Celtics' Bench Now Has its Own Big Three
by Jimmy Toscano on Mar 17, 2011 6:38 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintWe got a glimpse of it in Wednesday night's 92-80 win over the Indiana Pacers
No, not Troy Murphy's ups.
I'm talking about the bench, led by Jeff Green - the Celtics' new second-unit anchor.
Once again, the C's starters came out flat, allowing the Pacers to take control of the lead and go up by as many as seven points in the first quarter before the second unit started to filter into the game.
It certainly wasn't the start they wanted. Doc Rivers has stressed over the last few weeks that the team needs a good start to games, because right now the bench just can't be relied on - the new guys don't have enough experience with each other to come back from leads, maintain leads, or build upon leads.
But last night was a different story.
Down five points to start the second quarter, the C's brought out a lineup of Carlos Arroyo, Delonte West, Jeff Green, Troy Murphy, and Glen Davis.
Aside from Davis, nobody in that lineup had played more than ten games on the team this season, and West hadn't played with anyone but Davis this season to that point (he played with Green back in Seattle).
There weren't many reasons to be thrilled at the C's chances of making a comeback in the second quarter.
But they did.
Why?
Because they're getting it. It seems to finally be coming together for the new and improved bench. Maybe this is what Danny Ainge was thinking about when he shipped Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson to Oklahoma City for Green and Nenad Krstic, and then traded Marquis Daniels, Semih Erden, and Luke Harangody for picks.
He was thinking about healthy, capable players filling the spots and providing the extra whatever-it-needs-to-be on any given night.
Sure, it was going to take time. As Kevin Garnett said many times last season, "Nobody said this was going to be easy."
It hasn't been this season either, but maybe the biggest bumps in the road are finally in the rear mirror. Maybe the team can finally look at what they have, wait for Shaquille O'Neal to return, and be happy with the product going into the playoffs.
If they can get the type of production in the playoffs that they got from Jeff Green and Friends tonight, they'll be in good shape.
Down 23-19 with a little over eight minutes to play in the second quarter, Green went off to score ten straight points for the Celts. But it may have been the way in which he did it that was even more impressive. Green drove to the hoop and scored, scored from beyond the arc, and scored from the line - capping off his performance by outrunning everyone on the court, forcing a clear path foul out of AJ Price.
He ended the night with 19 points on 6-9 shooting and added three rebounds and three blocks.
"I just go out there and just be aggressive," Green said of his role on the team. "I just go out there and play hard. You play hard and it makes up for a lot of things and leads to some good things. Lately its been going great for us, so the second unit I think we need to continue to do that."
While the starting unit boasts a Big Three of their own, the bench looks to add their version of it soon with the return of a healthy West.
"Well they're more talented now, number one," Rivers said. "The talent is growing with that second unit. You've got Jeff Green in your second unit, Delonte West in your second unit, Glen Davis. Pretty good second unit. It's nice to see them all on the floor. But even tonight where there were times when we really were not running anything, we were moving the ball, and the ball was just finding the open guy. And if you play with the right spirit like that, you don't need a lot of offensive sets."
West returned to the court after spraining his ankle during practice a couple weeks ago. He's missed most of the season due to suspension, a broken wrist, and a sprained ankle. While he admits he's not 100-percent, and won't be for the remainder of the season, he still adds an extra element that will only help the Celts going forth.
"They were great today," Pierce said of the bench. "We had a good shoot-around this morning, just going over things. The addition of Delonte really gave them some real good vibes. He's such a poised player, even though he has been out for so long you can just see how he kind of smoothes out the second unit. Especially with his passing, his defense, and his hustle. That unit, they are coming together."
In all, the bench accounted for 39 points against the Pacers, the most points scored off the bench since the trade deadline. Don't expect it to be a one-time deal either. The more they practice, which they have been doing even on typical off days, the better they'll get. And the more they play in games together, the quicker they'll pick up each other's tendencies.
"The way we played by attacking the basket and finishing the second half was good for just getting a feel for the game," Davis said. "It allowed us to get a better feel for each other; we're still trying to find that. It was good for our team to see that tonight.
"We just need to get a couple more practices under us and things like that, so we can get out there and be one core."
The Celtics weathered the storm. Now they start to form their own.
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Green gets to the line
Like Davis, these guys get the calls and the C’s can make a living at the stripe
matching up with the Lakers, Barnes and Artest will struggle to guard Green, Davis and Delonte, wearing them out so Paul and Ray can keep their legs fresh to score more often
It will make the match up interesting.
I mean you’re going to have either Green + pierce, or Green + Baby out there pretty much at all times. With Green either playing the 3 or the 4, depending.
