Doc: "This Is Rondo's Team Right Now"
by Jeff Clark on Jan 12, 2012 6:27 AM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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Pretty succinct analysis by Doc here.
The amazing, aggressive Rondo - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston
"I think this is [Rondo's] team right now, until everybody else gets it going," said Celtics coach Doc Rivers. "We need him to be aggressive. We need him to be a scorer, and attack. That’s a change, but that’s what it is right now until everybody else gets it going, because they are not. Ray (Allen) to me is playing pretty well, but we’ve got to get Paul (Pierce) going, we’ve got to get Kevin (Garnett) more consistent offensively even though I thought he was pretty good today with the defensive load that he had to carry. But I want Rondo to be aggressive."
Once again, I'm not going to make much about the bench. They are important but way behind the Big 4 in terms of impact on the game. Pierce is obviously going through a late training camp and feeling winded from the conditioning it takes to get up to speed. I think that will come but right now he's not there.
Garnett is still not aggressive enough on offense. Nobody is asking him to be something he's not - he'll never be a volume shooter. But in his best years he looked for his shot when he had a good matchup or good spacing. This year, not so much, which is why he says that "Doc has his foot this far up my [butt] right now." I know KG is coachable and I know he's an intelligent player. So either he's over-thinking it (looking for teammates and assuming the play will go to someone else) or he's lost some confidence in his offense (a possibility that he'd never admit to). At least he's still bringing it on defense for the most part.
Can't really fault Ray too much with the way he's shot over the first few games. But he's going to have his off nights and he can't carry a team. None of the Big 3 alone can carry the team to a win any more and if last night is any indication, neither can Rajon.
It is Rondo's team right now, he's the star. However, he has to stay consistently aggressive and he is still going to need some help from somewhere. Hopefully that will come as Pierce gets his legs under him, but we'll see.
Related: The Boston Celtics looked old, slow and sloppy vs. Dallas Mavericks - ESPN Boston
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'neither can Rajon"
No one player can make a team. I remember a few years back Miami had Wade and only him and they stunk too. Rondo needs help here and won’t be getting it from these guys. Either Ainge backs up the truck at the deadline or waits until the summer. Not really sure which is the best option. I don’t think there is going to be the premier talent available this summer that Ainge figured on assuming Howard and Williams go elsewhere (which I am but Danny probably does not).
If you think the current roster is not providing enough help to Rondo
You are going to be in a big surprise when the Celtics rebuild (unless Danny finds a way to avoid it by getting D12 which is highly unlikely). No one expects Rondo to be a wade, cp3, or rose because he more of a pure point guard but he has to dominate games more consistently before he is considered truly elite. There is a reason his trade value is lower than Westbrook, Gordon, Curry, etc. even though Rondo does so many great things and should be considered better.
On the right team, he is better.
But Rondo is never going to be a volume scorer, or efficient shooter.
If he can hit free throws consistently like he did last night though, he can certainly carry a significant part of the load.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
He's been improving, the different is noticeable.
His form looks a lot better, and the ones he is getting to go in are going in clean.
He’s just struggling right now in repeating that delivery every single time. He’s not a natural shooter, he has to actively work to improve his stroke, it’s getting there, will just take time.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
He certainly is improving -- 57 percent last year and 58 percent so far this year
But, the year before he was 62 percent, and the year before that 64 percent. This is the strangest kind of improvement I have ever seen.
Eye test.
Sample size is too small to draw conclusions yet.
He’s also shooting a about 3 times as many per game this year than any year before, so expect some early growing pains as the volume increases.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
So what about him regressing over the last 3 years?
Seems like a pretty good sample size to me
Well, it is really only last year that showed any signficant 'regression'
the prior two years were 64% & 62% – that’s essentially no real change.
Last year’s 57% was on a much reduced number of shots – he dropped from about 3.5 per game/36 minutes the prior two years to just 1.9 per game/36 last year – that’s only a total of 132 FTAs for all of last year. So yeah, that is a pretty small sample, actually.
He’s off to a rate of 5.8 free throws per 36 minutes so far this year and hitting 58.5% of them through last night’s game.
Even if his FT% doesn’t improve much, just the willingness to attack and draw fouls is a good thing. But I expect that if he keeps it up, his FT% will indeed start to eventually go up.
