In Need Of Small Forward Depth
by Jeff Clark on Feb 8, 2011 6:54 AM EST
in Boston Celtics Articles
Email
PrintNobody could have foreseen the scary episode when Marquis Daniels fell to the floor on Sunday. On the other hand, based on his injury history it can't come as a huge surprise that Daniels is going to miss another stretch of time. As Jimmy expertly put yesterday, basketball pales in comparison to Quis' health. But the team still has to play basketball games and I'm not sure they can wait around for 1 to 2 months for the chance that Daniels might return to the court.
The first goal is to get a better estimate of how long he will be out and any indication of how effective he might be at that time. Next, we have to see what else is out there.
Celtics could consider making move -Celtics blog - Boston Globe basketball news
Celtics coach Doc River said the team may not have any other choice but to consider a roster move. "I think what we have to do really is wait and see with the Marquis situation, how long that will be," Rivers said. "If that’s long then we have to do something. We have to get another ‘3’ let’s just be serious."
Even before Sunday, the team was very thin at the small forward position. It was Paul Pierce, Marquis, and ...Doc gets creative. I think in the immediate future Doc will continue to play with 3 guard sets and long minutes for Pierce and Allen, but obviously that isn't a great long term solution.
Getting Delonte West back will also help, but once again, he's not a 3 and asking him to defend taller players isn't a good way to ease him back from injury. We can ask Von Wafer, Luke Harangody, and Avery Bradley to step up, but none of them are 3's and would either be out of position or filling in for someone who's out of position. We have the luxury of having versatile players, but everything seems to run much more efficiently when people are playing their natural roles.
So that leaves us looking outside the organization for help.
One option is the trade route. So bring out the usual suspects (Rip Hamilton?). Fire up the trade machine. Post your best ideas here or in the Trade Ideas Forum.
Of course, there are problems with the Rip Hamilton idea. Trading for him would seem very, very unlikely since he makes over $12M per in the next 2 years and I can't imagine Ainge taking on salary beyond next season for anyone that he can't picture running alongside Rondo for the next 5 - 10 years or so. He could get bought out after the trade deadline but he also started playing again this week (likely to be showcased) so we'll have to wait and see on that. Oh, and by the way, Rip doesn't really help us at the three (specifically). So if we are going to go with more guards, we might as well just roll with Von and insert West when he's available.
Teyshaun Prince would be a much better fit and has an expiring deal, but he also makes over $11M this year and matching that salary would problematic at best. Nate Robinson and Jermaine O'Neal match salary-wise, but both are signed through next year and Dumars would want something more in return for adding an extra year of salary and they already have a gunner guard (Gordon) and gimpy center (Wallace).
Could we pry Shane Battier away from Houston? They have an over-supply of forwards and he would seem to be redundant there, but he's also an expiring contract (another reason he'd be attractive here) and I'd think the Rockets could get better than Nate, salary filler (Luke?) and a pick for him - which is about all I could imagine we'd be able to offer.
I'm sure there are other trade targets out there to consider, but I'm not sure we have the assets to bring back a difference maker. Still, I'm willing to admit that I haven't thought of everything. There could be a deal out there.
Another option would be to add a free agent. We don't yet know which veterans will be cut around or after the deadline but there's always the D-League. One name to watch is DeShawn Sims, who just made the D-League All Star team for the Maine Red Claws (coached by Danny's son Austin).
Snapshot: Sims a Star - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston
Sims, who played for the Celtics' summer league squad after going undrafted out of Michigan, is averaging 18.2 points and 8.3 rebounds in 27 appearances (24 starts) for Maine. Sims began the year with PAOK Thessaloniki in Greece, but returned stateside and was swooped up by the Claws in the available player pool.
He might not be ready for playoff rotation minutes, but he could eat up some minutes in these regular season games as the season slogs along. Of course the issue there would be creating a roster spot for him. That would mean cutting someone or making a trade that opens up a spot.
Got any other ideas? Share them here.
196 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This is it, in a nutshell:
Celtics are a mere 2-7 on the back end of games played on the road (falling to Cleveland, Dallas, Chicago, Washington, Phoenix and Charlotte)…From Forsberg.
Look at some of THOSE teams, said at the beg. of season, this would rear it’s ugly head.
The good news about the playoffs…
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
Hey Jeff
Rather than get an over the hill player (Hamilton), I think Wafer can fill in on a short term basis. Heck, to take it a step further, I wouldn’t mind if he gets more minutes when West comes back to play the point, as the backup two guard. I think Nate and his 40% FG percentage, and almost 10% less than that from 3 point land, can sit a little more.
Honestly, no idea why Danny gave this guy a new two year deal, one year would have sufficed!
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
Wafer can't guard anyone in the post.
Did you see how Jackson/Wallace just flat out ran through him down there last night?
The guys listed at 6’5, but he’s about the smallest 6’5 player I’ve ever seen, and he’s a wiry framed player, he just can’t stand up to strong athletic SFs what can play in the post (Melo, James, Jackson, Wallace, etc…) Pierce can’t be on the floor 48 minutes a game, you have to have to a guy who has the strength and speed to guard guys like that for small stretches. Daniels wasn’t great at it, but he was capable. Without him, Doc is 100% right, you you gotta fill that hole, there’s no question about it.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
All I am saying
is on a “short term basis”, not three months for example. Jackson wasn’t even there very long
last night, got tossed.
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
But while he was, he torched him in the post.
And Wallace did anything he was out there.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Would be great.
Pietrus is exactly the kind of player we’d be looking for.
Problem is, Phoenix already has Dragic, and PG depth doesn’t exactly help them, I think Nate could success in that kind of run and gun offense though. But Luke doesn’t add much there. The only benefit to that deal is saving 600k, and maybe grabbing a draft pick. I don’t think they’re dieing to get rid of Pietrus that much, especially with him on an expiring deal.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Jermaine and Bradley for Battier!!! (Or Lee AND Jeffries)
Or, Jermaine, Nate and Bradley for Prince or Hamilton AND Will Bynum
Ivan Johnson
I’ve been watching quite a few Red Claws games lately to scout Bradley. I have not been too impressed with Sims.
