Kevin Garnett Is a Jerk, But He's Our Jerk
by Jeff Clark on Feb 7, 2011 11:56 AM EST
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Kevin Garnett's reputation around the league and in the minds of fans is starting to solidify into what will become his legacy. He's (rightly) viewed as one of the best defensive players ever, a fierce competitor and an NBA Champion, ...and a really big jerk. The only question I have is, as a fan, how much do I care about that last part?
When it boils down to it, we typically root for laundry, right? The players come and go and they mean a lot, but if they change jerseys, they become the enemy (right Eddie House?). So there is a tendency to excuse behavior from someone on your team that you would abhor if he was wearing a different jersey. Which brings us to Garnett.
KG is a really unique cat, so there's not a lot of precedent to go on here. Most sports villains are cheaters (Bonds, Clemens, Belichick) or off-court transgressors (Vick, Rothlisberger, Tiger, Kobe?). But Garnett has never been accused of either of those things.
In fact, when he's playing the game (I mean actually playing the game, not the extracurricular stuff) he absolutely plays it "the right way" as Larry Brown might say. He gives you all his effort, he's committed to defense, and he puts his team first every time. He's the kind of guy you want on your side. The problem is the extra stuff he does on the court. Kelly Dwyer summed it up well when he said (via Ball Don't Lie)
We can all agree that Garnett is, at best, annoying and, at worst, cheap and disrespectful, but holy lord can that guy affect a game defensively.
There are no shortage of articles saying essentially the same thing about Garnett. Of course, it is one thing when a sports writer says it and another thing when a player's peers say it. This year alone we've heard negative impressions about Garnett in the press from players like Joakim Noah, Charlie Villenueva, and Dwight Howard.
Suns' coach Alvin Gentry took it a step further.
Gentry: I lost a little respect for Kevin Garnett - ArizonaSports.com (via PBT)
"I used to be a big fan of [Kevin Garnett]," he said. "Some of the antics he's pulled lately, you don't need to do that as a star player. I've never seen Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or even a Dwyane Wade do that." "You can compete and play hard, that doesn't need to be a part of it. It really doesn't," he said. "To do that to someone you can seriously hurt him," he said. "You know the fact that all of a sudden Channing comes down on his foot twice on jump shots that's a very dangerous play. "If you're asking me, yeah, I lost a little respect for him. I love his competitive nature but there is no place for what he was doing in our game."
Stepping back for a moment, let's review some of Garnett's list of incidents and habits.
- Back in Minny, he got into fights with then-teammates Wally Sczerbiak and Rick Rickert. Not exactly team building activities.
- He's known for barking at players and crawling on all fours. A bit melodramatic but harmless unless the players are thin skinned.
- He talks trash incessantly. But so does Paul Pierce and many others. He also talks trash to himself so at least he's consistent (or consistently nuts).
- Suspended for a game in last year's Heat series for throwing a punch/elbow.
- He either called Charlie V. a "cancer patient" or said he was "a cancer" depending on who you believe. Probably offensive either way but he apologized to coach Karl and made an effort to clarify to the public and show proper respect to those suffering from it.
- He's known for "picking on lesser players." Perhaps. Though I distinctly remember him screaming at Tim Duncan a number of years back. I just don't think he cares (or even knows) who he's interacting with in the heat of the moment.
- He's known for being hyper focused on game day, refusing to give interviews before games. Again, not the first athlete to be like that. They said Roger Clemens would walk over his own mother if she was standing in his way on game days. Ok, perhaps he's not a great moral example, but you get the idea.
- He's also known for something that I'll call "baiting." Meaning, he'll brush by someone or outright check them at midcourt (like Chandler) but immediately throw his hands up in the air as if to say "I'm doing nothing, I'm helpless here, if he attacks me he's the one at fault." Pretty petty and kind of dirty but it could also give his team an edge if it gets in the head of the opponent. (personally I'm not a fan of this kind of rationalization)
- Refused to sign a basketball for a ball boy and made a comment about Bin Laden. Not exactly polite or PC behavior, but not exactly something new or unique to him either.
- Which brings us to The Groin Tap. Did he mean to hit him there? Or was he just aiming for the stomach in an attempt to distract him and just missed low? More importantly, did he mean to slide his foot under the Frye's foot (twice) or was he just trying to get close enough to make the shooter uncomfortable? Intent matters here and only KG knows his true intent.
The point I'm trying to make here is that any one or two of these things can seem pretty innocuous. But when you review the aggregate body of work, it starts to formulate an unattractive image. What once was excused as idiosyncrasies become pieces of evidence in the case against his character. So that now whenever another incident happens, it becomes magnified beyond what the actual incident calls for due to the cumulative effect of his actions.
The bottom line conclusion is that he comes across (on the court) as a really big jerk. There's just no way around that. But that doesn't mean I will stop rooting for him. It just means that I sometimes have to take him with a large grain of salt. I don't like or always support everything he does, but I admit I give him more leash than I would if he was on any other team.
I find myself thinking about my new son. When he grows up and (Lord willing) starts to play basketball, KG will long since have retired. But if he was old enough to play now, would I point to KG and tell him to model himself after him? Absolutely not. Rather, I would use him as an example of what it looks like when you allow yourself to be controlled too much by your emotion. The same passion and competitiveness that drive him are what send him over the top. It seems like he almost can't control himself after a certain point. And that's scary.
So what gives? Why is he like this? By all accounts he's a very sweet, funny, caring, and of course loyal guy to those he's close to off the court. His teammates love him and he's very charismatic when he wants to be. His story has been told (what he's allowed people to see at least) and I seem to remember there being someone that betrayed him early on, so now he doesn't trust other people and stays very private. He also was greatly impacted by losing former teammate Malik Sealy. I get that, but we all have losses in our lives. We've all been hurt or wronged in the past and I'm not judging anyone on how they cope. But just the same, we own our actions and how we react to those hurts and wrongs is on us. Same goes for Kevin.
I think he even knows that he's out of line sometimes but refuses to admit it. He's talked about the fact that he curses because that's who he is. He took it a step further this week by proclaiming that " I never apologize for my actions, as I play with passion."
I suppose we should give him some credit for being consistent. He is who he is and you know where you stand with him always. Unlike say someone like Dwight Howard who will smile and laugh and jab you with a well placed (and huge) elbow.
I get the feeling that Garnett feels like his emotions drive him to the levels he wants to be at and without them he'd fall short. Kind of a Darth Vader going to the dark side scenario if you will. In fact, he seems willing to take on the villain role in order to achieve his goals. Sort of an "ends justifies the means" scenario (again, not something I agree with at all).
Not to play pocket psychologist or anything, but perhaps he's scared. Maybe he's really afraid that if he lets up for one minute that he'll lose it all. So it is almost as if he's trying to prove that he's just as aggressive and intense as his reputation dictates so he's got to keep pushing the limit.
Like I said, I don't want to go too far down that winding road because I don't know the guy, never had a conversation with him, and could never fully understand what it is like to walk a mile (or run for miles on the beach - determined to rehab from injury) in his shoes.
What we can assume is that he wants to win. In part for himself, but also for his teammates. He would saw off his own arm for his team and he sees the other team as the enemy. That's a good thing in moderation but he just takes it too far. He's trying to do what he feels is right (and his HOF career and Championship ring are evidence to him that he's doing the right thing). That doesn't fully excuse his actions, but it does matter.
Along those lines, I think in most cases it boils down to intent. There have been recent accusations that he's intentionally trying to hurt people. That is something that I could not support or even justify in any way. However, proving that intent would be difficult at best. As a fan, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I can understand where some would not.