That’s a difficult match up for the Lakers bench, who don’t have that second guy to pick them up. Ya Artest can check Pierce and Green, but he can’t be on the floor the whole time. Who’s the back up? Barnes I suppose, but Pierce torched him in the Magic series last year, and Green is just too big for him. Then if Doc runs out Pierce (3), Green (4), Baby (5) for any stretches, things get even more complicated.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Are you forgetting about Lamar Odom?
by KY Celts fan on Mar 17, 2011 11:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BBD can outmuscle Odom
He did so in the NBA Finals, at least.
True.
And Odom can only cover one guys, notice how I left Baby out of that until the last line up. Odom takes the spot of either Gasol or Bynum, depending on the line up. Green can play the 3 or the 4, meaning either Artest (who Green has a significant height advantage over) or Barnes (who Green has a significant strength advantage over) is going to have to guard him at some point. That’s assuming Green is playing the 3.
Consider the option Doc also have, of using Pierce as a 2 guard. Paul (2), Green (3), Baby (4), KG (5) in stretches where Doc may be looking to say Ray’s legs for a bit. How the heck do you cover that? Do they go big to match and try to have Odom play the 3 with Artest or Barnes at the 2? Possible, but Green and Baby are faster than Gasol and Bynum, and that team can run on you all day.
See my point? Versatility.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
(Pierce+Allen) & (Green+Pierce) & (Green+Allen)
Last night, Doc made a point to have Green paired up with both Pierce and Allen in separate pairings, moving Pierce between the 2 and the 3 to accommodate.
This meant we had two dominant, star-caliber wing players on the floor covering the SG & SF spots pretty much the entire game, yet got long stretches of rest for each of them. Heck, he had D-West in at the 2 for the remainder of the 96 minutes that those three didn’t cover and that obviously was pretty good too …
If need be, in the playoffs, Doc can put 32 minutes on each of those three and cover the SG & SF for the whole game without over-stressing any of them.
Does Danny know what he’s doing, or what?
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
Speaking about matching up with the Lakers...I
If healthy the C’s after the trade and other player signings match up better and have alot more roster depth then the Lakers do.
WIth Rondo, Ray, Delonte, Arroyo and Wafer the C’s match up well and have more depth at the point guard and shooting guard positions then LA does.
With Pierce, Green, Pavlovic and Wafer the C’s match up well and have more depth at the small forward position then LA does.
With KG, Baby, Murphy, Green, Kristic and if Shaq plus J.O. are healthy the C’s will match up very well and have more depth at the power forward and center positions then LA does.
The key is health though because though on paper the C’s may have the deeper and better overall team compared to LA, we need our players to be healthy and playing in order for it to mean anything.
Have you guys been
Watching the lakers recently? I think if healthy we can match their back court pretty well. But it is their frontline that really separate them from other top teams. Bynum is playing the best basketball since 2008. If we don’t get both oneals back well be in trouble. Last night—-despite we won we still got out rebounded. Damn watched the lakers-magic game and Howard looked small playing against Bynum.
by Chill_Out on Mar 17, 2011 4:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bynum is a huge concern...
Plus, Lakers are very determined to send Jackson out with his fourth career 3-peat, and winning their 17th {by their calculations} championship.
Well...
I did emphasize and say if Shaq and Oneal are healthy and playing the C’s have a advantage in the front line.
I agree if they are not LA would then have a advantage in the front court.
Thats why I think its vital if the C’s play LA to have both Shaq and J.O. on board, especially since one of the main reasons Danny obtained both of them was for the very reason of helping the C’s matchup better against LA due to the size, length, low post defense and 12 strong physical fouls they would be able to offer.
Again as I say above health is the big key for the C;s because if Shaq and J.O. are healthy if you then throw in the C’s other bigs of KG, Krstic, Murphy and Baby then the C’s have a huge talent and depth advantage in the front court over LA who is with Ratliff out injured only 3-4 deep in the front line with Bynum, Gasol, Odom and Smith.
+10
Me too. He can absolutely fly down the court on the wing on the break and he’s got a highly developed offensive game in the half court set. Not to mention that he’s just a smart, heady player. If he develops on the other end of the floor (defense and rebounding) we’ll be gushing about him for a long time to come.
by McHaleinthepost on Mar 17, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
So if the O'neals go back to the lineup
we’ll have JO,Krstic,Green,D.West,Big Baby,Murphy,Wafer,Arroyo.
we’re stacked!
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." - Vince Lombardi
+1
This talk of being stacked reminds me of preseason. Let’s actually get to the playoffs and then find out if we have the depth to overwhelm anyone
Big Diesel
Banner 18 is really about him or Jermaine coming back
by OttawaCeltic on Mar 17, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Murphy, Bradley, Pavlovic
Are my odds one favorites to not dress in the playoffs. Assuming both Oneals are healthy, of course.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
i think Murphy is in
Wafer out.
i have a feeling Murphy wouldn’t come here without some kind of guarantee to play.
