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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

By The Numbers: Where I'm Tellin You There's A Chance.

Above is a picture of me standing in the "I think they've still got a shot" room.

There is a famous scene from the American cult classic "Dumb and Dumber" that inspired this piece.

Llyod, played by Jim Carrey, is talking to Mary, played by Lauren Holly about his chances of dating her:

Lloyd: The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
Mary: Not good.
Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*

When I started thinking about the odds of the Celtics finishing this series winning four games out of the next five, this quote just popped randomly into my head, and it's really the way I've always felt about this Celtics team, ever since Kevin Garnett was injured in 08-09, I've thought to myself, as everyone told me the Celtics won't win, "Yeah, they probably won't...but they might."

And nothing personifies that kind of irrationality more than hopefulness right now. I've said since these playoffs started that I had no idea how they would go, that I was just along for the ride, wherever it goes. Well, the ride hasn't stopped .

But then I starting wondering, 'How often does it actually happen? How often does a team come back from starting out down 0-2 to win a playoff series?'

Well if you've been wondering the same thing, have no fear because I've got answers. I went to basketball-reference.com and went back through all 75 playoff series from 2006-2010 to find those that started out 2-0 on one side or the other, and I found out just what the odds are that the Celtics will win each of the next 5 possible games, and the odds that they'll take the series.

For a breakdown and direct link to the Dumb & Dumber video, click the jump.

Star-divide


Question 1: If the Celtics were any other NBA team that started out 0-2, what are the chances they win Game 3? The Series?

Game 3: 63%, The Series: 9%

Over the past five NBA Playoffs, 63% of the time the team down 0-2 wins game 3. Now, 63% is pretty good odds. That much at least, is encouraging, because no NBA team has EVER come back from being down 0-3 to win a seven game series.

Question 2: If the Celtics were any NBA home team that started out 0-2, what are the chances they win Game 3? The Series?

Game: 62%, Series: 5.3% - from WhoWins.com

This number is a little surprising. Since it would be a TON more work to figure out how the home team did in Game 3's while down 2-0, I luckily was referred to just such a database by Truehoop.com. This database looks at the entirety of the NBA's history with 7 game series, and since the NBA has a lot more parity now than they have had previous, I'm not shocked to see that number (62%) mostly the same, but a little different. Still, 62% is a pretty solid win % for Game 3, so I'll take it.

Question 3: How have past Celtics teams done when down 0-2?

Game 3: 57%, Series: 12.5%

The Celtics have only started out down 0-2 in a 7 game series just eight times in the team's history, and it's a bit of a mixed bag. The Celtics have had a few times in team history (3 exactly) where they were swept out of a 7 game series, but they've have more time where they managed at least 1 win. However, the Celtics have managed to turn that 0-2 frown upside down just once, in 1969, in the NBA Finals against the Lakers (SCHWING!). That gives the Green a 1 in 8 rate of success when being down 0-2, and them's better than House Odds.

Question 4: IF the Celtics can win Game 3, do their odds improve? By how much? What IF they take both home games?

Yes, IF the Celtics can win Game 3, their odds improve considerably, but not to a point where one can really get too excited in public or start talking trash (but that wouldn't stop the forums). IF the Celtics can win Game 3, based on the last 5 years of Playoff Series,

If a team loses Game 3 after being down 0-2, not only is there a 100% chance (based on past NBA Playoff Series) that they will lose a 4th game in the next 4 tries, there is also an 50% chance that they will not make it past Game 4.

If a team wins in Game 3, there is a 48% chance that they will also win Game 4, and a 63% chance that they will win one of Game 4 or 5. On top of that, the odds of winning the series jumps up from 9% to 14.8%.

IF the Celtics can take both home games coming up, than the odds jump even more. IF they can win Games 3 and 4, than there is a 61.5% chance (based on the NBA's last 5 years, again) that they will be able to win a 3rd game and force a Game 7, or even win a 4th game and the series.