All I know is that he's one of the biggest stars in the game, a certain Hall of Famer, and perhaps most importantly to me a Celtic that raised a banner for Boston and in the process of trying to raise another one. But he's starting to get a tarnished legacy because of his actions. Will he be remembered as a champion and a legend or will he be remembered as a bully? Well, it will probably be a bit of both.
I love Kevin like I love family, warts and all. I'm not going to make excuses for him or rationalize every incident away. He can be a jerk sometimes. But at the same time, I'm not going to turn on him because he sometimes (ok, often) rubs people the wrong way. To me, he's like a crazy uncle that does lots of fun stuff but occasionally goes too far and breaks things around the house.
Yes, Kevin Garnett is a jerk. But he's also a Celtic and he's our jerk.
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I'm a Garnett fan for almost a decade now. And yes he can be a jerk sometimes.
I wholeheartedly agree with this post. I’m not a big supporter of the “other things” he does on the court, but maybe without those, he will not be the player that we’re glad is on our side.
Hopefully he’ll tone it down a little bit as not to tarnish his legacy. IMO, what is the solution to that? Winning. Win another one (or more if you like), and all these will be unspoken of.
Even Jordan was a great trash talker and Kobe was a rapist, but do fans and the general media remember them solely for these, if remembered at all (of course, Celtics fans always remember that about Kobe)? Not really. So win. Win for yourself, win for the C’s.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
please be careful with the Kobe comments
as far as we know, he’s only been accused of rape – I don’t like hearing that label attached to anyone (even someone I dislike as much as Kobe) without a court conviction
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
Thought of typing accused rapist as I was clicking the post button. But you can't edit comments right? :|
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Feb 7, 2011 5:38 AM EST up reply actions
Can't correct on the comment,,but you can add a reply to your comment for clarification
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
In Kobe's case
the woman in question had a big time credibility issue (having sex with 3 different men in
3 days tends to do that)..I would say he is one lucky S.O.B. myself.
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
by Great Gatsby on Feb 7, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
yeah but why pay her all that money?
that doesnt exactly say, hey, im inocent
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 7, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
That's why
I called him one lucky S.O.B….The prosecution really had no choice in his case.
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
by Great Gatsby on Feb 7, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Does "He was lucky" imply that he was guilty?
… And “got away with something”? That is just plain FALSE, as Jeff pointed out. ‘Innocent till proven guilty’ means something. This a felony we’re talking about, not basketball. And our opinions aren’t worth squat, because we known nothing but what we read in the media… and if he were so inclined, btw, Kobe could sue anyone publishing that he’s a “rapist” for libel.
I’ll give my opinion too, and yeah, it’s not worth more than squat either. (Except, of course, that mine is logical…..) A woman with her contemporaneous sexual history, who came to Kobe’s hotel room in the dead of night, only to later claim complete innocence…. has NO credibility with me. Which means: Absent real proof, I don’t believe her at all; she was probably lying, and in it for the money.
I don't think it's "just plain FALSE"
that he got away with something, more like unknown whether he did or not.
True, technically
I don’t know for a FACT that the accusation is not true. But I do ‘know’ with relative certainty that anyone making the accusation here has no evidence or facts to back his position. Given our principle of innocence till proven guilt, I think it’s fair to say “False” to that… because it’s logically and morally FALSE to make the accusation… EVEN IF by some chance you happen to be actually correct.
That’s a subtle (and weird-sounding) point, and I’m SURE some here would argue against it (I could name the names, I’m that sure). But I stand by it. It’s morally FALSE — even repugnant — to accuse someone of a serious crime without evidence, or reasonable backup. The happenstance of reality — if unknown to the accuser at the time of the accusation — is irrelevant.
'she was probably lying'
‘innocent (of lying) until proven guilty’?
NO credibility … because of …. her sexual history?
struggling …. to find … consistency … arrgh …
You cannot compare the "guilt" of a potentially lying accuser
…to that of the potentially guilty felon. Someone is always lying in these cases. If you say Kobe is innocent (because he hasn’t been proven guilty) that is EQUIVALENT to saying the accuser is PROBABLY guilty of lying. They cannot both be telling the truth.
Sexual history is completely relevant, of course, as to her credibility when she claims she came to his room past midnight for completely innocent reasons. That’s why they allow these things as evidence in court cases. (But I will NOT dig up proof of THAT. We’re way beyond bball now.)
so ... if a woman goes to a man's room late a night
for something other than ‘completely innocent reasons’ (whatever that means) …. then her credibility on whether someone raped her is gone?
It argues against it, yes
…as does her sexual history, recent and otherwise. Somebody’s lying, and the court wants to get to the truth. So everything’s fair game, if it relates to the moral standing of the people involved. Kobe said, essentially: ‘she agreed.’ Her presence in his room, at that time, tends to support his contention.
But this is a weird and fraught area… not cut and dried at all. Probably best saved for some legal blog somewhere.
does the fact that Kobe paid her off with a settlement before it could go to trial
affect HIS credibility ?
BTW – you do realize that the woman was an employee of the hotel, right?
A woman can end up in a man’s room for lots of reasons, including that of planning all along to have sex. Lots and lots of sex. But if at some point before or even during the woman says, “No. Stop.”, if the man does not honor that, it is rape. It doesn’t matter how they got to that point.
Agree with some, don't know about the rest
Etc. But the settlement per se, to me, means nothing in terms of a reflection on Kobe. As a celebrity, he has all kinds of reasons to want the problem to go away. In his place, if I were completely innocent, I’d STILL be HAPPY to pay to make it go away. I’ve learned that much over the years, from various court cases: settling is always an important alternative, must always be considered. (Good advice, btw.)
It implies
“he was lucky” because it never went to a trial, as I mentioned above^ the woman
in question had serious credibility issues. I am not playing judge and jury, stating
facts. Only two people knew what happened, neither one of us, are one of those!
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
Agree
…that no one knows. But it wasn’t due to “luck” that it never went to trial. It was a specific decision by Kobe and his team to pay her off and make it all go away. Even if he was completely innocent… I think that was an excellent move. (He’s earned the cost back MANY times over with all the celebrity success he’s had.)
Kobe's elbows are equally harmful
as KGs trash talking. And Howardellis skills are far more deadly.
by friedgreentomatoes on Feb 7, 2011 12:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
as much as I hate to admit it
yeah, that’s not a bad comparison
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
Laimbeer
was much more of a dirty player, KG falls into more of the chippy variety. I still love recalling
the “Chief” cold-clocking Laimbeer.
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
by Great Gatsby on Feb 7, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, dirty players are pretty much those from the past.
Now you have a few hyper competitive guys – and only a few who will do what’s necessary to win. And I’ve never seen Garnett do an open floor tackel ala Fischer. Who could rightly be called the dirtiest player today.
Being a Clipper fan, I’ve seen Blake get hammered, thrown to the floor, slapped in the head, dozens of times this year (and the refs almost never call it – flagrants all). The reason is Blake, like KG plays hard every minute. Your basic NBA player (no matter how good they are) can’t deal with that kind of effort.
And using Noah and Howard as examples of players who complain about him – that’s a joke right?
Jealousy
I really can´t see any difference between KG´s “jerky stuff” and the “behaviour” of any other NBA player. I mean: trash talking, mind games, tricks, petty fights ??? C´mon, that´s what they all do !! I think that the problem is that KG´s an All star and that he´s got a ring (and hopefully he´ll get the second soon) So I´m afraid that it all comes down to one thing: jealousy. So there.
Intent is the issue.
Which as Jeff mentioned, is impossible to prove.
