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2008 Reboot?

A fun thought occurred to me and I thought I'd share.  You can argue all day long about who "won" each trade (and we do!) but at the end of the day all that matters is if you have a better team now than when the changes began.  That's debatable as well, but I wanted to take it a step further.  So I got to thinking about the 2008 team and I couldn't help but draw some comparisons.  Without taking this too seriously, lets go to the tale of the tape!

Star-divide

Of course all of this is said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.  This isn't a fantasy team you can just throw together and tally up the points.  The generalizations and blatant stereotypes above don't account for important things like chemistry and familiarity.  This team has 4 new players (if you count Delonte West - 5 if Jermaine ever returns) to work into the regular rotation with just 24 games left on the schedule.  On the other hand, that Championship squad hit the ground running after training camp, so you never know what they'll be able to do in a short amount of time.

I think my chief concern is on defense.  The fabled defensive system that turned Ray Allen and Paul Pierce into respected defenders will be put to the test - in particular after adding guys (Murphy, Krstic, maybe Green) that have never been known as plus defenders elsewhere.  Still, as long as Kevin Garnett is pounding his chest in a Boston jersey, the team will at least have an edge to them come playoff time.

This team will stand or fall on its own merits, but sometimes it is fun to compare and contrast the team against certain benchmarks - in this case with the team that achieved the goal this year's squad is striving for.

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Good Comparison...

This roster is definately shaping up like the 08 team
Lets hope the playoffs this season will end like 2008 as well

by EF37 on Mar 1, 2011 10:50 PM EST reply actions  

So is brewer comin?

"We have to do the impossible, but it is possible." -Kevin Garnett

by afable0102 on Mar 1, 2011 10:54 PM EST reply actions  

if he does, will be deep at all 5 spots. wow.

"We have to do the impossible, but it is possible." -Kevin Garnett

by afable0102 on Mar 1, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

"Avery Bradley - so far a better driver than Gabe Pruitt - in more ways than one"

Nice one Jeff, very nice.

The only discouraging thing about this game to me was that Boston was without KG and Perk. Having those two guys back would make them so much stronger, that I am not sure we can win against them.

by letsgoblue86 on Mar 1, 2011 10:56 PM EST reply actions  

+1

Gold. I choked on water when I read it.

by itsgabriel on Mar 1, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Pierce

As much as I love the Truth and he manages to be remarkably efficient on offense, I don’t really think his defense is quite where it was in 2008. In ’08 he had not only the focus on being the lockdown defender but also seemed to have fresher legs and tighter defense in the 3rd quarter, etc. (he always turns it up in the last 5 min). This is one of the reasons (in addition to Tony being gone) that I think precipitated the move for Green

by next boston gm on Mar 1, 2011 10:57 PM EST reply actions  

well, its difficult to compare numbers across seasons

but comparing 2011 Paul to 2008 Paul, the current version is doing slightly better at grabbing Defensive Rebounds (15.6% vs 14%), is getting a tad fewer steals (1.6% vs 1.9%), is blocking more shots (1.3% vs 1.0%) and has an identical Defensive Efficiency Rating (100 pts per 100 possessions).

Overall, I’d say Pierce is playing at least as well defensively as he did in 2008. Certainly not much worse.

Offensively, he’s playing notably better now. His shooting efficiencies are better, he is committing fewer turnovers and his offensive efficiency rating is up slightly. His assists are down, but that’s mainly a reflection of Doc’s increased trust and reliance on Rondo to run the offense. Doc doesn’t put Pierce in as ‘point forward’ as often.

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Mar 2, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

But what about the competition?

Quick analysis…Miami is a big upgrade above the ’08 Cavs…Orlando is about the same as the "08 Magic maybe better…Atlanta not as good as the "08 Hawks…Chicago is a huge upgrade from the "08 Bulls and they scare the @#$% out of me…and the Knicks are vastly improved over the "08 NY team.

If we get through all of them we have the West to worry about…LA does not bother me as much as they have in the past…Dallas is good but Boston is better in a 7 game series…then comes the Spurs…they are very scary.