BUT, most likely scenario is JO will get hurt, and both Wafer and Murphy are in.
Good point.
And entirely possible, I forgot about Wafer there. Ya, with Delonte healthy (and a far superior option at 2 guard) Wafer is a bit redundant.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I still look at Pavlovic as having the inside track on
both Wafer and Murphy. Wafer is replaced by West in terms of skill set offensively and is the superior defender. I think Doc will choose Pavlovic’s defensive ability over Wafer’s inconsistent offense/shaky defense. Murphy duplicates Krstic/Davis’s talents.
I know that Pavlovic isn’t an otherworldly type talent but he can fit a very specific role of defensive wing specialist.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
I think it may vary according to opponent.
At any rate, its good for Doc to have (cross fingers) healthy options that are solid options.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
At the 3
I’ll take Pavlovic over Wafer, sure thing. Pavlovic is listed as the same height and weight as Pierce, so more or less, he probably couldn’t be outmuscled anymore than Pierce. Question is, can you squeeze in minutes for Pavlovic when we all know Jeff Green’s gonna be the main backup SF, even if Green might play some PF?
If not, I’d rather Murphy take Pavlovic’s spot, give us more beef in the frontcourt.
I think Murphy also will play ...
more often then Wafer does.
Lets keep in mind until and if J.O. returns the C’s do not have a back up 4 with length to come off the bench to play behind KG.
I assume one reason the C’s signed Murphy aside for the reason he offers them big man depth and insurance was due to the fact he is a legit back up power forward with length, that Doc can utilize at times in place of Baby depending on opponents and match ups..
JO has played PF plenty over the years.
Though that’s more of a historical statement.
At this point, depending on his mobility, Doc may or may not make use of him there.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
Just as mmmmm pointed out ...
J.O did play power forward earlier in his career and can still probably do so if utilized properly against the right team and matched up against the proper opponent.
Many sources (like wikepedia below) list him as a power forward as well as a center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermaine_O%27Neal
With J.O.’s mobility slowed down with the knee woes he has had through the years, he has not played alot of power forward in the last few years , thus why many think of him as a center and not a power forward.
Though Doc has not used J.O. at the 4 position so far this year, I assume if J.O. had not missed so many games due to injury Doc probably would of used him for spot duty at the 4 position at some point of the season….
Like in games against the Mavs or LA when a lengthier power forward would of come in handy or at times during the season when Baby was out injured or in foul trouble and all Doc had (prior to obtaining Murphy and Green) as a back up 4 was Harangody.
Has, but probably can't anymore.
In certain match ups, maybe. It’d had to be against other PFs that aren’t particularly mobile. I could see him out there playing PF with Krstic, Krstic is a bit more mobile for a C, so you don’t have two real slow guys on the break, Krstic can get out and run. You can’t put him out there with Shaq though, and he’s not going to be playing PF in any other line up, when either KG or Baby are on the floor.
So it’s very unlikely he sees anytime at the 4 at all.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Not really a relevant question
until we see if he can play any position at all.
Until then, we don’t know what kind of hops he’ll have, if any.
Though in support of your last statement, even if he is fully healthy and mobile, I don’t know if Doc really has any need for him at PF since he has big, tall & fast options at PF in BBD, Murphy & Green.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
"I don’t know if Doc really has any need for him at PF since he has big, tall & fast options at PF in BBD, Murphy & Green."
QFT.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Deep Subject
1-8 on the Cs is deep: our fab 4 + Davis-Green-West plus one from ONeal/Krstic. Not many teams can match that.
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
Doc will go 9 in playoffs, most likely.
The greatest contribution it will make is the ability to get guys rest for the last 16 games of the season, and get them ready for the playoff push.
That can’t be underrated, especially in a tight race for the east. This bench may provide the ability to not only continue to win games and grab that top spot, but also get sorely needed rest for the Big 4.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
With so much talent Doc can play more than 9.
In the past he went with 9 players rotation because our bench had limited talent.
He can, but I find it unlikely.
Lots of rest in the playoffs, no back to backs. Starters will get more minutes.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Maybe not every game
But 10 players is possible with our lineup, there’s no doubt about it. We do actually have a bench now, when healthy. Don’t let anyone else tell us otherwise. : )
If the Suns can play 10 guys in the playoffs, so can we.
Can. Yes.
Should he? Eh, as long as they’re not gassed, you want the “top 8” on the floor as much as possible.
But yes, if there’s foul trouble, or they just look tired/out of rhythm some nights, he certainly can go deeper, and there is a definite possibility we will see a “deep bench” guy make an impact in a playoff game at some point.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
If the starters offensively "flatline" as they did last year in the Finals, Doc needs more options this year.