Were we to have any type of proof that he’s intentionally sliding his foot in on a play like that, that is wrong. You can really hurt someone doing that. Now since that intent is impossible to prove we, as Celtics fans, will give him the benefit of the doubt.
Other fans, will make their own conclusions, and that’s what makes him hated now. They will not give him that benefit of the doubt, and most likely will assume the exact opposite.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I can't see jealousy as the reason he's not well-liked
I think it’s more likely that his trash talk is getting under people’s skin. I’m sure he’s making derrogatory sttements to all opponents. The Charlie V thing was jsut oen example.
Absolutely, KG figured a long time ago
how to get in players heads, and now it’s part of his game. I don’t get the big deal.
The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde of Kevin Garnett - a repeat of a post.
Has anything changed since I last posted this? I think not.
Kevin Garnett is who he is, and is not going to change one whit. He is so totally focused and obsessed with winning, that there are times when he may do something that is totally unsportmanlike, without doing it consciously.
The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde of Kevin Garnett
lygafe on Dec 10, 2010 2:09 AM IST
After watching our Celtics deliver a thrashing to the Denver squad last night [ ending at close to 5 a.m. over here ] I was intrigued to see K. Garnett move swiftly over to the Denver side and appear to embrace and exchange words with George Karl.
Only in today’s reports from a number of sources, including Celtics Blog’s Jay King, did I ascertain that Garnett was making an apology to Karl, with regard to the ’ Cancer ’ statements that were blown out of all proportion by the media, that stemmed from an on court incident, that should have stayed there.
Off the court, Garnett appears to be a gentleman, a devoted family man and a decent human being, [ from the little I’ve seen and read of his personal life ]. This is the Dr. Jekyll side of his personality [ recently, there was an excellent, albeit short lived tv program emanating from the UK on the subject, using a modern version of the descendant of Jekyll- Hyde, two men who share the same body, one a devoted family man, and the other, who can become a raging maniac with incredible strength and agility. ]
On the court, is there any doubt that Garnett becomes a totally different person- the Hyde in his character, so to speak? His on court actions and antics demonstrate the change that he seems to undergo whenever he approaches the confines of a basketball court.
Although he isn’t a certified raging lunatic, he becomes like a person obsessed, and woe to anyone who approaches him the wrong way, whether opponent or even team mate, when he’s in Hyde mode, particularly during a game [ I haven’t seen any practices, so perhaps someone who has seen him at those times can add to this ].
He demonstrates not only heightened powers while on the court, but also turns into a snarling -in your face pitbull, who looks as though he’s gone into attack mode, who is ready to tear someone’s head off, if need be, in order to win the game.
All I can say is, more power to our Mr. Hyde, during the games, as he is the one who lights the fire under the team.
Let him be Dr. Jekyll before and after the games, but bring his Hyde persona to all our games, as he is our Mr. Hyde, and we need him to win banner no.18 at least.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
If he was on an opposing team in the playoffs, I would hate him.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
I think the bigger judge of character is what he does OFF of the court. Very few players are saints while on the court that is for sure. I think most of the things listed as his transgressions are pretty petty and the pleyers complaining about it show how watered down the league is. ‘KG said something mean to me! Wah!’ Players need to lay of on the tweets. Also they all happened on a basketball court.
I would rather have him be a passionate jerk on the court and a solid citizen outside of the game than the opposite of that.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 7, 2011 11:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jerk is a misnomer for Kevin Garnett, as he is anything but...
The dictionary definition of the word Jerk brings this up : it’s Slang, meaning: a contemptibly naive, fatuous, foolish, or inconsequential person.
Is Garnett contemptibly naive? I think not. He’s a man who knows exactly what he wants, and that is- to win.
Is Garnett fatuous, also meaning silly or foolish? There are times when he may appear to be that way, [ barking like a dog, and going down on all fours would count ] but it is not the daily occurrence with him.
Trash talking doesn’t qualify either, as these head games are played by a lot of the players- in every pro sport.
Is Garnett an inconsequential person? Not by any stretch of the imagination. He’s a vital cog in this Celtics team [ the very heart, many would say ].
So, apart from the times that Garnett has done some foolish things, and who among us hasn’t at some time or another, [ albeit not under a national tv spotlight ] why label him a Jerk?
In my opinion, a very poor choice of a word.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Nice. I don't like the word either.
Any alternative word in mind?
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Feb 7, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure that the dictionary definition fully encompasses the meaning...
“Jerk” is a nice way of saying all kinds of other synonyms that are slightly more profane. I agree with Jeff that KG comes across as a “jerk”, or a bully, or whatever word you want to use. I’m fine with it solely because he wears Celtics green. If he was on a rival, I think he’d be my least favorite player in the NBA. I think he’s the equivalent of Bill Laimbeer or (for hockey fans) Claude Lemieux: a guy who you hate playing against (even if you respect his game), but love having on your team.
The only thing I worry about is KG losing control, like he did in last year’s playoffs against Miami. Intensity is good, recklessness isn’t. He needs to be able to harness his emotions, not let them control him.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Claude Lemieux was one of the guys you would definitely want on your team in the playoffs.
That said, however, Kevin Garnett doesn’t even approach the type of foul player that Lemieux was known to be.
Then again, the modern game of basketball is a very gentle game when compared with ice hockey.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Talk is Cheap
Now if the rep is for throwing elbows (listening Dwight?), pushing airborne guys while off-balance (Travis?), or like acts that are provocative /injury inducing, yeh, that’s a problem.
Sorry Alvin-Frye, but groingate doesnt qualify.
As for the talk, not a jerk. A boor? A churl, perhaps (both imply lacking in refinement)? Btw, neither is Ben Rothlisberger. A cad. So sad, all these good, pungent words, ripe with meaning, all gone to waste.
I think Howard is the perfect example.
Outside of Orlando, Howard is hated for his seemingly complete inability to keep his elbows to himself. Intent again, is the issue. Were there to be any proof that he 100% knowingly is swinging his elbows about, with intent to injure, things would be very different. Orlando fans will give him the benefit of the doubt, as Celtics fans give Garnett the benefit of the doubt with him sliding his foot underneath. Other fans, will not.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Thing is before that game I had not heard anything about KG doing this. That is why I give him the benefit of the doubt. But Howard has been known to you his elbows quite often in games. There is the difference.
Yes, you do.
But non-Celtics fans won’t, that’s the point.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I agree with that
I have never seen KG do that kind of move before. He did do it twice in one game however, which to me means he was being reckless at the very least. I think the same thing could be said about Dwight’s elbows, i.e. being reckless but the difference there is that he seems to throw them around a lot.
+1
I can’t claim for sure that KG never did this before, but I agree with Nora and Berk that until this Phoenix game, I’d not heard of any issue with it.
Howard’s elbows, though, seem to clock someone every damn game.
Aside from the potential to hurt someone from sliding under – assuming that really happened in the way Gentry implies – none of the other stuff KG does bothers me at all.
In fact though Jeff’s article properly catalogs what looks like a long list of ‘crimes’ each one in theory can be diminished or dismissed with some sort of a rationalization. Reality could be as bad as all being true and terrible or as good as all being nothing but vapor. More likely somewhere in between. But a ton of players lie in that same grey area.
The thing with KG is that he’s just so intense that everything he does is magnified. Its hard to take your eyes off KG when he’s on the court. When he does something, its noticed.
I think also that some players realize this and actually try to goad KG on. A lot of his ‘antics’ have actually been in reaction to what others have been doing. For example, remember in last year’s playoffs when Howard kept grabbing KG tightly under the ribs and KG made a big spastic show of using his forearm to knock Howard’s hand away?