I think your comparison to the "08 Celtics is right on the money and straight up this years team could compete and possibly win. My concern is the upgrade of the others in both the East and the West. However, bring it on and lets see what happens. And lets hope we get a chance to see how we can compete with however is left standing in the West.

by PACF on Mar 1, 2011 10:58 PM EST reply actions  

Games Missed due to injury and newbies

Shaq, JO, Delonte, KG injuries ….that is certainly a downgrade from 2008 – IF THAT TRENDS CONTINUES we have some real work to do that would be much tougher than 2008

Newbies might be a big issue……ALL OF THESE NEW GUYS KRSTIC, GREEN, ARE TOTALLY UNPROVEN in our system with our players…and quite honestly I don’t think any of them are that good

Of course I hope for the best…..and I believe in the Big 4 and their commitment to winning ….but beyond the big 4 I think injuries and newbies could be bad….It could be great as well if these things turn out fine …but THAT’S WHY THEY PLAY THE GAMES….proof is in the pudding…. I have hope and will watch as always cheering on my team but….

More Realistic Negative flavored Kool-Aid please!!!!…my glass is more than half empty….LOL

Is it Soup Yet?

by Master Po on Mar 1, 2011 11:03 PM EST reply actions  

here's a refill. i put some alcohol in it for you to help warm you up to the new kids.

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!

by remembering9ergods on Mar 1, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Right on target

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Mar 2, 2011 5:24 AM EST up reply actions  

yup, forgot him

maybe lump him in with the West vs. House/Cassell comparison? I don’t know.

Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark

by Jeff Clark on Mar 2, 2011 5:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice job, Jeff. Very funny and hits on my two key concerns

The 2008 team was together from training camp – with the additions of pj and cassell. This team has 24 games to gel and become a championship team.

Second is the defense. It has to get better, as last night was atrocious.

by vinnie on Mar 1, 2011 11:48 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks Jeff

Made me laugh. Look out Hollinger!

by Tommypointz on Mar 1, 2011 11:48 PM EST reply actions  

Good stuff

On an unrelated note I’ve got a question about 10 day contracts. Are teams required to keep the player for 10 days or can they waive him if they find somebody better during the 10 days?

by King Coebra on Mar 1, 2011 11:56 PM EST reply actions  

they can waive any player at any time.

They just have to keep paying them whatever amount of the contract is guaranteed unless the player agrees to a ‘buyout’ of the remainder of the contract.

Those hold true for ALL contracts.

So, to answer your question, they can give a guy a 10 day contract and cut him after just one day. They’ll still owe him pay for the other 9 days, though. Note that NBA ‘10-day’ contracts always span a minimum of 3 games, so in theory could last longer than 10 days.

A team can sign a player to up to two consecutive 10-day contracts. After that, they must sign the player to a contract that runs to the end of the season.

10-day contracts usually are pretty small by NBA contract standards, like around $40K, but that represents more than a whole season of pay for the typical D-Leaguer. So teams can afford to just cut the player whenever and eat the remainder of the contract.

"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.

by mmmmm on Mar 2, 2011 1:46 AM EST up reply actions  

“Jeff Green – supposedly a younger, more athletic James Posey – better on offense, not as established on D”

Posey’s D was a giant part of winning it all in 2008 and this team was lacking in toughness before Danny’s freakout now we really have none.

by calc on Mar 2, 2011 12:05 AM EST reply actions  

also

posey was remarkably consistent in the clutch for a role player. if he got a look at a 3 with 5 seconds or less on the shot clock, he more often than not made it even with a hand in the face

by Mooose on Mar 2, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

NEW CREW

All you doubters must not be looking at the full picture. Perk is hurt more than anyone thinks, he was most likely not going to help us this year and was prob gone come years end anyway. I really cant believe how many lost faith in DA when he is the one that has us in the position to win now and I would say he knows more about this then anyone.

by C's244 on Mar 2, 2011 12:15 AM EST reply actions  

I think this year's version of Doc is better too.

He’s now more of a proven commodity, so the players are more confident of him. That will help in bringing the new guys faster into the Celtic system.

Very nice piece, Jeff. Especially now that most of the tension has dissipated.

by no kidding on Mar 2, 2011 12:31 AM EST reply actions  

Good point.

I think Doc’s been getting better every year.

by clover on Mar 2, 2011 6:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Motivating players/making them buy in; and the X's and O's

Doc is already good with the former and getting better each year with the latter.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Mar 2, 2011 6:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Life after the Big 3

Assuming all newcomers stay with the C’s, you’d have a transition five of Krstic, Murphy, Green, Brewer (if he comes), and Rondo. Off the bench, you’d have sixth man Davis, plus Delonte and Avery. Not a bad crew to ‘holdover’ the C’s title hopes beyond the Big 3, until new talents arrive. That’s why, beyond the initial disgust over the Perk deal, I think DA’s deals augurs well for the C’s, for this year and the next ones!

by SoxCeltsPats on Mar 2, 2011 12:31 AM EST reply actions  

this team is better than the 2008 team.