Using the starters too much (as last year), or relying too much on the same few players…then when none of them can’t hit the broad side of a barn as they couldn’t in game 7; Doc better have himself more options this year.
It was pitiful to have to sit there and watch PP and RA continually throw up multiple bricks all night long in game 7. It was just the ugliest offensive game that anyone should have to bear.
Please Doc expand your roster options this year…so, if one or two players just can’t seem to make a shot in a critical game, maybe another player can.
Please don’t set yourself up again to be held completely hostage to one or two players having a terrible shooting night in a sudden death elimination game.
As happened last year in the Finals in game 7 (and to be honest about it, also in game 6) back in LA.
by wayne7779311 on Mar 18, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Assuming the whole team is healthy in the playoffs... yes even J.O.
even our second unit will get some plenty of rest with our 3rd stringers…. assuming the whole team is healthy… yes even J.O.
Depth
we’re much deeper now than before the trade, deeper than the team that beat the Lakers at the Staple Center last Dec.
how many other playoff contenders have guys that can defend Baby and Green off the bench? that’s going to be a difference maker in a seven game series (assuming Shaq comes healthy enough to anchor the first unit)
Delonte is tough, going for blocks like that with a wrist still healing and not a 100% till next season, tough and crazy but that’s what we need
we still have some chemistry and injury issues to smooth out but last night was a taste of better things coming
I give the guys another 2 weeks to gel, get a little healthier and for guys like Murphy, get their conditioning back
Time for Rondo to sit a few? Give him a week to heal up a bit, we have the depth now, we need his “A Game” in the playoffs
Delonte made his monster block was with his left hand,
the right one was the one he broke.
JimmyT, speaking of Rondo...
Have you heard anything on if his planter fasciitis is healed, or could that be part of the reason he has seemed a little “off” his game lately?
That stuff doesn’t heal. I’m starting to suffer from it myself..
by itsgabriel on Mar 17, 2011 9:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It doesn't heal without complete and total rest.
The only “cure” for it is total inactivity. That’s obviously not going to happen till the off season.
It’s an injury that can be maintained and managed, but won’t go away until you just rest for 3+ months. That obviously isn’t going to happen anytime soon.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I have to disagree. You don't need complete and total rest to heal up from plantar fasciitis.
Speaking only from my own experience, you don’t need total rest to eliminate plantar fasciitis – at least, I didn’t. But you do need a significant lessening of whatever brought it on. And yes, complete rest is optimum.
Fair enough.
Let’s rephrase… to heal the injury complete Rondo needs far more rest than he’s going to get unless he just flat out decides to shut down all Basketball activities for a month and a half.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
no details of injury, IF there even is an injury. Doc went on WEEI today and said there was no injury
I’m sure he’s a little banged up like everyone else, but he hasn’t complained so I wouldn’t worry about it.
by Jimmy Toscano on Mar 17, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks to you, Jimmy, Sizzlak and itsgabriel for the answers.
I am really not that worried about the point position any more, since Arroyo seems to be picking things up quickly and Delonte is back. The extra rest can only help Rondo. Even if he is banged up and hurting, at 3/4 speed I believe he has enough to get us to and through the playoffs, now that he has capable help. I hope Delonte mainly backs up Ray though. Last night the minutes for the starters was down dramatically! All is good!
by thirstyboots18 on Mar 17, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you obviously didn't watch him in the 04 Olympics.
When he torched the US, and spawned all the outcry and “Redeem Team” in 08, after the US failed to win Gold for the first time since the Dream Team.
Dude can play.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
+1
Arroyo has done a very nice job and was a great pickup by Ainge
by McHaleinthepost on Mar 17, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Arroyo was wasted on the Heat.
They wanted an extra SG and Arroyo is more of a classic PG.
And that’s exactly what the Celtics wanted for their bench. He was a great pickup that fell right into our laps when the Heat bit on the Bibby bait.
Our guard depth is suddenly very, very good now, especially once Wafer gets healthy.
PG: Rondo/Arroyo/West/Bradley
SG: Allen/West/Wafer/Pavlovic/Bradley
And that doesn’t even include the fact that Doc will probably use Pierce more and more at the 2 when he has him in with Green at SF. And Allen and Pierce both play big point in some configurations.
I expect now that Arroyo is getting up to speed and West is back, that Doc can FINALLY start to rest Rondo – maybe even give him a game off.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
+1
I didn’t know that DA was wanting Arroyo a few years back. Seems like DA always gets his man
I almost couldn't believe what.....
I was seeing last night.
They were aggressive defensively and cohesive.
Loved Pierce getting into Granger’s head, as well.
Haha, ya that was fun.
Youngster has some maturing to do.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I liked...
