Why I am a KG fan...
By popular request, this is being added to the front page from the FanPosts section. Enjoy! - Jeff
...and why I think some Celtics fans are missing what they are witnessing. First off, I'll tell you from jump that this is going to be long. And personal. And perhaps even insulting to some who may read this. That's not my intent, but it is what it is. You can only say "I'm right and you're wrong" so politely, and when it comes to Kevin Garnett I'm right. And if his being a "jerk", as our blog chief eloquently but incorrectly deemed him yesterday, is in any way part of KG's "story" to you...you're wrong.
My impression from around Celtic nation is that many spent years hearing about Garnett in Minnesota, good and bad, without really following him. They may have seen him a few times a year, enough to get an impression but not enough to truly lock in. Most knew he had once been the MVP of the league, but that he’d only been out of the first round of the playoffs once in his Minnesota career. That at one point he was often compared to Tim Duncan, but that he hadn’t even made the playoffs in his last few years before the trade. People knew he was supposed to be an exciting player, a bit over the top and that he maybe could help the Celtics win more…but his price tag was the promising Al Jefferson, and Garnett was already in his 30s so he’d better do something quickly to prove he was worth it.
And that’s cool.
When Garnett got here, he did help the Celtics win. Celtics nation recognizes that he was an important part of bringing #17 to Boston. That his defense is elite and his offense is pretty good too…though too jump-shot based. That he is fiery and “intense” on the court…though some of his antics can be a bit past the line. On the whole, the general sentiment that I get on the various basketball boards I peruse is that Celtic nation appreciates Garnett, thinks he’s important, and that the good generally outweighs the bad so even though he’s a jerk, he’s “our Jerk”. He’s like our Laimbeer, our Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, our goon (though of course not in the REAL sense, because we all know he wouldn’t get away with his antics in the real-man 80s) but he’s effective as long as he toes the line. And he can help us to #18 so it’s a good thing he wears Green (or else we wouldn’t like him very much). There’s only one problem with this general mindset…
It utterly, completely and wildly misses the point about Kevin Garnett.
I can understand that mindset, in all of its variations from the adamant “Garnett is really a 2nd option/overrated/fake intense but I’m glad he’s on our team” posters that I read regularly on here up to the knowledgeable, well-written “Garnett is a Hall-of-Fame player, overjoyed he’s here but he’s not really THAT special because of the rich Celtics history and I’m able to cheer for him while recognizing his short-comings” type posts like Jeff’s piece from yesterday. Based upon just what you’ve seen of Garnett in Boston and the type of coverage that he currently receives, that mindset is supportable.
But here’s the thing. If Kevin Garnett had been drafted to the Celtics in 1995 and had been here every since, he would be held among Celtics fans to an esteem that would make even LA’s Kobe-love seem paltry. And not just because of how good he was, though of course that would help. I don’t know Garnett personally, but I’ve followed his professional career with whatever personal life bleeds over for the past 11 years as in-depth as any sports fan could. And I can honestly say that…the best way to put it succinctly in a way to be understood here is that Garnett is the basketball player that gives me the hope that the “Celtics way” of playing can survive in the post-Jordan era. Jordan almost killed it, and now Kobe and LeBron are trying with all of their might to stamp out the embers. But Garnett, along with Tim Duncan, have been the two players keeping good, team-first basketball at the forefront in this generation.
I’m not a good enough writer to fully recreate the experience of following Garnett for almost a decade before he put on Green, and even if I were no one would have the patience to read how many words such an undertaking would require. But let me at least tell you why he’s my favorite player.
I’m a life-long NBA fan without a home team, so generally I find a player that I like and follow their team. I went to college in the mid ‘90s, and with the busy college life (pre internet explosion and pre-DirecTV boom) I wasn’t able to follow the NBA that closely for a few years. Plus, I hadn’t had a true favorite player since Ron Harper got traded from the Cavs (where I could listen to them play on the radio) to the Clippers (who I couldn’t watch, ever) in 1990, so outside of generally following the league there wasn’t much to keep me fully focused on the NBA.
Then, in 1999, a funny thing happened. I was in the library waiting for a friend, and I messed around and signed up for a fantasy GM basketball league where you got a certain amount of money and could spend it daily on whatever player you wanted. I had never played fantasy sports before, and I got HOOKED. I got so hooked that I went out and got DirecTV so I could follow the key players. And the most important player on my team was this young guy named Kevin Garnett, who seemed to fill it up EVERY night.
I had been familiar with Garnett for years. He had finished high school the same year that I did, and I remember the buzz when he jumped straight to the pros. Plus, my first year at Georgia Tech was also Stephon Marbury's only year there and he electrified the campus, so when he went to the pros I followed him to the Wolves and his exciting 2-piece combo with Garnett. I remember when Garnett's contract was blamed for the lockout, and I had even gravitated to Garnett's side of the "Duncan or Garnett?" debate that was starting to get popular at the time. So I knew who Garnett was. But it wasn't until '99 that I really started watching KG play with any regularity.
And as soon as I started paying attention, I became a fan. For one thing, his game was exciting. A 7-footer that could handle the ball like a wing, played defense like a mad man, would dunk on anyone and could even step back for the three? That was enough to make my best friend, who was playing D-1 ball at the time, declare that Garnett was the best player in the NBA. But that wasn't why I became a fan.
Then, there was the infectious joy and enthusiasm that Garnett played with. They called him "The Kid" in those days, and that was how he played...like a big kid that had just eaten a bag of sugar with a spoon. He was bouncing off the walls, defending point guards on the perimeter then sprinting down to block the center’s shot, then grabbing the rebound and turning right around and bringing it up the court. He was getting fired up on defense, getting on his knees (yes, even then), smacking the floor to show he was ready. He played for a team called the Wolves, and he would howl in games. He'd make a big play and flash a huge grin, or jump on the scorers table, or pound his chest and scream. He took a small expansion team with no history and made them FUN. But that wasn't why I became a fan, either.
Then, there was the way he played the game. In a basketball world saturated with Michael Jordan and Jordan wannabees, it was refreshing to see a player that played more like the Magic and Bird that I remembered from my childhood. Garnett was the most unselfish star player I had seen in years, maybe ever. He always made the extra pass that set up the good shot for his teammates. He stood up for and defended his smaller teammates when they got knocked down. He would make it a point to high-five anyone who did anything remotely well on his team, and he outright made the rest of his teammates get into the habit of dapping up the free throw shooter after the first shot. He was a throw-back player, who played "the right way" despite his electric talent and had an obvious passion for the game to boot. But that STILL wasn't what made me a fan.
No, what made me Kevin Garnett fan was that he played absolutely every minute of every game like his team was down 1 point in game 7 of the NBA Finals and he had to will them to victory.
It. Was. Amazing.
In recent years it has become an overused expression to call Garnett "intense", but that moniker hadn't been placed on him at the time. Didn't matter. You didn't need anyone to tell you that Garnett was intense...all you had to do was watch a single Wolves game. It didn't matter what time of year it was, who the game was against, whether the Wolves were much better or much worse than their opponent...it didn't matter. Garnett went all out, EVERY game.
THAT was what first made me become a Kevin Garnett fan.
When I was a kid my mom would watch all of my basketball games, and she always used to tell me that she didn't care if my team won or lost. She didn't care how many points I had. She didn't care whether I was the star, or if I barely got into the game. ALL she cared about was that if I DID get in the game, I better hustle and scratch and strain and just leave everything I had out there. If I did that, she was happy. No matter what else the outcome. When I watched Garnett play I always thought of my mom. I knew she’d be proud of his game.
In short, KG played like I would have hoped that I would have played if I had been 7-feet tall.
And because I became a Garnett fan in '99 I was there to see the lion share of the obstacles that he had to overcome in his professional life. I remember when Wolves' owner Glen Taylor signed the illegal Joe Smith contract from what he thought may have been his own death bed, and when he got caught David Stern took away 5 1st round draft picks. I remember learning about the new basketball CBA after the lockout and realizing that since they didn't grandfather in previously signed contracts, Garnett's huge deal meant the Wolves also couldn't sign great free agents. I remember how shell-shocked the Wolves organization and fans still were in the aftermath of Stephon Marbury forcing his way out of town. How the result of these three things was that there was no real way for the Wolves to bring in any kind of legitimate talent to play with Garnett, which meant that while Duncan got to play with David Robinson and Shaq got to play with Kobe, Garnett was going to have to compete with them with Wally Szczerbiak as his best teammate.
And I remember when the perception of the basketball world started turning against him.