So there you have it. Them's be the odds. 9%, 12.5%, 14.8%...take whatever kind of solace you can from them. And if you find those odds depressing, than I invited you to pay some attention to this guy:

Sure, he's just a limo driver. But, aren't we all 'just' limo drivers, in our hearts? Killer boots, man.

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it's NOT over!!!

…but i can smell the fat lady warming up -

Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk

by mcpu40 on May 5, 2011 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Stats hurt my brain

I just hope this team is about to re-write history.

SAVE THE PLANET. GO GREEN!

by CaliforniaGreen on May 5, 2011 3:55 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

i forget exactly what it was but Phil Jackson stated something yesterday that

to be a champion, you make your own history.

or something like that.

now i’m not a big fan of the guy just cause he’s the lakers coach…

but i love that statement.

i believe the celtics will do it !

It’s All About 18

by WikedCeltsFan7 on May 5, 2011 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Agree with all that.

It is nice to know when something has been done before, or how often, but don’t let whether or not something happened in the past decide whether or not you can accomplish something in the future.

"Shaq is like paradise, man," Garnett said. "You ever wash your sheets and then go outside and hang them out, and the sun dries them? You ever smell the sheets? That’s what Shaq is, Shaq is like,"
Follow me on twitter

by Tom Bellinger on May 5, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

"to make history, you got to do historic things"

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on May 5, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

He does have some nice one liners, gotta give him that.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

04 + 07 = 11

by Sizzlack on May 6, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, “to make history, you got to do historic things”.
But there’s this word DO…

We can still do it, damn I hope we can.

by cBoyz on May 6, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enough with the jump shots KG

One thing that would help is for KG to at least occasionally take the ball inside and be more aggressive around the basket.

KG has played 74 minutes over the first two games and has attempted ZERO free throws! That is a mind boggling stat for a power forward who has the game to be a nearly unstoppable inside force.

Rivers went on to dismiss the idea that this in any way resembles last season's sleepwalking through the final months of the regular season (when star players were shut down due to injuries, leading to multiple late-season losses).

"Nothing like this," said Rivers. "Last year I shut them down. They were injured. They’re not injured. They’re not playing well."

by warnerjohn on May 5, 2011 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeh, has to stop saving himself.

Regular season is one thing. Past time to go for broke.

"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"

by Tenacious D on May 5, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

I’m not expecting KG to carve out space down low, but I do think he could run by guys & dunk on their heads. Actually, KG has looked fiesty when Shaq has played, & those 2 generally play well off of each other with their many years of experience. You’ve got 2 totally different builds/ body types in those guys which lends itself to some much needed versatility on offense. I just hope that Shaq does NOT get foul happy spending most of his time stuck on the bench. I’d rather Shaq give up a dunk or two & stay in the game to rebound, post up, receive simple alleys for dunks from Rajon, & clog the lane.
Wow, I’m getting some great memories just talking bout the Diesel here. This next game could be totally different…………..

by Ibemebe on May 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bosh is soft, I don't get why he's doing him a favor and not backing him down.

He turns to turn “Jared Jeffries” on him every play like he did in that game winner.

Back him down, force the double. Bosh is a wimp, just push him around KG!

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

04 + 07 = 11

by Sizzlack on May 6, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not just KG. The whole Cetlics offense has become too jump shot oriented

And the worst part is: Often time BBD and Rondo were the two left to take the shots.

Get inside man!!

by getthat18now on May 6, 2011 5:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

the Celtics have actually 'gone inside' more than the Heat

but they just haven’t gotten much for it. Missed too many shots at the rim: 14 of 27 in the last game. And could not get foul calls.

The heat only shot at the rim 16 times, but got 12 makes and foul calls.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on May 6, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

it'is all about 18

My two favorite clubs are AC Milan(soccer) and Celtics. AC Milan 3 games before end of championship have both hands on 18 scudetto(banner), need just one draw or inter not to win all 3 games.

