Boston Celtics Offseason Primer
by Jeff Clark on May 12, 2011 5:58 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintEvery fan deals with this kind of disappointment differently. Personally, I have to put it behind me and think to the future. The wounds are still fresh, the pain still lingers, but I'm still a diehard and the show must go on. So here's a quick look ahead to what we'll be talking about all offseason.
Domino Doc Rivers
The first domino (as it was last year) is Doc Rivers. Will he stay or will he go? Nobody would fault him for leaving. He's earned that. But like I said last night, you can't overstate how important he is to this team. Can you imagine Rondo breaking in a new coach? Can you think of anyone that would keep this often-times-bickering family together with tough love and just the right motivation? I can't and I hope I won't have to.
Thankfully all reports indicate that he's coming back. He's got an offer on the table from Danny and his family is once again supportive of his career. So that's good news.
Lawrence Frank, on the other hand, is already interviewing for head coaching jobs, so we might have to look for another new lead assistant (and perhaps coach in waiting if Doc doesn't agree to a long term deal). I wonder if Kevin McHale would accept a secondary role on the bench in order to work with KG again.
Who's Not Walking Through That Door?
Ray Allen has already predictably said that he'll pick up the $10M player option on his contract. Kevin Garnett has another year on his deal and Pierce and Rondo have multiple years. So the core is still under contract for next year. There's always an outside chance that Garnett might decide to retire, but if Doc is back and the team isn't blown up, I can't see that happening.
Then there's the rest of the free agents. Jeff Green (restricted), Glen Davis, Delonte West, and perhaps Nenad Krstic are of the most interest. Who we can afford will depend a lot on the new collective bargaining agreement as much as Danny's evaluation of each player's value to the team going forward. I'd expect something to be worked out with Jeff Green. Davis is much less likely. I'd like to see Delonte and Krstic back for another year off the bench but time will tell.
Even though he's under contract for next year, I would imagine that Shaq has played his last game in the NBA. I think Jermaine O'Neal - with a full offseason to heal - might just be our best option at center going into next year. Then again, it wouldn't shock me if he also retired. Just depends on how his body recovers from all the injuries and miles he's put on it. Update: He has said that he'll contemplate retirement for family reasons.
What's The Plan, Dan?
Say what you want about Danny Ainge, he's not shy. It took guts to trade for Ray Allen when KG wasn't in hand yet. It was risky to bring this group back for another couple of years (this last offseason). It was even riskier to shift gears mid season and trade a core piece (and family member) for a potential bridge-to-the-future guy.
I'll even take it a step further. Looking back to the pre-Big 3 days, he took a team that was an afterthought in the playoffs and traded Antoine Walker (at the time the team's 2nd best player). He will answer to no one but the owners and he will always have his eyes focused on raising banners. Like what he does or not, you have to credit him for boldness and forward thinking.
To that end, I wouldn't rule anything out. Could he trade Rondo (like say, with an expiring salary and picks for Chris Paul)? You bet he would. Would he trade both Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen (large expiring contracts) if he thought he could build a new championship core for the next few years? I wouldn't bet against it. On the other hand, like last offseason, he might decide that the best option he has is to reload around the current core and hope for health and better luck next year.
Lock 'Em Up?
As I've said before, the lockout might actually be a good thing for the Celtics. They could start the season a month or two late and give our old guys a longer time to recuperate. They always start strong and fade around the new year. Maybe we could roll right on through the playoffs in a shortened season. Ya never know.
Sadly we'll have to listen to lawyers and union reps and David Stern talk a lot this offseason. The implications will be felt for years to come. Will there be limitations on guaranteed contracts (ie. no more Vin Baker situations)? Will the cap continue to shrink? Will there be "franchise tags?" The team that reacts to the changes the fastest will have a big leg up on the rest of the league. Danny Ainge has actually positioned us pretty well salary wise - with lots of flexibility and not a lot on the payroll after next year.
The Missing Piece(s)
Can't believe I got this far down the article and still haven't even mentioned actually adding new players to the team. Clearly we have lots of needs but I think scoring will be a prime need going forward - regardless of position. Barring major changes to the CBA, there's not going to be much to work with in terms of cap space and our pick is going to be late in a weak draft, so my hopes aren't that high on those fronts. That leaves trades and sign-and-trades and who knows what could happen there?
To answer the question that's on everyone's mind - no, I don't think we have a chance at Dwight Howard. I just don't see the fit in terms of what Orlando will want. I'd rather focus on Chris Paul or Andre Iguodala but both of those guys would be long shots as well (unless their teams are truly desperate for salary dumps). So if we can't make a splash like that, I'm not sure if the team next year will look all that different in terms of the core. For their part (and for what it is worth) it sounds like the core players want to come back for one more run.
It is going to be an interesting offseason to say the least. Stick around, there's plenty to talk about.
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Keep the big four, rebuild the bench, find a decent back up center for the oneals.
rebuild the starters onli wen the big 3 retires.
It all starts with having an inside presence.
Before he ever arrived here, it was understood Garnett wouldn’t be consistently banging in the paint. The Celtics got by with Perkins, and almost managed to with Rasheed. But injuries never allowed Jermaine or Shaq to give it a serious shot. Pity.
Agree 100%
The lack of a big man inside presence on both offense and defense (which oddly was suppose to be a strong point for the C’s this year) mainly due to injuries, was a big reason for there premature demise of the C’s this year.
Agree. We need an athletic center on that starting unit. I see T Chandler is a FA this summer? I can’t imagine we can afford him but he would be perfect
Doubt Dallas lets him go with the way he's played this year.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Yes but they own his bird rights now.
Meaning they can pay him basically whatever they want. And since when has Cuban not been willing to spend?
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
I would not be shocked if neither Oneal plays again.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
well if thats the case then shaq nids to cut some weight 300lbs will do if he stil wants another ring .
if he cant lose weight then he might consider retiring. One of the reasons i thnk shaq is prone to injury its bec his overweight.
by reb0undwins18 on May 12, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaq won't
And Jermaine is a liability. Plus this kid cannot score under the basket. He is a tough defender and good rebounder but useless at the offensive end. He is a good backup, and defensive role player.
Why keep the big 4?
We’re just going to have the same exact problems we’ve been having the past 3 years, offensive droughts, 4th quarter collapses, and they just keep getting older.
Celtics' turn on switch for the playoffs: the last bastion of hope for battered Celtic fans.
by PseudoElite on May 12, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
To state the obvious, it's all about taking the few shots you get at winning another title.
That’s why I’m for keeping most of the squad (though not Davis), and begging Shaq to come back. I’ve said it enough times, but I’ll say it again. I want Shaq to sit out essentially the entire regular season, and then to give us what he can in the playoffs. I figure that’s our best chance at a title.
Shaq is done.
It’s no knock on him, but his body has just given up on him.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Yes, Shaq probably is done.
But wouldn’t you wager one roster spot on the possibility of him being able to play in the next post-season in roughly the same way he played at the beginning of the past regular season? I would.
They wouldn't need too...
All he’d have to do is retire now. Then he’s a free agent at the signing deadline.
Take his time off, relax, work out at his own pace, then sign and play himself into shape through the last 4 weeks of the regular season. Like all the Sheed rumors this past year, that’s a real possibility for Shaq.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
if shaq wants to win another title he must lose weight.
i thnk the reason why shaq is prone to injury its bec his overweight.
by reb0undwins18 on May 12, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
We might wish for all sorts of things.
But the question remains, if it’s possible Shaq might be able to play in the next post-season in roughly the same way he played at the beginning of the past regular season, do you work to keep him on the squad?
I mean, you’re not going to turn away because he’s too heavy, right?
LOL. I did not post last night because I needed time to reflect on what just happened.
That and I was picking up the shards of glass that was once my television screen. I feel worse today than last night. Same way I felt the day after the Game 7 loss last year. Ugh………
Bench Players Needed!
Looking back on the Miami series, I believe Kevin, Paul, and Ray played as well as they could have. Unfortunately, they could not all get it going at the same time, but in my opinion, and given their age; they played well. We have to keep in mind that the bench was very, very limited; which meant that the big three had to play longer minutes and work harder on defense. Paul and Ray running around and trying to stay with James and Wade definitely took a toll on their legs and ultimately offense. It also got them into foul trouble.
As far as Rondo, he is a great point guard, but unfortunately not a great shooter. I think Dany Ainge will keep him around, but the one question or concern I have is: can we afford his poor shooting capabilities? New York and Miami gave him plenty of space and the player guarding Rajon played help defense, doubling a Celtic of a choice; basically 5 on 4 Celtics because Rajon could not shoot. He can take it to the rim, but he was limited with the dislocated shoulder. I just hope this offseason he works on his shot!
The one player we should keep is Delonte. He was injured for most of the season, but he still gave it his all- just like everyone else on the team, and for that they deserve a lot of respect- and next year if he plays more aggressive and looks for his shot; he will be okay!
Jeff Green? Not really sure! I mean, yeah he has potential, but so we want to take that chance? If the big three play one last season we cannot afford taking chances. We need players that can contribute off the bench consistently. If Shaq and Jermaine are healthy, why not? The center position has been an issue for the Celtics for few years
now! With a solid bench, we would still be playing this season!
by Danyck on May 12, 2011 7:16 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You feel better about keeping Shaq and JO than keeping Jeff Green?
Jeff Green is probably the 1st or 2nd most athletic player on this team. We need to become more athletic.
by longlivethe80's on May 12, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
About your comment about how the C’s need to become more athletic and how Green helps fills that need.
How Glen Davis has fallen from grace.
I think next year is a transition year, The core should be playing 20 minutes. They fall apart at the end of games because they are playing too many minutes for their age. I do not have an answer, or a suggestion. How do we stand in the draft?
Next….Good run, but I have a problem with watching the regular season with this group, if I know they don’t care what the outcome of the game is. I cringed in the offseason, because, again, they were out of gas or injured or both. Danny lost on his gambles this year, unless Green becomes an all-star.
I love Glen but
If he can be traded for some future roleplayer, hey it might be the best for the team and for him, to play in a team that can give him that starting role he has always wanted. I do thank him for all his effort to the organization, he plays with heart, sometime too much, where it starts to hurt!