Every year Garnett would drag a not-so-talented team to the playoffs, only to lose to much, MUCH better teams in the postseason. From 1997 - 2004 the Wolves lost in the postseason to SIX different teams that had at least TWO MVPs (past, present or future) that were named All Stars in that particular year. During those 8 years, Garnett never even had an All NBA teammate when his team was put out...in fact, he only ever had 2 teammates even make an All Star team next to him when his team was eliminated. Now, go back and reconsider...SIX teams with TWO MVPs...that rarely ever happens in NBA history even once, let alone 6 years out of 8 (and the other 2 years KG's Wolves lost to the 61-win Sonics and the 59-win Trail Blazers that were an epic Game 7 choke against Shaq/Kobe away from the title). In short, Garnett's Wolves were MASSIVELY outgunned in literally every single playoff series that they ever lost, on a level never before matched in NBA history.
But it didn't matter.
All that mattered was that Garnett couldn't get his team past the first round. And every year he couldn't, more people turned against him. Garnett got crucified for passing on a contested double-teamed jump shot to spoon-feed a teammate for a bunny at the end of a Spurs playoff game...but the teammate missed the chippy, and despite the fact that trying to shoot through a Duncan/Robinson double is an extremely low percentage shot the buzz began that maybe Garnett was a choker in crunchtime. When KG had 2 triple-doubles in 4 games against those loaded Blazers in 2000 he was criticized again for passing too much, that his 9 assists per game didn't make up for him not scoring in the 20s. Garnett's childhood hero Magic Johnson weighed in against him, saying that he was playing too unselfishly and that he had to start shooting more.
And as more and more folks questioned whether KG was really a winner, he continued to face adversity. One of Garnett's best friends and childhood idols, teammate Malik Sealy, died in a car accident with a drunk driver WHILE HE WAS LEAVING GARNETT'S HOUSE after KG's birthday party. Arguably his best teammate, Terrell Brandon, had his career cut short by knee injuries in the midst of what had been Garnett's and the Wolves' best season to date. That season ended at the hands of a Mavs sweep, again courtesy of a team with 2 MVPs...Nowitzki and Nash.
In 2002-03 Garnett made the leap. Over the next few years he became the best player in the NBA, filling the box score in ways that no power forward ever has. He broke the +/- scale, posting impact numbers that no player in this generation has touched (or in many cases even come close to) in the decade since they’ve been keeping the stats. He put up huge performances on the big stage but ultimately bad luck, poorly timed injuries and front office incompetence ended his run in Minnesota. I won’t clutter this already long post with a detailed account of his last few years in Minnesota, but it was a comedy of errors of epic proportions. I often say that Garnett’s years in Minnesota were like a giant science experiment…what would happen if you took the best player in the world and put him on the worst team in the league and made sure it stayed that way no matter what the player did. Well, after following Garnett’s career we have an answer to that question.
The 2007-08 season was like a basketball dream for me. I personally had never had the team that I pull for win a title in the NBA or the NFL, my 2 favorite sports, so the whole ride was crazy. The team was so likeable. They were team-first. Defense-first. Scrappy. Had to go through a gauntlet of great players and teams in the playoffs, about as hard a path as could be devised that year. Mike Gorman once said that a team takes on the personality and look of it’s best player, and the 07-08 Celtics looked from top-to-bottom like Kevin Garnett. It was finally the payoff on what had been such a hard-luck run. My friends called me when the Celtics won and said they almost cried for me. Garnett’s whole “Anything is Possibbbbbbbbbbbbble!!!” speech made sense to me. It was finally the proof of what Garnett could do on a team with reasonable talent, even slightly past his prime. It was finally to be his coronation into the NBA pantheon that had already welcomed Shaq and Duncan and was trying its best to force Kobe through the doors.
Instead…the aftermath was just…“nice”. The casual NBA fan that hadn’t followed Garnett in-depth in Minnesota or Boston…the Timberwolves fan that had bled with KG for a decade but felt mildly jilted to see him succeed elsewhere…the Celtics fan that was overjoyed but hadn’t bled/sweated/cried with KG but HAD lived and died with Pierce for a decade…none were really willing to fully credit KG with that pantheon-pass, despite what “I” knew to be true.
And then, the last few years that maybe could have gone back and cemented Garnett’s legacy haven’t played out like ’08. KG got injured in ’09…no title. KG came back but was 80% of himself in 2010…really close, but no title. And most importantly…Garnett started angering the most dangerous foe of all: the internet fan base.
When KG clapped in Jose Calderon’s face and yelled in 2009, an innocuous act of such minor significance that it’s like had been universally ignored forever, he couldn’t have known he was declaring war with perhaps the largest internet fan-base in the NBA…the Raptors faithful. And this happened right after the Celtics had defeated the popular Lakers in the Finals, angering another huge fan base. And not long after that KG got on his knees on defense against Jerryd Bayless (the EXACT same thing he’d done to zero fan fair the previous year against power forward David West), causing another huge e-following in Portland to scream bloody murder.
Put those three rabid fan-bases with their internet presence together, combine with a somewhat tepid Garnett defense by his still relatively new Celtics family, and suddenly the e-stories go into the echo chamber and are heard around the web. And Henry Abbott is bringing the blog issues to ESPN. And commentators are weighing in on it, interviewers are asking other players about it, Garnett’s every on-court action is put under the microscope, played in slow-motion, put on you-tube. Tired, useless non-stories and non-truths are repeated ad nauseum.
And suddenly even Celtics fans who were slowly learning to embrace the post-prime Garnett that played on their team had to take notice and address it. Some in Celtic Nation have hunkered down in the “defend our player” stance, but some are frankly alienated by Garnett and speak strongly against him. And as I said earlier, even the reasonable, knowledgeable Celtic fan has started including “antics” and “jerk” in their mental association with Garnett and his legacy. And it’s a shame.
Kevin Garnett is my favorite player. In my basketball life I have lived and died with him for more than a decade. I lived through all of the ups and downs…saw him grow into his basketball manhood…watched him display brilliance as the best in the world… saw his boundless joy and enthusiasm for the game tempered through pain and on-court hardship but never fully quenched…felt the exultation of finally winning the ring…saw him embrace the Celtics (both franchise and teammates) as his own and put them firmly on his side in his “us vs them” mindset…and recognize that at this point in his career he is willing to do whatever it takes to bring Boston another title. Having been along for that whole ride, I’m overjoyed that I have been able to witness one of the most remarkable careers in NBA history. But I am a bit saddened that, even among his adopted family in Celtic Nation, there are still some…perhaps even many… that just don’t really, fully realize what they’ve had for the past four years. Enjoy him while you can, folks. Because once he’s gone, like Larry and Bill before him, there’ll never be another Kevin Garnett walking through those doors.
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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Jeff, you’re a man of integrity. You need to put this on the main page. Drza44’s post is a public service announcement to all Celtic fans.
by SalmonAndMashedPotatoes on Feb 8, 2011 3:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is one of the best things i have ever read about anyone. I’de give you a hug right now if i could.
Well done, and a million kudos.
KG needs to read this!
by JerseyKid. on Feb 8, 2011 3:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
At last- someone who really does know and appreciates Kevin Garnett.
drza44, you’ve written an incredible piece, and this definitely should be right at the head of Celtics Blog.
You’ve managed to put the humanity of K. Garnett front and center, and remind all of us just why it is that we appreciate and love him so much.
Lately, it seems that a lot of people want to turn him into a caricature, and if Garnett is anything, he is certainly not that.
A tip of the hat for a job extremely well done.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
by lygafe on Feb 8, 2011 3:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Great article
Lygafe, well said. You’ve phrased it well for me.
drza44, you’ve written a wonderful article that helped me understand KG’s background more.What made it most illuminating for me is that it’s from a long-standing fan’s perspective. Personally, I think KG is an absolutely terrific player and definitely the heart and possibly the soul of this team. It’s been a long journey and hardly an easy one for him. Thanks for such a thoughtful article. I just hope others will read this (escpecially Celtics fans) and will get an appreciation of what a treasure we have in KG. I also hope he gets to read this and know we who appreciate and love him are out here!
Excellent article...
….deserves to be on the main page. Thumbs up and rec’d
I can appreciate what the writer has been through
… with KG. I myself fell in love with the guy when I saw that heart-breaking interview with John Thompson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef-f7EeDpYI ) — still the single most moving experience I’ve ever seen involving a sports figure.
And I too was not happy to see the big “He’s Our Jerk” headline yesterday. Unfortunately, it seems it got picked up by some media venues, and now the world apparently thinks KG’s own fans think of him as a “jerk.” That’s just NOT TRUE!… for most of us.