One guy who jumped out at me is Ivan Johnson. I’d rate him higher than Sims. He reminds me of a poor man’s Gerald Wallace. FWIW
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Tough spot for Doc and Danny
It seems like a low odds bet at this point to rely on MD coming back. Probably more Ray at the 3 in the interim; Doc will have to stagger his substitutions more, pull one of Ray or Paul earlier in the game.
Right now, I see only a few tradeable pieces to work with Nate, Bradley and a 1st round pick. Not sure that will get much done.
on top of that
As Poorly as Nate has played, it’s going to leave us pretty thin at the PG/ballhandling spot if we trade Nate.
Not when West is healthy.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Good point
If Rondo’s plantar/foot issue holds up. The problem is Danny Boy gave Nate a two year deal
I guess Coughlin stays, the Chin is not in.
Okay, then fire Quinn, and bring in a young receivers coach.
PLEASE!
True.
And teams are less likely to want to take on an extra year of salary.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
"if" West is healthy
Still remains to be seen. Say what you want about Nate (and a lot can be said in the negative) he’s been able to play every game this year. Rondo and West aren’t exactly models of the unbreakable. I’m just saying two guys for one spot, will leave us at risk. And I just worry about the PG a little more because we don’t have guys who can swing over there as easily as other spots. Pierce and Ray are just not good enough ballhandlers that I want them bringing it up a lot.
In the end I guess Danny is going to have to weigh the relative risks. One spot or another is going to be weak it looks like.
It's been a tough season for West.
But you can’t exactly fault him for a freak injury like a broken wrist. They just happens. He doesn’t have a chronic history of injuries however, and as long as his bones stay intact, should be perfectly healthy.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I don’t know his exact history, but my personal recollection is that he gets banged up more than a little. He was also missing practices earlier in the year around training camp and preseason because of his back. I guess I’d just rather have 3 PGs on the roster if possible. It might not be possible of course.
question, can we trade the money we owe rasheed even though we waived him since it counts toward the cap.
i thought you could but cant find any info on it.
dont think ainge would trade davis, perkins or bradley so that really leaves nate, harangody, wafer.
looking at remaining FA’s there isnt alot there, carney, finley, morrison, george…….
the cav’s might take nate and wafer/gody rounder for parker and moon. would give us a real SG and SF
kings have been shopping carl landry and im pretty sure they’d love to have nate. i know landry is a PF but he’s capable of playing SF.
rockets have battier and rumors have them trading their PG brooks so nate and cash makes sense.
suns might deal pietrus for nate who would fit in well with their run-n-gun style offense.
pacers have our old friend posey….
grizzlies mayo and allen…but what would memphis want…..probably to much
denver has jr smith but again what would they want
it will be interesting to see what ainge comes up with…..fingers crossed whatever it is helps and doesnt mess up chemistry
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 8:30 AM EST reply actions
No, I don't think you can.
The contract is bought out, so there’s nothing to trade anymore. You don’t get any kind of exception for that money, far as I know.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
contract isnt bought out
we still owe wallace $6m this year and next, thats why i was wondering.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Well, maybe they have an agreement on how it's paid...
But the contract is bought out. As far as the NBA is concerned, it doesn’t exist anymore. How Wallace is paid on the remainder is between him and the team.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I don't know for sure, but I doubt we actually 'owe' Sheed any money unless he reactivates.
I’m assuming that he’s been technically suspended for failure to report. This allows them to not pay him without having to officially retire his contract. The money DOES count against the C’s cap, of course.
If this is the case, then technically we could still trade his contract. The receiving team would then accept Sheed’s retirement papers in order to realize the cap space.
HoopsHype shows that Sheed's salary is still counting on the Celtic's books
This supports that it has NOT been bought out and he has NOT yet officially retired, per the scenario I outlined.
can't believe Nate making 4.2 M a year
Perk makes 4.3 M, Davis 3.3M, no wander they want more money, Nate is useless not to mention he doesn’t deservr that mpney, what DA was thinking.
by greenSanDiego on Feb 9, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
No, that's not right.
Contract buy outs count against the teams cap prorated for the remainder of the deal.
So if the team agreed to a buyout, of say, 12 million, and there were two years left on the deal, 6 million counts against the teams cap in both years.
See here:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q62
See question 62-63.
So just because the money is “on the books” doesn’t mean he hasn’t retired/bought out.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Why would they agree to a buyout of 12M?
I never said buyouts don’t count against the cap. What I am saying is that a buyout wouldn’t make optimal sense for the C’s. It certainly wouldn’t make sense to buyout at cost.
If they DID a buyout, I doubt seriously it would be for the full 12M. It would be for a much lower amount and THAT lower amount would appear on the books.
It is still possible that they DID do a buyout and that hoopshype and sportcity.com are both showing incorrect data.
denver is the team that makes the most sense to me
melo is gone and they will be in rebuild mode. everyone will be gone
i dont know if denver would be able to get j.r. smith to sign an extension or not but if they could i would offer then nate, jo, wafer and this years 1st rounder for smith, birdman(even though he has 4 years left, he doesnt make more than $4.8 in any year though) and ronaldo balkman(3 years at $1.6m).
it would save denver 2 year of birdamn, save them $1.4m this year and gets them another 1st rounder. meanwhile we add an athletic shot blocker, rebounder, a SG/SF who can shoot and a SF who can rebound and play good defense.
id feel alot better about our bench if it looked like this: shaq, davis, birdman, balkman, daniels, smith, west, bradley, harangody.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Say not to Smith.
The guy is poison to a team.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Most interesting deal I have seen proposed. Dont know much about Balkman, is he worth being a piece post kg? Smith is kind of, well … A Jerk, but I bet we can motivate the dude for half a season. Love the Birdman, wanted the C’s to be able to get him years ago.
This is actually a trade we could pull off, I think as they have tried to dump both Smith and Balkman. Plus our pick will be high anyway, Danny does well with the draft, high 1st rounders and 2nd rounders, but well worth it.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 9, 2011 8:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
jamario moon could at least suck up some minutes with acceptable defense and shooting
he’s no great shakes, but could fill a need.
I like Moon a lot.
I just don’t see how you make it work. Cleveland seems like a likely candidate to trade with, as they will be looking to stockpile draft picks. But Moon is on an expiring deal, they’re most likely going to want to bring in more than trade filler + draft pick for him. What do the Celtics have of value really? Glen Davis? They already got a young PF in Hickson. Nate? He’s struggled a lot this year and has an extra year on his contract, so the Cavs would be taking on money to get him.
