EST reply actions  

Well I am not over losing Perk and not sure if I will be for awhile...

but I agree with you its time to move on, get the new guys into the rotation, add players to fill the final 3 roster spots and then hopefully see the C’s finish the goal of winning banner 18 !

by fordescort on Feb 25, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i'l start feeling better about it

when we start stringing some wins together.
And when we somehow pick up some more players.

by spinz on Feb 25, 2011 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

Love that picture of Danny accompanying the article

That looks like about 40-pounds ago Danny. He has packed on the Lbs.

by vinnie on Feb 25, 2011 4:57 PM EST reply actions  

We didn't need fixing, just tweaking

We would have won a championship with the team we had and the chemistry. Injuries notwithstanding. This is the kind of thing you do when you are not competing. Just find someone for Daniels and we were all set

If it aint broke – don’t fix it.

by Staubach on Feb 25, 2011 4:58 PM EST reply actions  

lmao

Perkins was a role player. People need to wake up and grasp that he was a bit piece.

I would be more concerned about my so called big 3 quitting in last nights game like someone stole their candy (acting like 2 year olds) then I would be with Perkins.

Perkins amde no difference in 09 when we lost to the Magic.

The only key to winning is Kevin Garnett. PERIOD.

by OVERRATED34 on Feb 25, 2011 5:14 PM EST reply actions  

Perk Was Not A Role Player On This Team

He was the best team defensive Center in the league. How many times have you seen the opposing point guard get past Rondo, only to come face to face with Perk and turn away. Have you ever really watched Perk and KG together. KG will send his man to a certain place. If he gets by him Perk will be there in front and KG will have come back and get behind. Usual result was a blocked or altered shot and no basket. KG on his own is a great defender. Perk made his job easier. Perk saved some of KG’s energy so KG could do other things.

Don’t judge Perk by stats or his offensive problems. Wilt had better stats than Russ, but Russ had all the rings. Perk must be judged by his importance to the team on and off the court. As many have said, they are a family and Perk was very much loved by everyone, except the opponent. I wish him well.

With that said, after getting over the emotional issues, I think Danny did the right thing. I think he targeted Green as that much-needed backup for Pierce and then set out to get him. I don’t think he wanted Perk involved in the deal, but had no choice because he felt that in the end, this would be better for the team now and in the future. On paper this can all work out, but there are many if’s involved. Danny had to make a move to get help at the 3. The cost was high.

As to the other part of the deals, I feel for Semih. I don’t think he will become a big time NBA player, but on a personal level he was on a great team that was very supportive. I don’t think he’ll get that anywhere else.

"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn

by TrueGreen on Feb 25, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Trades

Great article and I see a lot of good things to follow. Danny is a smart guy and he knows what is good for the C’s. Wait till the buyouts and then the pickups. We will be much better than we were on Feb 23.

by TSV on Feb 25, 2011 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

one question

why is nobody talking about the need for a back-up point guard? who is the guy behind rondo now?

by 19th banner on Feb 25, 2011 5:19 PM EST reply actions  

Delonte West I believe.

by TSV on Feb 25, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

More likely DWest to backup RR and Wafer to back Ray.

by thatswhatshesaid23 on Feb 25, 2011 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep. And Bradley behind those guys.

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Feb 25, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Buy Outs

I was wondering about how Danny knows who will be available….and more. A GM can not talk to another teams player, right. That would be tampering. Probably can’t talk to an agent of the player. So, the GM can talk to another GM (Cleveland) who can say what the other player (Powe) is thinking, right? Thus, with all the teams that were involved with the Celtics trades, there could be secondary deals basically already made.

by John Burton on Feb 25, 2011 5:23 PM EST reply actions  

Hopefully some good ones to follow.

by TSV on Feb 25, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Some fans...

may not liked what Danny Ainge did and some may actually do. But, now is the time to support the team more and look forward to number 18. I am hoping and praying that at least Shaq will get healthy enough to play 25-30 minutes per game. Or, if the refs actually give him a break and stop calling those touch fouls on him. Green will provide some spark of the bench and that number 1 draft pick from the Clips is looking good, even if it is top 10 protected. There will be players from 11-13 who can make a big impact in the future.