So, it’s naturally to C’s won No 18 too!!!

by Domagoj S on May 5, 2011 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

its a proven fact

that 72.8% of all stats are made up..

the big leprechaun is coming back and will hopefully put queen james and princess bosh on the floor at least a few times (for some reason i can’t hate on wade, he is just a classy guy) that improves our chances by x to teh 3rd power..go greeeeeeen!

by Dr.Greenthumb on May 5, 2011 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I saw that

And I laughed pretty hard. Seriously.

"Shaq is like paradise, man," Garnett said. "You ever wash your sheets and then go outside and hang them out, and the sun dries them? You ever smell the sheets? That’s what Shaq is, Shaq is like,"
Follow me on twitter

by Tom Bellinger on May 5, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Dumb and Dumber" Inspiration---hmmmm

“When I started thinking about the odds of the Celtics finishing this series winning four games out of the next six, this quote . . . .”

I suspect that four out of the next six will provide small solace; probably need four out of the next five?

“just what the odds are that the Celtics will win each of the next 5 possible games”—yeah I know, each of the games has its own odds but with the previous faux pas I just couldn’t help myself.

by bballee on May 5, 2011 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

1969 Celtics vs 2011 Celtics

I watched that series in ’69 and thoroughly enjoyed the comeback almost as much as the balloons in the ceiling of the Lakers arena. Red just had to point them out as Russ was being interviewed on National TV.

However, as much as I love this Celtics team and KG I have to say that KG, at any stage of his career, does not have the heart or the ability of Bill Russell. Not a knock on KG just my opinion. If Russell was on this team I would have high hopes that we could come back and win. For that matter, I don’t think we would be down 2-0 if this was a Bill Russell lead team.

Having said that I have never and will never doubt the chances of the Celtics in a play-off series.

by PACF on May 5, 2011 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

hope they bring in bill for a pep talk.

"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park

by 808BostonSportsFan on May 5, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I want him to do.

This team needs whoever is still around from that team to talk to them. John came now Russell should come. I think him being there would help them and motivate them.

by JoT on May 6, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

When it gets tied up at 2-2

that’s the perfect time to bring Russell in and lay down the law. Not the Smiling Russell but the Truth Hurts Russel to tell it like it is.

"I don’t think in the past. I don’t think in the future. You grasp the moment." -KG

by SotaPop on May 6, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

we need ideas, yo!

"There's no place like it, and it's ours." - Stephen King on Fenway Park

by 808BostonSportsFan on May 5, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

YES!

For every baby bear, there is a way out of a cave…….

by wisco87 on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those overall #s are slighted though.

As I’d say, over the course of those series, better than 50% of them are badly mismatched 1 and 2 rounds.

I’d like to take out any 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 round matchups in that stat and see how the #s change.

My point is, yes only 6% of teams down 2-0 win that series. But of that 6%, probably 90% of them were evenly matched opponents, where the home team won the first 2. I can’t prove that, but it makes logical sense.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

04 + 07 = 11

by Sizzlack on May 6, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your "odds" are meaningless

Sorry Tom, I usually like your writing, but….. not this time.

Your numbers represent ALL teams down 0-2 (including, for #3, all Celtics teams in that situation). This is a silly way to try to generate an understanding of what is happening now. You should retract this article…. like immediately.

The problem: we are not in the middle of a “typical” matchup. The stats you’re using include a high number of 8-1 and 7-2 matchups, plus some 6-3s too (talking about seeding, of course), and much, much fewer 2nd round series. Why? Because THERE ARE A LOT FEWER 2nd ROUND MATCHUPS TO BEGIN WITH. Moreover, it’s a fair assumption that many of those 0-2 starts that comprise those stats were, in fact, 8-1 matchups, or 7-2’s, or 6-3s.

But the most important real distinction of this series is that, regardless of seeding, these teams are very close in overall ability, as evidenced by their nearly-identical regular season record (despite a ridiculous number of injuries suffered by the Celtics, as compared to the Heat).