But neither is it true that KG is perfect. His long history and unique persona does NOT give him the right — neither actual nor moral — to step over the line as often as he has in recent weeks. Most troubling is that he has hurt his team several times (vs. Mavs, Suns, & Cats, all losses). So it’s patently clear to me that he needs to control himself a little better, for the sake of his team.
But that is NOT “jerkhood”! That’s a need for improvement…. and who among us doesn’t have that same need? If you raised your hand, then I guess you can throw the first stone.
But I know you’re wrong.
As for those who claim that his recent transgressions are necessary parts of KG’s intensity — I think that’s a major insult to the man. What you’re really saying is that KG CAN’T control himself enough to follow the rules. Really? Is he so weak, so immature, that he CANNOT control himself?? No way. That’s gotta be wrong.
Finally, regarding KG saving basketball from the likes of Kobe and Lebron…. please, I don’t see the need to include James in that sentence. Lebron is constantly looking for the pass, and seems ALL ABOUT team play now… he learned his lessons well in Cleveland. It’s not fair to place him on the dark side, with Kobe. But Kobe? Sure… he’s the Vader.
by DRJ1 on Feb 8, 2011 5:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
There's more to the "Celtic Way" than looking for the pass...
LeBron is a good passer, and an excellent player. The best currently in the game, IMO. But Jordan was also an excellent player that averaged over 8 assists in a season, so that wasn’t what I was talking about when I said that his legacy in some ways was hurting the league.
With Jordan and the Bulls, the story was always about Jordan. With LeBron, the story is always about LeBron. With Garnett, the story tends to be about his team. When Cassell and Sprewell came to Minnesota, he wouldn’t take a cover picture without them (he did the same thing here with Ray and Paul). When he won both the MVP in ’04 and the DPoY in ’08, he seemed so uncomfortable with the individual award that it affected his play in both games where he received it. When Pierce tries to give KG props in press conferences, KG always tries to hush him and deflect the attention back to the Captain.
It’s not an accident that Ubuntu became the team motto in 2007-08, and that it stuck so strongly. It just put a title and name to the way the attitude that Garnett has always brought to his teams.
Kobe is not Ubuntu.
Neither is LeBron.
by drza44 on Feb 8, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I understand
But surely Lebron’s decision to move to Miami, where DWade has reigned for years, must tend to soften his me-first-and-only image in your view….? I would agree that your view was true in Cleveland. But people do change. They can improve. Doesn’t it seem to you that LBJ is improving, changing now?
Lebron is not at the KG level, yet… but I think there is Ubuntu growing between him and DWade, right before our eyes. Would you agree with that possibility?
I read this, and it was very well written
I’m glad you include Jordan in the group with Kobe and Lebron, because at least you’re consistent. Those guys have a certain need to be the Man, and they don’t necessarily go completely out of their way to shine light on their teammates like KG does (although I was glad to hear Kobe say after Game 7 – sorry guys – that the Lakers couldn’t have won without “The Spaniard” and also, MJ saying he would keep the Finals MVP trophy but give Pippen the car because of Scottie Pippen’s contributions).
KG is the ultimate team player (and I fully believe he is the MVP of the Celtics because of his defense and the even though he may not be the offensive initiator, he does not do things to harm or slow down the offense – turnovers, forced shots, holding onto the ball). His 100% effort is also admirable. I also think his relationship with his teammates is admirable.
That being said, DRJ1 has a very good point that KG should be able to control himself. And he really doesn’t need to do some of the questionable things he does to be the great player he is. You can have an edge without spilling over into unsportsman-like behavior towards your opponents.
But from your writing, I feel that you may believe that you have to take the good with the bad. And that makes us more similar fans than not, even though we root for rival teams. Because for those who don’t understand why one would root for Kobe – you take the good with the bad as well, and the good in our eyes outweighs the bad by a country mile.
But it still stands, KG doesn’t need to do a lot of that stuff, and that’s not a knock on the guy’s play at all. It’s tolerated because he’s that good. It’s like you are turning a blind eye because of his abilities and his hustle. It’s okay to say “hey I don’t like that he did that” while still supporting him overall. Hey, I don’t like that Kobe takes it easy on defense half the time, I don’t like that he takes some, ok a lot of, contested looks, or seems to blame his teammates for things that appear to be his fault, but I’d still take him over any other player. Some people think it’s disloyal even to point out the on-the-court flaws of your favorite player, I say it’s just being rational.
I don’t expect you to stop rooting for your favorite player, but it’d be nice to see that you see his flaws for what they are (on-the-court, before anyone thinks to bring up off-the-court examples).
Lastly, I do think fans across the NBA realize they have witnessed a once-in-a-lifetime player. We can realize that not and still not like some of the other actions we’ve witnessed. They’re two separate things. To condemn KG’s issues with sportsmanship is not to lessen his stature as a force in basketball, and it definitely does not condemn him as a man, which he has shown himself to be through his actions off the court, and his relationships with his teammates.
Thank you for your time.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
I don't necessarily believe you have to take the good with the bad...
…I believe that the “bad” is so grossly, ridiculously overstated as to be almost comical. That the phrase “mountain out of a molehill” was created to describe this situation.
Nobody says (now, or when he played): “You know, that Bird guy is a Hall of Famer… but his incessant need to talk trash on the court and his over-competitive fighting spirit that led him to get in bar fights that affected even a title run have to be factored in.”
No one says (now, or when he played): “You know, Jordan might be the best ever…but he did punch a teammate in practice and was so overbearing that hardly anyone, friend or foe, liked playing with him. And he was a cut throat player to boot. But you have to take the good with the bad.”
The “antics” that have become such a story for Garnett over the last 2 years are a non-story IMO. And having them added as a necessary caveat every time Garnett is mentioned, now even among CELTIC fans, is absurd to me.
Actually I do say that stuff about Jordan :)
And Bird, well, I think he was defending his friend off the court. As for choking Dr. J… you’re right. Then again, that’s really only one unsportsmanlike example against Bird.
KG has the misfortune of playing in the 24-hour media era. I don’t think they are non-stories, it’s more like those things in the past would have been stories today, and those past players are lucky they don’t play in today’s environment, like Kobe and KG do. IF they did, they would talk about it today, they wouldn’t ignore it. Jordan’s horrible demeanor is something that I talk about all the time in my world. And he’s still the best player since Dr. J (I don’t think it’s fair for me to rank Jordan ahead of other players I did not see play live, and I didn’t see Dr. J in his prime).
The stories are two separate ones – I don’t think it overrides his play in the least, and I don’t think I would give it more weight than the basketball story. But it’s still there, and it’s something (I realize this is relative, as you have stated you don’t think they are much).
But as long as he wins, I think KG will be fine.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
by Gil Meriken on Feb 8, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't give a damn about his "sportsmanship"
…even though I recognize he has issues there. And drza44 — you are missing the MOST IMPORTANT POINT OF ALL, which is that KG’s antics HAVE ALREADY cost his team the chance to win at least 3 games, and if they continue, things could get much worse, especially if the refs turn against us.
When KG’s issues HURT HIS TEAM — it’s time to take blinders off, time to STOP the ridiculous hero worship, and call it like it is. He HAS been out of control, and IT IS NOT necessary for him to be that in order for him to “be who he is.”
And tell you the truth, I’m pretty sick of all the hero worship anyway. KG is no hero. He’s a borderline nutcase with freakish physical attributes, who happens to be good at one game. A ball player who is passionate about playing ball. And that’s all. This brings TEARS to your eyes? Really!? Geezzuss
KG is not particularly educated (uh, high school), hasn’t taught anyone, hasn’t cured anyone, hasn’t accomplished anything else in his life except basketball and money. So let’s just dial it back a little, shall we? KG is what he is… a great ball player. NOT a hero. Not even a role model. (Unless you want your kids dropping out or avoiding college altogether and then growing up to hit opposing players in the genitals, among other antics.)
by DRJ1 on Feb 9, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
HIS ANTICS?
I don’t understand why you are posting this smut on a CELTICS FAN blog. Stop hating and move on. Your last paragraph is completely off base and I’d ask you to do your homework before you post wrong information. Moreover, you should do a little research on KG himself and you’ll see he is infact a hero. good day to you sir
ps. I’m speaking for everyone who continues to read your nonsense about the team.
bold type
please stop shouting. It doesn’t make your points any more accurate than if you used all caps.
You might take your own advice to ‘dial it back a little’ with the negative exaggerations.
Wow Dr.J1
You’re being clearly a “self proclaimed” Garnett expert should enable you to realize that the only reason he declared for the draft out of high school was because his SAT scores were too low, and he didn’t find out that he passed them on his LAST attempt until AFTER he had the press interview where he declared for the draft.