"I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end."
--- Larry Bird

by Army_of_One_Nation(Celtic's Nation) on Feb 25, 2011 5:45 PM EST reply actions  

Like an M16A4...

ranges for the M16/A2 Rifle:
Maximum Range – 3,600 meters
Max Effective Range for a Point Target – 550 meters
Max Effective Range for an Area Target – 800 meters

Shaq:
Maximum minutes- 35 minutes
Max effective minutes regular season- 20-22 minutes
Max effective minutes play-offs- 25-30

"I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end."
--- Larry Bird

by Army_of_One_Nation(Celtic's Nation) on Feb 25, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Hope Green and Krstic play tomorrow so we can see the new Celts in action , the Clippers are always tough …..

by juanpan on Feb 25, 2011 5:52 PM EST reply actions  

This is Danny's revenge for getting shipped in '89

I’m probably not the first person to make this joke, but these threads are getting too long to read all the way through.

Seriously, though, the last time I remember feeling this emotional about a Celts trade was when Danny got moved. Totally blindsided my 16-yr-old self. Me and my friends gathered in the local gym that night, stunned. Who the f*** is Joe Klein??

by Cannoneo on Feb 25, 2011 6:37 PM EST reply actions  

I feel your pain...

When Perk was traded yesterday and the big 5 were broken up, it also reminded me of 1989 when Ainge was traded and the big 5 of the Bird era were broken up.

I was also in my late teens at the time and was stunned and in disbelief to hear Ainge was traded as I was when I heard the news yesterday Perk was.

by fordescort on Feb 25, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Shaq and J.O. hold the keys to the C's success this year....

If they can get healthy and stay healthy the rest of the season I think the C’s will be ok as they make there quest for banner 18.

Though it was tough to see Perk go yesterday I think the trades Danny made upgraded the back up small forward position with Green taking over for Daniels and the 3rd string center position with Krstic a upgrade over Erden.

If Shaq and J.O. return and take over for Perk, though there will be a slight drop off defensively compared to Perk, the Oneal’s should be able to fill in for Perk decently enough and on the plus side be more potent offensive scoring centers then Perk was which will be a overall net plus.

Then if Danny can add more depth to the bench, maybe add 2 more bigs like Murphy and a defensive minded center like Camby or Dalembert along with another wing player, the roster will look something like this in a few days:

Point guard: Rondo, Delonte, Bradley
Shooting guard: Allen, Delonte, Wafer
Small forward: Pierce, Green, Wafer (wing player X)
Power forward: KG, Baby, Green, Murphy, (maybe Camby)
Center: Shaq, J.O. Krstic, Murphy, (Dalember or Camby)

The roster above would then be I think a deeper, more talented then the roster the C’s had prior to the trade deadline as they head toward the playoffs.

by fordescort on Feb 25, 2011 6:54 PM EST reply actions  

Yea I heard that also...

With the questions surrounding Shaq and J.O., I hope he changes his mind and goes with 2 bigs and a wing player instead to fill the roster.

by fordescort on Feb 25, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

even without the ifs

we know the big 4 are solid. shaq does his job.

the bench is vastly improved and we almost always have either ray or pierce in with them. we may not need to do this now and if we do it is likley ray.

west, ray, green, davis and JO/krstic is a pretty decent looking 2nd squad

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Feb 25, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

The Ifs are Shaq and JO and what free agents Danny signs

If neither of them is healthy, and Shaq is really the key guy, the Celts will not win the title. I think it is as simple as that.

by vinnie on Feb 26, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

totally disagree with you 9ergods

Jo and Shaq still not playing.. Still an IF

bench vastly improved? still and IF

just disagree

Is it Soup Yet?

by Master Po on Feb 25, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Krstic and Green aren't an upgrade over Erden and Nate?

I mean if we’re evaluating the bench, you can to look at it in that light. We expect Krstic to be a back up Center in the playoffs, when it matters most. Green will take over the back up 3/4 role, and provide that scoring punch off the bench we thought we’d get from Nate this year, but never did.

So how is that not vastly improved? Both of those guys were starters for the past 3 years.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

by Sizzlack on Feb 26, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

One critque

you gotta grab the 2011 version of Danny Ainge – the one you have makes him look gaunt. He’s gray and chubby cheeked like me these days . . .

by Jack Jemsek on Feb 25, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks Jack but...

I don’t choose the pictures. Article was a bit long, but it flew off my fingers.