We have to rebuild, starting from the center position being the best option
This team is done. They runned out of gas in game 2, 4 and 5, so the main problem is their age. It is as simple as that. And big3 will not be younger next year. Perk would not have helped here. Kendrick and Anthony would have balanced out, counteract each other as Perk is very weak offensively. JO did (at least) a decent job on the defensive end. Now we have plenty of expiring contracts, so Ainge just has to take the most of it. I think the one unmovable part of this team is Paul Pierce.
The "Downward Spiral" will continue next year
The Celtics are too damn old…and Danny is out of bullets!
KG and Ray are worth more as expiring contracts than they are on the court.
Nobody will give us quality for our garbage sitting on the bench.
Barring an off-season miracle, they`ll be a 45 win team next year.
I feel bad for the suckers buying season tickets!
Really, cause Ray didn't just have the best statistical year of his career.
And finish top 3 in shooting %…
Wait a minute, yes he did!
Ya, what has been, he’s awful.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Was there a point to that?
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
I am.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Ray has a player option.
It’s not even in Danny’s control now.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
What did Wade average in this series against "ageless" Ray Allen...over 30.2 PPG
About 20% more than his regular season average!
Ray Allen can be on my team any time...if for no other reason is that is he brings knowledge, professionalism and mentoring
and he can still shoot the lights out
Is it Soup Yet?
He is a total class act and can, at the very least, counsel the young guys.
I think the Big 3 can still compete. Let’s just surround them with quality players. Green and West with Rondo is a good start.
He averaged pretty similar numbers against Philly too.
Who had Iguadola, often said to be one of the best SG defenders in the game, who is young and athletic.
Yet Wade still put up big numbers, he’s just really, really good. Great defense will never beat great offense, it can only make it harder on them. Ray did all he could, and if you think there’s a single person in the whole league who was going to both shut down Wade, and still be productive on offense (which Ray more than was, led the team in scoring in 3 games) then you’ve just flat out lost your damn mind.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
there is no one in the league that can stop D.Wade or LeBron...
The Celtics just need to get more athletic and find a way to be more consistent on offense. That may be easier said than done, but if the core can get some help, they should be able to make another run. Either way, they’re good for more than 45 wins…especially if it’s a short season.
by longlivethe80's on May 12, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
rays in great shape
and had a career year at 35. how old was reggie miller when he stopped playing, 40? ray’s not close to fading but he needs his minutes cut to between 30-32 a game.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, Wade torches a lot of people.
Ray did as best he could, Wade hit some ridiculous shots. No person could be expected to shut him down, just make him work hard and hope he wears down. That’s what Ray did, Wade just didn’t wear down, you can’t ask for more.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
You're impossible.
I quit.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
wade torches alot of people
it wasnt just ray
who is a better option at SG than ray that we can get? keep in mind we could only use the MLE, LLE (if available) or vet minimum assuming we dont trade someone.?.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Celtics Basketball?
We lost due to execution.. mental issues not due to a lack of talent or legs or even size
We really could have (should have) beaten Miami imo
The really frustrating part for me is the plays that were run late in game 5.. get the ball to KG and stand around watching him try and score. Totally crap! That is not Celtics basketball and i wonder whether Doc is to blame for that or the players.. to me this is the no1 issue. (of course the terrible turnovers hurt a lot too!)
I could see so much more ball and player movement on offense earlier in game 5 and i was expecting us to win. in game 4 we were really stagnant and had a lot of trouble getting good shots.
When your all running around screening each other and the defense is having to adjust its easier to find holes to take advantage, get an easy shot… that environment gives our players a better chance to score. We didnt have a truly dominant and reliable 1on1 player against Miami due to their youth and sheer talent. None of the matchups were decidedly in our favor to be relied upon .. even KG vs Bosh imo.
But as a team of smart and savvy veterans we could have and should have taken Miami to the cleaners by playing true Celtics Basketball.. sharing the ball, making the extra pass, screening.. no hero ball thatt the nba has become so obsessed with since MJ!
But instead we played their game.. we played into their hands, 1on1 ball when it came to the crunch and big surprise, we lost.
I am bitterly disappointed we lost (and we did get robbed by some crap refereeing but you expect that against the new new big 3) but i’m more disappointed by our style of play.. not playing to our advantage :(((
IMO we have enough talent to win it all if we play the right way..
if you cant score (like we couldnt at the end of games 4 and 5) you dont win anything. i thought we defended and rebounded ok.. no?
Yes, definitely.
I mean Game 4 they get the turnover from James, and have the chance to win it, and just completely brain fart the final possession.
Game 5 they were getting stops, and then coming down on the other end and just coughing the ball up (steal from james, awful pass from Deltone, equally awful pass from Paul off Green’s finger tips, 3 turnovers at the worst possible time late in the game.)
The defense was not the issue, and was as dominant as ever for stretches of the game. But when you give a team like the Heat gift wrapped possessions, eventually, no matter how good your defense is, shots are going to go in.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
All 4 losses were winnable. Breakdowns in the 4th quarter. How many games did we have the lead at halftime?
We lost the series 4-1 but I would not say we were dominated. The Heat were clutch at key times and we were not. But the Heat did not thrash us. Based on that, keep the core, ditch Davis, get some younger athletic players as support and push on again.
phil is d*mn right we know how to lose 4thquarters.
davis nids to go somewhere his fat and overweight his not contributing much in the playoffs.
by reb0undwins18 on May 12, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, and last night illustrated that you cannot take off any games in the regular season.
If we win those games against the Wizards, Cavs, Clippers, etc.. then we have HCA in this series which could have made a difference.
Well, they didn't win the game at home they could have either.
So I’m not sure it would have mattered. If you don’t execute down the stretch, you lose. Period.
We can argue all day about what caused those 4th quarter collapses. Age, fatigue, just bad luck, Rondo’s injury… who knows. It happened, it’s over, it doesn’t matter anymore. But I don’t think playing at home would have mattered much. They had their chances, they threw them away (literally.)
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Not having homecourt is not a plus either.
So better to have it as a bonus.
by LarryBird33 on May 12, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair point.
It definitely does not hurt, that’s for sure.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Rondo's injury
gets my vote.
After looking at the on/off numbers, its pretty clear our team absolutely sucked when Rondo wasn’t on the floor.
I thought Delonte’ played very well overall, but for whatever reason hethe team did not perform overall well with him at point. He was better when on the floor WITH Rondo (i.e., playing the 2).
One possible reason why Delonte’s numbers at PG look bad may be because a lot of his minutes were shared with BBD. BBD’s overall rating for these playoffs was just awful.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
We lost because we have not been able to find the right pieces.
We have not been able to replace Posey (we hoped Green would be that).
We have sort of been able to replace House (with Delonte, but you touch him and he injures himself)
We have not been able to replace a Perkins (With Shaq, Jermaine or Krstic)
We do not have a Powe off the bench (fighting forward to back up Pierce or KG)
Baby had a bad offseason, can he recover or maybe is best for everyone to send him to greener pastures.
If we are able to replicate that Championship team, we might win. Right now, the pieces are not there.
And I forgot a Tony Allen...
Just who might fit that role?
if we could somehow get terrence williams
from houston, i think he’d be our defensive guy off the bench.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep the big 4 and West, then clean house
First and foremost, get a true center. Relying on JO to stay healthy is like relying on me winning the lottery. And get a coach (head or assistant) who can preach offense to players.
Give Rajon for Paul? NEVER
I never want to hear anything about it. Never. Not with the way, and the heart, that Rondo plays for this team.
CP3 is a great player, but he’s not a Celtic.
We shall never go down without the hardest fight, the fight of a Champion
I agree with this.
Rondo is great, but CP3 is on a whole different level.
He could be a centerpiece of a new core moving forward.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
as always, it all depends on cost.
What are you giving up in order to get him?
When both are healthy, Rondo is not that far behind Paul in total value. His point creation is not really that far behind and his defense is better.
Rondo is locked up on a fairly friendly deal, too.
I’m not saying you don’t do it. But it is all about cost.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I love Rondo...
…but if we had Chris Paul or Deron Williams we would still be playing (Ditto with a healthy Shaq.) Five on four in every half court set does not help anyone besides the opponent. Remember, I love Rondo but Paul’s defender can’t switch or sag. If there is anyway to get him, Danny needs to do it.
The core is coming back for next season.
Garnett, Allen and Pierce are all under contract and are not
going anywhere. BB Davis and Rondo will both be back.
A shortened season and a healthy team and one last run at a title.
If you don’t like that storyline – too bad.
I will be glad to see my favorite Celtic team suiting up next Fall.
And will be cheering them on again.
Go Bulls! Beat the Dirty cHeats!
THIS
Why would Garnett and Allen even think of retiring? They were fit to play and play well. You only have to look at the O’Neals to see what impending retirement looks like…
Go Bulls, Go Mavs, Go Thunder,
If there’s a God the cHeats get swept by the resurgent Mavs. I’d love to see Bosh’s Presser after that lol
If there’s a God the cHeats get swept by the resurgent Mavs
Provided that they even make it past the Bulls.
by Celtics own the refs on May 12, 2011 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Tommy T. will be putting up a fight
Tommy T. will be drawing up defensive schemes to slow down
Jade and the Queen. Deng and Ronnie Brewer are both good
enough defenders to execute those defensive sets.
Noah can guard Princess Bosh no problem.
Go Bulls! You have a ex-Celtic as a coach – and that is a good thing!
The Dirty cHeat can go to Hell.
"jade and the queen" lol
But you forgot about Asik and Kurt “Big Sexy” Thomas
"You control the rebounds, You control the game"- Hanamichi Sakuragi
Yeah I agree
I don’t see any team out of thr east competing with the Mavs. They are bigger. They have a smart veteran PG who can shoot and their 6th man is great enough to be a starter on any team. I’d take Terry over Green, BBD or West any day. I’m just hoping the Bulls can stop the team that shall remain nameless. Until next year folks. It was a fun ride
SAVE THE PLANET. GO GREEN!
by CaliforniaGreen on May 12, 2011 9:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
they are not retiring next year
Garnett and Allen are still in good condition. Those two
are amazing for their age – what they are still capable
of doing. Pierce is the only one that looks “old”.