Arroyo and West on the floor together last night. Even more than that, I saw a lot of fire left in West on the defensive end. I had forgotten what a pesky, get under the skin of the other guy defender he is. He and Baby are purely hungry on the second team. And Green, well, he probably has more athleticism and talent than we know what to do with right now but that’s not a bad position to be in. Also likes from last night: more rest for Rondo and the starters, Nenad on the offensive board and KG playing the foul mouthed cheerleader on the sideline.
Rebounding
Everyone is all hyped out about the game last nite but no one is mentioning how we got killed on the boards by a team that had played the nite before. Nineteen offensive rebounds were allowed. Not going to win many games with that kind of effort.
Nah
The reason the Pacers had so many ORBs is because they missed a zillion shots – which was directly because of the active, stifling defense the Celtics played.
They shot a miserable 33.7% overall – in fact much worse on first-shots (first shot of each possession) where I think they shot something like 18 for 57 or thereabouts. Overall, they were just 33 for 88. That’s 55 misses (some misses were on the same possession) and resulted in 48 rebound opportunities. The Celts grabbed about 60% (29) which is a tad lower than their regular defensive rebounding rate, but within the noise.
Whenever you have these games where the opponent has a high volume of misses – including misses on the the second-chance shot, the person on the put-back has the best position for the follow-on rebound off second-shot misses. This artificially boosts the ORB numbers for the opponent. It doesn’t actually mean much in game terms.
Far more important than the ORB numbers, is the low FG%.
On the other end, the Celtics shot a much higher 46.9%, generating far fewer misses. Per their strategy, they tend to forego pursuing ORBs themselves, preferring to get back on defense (creating the low first-shot % discussed up above). This tends to artificially boost the other team’s DRB numbers.
Rebounds are a secondary stat that is mostly a symptom of miss rates.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
I liked the small 2nd unit...
With Arroyo, West, Green, Davis & Murphy. They were active & aggressive. That line up puts five shooters on the floor which Doc must love. That bench has the potential to put up a ton of points and spell the starters for extended minutes. Just what Doc ordered…
So who drops off the Playoff roster? Murphy & JO? Kristic slides to the 2nd unit if Shaq comes back for 20mpg…
by LuckyNumber07 on Mar 17, 2011 9:02 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Murphy, Bradley, Pavlovic
Don’t dress in the playoffs, assuming all 15 bodies are healthy and available.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I think Wafer might end up in the bottom 3
though I think that any one of Murphy, Wafer & Pavlovic will likely be swapped in according to series match up needs, depending on what Doc wants for that game.
And of course, depending on health.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
I think who is dropped from the roster will depend on who the C's play...
If the C’s play a team with size like LA, they may drop Wafer, Bradley and Pavlovic probably to allow more bigs to be activated like Murphy and J.O. .
If the C’s play the Heat and need more wing players to guard Lebron, they may sit some bigs probably then and activate Pavlovic’ for his size, toughness and 6 fouls and maybe Wafer as well.
Doc will probably play with who is activated and who dropped from the active roster from series to series and maybe game to game depending on match ups and circumstances.
I've never really understood the "playoff roster" rule in the NBA
Is it for sure something that Doc can choose from game to game and not a set 12 players for the entire playoff run? Any definitive answer on this?
I agree with your take that it’ll change from series to series if they are in fact able to do that?
Yes Doc ....
can change, deactivate and activate whatever 12 players he wants from game to game.
If you go to the link below…
http://www.nba.com/news/rulechanges_060802.html
It describes how in 2006 the NBA increased the playoff roster size .
The last paragraph explains the regulation:
Increase in Playoff Roster Size:
Playoff roster size will be expanded from 13 to 15 players, with each team designating 12 active players and up to three inactive players prior to each game.
"Our owners are intent on making the playoff seeding more fair for all teams going forward and in quickening the pace of the end of games," said Stu Jackson, NBA Executive Vice President, Basketball Operations. "The Board also thought it made sense to allow teams to utilize the same 15-man roster in the playoffs that they use during the regular season."
The rules changes were recommended by the Rules and Competition Committee at its annual meeting in June, and approved this week by a vote of the Board of Governors.
Defense was great 4th Quarter.
The blocks by Green and West were awesome. True test will be when we play the Heat and Bulls again before the playoffs. We will have a better idea of what the second unit and playoff team as a whole will play like. Also cannot lose sight of fact that Pacers were on the second night of a back to back. But I solid win and, even better, it came the same night as a Miami loss, which puts us ahead by 4 in the loss column, plus we hold the tie breaker.
And Von Wafer will be back
Remember when he had back to back good games against the Lakers and the Heat? He’s growing into a solid player.
by bfrombleacher on Mar 17, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
arroyo might be better playing off the ball
I noticed on a few possession in the fourth that delonte needed the ball in his hands. Arroyo appears to be a decent enough shooter that if west handles the ball he will get open looks. I still want to see Baby pass the freaking ball out of the double team. we went several possession where green never saw the ball. it was either ISO for Davis or ray allen and on those possession we weren’t socring. with the shooters we have we should score almost every time if we just move the ball.