I just don’t see what makes them want to make that deal, since there is no player in the Celtics which really serves any great need for them. They’d basically just be doing it to grab a draft pick for Moon.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
PIETRUS!
I am on board with this one… Suns usually give players away, and Pietrus would PERFECTLY fill the void that has never been filled since Posey left.
Perfect fit. Great player.
foot surgery
he’s down and out
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yea Lasme is out due to foot sugery...
Though more of a undersized power forward Doc did say that Lasme had the skills to play at the 3 position so it would of been interesting to see if he could of helped out currently backing up Pierce.
.
This Is The Team
Nate isn’t going anywhere. Despite his shooting woes, he is a high energy guy that we need to give a lift. JO has no trade value since he is signed for another year and cannot be taken off another team’s books after this year. Will not get much value in return for Luke. Not many assets to entice other teams with. As for Sheed, we would need him now and cannot imagine he is in game shape. I think we are going to war with this line-up folks. I am game as long as everyone is healthy come April. Thank God no back to backs in the playoffs and less travel.
When is Nate going to provide the "high energy" to the team?
He is by far the worst player on the roster right now and an almost complete negative any time he hits the court.
I don't agree with that at all.
At times, he’s been a spark plug both offensively and defensively. He’s struggled with consistency no doubt. But there have been a handful of games where his energy and hustle on defense and going for loose balls has been a considerable asset to the team.
His shot is struggling, and for him to be a the player we need him to be, that obviously needs to improve. But, “By far the worst player on the roster”? Come on man… that’s a bit much.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
probably the second worst player
every time he does a good thing, next play is a mistake, inconsistent, bad decision taker.
by greenSanDiego on Feb 8, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Judge Nate After West Returns
Then we can truly see his value off the ball. I like his energy and defense. He will win us a few games before the season is over. If he is not the PG on the second unit, then he will make better decisions.
We've been saying that a lot
But the unhappy truth is: West’s return will not add new brain cells in Nate’s head. He makes bad decisions, and always will.
Nate has played off the ball and with Rondo quite a bit in the past few weeks
He is still making few shots and making lots of bad decisions. I am guessing there will be little or no change when Delonte returns.
Problem is, he's going to play no matter what.
So we just have to hope he figures it out and starts producing. With Daniels out, they have to move Wafer into that 3 spot, so even when West gets back, Robinson will see team at SG to give Ray Allen a rest.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Well.... maybe
He prob won’t play all that much if he’s traded :)
I think Nate is kind of like Tony Allen. For Tony it was more defensive plays, but if Nate is making shots his net overall contribution is positive. The problem is he hasn’t been making shots for a while now. And I don’t really buy the off the ball with Delonte theory either, because as you say he’s done it with Rondo, and he’s also done it in stretches with Pierce and Daniels. He’s just missing at this point.
NOT WORRIED
It’s about the playoffs. Back to back’s do not exist in the playoffs and this team will probably be much healthier and certainly more focussed. When I watch this team play its tightest defense again the better teams, it’s like watching poetry in motion with a deadly result—a lack of scoring by the opposition This team will be fine.
Exactly.
All about the playoffs. At worst, I see us as a second seed. If so, then that means we likel play the Bulls or Magic in second round with home court. If Miami is the top seed, then I like our chances on their court. Remember, we beat a very good Cavs team last year in 6 games without home court. I am not convinced yet that this Miami team is better than last year’s Cavs. Much rather have home court in the finals. If the Lakers or Mavs can knock off the Spurs, then we will have home court against either one. Like last year, more important to get everyone healthy. It is the opposite right now of last year. KG, Ray and PP are playing some serious minutes at the moment. Last year, Ray was the only one getting extensive time. So my fear is that these three are worn by the playoffs.
Rent Carmelo!
Pierce and Nate for Carmelo and Renaldo Balkman.
or
Pierce and Nate for Carmelo and Gary Forbes.
-C’s have 1 last run in them. This is the year. For this year, are they better off renting Carmelo or keeping Pierce?
-Get’s C’s out from Pierce’s contract, which will be cumbersome in the coming years.
-Hope Delonte or Avery can backup Rondo at PG. Admit it: it’s hard to imaging any team with Nate Robinson playing significant minutes winning a championship.
-Run Carmelo into the ground for 42 min/game. Mix/match backup between Wafer and Balkman/Forbes for the remaning 6 minutes.
-Does Denver bite? Is this offer better than the Knicks/TWolves offer of Chandler/Brewer/#1?
Is this a joke?
There are so many things wrong about this post that it must be
"It's my experience, no experience is a bad one."
we should also trade our uniforms
once pierce is gone we could go with blue, or maybe indigo
by sofutomygaha on Feb 8, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Might as well 'get out from under'
….the contracts of KG and Ray too. We can package them and maybe get Kobe and PauG! Excellent ideas, all. Anybody got Danny’s phone number?
seems like Posey will fit better
he knows our system and is a good defender (which we need against LeQueen and Komeme) hope we can find a decent SF soon.
I have been saying...
all year that the 3 position was the C’s weakest roster position with the C’s really being only 2 deep with Pierce and Daniels and that the C’s would be in trouble if either Pierce or Daniels got injured and now unfortunately it is the case.
With Daniels hurt and out 1-2 months at least and who knows maybe longer the C’s need to now bolster the position and find someone who can back up Pierce.
I think for spot duty Wafer and Ray can back up Pierce but I would not want to head into the playoffs with them as the back ups if Daniels can not come back this year.
If Daniels is out for the season the C’s will need to find a legit backup 3 to play behind Pierce.
If the C’s try to do so within the organization Id like to see Deshawn Simms who has some skills and size get a chance to play the 3 postion as he has some nice skills and size.
Id also like to give Harangody a test run playing the 3 position to see if he can maybe develop into a back up 3 and help back up Pierce.
But if either of the above do not work out the C’s will probably have no choice but to acquire a back up 3 via trade or buyout signing.
i imagine ainge will be monitoring players who want buyouts.
just dont see anyone who will get bought out this year
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I think da waits for players after trade deadline. Getting a player on the cheap is his style in this situation.
by vgarcia890 on Feb 8, 2011 9:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
that's the way I see it
if a guy does become available on the cheap, he’ll have to be a much better option than Wafer who will most likely be cut to make room on the roster
Luke can't play 3.