Therefore, if you want to get even CLOSE to an accurate statistic reflecting the Celtics’ true chances, you must wade through all those stats and pick out series where the two teams were as closely matched up as the Celtics are to the Heat now. Then, and only then, would you have something worth printing. The “stats” you actually have printed…. aren’t worth the pixels they’re written with.

by DRJ1 on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

What Stats Dont Cant

MIAs new-found defensive commitment, which exploits BOSs well-known loose handle on the rock. Bro-Wa’s athletic edge over Ray-Paul. Just saying’. What can make a difference? Rondo rediscovering his Mojo? The Big Godot? Time will tell.

"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"

by Tenacious D on May 5, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I Mean "What Stats Dont Count!"

(too lousy a typist for the comments section—cheers)

"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"

by Tenacious D on May 5, 2011 6:45 PM EDT reply actions  

lets look at the semi-present.

The bruins were in a 0-2 hole in the first round this year against the canadiens. They won it in 7 (best out of 7)

by shamgreen on May 5, 2011 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Sure they don't have a 0% chance

because they haven’t lost 4 yet. But are they going to win? Most likely not.

The Red Sox suck, and I am the dirt that was sucked in, I am a dirty.
Twitter: @BoldandBrash

by BoldandBrash on May 5, 2011 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

If we go on a 4 game win streak?

We have a 100% chance of winning this series.

Hell, if just win 4 out of the next 5 games we still have 100% chance of winning this series.

I say we’re good…. after all this is Miami staring his quitness….and chuck-a-wade… If there was ever a team made to lose a 2 to 0 lead it is the Heat. All we need to do is score 12 more points a game and we sweep this thing out.

It’s not their D.. it’s our offense…. hello Doc!!

Celtic Chat Handle: Bird

by David Henderson on May 5, 2011 7:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm thinking bout the 94 Rockets down 0-2 & coming back to beat the Suns in 7

but I’d take the Cs winning this in 6 ;)

Then, those 94 Rockets fought off 2 elimination games to beat the knickerbockers in the finals.

 I think the Rockets just changed their mentality & became Uber Ultra Super Mega AGGRESSIVE= new favorite play —-I’m taking it to the hole (most teams are terrible at taking charges. There is usually only 1 or 2 guys who are good at/or willing to take the punishment=hard screen on their charge taker (jones) while the rest of the gang goes Navy Seal on the rim. It’s demoralising to see all those ez baskets going in).

Indeed, from nba.com………"The Rockets ditched their “dump the ball into Olajuwon and have three players spot up for three-pointers” offense in favor of letting Maxwell, rookie Sam Cassell and Mario Elie drive to the basket on every possession.

“Penetration is just hard work,” Olajuwon said. “Max, Elie and Cassell … they were willing to work for the win. Anybody can settle for the outside jumper. We didn’t take the easy way out.”

by Ibemebe on May 5, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anything can happen.

There are two things you can’t count out in this series:

1) Bostons championship veteran mentality to stay confident and not let the odds affect them.
2) Miami’s ability to implode at any time.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

04 + 07 = 11

by Sizzlack on May 6, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Did anyone happen to watch NBA Tonight on ESPN?

Why I did I watch? But of course ESPN NBA Insider Chris Broussard-LB James was on. So he was asked a question by the host in regards to either the Celtics or Lakers having a chance to tie each of their series. Of course Broussard says, " I don’t think the Celtics can beat the Heat. The Heat are a better team and to talented. The Lakers are the defending champs and could possible tie the series because the Mavs aren’t a threat"

Really the Mavs aren’t a threat? The Mavs beat LA twice on their home court. The Mavs have 3 future hall of famers and a deeper bench than LA. So not only is LA down 0-2, but they lost Ron Artest to a suspension for a vital game 3 in Dallas. No as far as the Celtics, they have a much better chance to tie the series because they’re playing games 3 and 4 in Boston. Plus Shaq is playing and hopefully, hopefully give them a lift. Miami might of played well in games 1 and 2, but they played well on their HC. Most of Miami’s point totals come from Wade, James and Bosh. The Heat have the worst bench production in the league.