I thought Pierce was affected by the Achilles last night.
It was not mentioned but he was moving even slowing than usual. Of course, they were all gassed in the last 5 minutes. I wanted them to go out guns blazing like Game 7 of the finals last year. Disappointed we went out on a 16-0 run. We turned into a jump shooting team at the end and Rondo’s injury in game 3 was obviously huge.
Pierce was affected, no question. Rondo was affected by Wade’s dirty
pull down. Why was Wade playing in game 4? NBA front office – you suck.
We still should have won game 4 and should be playing Friday night.
We should have won this game. All game long, I was talking to the TV:
“don’t let the refs get to you, just play through them”. And the C’s did for
the entire game until the last few minutes. They just could not get over
that hump again. So damn close.
no calls did not help us
Bosh steps out of bounds and throws a pass to James – James hits a 3.
Pierce did not travel and we lost that basket.
BB Davis did not travel and we lost that basket.
Pierce was hammered when we were down 2 and no call in the last minute.
The Celtics still had a chance to win with all the bad calls and a hobbled
Pierce and hurt Rondo. Still, if Ray hits that 3 at the end then we would
have won.
Pierce
I think he’d benefit coming off the bench going forward. You can have elite Pierce for 25 minutes a game or good Pierce for 36. He looked fatigued at end of the games.
That's not an awful idea.
But I’m not sure Piece could stomach it.
It makes a ton of sense though. Green I really believe is one of those guy who needs to be starting, he has to play his way into the flow of a game. He’s not one of those “instant energy” guys who can just come into a game cold and shoot lights out. He’s gotta find his rhythm, let the game come to him.
Swapping their roles, with Green starting, and Pierce coming off the bench to provide needed scoring (they’d end up playing about the same minutes, with Pierce closing the game, obviously) I think would do wonders for both players.
I just don’t think Pierce would be able to subjugate his ego enough to be “Paul Pierce – Super Sub.”
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
i can envision green playing big minutes
at both the 3 and 4, giving PP & KG more rest next year
I still don't like him at the 4.
I think getting a solid back up PF will be important. Davis should be gone, and I’d like to see the Celtics take a veteran minimum flyer on bringing Powe back. Murphy obviously was a mistake, he’s washed up, move on from that one.
Bring back Powe, if he stays healthy he can be a solid back up to KG. Use Green primarily at the 3.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Agreed, Green better suited as a SF
But, believe Celts biggest need is now at center; hope for an athletic, shot-blocker that can score some; JO should be a backup only.
Powe, I dont know: flirting with the injury bug again, he is undersized,etc
I'm not saying you make him the only option.
I’m saying on a vet min flyer, see what he can do. Definitely have a back up plan though.
Maybe bringing Murphy back and seeing if he can, given a full training camp, get back to that form he had in 09-10 when he averaged a double/double. I think you take a flyer on those two guys, either both on vet mins, or portions of the MLE, and one of them might just come through.
If they don’t you still got Green you can put in at PF to give KG rest, that’s not ideal of course, but no awful either.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
I think you at least talk to Murphy.
This guy was a rebounding beast just a year ago. And he’s not that old. I’d take a chance on seeing how he looks at the end of camp.
On Green – I still say Doc just needs to stick to a rotation of him, Paul & Ray at the 3-2, giving each 32 minutes.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I like that idea.
And Danny kinda hinted to it during his WEEI interview. Said anything could happen next year, “Maybe Paul comes off the bench” is a verbatim sentence.
So a Ray-Paul-Green platoon at 2-3 is a real possibility.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
agree
Don’t know if Pierce would go for it but it seems to be the best in house option for making the C’s starting unit more athletic. Pierce can still close games and he’s a swing-man so he’d be ideal as a 6th man.
by CelticsFanNC on May 12, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you McCracker
except I do not see Davis returning. The core 4 will stay, although I predict we will be dealing with mid-season trade rumors for KG and Ray, depending on how the season develops. DA may use those two as chips to get younger and more athletic, and teams making a playoff push will be interested. Keep Green even though he gets raked on this site. Yes. he made some mistakes last night but he also hit some big shots to keep us close. Heck, KG made many mistakes but I do not read many postes calling for his head. West is definitely a keeper. I do not think we see Shaq again and I am not willing to gamble on his health for the playoffs. Get a starting center and use JO and Krstic as back ups (assuming JO does not retire). Othereise, bring in some new faces.
I am rooting for Thibs and Scal in the East and Perk in the west. It has been quite a ride this season.
Keep the big 4, with West and Green.
Trade the rest for Howard!!!!! Well, ORL won’t have enough room for 9 more players, so maybe we can make a 3-team trade for draft picks.
by Celtics own the refs on May 12, 2011 8:29 AM EDT reply actions
This is my first (full one since the offseason) season with the CelticsBlog site...
It’s great to be able to interact with fellow C’s fans all across the world!
Kudos to Mr. Jeff and all the other authors and mods! :)
Now, here we go again with the off season “rumors from reliable sources” hahaha :P
P.S.
My #1 fantasy player for the C’s is actually Kevin Love… even if it means having KG off the bench! His game would be a good fit to our team mentality ;) Heck, he’d average more rebounds than the rest of the line up if he was with us :-P
Love the Love idea
I think he’s undervalued at Minny.
Rondo and filler for Love and the rights to Rubio?
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
Not a chance in hell.
Love is not going anywhere.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
fantasy not reality
We don’t deal in fantasy here. Kevin Love is not coming to Boston.
Rubio over Rondo? You must be insane.
If it meant getting Love?
I’d pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat.
That being said, it’s not happening.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
"We don't deal in fantasy here"?
We deal in any ideas concerning the celtics. Any poster with an idea is welcome to discuss it. Do you mean fantasy like “This year we are adding Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to Paul Pierce and we are going to win the championship” 2008?
by thirstyboots18 on May 14, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
The Orlando loss 2 years ago.
I had to stop watching NBA early. Well, I didn’t really stop, I just didn’t care because there was no team to root for.
Now this year, with the Celtics done….
GO WIN A RING, DIRK!!!!!
by Celtics own the refs on May 12, 2011 8:41 AM EDT reply actions
Bench didn't deliver because we put regular season wins over bench development
Doc had to make those very difficult in-game decisions (starters v bench) on that but if we had DeAndre Jordan, for ex, he’d probably be inactive for playoffs becasue of now run time during season. Kristic played well last night. Where was he first three games? Jeff Green has great talent and so does D West. Doc is the right coach for them but he needs to wrap his mind around them from the beginning of camp and play them through their mistakes. Wafer and Bradley – Danny was right to hold onto them. Big Baby was a disappointment in playoffs but it would be a mistake to let him get away. We know what he isn’t but a high energy, strong, charge taking, work-to-improve player is still hard to find.
I suspect Davis is too high maintenance to keep with the Celtics any longer.
Davis stunk it up bad in the playoffs. Against the Heat, I was really missing Leon Powe.
And apparently, still thinks he could be a starter.
I’d love to see Leon in Boston again, I really think Danny should take a gamble on that one.
He only signed a “rest of year” contract with Memphis. If he’d come to Boston on a Vet min next year, he’d absolutely be worth the risk. What do you have to lose?
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Assuming he's healthy - yes
I’d take him, you can play KG and Powe at PF, and compliment them with JO and Kristic.
Powe would at least know his role as a banger, rebounder and low post player.
Davis thinks he is a jump shooter. Only he cannot jump……..
remember powe told nesen that he would love to come back to boston but ainge panicked thinking murphy was going to the heat hey danny murphy really helped our bench out alot you moron .
lohaus #54
powe has had more knee problems than oden, thats why he wasnt signed.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Get me a back to the basket man
Indulge me for a moment as I get cranky and pine for the old days, but I dealt with last night’s loss by watching old videos of Kevin McHale and I couldn’t help thinking, “THAT’S what we need.”
Why can’t we get a guy who (when you absolutely, positively must score in the last 5 mins of an elimination game, for example) will get on the block with his back to the basket and methodically wrestle his way to the hole for a 2-footer?
I know, I know – that’s not how the game is played anymore. The 4s and 5s looove their 18-footers and their ugly 3-pointers. And that kind of a game brings the hurt to a body and limits careers (Exhibit A: Kevin McHale).
KG’s offensive game has always been more finesse than back-to-the-basket, and it seems like his game has drifted farther and farther away from the basket since his return from the injury. But in game three, when he moved his offensive game inside at least part of the time, he made Chris Bosh (the ultimate finesse “power forward”) into a non-entity.
There were elements of that game that a younger, healthier Shaq could have given us. And Baby clings to his mid-range jumper like a security blanket, the victim of too many years of going inside and getting more swats than a professional badminton tournament.
Can we find the back-to-the-basket guy? Maybe a young, developing diamond in the rough with fresh legs and a lots of grit? A young 4-5 to complement a Rondo-in-his-prime over the next five years? Or should I just hole myself up with my Commodore 64 and my Asia records and stay in the 80s?
Bonus question (and I threw up in my mouth a bit I thought about this, but all options must be considered in the post-season…): Is there going to be a Lakers fire sale if they try to ship Bynam and Gasol out the door this summer? Could Boston be a place for a guy like Bynam to get a second chance and to develop the right way?
Chris Paul for Rondo??
I’m in. Where do I sign? Rondo will never have a reliable jump shot and he will always be a liability in the playoffs. I know he was heroic with the elbow in game 3 but the first two games of the HEat series he played poorly and in game 4 he was a distraction. The other thing is his inconsistent effort. For the last 2 months of the season he was nowhere to be found and we wound up finishing third. He plays D when he wants to but he doesn’t play it every night. He’s also a slight guy who takes a lot of punishment or falls to the ground a lot- take your pick. Regardless, I’d take chris paul right now in a heartbeat.
+100000000000%
Well said GreenInNYC.