Actions speak louder than words....
But KG has shown that both can speak loud
KG is an exemplary model!
On The Court : He`s a 16 year superstar HOF veteran, who has pocketed over $250M…yet he still plays every game with the tenacity, passion, and hunger you`d expect from an undrafted rookie trying to win a roster spot in training camp.
Off The Court : No DUI`s, No drug allegations, No arrests, No bar brawls, No domestic disputes, No fan altercations, No weapon charges
The worst one can say about him is that he taunts or trash talks opposing players in the “heat of battle”?
His “victims” are all “hard as nails” grown men, superbly conditioned athletes, making a ton of money!
Hard to muster much sympathy for these poor “defenseless” victims!
+10000
Well said. Kg is a beast and while I may not agree with everything he does, I still respect the hell out of him. AND he really isnt doing anything different than any other nba player. All players talk trash, all players brush up against each other, all players throw little elbows….unfortunatley kg has become the poster boy of being a jerk in the nba, even though hes doing the same thing as any other guy. I feel he just gets picked on and is under a microscope. Not fair. Oh well, keep it up kg. play YOUR game.
by Kgwillkillyou on Feb 7, 2011 9:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The ultimate endorsement : KG is Bill Russell`s favorite current player
That, alone, is good enough for me!
He was one of my favorite NBA players before he was traded to Boston...
… as was Ray Allen.
Adding those two to the Celtics, along with characters like Paul Piece and Big Baby Davis (whom I loved when he was playing at LSU and being interviewed during March Madness that year), and even Nate Robinson has made this team a joy to watch.
I love Rajon Rondo’s approach to the game. I might not be the biggest NBA fan (more Patriots and Red Sox), but I do love watching this group play hard every night as a team. To me, that’s the work ethic (and team concept) that Garnett brought with him, and PP and Ray Allen helped him instill in the whole team.
Dirty or not, I love the man on my team.
by AlohaSox on Feb 7, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i love bill
and garnett is not his favorite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87JkSwW_-ow
i used to like garnett a lot, but the way he acts now is inexcusable. like allen, got nothing but positives for rondo, and love pierce ever since his days at kansas, but garnett? i respected him as a player until the suns game. my girlfriend (who’s not even a huge basketball fan, don’t get me started) looked up right as he flicked frye in the giblets, and gasped. now… i don’t know. garnett is definitely an all-time great player. as the total package? i’ll take david robinson as the model player/human. i’m not saying all players have to be saints, but is it too much to ask that people be decent? i don’t buy the “heated moment” bull, we’re not apes. have people and athletes sunk so low that we can’t be decent to each other?
maybe i don’t know enough about other players, and maybe my next statement makes me a little hypocritical, but even if you’re a hateful, wizened person on the inside, could you just sign the kid’s ball and not hit a guy in the nuts?
by absentiment on Feb 10, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Well said Title 18
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
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International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
+1 title 18
He is tenacious on the court and not suspect to the same off court troubles as many of his contemporaries.
I am sure he is a proper role models that hockey moms all over the country use as motivation for their wee ones.
The best players will bring their emotion to the court every game, they cant all be as churlish as the KGs Kobes or Lebrons, some could be as pleasant as a Darantula or Blake Griffen KG just uses head games to stay a notch above the competition. We cannot speak of his intent, I for one do not think he intends ti injur his opponents, but who knows, if that is the case it is a whole different story. Really I just think he is misunderstood and the “victim” of others projections of what they think he is or what his intentions are.
Personally I think he is a much better role model than say Lebron as Lebron thinks he is just entitled and doesnt need to work hard get what he wants but that his undenyable skill will just carry him beyond his peers and mentors. I think Lebron’s narcisism and Dwight’s elbows are of far more damage to the league and young fans than potty mouthed trash talking KG. Maybe I am biased, but I felt the same when he was with Minni.
Really though I think it speaks volumes that such an intense competitor is so quiet off the court.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 7, 2011 1:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Totally agree!
The opponents who don`t like KG are the same ones who don`t like Blake Griffin, and they would have disliked Cowens as well.
KG, Griffin, Cowens all play{ed} with intense passion…they brought it every night.
As a result, they made their “haters” look lazy…and that is why their haters hate them!
He better never turn out to be a child molester, wife beater, or thief
because you then become quite an extraordinary villian with no redeeming qualities…
I hope I never hear that about him…because right now I like the “take no prisioners” attitiude ….
The Jerk??? Well after all he was born a poor black child
Is it Soup Yet?
talkin trash...
i don’t think k.g. talks much more trash than kobe ,every game kobe’s always got this look on his face like no one can gaurd him ,(which not many guys in the n.b.a can gaurd kobe) but k.g. is one, if not the only player in the league that has the guts to talk trash with kobe , like last week in L.A. when kobe was taunting shaq after he got the and 1 on him (kinda wish shaq would have fouled him a little harder) k.g. was right there to let kobe know maybe next time he will get hit a little harder ….
lol halarious
you can tear down kg’s legacy no matter what. hes gonna be a hall of famer hes gonna be known as one of the best players to ever play, hes gonna be known as a champ. jordon beat up players got in there faces talked trash all the time. larry bird biggest trash talker in nba during the days. the only thing i care about is if hes trying to put his foot under another guys on a jump shot. that would be moronic and idiotic. hes crazy and nuts on the court but its thru passion. should he tone it down and yes pierce also. look at ray ray guys beautiful example of how life and the game should be played, love ray ray respect him to the max. nba is an honor be proud to be there. kg a jerk yes but that not gonna tarnish anything 10 years after hes played no one will be talking about him puttin a foot under channing no game frye
It won't be his legacy
Any more than being a jerk is part of Bird, Jordan, and a host of other’s legacies.
Take Exception To The Premise
KG is not a jerk. He doesn’t do anything on the court that other players don’t do. He’s NOT a dirty player. The Channing Frye incident is something that happens all the time. I’m sure he was aiming for a little shove at his stomach and was just a might slow. He couldn’t have hit him to hurt him because Frye was up in a second. That usually does not happen. KG is an intense player who the media likes to dislike.
Just listen to Jeff Van Gundy complaining about the way Perk was fouling Howard (when Howard threw the elbow at Perk). Perk did what every one does to him. Yes he was aggressive, yes he fouled Howard, but that’s the way the game is played. Then why was Van Gundy silent when Howard kneed Rondo in the thigh as Rondo was trying to get over the pick. To me, that was “dirty”. And compare that to the fouls called on Perk when he barely touches a guy.
Let’s not look at a few of KG’s actions in a vacuum and call him names. Look at what else goes on with all the players and then evaluate your statement. Look at the beatings that Pierce and Ray and Rondo take nightly without anything being called.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
I’ve felt for a few years now that Dwight plays dirty, much more so than KG. There’s no comparison, in my opinion. Then he flashes that very annoying smile like he’s a perfect angel. I was upset with KG and thought he would be in trouble for throwing off the ref’s arm after the Frye incident, but when my husband (who is a referee himself) watched it, he had no problem with it at all and said the ref shouldn’t have grabbed his arm in the first place.
That was in the Dallas game.
When he shoved Barea, which was kind of a bush league move itself. I mean Barea’s like what, 15 inches smaller than him? Barea made a good play, it was a good foul, you want him to wrap the guy up and make sure he doesn’t get off the shot, there was nothing wrong there.