Arroyo is not a bad shooter.
But his 3-pt range is spotty at time. Mid-range is pretty solid though. Same goes for West (who has a better 3-pt range) which is what makes having them both out there so dangerous at time. You run either of them in screens and defenses have some tough decisions to make, you can’t drop under for either one, since they can knock down the shots, and you can’t fight over easily, since they both have the speed and handle to get by you and into the lane.
It’s a nice dynamic to have.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I'm going to disagree
I do like West’s ball handling, and maybe during the stretches when both Arroyo and West are on the floor it will sometimes make sense to let West run the offense.
But Arroyo is a very good ball handler and much more of a traditional facilitating-PG. Danny picked him up specifically to be a PG in this PG-driven offense. Most of the time when he’s on the floor he should and will be in the PG role.
If anything, West is a better catch-and-shooter than Arroyo and is, like Ray, a very active mover without the ball. He’s also got more height to help shoot over 2-guard defenders.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
speaking about benches, it was kind of sad to see posey at the end of the pacer’s bench, wasting away. i can understand the pacers wanting to go young and develop their youth, but larry could have found a quality home for posey at the deadline. yes, he has probably lost a step, but the man knows how to play and could be a pj brown type on a contender. too bad.
its the curse of his contract
he makes more than teams who could use him could have taken on in salary.
If Posey wanted to play, he would have had to eat a bunch of his contract in order to facilitate a trade. He’s still due almost $7M next year.
Its a tough situation that more than a few players end up in. They still have value as players – potentially on some team, but may be stuck on one that has no real use for their talents. And big contracts they earned earlier in their career keep them from being easily moved. So they sit there, getting paid big bucks while fans don’t understand and think they are overpaid for doing nothing.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
Posey was able to get a good deal when he left the Cs.
He’s making more money than he ever could have made staying with the Cs, and his career is starting to wind down. If next year is guaranteed,
He should stay where he is, and then either retire, or find a team that needs him for the vets minimum the year after, should he decide that he wants to continue playing.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix | International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ] | Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
12-men for playoffs
What exactly are the rules for dressing players for the playoffs? I know that you can only have 12 men, but can you change it after every game? or must it be set for the whole playoffs and can only play the undressed player if someone gets hurt?
OUTPACED
What a glorious night, we had many a star,
Krstic and Green, they’ll go far.
Murphy, Davis, and, of course, D West,
Of the new guys Arroyo knows the Cs’ plays best.
Q1 the starters struggled but had emotion and passion
The bench energized us, playing in the same fashion.
Green stood out, 19 points had he,
And blocked shots? He had a total of three.
The Cs won the game, there should be no complaint,
Except for the lopsided points in the paint.
When we have the O’Neals,the opponents are slower,
As a rule their points in the paint lower.
One thing seemed clear, the reffing was calmer,
Was that because of the ref, Violet Palmer?
Or maybe because it was Mike and Tommy night
For thirty years they have been a comforting sight.
As always, of course, it must be said,
Of Reggie Ray is now 35 ahead!
lovemyceltics.blogspot.com
March 16, 2011 10:43 pm
by mycelts on Mar 17, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Doc's Rotation
One thing Doc did last nite that caught my attention is that he subbed BBD for Kristic a bit past the middle of the 1st quarter. Usually BBD comes in for KG a little later. I think Davis added some energy to the 1st unit and Kristic got to play more with the second. And he did pretty well. Also Arroyo and West seemed to be a good combo. West was great last nite. Just hope he doesn’t get jinxed again because he can really help the team.
KG doesn’t seem to be himself and obviously Rondo. Wish we knew what was going on.Hopefully it’s just fatique with KG. I think it’s more with Rondo.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Finally Doc has a bench...
After the trade, buyout signings, Delonte and Baby returning from there injuries the C’s finally have a army of players to come off the bench in Arroyo, Delonte, Murphy, Baby, Green, Sasha and Bradley.
Now if only Shaq can return you will then be able to add him or Kristic to the bench to offer more firepower and depth.
If then J.O. can return he will add even more firepower and depth to the bench as well.
Its all about health now, if Shaq and J.O. can get healthy and the starters and the bench can stay healthy the C’s will be stacked and ready to go as they enter the playoffs.
Take tonight's energy on the road...
I don’t understand why the Celtics don’t play with the same intensity and energy on the road? Let’s get these same kind of wins against the Rockets, Hornets and Knicks.
Go Celtics!
Glad you're beginning to enjoy the Jeff Green experience
He’s a very skilled player as long as he’s being used properly and in concentrated doses.