I agree 100% the C’s need to find a big man with low post in the paint scoring skills !
my kingdom for
someone who knows how to score in the post. Some big kid needs to be locked in a room with nothing but Mchale highlights and a hoop for a year.
by spinetingler on May 12, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
let's get real here
next year all we’re doing is selling tickets and treading water. Fans should be pissed that we have to waste a year of rebuilding so that ray allen can earn $10M and Doc and KG can have their farewell tour. They’re all great guys but there’s only one reason you play the game and that’s to win a title and this group is not a title team and won’t be next year. OK, so Danny doesn’t have that many options- I get it. My preference would have been for Doc to leave and for us to get on with rebuiliding this team. Among other things, fans need to ask themselves about our offense and why for the second year in a row we can’t score in the 4th qtr of a critical game. One answer is we don’t have a go to guy anymore. And that’s not going to change next year. sharing the ball is great until you actually need a basket to win a game. Doc’s consistent failure to get this team to rebound or to get someone to get to the free throw line are major problems. Doc is a great guy but his offense is old and stagnant and needs an overhaul. So next year we’re going to see more of the same. Honestly, we;re closer to a lottery team than a playoff team. It’s going to be ugly next year.
Ya cause they got steamrolled in that series...
I mean seriously they got blown out by like what… 60 points each game? They had no chance at all…
Wait a minute! That’s not true at all!
This team was some better late game execution, and some better luck from the Basketball gods (like ya know… all those JAmes/Wade 3 pointers late in games 4/5 that had 0 business going in and were god awful shots late in the shot clock) away from being up 3-2 right now, going back to Boston.
The big 3 showed they are healthy, in shape and as productive as ever. You get the bench to click (full training camp for Krstic and Green) and add a couple pieces, and this team is right back in it.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
The truth lies in the middle...
Red2 is absolutely right about this team lacking a “go to” scorer. The big 3 are just 3rd option level offensive players now – the rely on other people to create space and opportunities to score.
However, this team’s core 4 are perfectly capable of playing championship level defense and providing the type of support offense that could really boost them back into full title contention mode.
Just this year alone, the THREAT of Shaq alone near the basket caused teams to drift toward the interior and the big 3 were enjoying career years in efficiency because of it. The splits between “with Shaq” and “without Shaq” were staggering.
Now, Shaq wasn’t even highly productive, it was more legacy than legit production, but it showed how much better this team can be with someone who is a threat near the basket.
The best case scenario would be to get a low-post offensive threat. I’d love to try and pry Al Jefferson away, though i don’t think they have anything to give for him.
But a FT machine SG guard who can take players off the dribble, get to the lane, and get to the line, would also greatly improve the offensive capability of this team.
IMO it really depends on what they can get once the market is open for trades. If they can get a legit offensive focal-point: Be it Jefferson, Paul, Ellis, Kevin Martin – somebody that is lethal scoring the ball WITHOUT help, then they could boost right back into the picture.
But if they can’t find an offensive focal point, they are indeed too old to do what it takes on that end of the court…..the big 3 are done being franchise players – they are amazing support players now…
by BillfromBoston on May 12, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Rondo is the guy they needed in the fourth.
West just doesn’t have the handle Rondo does, nor Paul.
Too many of those turnovers were guys trying to do too much. I hate the injury excuse, but it’s hard to get away from it here. I think it’s fair to say, with Rondo in the game controlling the ball, those “brain fart” turnovers delonte, Paul, and Green had just wouldn’t have happened. Those guys wouldn’t have had the ball in their hands, they’d of been running of screens and letting Rondo create.
It doesn’t excuse it, those guys are professional basketball players, and there’s no excuse for the mental lapses they had. But it also doesn’t change the fact, that if Rondo was in the game, they probably wouldn’t have happened… and who knows how much that would have changed games 4 and 5.
But that’s spilled milk, and there’s no use crying over it.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Also, I agree with your point.
About the instant offense guy who can create his own shot, they clearly do need that player.
It’s a big part of the reason I like JR Smith. Granted, personality wise, he’s a punk and not exactly the ideal “Celtic” but it we’re looking at this strictly from a Basketball stand point, and trusting a veteran locker room to be able to keep him in line… he would be absolutely perfect coming off the bench. An instant energy player who Doc can look too and say “JR, go score points.” The guy can score from anywhere on the court, and is super athletic with a fantastic ability to create shots.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Agree fully BillfromBoston
with your comments that the threat of Shaq’s low post offense improved the big 3 games and the C’s play in general.
I also agree the best case scenario would be for the C’s to get a low-post offensive threat.
I think getting a low post scoring offensive big man should be #1 on Ainges to do list this summer as the bigs this year from KG to Baby (especially with Shaq out the injured) were too perimeter oriented and hurt the C’s offensive balance and the chances to get high % close to the basket shot opportunities..
Alot will depend on what Ainge's plan is for next year...
He may try to blow it all up and trade away the core in this off season or at the trade deadline next year to start to rebuilding process ASAP, which I would not be against if he can get some good draft picks or players in exchange.
But Ainge may wait it out for all the big contracts to expire and in the mean time try to compete next year one last time with this core.
If Ainge does stick with the core one more year and does want to be in contention I think…
They are ok In the back court with a:
Rondo, Ray, Delonte rotation.
They are ok at small forward with a:
Pierce, Green, Pavlovic or Wafer rotation.
The C’s will need help at the power forward position though.
KG will probably be back and start.
I hope the C’s do not resign Baby .
Therefore they will need to go out and try to find a legit back up power forward with length.
The C’s will need a starting center and maybe even a back up .
I assume Shaq retires.
J.O. should maybe also retire ( if his knees are going to be such a issue. I do not want to go through next year what we went through this year with him).
But if J.O. does return he will probably be coming off the bench since he can only play limited minutes, so therefore the C’s will need to find a starting center.
Though I think Krstic is a is a fine and serviceable back up center, I would not feel good about him starting at center.
If J.O. does not come back as a back up center I think Krstic would be just fine in that role.
I agree 100% with GreenInNYC, the C’s need to find some big men (both centers and power forwards) with in the paint back to the basket scoring skills.
This year it was frustrating to see other then Shaq no other Celtic big take it strong in the paint on offense since KG was so perimeter oriented and Baby just did not have the length to score in the paint.
If the C’s want to be be competitive next year and long term they will no doubt have to add a big man with a low post scoring skills.
It should be a very interesting off season indeed.
I am glad Doc is considering coming back. He will be vital to the success the Celtics have the upcoming season. KG, Paul, and Ray would want to play for him. And having them around for one last attempt at banner 18 is crucial. If they can stay healthy, play reduced minutes, and have a supporting cast (bench); we have a good chance.
I am interested to see how the offseason goes, not just for the Celtics, but the rest of the teams. In so many ways, player movement will dictate what Danny Ainge has to do. He needs to surround the big three with proven players; ones that can take over when KG, Paul, and Ray are no longer playing.
Delonte West should be re-signed. Next season, he has the potential of being a potent offensive player when healthy! He has proven that. Jeff Green? I have not seen much of Jeff Green to give an opinion, but maybe we give him a chance. Big baby? Not interested. The key here is consitency, and he has not been consistent. Again, we need players that can come off the bench to defend and score! The O’Neals? I think worth keeping for reduced minutes if they can stay healthy during the season! At last, Rondo. He is a terrific player, but a scoring point guard will be a much better fit for the Celtics! Deron Williams was mentioned here. That would work. We cannot forget what Rondo has done for this team, but it takes good players to get good players! Williams can play the point and he can score. Chris Paul as well. But maybe Paul will join Howard and Kobe in LA to form their big three?! I hope not, but we heard Lebron “Celtics are the blueprint.” Hey, What about Lamar Odom? He would be a nice addition!!?
by Danyck on May 12, 2011 9:22 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
HELP WANTED: AGING TEAM IN NEED OF ATHLETICISM
Athleticism is the team’s real deficiency – exposed in the Heat series – and must be addressed in the offseason. Key needs are an athletic, shot-blocking, big man for the starting lineup to pair with KG (who is getting a bit creaky but is still effective). And a high-flying wing player who can defend and log heavy minutes behind Pierce and Ray Allen is also needed. Hopefully the team can use some of its restricted free agents in sign-and-trades to address these needs.
If Ainge can add some young athletes around the Big 3, there’s no reason they can’t compete for a title one last time.
Get a solid defensive center.
With Perk not manning the middle, it became clear that while KG orchestrates the team defense, it’s Perk who anchors it. Rondo, Pierce and Allen sagged too much on defense since they didn’t want to get beaten of the dribble as there was no one in the middle to erase their mistakes.
If the Celtics stand pat or make minor moves, they won’t get it done next season.
Seems so funny to see so many people talking about needing a center
Also, I think I am leaning more toward next year will be some sort of farewell/retirement tour for KG and Doc. Sure, they will try to win it all, but these guys, especailly KG, are getting old. KG had one good gane and another good quarter in the Heat series. Pierce looked really slow and old by the end of the game. Ray was okay.
I would bring back the big 4 and Delonte, and they may have to keep Krstic, because it looks like he will be the only center on the roster. He should be no more than a 10-15 mnute a game guy, however, and his defense is not good, but they may not have a choice. Everyone else should either be traded or cut. I know that Jeff Green is the kind of athletic player that they allegedly need, but to me that is all he is, athletic. If he was tougher, I would want Danny to keep him.
Bottom line, they need bench players that are more than just serviceable.
The team needs
Iggy and Al Jefferson to replace Green and Baby then they’d be OK. Of course that’s impossible.
Iggy can't be a back up.
And he’s not really big enough to be a full time SF. So unless Ray is going to come off the bench, I doubt that.
Actually for that matter, if they did get him, I think it’d be great to have Ray coming off the bench. He could be your “Jason Terry” player who comes in and just shoots the lights out. The numbers also say he’s had the best +/- impact when playing with the bench of any player on the Celtics in the past 4 years.
But Iggy’s a free agent, and I don’t see the Celtics being able to sign him for just the MLE, and there’s no way they can get under the cap with the Ray, Paul, and KG making over 40mil combined next year. So I just don’t see how it happens.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
off season
Red is correct. Come crunch time we need a “scorer”. Someone who can create their own shot and finish. Sorry Rajon. You can get by anyone but you are not a scorer. Can we live with Rondo driving and passing to new, different young outside shooters? Maybe. Quickness and athleticism will be required and the names that will be rumored will be Chris Paul, Monta Ellis, etc. Who knows if they are realistic or not. GM’s do funny things. It’s also possible that Ainge and the owners just tweak a little and we will concede another year to a first or second round playoff exit. The crowds will still fill out the garden to see KG and Ray’s last year and Ainge will bide his time until next summer when he’ll have money to spend. It will be interesting to see if Ainge and other GM’s try to make some moves around the draft prior to the July 1st lockout to get their teams set up for whenever they will eventually will restart. That way they could have the guys they want and not have to sign guys and make deals in a very tight window before the season gets going.