KG is a punk for shoving the guy, I’m not going to excuse it. But, I agree with you after that, the Refs had no business grabbing him like that, while he was walking away from the whole thing.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I guess Barea should not be on the court if this is that big of an issue. Players get shoved all the time in the NBA if players can’t handle it they should not be in the NBA because it will happen on occasion. I’m sure players are in there thinking ‘oh he is 15 inches shorter then me I better not shove him’ I don’t think so. They are in the middle of the game and sometimes it can get testy.
I don't see your point.
The point was that Garnett had no business shoving Barea there, the guy made a good play and did what he’s suppose to do; don’t let the shot go up.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Well you better get mad at every player because that stuff is going to happen no matter if the player made a good play or not. This is the NBA it will happen on occasion. KG has been hit and shoved as well for no particular reason at times too. Heck he was hit in the neck/head area not to long ago.
Doesn't excuse it.
There was no need to shove Barea. You can talk all you want about “it’s the NBA and it happens” but it doesn’t excuse it.
Just because it happens all the time, doesn’t excuse KG for, what was clearly, a punk move. Shoving a guy over a ft shorter than you for no reason whatsoever, after he made a good play and did exactly what he was suppose to do? Punk move.
Look, I love KG’s competitive drive, I love his fire and spirit, I love the way he plays the game. But he was wrong in this case, Barea did nothing wrong, and there was no reason for the shove. Refs were 100% right to T him up, he well deserved it.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Umm... it was YOU who brought up Barea's relative stature.
Nora’s pointing out properly that that should be irrelevant.
Fine, forget his size.
Which we can argue whether or not it should matter (I’d still argue it does, does he shove Dwight Howard like that?… Dunno but taking on a guy over a ft shorter than you certainly isn’t helping your “Fake tough guy” image KG.) regardless, no matter who he shoved, it shouldn’t have happened.
Barea made the right play, KGs shove was a punk move.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Agree
The Barea shove was over the line. Barea’s play was just about perfectly executed.
I suppose KG should shake his hand and congratulate him. It is alot easier to see these things when you are not playing and see replays. LOL
I dunno, I see that foul and awful lot in the NBA.
Guys grabbing their arms and holding them to make sure they don’t get the shot up.
I certainly don’t see one player shoving the other every time it happens.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
KG also doesn’t shove everyone who fouls him either. It was probably just a heat of the moment thing.
Fine, I'll accept that.
But it was a punk move. He certainly seems to take exception to those things more often than others. But hey, that’s just me.
Look I’m not saying he should change a thing, I love his intensity, and am more than willing to accept some of this junk happening in light of what he does bring to the team: a never say quit fire and tenacity.
But let’s call a spade and spade and look at his action there for exactly what it was: a punk move.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
maybe because that (insisting on calling it a "punk move") seems kindof beligerant in itself.
You don’t seem to want to allow for any alternate interpretation.
How about you call a spade a spade and look at his action there for exactly what you think it was: a punk move.
While others maybe have a different view of it.
And the only counter argument presented...
Has basically been to say “It happens, everyone does it, deal with it” Like that’s suppose to be some kind of excuse to make it ok?
You can disagree with me, sure, but provide something other than “It happens.”
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
It's just semantics at this point
I don’t think anyone can argue that it was a GOOD thing to do. It’s just a matter of what to call it. You call it “punk move,” others may say it was poor judgment, or a momentary lapse, or emotional reaction. Whatever. It was wrong, that’s for sure. And given the accumulating bad PR, it was doubly wrong for KG. He needs to tone it down now, let this stuff blow over.
then to you, size matters
and you can not ‘forget his size’.
Size matters.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
jackson versus Van GUndy
it you listen to Jeff VG, Dwight Howard gets a raw deal and KG is a jerk. I happen to think Dwight Howard is one of the dirtiest players in the league and that he gets away with a ton of stuff. KG is no saint and he pulls his share of stuff but in terms of actively trying to hurt someone he’s no where close to Howard. Howard constantly rakes his arm across guys heads and faces. He did it to us in the playoffs repeatedly last year. It was ironic justive yesterday that Semih did to Howard what Howard constantly does to other players. As far as KG goes, when he was on the WOlves I thought he was a jerk. Now, he’s our jerk. I used to dislike Shaq but now I root for him. As you say, it’s all about what jersey they’re wearing. How about JOhnny Damon or clemens going to the yankees? Damon won game 7 against the yankees in 2004 with a 2 home runs. Then he goes to the Yankees. Did we still love him?
Annoying, but funny as hell was JVG having
a nervous breakdown on national TV because his brother’s team Can’t Beat the Celtics.
Friggin hilarious.
If there is "Fake Tough" and "Real Tough"
Is there "Fake Jerk "and “Real JerK”?
Red2….Mark Jackson is the worst announcer on TV next to Mike Breen. I heard what JVG was saying yestersday and I don’t think he was saying exactly what you were thought he said. What I heard him say was the Dwight Howard gets too beat up underneath and does not have enough fouls called for him as opposed to someone like LeBron or Wade…or Chris Paul etc…..Thn Jackson brought up KG when KG was pushed down by Howard and di not react…. and used KG as an example of “decorum” and JVG said KG is not your poster boy for “decorum” and he is right.
By the way I hate Dwight Howard with a passion ….but not like I hate those ABC announcers…..brutal…
Is it Soup Yet?
It's the officials and league's job to decide
The league and its officials are in charge of on court behavior. A player as big and attention getting as KG (and given his reputation) is, or should be under, the radar of the league. If they aren’t fouling him up every play, if they aren’t suspending him then his critics need to shut up. The league allows many things that may or may not help basketball be played in its purest form. They allow low post players to a take a beating but not guards. They created the NBA superstar scorer by allowing the extra step after the dribble (and today sometimes allow certain superstars two and three steps after the dribble). If you have a problem with KG, take it up with the league. And who cares what Jeff Van Gundy says? If he were coaching KG, he’d be praising him. KG is not the first nor will he be the last player to trash talk and intimidate. Is he politically correct? No. He’s a basketball player. And it’s hard to argue with what he’s done for his team over the past three years. The media hyped superstars of this era may get all of the press for their 50 point games, but KG has made every single player on his team better. How many of today’s players can say that?
talking trash is part 0f the game i thnk its part of kg's game plan...
kg wants to get into the mind 0f his opp0nent..but i stil thnk kg is a nice guy but on the c0urt his a mean guy and he means business..its all ab0ut 18! celts fan fr0m the philippines! celtics! h0rrahh!!!
Doc on KG
Doc was asked how he felt about KG when he played aganist him.His reply was i hated him because i thought some of his intensity and tenancity was manufactured…but once i became his coach i found out its all real,there’s nothing fake or manufactured about any of Kevin’s game.Matter of fact Doc loves KG’s approach to the game.I guess its like anything else,observing something from afar gives you one impression,real life experience is another.
When i look at all the flopping going on by players who are reocgnized as star players,when i see all the whinning going on by players who are recognized as the best players,and when i see the abuse of simple fundamentals of the game go un noticed night after night by officials we tend to focus to much on a single players attics a little more than we should.If KG was abusing the fundamentals of the game night after night or whinning to officials nonstop,i would be more offended or worry about his actions on the court.
excellent article Jeff...
one of your best of the season, IMHO.
Great read and perspective on a somewhat complicated, or at least, eccentric personality and from the fan’s perspective as you so very well.
This.
Excellent, Jeff.
-sw
Grouchy Oscar
by Steve Weinman on Feb 7, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
that is meant to read...
“as you do so very well.
Po!
I grab a minute here and there to keep up…but it is tough. Yikes!
Why do we have to work for a living?
Hope you are doing well.