He just doesn’t have the foot speed to stay with guys on the perimeter.
It’s a tough dilemma right now no doubt, you got Wafer, who has the speed to stay in front of SFs on the perimeter, but gets overrun in the post. Or Luke, who has the strength to guard SFs in the post, but will get torched on the perimeter. It’s a pick your poison type scenario.
Simms I like, I think the guys got real potential, he had a great summer league, and has been thriving in the D-league. But… it’s the D-league, so lets temper our expectations there a bit. And you have to cut a contract to bring him in, so that’s a tough one to swallow really.
They’re clearly stuck between a rock and a hard place here.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Agree Luke may have speed problems...
against the smaller quicker 3’s but I would still like to see the C’s test him out at the position at least against the bigger 3’s (like Wallace last night) until a more permanent back up 3 can be found as I have reservations about Wafer.
The big question is do the C’s think Wafer can help at the back up 3 position or not?
If they do not think he can help (now when they need a back up 3 so badly) then there is no reason to keep him on the roster (since we will be stacked in the backcourt when Delonte returns).
Again if the C’s think Wafer he can not help them they should cut or try to trade him to open up a roster spot for either Simms or another back up 3 they want go after, or even another insurance big that many (like my self) want to see the C’s acquire with all the health issues surrounding our current bigs.
Doc's statement was pretty telling.
You don’t drop the line “We need to get a ‘3’, let’s be honest” if you think Wafer can play at SF.
So obviously, that tells you right there how they feel about his ability to play SF.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Yea
Doc’s statement says alot.
Lets remember also Wafer was really allowed to stay on the roster longer then expected due to Delontes injury.
With Delonte back soon and the C’s lacking confidence in Wafer ability to play the 3 position, it looks like he is the most expendable player currently on the roster to get the ax to open up a roster spot to acquire either a legit back up 3 (which is most pressing currently) and / or another back up big.
Time for TA
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
or
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
I think we can get Tony Allen back. He knows the system and at 3×3mil, he’s not a terrible contract. Not sure if memphis is working out for him, he is playingn 20 minutes a game. Nate and a pick might work. Perhaps not.
Memphis has Mayo on the block though.
So TA is a key cog in their back court rotation, especially if Mayo finally ends up being traded.
I doubt they move him… besides we’ve been down that road. He has his chance to play in Boston again. Bridge is burned, let’s not rebuild it.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
My fear is this team will never be completely healthy
And, while the 3 position is a big concern, the unrealiability and injury woes at the center position are even more important to me. We know we cannnot count on JO, and who knows what Shaq is going to be able to give? As the year has worn on, he has come up with injury after injury. We also know that Semih has a myriad of injuries that have bothered him all year. We no longer have any depth at the center position. While the playoffs and championships are the main goal, I just don’t think this team will ever have the roster it needs to win the championship. As for the rest of the games leading up to the playoffs, it could be an o-fer, given the fact that the team has no backup 3 and one healthy center. And, with the nech consisting of one dependable player in Baby, I fear the next two games against the Lakers and Heat are going to be extremely ugly. The only thing to look forward to is Ray breaking the record. Miami will likely head into the all star break with the top record in the east, but we have to live with it because the Celts simply do not have the players right now.
Doc has said numerous time, if this was the playoffs, Shaq would be playing.
His time off has been a choice for maintenance, not a necessity. In the playoffs, we’ll see a different Shaq, I’m convinced of it. I don’t worry about the Center position come playoff time. Perk/Shaq will be ready to go, and if we get anything from JO/Erden, it’s just icing on the cake.
SF is clearly a concern now, however.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
watching shaqs last 4 games
it’s clear the injury is still bothering him and needs the rest but he was still rebounding and blocking shots so im not really concerned about him as much
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Hope you guys are right about Shaq
Hopefully he is fine for the playoffs, but I think the next few games leading up to the All Star break are going to be a huge problem for the Celts. And, if the depth at the center position does not get healthy, many games after the break also. I know the hope is good health when the playoffs roll around, but that will likely mean a second or even third seed in the playoffs, if Doc has to keep resting the old and tired Celtics bodies.
JO alone makes it ~certain the team will not be 100%
I believe Shaq’s “injuries” are not serious, and probably not even injuries. He’s old, with various aches and pains, and I figure they’re saving his butt for the playoffs.
But there’s reasonably valid hope for Delonte, Quis and Erden to all come back ready to rock in the playoffs. At that point, we’ll be as good as we can be, sans JO. But JO was always expendable. The team was designed to easily withstand the loss of one backup big.
Bottom line: There’s reason to believe we will be ok for the playoffs. (The only factor other than health that can stop this team is the refs… and they’re unpredictable.)
I wouldn't mind Livingston
He can play 3 positions and can cause mismatches, imagine a healthy lineup of Delonte, Marquis and Livingston for the 2nd unit, other teams couldn’t counter. Jordan won’t trade him though, he won’t make any moves to make the C’s better and it’s not like the we have anything that Jordan wants in return.
we can try to trade Daniels, Nate, Wafer, JO, Bradley, Luke
see what can we get with any of this players.
when is the trade deadline? And why are so many people talking about trading JO?
I thought you couldn’t trade an injured player. Please let me know if I am wrong, but i thought that was the case. If he can get healthy before the deadline, let the talk commence.
You can trade injured players.
But good luck getting a team to want to take a guy who has barely played this year and remains to be seen if he can even help any team.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
JO is technically tradable, but not likely tradable.
The issue is less that he’s injured than the fact that his contract has another year on it.
Man this is a hospital
with so many injuries who knows if we can win the east.
If the injuries continue to mount, it will be a long shot
In my opinion, simply not having a dependable small forward to backup Pierce will mean that this team will get the second seed at best and more likely the third seed, behind Miami and Chicago. They simply cannot be expected to win a lot of games, especially against the really good teams, with the players currently available. Maybe they will shock the world and beat the Lakers and Miami, but if they have the same players in those two games as they had last night, I do not like their chances. Hopefully a second or third seed will be good enough to get through the east, but I believe that the east is going to be a much tougher run this year than last.
Really...
Suddenly the loss of Marquis Daniels is the difference between a Championship team and a bunch of scrubs who will be lucky to beat Miami?