Green with Envy
Man I wish, I had these 4 years again. So easy to get spoiled, now it’s all over. I really envy the Heat. Next year will be the same song and dance for us. A few thoughts:
Jeff Green doesn’t belong here. BUT I think Danny will keep him, so he doesn’t have egg on his face.
Big Baby should be gone. To immature and inconsistent.
Trade Garnett’s expiring contract if you can.
Learn form the past. Get younger now.
Heat are builit for a few more post seasons but....
they are susceptible to the fates like any other team. Injuries etc. can derail them just like the Celtics, no matter what the ages of the players are.
And, they have not even won Title # 1 yet so lets not compare them to the Celtics or any other championship team just yet..
Baby has to go. If he wants to start next season, I can see that being a distraction and he has not earned it. I do not think we trade KG. Get him a solid back up and give him some more rest. But Games 4 and 5 aside, I think he has a lot left in the tank.
very true - age really isn't the issue
our worse injuries these last couple of years have often been to the ‘young’ guys.
Perk last year.
Rondo this year. And ’Quis.
Injuries can hit any team at any time.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I wonder if
the Heat would go after Baby, especially if he’s cheap. Wouldn’t be a bad starting Center in that lineup.
BOTTOM LINE:
Is if anyone of us was asked 5 years ago would agree to 1 title and 2 Finals in the next 4 years we ALL would have said were do we sign.
Thanks Wyc, Danny and the Celtics Organization for the wonderful memories.
Need more offensive firepower
The Celtics definitely need a tough inside presence who can control the paint.
Even more they need someone who can come in and score points in bunches off the bench. Someone like JR Smith for example. The cause for much of the Celtics woes this season was their horrific 4th quarter offense. They give up so many leads late because the starters are tired and can’t run the offense.
Can’t have 4th quarter scores in the teens night after night and fail to score for long stretches of games.
Rivers went on to dismiss the idea that this in any way resembles last season's sleepwalking through the final months of the regular season (when star players were shut down due to injuries, leading to multiple late-season losses).
"Nothing like this," said Rivers. "Last year I shut them down. They were injured. They’re not injured. They’re not playing well."
RONDO WAS HURT!
The Celtics Will not trade Rondo. We all know about his poor shooting, but he brings so much more the the game. Miami was in the drivers seat once Rondo was injured because they knew he was limited, didnt have to worry about him being a pest. Those triple doubles and 50/50 balls that rondo gives the C’s are needed, he could not perform after that type of injury. I would let Big Baby walk in free agency and target these guys : Carl Landry (Hornets), Deandre Jordan (Clippers) Taysaun Prince, Samuel Dalembert, as crazy as this last one may seem >> Jamal Crawford! the celtics rely so much on ball movement and team play that no one is use to having to create their own shot of the dribble, I really think the celtics need a agressive scoring 2 guard behind ray allen.
Outside the core ... I would keep Delonte West, and trade or cut the rest...all junk
Murphy…junk
Kristic…junk
Green…too soft
Big Baby…he wants out..so let him
Arroyo…I’ll pass
Shaq…retired
JO…we gave him the MLE and no one will take him…sucks
Quisy…his career is overvON wAFER….let him try out next fall
Avery Bradley….probably not worth keeping but maybe
Who did I miss?
Keep West, maybe Von Wafer…the Big Four….AND FORGET THE REST
Is it Soup Yet?
I'm going against the grain a bit
On paper, this team had a lot of talent. Doc did a poor job of integrating the pieces after Danny went out and got them. We were a much deeper team than we showed.
by thereallargejames on May 12, 2011 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
Agree Po except I would keep Green and Bradley.
Otherwise we practically gave away Perk. Give the kid a full training camp and a defined role. We need his youth and althleticism. Bradley has potential so let him also benefit from a full training camp.
Maybe we can trade for Perk……..(kidding, I think…..)
dwights only going via free agency 2012 unless he tells orlando were the only team that he'll sign the extension or go to
than we’ll have a ton of leverage like ny HAD but for some reason got stupid and impatient
The only person that needs to retire is David Stern.
He can take his crummy, crooked officials with him.
I suggest South Beach as a retirement destination.
Amen to that.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Once again...
Why Danny pick Giddens over DeAndre Jordan???
¬¬
Anyway, in this draft please buy an early 2 round and PLEASE pick Jeremy Tyler AND Jordan Williams or Jajuan Johnson
pick up a few good players and make one last run
Draft well, pick up some good free agents, bring back DWest.
For those of you who do not like Shaq and J.O. – they are both
under contract for one more year. This team is coming back
whether you like it or not. The season will probably be half as
long. Get used to the idea. All of your trade fantasies will not
be happening.
Have a good summer Celtic fans. The Celtics are still the best team!
Injuries got the best of us. Until next season then. Good luck to all.
Injury?
Age and poor execution had the best of the C’s. They will never be competitive enough in the future, new bench or not. This team is over, let’s face the facts guys.
have you been keeping up?
Rondo, Pierce, J.O., Shaq, Delonte all were hurting and yet they still would have
won if not for some bad luck and bad officiating. This team could have won
a championship this year. It just was not in the cards.
And this team will be together for next years shortened season.
Nothing you can do about it but keep complaining like an armchair.
and they will be hurting
at the end of every season.
I think it is for DA to make some major changes. the season ended b/c of big baby and I really don’t like that.
From the look of it this is what we have going forward
Delonte/Rondo/Allen (bradley) – good guard rotation
PP and Green – good SF
KG/Krstic/JO – don’t add up to 2 good knees
if we bring back wafer/sasha… is fine, but we have to bring in a talented big, and the problem that I have is that all the available ones in FA have as bad of knees as the 3 above
IF we don't win it, look for doc to take the blame and lawrence frank to take over...
Let's blow this team apart
They are old and they will never win a title again (at least in the current form of the roster).
Let’s trade Ray Allen: 10 millions is expensive for a player his age & skills but his deal will come off the book at the end of next season and it could interest a GM in need of cash (maybe trading him just before ASG would be possible?). If Ainge doesn’t trade him, he will loose an asset because a player retiring is worth nothing. Dealing Allen could bring some young player(s) or some draft pick(s), but it must not put too much money on the C’s payroll for the future, they will need all the money they can get to rebuild.
Then KG? Trading him would be much more difficult because his contract is bigger. I don’t see that happening and I even think that his big expiring contract will be a huge bonus for the C’s down the road. Keep him and use those 15/20 millions to free cap space.
Resign Green (for the least money possible) give him a full offseason to settle in Boston and see what happens. If necessary the C’s will be able to trade him down the road if he is not asserting himself enough (this guy was worth 15 points behind Durant & Westbrook, not bad at all) but I think he will be fine and he can be signed for not much (7, 8 millions? what do you think?).
For Rondo, let’s wait and see. He must work on that jumpshot. If he doesn’t come back next season with a reliable jumpshot, it will be time to trade him at all cost. You can afford a PG with no jumpshooting abilities as long as you have a strong big 3 to cover him up, it’s not the case anymore. If he comes back with a jumpshot, it’s jackpot for the future. In the meantime, if a good deal is offered to the C’s (CP3? A good big man?), they should trade him, I don’t care how “heroic” he was (I think he actually hurted the C’s playing with 1 arm), as long as he has no jumpshot, he is a liabilty to me.
Finally Pierce: the best we can hope for is a more assertive Green to give Paul more benching and resting time. Let’s pray that he will retire with KG & Allen in one year, because his deal will weight on the C’s payroll for 2 more years if he doesn’t and he will be pretty much useless at this point (especially if Green finds his comfort zone, Green must play at the 3).
Doc Rivers returning next year is not a great news in my opinion because it means that the C’s will still have a foot in the “big 3 era” although this era is over now. If the front office still has the guts to pull the trigger on Allen, KG or Rondo, I’m fine with it but it doesn’t seem like a great news to me (his coaching was subpar during this season, the new guys were not used enough and he made some bad choices). If he wants to be in Boston long term, for all the rebuilding stuff it’s alright, but if he signs for 1 year and then leave, it is useless to keep him, I don’t care that the big 3 prefers to have him, they are not the players who matters anymore, youth and rebuilding matters more than them now.
Finally the bench. If JO wants to go for one more year I’m fine with it if he doesn’t play more than 15 minutes. Anyway the C’s won’t win next year, so why not a cheap player who can log some minutes. JO + Krstic off the bench is fine for a middle of the pack team. Find a had-working center (not a great one but someone who can actually defend and rebound) during the offseason if possible to wait for the 2012/2013 season. Resign West at all cost, very underrated player. Drop BBD, useless with his size and fat.
My overall thinking is: the C’s won’t win next year, so DA should ponder his options and wait for any deal that can help him rebuild a new team. The big 3 is expendable in my mind because they don’t have another title in them and “the NBA is a business” as they say, so if the C’s can grab some drafts picks, clear some space or trade for good players with KG, Allen or Pierce, they should do so. Pierce won’t move because of his history with the team but KG & Allen should be considered as liabilities. I’m afraid the management will be too shy “because they won a title, that’s emotionnal” and that kind of stuff, but it would be a huge mistake to not at least look for trades to be made. i don’t expect any GM to trade for KG, but Allen’s contract could be a nice asset for some teams (+ Allen can shoot and he is in great shape).
On one hand, they shouldn’t wait 2012 to make some moves. The future is now, the rebuilding started yesterday when the C’s lost in Miami so let’s rebuild now. I don’t care if I have to watch crappy basketball for the next 3 years as long as the team front office is smart and does the right choices for the future. DW12 in Boston won’t happen, because Orlando will trade him and the C’s are not in the hunt for that trade (not enough valuable assets to offer, + I don’t want Arenas in the Garden), but there are some other players to look after.