Right this instant, on obviously very small sample size, RR’s TS%, FG%, eFG% & 3PT% are all up to slight career highs. Interestingly it is not his mid-range jump shot that is bringing the first three up. It is a tiny bit due to his improved 3PT% but mostly due to his ‘at rim’ FG% which is also at a career-best 71.4% and where he takes the bulk of his shots.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I said "If" he can hit free throws consistently.
Right now he’s had a few decent games at it, and is hovering near 60%.
I’ll take 8 for 12 from him every single night, that means two things:
1) He’s hitting enough of them to not be a complete liability and teams have to think twice about just outright fouling him.
2) He’s attacking and getting to the rim.
I’ll take that every time.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
cap is rumored to go up to $62m next year from what i read a couple weeks ago
if true, the celtics will have $26m in cap spaceif bass doesnt opt out,$30m if he does before re-signing ray and signing draft picks, etc…danny will keep talent around rondo
by craziness@analltimehigh on Jan 12, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
6ish should get your Jeff Green back.
Who I could see coming over on a “make good” type 2 year 12-14mil type deal. Prove he’s healthy, revitalize his career.
That leaves you enough to sign one elite level max contract guy, or 2-3 starting level talents.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
It wasn't just Pierce's "legs" that were missing last night
It was his whole mind and body, for 46 minutes. I have NEVER seen him this bad. So timid and fearful, it was, in a word, nauseating. He would dribble up and, though wide open, stop and search for someone else to throw the ball to. He wouldn’t drive, wouldn’t shoot, wouldn’t do ANYTHING…. until the last 2 minutes when he finally woke from his catatonia and played like he should.
I don’t know what was wrong with PP last night, but it APPEARED to be everything. Maybe Doc misjudged how he would take the message “I don’t care how you play, just get out there.” Or maybe he had a mini stroke. Or I dunno… jock itch. Whatever it was, it was really, really bad. Worst I’ve ever seen from him.
Playing hurt?
…the foot? PPS done this before, trying to push through (09-10).
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
I'd hope he wouldn't be that foolish.
I’d rather see Pietrus out there for 30 minutes than have Paul looking like a shell of himself.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
"This Is Rondo's Team Right Now"
Maybe this is the problem. As good as Rondo appears to be, he is still not good enough to carry a team night in and night out like Bird, Magic, Wade, Kobe, the Queen .. This team needs a lot of help now if they want to be among the contenders this year.
If no help is in sight, I wonder how many good teams (playoff caliber) the current line up can beat before the All-Star break (if there is one after the lock-out.)
I beg the Celtics to prove me wrong.
I agree with you
Rondo is not as good now as any of the big 3 were in 08. He can’t carry a conending team and never will have the ability to be the leader on a contending team.
Rondo is a great, but flawed player, right now.
I don’t think there’s any arguing that, nobody is saying he’s an MVP.
But he’s more than good enough to be the best player on a contending team, as long as the pieces around him are producing at a necessary level. Maybe he’s not as good as any of those guys mentioned, but he shouldn’t have to be, because he’s good enough that if the Big 3 give him some help, this team has every bit a chance.
Maybe it’s just a funk, but right now, the starters are not producing, at all. This team has found every way possible of losing games. If the starters have played well, the bench has been awful, when the offense is clicking, the defense was slacking (New York, Miami), when all of those things go wrong at once, you get what happened with Indiana and New Orleans.
We’ve yet to see a single continuous, 48 minute effort from both starters and reserves, on both ends of the court. Not once. The issue is not ability, it’s consistency.
Maybe they’re too old for the consistency, I won’t say that’s not possible. Maybe the bench really isn’t good enough to do it night in and night out. But one thing I’m sure of, if this team doesn’t win, it’s not because “Rondo isn’t good enough to carry them” because really, he shouldn’t have to be.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Good point
what I should have said is: If this is “Rondo’s team” right now then this team is in trouble.
If you're assuming the rest of the team isn't good enough.
Then yes, that would be correct.
I don’t tend to agree with you. Pierce will bounce back and take that burden off Rondo that the team needs. Don’t go jumping off any bridges yet.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
While he shoudlnt be carrying a team, he IS already the leader of this team. Ask KG, Paul, or Ray.
by ianboyextreme on Jan 12, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I've been painfully optimistic throughout the preseason and regular season thus far
But we are really starting to look awful and I don’t know anymore if it is as simple as a conditioning thing. I know this is beating a dead horse, but the last time I saw a real pulse and energy with this team was last season before the Perkins trade. Maybe a little in that NY playoff series, but the Knicks were a seriously reduced team then.