I didn’t read the back and forth in the other article before I wrote this one but some (much) of what I said was iterated in comments in that post. Smart group – even those who disagree!

by Tom Halzack on Feb 25, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice to see that the shock is wearing off

Danny A did not act capriciously; he is a shrewd b-ball dude; Green is fabulous addition-we finally have a long and athletic big who was OKC’s third scorer; Krstic is an uprade over Semih (altho I feel bad for trading him) ; DA must also have known that Troy Murphy was coming to Boston; and we must also suspect that someone is also coming from Cleveland. So with the likelihood that Perk would not have signed a new deal anyway, this entire scenario was good for us.
Emotionally tough to deal with by the Big 4- so lets hope they dig in, win #18 and make sure that Perk is awarded a ring as well next October.
Probably not going to be easy for Green/Krtic either joining a team that is grieving over Perk

by gocanes1 on Feb 25, 2011 7:00 PM EST reply actions  

Green has shot the 3 at a higher percentage (.338 vs. .331) in his first 4 years

than Posey did—and Posey was two years older when he came into the league.

by clover on Feb 25, 2011 7:13 PM EST reply actions  

Loved the post Tom

took a lot of the words right out of my mouth. Alhough it’s early, I like the trade for the C’s.

by Jimmy Toscano on Feb 25, 2011 7:44 PM EST reply actions  

Gratzi Jimmy....

Would to see your take as well. I understand the concern by those who disagree. Quite a shake up and a move towards more offense (less defense?) at this point.

Removing a member of the starting 5 of a team doing this well is stunning. It also suggests that Ainge believes the need for more offense is greater than we may think – if we take Danny at face value.

by Tom Halzack on Feb 25, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah Po....

I know you’re not with me on this one and I understand. It is a risky business trading Perkins with the O’Neals as injured as they have been.

Time will tell, but I’m taking the optimistic route. There are other good players they can add that make this make more sense – Pryzbilla, Murphy, Dalembert, Anthony Parker, Rip Hamilton (I know you don’t like him either) among others.

Remember the Cs defense has been excellent without Perkins… so far. I will miss Perkins, too.

by Tom Halzack on Feb 25, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Perk

We gave up something, and we gained something, Ill miss Perks tough snarling demeaner, I think it scared some of the other centers, and he gave a 100% of himself every day, you dont find that in many players, but like everyone else on here says, its time to move on. If Boston doesnt make it to the championship, than Danny boy will be thrown in Boston Harbor, right where they threw the tea 250 years ago, with a pair of cement shoes, and if they win the championship he will be the hero who brought two titles to Boston, and will live in imortality with our other great coaches. Only time will tell. The sad part for Ainge is, they might have lost with Perk, but he wont be able to convince anyone else of that. Hes put himself in a precarious position. I give him credit, hes got brass balls. If the Celtics dont win it all it could mean his job, people in Boston only love winners, not runnerups.

by angloamer on Feb 25, 2011 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

Green will help with the scoring droughts the C’s tend to hit at least once a game. Feel that Erden trade for a future 2nd rounder was a waste. Should have used him to pry something that could be useful this year or next. Not in 2013.

by hilt.alh on Feb 25, 2011 9:28 PM EST reply actions  

It all rests on Dalembert

We had these offensive droughts last year but when the playoffs came our defense ultimately got the job done. Thats because defense normally wins championships. Alot of people say its an excuse but I honestly believe we would have been champs last year if Perk had not got injured. Anyhow come playoff time i believe the Lakers will roll over San Antonio and Oklahoma. If we get to the finals we will again be at a big size disadvatage unless they can get Dalemebert, theres no other buyout options that could even go close to giving us what Perk gave us. The Lakers IMO feared the Celtics b/c they were the bullies, I doubt they will fear them now. I really think Ainge has blown it big time. On another note, how could Miami possibly afford to give Perk 8 mil per year? If they can one wonders what is the point of having a salary cap

by Casey Turner on Feb 26, 2011 8:52 AM EST reply actions  

I don't think Lakers will win the east

SA looks pretty good, and we have to wait and see what DA plans are. There’s a reason for clearing all those roster spaces, obviously he has something in mind, why giving Semih and Luke almost free to Cleveland.

by greenSanDiego on Feb 26, 2011 7:36 PM EST reply actions  

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