Don’t know if you saw Thunder-Heat last night, but let’s just say that two games in, we are thoroughly enjoying the Kendrick Perkins experience as well.
www.welcometoloudcity.com
Us from Boston know...
That you can’t look at 19 minutes, 4 points, 6 fouls night and say Perk didn’t do any good.
His presence effects a game that don’t show up in the box score.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Perk is gone!
I wish people would stop crying over Perk. Believe me Perk ain’t thinking about you or me. He signed that 34million extension with the Thunder, he’s good now. Perk and Nate are playing with Westbrook and Durant, two superstars, so he’s in a great position right now.
Noone was crying.
Just respecting what he brings to the game.
I love Perk, but I believe the Celtics are a better team now than before the trade, and I believe that from the day it happened.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Last night was VERY GOOD...
…becasue Larry Bird has put together a nice looking team. PG…Collison…check. Center…Hibbert…check. Wings…Granger, George, D Jones….check. 4-5’s….Hansbrough, McRoberts…check. Role player…Foster…check.
McRoberts really surprised me. He was superb. Hansbrough was cooled down by KG, just as B Griffen was.
But, about our bench. It is looking really sharp. Baby is one tough character. From my seat you could hear the grunting and body on body contact that he brings down low. I would not want to deal with him. Arroyo was a steal. What is wrong with Miami. He gets it very fast. Murphy is so much more comfortable shooting the last two games. Rebounding is still not quite there. The glue was Delonte. His physical and BB IQ talents were very evident. Hell, Pavlovic was a good pick up
Green? Does anyone still possibly think dealing Perk and Nate for Green, Kristic and #1 was a mistake. Green and #1 for Perk & Nate would have been a good deal such is the current and future value of Green.
Another good sign from my seat. Some loud mouth Fool about four rows back from court got on Murphy for losing a battle for rebound. Murphy stared at the guy but Pierce came over and told him to shut his mouth. Very good morale move by Pierce. It was also clear that Murphy was well liked by his former teamates.
C’mon Shaq!. We are one powerful deep team if you get back.
anyone know the answer to my previous question?
the 12 man roster in the playoffs..are you allowed to dress the 3 players on the inactive anytime after any game? or is it a more permanent thing?
If you check your previous post ...
I actually answered your question and gave a more detailed answer also for Mencius.
So glad Jeff's starting to make an impact with the Celtics
I loved him being a part of the OKC storyline, but he really was a bit redundant there. I know a ton of fans here were down on the trade because Perkins was a favorite, but hopefully more games like this will make the transition easier.
Why so Syracuse?
So who is the big three from the bench right now?
Davis, Green and ??
My vote is Delonte West if he stays healthy ……he is solid on his decision making, very good D, smart D, steady at the PG or SG (which is what you need).
Dude that block on a much taller guy in mid air last night was absolute golden….love Delonte….
Is it Soup Yet?
Delonte brings that whole unit together.
He’s a leader both offensively and defensively, you can see there was just a different feel to that second unit with him on the floor. Their energy was better, their movement was better, they just seemed more comfortable.
Maybe some of that was some of the guys finally starting to “get it” but I fully believe it was also in no small part to getting Delonte back as well. He’s the type of heady basketball player, who’s energy and play is contagious whenever he’s on the court.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Green is a player!!!
I virtually can not believe this guy is wasting away in OKC, here, he is a stud in the making and he is not even entering his prime yet. Me thinks his ceiling is Reggie Lewis.( notice I said ceiling, which means he ain’t there yet but If we look back at Reggie when he was 24, the similarities are quite eerie).But I ain’t raising my expectations that much b/c he can also become a dud in which case he ain’t improving anymore, but so far so good..Same height, not a leaper but by far has taken advantage of his athleticism. He is only 24 and would still improve . I also noticed how PP can virtually go all out and not worry about conserving his energy knowing he has a legit back up who can do similar things as he does. If Doc properly utilizes the bench, there is no reason for the starters to play more than 33 min even in the playoffs.
"No I’m not KG. Not at all, but I’m Big Baby Glen Davis from LSU, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I’m not the Big Ticket. I’m the Ticket Stub. Don’t count the Ticket Stub out. You might need the ticket to get in the game, but you leave with the ticket stub, because you’ll never forget this game."
they scored 3 pts the first 3 min of the qtr. then doc put rondo in and Baby got to the FT line. I still don’t trust them without one or two of the starters. Jeff Green got a lot of easy baskets in the qtr because of Rondo. I don’t think he can do well getting his own shot and not playing with great players. If it is just green and the rest of the bench, they don’t score.
Um... what game were you watching man?
Rondo finished with 8 assists, not exactly a world beating number.