Garnett
This is a joke right, How many nasty players have there been over the years worse than Kevin ever was. How about Bill Lambeer, and the whole piston team, Dwight Howard has 14 technicals for dirty play. Steven Jackson has 12. Kareem was famous for swinging his elbows at people when he got a rebound, and our own guy Perkins has been known to shove people from time to time. Every player in the NBA pushes and shoves people in every game, Hes no better or no worse than any one else, he just plays hard all the time, and other players dont like it. If any of you remember the 70s and 80s there were fights all the time. Look at Rudy T, he got punched in the face and was out for a whole year with a broken jaw, and the Laker and Celtics championships of the 80s were some of the most physical I have ever seen. The stuff KG does is nothing compared to those days. These players today are pussys.
Take off your green colored glasses
I have no doubt that KG is not only a dirty player, but hated by other players due to his trash talk. He is a jerk for sure and is guilty of CONSTANT dirty play and trash talk.
Stop watching all sports is all I can suggest then. Oh no KG said something mean. Trash talking is hardly the federal crime you seem to think it is. Constant dirty play? Whatever. Stop the constant hate.
Then I guess you missed the point of both Jeff's article AND my post
I am not hating on KG, just pointing out facts as Jeff did. I don’t like his constant trash talking and some of his dirty play, but apparently this is who he is and he wouldn’t be so great if he didn’t have some of these things to keep him passionate and into the game.
Oh and one more thing, I agree with all the posters who said they would hate KG if he was on an opposing team. Now if KG was a lesser player or a fake (like Howard) or had some off-court baggage, then I MIGHT hate as a Celtics too, but he doesn’t and I don’t (hate).
Just a note on Rudy,
he had his whole face crushed. I think he almost (or could have) died.
Most brutal thing
I have seen in the NBA, it happened very swiftly!
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
KG looked really weird in that clip Lol
Wrong jersey too. :D
Dwight is pretty amazing, gotta hand it to him. He also said this after the game about his technical: “It shouldn’t have even been a foul,” Howard said. “It makes me look like a bully, which is not the case.”
Lighten up. He's just mocking KG, all in fun. That said...
I’m not a fan of Howard either, but mainly because I think he’s overrated as a player.
+1
I’m not fond of his demeanor on the court. Relies too much on his athleticism. He’s an overrated defender, just jumps high to block shots. Perk to to me is a much smarter and more accomplished defender
He’s not a franchise player, doesn’t have that “second gear” to dominate and take over a game. The one point in the second half against the Heat at home. The one field goal in the second half last night against the Celtics. And the constant fouling. Not really wishing for him to be on the Celtics
by OsirusCeltics on Feb 7, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Just a sign of his immaturity coming into play
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Yeah youknow the more I see him the less I want to see him in green. Feel like purple and gold are unfortunately more his colors.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 7, 2011 2:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He reportedly wants to go to LA and NY.
How either team can afford him, is another issue entirely.
No way he signs a Mid level deal, and neither can can afford more than that, at least in their current state. LA would have to give up on Bynum for sure, and if NY signs Carmelo, they’re completely capped.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Very good subject
NBA is about entertainment and KG is certainly that. It is certainly not fake and I’m sure KG’s wife has said to him many times “Why do you have to do that?”, or “That’s embarassing” but, my God, that guy is never boring. From the pre-opening tap rituals, banging his head on the padding, pointing manically to each ref, he is a piece of work. Do not miss who goes the most crazy on the bench if a young guy does something good. Do not miss the head slaps Rondo gets when he threads a needle pass etc. Do not miss who slaps palms on every, single made free throw and reaches his hands back for slaps that mostly don’t come. But he still reaches for them. Nobody enjoys Gino like KG. He is not a jerk. He keeps his wildness out on the court. KG is gracious with credit to his teamates and we don’t have any club house problems becasue he is an incredible force of “team-first”.
Ok, so he slobbers on the court, uses the F-bomb way too much, and goes after you mentally if he can on court. Guilty, guilty, guilty.
It is a very good subject to write about becasue we do love him and he makes us wince some time but I’ll take him any day.
By the way, I think Mark Jackson is good. I love “Knock down shootah”. Van Gundy though is terrible.
by Wildblu1 on Feb 7, 2011 12:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
i’ve always liked kg, right from the getgo. i’ve always thought he was better than tim duncan-both great hof players, but what separated them was kg’s intensity and manic drive. i do appreciate duncan’s class and longevity. it’s a long grind, a season that is interminable and that’s not even mentioning the off season training and rituals. kg seems to have to blow himself up to get thru it and it works for him, he propels himself like a rocket. very often, i see pp taking time off when he’s on the floor, resting and gathering himself for what he has to do. it annoys me that he does it, but it works. i think some of kg’s ways have accelerated lately because he’s near the end. his time for titles is limited and he has to push harder to get thru the miles on his tires. like pp’s resting, some of what he does annys me but it works for him. i donot see him as a dirty player, but more as one who wants to nettle the other guy.
Try to read " Comments from the other side - Magic 2/6"
I bust a gut laughing; a large number of the comments are hilarious.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
He's a intense player!
Lambeer from the pistons was a jerk! This is the guy who would try to hurt somebody, because he wasn’t goo enough a player.
Steve in Houston
WHO CARES!
Laimbeer wasn’t a jerk, he was a complete A-hole and a cry baby! To compare the two is an insult to KG. How many friends do you think Legend made during the time he played? Not many. Check out some of the trash Larry used to talk:
http://www.the-mainboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=5097.0;wap2
KG is a bully. Not a jerk, a bully.
My concern is this is going to cost him and the Celtics at some point this year, and I hope it is not in the playoffs.
KG is the IDEAL
KG has the IDEAL oncourt and offcourt demeanor. He gives himself and his team every conceivable edge, searches relentlessly for every advantage no matter how big or small, exploits it ruthlessly, and tries to leave his opponent frustrated and beaten, while also being the PERFECT teammate, a willing passer, somebody willing to do the dirty work, somebody who within .7 seconds is there picking up a fallen teammate, or high-fiving a teammate for a nice pass, or yelling out defensive instructions. KG is the definition of giving 110% on the court at all times no matter score or situation. If I have kids, I’d want every one of them to play EXACTLY like KG.
Since when to do we let the other team’s viewpoint and perspective inform how we rate our players? KG is no jerk. He’s a hard ass and he lives by a code that’s been forgotten in today’s world where feelings are more important than results. He comes from the time before this one where men didn’t hug other men before and after battle, a time when you genuinely hated your opponent and wished them on-court humiliation, a time where you could give a good hard foul and not be worried about some yahoo slo-mo-ing it and fining you 25 grand the next day.
KG’s reputation is media-driven like every other famous person’s reputation. In reality, there are lots of dirtier players in this league, guys like Howard or Artest to name a couple. There are lots of jerks out there too. But none of those players play harder than KG, nor mean more to their teammates, nor do more off the court in terms of donations and charity works than KG—yet all we hear about KG is how he’s a bully and a cheap shot artist and a jerk.
Society has changed in the last 20 years. The things that once were valued are now worthless. KG is a remnant from that earlier time. We are lucky to have him, lucky to learn from him, and don’t let eunuchs like Kelly Dwyer tell you any different.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 7, 2011 1:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+1 Fantastic post
I quite agree
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 7, 2011 2:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He still needs to grow up
- These KG “issues” are pretty recent. Started only a few weeks ago. It’s not like he has a lifetime of problems like this.
- Is it ok to foul someone for the express purpose of goading them into a tech, or worse? If it’s in the rules, sure, why not?
- Is it ok to HURT a fellow player while trying to goad them? Absolutely not. That’s beyond the pale, without question.