Come on guys, I love Marquis, but the Cs chances this year never squarely rested on his shoulders. He helps the team no doubt, but it just means someone else needs to step up. Stop with all this doomsday stuff about how the team has no chance because BENCH players aren’t healthy.
Our starting five is intact, and as long as they stay healthy, this team can compete with anyone.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Image of Miami winning a chip scares me!
I can’t imagine that. The Heat are horrible! lol
but how long will they stay healthy if
pierce and ray have to constantly play 38 or more minutes because daniels is out, wafer cant defend and the backups cant score? thats more of a concern for me.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
So you are saying that the Celtics really don't need a bench?
I don’t get it. You need a solid 7-8 man rotation to win a championship. Without a dependable backup small forward, the Celtics do not have that.
No, I never said they don't need a bench.
I just said the talk is being blown out of proportion.
Someone will need to step up and give them some quality minutes at the 3 no doubt. But that need is lessened in the playoffs when Paul will play more minutes.
All I’m saying is just because Marquis went down, there’s no need to act like the world is over and Banner 18 is nothing but a pipe dream.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Unless they have a minimum of 8 guys who can contribute
They won’t win a championship. Not so much about Marquis, as about the situation the bench is in right now. we all hope they are healthy by the playoffs, but I have serious doubts.
So does every team.
And I do agree they need a quality bench. I’m just not willing to close the coffin on them just because Daniels is hurt right now.
We don’t know yet if he will be able to come back healthy, and you can’t mortgage the teams future by hitting the panic button right now. That kind of mentality has killed so many franchises over the years.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Antawn Jamison or Travor Ariza?
Snatch one of those two?
Both overrated, one doesnt play a position we need and the other is injured but also a “key cog” on their team.
All set
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 8, 2011 11:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
As a starter, he can also be shut down, and are you trading baby to get him, we dont need another pf?
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 8, 2011 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe.
It’s more likely with Daniels out, no doubt.
But Jamison is not the answer.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Do u think Danny will make a move?
Danny and Doc can be passive at times I doubt they will make a move.
but he also makes $13m
which starter are you trading to get him rondo or ray?
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on Feb 8, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t see the Celtics being successful throughout the reminder of the season with all the injuries to JO, Daniels, and Shaq with his constant knee issues. The Celtics need make moves now.
As we've said before...
The Celtics success has never rested solely on bench players. If the starting five is healthy, they can compete with anyone.
The issue comes down to your ability to manage those fives minutes, and still win games. This is where the injury has hurt our depth, and hurts the team. Playoffs is another story obviously, but we don’t want to see a repeat of last year.
So staying in the hunt for the top seed in the east is important, and becoming more difficult. That being said, Danny is not about to seriously hurt the future of this team, just to win a few more regular season games.
For hell or high water, Doc will manage the “Big 5” minutes, win or lose. Playoff success will be determined due to them, they are the most important. If the right deal can be made, that will add bench depth, and not significantly hurt the future of the team (i.e. taking on lousy contracts.) Great, he’ll make it happen. But that seems highly unlikely.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
So what do you want then?
Do you want him to pull a “Joe Dumars” saddle the team with bad contracts, poor decisions, and go from title contender to “hope to make the playoffs” by 2014. Do you need see what happened in Detroit?
Or maybe you’ll just hop off the bandwagon and go cheer for the Heat at that point.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Assuming you can convince JO to retire
Bundle his retiring/buyout contract with Nate and a pick if necessary for Prince or Igodala or Pietrus, again assuming all of the 3 are available. And pick up Sheed, but put his jewels in a vice until he promises to play himself into game shape from day 1, considering his long time off, desire to come back, and desire for a title it might work. And you still have Quisy when/if he comes back.
I could see Iggy being available and perfect for a bench scorer though a hefty price tag, but nice building block too.
Prince seems like he might be the easiest to get as they would love JOs buyout, hell Danny could reassure JO that we would pick him up off tge waiver wire to get it done if need be, and they would love to be rid of Prince who would probably enjoy playing with Sheed on a contender again.
Not sure Pietrus is the player to best fit tge PHO system, Nate would indeed be better and they too would love JOs buyout money off their roster, would we have to include Wafer? Please do. And what other junk would we have to take back in return?
Rockets arent doing anytging this year, maybe we can ply Battier off of them?
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 8, 2011 11:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Prince or Igodala sounds good
Pietrus, I’m not sure about. Pietrus is not a 3, but more a 2.
Her certainly has the size to be a 3...
And is a pretty solid defender. So not sure where you get this “He’s a 2” stuff from.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Prince or Igodala would be a better fit, but I don’t see Philly giving up Igodala because his team is playing good ball right now. Prince, maybe Det might give him up?
Possibly, but he's one hell of a trade asset.
Very good player, on an expiring deal. Problem is his contract is too big to make it happen easily, you’d have to shed some salary.
Detroit is going to want more for Prince than “Trade filler and a draft pick” which sadly is really all Boston can offer. Nate doesn’t really help that team which already had its “spark plug” scorer in Gordon, especially considering how much Nate has struggled. What else can you give up? Davis? We can’t really afford to lose him. Bradley? Harangody? Nothing but flashes of potential right now. JO has 2 years on his deal, so if you use to match the money, Detroit would basically be taking on more dead weight just to get rid of Prince.
Prince is going to expire anyway, they have no pressing need to get rid of him this year (not like they’re going to the playoffs anyway) so if they’re going to move him, they’re simply not going to take on non-expiring contracts that don’t help their team. No amount of draft picks (particularly Bostons, which will be near the bottom) is going to change that.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Forgot he was expiring.
So then can we send wine and women over to Houston and Phoenix to see who breaks with Battier/Pietrus 1st?
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 9, 2011 12:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Posey is the perfect fit
…does all the dirty defensive work, makes 3’s FT’s and knows system; it killed me when he left because he’d the perfect team defender WHICH IS WHAT IS NEEDED; i see the junk about Carmelo and Rip; we have scorers, we need a trench defender; Battier and Pietrus would work too; same type of player but new to a system.
Realistically though, I think we’re stuck with what’s left of our Roster….any rabbits in the hat Danny?.
You keep asking this question
No one is answering.