It’s alright to miss a few games here and there; the point of being TRUE celtics fan is that we show support for those important to the team when they need it most. Garnett has given his heart and soul to this franchise, and wants nothing more than to make us fans proud to say “I like the Celtics.” Maybe he isn’t curing diseases and maybe he isn’t training blind hedgehogs how to do cartwheels, but you know what? He is a role model to anyone who believes that they can accomplish great feats through hard work. Kg wasn’t just HANDED basketball talents. He had to work for those, the same way an english teacher has to study his material or a heart surgeon has to train himself mentally before going into surgery to save a life. If you play work and dedicate yourself to doing that, then success will come.
Perhaps you had some substance in your assertios, but I feel that several of your claims are borderline ignorant. KG is in some ways, symbolic of many things that we truly love about sports as a culture, whether you acknowledge that or not.
If nothing is worth dying for, then nothing is worth living for.
~Chuck Coleson
When it comes to choosing heroes
…I think it’s fair to say ‘to each his own.’ I want my kids to emulate a Ray Allen, not KG. You may feel differently. It’s all good.
But you (and thenation, below us) are dead wrong if you think that I ‘hate’ KG. Absolutely untrue. I was greatly moved by his Thompson interview, and I think he’s (obviously) a great player, key to this team, etc. I just think he had allowed himself to cross the line sometimes, and that is bad for the team. And yeah, it’s true that I don’t think of him as a ‘hero’. None of that equates with ‘hate’, or even dislike.
I believe you when you say you don't hate KG
I see you posting here all the time; to even threaten the assertion that you do not bleed green would be preposterous. My point is this: There are certain aspects involved with sports (particularly basketball I feel) that are discernably applicable to daily life all around the world. Part of who I am is taking life on the chin and remembering that you have to be there for the people around you; family, friends and loved ones. In the dreary-ness and crucibles of life, it can be easy to forget that, and I strongly feel that sports can help us remember.
"The celtics were a way of life. A group of people so diverse you cannot imagine; working together, day in and day out for a common goal. What was necessary was ten players, two baskets, thirteen thousand people and one basketball. We would decide what was done with that one basketball." ~ Bill Russell
Especially the Celtics' way of playing the game
… yeah, it does bleed over to real life, the way you said. And I think the most irksome thing for me about KG’s recent behavior — something I have not mentioned before, because it’s kinda personal and I didn’t think anybody would care to hear it — is that it smacks to me of… rampant egotism…. where he sometimes allows himself to lose control of his emotions, even though HE KNOWS very well that it will hurt his team. That runs against everything this team is about. (Or what I like to think it’s about.) Which is why I am so… befuddled… when other people start calling him ‘hero’, and completely ignore these multiple lapses.
Calling someone like Ray Allen a ‘hero’ and role model for kids makes a lot more sense to me.
Well
It’s hard to know if this change in his behavior is permanent or a phase that he is going through. I have always loved KG and the way he plays; hell, even the way he talks trash until recently. As of late however, I look at KG and think “Man, is that something Bill Russell would have done during his career? How about Larry Bird?”
The answer is usually no, so I do agree with you on that, but I really want to point out that it’s hard NOT to be defensive when you are ONE on this fanbase and TWO a passionate celtics fan (although they can be synonymous). It seems hard to not feel defensive about Garnett these days, as he is blatantly being attacked from all angles, hence, many feel that support should be given regardless of the circumstances. Although I do not entirely share their sentiments, I can understand them. My deepest hopes and prayers however, go to Garnett in his time of trouble; that he may be able to play the game with greater dignity (if greater class is too much to ask for lol). Garnett will (in certain ways) always be a role model to me, but I agree, it’s just too much. Again, just make sure you acknowledge both sides of the argument before creating a contention. More people will feel inclined to agree with you if you are explicate with your arguments. (:
"The celtics were a way of life. A group of people so diverse you cannot imagine; working together, day in and day out for a common goal. What was necessary was ten players, two baskets, thirteen thousand people and one basketball. We would decide what was done with that one basketball." ~ Bill Russell
Got it, thanks
I’ll tell you something… now that it’s quiet, & dead of night in Btown… I don’t post online seeking agreement. I do it for 3 reasons: 1) because it’s fun, and the most fun for me are the battles… though not always, just when the arguments are strong and well-founded on all sides, 2) to learn… and I learn most when arguments (or strong discussions) rage, backed by solid reasoning, and 3) to get the word out about something I think is important.
Number 3 is big for me. This business with KG is a good example. I think Doc, when he says he sees “nothing wrong” with what KG did, is either obfuscating, or plain wrong/mistaken. Just in case he’s mistaken, I WANT there to be arguments here and everywhere, so that he will (hopefully) hear about it, and RETHINK his conclusion. You see, I believe KG has hurt the team several times already this season — obvious to me, since techs and fouls clearly hurt, always — and could hurt it much worse in the future (esp if the refs turn against us because of him). If Doc seriously doesn’t think there’s any problem there, well, it could CONTINUE, and even worsen. And that would jeopardize our shot at the ring. And damn, I am NOT gonna keep quiet about that!
Yeah… so you see, for me anyway, fostering agreement is not a primary goal.
Peace.
I'm certainly not asking you too! (:
Although, I think that honestly you may find it a tad easier to be able to be understood. You shouldn’t see it as “me being understood,” you should see it as “others learning from you.” If you can consistently present both sides of an argument, then your discourse will sound much more profound and logical. Eventually, your statements will sound more like, well, semi-objective statements, and less like opinions. :P
Your goal should be to educate others, and make them agree with you. If not, then what’s the point in arguing at all? To defeat and humiliate your opponent? :P Don’t think so.
"The celtics were a way of life. A group of people so diverse you cannot imagine; working together, day in and day out for a common goal. What was necessary was ten players, two baskets, thirteen thousand people and one basketball. We would decide what was done with that one basketball." ~ Bill Russell
Mostly I agree with what you say here, Eucharist except
1) I don’t see much of a ‘change’ in KGs behavior. I see more of a distorted magnifying glass being applied to it.
2) I don’t feel defensive over it – I don’t really see much to defend. Like Doc, I am perfectly fine with the way KG has been playing and I hope he continues.
That latter point is largely why I don’t feel compelled to get into long point-by-point counter arguments over this. To me, its so painfully obvious that his ‘behavior’ is a non-issue. I accept that others don’t see it that way. I don’t intend to waste energy trying to change their minds. I admit I do get irritated when some insist on preaching morality sermons trying to change others’. That’s probably not fair or patient on my part.
On whether KG’s behavior has ‘cost us games’: This is overly simplistic. Yes the technical foul free throws are a negative. But so is any bad turnover or ill-advised shot or bad pass or bad defensive play that leads to points for the other team. In those same games where KGs gave up points via Ts, one also has to ask what would the score be if he were not in that game and replaced by someone else? Would ‘not having incurred the Ts’ have mattered?
I just don't understand that
Shouldn’t the question “one must also has to ask” be: What would the score be if KG did not cross the line, didn’t generate those fouls and techs, and instead controlled his emotions?
The logic here is so clear… I just do not understand what you are saying. No one has ever said KG should not play! So what are you saying, after all?
(Btw, I believe this marks the very first time anyone has directly addressed the key issues I’ve been pointing to…. that KG has cost us games, could do more harm, and therefore should stop misbehaving.)
"should stop misbehaving"
and players should also “stop missing shots” and “stop being late on switches” and “stop turning the ball over”.
All would be good things to stop doing.
All are mistakes that players make because they are human. KG is human and in his intensity makes the occasional human mistake of ticking someone off. His intensity is more often good than bad.
You might as well ask Ray to stop taking the shots that he misses and only take the shots that he makes.
Ok, fair enough
So the question comes down to: Can KG avoid the techs and fouls, without taking anything away from the rest of his game? I think KG is capable of that. More than capable. I just cannot believe that he is so unable to control himself, that he MUST commit these techs and fouls. And since I think he is able to control himself, I believe he should.
If you feel he truly cannot do that (control himself) without hurting the rest of his game, then that’s the final point of disagreement. And the case can be closed.
If not, well… I don’t know what else might be at play here, what else you might contend.
(Believe me, I am very happy to finally get somebody to respond reasonably to this one issue.)
Similar to mmmmm...
…I, too, think this is so overblown as to not be worthy of point-by-point rebuttal. That’s part of why I haven’t responded to your constant overtures about it hurting the team.