- The only time KG came close to purposely hurting anyone was when his foot was under Frye twice in one game. Gentry concluded that was done on purpose. But there is ZERO evidence for that. ZERO. KG guards people closely, and these incidents were CLEARLY an inadvertent part of that…. until shown to be otherwise. Therefore, it is Gentry who is out of line here, for ASSUMING the worst with no evidence at all.
- The KEY point tho, is that none of the above matters much. Perception is reality. If people BELIEVE that KG’s doing these things on purpose, then all the negative consequences apply. How?
KG’s tech in the Mavs game cost the Cs the chance to pull that game out (winning margin = 4). Every time he pulls one of his stunts, he takes the risk of hurting his team again — through fouls, techs and referee bias. Any one of these could cost the team one or more games. And we haven’t really seen that last one (ref bias) apply yet, so it could get much worse.
- I get that many fans DON’T CARE if KG is a “jerk” or not. But if the foul and tech points start adding up, and refs start hammering the Cs as a result (as many believed they did when Sheed was here) — then all his shenanigans will become major negatives for this team and its quest for the championship. Are you going to care then?
And THAT is the reason for him to stop all this ridiculous behavior right NOW. Because he will never be forgiven if his childishness and lack of self-control costs this team its ring this year. News flash for KG: THIS IS PROBABLY YOUR LAST SHOT. Now grow the hell up.
(As an aside to all this: I am also personally embarrassed by KG’s antics. I’m a fan because I think this team stands for something. I am not a deaf-and-blind, born-in-Boston-so-nothing-else-matters kind of fan. I doubt I’m the only one.)
KG's overall impact is overwhelmingly positive...
A poorly timed tech (or cheap tech) notwithstanding, KG’s impact is overwhelmingly positive. Just because you don’t like his ‘antics’ doesn’t mean he should stop. The very thing that makes KG the great player he is, is also the thing that bites him every once in a while. But with every gift there is a curse, and every great player’s greatness contains some bit of weakness. KG is no different.
KG is signed through 2012. This is not his last shot. As long as KG plays for the Cs, he’ll be on a title-contending team.
Don’t know if the last part of your post was directed at me, or just a general statement—but I’ve been a huge fan of KG and everything he stands for since he was drafted by the Timberwolves. His ‘antics’ as you call them have been a part of the KG package since day 1, the only thing that’s changed is how people perceive them. They love those ‘antics’ when they come from the losing team’s best player—they hate them when they come from the winning team’s best player. True fans of basketball can tell the difference and they don’t let perceptions driven by mere wins and losses change what they feel about one of the greatest players in league history.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 7, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Certainly not directed at you
…at all! Wasn’t directed at anyone… just a personal pov (as an aside to the main point).
Agree that KG’s input is on balance totally positive, no doubt about it. But if the suggestion is that IN ORDER to give as much as he gives he MUST resort to these low-level antics — I can’t agree with that at all. As evidence, I bring most of his career, which has been mostly DEVOID of this kind of behavior. (That’s why I noted in the first sentence that all this is relatively new for him.)
Hey, I hope he’s around in 2012 and ready for another title run. But there are many questions about that, not only regarding KG, but everyone around him. “Probably” was probably too much regarding this being his last shot. Let’s change that to “possibly.”
He's been this way since day one
…but the level of media scrutiny on his ‘antics’ has increased 100 fold since he became a Celtic.
I don’t think he’s resorting to low-level antics. I believe that he wants to win so much that he’ll do anything to get a W, and that includes skirting the line between clean and dirty sometimes. If you look for an edge in everything, then you’ll eventually look in the wrong place—but that’s a part of the cost of being so intense.
But I think you don’t much appreciate what it takes to do what KG does. It’s not an act AT ALL. To get as amped and intense as KG gets, you need to almost enter a trance-like altered consciousness with your awareness focused entirely on the moment. That’s not easy—it’s something that takes Tibetan monks a lifetime to master, and in their case they get to do it sitting down. KG does it in the middle of an intense battlefield. You can’t expect one hundred percent accuracy when you get that fired up—nor can you reasonably expect him to take a little off the top and calm down just a little so he’s more tasteful when it comes to unleashing his intensity. To get KG’s level of intensity, it’s all or nothing—if you start putting limits on it, you pull yourself out of the moment and lose your effectiveness.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 7, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting pov
I don’t remember any of this even as recently as 07-08. Still… it’s an interesting pov….
If it is true that these antics are an integral part of KG’s intensity… hmmm…. I’d have to think more about it, but my first reaction is ‘thanks, but no thanks.’ Not the kind of team I have in mind when I think of the “Celtics”.
Yet
KG’s intensity isn’t to bring light upon himself, it’s to help him help his team win. That’s entirely what I think of when I think of “Celtics”: team. KG’s the perfect Celtic.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 7, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
I understand
And get it. But disagree. I just don’t like ‘the end justifies the means.’
But I don’t think this will continue, anyway. KG’s media aware, and so are the Celtics. I expect he will soon stop all this nonsense and get back to playing basketball. And then our disagreement will be a moot point, never to be settled (hopefully).
'the means'?
What? Did KG hurt someone?
Seriously. Has KG EVER physically actually hurt someone on the court? (Please don’t list the Frye incident because it’s pretty damn obvious that he wasn’t hurt at all.)
Has he permanently scarred their psyche? Stolen their girlfriend? Cheated them at poker?
What? What “means” has he employed that are so truly terrible that it could not be justified?
"Now grow the hell up."
LOL – that sound’s like an appropriate response to people who are so hot and bothered about KG’s perceived ‘behavior’.
“Personally embarassed”, DRJ1? Really?
You say ’none of the above matters much. Perception is reality." So what you are saying is that you are personally embarassed because of outside perceptions – independent of reality.
That’s cool. My 12 year old daughter worries about clothes and fashion too. What her friends say & think is SOOO important.
Can’t say as I’m completely above it. I make a point of trying to dress at least semi-decent and I do shave and comb my hair before going to work. :-D
Btw...
…what about the main point, about costing the team games? Dismiss that too (out of hand)?
cost of doing business
No player is perfect. The important thing is whether the pluses outweigh the minuses and by how much.
Sometimes a T can be worth it if it fires up your team. Whose to say it doesn’t net out in more points overall?
In the end, this is overblown. KG has 7 TFs at this point. That’s tied with 3 other guys for 9th in the NBA. And 7 guys have 6.
All these fellas are a zillion miles behind the leader, SuperMan hisself: Dwight Howard with 18. Amare’, Stephen Jackson and Carmelo all have 12+.
In other words, there are a whole lotta dudes far ahead of KG in this particular dubious category.
TFs get called for a host of reasons other than ‘dirty play’. But they do get called for that and if they correlate with it at all, then it appears there are quite a few much dirtier players than KG.
Ok
- And what about the fouls, and most worrisome (to me), possible referee backlash/bias?
- Wouldn’t it be much better if he maintained his intensity WITHOUT resorting to these things, as he has for most of his career? Or do you subscribe to Salmon’s pov that his recent behavior is inextricably linked to his intensity? (And that it’s been there for most of his career.)
SalmonAndMashedPotatoes is spot on.
None of this is new. Just media reaction to it because of the ‘visual’ provided by the Channing Frye incident.
As I said, overblown.
So how does this comport with your prior statements
… above:
I can’t claim for sure that KG never did this before, but I agree with Nora and Berk that until this Phoenix game, I’d not heard of any issue with it.
Howard’s elbows, though, seem to clock someone every damn game.