This entire thread is dedicated to our obvious need for backup help. I dont think people would post if they did not on some level agree. We unfortunately dont have many attractive pieces, so we may be slightly hamstrung, but we are generally confident in Danny’s ability to get us what we need.
Nobody is answering because your question is obvious, we all agree. But you keep siggesting unrealistic trades which is why people refute them. Come up with a good one and you will get positive responses.
And stop panicing dude.
by Warrior Spirit on Feb 9, 2011 1:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
danny has earned every dollar he gets paid and he will have to be on the hunt. we need a backupm 3 for sure because there is no guarantee quis is coming back. i think we lost the last game because nate could not cover livingston and i don’t know why doc did not try bradley on livingston for spot minutes.
Childress is rotting on Phoenix' bench
He’s got a long contract (ends in 14/15), so they’d jump at the chance to exchange him for JO. Childress’ game is a lot like that of Quis. JO for Childress works straight up.
We’re either going to have to take back bad contract(s), or throw in Bradley or a draft pick to get anybody decent.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Childress is a SG...
And not known as a great defender. He in no way solves the problem at SF depth, and his contract is a problem, Danny’s not going to lock up any contracts beyond 2012 unless it’s a player who will be valuable in the Post big 3 era. Childress isn’t that guy.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
He's played enough SF. He's a little bigger than Quis
He’s 6’8, 209. Quis is 6’6, 200.
As to going past 2012, it’d be ideal not to have to, if he can bring in somebody good enough. I still think you’re either going to have to take back a longer (bad) contract, or give up Bradley and/or pick(s). It’s one or the other probably, because nobody’s going to just give us a good player. Either way impacts the future.
That’s if he goes the trade route (likely). Banking on picking up a decent buyout guy is too risky. Picking up a D-league guy carries some risk too, because they just might not be good enough to give quality minutes.
Would be better if we could snag a guy with a contract no longer than next season, but if one is not available, it’s possible that Danny would take a contract that runs longer than that. Just depends on who the player is. Quis’ injury throws a monkey wrench into the best laid plans. Danny’s got some tough decisions to make. We’re built to win now, so whatever it takes.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
You make a good point.
I just don’t think Childress is “good enough” as you put it to be a starter on the team once Ray Allen retires. So he’s just wasted money there with a contract that takes money away from who you can acquire in 2013.
Danny’s going to have to wait this out and see what happens before Feb 24. Some teams may soften their stance on expiring players if they run the risk of getting nothing for them.
I mean if your HOU, and no team comes biting for Battier, is Boston’s low first round pick better than nothing? Ya, probably. But they’re obviously going to wait till the last possible minute to see if any other team will have them a better draft pick.
Just for fun, this could potentially work, and makes some sense:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4edtn9c
If HOU trades Brooks (which they’re rumored to be fed up with him lately) you could do worse than having Nate as a back up to Lowry. Celtics add a draft pick, and cash considerations, to cover some of the money owed to JO, and Hou ends up with a useful back up PG, a draft pick, and assuming Boston covers a considerable chunk of change, doesn’t lose much $ in the deal overall.
The tough part would be getting Wyc to sign off on basically paying out the ass this year, as they’d probably need to cover damn near all of the money owed to JO next year to make Hou do this. It’s going to be really hard to convince a guy already paying close yo 90mil this year, to go and open his wallet for another 6-7mil to bring in a back up SF.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Your trade proposal would definitely be nice for us. If we could some how get Brooks included in the deal, that would be beyond ideal. Probably would require
The thing is, I think the Rockets love Battier for being a good player, and a really high quality veteran presence. I bet they’d like to just resign him next year, though I’d love to snag him, too.
Houston has a strange roster. Yao will be off the books next year. Then they’ve got only two longer contracts of old guys (Miller and Scola). The rest of their roster is pretty young, so I could see them going the youth route, and therefore maybe being willing to part with Battier.
I actually sort of hate to give up Bradley at this point, because, I know he didn’t show it with the big club, but the kid oozes talent. I watched his last 3 games for Maine, and despite boneheaded passes, and a less than mature floor game, the talent is just obvious.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Brooks doesn't want to be a backup.
That is supposedly the center of the issue in HOU right now.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Totally understandable for Brooks to think that.
He’s a pretty talented guy and could absolutely start for a number of teams.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Oh, and forget to mention.
Supposedly Battier had already asked for an extension, and the Rockets refused. So that would seem to contradict the “The thing is, I think the Rockets love Battier for being a good player, and a really high quality veteran presence. I bet they’d like to just resign him next year” thought.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
You're right, Sizzlack, about them not extending him
I had no idea Houston was taking that stance. Check this out:
With the league’s collective bargaining agreement set to expire after the season and the legitimate threat of a lockout, the Rockets, according to general manager Daryl Morey, “just aren’t doing extensions.”
Battier, who has never been a free agent and would prefer not to be one next summer, was given that discouraging message from Morey some time ago.
“We’ve been trying to get something done (with an extension) the last couple of years, and I’ve been held at bay — to put it nicely,” Battier told FanHouse during training camp. “I understand where they’re coming from. I understand the business side, more so than most players. I’ve been around long enough that I understand the business aspect of it, so it is what it is.”
So Battier could well be available, but unfortunately the contracts we have to match up with him run for two years. There’d have to be a substantial sweetener for them to take on more money, and it looks as though they don’t want to.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Ok... I will only say briefly that this is the C's own fault for not going out to grab Ryan Gomes in the offseason...
…so now we are stuck with these “realistic” (aka their teams would at least listen to the offer) options:
Posey 2 yrs 7 mil
Childress 5 years 6 mil
Pietrus 1 year 5 mil
Anthony Parker 1 year 3 mil
Battier 1 yr 7 mil
and then a whole bunch of other guys who don’t play much on other teams and whose games I just don’t know enough about… I’d love to say Tayshaun was realistic, but we just have nothing to offer Detroit for the 12 million expiring contract they’d be forfeiting. Ditto is probably true for Battier, but I just wanted to dream a little…
Phoenix (who has at least 4 SFs) and Cleveland (desperate) seem like the most likely trade partners from this list. I doubt DA is eager to go out and get Posey or Allen back … but you never know – he brought back Toine…
by milt palacio's shot on Feb 8, 2011 12:19 PM EST reply actions
Battier would be a dream scenario.