That said, based on your last few messages, I felt I should point out that Garnett CAN tone it down. Doc asked him to his first year in Boston, and KG did it. In Doc’s words, “it killed him.” There’s a great article where Doc tells a long story about it, but I can’t find it, so here is Thibs’ description of the incident:
"I recall the first year I was here, when we first got Kevin, Doc (Rivers) asked him to tone it down and it was awful in the first half," Thibodeau said. "We went in at halftime and Doc told him, ‘Hey, forget it.’ Just go back to being who you are, and he was great in the second half. So he never asked him to change after that. That’s who Kevin is. He’s been that way for a long time."
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20101203/sports/712049807/#ixzz1Db6ooQpv
I just think KG is better than that
“Toning down” can mean many things. Doc in that prior incident meant toning down his whole game. Here I’m just saying that I (firmly) believe that he CAN play the game without generating unnecessary techs and flagrants, without running after guys in order to foul them and immediately raise his arms (because hey, the camera sees everything, and so do the refs after the game), and without pushing refs away or hitting guys in the nether regions, etc., etc.
And I have to tell you that if you believe he CANNOT control all that without losing his game, then you think far, far less of him than I do.
In any event, I’m glad that finally, we have addressed the real issues in this whole brouhaha… which comes down in the end to winning games. (It was never about judging KG personally… not that I could see anyway.)
We're not saying the same thing...
As has been pointed out before in this thread, KG is nowhere near leading the league in techs or flagrants…he normally doesn’t even lead this team. Yes, those things are things to be avoided…the point is, he generally does avoid them well enough that it isn’t an issue. Your stance thus far seems to be that he should “tone it down” so as to avoid generating more in the future. Well, Doc asked him to do that before, he did, and it wasn’t good for his game overall.
I think mmmmm’s point was a good one. You don’t just turn your attitude/energy level on/off at a pin drop…that’s the reason why when the team as a whole is flat, they can’t always just turn it on. The reverse can be true as well…KG can try not to put his mindset into hyper, and control himself fully, with attendant consequences…or he can continue to do what he’s done his whole career, continue to gear himself up to see the opponent as the enemy, and continue to play with the rage and fire that he does.
I don’t think it’s a case of whether he can control it or not. He can. It’s a case of whether he needs to try to change his game or not to suit what YOU consider to be a problem. I don’t think he needs to. And from what they say, his teammates and coaches tend to agree. I think this is more of a “you” issue than a KG issue at this point, so I don’t see any “think less of him” in my stance at all.
We're getting pretty close to resolution
I don’t think you can say that KG’s avoidable techs and fouls are just “YOUR issue,” (meaning mine). I think you’ve already agreed to the (obvious) conclusion that these things ARE best avoided. So let’s agree that EVERYONE would LIKE to avoid them, which means that everyone would rather KG not commit them. You just believe he shouldn’t bother with it (I think).
Seems like it’s coming down to whether or not KG’s “over-the-top” stuff — which means specifically and only the things that either generate opponent points, or tick off the refs (usually the same things) — can or cannot be stopped by KG, without ruining the rest of his game. I think they can. I think he HAS done just that, for most of his career! It’s only lately — and perhaps a few times over the years, here and there — that these things have come up, and I’m pretty sure this is the first time they’ve happened in such a sequence of multiple events. You don’t completely agree with all that.
Bottom line: no one thinks he’s a bad guy. (You may think more highly of him personally than I do, but we both respect the guy and his talents.) I think he absolutely can and must tone down his recent spate of transgressions. You, I think, believe he shouldn’t try.
Ok. Fair enough. If you agree with “fair enough,” we’ll close this discussion down. And get ready to beat LA. :)
again, you are missing the point
Its only a problem if he truly were getting tagged for Ts & flagrants at a high rate. He isn’t. So its not a problem.
I do agree with closing this down. I’m done with this silliness.
Sorry, you are missing the point, m
“Rate” has nothing to do with it. Will you say “but the rate was not high” when his last tech or flagrant of the year costs us the championship? Point is: there are no unnecessary opponent points that are “ok”.
But it IS ok if you want to give up. Your position was untenable, so that makes sense. (And of course, calling it “silliness” is your futile attempt at saving face. I get that too.)
Very snarky remark, IMO
.
I think that if you replace ‘KG’ with ‘Sheed’ (in regards to last year) you may have a point about in-game antics and techs potentially losing games for the Celtics.
With KG, the ends justifies the means. IMO, that didn’t hold true with Sheed. At this time last year, we were worrying about how many games Sheed (and Perk as well!) would miss due to his (their) tech counts. The issue with both carried over into the playoffs as well, even though the tech count was reset after the regular season was over.
That wasn’t ever an issue with KG.
by GetYourSoxOn on Feb 13, 2011 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
I just thought you got a little carried away with your tirade, is all.
"The celtics were a way of life. A group of people so diverse you cannot imagine; working together, day in and day out for a common goal. What was necessary was ten players, two baskets, thirteen thousand people and one basketball. We would decide what was done with that one basketball." ~ Bill Russell
DRJ1, why do you have so much hate for KG?
Draza44 writes this terrific post, supporting, admiring and appreciating what KG has done for the game of basketball.
You, on the other hand insist on playing the role of Debby Downer. Why?
You attempt to insult his level of intelligence and his mental health.
…and regarding your complaint about him ‘costing’ his team games -
- is the biggest reason why there is an 17th banner hanging in the Gaaden.
This post is one of the best that I have read on this site.
Agree
…that KG is one of the biggest reasons for #17. Further, Cs can’t win #18 without him. For the rest, see comment just above.
Peace.
" KG is one of the biggest reasons for #17. Further, Cs can’t win #18 without him"
If you truly believe this ( which Im sure you do) then nothing else matters.
I personally think KG is often targeted by the officials. During the game against Dallas one of the refs went as far as putting his hands on him for no reason.
That’s my 2 cents.
Maybe we have a different definition of the good and the bad
His intensity is indeed a double-edged sword, it always is.
However, I agree that these so-called “antics” are a non-issue and blown out of proportion.
To add
Notice how all this talk about KG being a bully started after he won the title in 2008 and gave a speech at the post-game press conference about “getting the bully off his back”. What I witnessed was that this whole discussion was started by Lakers fans, who felt the Celtics took their manhood after the 39-point thrashing in game 6.
It's got nothing to do with that
Reggie Evans is not a great player. His teams have not beaten my Lakers teams. I still look down on his antics – notably grabbing Chris Kaman’s balls.
Chris Paul is a great player. His team hasn’t really beaten the Lakers in a significant game. I still look down on him punching Julius Hodges in the crotch when he was in college.
Separate the actions from the players, even from the sport of basketball. There is a competitive line that should not be crossed in any sport.
You can condemn KG’s unsportsmanlike conduct and still like the player. But to say it’s not unsportsmanlike , or that it’s trivial, or that everyone does it? I don’t get that.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Check out other players and tell me that nobody but KG does anything ‘mean’ or whatever the word you want to use. I think it is wrong to single players out. If you want to condemn KG for it then you need to condemn some other players too. KG is not the only guilty one. Personally I don’t think he has done a whole lot to merit the amount of overblown criticism. It is over the top and ridiculous! I have a feeling if KG breathed wrong now he would be condemned for it.
Just because others do it wouldnt make it right, try giving that explaination the next time you are pulled over.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 2:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ok I see your point (and to be fair, Dr J choked Bird 1st and looked like what he was doing was way more effective, referencing your earlier statement)
I think it all comes down to intentions, if KG was intentionally trying to physically hurt another player (and I think Frye and his jewels oversold the event) then it is not ok, not ok to intentionally potential hurt others by making them come down on your foot or anything similar.
I dont have a problem with him trash talking, calling a player cancer, getting on all 4s to defend/psych out opponents (infact I find that hilarious), I dont want him to lose his intensity, I just want him to remain smart about his actions, as in dont mess with a ref. The ref was wrong to touch him to, but he reacted without thinking and it could have had a negative consequence.
I do not think he is an intentional dirty player, I did not before he wore green and I do not now. But the perception is growing that he is, so I just want him to be smart about where he directs his emotions so the media driven perception doesnt bite him/us in the rear.
Stay intense KG.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 2:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Very well put- making a mountain out of a molehill.
As the British would say: A tempest in a tea cup.
Larry legend was the king of trash talking – I just read an entire page of his trash talk, and laughed and laughed.
Every great player, in any sport, has his foibles, and considering that K.Garnett is one of the greatest, his antics come under a microscope far more than the average player.