Regardless of what that trade meant, the swagger has been gone ever since. I could definitely see Danny pulling the trigger on a deal this season if things don’t shape up, and I don’t think he’d get much of an argument from the fan base.
by redbridge13 on Jan 12, 2012 7:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Agreed
Ainge will blow it up if it looks like a mediocre season. That was the first thing I thought after the final buzzer sounded last night.
by green18, 19, 20... on Jan 12, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
We said that in 2010 too.
Ainge isn’t blowing this up, get over it.
I don’t care if they’re an 8 seed, long as they’re in the playoffs, I will not count this team out. They’ve proven once already no matter how bad they look, they have a different gear they can hit come playoff time.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
This is what I do not understand. Why would we even try to make the playoffs as the 6th, 7th, or 8th seed?! Not only would we have to play Chicago or Miami, but an early playoff exit means a mediocre draft pick. We would only be taking a few steps backwards on the re-building or re-tooling process.
The way I see it, as much as I hate to say it, Ray and KG are the only trading chips we have. If KG is indeed going to retire, why not trade him for some value? If he retires after the season ends, we free up cap space, but have no bargaining power.
Besides, who else can we trade? Marquis? Sasha? Wilcox or Dooling? I am sure no team wants them.
Bottom up, moves must be made. This team is going to hit rock bottom, unless it is re-built or re-tooled. Plus, we NEED good pieces to the puzzle in place BEFORE next season so we can get good free agents to want to come to Boston – for example, D12.
by Danyck on Jan 12, 2012 11:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes lets build around Rondo
and trade for a defensive minded forward-center who can score and intimidate inside.. Someone like Serge Ibaka… I was thinking if Danny did consider Ibaka before instead of Jeff Green…
WE got stiemsma we dont need Ibaka contract
we got a true defensive center with exp will be legit and real CHEAP!!!!!!!!
In that case...
…give him a line-up that will run with him. Start Stiemer and MP. JO and Ray off the bench (or, PP off the bench, until he gets over his funk. If he’s hurt, he should rest). Doc’s got to get over his old-school thing.
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
Proper Leg Ratio
Three youth, 2 vets at any given time
KG-Paul (or, Ray)
Jo-Ray (or Paul)
Paul-Ray (w/Bass/Steimer or Bass/MP)
etc
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
Age is the issue
This team is depending on guys to be the main scoring options that can no longer be depended on night in and night out. That’s what happens with age. Some nights they will resemble the players they once were but other nights they just wont have it and when they don’t have it there is no one to fill in the blanks except Rondo and he can only do so much.
Where is the passion and the fun?
Is it me or does the team look miserable playing a game they presumably love? I sense little to no comraderie on the court. Not many smiles. Only a few chest bumps here and there. KG and Pierce do not look into it. A poster on another thread said it best. They seem to lack the killer instinct. Where did it go? I think some of it went to OKC and Dallas. Perk and West brought that passion and killer instinct every night, even if they did not always play well. West played his heart out last night. If KG has it, he is not showing it much. Pierce looks like he is sleepwalking out there and finally woke up a bit at the end.
The talent is there and I am not buying the lack of conditioning or fatigue theory. Dallas is an older team and coming off a back to back last night. If they are that tired, then Doc needs to change the rotations and consider starting Bass and White Out instead of KG and O’Neal. Maybe start MP a few games over Allen, who looked his age last night even though he is shooting lights out this season.
Ugh, I tend to be optimistic but very frustrated with this team right now because they have the talent to be better than 4-5.
I agree. The big three have aged into nice role players to bring off the bench on a championship team. Kg is rapidly approaching PJ brown status. Jo is a dikembe. Ray is more of a Vinnie the microwave Johnson, and Paul is 1990 Larry bird.
by jurrasicearl on Jan 12, 2012 9:02 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Steamer only played 2:56!!!
What is that kind of garbage??!!!
and JO played over 20 min and KG 36 min which was a lot at center. Im starting to think that Doc is A LOT dumber than I thought.
This is down right stupid. STUPID
JO has looked bad the last few games.
Since the hamstring injury, he’s slow an out of position a lot more often.
I’d agree, we need more Steamer.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I don't like to deal in absolutes.
But it doesn’t look good right now.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
JO
played solid defense last night. his offense and rebounding were pretty bad. I would be happy if JO continued to play solid D. But yes, he is not worth what we are paying him, and he isn’t that great
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 12, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
hey
i’m not president of the JO fanclub, but he, and even the center position, isn’t our main problem.