I just don’t see how that make it happen.
Then again, if no other teams come calling (young, non contending teams aren’t looking for an old timer like Battier that’s for sure) and Houston really wants to get something out of him before he expires (even a low 1st round pick) then maybe, just maybe.
Problem is JO’s deal would need to be used to make the $ work, and that one has an extra year on it. Houston is not going to value Boston’s 1st round pick next year (which will be near the bottom) enough to take on another 6mil of JO’s deal. This only works if JO decided his knee is not going to improve enough, and retired.
There’s potential that a third team, who may have a young player Houston is interested in, and that has either cap space or a trade exception to take on JO’s contract, and might be willing to do it for a couple draft picks (maybe boston 1st round, houstons 2nd rounder?) could facilitate this. But it’s a complicated deal, Danny certainly has his work cut out for him, that’s for sure.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
By the way...
This is a time I REALLY wish they had gotten a trade exception for Rasheed’s contract. Having a 6mil exception right now would be HUGE, allowing you to take on a contract like Battier without having to send a player out, or only having to add a filler like Wafer to do it.
The main thing holding up this deal is the extra year on JO’s contract, since HOU isn’t extending Battier anyway, they’d probably have no problem grabbing a free draft pick by swapping one expiring contract for another.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
that's not quite what the 'trade exception' was about
They can still trade away Sheed’s 6M contract.
What a trade exception would have given them was the ability to trade it while taking on only a smaller amount in salaries, with the agreement to take on the rest (to a total of 100% + $100,000) at a later time. For example if granted the exception at the time they could have traded Sheed’s 6M to someone in return for a 3M player. They then would have had to take on another 3M player in trade (say, for a draft pick) within the time frame of the exception (usually within that year, I think).
They were not given the exception – probably because Sheed’s contract was technically for two more years. But they can still trade it in its entirety with some gentleman’s agreement that Sheed would then submit retirement papers, which would expire the contract immediately.
Sheed retired.
They can’t trade his contract, it doesn’t exist.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Do you have a link
that shows he filed retirement papers?
With all due respect...
no Pietrus, no Jamario Moon, no Posey, no Anthony Parker, no Childress, no trading anyone on the C’s roster.
Waiting for a buyout may take forever.
Not sure where DeVean George is or Jarvis Hayes, but, they sure can play the 3.
In case of a buyout, Jamison would look good in green and bring instant offense.
"I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end."
--- Larry Bird
by Army_of_One_Nation(Celtic's Nation) on Feb 8, 2011 12:28 PM EST reply actions
Jamison will never be bought out.
Way too much money on that deal.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
In case of a buyout, Jamison would look good in green and bring instant offense.
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Did you watch the 2010 playoffs? You do not want Jamison on your team. He’s not a big game player. When the going gets tough, he’ll simply fall down and fart.
I think...
it was more of how the Celtics played defense on him.
So, hypothetically, if he does get bought out, you don’t think he could help down the stretch?
"I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end."
--- Larry Bird
by Army_of_One_Nation(Celtic's Nation) on Feb 9, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t like idea of trading Nate, this season he often doesn’t show what he can do, I just feeling that if we trade Nate it will be a very bad move. I just have feeling that he will explode in playoffs.
He’s energy from the bench combined with BBD is incredibly huge. Don’t trade Nate, I just have a feeling that it would be mistake. Anyone has same thoughts?
Also I don’t think anyone wants JO.
Heck no
Trade Nate, Doco Rivers won’t let him play his game …….. package him with Pierce and go after Melo ……..
I would ban you if i could. Trade our captain whos been nothing but loyal to the celtics,dedicating his whole career to this franchise and who is having a career year for a ball hog scorer? Surely you can’t be serious.
I’de rather seem them try their hearts out and fail in the playoffs then to lose pierce and win it with a step in melo. That’s absolute nonsense.
Wouldn't work anyway
Melo couldn’t possibly do what PP does on D, with this team. Not this year, anyway… and probably not ever.
Other familiar D-League names
Mario West?
Marcus Landry?
As Jeff points out, we’d have to free up a roster spot for any signing. Barring a trade, this means releasing someone. Is releasing Wafer for any D-Leaguer really an upgrade?
Free agents??
I can only think of Rodney Carney, Jarvis Hayes, Alonzo Gee, and Devean george idk who to release to get one of these guys though
agree 100% re Bradley on Livingston
One area where I think Doc is really weak is matchups. KC JOnes was the master of matchups and he took advantage of every mis-match he could. Doc, in his desire to share the wealth and play team ball, rarely takes advantages of match ups. Once Jackson went out of the game Pierce should have seen teh ball on every possession. Conversely , on defense he should have recognized that nate could not guard livingston. Last night was the perfect opp to give bradley some run and doc as usual wasn’t bold enough to try something new.
Ya, nate and Rondo couldn't bother Livingston at all.
It definitely would have been interesting to see what Bradley could have done, he’s got a bit more length than either of those guys.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
can't say as I disagree with that
it is hindsight since I also can’t say that it occurred to me during the game.
But it would indeed have made some sense to try the kid in that situation.
Trade for Rip
We need Rip the numbers can take care of themselves, get rid Daniels , Wafer and also Nate …..
He's owed 3 years and over 30 million.
No way Danny’s going to saddle the team with that kind of contract for a back up. Plus he’s more of a SG anyway, a bit small to guard bigger SFs in the post, so he doesn’t really solve the teams problems.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
That's a drop in the bucket
6’7" SG who cares offense wins games ……..
And defense wins championships.
It’s that kind of attitude which ruins teams. Look what happened to the Pistons.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Would be interesting. Here's another one
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4zcyt26
Rip , McGrady, and Will Bynum for JO, Nate, and Bradley.
JO and Nate have two years, while Rip and Bynum have 3, so they get out of their third year contracts, plus they get a young guy with a lot of talent in Bradley. We get a way better than average backup for Ray in Rip, and we get a pretty good backup to PP in McGrady. Bynum can play some reserve PG.
Probably never happen, but that could solve a lot of problems right there.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
And create a lot of problems in the future.
We basically become Detroit, v 2.0 in 2013.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
It can take a hell of a long time to be in contention for a championship
It could be another 10 years before we have any legit shot at a championship, so you have to capitalize on your limited window. I think that would be an excellent trade for us.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
This is the mentality that doomed the Pistons.