He has, what is known in show biz, as his schtick, and if it works for him and for the team [ and, apparently, there are no TEAM problems to speak of ] then so be it.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
The more players talk about KG the more we know KG is doing a superb job of getting into players’ heads. I mean when players actually get on Twitter days and even weeks later complaining about KG it is pretty hilarious to me. I can imagine former players like Bird and Mchale laughing at all this criticism and Tweets KG is getting. People are so bent out of shape because of KG it is hilarious.
Bird and McHale
are the first two I thought of when all this recent spate of “Oooh, KG’s such a mean guy!” criticism erupted.
McHale and Bird were nasty, tough players.
I agree becuase out of the few times that his actions have come out the majority came from after he outplayed the player who feels “attacked” by the big bully KG. I understand why people feel the way they feel, but if these players today can’t handle KG, then they wouldn’t even be able to handle Reggie Miller, Gary Payton, and Larry Bird’s trash talking. They wouldn’t be able to handle Malone and his elbows or even worse the Bad Boy’s of the NBA the 80’s Pistons who abused all players even Jordan.
People need to use his anger and intensity as influence and motivation, Jordan did with the Pistons and see how he turned out.
by JoT on Feb 9, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think I can clearly pinpoint the disagreement here
For us non-Celtic fans: What KG does is different than what Bird, Miller, or Payton did, not necessarily more harmful or dangerous, and not even more in quantity, it’s just different – it’s a different category of … whatever, I can’t even call it trash talk, it’s a different category, not more, or less, it’s different like bicycling is different from skateboarding.
JoT, mmmm, and Nora G1, etc. say it’s the same trash talk, same competitive spirit.
I guess we need to agree to disagree on this one, because if you don’t see it’s different, I don’t think I can convince you that it is, and vice versa.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Actually I shouldn't split this into Non-celtics fans vs
It’s just some fans vs other fans, mah bad.
"This is not a game for boys. This is a game for men." - Phil Jackson
Great point about Kobe
Truly — a GREAT point, which all Celtics fans (aka Lakers haters) should read. Lakers fans RECOGNIZE all that is imperfect about Kobe, but they ACCEPT his bad along with the good, because they believe the good far outweighs the bad. I agree COMPLETELY. There is NO DIFFERENCE between that approach to Kobe, and our approach to KG.
"KG is a Jerk but he's our Jerk"
…that was a horrible headline..and pretty disappointing to read.
Forgive him for being a Christian?
I hope this was a joke, though not funny at all.
Otherwise, competely disrespectful and abhorrent. May God have mercy on your soul.
KG is my favorite player of all-time
I’m from asia and before the 2000s, the NBA wasn’t shown on TV. In 2002, I went to LA. That was when i first saw KG in the 2002 nba playoffs, and I’ve been following him ever since. I agree with you on every point you made, I literally had tears falling from my eyes as I read this.
Keep it up!
It was in 2001 that I also became a fan after seeing this tall, skinny dude playing with such energy, passion and commitment
And I can tell anyone without hesitation that KG brought it every game, every time – even in his losing days in Minnesota (circa 2005-2007). When you were able to watch him at those times, you would ask yourself: “Why is he doing this? What’s the point? He’s on a losing team.” He has been that since he entered the league, and his competitive fire, whether on a winning or a losing team, won’t allow him to give less than a 100%. And that is why I love The Big Ticket.
If anyone in this league deserved a championship caliber team since he first came to the league, it was Kevin. Kudos to the greatest teammate to ever play the game.
“I do give a lot. I give two cents. It ain’t because I got to. It’s in me. This is how I came out of the womb. This is how I am. I’m built like this. You don’t play ball cause you got to. You don’t run sprints cause you got to. I don’t have to go into the gym and put up extra shots because I got to. I ain’t got to do none of that. This is how I’m built. This is me.” – KG
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Feb 8, 2011 6:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well-Written, DRZA44!
I think you have captured the essence of KG well. I think that if I were in KG’s shoes, I’d have an edge, myself.
Some could say that “Well, he’s a millionaire. Does it matter that he’s struggled at times?”
In KG’s eyes, I think he would’ve readily given up that money in Minny, if it meant getting more players around him.
For all that KG has achieved, he’s had to fight for it.
KG? Ray? Paul? Formed up in Boston – just past their primes. But that is a story for another day.
Bottom Line? All of the haters would accept Kevin Garnett on their team, no question. And he’d make every single one of them at least playoff-worthy (Detroit, PHX). The recent incidents with KG? Villanueva, Frye? Way too much attention.
I think that Jeff Clarke wrote the “Jerk” article as a way to note (from outside observers, at least) that KG’s antics cause concern. I think that’s a fair assessment, especially when you look at it from the standpoint of another’s (non-Celtic Fan, casual NBA fan) point of view.
I think that from Jeff’s standpoint you HAVE to at least acknowledge how other fans see Kevin Garnett. CelticsBlog is for Celtics Fans, but I am sure it is no doubt read by many. It is so easy to attempt to have a “Close-Minded” view of Celtics players.
In the vein of the “Jerk” article, I don’t believe Jeff Clarke did a crime.
My humble suggestion to these “Casual Observers”, “Non-Celtic” fans? Read this well-written article here by DRZA44 – and then do some more research on KG’s time in the NBA, yourself. Drza44 does a great job of introducing KG’s time in the NBA here, and afterwards I think that even casual fan may be able to discern why KG has an edge to him.
Some of this “edge” is just KG, no doubt. Some of this “edge” is due to not being spoon-fed success – having to fight for everything.
I know a little about struggle, myself.
This is just my two cents. I’m just a Die-Hard Celtics Fan. Since 1981. Glad to have KG onboard – in all of his alleged Jerk-dom.
June 2011 Cannot Come Soon Enough.
by Celtics18and19 on Feb 8, 2011 6:58 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Dont think I have seen you rec a post before, sir
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 2:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nice balanced perspective
+1
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 2:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Having keenly eyed Garnett's play during the seasons he was in the Western Conference --
and of course, now that he’s helping lead the Lakers’ most heralded historical adversary — my memory bank agrees very much with that of the author. And a key point is that most of his antics during his tenure in the league have been at arms’, or at least hand-clap length. Maybe that contributed to his “fake” tag in season’s past, but there was still no denying that his play first and foremost dictated who he was as a popular NBA player. But that was then.
Now, he’s starting to make contact with his antics, though they haven’t been in the role of an enforcer. So many people, including C’s fans, rightfully cringe. He’s no longer the top dog on a perennial also ran, he’s a leader of the Celtics — so he inherits a mantle of which the tone has been set by Russell and Bird — not a combination of Shawn Kemp (for his positive attributes such as lead-by-athleticism manner in his early years — not the latter-career weight problem of Kemp), Nick Van Exel and Clipper Darrell.
Anyway, the guy I saw flailing and pushing away to disengage from a ref who had a right to keep him at bay was not the same guy I saw when he was a Timberwolf. Let’s see where this goes.
As for Darth Kobe, it’s been fascinating that such a “selfish” player has decided to continue to fight his demons within the unselfish triangle all these years (of the perennial title-contending superstars, he and Duncan have stayed put), and recruits those with the most chutzpah to get in his face to play with him. Maybe when Phil retires, he’ll force Mitch and the Busses to bring Mike D. over from the Knicks so he can finally play the way he’s naturally inclined to play. If that happens, then OK, yeah, he’ll have gone over to the dark side.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
Wow 2 recent incidents where he made contact with someone. This hardly a consensus. People whining and making a big deal out of everything. Refs don’t need to grab players to get their attention across. The fact that KG was not suspended proves it was not as bad as some want to make it because of the big deal the league goes into protect the refs verbally and physically. Dwight Howard on the other hand uses his elbows as a lethal weapon and gets sway with it.
Exactly.
Wow 2 recent incidents where he made contact with someone.
Given his historical M.O., it’s notable. It’s not like the guy’s turned into a terror or anything. But I’m very confident that what I’m seeing lately is not what I’ve seen with my own eyes at The Forum and Staples, and on TV all these years from the guy.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
. . . And Ron Artest got a bloody nose . . . Those Gasol brothers are like the Bad Boy Pistons . . . . . .
Not going for that strawman (though I’m pretty sure if Ron thought Marc Gasol did what he did on purpose, Ron would’ve made just a wee bit more of a scene about it).
Here’s hoping for a well-fought bloodless rematch coming up.
"Please tell me some of these stories about Los Angeles being the basketball capital of the world." - Red Auerbach
"质量是我们的尊严。服务是我们的电梯。" ("Quality is our dignity. Service is our lift.")
great post drza...