This is by far the deepest team we’ve had since garnett and allen arrived.
Trading perk has given us a bench that far surpasses any other bench in the NBA and a healthy shaq is just as good if not better that perk starting at the 5 spot.
What alot of die hard fans aren’t seeing is that perkins was simply nothing near his old self this season- and he wasn’t going to get there by the time the playoffs/finals come round. I’d even go as far to say he can no longer guard dwight howard 1v1 because of his lack of vertical/lateral movement (and I think stats also support this argument to an extent when looking at his last few games vs dominant nba big men).
We have 2 of oklahoma’s starters on our bench. We have glen davis and delonte west as well, with troy murphy spreading the floor+ rebounding.
This bench could start for some lower ranked teams in the NBA.
Krstic and Green both have playoff experience and took it to the Lakers HARD, no doubt they (including murphy) will fit in quite well with our defensive system- anyone who has to put up with KG, pierce and doc rivers yelling repeatedly to cover switches and rotations will learn quite fast that their previous efforts on other teams were not goof enough.
I think another important factor is the rest that our starters can get before the playoffs now too. That and jermaine oneal saying that he’ll be back before the playoffs means we have a monstrous inside presence even without perkins.
I am soooo happy we made this trade, and i was one of perks biggest fans.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture and the long run.

by Chambers on Mar 2, 2011 12:59 AM EST reply actions  

To think that both Murphy and West were also starters last season. Whew.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Mar 2, 2011 5:28 AM EST up reply actions  

"Defense wins CHAMPIONSHIP"

Our offense may improved with all this tradings and acquisitions. However, our frontcourt and last line of defense weakens without our main pole post beast – PERKINS!

Teams are no longer scared of us!!!

Banner 18th is not attainable without our very strong and reliable DEFENSE!!! The team (especially new players) must focus and committ on this.

by thebat on Mar 2, 2011 1:06 AM EST reply actions  

wow...last time I checked our D hasn't missed a beat even without Russell...este Perk!!

And our offense sputtered against the Fakers in game 6 and 7 of the Finals. DA knows this, we played the Fakers well and our D was sharp, but evenwith a good D, if you go into a scoring drought , you won’t win anyways. Our Offense will be better and out D would still be OK… that in itself is a recipe for success.

"No I’m not KG. Not at all, but I’m Big Baby Glen Davis from LSU, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I’m not the Big Ticket. I’m the Ticket Stub. Don’t count the Ticket Stub out. You might need the ticket to get in the game, but you leave with the ticket stub, because you’ll never forget this game."

by bopna on Mar 2, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions  

really? how easily you've forgotten that game 7!

That game 7 we were leading almost until half of 4th qtr. We didn’t have any trouble with our offense until that end part. However, our main problem was on defense right from the start. That is why everybody is saying that if only Perkins was playing it could have been us winning 2010. Have you forgotten about that already!?

by thebat on Mar 2, 2011 5:43 AM EST up reply actions  

The interior defense with the current roster is not good

Shaq and JO make it better, but shaq really can’t move and can’t defend the pick and roll. Plus, still no guarantee that either of these guys will be healthy.

by vinnie on Mar 2, 2011 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Ditto

And If Shaq and JO have missed these many games in the regular season, what makes us think they will last through all of the playoff series(imagine a 7 games series with Chicago or Miami with those two guys in the middle) I still could have counted on Perk to last the series than the O’neals at this point int their careers.

by missyP on Mar 2, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah

Al Jefferson just scored 28 points and had 19 rebounds against us-Garnett is going to have to start trying to check Boozer or Howard now.

by calc on Mar 2, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

2008 beats 2010

Posey contributed way more than Jeff Green will contribute in `11

Perk {prior to injuries} was way better than Shaq is today

KG has lost more than “half-a-step” in 3 years

Baby & Powe in `08 were better than the current Baby {BBD peaked in `09}

by Title 18 on Mar 2, 2011 1:38 AM EST reply actions  

I don’t agree with anything you said, but I especially don’t agree with that last point. Baby is having a career year across the board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Davis_(basketball)

by itsgabriel on Mar 2, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Davis is playing more of a perimeter game

this reminds me of how he complained in the beginning of the season that he didn’t have a defined role now Green is pretty much here to swing between 3 & 4 which was his spot and he somehow is going to be asked to fill in for the hole Perk left.