Chris Broussard is entitled to his own opinion, but he makes it look so obvious. It’s like he’s married to Lebron. Get off Lebron’s jock, now I see why people don’t like Broussard or ESPN. The Celtics better handle their business on Saturday and Monday.

by C'sFanfrmNy on May 5, 2011 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

"Victory belongs to the most Preserving" - Napoleon

"The teams that do the best job of putting personal agendas aside are the successful teams. It's not easy. That's why it's hard being a good teammate, but everyone has that choice." - Ray Allen

by AiTheLAviTiCuS#21 on May 5, 2011 10:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The Mavs are the one team out of the West that I have always been most worried about meeting

should the C’s make it to the final. They not only beat LA twice in LA, but they are the only one of the major powers to sweep the C’s during the regular season.

If they are close in the closing minutes, they are vicious at closing out a game. Dirk’s clutch numbers are ridiculous.

Gawd I hope the C’s can right the ship and just play their ball instead of reacting so much to what Miami is doing. If they go back to playing and not reacting, then I think they can still do this.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on May 5, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

In recent years we've seen some amazing 'history' in playoff series.

For so long, overcoming a 3 game hurdle in a 7 game series was 100% impossible. Just plain never happened, ever. In any of the sports that use a 7-game series format. Heck, coming back from down 0-2 in a 5-game format was similarly Just Not Done.

But in recent year’s we’ve seen:

The Mariners come back from down 0-2 to beat the MFY in 5 in the 1995 ALDS.

The Red Sox, coming back from down 0-3 to win the ALCS in 7 over the MFY in 2004.

The Bruins, choking miserably on their on their own 3-0 lead, giving it up to the Flyers in 7 in 2010.

The Bruins, down 0-2 to Montreal in this year’s playoff opener, coming back to win it in 7.

There are a few more examples, these just popped into the top of my head.

(The Bruins are poised with yet another 3-0 series lead over the Flyers this year – hopefully they’ll stay away from history this time and close out that series.)

So these ‘insurmountable’ leads have not been quite so formidable in recent years. I suspect the increased parity in the various leagues have lead to it. Teams at the top & bottom of the brackets are more likely to be closer in talent these days.

A more cynical view is that there is more money to be made by both the leagues and gamblers in extending series, which maybe makes it more likely to reach a game 7 despite an 0-2 or 0-3 start, at which point anything can happen.

Boston fans have seen both sides of these ‘historic’ turnarounds.

Hopefully we’ll see the winning side of it in this series.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on May 5, 2011 11:16 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This might be the Big Fours last series together.

I hope not, but I was reading the L.A. Times today and there was no mention of Artests clothesline (except for one line) and plenty of blame for Gasol. But it did describe the fans booing their team. After what Jackson has done for them and what might be his last appearance at Staples – and the fans boo. No class at all.

Now I bring this up because the unthinkable could happen. We have to cheer this team no matter what,, and Doc too, because there’s a good chance we won’t see anything like this again.

You know Danny will blow everything up.

by eastie Rich on May 5, 2011 11:35 PM EDT reply actions  

There's a part of me that wants the Celtics to lose game 3...

And come back to win 4 in a row and win the championship.

Shaq’s return will be humongous.

by bfrombleacher on May 6, 2011 12:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Boston is a historic place

Of course the Celtics can make history. They sure can’t climb out of the hole in game 3, but one game at a time. They will be alright.

by getthat18now on May 6, 2011 12:43 AM EDT reply actions  

One game at a time, yep.

One play a time, one shot at a time.

Don’t think ahead, just execute.

"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach

04 + 07 = 11

by Sizzlack on May 6, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm here to inspire.

"Man you are one pathetic loser. No offense." - Lloyd Christmas

by Lloyd Christmas on May 6, 2011 12:55 AM EDT reply actions  

theres always a chance series aint ovahh yet.

as long as they play celtics basketball they stil hve the chance to win this series and grab the 18th banner. As KG says anythngs possibleeee!!!!!!!!!!

by reb0undwins18 on May 6, 2011 7:06 AM EDT reply actions  

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