On the other hand, panick should be avoided. The C’s won’t be competitive enough in the next 3 or 4 years to win a title so let’s not trade for players who won’t be good enough when it matters. DA has time to rebuild, he should wait for the good trades and the good players to make any move. With all the cap space he will have and the timespan (2 or 3 years), he has a good chance of rebuilding quickly a contending team.
"drop BBD, useless with his size and fat"
I am betting you have never played professional sports lepooo.
Remember BB Davis was part of the 2008 championship team?
Remember BB Davis’s play in last year’s finals?
Only Laker fans and the rest disregard their champions so quickly.
Allen and KG will be playing next year in the shortened season.
Too bad for you. And their contracts will be expiring. Along with
J.O.s contract. Then the rebuilding starts. Not when armchair
experts want the rebuilding to start (now).
Davis played his way out of town with that playoff performance.
And his comments afterward.
You don’t tell a fan base that the playoff performances don’t matter, and you think you can be a starter in the league. To fans, the playoffs are all that matter.
I don’t want to see Glen Davis back on this team, we need him in this series more than ever and he was a no show. He just doesn’t seem to get it, nobody cares about your regular season Glen, you sucked when it mattered most and that is all that matters.
Bon Voyage Big Baby.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
if he reads this blog........
then I don’t blame him for wanting to leave. All he gets is hate here
and no respect for past accomplishments.
He has been playing out of position because of the hole at center.
Garnett is also not effective playing center. A lot of the jump shots
he has taken were with the clock winding down.
Have some of you guys never played basketball before?
It sure sounds like it to me.
I have ...
never been the biggest Baby supporter since I always preferred the C’s have a more conventional longer power forward then Baby who was undersized for the position.
It is true he was unfairly thrown in at center too often by Doc over the years which did not help his cause or play.
But with KG’s career in its twilight and the C’s needing to look at a possible replacement for him (which Baby is not) I think its time, especially after this very poor playoff behavior and more disturbing Bay’s lackadaisical comments after games this series for the C’s to move on and find another young preferably longer power forward who they can possible groom to be a future starting or back up power forward.
we are all frustrated
If you guys don’t like BB Davis that is your right as fans.
I don’t have a problem with him, and would like for him
to continue on for at least one more season as Garnett’s
backup. Our only chance with this team is a shortened
season next year. 82 games and no way can this team
be strong enough for another championship run.
I think Allen and Garnett will finish out the last year of their
contracts and I will be glad to see them as Celtics for one
last year. Until then……………..
Four years varsity actually, been Coaching for the past 3. Plus intramural through College.
Wasn’t good enough to play in College really. I coach youth leage (7, 8th grade) would love to coach high school, but since I’m not a teacher, I can’t be at practice/games at 2:30.
Ok, and GMs who pay for past accomplishments get fired quick. You have to have complete amnesia to that past, it’s great and all what he did, but if he can’t help this team going forward, then you can’t resign him.
I think his comments, his apparent complete delusion to the fact that he was awful for the last 2 months of the season, pushed him right out of any contract he was going to get. Danny’s job is not to waste money on players he can’t rely on, Davis has proven he can’t be relied on.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
I usually agree with you 90% of the time. Not this time.
He is frustrated like the rest of us and probably said things he
did not mean. We have all done that. He may be gone – probably
the only tradeable guy. Good luck Coach Sizzlack (remember me
calling you that before). Good luck to the Celtics.
Davis is just not a good fit...
for what this Celtics team needs off it’s bench going forward. He’s too slow, too unexplosive, too short, too inconsistent.
I wouldn’t waste 2 cents of 2012 capspace on Davis.
If he signs for a one year deal at his current salary, then fine. Otherwise it’s time to move on.
And I’ve been a huge Davis supporter going back to the Powe debates.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
love him or hate him,
Danny is the kind of GM you need right now. the team needs a gambler. whether you re-tool or blow it up, the team needs a good shake-up. this team is too old to go conservative into next year. it will make for interesting viewing in the off-season.
I am in favor of keeping the core together, but
have to keep our eye on what other teams in the East do in the off season, Some teams are built just to beat certain teams. We may have to construct our team now to beat the Heat and the Bulls. Also keep an eye on the Magic and the Knicks.
rondo- career in boston might have been saved with that elbow injury. he was playing bad for 2 months before the knicks series. then he under performed in a 2nd round series that he was expected to dominate playing bibby and chamlbers. it looked like rondo was playing himself into a trade but playing with that injury is going to change how angie feels about him.
PP – is signed up for 3 more years. and he still can get you 18 ppg a game
allen – one more year left so hes stay. his shot is still there, it gets harder every year to get him open. i think he might have a trade clause.
kg – hes done, and i want him to retire. this is the 2nd year hes ran out of gas in the playoffs. hes pump faking layups and shooting fadeways on guards. that defensive force isnt there anymore.
Big baby – he might have played his way out of town. hes been awful since the start of april. so awful that i doubt he will able to play the starter role he did in 2009 where he averaged 16 and 7. ainge isnt going to give him a big contract, so a sign and trade is very likely.
jeff green – i alway felt he was inconsistent when he was on the thunder. that team got rid of him and improved. not sure why ainge is obsessed with him. ainge put his career on the line with that trade so he’s going to give green a contract to prove everyone wrong. i expect nothing from a guy who after years in the NBA still has confidence issues and lacks the ability to string together 4 good games in a row.
JO – I would not mind him being back. hes can still hit the open jumper and take charges and block some. hes still under contract and is one of the best centers on the market.. thats how bad the centers have gotten in this league.
Shaq- buy him out
Marquis daniels – i hope he recovers and the team signs him again
delonte west – i hope they give him a contract
von wafer, nedan krisitc – im indifferent
Daniels is a long, long way from playing basketball again.
There’s just no telling how that is going to work out.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
paul pierce i think as he gets even older, can become just as valuable as a defender as a scorer. i haven’t seen lebron run the ball up the court, look up, see pierce about to pick him up, and then just slows down and have to calculate how exactly he has to get by him.
delonte deserves a contract, point blank.
Avoidable loss in games 4 and 5.
Just a total disappointment in what I saw last night. Game 5 reminded me of game 4 just poor execution on offense and defense. Heartbreaking to see the Celtics blow a 7 point 4th quarter lead with under 4 minutes, but not surprised because I’ve seen it before. Game 4 and 5 was the Celtics to win and they simply gave it away. I couldn’t get mad, but just shocked.
It might be time to rebuild. Does Danny rebuild especially with a possible lock-out? Get some younger and fresher legs. Will KG and Ray retire if there’s a lock out? There’s a lot of questions to be answered this off-season.
Wow...terrible analysis...
Stuff like “KG is done and I want him to retire” is total crap.
KG isn’t worth franchise money anymore, but he’s a great defender and a double-double threat at the PF – these guys don’t grow on trees…change your prospective on his role and appreciate what he can give you, not bitch about what he use to give you.
Jeff Green – Go do some research before talking out your rear-end. Throughout his career, when Green has been a focal point of the offense he’s shined. Look at his OKC stats in games that Durant didn’t play and also the minutes he’s spent on the floor without Durant on the floor with him. Highly, highly productive – far above his career statistics.
There’s a lot of emotional posting going on, which is to be expected. But this teams future isn’t going to be decided in a vacuum, as most of you are doing today.
First, the market has to present itself. You have to see who is available and what it would take to get them.
Second, you have to make a judgement on what is truly missing from the team. This board has been all over the place with speculation, but the key will be in targeting specifics and then figuring out how to address them.
Personally, I think its obvious – the team needs SCORING not bench players, or defensive centers – they need someone that can score on their own and not rely solely on teammates to create shots – Pierce, KG, and Allen are pretty much reliant on others creating scoring opportunities for them a majority of the time.
This team can still play at a high level. But they can’t effectively score the ball when it comes to crunch time, when defenses are dug in and energized to close out on everyone. You need someone that can break down the staunchest defense all by themselves.
If Ainge and company deem that they cannot FIND a player that can ease the scoring burden, then they are likely to begin figuring out who they can get by breaking up the team.
Its a matter of evaluating what missing and seeing if you can acquire it. This team was damn close to winning 3 of the games they lost in this series….but they lack the offensive punch to get over the top…defense was fine…find an offensive force…
Personally, I’d be all about getting Chris Paul for Rondo if New Orleans would do it. I love Rondo, but Paul is exactly what this team is missing offensively – Paul can carry a team offensively by scoring when he needs to and is very good at distributing as well.
With Rondo being under contract for 4 more seasons, New Orleans may well entertain the ability to lock in a top 5 PG(Rondo) instead of risking losing Paul. It gives them time to rebuild.
For Boston, Paul would provide a go-to scoring option in crunch time who can also raise the level of play of the aging big 3. Paul is young enough to build around, helps the potential to “extend the window” for a few more years and maintains salary cap flexibility in the future as decisions are made on the aging stars.
You make a move like that and you can focus on finding a defensive center to complement Krstic, who is a brilliant offensive center. Then a true backup PF who can actually help you defensively beyond charges(rebounding, shotblocking, scoring at the basket)
this team has options…just not simple ones…it’ll be a process – don’t be so quick to toss everything away with a clean sweep rebuild.
by BillfromBoston on May 12, 2011 12:46 PM EDT reply actions
I love Rondo's grit and desire but until he can make a jump shot and free throws,
you have to go with Chris Paul over him. It is a no-brainer. As for KG, geeze the guy was first team all defense. Makes no sense to trade him unless you get some serious quality in return. I think the reaction to a KG trade would make the outcry over Perk seem tame. But I would not be surprised if KG is shopped mid-season. He has an expiring $20 million contract that I am sure some team would take. Ray also has an expiring contract and can be shopped, DA has shopped him before. That would be a major bummer.
Agreed.
But let’s be honest. People are focusing on how the Celtics could’ve won this year or how they are going to win next year. That’s good and well and I hope the Celtics can find lightning in a bottle next season but not at the expense of what happens in 2012 and beyond.
Ainge knows that it’s a bit foolish to blow his load in order to get THIS current team to a Championship level. If you can get Paul that’s great because he can be your guy to get it done next year, but more importantly he can be a #2 guy in 2012 and moving forward from there.