I knew you were my favorite contributor on this blog for a reason. Once again, you’ve made me change my sentiments about a Celtics player and made me appreciate KG more than I already do. Thanks.
Wow...
Really well written, drza! This needs to be on the front page… so many people will never see this is if doesn’t make the front page. This basically covers every reason why I love KG. KG supporters unite!!!
I read and felt your article completely. I remember watching that interview with John Thompson when he broke down and cried becuase he was losing and I remember watching him get emotional when he lost to the Lakers in the WCF.
I cried and still cry when he ran onto the floor after the championship and yelled, “Anything is possible!” I cried when he hugged Bill Russell after the championship and said he had his own. If there has been one player that I felt deserved a ring and deserves another, it would be KG. He never had the privilege of other players who had a good or even great player to play with them, he didn’t want to leave Minn. and wanted to give them a championship, but couldn’t. I feel his pain of a loss and defeat in ways that I haven’t felt from any other player.
This year with the injuries has hurt me in many ways becuase I feel no other team deserves a ring more than this team. I’m wasn’t a full time Celtics fan at first, but the passion of KG and the team as whole to win despite injuries has made me addicted and wanting so badly for them to win. The hate this team recieves as of recently, the denial of their power and their hunger to win and the overexposing of the Heat while undermining the Celtics, and the term I keep hearing of “They’re old and tired” has led me to root for them.
I have prayed for this team to overcome injuries and I believe this time is just a test of their will and strength mentally and I believe with all their hard work banner 18 will be their biggest reward.
Im on the same boat
Being from Australia you can pretty much choose your side. And like yourself, I’ve been following KG since about 02 and I was so ecstatic when he landed in Boston. He was my favourite player since 02 and is to this day.
Wow. I’m heading ovr to the forums now to give you a Tommy Point.
by Amager Celtic Fan on Feb 9, 2011 1:45 AM EST reply actions
Wow... I'm drowing in this torrent of tears for KG
… and I can’t believe it. Oh well… to each his own.
Lighten up. Not everyone is going to agree with you.
by NoraG1 on Feb 9, 2011 3:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They used to call me KG
I hope KG reads this article !
Garnett always been my favorite player because for him it’s always been about the name on the front of the jersey and not the back!
His number were unmatchable but now his presence is unmatchable .
He’S the reason why I AM A CETLICS FAN !
And the CELTICS NATION OWES HIM RESPECT !
He’s one of the most important player in Basketball history, if you ask me ..
He was the first one out of highschool since Mosses Malone (26 years)
WIthout him they’re wouldn’t be a lot of players playing the way they’re playing the game today .
He’s THE KID WHO CHANGED THE GAME
BANNER 18 IS ON THE WAY FOLKS !
by KGfanfromMONTREAL on Feb 9, 2011 3:25 AM EST reply actions
26 pts 14 rebounds GM 6 of the 2008 FINALS
WE OWE HIM BANNER 17
BANNER 18 is coming !
by KGfanfromMONTREAL on Feb 9, 2011 3:27 AM EST reply actions
All I can say is...
I hated KG when he was on the Timberwolves, simply because I didn´t like the best paid player in the NBA cry about how he hates losing all the time. On the other hand, Ray Allen has been my favourite player in the league from his very first game, and Pierce was “the man” for my favourite franchise for a decade. So I had very mixed feelings after the 2007 off-season.
But I quickly realized how wrong I was. I love him since he´s on the Celtics. He is by far and away our most important player, and I don´t want him to change one bit. The man is a true great of this sport, and despite all his accolades, insanely underrated, even by Celtics fans.
I think what really works against him, in the public eye, is his tendency for drama. People think it´s fake, but they don´t seem to realize that this is just KG being KG, in color and dolby-surround. A man who leaves everything he´s got on the floor, for the game he truly loves. It may sound clichee, but it´s really true in this case.
I want to echo other posters who said this post belongs on the front-page.
Blinded by loyalty
You are blinded to some facts about Garnett due to your loyalty.
1) He never wanted to take the big shot in crunch time. You can never be a true alpha dog if you don’t want the ball when the game is on the line.
2) The man is a jerk and plays the game like a man with little character. And character is more than just caring and playing with intensity at all times. It also involves how you treat your opponent, which should include dignity and respect.
Well said NoraG1
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
Calling KG a jerk goes too far
Blinding oneself to the areas in which KG needs improvement – including and especially his recent slide in the area of self-control – is also a mistake. He is not a jerk, and he is not perfect.
The truth is what it is.
Your Right
Jerk is probably not right to say.
But to fit all of his behavior under the “he is not perfect” banner is not right either.
Did you not even read the article?
1) Its a team game. Who gives a &**T about whether he’s an ‘alpha dog’? Garnett is all about making his TEAM better and giving his TEAM the best chance to win. Screw hero ball.
2) Ad hom comment noted. Worthless, but noted. Though at least we now know we can look to you to be our bastion and light of morality and character.
More sarcasm and poorly disguised insults
Can you not discuss ANYTHING without resorting to your ‘youthful’ ad hominem attacks?
At times, yes.
Not always up for long, detailed responses to clearly flawed arguments. I’m very tired and grumpy these days. Too much shoveling of snow.
Technically, my response here is barely in the realm of an ad hom. Sarcastic yes. Sneaks slightly into the ad hom realm because the sarcasm does potentially lead the reader to a sense of belittling of the foil.
Given that you have accused so many to be ‘blinded by hero worship’ and lamented saracastically about ‘drowning in a torrent of tears for KG’, and otherwise lectured loudly and stridently with an air of moral indignation, perhaps you should examine your own discussion style.
hey, I've got an idea
why don’t you guys leave the moderating to the mods
if something bothers you, bring it up with us, don’t try to “correct” people’s posting habits please
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
Sounds good.
I apologize if I have stepped too far in that direction.
I dont really see what was said wrong, just debating different opiniins and defending themselves. But I guess I will learn to take my defensive arguements down a notch. Gal I am not a moderator, must be tough.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 2:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
"Best Player in the NBA"
Does not pass up shots in crunch time because of a lack of fortitude. That doesn’t make your TEAM better.
I am speaking...
About his time in MN and not so much in Boston where his teammates should be the ones taking the crunch time shots.
Does he pass up shots if his teammate has a better one?
Or does your idea of a “Best Player in the NBA” take a lesser shot because, well, he’s got ‘fortitude’? Does that help make your TEAM better?
I was just about to mention that too. In Minny he was the only threat most of the time so he was often triple teamed. That leads someone else to be wide open. I don’t know why this concept is so hard to comprehend sometimes.
Are you telling me...
that the lack of crunch time shots attempted by Garnett is due his unselfishness. To a degree I would agree with you, but I think that breaks down at a certain point. The best players on your TEAM need to take those shots because they are your best options. I don’t believe it wasn’t always unselfishness, with KG at times it has been hesitancy and lack of courage to step up and take the big shot.
I think he is a great player, especially for what he does on the defensive end. However, the hyperbole gets to be too much for a player that shies away coming down the stretch on the offensive end.
Agreed
Most of the time that is true. But no way is his lack of shots in crunch time are not all due to passing to open teammates.
Well done Jeff, for inviting the entire fan base to see this article.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
great read!
enjoyed it thoroughly and trust me drz44, you are quite eloquent!
i was a kg fan first before i was a celtics fan (and i used to like pp and ray individually even before the big 3 got together). and i became a kg fan almost exactly the same way you did. heard about him from a friend of mine (who had played some basketball and was more nba knowledgeable) and became a fan of his instantly even before i watched him play a few games for minny. and i will always be a fan of his irrespective of the team he plays on.
and agree totally that we should enjoy him when he is around. for, when he is done playing, there will never be one more like him walking through the doors.
Excellent Article
Great timeline of KG and his Sota days to where he is now with Celtic Nation. I enjoyed reading the article. From one KG fan to another, Good Job.
all green, all day
I have sent this article to Wojnarowski
And I hope that you will too. It would be great to see this kind of rebuttal posted on some of the major sites.
+1
Zach from Point Forward? If so, love your stuff, if not kudos for the extra effort.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 3:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My kg my hero
Kg saved us, Celtic fans!!! I don’t care how his attitude is on the court but outside I do care about. He brought back the 80’s celtics. The reason why said that, because Larry bird was the same way, he was a trash talker. He got into fights with the pistons and with Dr J. I don’t know why people complain about kg. You cant be soft and let them handel you. Then if you guys don’t like how kg plays on the court then we should just trade him because he’s not helping us win. If doc has no problem with kg on the court, US Celtic fans should not complain. Cuz once he’s gone, whose gonna replace him??
by CBleedsGreeN on Feb 9, 2011 6:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
+1
I just love the guy,if Danny,Doc and his teammates aren’t worried then why should we be?The guy has more passion in his finger, than any player I’ve seen in a long time.I think he’s just great
by nanaluvsball on Feb 9, 2011 8:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
KG being KG..