If you looked at the context of the above quotes
the “this” in my first sentence that you quoted was specifically in reference to the act of sliding one’s foot under a jump shooter. I do not know of any incidents of KG being accused of THAT particular thing before.
Now, in THIS particular thread line, when I said, “None of this is new.”, my use of the word “this” refers to KG’s tendency to trash talk and act chippy and intense on the court.
The statement about Howard’s elbows, of course, stands alone and true independent of context.
No one is quite like KG, of course
But DWade comes to mind.
Nothing like KG at all.
Not even remotely comparable.
IMHO, of course.
Doesnt get any dirtier than Bowen, right up there with Lambeer imo
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 7, 2011 2:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would just like people to scrutinize everyone the same as every seems to for KG and see how great they look. KG was the same in Minny and everyone loved him. I would not be surprised to find alot of other players not being perfect gentlemen on the court.
Mostly because I don’t expect anything less in most sports. If I want to watch a well behaved player I’ll watch some Golf.
Even well behaved golfers can text porn stars for tail.
Until I hear he is abandoning/abusing his kids or raping some chick or is a slum lord or secretly funding Magneto for a waragainst humanity he will remain good in my book.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 7, 2011 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
True story.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Off-topic
Just asking? Has there been an over/under established on how many games will be missed by the O’Neal tandem?
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
I'd take the over on 80.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Gatsby?
have not seen you in a looong time.
by Marisa Ingemi on Feb 7, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Do I know you?
Ok, now I remember, what was your user name before?
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
Well
if you visited BBV this fall, would have seen the one and only Great Gatsby, LOL!
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
Truth is KG is exactly the kind of athlete we want and deserve
1. Not one off court incident of any type.
2. He is suprememly talented and paid an ungodly amount of $ and yet he cares about as much as any athlete that I can think of.
KG is not one of those cases where you say “I’d hate him if he wasn’t with us”. His focus and intensity separate him from most of the others and while his antics might be piling up I can’t think of a better example of the kind a player a CELTICS team should be structured around.
If KG was on another good team we all woud despise him
He was irrelevant for the most part in Minnesota, so no one really noticed him. I want to make it clear that I love the guy, but his antics are sometimes over the top and he truly is a bully.
Bully isn't the right term
Because a bully only picks on the weak.
KG’s fury is equal opportunity. He unleashes it on those standing in his way.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 7, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
And some that don't
…like when ran across the court to foul Chandler then raise his arms in the expectation of retaliation. It’s legal (at most a foul), but…. I dunno…. it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when he makes it SO OBVIOUS that it’s purposeful.
Hey, gotta run boys (and girl)
It’s been fun. I walk away in one piece. Good thing KG wasn’t in on this! lol
KG plays head games, yes..
Dirty player though? Not so much. Dwight Howard and his “tee hee, did I just concuss you with my elbow? oops!” is worse in my opinion. But I fully admit that I could be (and probably am) biased. :)
Aussie Girl, Celtics Fan.
His intensity and trash talk have been constants over the course of his career, and been decided positives for his teams.
But in general he seems to have become more of a verbal and physical loose cannon in recent history.
The day he goes Nick Van Exel on a ref, then you know his behavior’s become a net detriment. When he was a Timberwolf, I felt he knew well where that line is. Today, I’m not so sure he does (either that, or he’d be daunting to face opposite a poker table).
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
Yeah since people have paid attention to him since he arrived in boston. It is a perceptions that have changed, not KG.
I agree with this.
he definitely had the microscope on him more that his team is competing for a championship every year.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
And that microscopic scrutiny will intensify as the championship year progresses.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Couple of Comments
1. A woman’s prior legal sexual history typically doe not come up in court on a rape case. The evidence is typically to the actual event of rape/sexual assault. This typically is the case for the accused as well.
2. If KG really did stick his feet under the shooter, we all realize he runs the risk of also getting hurt.
3. Has anyone ever seen KG yell at Pierce or Allen?
4. Lately, it does seem like KG is getting tangled up a lot after the whistle is blown ala Rodman. I said it before and I’ll say it again, Rodman was annoying but
I would have loved to have him on the Cs in his prime.
by thereallargejames on Feb 7, 2011 6:17 PM EST reply actions
Great article
That was a great read. I have always loved how KG plays the game but I must admit that
it is getting harder to defend all his on-court antics…Nonetheless, he is still the most important player for the Celtics in their quest for Banner 18.
Love this post!
I’ve had to hear a lot of KG hate recently (ahem, check my user pic), and it’s not always easy to stick by him, because generally speaking, I don’t really like it when people are mean to little kids. However, I still love KG, his intensity, etc. If he played for another team, I would probably hate him, but largely out of jealousy.
"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park
by 808BostonSportsFan on Feb 8, 2011 1:49 AM EST reply actions
I have only one problem with Garnett's behavior:
And it is not his actions on the court. It is the NBA’s complete lack of enforcement. Here’s the disclaimer: Yes, I am a Magic fan. So yes, this will be slightly biased. That being said, KG can elbow, cheap-shot, curse-out, etc anyone he wants. If you get away with it, why stop? However, the fact that the guy until very recently had only 4(!) technical fouls called on him while Dwight was leading with 14 is absurd. And keep in mind that I fully agree with and believe that Dwight is an incessant whiner and yes it is very annoying. I’m just saying, KG will continue to be classless and cheap as long as the NBA permits him to do so. For that, he can’t be blamed. With all that said, its still incredibly frustrating watching KG throw a cheap elbow into Ryan Anderson’s neck while suffering ZERO consequence and then 3 minutes later, Dwight get’s T’d up after Perk fouls him no less than 5 times and he jabs him with the same elbow. I understand that “ref’s can’t call what they don’t see” but that argument should only result in a 2 or 3 tech difference. 4 TF’s vs. 14 TF’s is favoritism, plain and simple. Hopefully someone can dispute this without calling me a troll or a homer because I’m trying to be as diplomatic as possible. And also, I love the blog despite my fan-ness and recent rivalry forcing me to hate your team. I dig the insight and dig the writing. Keep it coming!
I understand your frustration with Garnett. He's figured out how to get
under the Magic’s skin and does it. But, I can’t believe your talking about the Howard who laid out a half dozen celtics last year without getting tossed.
KG has been doing this for years.
All of sudden people are complaining? When KG was in Minnesota playing on a losing team he did his antics then and no side nothing then. Now that KG is on a winning successful team everybody has a problem. Sure his antics needs to stop, but we don’t know what kind of person he is of the court. He’s probably a good person off-court.
I don't get why he's suppossed to stop. Are the other players babies,
can’t they take some trash talking? When I played (various sports) if I got pissed off it just raised my game – and people are saying when elite NBA athletes get pissed they whine and go into a funk?
It doesn’t make any sense, but hey, if it works…
Let’s see, what players would just raise their game, Kobe, Fischer, Pierce, Wade, Deron, Stoudamire, Nash, Nowitzki…. Those who can’t – whine.
a jerk every team would love on there side .
he is a no bigger jerk then laimbeer or rodman was or the biggest jerk of them all charles oakley .
lohaus #54
Congrats on the CBSsportsline pick-up of the article Jeff
I saw the headline and I thought the theme was too familiar to ignore
Justification is justification
THis article and the subsequent thread that followed has just killed me. You guys really do sound like parents who are desperatly trying to justify horrible behavior from their child. But because he is on your team, you just can’t the objectiveness required. The bottom line is this-Garnett is a jerk, and he is not sportsmanlike. Now, if all you care about is winning, then good for you. But I care about HOW my team wins and the example that set for my young children.
Thank goodness SOMEONE has some moral fiber around here.
Enjoy Tim Tebow.
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