People talk about blowing this thing up completely NOW are not thinking it through. The team in 2012 is Rondo, Bradley, 2011 Draftees, Pierce and MAYBE Jeff Green. That means the Celtics have already set the bomb in place and it’s on a timer set to blow in 2012. If you can get a guy who you think can be a #1 or #2 for 2012 and beyond through trade now then do it.
Do you sign anybody or trade for anybody on a long-term deal who’s just a role player on the 2012 and Beyond team? I don’t think so.
I see next season as the year where the Celtics should look to get young players cheap and develop them. They have Rondo, Bradley and hopefully Green. Let those guys develop. Let Rondo expand his offensive role. Move Ray to the bench and let Green start. Give Bradley some consistent minutes. Draft some young bigs who can play with energy and athleticism. Don’t invest in any role players past 2012 unless they are cheap, athletic, and young.
In 2012 would you rather have the 8th seeded team and get bounced in the first round (assuming we strike out on CP3 and/or Dwight)? Or would you rather bite the bullet, be a lottery team for a season? I would rather that and then get that high pick and sign a max free agent and look to be a real championship contender. Rather than pretender by bringing in a bunch of 3rd and 4th tier guys. That’s what signing Perkins would’ve done. Mired this team in mediocrity.
No half measures. Ainge needs to be patient and follow the courses of action that lead to getting a #1 and a #2 guy in the quickest possible fashion.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
agree with this.
I think you have to go into next year intending to play it out (i.e. do NOT sign any mediocre players to long term contracts. Sign role players to short deals) and then execute one of two plans:
1) if it looks like you have a chance to contend, play out the string, go for the title and then let KG & Ray’s contract’s expire (along with all the short ones) and see what you can do with that cap space.
2) If the season looks hopeless (as far as being a title contender) then you go ahead and trade expirings for as much talent as you can get and from that point, figure on just staying above the cap.
Half measures are the killer. We do not want to end up under the cap without enough space to sign anybody who could be a difference maker. So we either go ‘all in’ with cap relief (by avoiding signing anybody else besides maybe Green& this year’s draft pick to a deal past 2012) or we go ‘all in’ with staying above the cap, trading salary to take on salary.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Very, very doubtful.
Although, they did just ink Z-Bo to some serious money, so it remain to be seen what they’ll have left.
Since they have his bird rights though, and will be saving some money when Mayo is gone, I have a hard time believing the Grizzlies owners wont open up the wallet for him, considering the post season he’s had.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
it really makes me like our fanbase
when many of us, and certainly me included, want mchale (someone with a bad track record in the front office/in the suit on the sideline) to get a spot on our sideline. we really like our celtics. i would also support the move, because i’d love to see us develop a big man,maybe jeff green will learn a few numbers fromt he torture chamber.
how about this for a pipe dream: i would bet you that al jefferson is somewhat ependable in the jazz’s eyes, barring a comeback year from him next season. al jeff and mchale working together again (al was the sexy all star snub that year) in celtic green?
sorry, i’m coping by spitting out fantastical ideas.
I'd love to see McHale come in as the big man coach.
Teach some of those post moves to guys like Green.
But his relationship with Garnett was really strained in Minny, I’m not sure they could coexist again.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
Except Kevin probably could have put up the
same numbers.
I've just got to post this somewhere.
In the second quarter last night when Wade got hit in the face going for a rebound and the ball was knocked out of bounds and was Celtics ball – why did the ref. hold onto the ball some 10 – 20 seconds to allow Wade to gather himself and only gave the ball to the inbounder once Wade began his way upcourt to play defense.
WTF was that? In the thousands of games I’ve seen I’ve never seen that before. I know the Celtics didn’t win, and this didn’t contribute to the loss. But if anyone doubts the allegance of the refs, there was a good example.
If Doc retruns, which I hope he does
We gotta give it one more shot. KG and Ray are under contract, so why not.
We need to shake up the rotations a bit though.
If JO comes back he might be ok starting, but we need a legit backup (NOT Krstic or Davis). JO did seem to provide good defense, when he was fresh. Need to get him on a good offseason program, and limit his minutes in the regular season.
Need a legit backup for KG, he can still bring it but only for limited minutes.
I wouldn’t mind Jeff Green on a one year contract and have him start at SF with Pierce starting at SG (Ray off the bench). Maybe Green could slide over to PF after Ray comes in (with Delonte), slide Pierce to SF (then back himup with a vet). This requires a strong defensive center though (Green can play PF, but only next to a good center).
BRING DELONTE BACK! He played well against Miami and could really be a good bench player if he can stay healthy, and out of trouble this offseason.
Davis, Krstic, Murphy, Arroyo- get rid of them all!
If we do go for it again, NO multi-year contracts! We need to rebuild soon, but maybe not until next offseason (too much money on the books right now).
In recap:
JO-keep
KG-keep
Pierce-keep(start @ SG)
Ray-keep(6th man)
Rondo-keep
Shaq-RETIRE
Davis-See Ya fatty!
Green-resign(1 yr only-start @ SF)
Delonte-resign(1 yr only)
Get a backup C&SF (preferably on 1 yr deals)
This will be difficult, but gotta try.
Of course, this is all subject to all lot of unknowns, and won’t be clear until the CBA is negotiated.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
I didn't think if this but it makes a ton of sense...
A “starting 6” of…
Rondo, Paul, Green, KG, JO (If he doesn’t retire)/Krstic/“FA Big man X”, Ray “Will be 6man of the year” Allen.
This makes a TON of sense to me. Ray is the perfect guy to slide into that 6-man role, and a starting role for Green would be great for him. I’ve said before he’s a guy who needs to play his way into a game and find his rhythm.
I also think a full camp for Bradley will do wonders, and we’ll see him start getting some steady minutes backing up Rondo before the end of the year. Which means Delonte can slide into backing up Paul/Ray more.
You’re looking at (assuming everyone stays healthy) this rotation:
PG: Rondo, Bradley, West
SG: Paul, Ray, West
SF: Green, Paul
I love that look, and there are a ton of max/match options there that are really exciting.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
we have a lot of depth at 1-2-3
Its’ at 4-5 where we are looking thin.
If we can get a Powe and/or Murphy to resurrect themselves for vet min, to backup KG, and we can find another decent 7 footer to mix in with Krstic & JO we’d be ‘ok’.
That’s just not a very reassuring set of bigs for the long haul. It certainly doesn’t scream ‘contender’. And rumor is JO may retire.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I would trade KG...
If it meant I was going to get Blake Griffin or Dwight Howard. Otherwise it’s just plain foolishness.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
My point exactly...
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
The C’s better get a free agent big man who can set picks like perk did to get ray open or there will be no title next year…
Nene, Denver Nuggets – $11.4 million – Early Termination Option ($11.6 million)
Marc Gasol, Memphis Grizzlies – $3.6 million – Unrestricted*
Tyson Chandler, Dallas Mavericks – $12.6 million – Unrestricted
Yao Ming, Houston Rockets – $17.7 million – Unrestricted
Joel Przybilla, Charlotte Bobcats – $7.4 million – Unrestricted
Samuel Dalembert, Sacramento Kings – $13.4 million – Unrestricted
Greg Oden, Portland Trail Blazers – $6.8 million – Restricted ($8.8 million Qualifying Offer)
Spencer Hawes, Philadelphia 76ers – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Nenad Krstic, Boston Celtics – $5.7 million – Unrestricted
Tony Battie, Philadelphia 76ers – $1.4 million – Unrestricted
Kyrylo Fesenko, Utah Jazz – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Erick Dampier, Miami HEAT – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Miami HEAT – $1.4 million – Unrestricted
Jeff Foster, Indiana Pacers – $6.7 million – Unrestricted
Nazr Mohammed, Oklahoma City Thunder – $6.9 million – Unrestricted
DeAndre Jordan, L.A. Clippers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Kurt Thomas, Chicago Bulls – $1.4 million – Unrestricted
Francisco Elson, Utah Jazz – $1.1 million – Unrestricted
Hilton Armstrong, Atlanta Hawks – $0.9 million – Unrestricted
Aaron Gray, New Orleans Hornets – $0.9 million – Player Option ($0.9 million)
Jamaal Magloire, Miami HEAT – $1.4 million – Unrestricted
Dan Gadzuric, New Jersey Nets – $7.2 million – Unrestricted
Ryan Hollins, Cleveland Cavaliers – $2.3 million – Player Option ($2.5 million)
Kwame Brown, Charlotte Bobcats – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Theo Ratliff, L.A. Lakers – $1.4 million – Unrestricted
Etan Thomas, Atlanta Hawks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Jason Collins, Atlanta Hawks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Eddy Curry – $11.3 million – Unrestricted
Hamed Haddadi, Memphis Grizzlies – $1.8 million – Unrestricted*
Alexis Ajinca, Toronto Raptors – $1.5 million – Unrestricted
There are some really interesting names on that list...
And some that may come pretty cheap but have shown potential.
Gray, Jordan jump out as young, upside players who might not get huge deals but could be really good.
Other names that would be great but the Celtics wont have the cap space for (and probably wont be taking MLEs):
Gasol, Nene, Chandler – Potential “Sign and Trade” targets, but I’m not sure the Celtics have the assets to pull it off. Although that Clippers pick could be useful in that scenario.
And finally my “this one could go either way, and I don’t know what to think” list:
Krstic, Oden (risk huge, upside huge), Hawes, Mohammed, Dalembert
Interesting options.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
I would love if we could somehow get our hands on M. Gasol or Nene
We don’t have any cap room though. A sign and trade would also be extremely difficult, as we have very few assets we can move (while still maintaining enough talent to compete next year-otherwise whats the point).
Its seems we have to try to tweak the roster for next year, and hold off on the rbuild for one more year, or go full out rebuild now. Can’t have it both ways, not enough cap room.
Personally, I’d go for the roster tweak, and wait for 2012 to rebuild. We have a lot of cap room for that off-season and could bet set-up well. Plus, if it appears at some point next season the team is going nowhere we could always be players in the trade market, through our massive expiring contracts and young talent (Rondo/Green) & draft pick (Clippers).