.. is an understatement. Lot of debate here but no one denies the fact that KG is one of the greatest. Would he be in that place if he “toned it down a bit” or “learn some self control”. I think not.
But that is not the issue here, the real issue is people taking his “antics” (God I hate this word) more seriously this year. Its not as if he snaped this year and started acting like a lonnie all of the sudden. Its the extra attention brought to him by something that should have never happened (villanoueva cancer thingy going public), and since then anti-KG fan base has gone wild, players picking up the mentality as well.
I might have my green googles on but I really don’t see difference between pre green KG and green KG (as one lakers fan tried to explain) all I see is different reaction to him.
It is unfair to say it is ok to act like an animal while your team is losing but consider him a bully when he is on a winning team.
Whats wrong with this picture?
-yeah that KG kid is really fun to watch, he is so intense, too bad he plays in Minny-1999
-KG is so intense, I can’t believe that he acts like a bully- 2011
I've been called a lot worse things than "wrong"
love the debate and I welcome all sides of the issue
that said, I stand by my article – including the word choice of “jerk” in relation to his on-court antics
cheers
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
+1
‘Nothing at all wrong with your article. A fine article. It very appropriately points out a list of purported ’offenses’ while also noting that each can be interpreted more than one way.
You illustrated a situation without really judging and inspired discussion. Awesome, really.
I think this is a great post!
I’m dreading the day KG decides to hang them up.
If you put as much of yourself, as much effort into other pats of your life as you did in this article, you must be a savant. I am glad there are still such fans as you. And glad to root for the same team and player as you.
I dont need to add anything to this article to explain how KG has had an unnecessary bad rep projected onto him. And I dont care, cause he is still the man.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 1:59 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Guess I had things to ad afterall.
Again, really great article sir.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 10, 2011 3:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gasoft defending Garnett
Gasol, who is in town for tomorrow night’s game at the Garden, has been surprised by all of the negative talk directed at Garnett recently. "I don’t know why he’s being so openly discussed," Gasol said after today’s practice at Emerson College. "He’s been playing this way his whole career. Is it shocking? No, it’s what he brings to the table. I think he’s gotten what he’s gotten thanks to this style of play and his attitude about it. I have no complaints whatsoever."
I believe in The Switch
It's nice to see a well known player like Gasol speak up in a positive way about K.Garnett.
As much as I hate Pau Gasol as a player, [ it would be different, of course, if he was wearing Green ] his words about K.Garnett demonstrate class. Well done.
Lygafe.
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix
http://lygaffen.blogspot.com/
http://community.webshots.com/user/lygafe
http://forums.internationalhockey.net/showthread.php?t=7448&page=2
International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ]
Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
http://www.eurohockey.net/news/story.html?id=20090408104226_herzliya_emerges_as_israeli_national_league_champions
LOL - Exactly. Great case example.
Talk about a player we ‘Love to Hate’ …. but if he were wearing green ….
Ultimately it has little to do with ‘dirty play’ or ‘trash talk’.
Too bad Phil Jackson couldn’t keep to the high road on this topic as well.
THANK YOU
Thank you for posting this. I can see myself in you. I have long followed KG in Minnesota. I thought I’m the one writing this blog. I agree to every word you wrote.
As always, I'm WAY late to the discussion
Love this post.
KG is the epitome of a what all basketball players should strive to be. Team first. Team last. Team always.
As far as KG being a jerk? Pffft!
Being a jerk or not being a jerk, is not even part of the equation. It is simply about giving maximum effort. Sports are not for the faint of heart.
As far as all of the players/coaches complaining about KG, they are just weak. Should not even be in the league. It is not a coincidence the players/coaches bad mouthing KG are of little to no significance in this league. Ever heard Kobe, LeBron, Phil, Pop, etc… say anything about KG’s supposed “antics”? Nope. Real competitors won’t. They deal with them, overcome them, or just plain ignore them.
This whole arguement is just silly, and it makes me laugh.
by KG's Knee on Feb 10, 2011 8:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You do know Phil criticized KG recently. He said he didn’t want Pau to be like him and in many words said he wasn’t happy with his cheap shots at players, Pau was an intelligent player and that he’s been to three finals appearances and knows what he’s doing right.
OK
In that case, I was wrong about Phil, although this could just be another one of Phil’s zen master moments and he doesn’t even mean/believe what he is saying.
Kind of ironic though, considering Gasol himself recently came out and defended KG.
Additionally
Regardless of whether Phil meant what he said or not, the point is unchanged.
Real competitors don’t cry over stuff like this, they thrive.
yeah - I don't see this as Phil complaining or whining that 'KG is a bully!' or anything like that.
This is just Phil trying to play his Zen mind-games.
Jackson is not in position to complain about some other player’s supposed ‘dirty play’ when he has Artest in his lineup.
Could not agree more with this whole post
Excellent writing here. KG plays the way I wish I could play but since I just play pick up games i’ve had to tone it down a bit. KG is what is right with sports today (there is very little left that is right). He goes 100% all the time, no stopping, no quitting, nothing but maximum effort all the time. Imagine if all the players played this way, where would the league be? How much better would the compititon be? I think it would be amazing. it would be what sports were meant to be.
The part about watching KG’s whole career….that’s just special, it can’t be replaced. I have the same thing going on with Pierce, i’ve watched every single game of his Pro career. the night the C’s got the 5th pick, i was devastated, i shed a few tears. I thought for sure I had already seen the last game of PP’s career in green. But then the trades went down and hope had been restored. What came next was probably the best season I’ll ever witness in my life, it was just amazing. The ring ceremony was unreal at the start of the next season, I was in tears when PP got his ring. To watch a player for 10+ years finally achieve the highest goal in the sport is something that can not be replaced. after that long you feel that your a part of it too, you’ve been through the struggles, seen the highs & lows.
Wish I could have been along for the whole KG ride too, but i’ve been more than thrilled to ride the last 4 years with him and hope there a few solid years left in the tank.
by IowaGuy on Feb 10, 2011 1:48 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
nicely done
I really think most people over react on anything KG does. It also seems that some fans are truly in touch with their feminine side. I believe that the people that really detest what KG does have thin skin and have never really been bullied or picked on. You know what I have been picked on and am better for it. I feel while the players are on the court it is war. Think Kevin McHale taking out Kirk Rambus. All things go on the floor. Now you may get a foul or T’d up or god forbid tossed from the game. That doesn’t matter, what matters is what the scoreboard says when the time hit’s all 0’s. THIS IS ENTERTAINMENT and A GAME players PLAY. Under these guidelines I feel what happens on the floor stays on the floor. Stop judging people, yet you be judged yourself. KEEP PLAYING THE WAY YOU PLAY KG. Don’t let the wussification of America influence you like it did Joakim Noah.
Jeffrey M Melhorn
I love KG, too, even though he's a Celtic now...
I thought he was great in Minnesota and he played all those years where he was the only lpayer there and he never complained about it. That got my respect.
He can do some bizarre things. But the one thing you can’t question is his heart, his desire. That’s a guy you want on your team….
I am avid follower of things Celtics.. but I just had to get a login and add to this superb articles..
I am a big fan of KG and what I like best about Celtics is epitomised by KG and Celtics got the swagger, spirit and the defence coz of him, not Pierce, Ray and Rondo… I like and appreciate those dudes but KG is who makes the celtics the CELTICS… even Pierce, Doc has admitted that..
in turn, I just hope v r not too quick to judge him when his intensity has negative consequences, if we can live with Rondo shooting, Pierce iso, Ray defence.. pls let us cut some slack to KG as well.. cheers
I think the same thing in a way he brought this certain attitude and spirit that I’ve never seen in many of these players before. I look back at highlights of Paul, Ray and even Rondo and BBD before this year and it seems KG has brushed a little of his heart and intensity on them. I know that probably Dwight might win DPOTY, but I would love for KG to win because of the impact he brings on the floor while playing defense.
I wish more people got to see KG in his prime like I did as a child.
They would know he is and will always be a legend to the NBA.
KG has his flaws but his leadership and inspiration
are everything to this team. He’s hell to other teams, but to his own team, he is the father, teacher, helper, and the stern hand that says ‘win’ at all costs.
agreed
mmbaby is right on every word in that comment
CELTICS FTW THERE ON THERE WAY TO #18 LETS GO CELTICS

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