Maximize opportunities, while minimizing risks, you have to strike a balance.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
We still have a legit shot. They didn't.
You’d sacrifice opportunities these next 2 years for the future? Penny wise and pound foolish. Legit championship windows don’t come around that often (We need to relearn this lesson after our 20 year drought?)
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Really?
Cause they were in the ECF for five straight years, up until 2008. And then as the players declined and the obscene contracts they saddled themselves with, and poor decisions they made (Billups for Iverson) well… the rest is history.
And the lesson from the 20 year drought should tell us you don’t make those kind of moves. That’s exactly what they did for all of the 90s and early 2000s. Chris Wallace and Pitino were constantly looking for the quick fix, bad contracts for declining players abounded (Ricky Davis, Vin Baker, Gary Payton… do we need to keep going?) with no thought of the future.
This is what caused the problems for 20 years, don’t kid yourself into thinking anything else.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
They already were mediocrities by the time they did Billups for Iverson
Many of the deals done during the drought were indeed stupid, mostly before Ainge, though he had a few questionable moves too. Mainly, Ainge was about building assets to cash in when the time was right. Well, the time was right and he cashed in. If you think we’re still in a championship window, the time is still right.
The fundamental difference between now and the 20 year drought is that we are legitimate championship contenders now, and we never once were before summer of 07, so there’s a world of difference between the two scenarios. So if you can get a player who puts you over the top now, you do it and not concern yourself with two years from now.
Ideally, you’d get a player or players whose contracts expire after next season, but I wouldn’t let that get in the way of the much bigger picture, which is winning a championship or two in these next two seasons. See the forest, not the trees.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Bottom line hypothetical, Sizzlack
If you could get a player that you thought would put you over the top for a championship, but his contract ran longer than next year and he was already in his 30s, would you do it? Or would you value salary flexibility in two years more? That seems to be the fundamental issue that we’re discussing. I would do it if I thought said player would put us over the top.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Well, hypothetically, of course I would.
But that’s just chasing the holy grail. It just doesn’t exist.
There is no 1 player out there right now, nor is there ever, in the history of the NBA that is instant Championship.
There are so many other factors that come into play, you don’t know what ANY trade is going to do to your already existing chemistry. So if you pull the trigger, it needs to be the perfect deal.
A guy like Rip, who’s contract is obscene, who we don’t really know exactly how he’ll fit, who is clearly declining, and at the least, certainly isn’t a “Boom, championship” type player (not that that player even exists) just is not worth taking on that contract.
So hypothetically, if such a player existed as you mentioned, sure I’d do it. But short of Bill Russell discovering the fountain of youth with Larry Bird and lacing them up again; you’re going to have a very hard time convincing any such player that “puts you over the top” is currently available.
And if you start trying to argue to me that Rip is that guy, I’m probably going to lose my mind.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I don't know that Rip is that guy
… but he might be. The same move that would be insane for a rebuilding team (bringing in a vet at the expense of developing youth) can be a good move for a championship level team. Our bench is pretty anemic lately, with only Baby really contributing anything positive. I realize that we’ve got a lot of injuries, but Quis might not come back at all this year. Our talent falls off a cliff once Ray or Paul exit the game. At least with Rip, he’s much better than any of our other 2-3s, and he’d be a pretty big upgrade over Nate and our non-existent backup 3.
I won’t argue strenuously for bringing him in, but I’d not be displeased at all, particularly if he came attached to McGrady (surprisingly not having a fork sticking out of his back), who could back up PP. Having those two guys backing up Ray and Paul would be huge upgrades to what we’ve presently got, and two years from now be damned.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
And Rip takes plenty of those too.
Ya, lets definitely trade for an aging 2 guard to play BACK UP minutes, who can’t defend stronger SFs, is a streaky at best shooter, and had 3 years and 30mil left on his deal.
This is a GREAT idea. Get out of here with this junk from the Chris Wallace school of NBA management.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Better than most
He’s better than most coming off the bench
Not 30mil for 3 years better.
Not even close.
But that’s enough of this argument, as it will clearly go nowhere.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Dudes, you all are offerring trades with JO. But have you considered that no one wants JO? Which team would take him? No one.
Only teams with players whose contracts are longer than his.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Or you have to sweeten the pot with Bradley and/or pick(s)
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
good point
Richard Hamilton can probably be had for JO and expiring contracts, but then you have Richard Hamilton in 2013…
this helps the lakers more than it helps Boston but its an option.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4kto88b
Balkman and Barnes can both play 3 and 4 while Ratliff can help with injury woes at the center position.
SF List
1. Battier
2. Moon was left off
3. Ariza
4. Childress
5. T Allen (SG)
6. Tony Gaffney
7. Dahnty Jones
8. Derrick Byars
9. Ronald Dupree
10. Ivan Johnson
11. Joe Alexander
12. Marcus Landry
Is it possible to just sign and not trade?
…i mean probably a pick up from the D-League or any unsigned free agent? We just need a decent sub for PP that can give him enough rest anyway… we’re not talking about someone who’ll lead our 2nd team or whatever… as much as the team’s been injury-plagued… well, we still are the #1 team in the east, right? ;)
Yes, but you'd have to waive someone.
The most likely contract would then be Wafer, since he only has one year.
If they go with a signing (i.e. Sims out of the D-league, or a veteran that gets bought out) they’ll certainly wait until after the trade deadline.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
We're stuck
…because we don’t have any assets to move for help. Baby won’t be moved cause he plays well in big games and we can’t afford to deplete our size depth. Who else do we have that any sane team would want in return other than Baby? Danny will have to wait and see who gets bought out. Aside from a back up 3 we could use some consistent scoring off the bench so Doc doesn’t feel the pressure to rush PP and Ray back into the game and thus continuing to pile up the minutes on them. I don’t see that now from the current bench players.
What about..
What about Lebron James? He can play the the 1 AND the 3, our two problematic positions.
....
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not…
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Sign an unsigned free agent forward...
…who can rebound, is a decent defender and ideally at least 6-7 or above. We have enough guys in the 2 spot. Just good quality minutes to rest the Truth. The 2nd teams’ offense will be taken cared of by baby, nate and the return of d. west ;)
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on CelticsBlog
Related FanShots on CelticsBlog
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