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
We do have the MLE, if JO retires
That would represent a hefty pay raise for M. Gasol. But I expect Memphis will give him that raise themselves.
Oden is a bit intriguing. He’s not going to be able to train for a couple more months so no team is going to give him long-term money. I don’t see any way Portland exercises their option on him so he’ll be a unrestricted FA. His upside is still very high if he could ever get truly healthy. A one-year flyer contract on him doesn’t mess with the long term plan and could be attractive to him. Play with a high-profile team for a year with a chance to rebuild your career.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Ya, if he stayed healthy, and really lived up to the hype finally.
Can you imagine what winning a championship in Boston, during your first really healthy season would do for him?…
Guy would be fighting off GMs with a stick the year after.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
get the MLE either way unless no CBA
can use it every year im pretty sure
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 13, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
if the blazers dont offer oden a deal, id jump on that.
so would alot of other teams to though, im sure.
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
for the right price, you're damn right
oden has had trouble staying healthy yes but when healthy has rebounded, played defense and blocked shots while playing inside. last i checked thats all the things we need packed into one.
players have had injury problems in their younger years to come back and play well, stay healthy before. last one i can think of is big Z.
if the blazers dont keep oden, id offer him a resonable deal and the chance to start for a good verteran team with title hopes….the team has wasted money on old guys with injury history, head cases, etc….i dont think spending a couple million and a roster space on an under 25 defensive center with upside is out of the question
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Acquiring a big man is a must since the C’s will lack big man depth, especially if Shaq retires, Krstic or Baby are not signed and if J.O. does come back since he can not be depended on to be healthy or play alot of minutes.
If Ainge does try to attempt to sign any of the free agents above, who he signs will depend alot on if he wants a short term, stop gap measure as a big or wants to try to acquire one to utilize long term.
Since the C’s could use a big man with both defensive and low post offensive skills I will say from the list above if only Gasol and Dalembert could be blended into one player you would have the best of both worlds for a big and kill 2 birds with one stone….
In that you would then have a big that would be both strong on the defensive end of the court and also a very good low post scorer, which is 2 vital needs I think the C’s have and should seek to acquire from any bigs they try to sign.
Not certain, but...
I thought it was $5.7m, but you could be right. If we can get him for the QO, I wouldn’t be opposed.
We need to start him at SF next year if we do bring him back though. Gotta see if he can do better in a different role. The role he played for us this year was not good.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
They'll offer it to him, no doubt.
They have too, it’s the only way they retain the right to match.
Green will have two options, sign immediately, or wait teams out and see if someone else will offer more. Logically, he’ll wait, whether or not he does want to stay in Boston, or think he’s worth more money, he owes it to himself to find out once and for all what teams would offer. He can’t take that leverage off the table.
So the Celtics will tender the QO, and wait it out. If all goes well, they’ll get him for that QO and not have to up the offer. Otherwise, a team will come calling and they’ll be forced to a decision “pay more, or lose him.” Most likely they’d pay more, but let’s hope that doesn’t happen.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
04 + 07 = 11
if im ainge though, i call him, see if he's serious about staying a celtic
id offer him a 3-4 year deal around the QO with the idea that his playing time will increase as pierce, ray age and will eventual start. cant hurt to call and see
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
i believe its $5.9m
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is everyone saying " Trade Rondo for CP3
Have you guys not learned what happens when you trade a key player? Having a lot of talent is one thing, but having chemistry is just as important… We’ve seen Rondo improve his shooting already, aka spurs game, where he went like 6-7. He is a constant triple double threat, and plays with so much heart and passion. I would honestly rather have Rondo than CP3 or D-will.
by andrewherez2597 on May 12, 2011 4:01 PM EDT reply actions
I also want to see more of Avery Bradley.
I think he’s a very good defender, but needs to work on shooting and handling
by andrewherez2597 on May 12, 2011 4:02 PM EDT reply actions
DeAndre Jordan?
Mike and Tommy said the Celts were very interested in Jordan. I think he went off against us at the garden this season.
Don't even think about it
He is restricted, no way the Clipps let him walk.
yeah, he's not restricted.
Someone is going to give him a pay raise.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
dont think it would happen
gasol and jordan would likely get any reasonable offer matched by current teams.
maybe the team could get dalambert? carl landry
of course the question remains does danny give out deals that go past 2012? he’s saving that cap space for someone, something
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
if JO comes back
we are fairly well off, starting 5 in tact.
think green should be locked up.
delonte back for the right price would be nice
krstic, id take back for teh right price as well.
davis, is suspect someone will pay him more than ainge wants to so i hope the team works out a sign and trade for him. that way the team can get a trade exception for whatever davis signs for to use to get other players ainge likes.
shaq is likely done but if he is healthy enough to come back, the team takes him back, at $1.3m be fools not to. bench player for sure.
bradley, teams needs to set him up with a trainer who can drastically improve his ballhandling, passing and scoring (i know thats alot but if he can be productive next year it helps us)
if there isnt a hard cap and the MLE and LLE are still available be smart to use those on some defensive bigs, PF and C.
somewhere we need to find a true backup SG so we can cut rays minutes closer to the 32 mark.
draft, if there are some decent players where we pick, take them. if not, ainge needs to trade up or trade this years pick and maybe next years for a decent player (if CBA is in place by then)
"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
im gonna be all up on you like a spider monkey!
by remembering9ergods on May 12, 2011 4:09 PM EDT reply actions
have to retool.
bring in dalembert or make a run at nene those two guys would be the enforcers that perk was, even though he says he wants to play next year shaq is done and jo might be there with him keep kristic for the bench keep delonte dump green and baby bring in carl landry and there you have it with a team like that we will be facing the heat in next years east finals book it dano ..
lohaus #54
Dalembert is interesting too
Interesting, not sure he has grit!
Jeff Green
6’10, extremely athletic and a decent jump shooter. He just seems to struggle with our system. He needs more time on the floor. I would even consider him starting over Ray just to get him seasoned faster. Then let an energized Ray come off the bench and torch them. I want him back because I see the potential.
by Mrfranchize02 on May 12, 2011 7:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I do not know!
He just does not seem to fight. Makes mental rookie mistakes. Sure he will mature, but just how long will it take? Also does not seem to have fight in him come playoff time. He might be able to post number in the regular season, but my instinct tells me he will always flop come playoff time. If I compare him with Big Baby, Baby has always come of the bench with a vengeance, has been trying for a long time to win a starting role in the team. Not sure Green is like that. I guess he might take for granted.
big men
I would love to see Al Jefferson back in a celtics uniform, if Danny could pull that off without spending too much. And honestly, signing Greg Oden would be very interesting- if Danny could sign him for a reasonable amount, he could end up being the player he was supposed to be. If he doesn’t play well, its not like we lost THAT much. Lastly, I think the celts need a 6th man who can come in and hit shots when you need them, ala Ricky Davis from the mid 2000’s. Maybe this is just because I’m a huge fan, but if the celtics signed Tracy McGrady to a 1 year deal, I think he could fill that role for next season. For the long run though they need a dominant center. They’ve always lacked that, and without the big three, they will need one. Who knows, maybe if Kevin McHalle came to coach, he could work magic with Oden and Jefferson…
The run for a title is done...And it was great!
And we have much to be proud of. This year was this current team’s last hurrah. There is not much to trade. The Big 4 are all under contract and are still capable of being competitive as well as winning the weak Atlantic Division and securing a playoff spot and maybe winning the 1st round of the playoffs. And that’s better than being terrible or missing the postseason.
This is still a very good team. Without all the injuries – especially to the big men, who knows what might have been. But that is all in the past now. Realistically, KG, PP, and Ray are all still good in spurts. But they obviously cannot play a lot of minutes anymore. But their leadership, savvy, unselfish play and desire to win is unquestioned.
Doc will be back and with a little tweaking(Bench depth, a defensive and rebounding presence in the paint and the development of Green in the starting lineup to infuse more athleticism and a running game will help.) A good perimeter defender could also help as well as a cheap 3 point threat.
The core of the team is still strong. I actually like the idea of Green starting in place of Pierce and Paul being an offensive spark off the bench as a 6th man. This could also allow him to save his legs from defending the LeBron James of the league. It also doesn’t matter who starts as much as who finishes games. Havlicek was a 6th man as was McHale for awhile.
I think we keep DWest as a decent backup for Rondo. Krystic could come off the bench, spread the floor and add some offense and rebounding. So while we wait for the Big 3’s contracts to expire, I really think that adding bench depth, decreasing the Big 3’s minutes significantly so they are fresher down the stretch, getting Green more time on the floor and playing with Rondo could turn him into an allstar 2 or 3.
But the number one goal should be to add a big, strong tough center who can defend the paint, rebound and score enough inside to keep the defense honest. There are definitely some decent ones out there. I don’t see Dwight Howard coming to Boston. But Tyson Chandler, Marc Gasol, Nene, etc. could be players that could be around for awhile – Even after the big 3 are gone.
If we can develop a new core before contracts expire, we can add a star in a couple of years via free Agency after experiencing a losing season and maybe landing a future star via a lottery pick as well. Lets face it…Miami, Chicago, NY, Atlanta and Philly are younger, more athletic and are going to dominate the Eastern Conference for the next few years. Chicago has a bunch of caproom to add another offensive option and IMO, they and not the Heat, who are stuck with that cap for 5 yrs are going to be the real beast of the East.
In the West, the Lakers and Spurs are in decline similar to Boston and would require some tweaking to stay competitive with OKC, Memphis, Portland, Dallas and New Orleans getting better with maturity. OKC has a powerhouse of young athletic talent and a lot of capspace (Like Chicago) to add another player to give them even more depth.
I could see Chicago and OKC developing a strong rivalry over the next 5 seasons. So while the proverbial torch is being passed, why not begin planning for the next great Celtics run. Of course, if there is an actual possibility of getting Dwight Howard you go for it. but it is unlikely. So you develop the young talent you have, add depth and be patient through a transition when the Big 3’s contracts expire and hope for the next great superstar in the draft.
Right now, the Bulls, Thunder, Heat and several other teams have positioned themselves for their run. I don’t see Boston being in the hunt for a few seasons. Right now PATIENCE is key.
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