This means a large majority of Green’s post had to be either unassisted, or assisted by someone other than Rondo (many of them were in fact unassisted if you go look up the numbers) so I have no idea where you get this from.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
post=points
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Well, he's got a bit of a point
During Green’s hot streak in the 2nd period, there was one stretch, from the 7:33 mark to the 4:09 mark during which Green scored all 12 Boston points to take us from down 19-23 to up 31-29. The play-by-play for Green’s scoring reads:
07:33
[BOS 21-23] Green Reverse Layup Shot: Made (7 PTS) Assist: Rondo (3 AST)
06:51
[BOS 22-23] Green Free Throw 1 of 2 (8 PTS)
06:51
[BOS 23-23] Green Free Throw 2 of 2 (9 PTS)
06:00
[BOS 26-23] Green 3pt Shot: Made (12 PTS) Assist: Rondo (4 AST)
05:45
[BOS 27-25] Green Free Throw 1 of 2 (13 PTS)
04:46
[BOS 29-27] Green Layup Shot: Made (15 PTS) Assist: Rondo (5 AST)
04:09
[BOS 30-29] Green Free Throw 1 of 2 (16 PTS)
04:09
[BOS 31-29] Green Free Throw 2 of 2 (17 PTS)
So Rondo obviously played a significant part in that run.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
mmmmm
Though I at times get dizzy keeping up with your stats..lol, the info is very informative so keep up the good work.
Sizzlack
If you watched the game U would have noticed that the Bench didn’t start scoring until Rondo came back on the floor. The bench together as a unit scored 3 pts from the start of the 2nd qtr until the 8:21 mark when Baby got fouled. That’s awful. They went 4 min basically scoring 3 pts. Rondo came back in and got green his first basket at 7:33 and then the bench strated to click with Rondo.
Sorta
From when Rondo left with 2 minutes to go in the first and when he came back in with 9min left in the 2nd, the bench, with Arroyo at point, did cut the Pacer’s lead from 4 to 3. And note that not long before Rondo first went out, the deficit was 8 points. In that short minute before Rondo took a break, baskets by Green (assist from Pierce) and Davis (assist from Rondo) cut it to 4. While Rondo was indeed still on the floor, you gotta give some cred to the bench players for making their shots.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
the bench
Yes I give them some credit for making the shots. But when Rondo came back on the floor he got green all of his shots. Green went to the line and scored the rest. If Rondo is was not on the floor I don’t think green scores 12 straight points. The bench can’t play by themselves. They need starters on the floor with them.
Yes, per my detail up above.
Doc did let the bench go sans any starters for the first ~4 minutes of the 4th period when the combination of Arroyo, West, Green, Davis and Murphy managed a little 8-6 run.
Otherwise, I agree, Doc isn’t completely ready to let the bench run for long without one of Rondo, Ray or Paul on the floor. But they are getting closer to that.
"We will take it easy, and walk on down our road at our pace with our focus ahead, and your focus on us." - Warrior Spirit, on what Celtics' Ubuntu is.
I am gonna Make A Prediction
The 2011 Boston Celtics Will Win Banner 18
I am looking at this team.
I predict Shaq will be Baq for the Playoffs, and he will play as well as he did at the beginning of the season.
As soon as DWest has 1 or 2 weeks under his belt, Rondo will be put on the shelf for most of the remaining regular season, but be practicing with the team to get thus juggernaut of 5 ALL STARS who can still really play.
Some core pieces of the 2nd Opus of The Rondo Era have emerged. I predict Rondo and Green becoming fast friends.
JO will make it for the Orlando or Chicago series. He will play valiantly, give his 6 fouls, and get hurt again in the defining/winning 6th game. That’s all we really need from him, right?
I think Perk is going to beat the Lakers. I can just taste. A hockey player I once knew used to say he loved the taste of blood in his mouth.
San Antonio vs. the Celtics. 2 teams for the ages. Celtics in 7.
I’m so excited about the playoffs. I know the team still has to integrate the injured players and that we have to get healthy, but I can just see
-Rondo/Green alley-oops with Green being a huge help for the Celtics
-Rondo playing out of his mind and people saying they knew he was gonna show up in the playoffs,
-KG being way better than last year and causing havoc to other power forwards even at his age of being “old”
-Paul playing amazing as usual,
-Ray hitting 3’s left and right possibly breaking records,
-BBD playing better than last year and being a bench threat,
-Shaq while being old still being an inside threat and an added bonus winning his 5th ring tying with Kobe
-Delonte being that tough gritty player on the court and proving his doubters wrong
-Carlos if getting minutes showing why Miami made a mistake and getting his ring before the Heat players
There are just too many things for me to say about what can happen. I know this playoffs for the Celtics can end in highlight reels big time with the end result of hard work, struggles and downfalls being banner 18.
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