by calc on Mar 2, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with much of this

Baby may have better stat this year, but he is an offense killer and a black hole.

by vinnie on Mar 2, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

how can you say how much green will contribute?

he has two games under his belt. as for the article at large, i agree with most of it, but ray is having a better year than ’08.

by harrmonica on Mar 2, 2011 2:01 AM EST reply actions  

Lets not judge Green yet...He may not have scored much in the 2 games he has played

but neither has he been anything negative during those 2 games either.. remember that doc is still figuring how to incorporate the guy. his IQ though is already beyond expectations so much so Doc has trusted him to play more than 25 min the last game and that will surely improve with practice under his belt.

2010 team is better than 08 IMO but so has the competition vastly improved as well. We will still go deep in the Playoffs and i definitely like our chances of winning it all this yr as long as everyone is healthy.

"No I’m not KG. Not at all, but I’m Big Baby Glen Davis from LSU, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I’m not the Big Ticket. I’m the Ticket Stub. Don’t count the Ticket Stub out. You might need the ticket to get in the game, but you leave with the ticket stub, because you’ll never forget this game."

by bopna on Mar 2, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Oneals

I must say it is up to the 2 Oneals to up their game come playoffs or we’re screwrd in the middle. Syempre, I won’t be counting much on Troy Murphy nor Krystic in the playoffs. Dapat KG should now double up on defense.

by thebat on Mar 2, 2011 5:36 AM EST reply actions  

+1

Pinoy :)

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Mar 2, 2011 5:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Haha.

Pilipino rin ako :).

The day you take complete responsibility for yourself, the day you stop making any excuses, thats the day you start to the top.
-O.J. Simpson

by LancerQ on Mar 2, 2011 8:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Corey Brewer added.......

This will be just as good or maybe better than 2008. Do I miss something here?……….

by TSV on Mar 2, 2011 7:14 AM EST reply actions  

I love the positive things people say about Perk being traded but...

In the 2008 NBA Finals, in my opinion, the only reason Cs could play small is Bynum wasn’t there. Now that he’s healthy, we needed Bynum. So I don’t really think we could play small. Though I’m not mad about the trade. Just wanted to remind people that and not to relax because of the small roster possibility.

The day you take complete responsibility for yourself, the day you stop making any excuses, thats the day you start to the top.
-O.J. Simpson

by LancerQ on Mar 2, 2011 8:14 AM EST reply actions  

*Perkins(instead of Bynum[second one]).

The day you take complete responsibility for yourself, the day you stop making any excuses, thats the day you start to the top.
-O.J. Simpson

by LancerQ on Mar 2, 2011 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Except the competition in 2010 trumps that of 2008 by far.

We only had Cleveland, Orlando and those persky Hawks to worry about in 2008. Fast forward to 2010, and boy is it going to be interesting in the East. seed 1 through 6 is crazy, and particularly that Chicago team imho.

But I agree if the analysis is just celtics 2008 vs celtics 2010, hands down we are better. (But so is the competition).

by missyP on Mar 2, 2011 10:37 AM EST reply actions  

QUestion:

DOes n e one question/wonder how good the boston medical staff is….we got guys going down every week. I know we got some older guy but cmon… Just saying

by Kgwillkillyou on Mar 2, 2011 1:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

ESPN- Brewer will be a Mav

Free-agent swingman Corey Brewer is closing in on a deal with the Dallas Mavericks, according to sources briefed on the discussions.

Brewer was pursued by several teams after negotiating his release Monday from the New York Knicks, but sources said that the Mavericks have offered a multi-year deal to Brewer that starts in the $2 million range.

Two sources said that the deal, barring an unexpected late snag, was on course to be agreed to in principle later Wednesday. But Brewer can’t actually sign with the Mavericks until he clears waivers.

by brianceltfan on Mar 2, 2011 4:49 PM EST reply actions  

we’ve got the pieces. now, we have to rest the big 4 and get the new guys in. with some exceptions depending on the game, i would like to see the big 4 getting 30 mins. a game. they need to get their legs for the playoffs. tom thibs and the bulls are the team that scares me the most.

by nazzbo on Mar 2, 2011 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

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