Although lack of rebounding is a problem, and he is certainly a part of it. Regardless of who he was playing against, his rotations were good and he was consistently in the right place.
But, man, grab a rebound
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
This Team...
does not box out very well. Fundamentally, they suck at it. Can they do it or is it that they just don’t want to? Do the little things and someone will grab the rebounds.
JO does nothing for this team as a whole and should come off the bench or just play fewer minutes.
This team needs an intimidator underneath and right now they lack it. Maybe Perkins was a bad trade Danny. : (
I would say 'they don't want to do it'
at least on offense. It has never been part of their strategy during Doc’s tenure to emphasize blocking out or crashing for offensive rebounds. (It also was not part of KC Jones’ or Red’s emphasis either, for that matter.)
The strategy they rely on is that if they shoot a high enough percentage shot (on average) then statistically they have a better chance of getting the ball back before the opponent scores if instead of blocking out, they immediately release and get back on defense to force a low percentage shot by their opponent. This is predicated on the basic, overwhelming statistical reality that even the worst rebounding teams tend to grab at least 70% of defensive rebounds.
For the most part this strategy has worked well the last few years and is the predominant strategy employed by most winning NBA teams. Most title winners typically rank high in DRB% and low in ORB%.
But if you aren’t making your shots – like us, the last couple of games – then the strategy doesn’t work quite as well …. of course, when you aren’t making your shots, no rebounding strategy works particularly well!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Agree
I think the starting lineup needs a bit of a shakeup. Greg in the starting five has done pretty good. JO would stabilize the second unit pretty well and he wouldn’t need to play so many minutes
Did you watch the game?
Steamer was very ordinary in his stint, didn’t do much of anything really. I wasnt surprised Doc opted for Wilcox in the 2nd half, that didn’t work either. KG and Bass up front was the best lineup for this game and was the most effective. Sorry, but Greg Steimsma has not earned anything in the way of automatic minutes at this point. He can block shots, as a helper, and occasionally hit the open J, but he gets muscled around underneath, has no clue how to defend in the post one-on-one and has zero offensive post game. Coaching is about feeling out the game and opponent you are playing, not just handing off predetermined minutes to a rookie from the D-League.
From the look of it...
Steimsma didnt really get much of a “stint”. What is he expected to do in 2:56 minutes, get 10 blocks and 10 rebounds? We have no other choices. Why play old broken up JO (whose shots seem to always hit the front of the rim) for beyond 20 min? That makes no sense. I dont think that JO should be automatic starter just cause he is some vet. Steamer has shown to be the best center so far on this team. He should start. This should have been a no brainer for doc. The mavs are old, run younger guys…not older guys. JO should earn the starting position, and so far he hasnt. He too is getting muscled around and averaging a pathetic 4.3 rebounds a game. Greg is averaging 3.6 rebounds in almost half of the time. Sorry, but Doc is clueless and has his veteran goggles on that is cemented to his head.
i know he hasnt played many games so far but im ready to start the steamer and bench JO
if the steamer can continually hit that jumper then he helps out on both ends of the floor. JO has looked pretty bad
by craziness@analltimehigh on Jan 12, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Why not try this experiment for the next few games? It cannot hurt.
Start:
Rondo
Pietrus
Steamer
Bass
Pierce
KG and Allen coming off the bench to play against the opposing team’s bench. Rotate JO and Wilcox at center. Dooiing at point. Bring in Bradley in certain spots for defense.
I love Ray but his game is now limited to sharpshooting. He does not rebound, not a great passer, has no penetration game and can’t guard many of the starting SG’s. I must repeat. I love Ray Allen but it is time for him to be a weapon off the bench as the 6th man.
not a bad idea really
I think its time to have do something unconventional. Doesnt mean KG and Ray get no time. They can finish the game when its most important.
I've thought about this too
If 2 of the Big 3 come off the bench and play the opposing bench, they should be able to hold or add to a lead. But, if they come in and the “starters” hand them a hole to dig out of we are in worse shape. Starting the Big 3 means that the score is even, no hole to dig out of. Could you imagine how pissed KG would be if he was handed a 15-20 point hole to dig out of? Every one of the “starters” would cry liek BBD!
Been sayin'....
Wondering if Ray would take it for the team (pride thing). Not that Doc will be likely to try it out.
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
not such a bad idea.
gives the bench offense which they really need. im still in favor of cutting pavs and signing arenas to a 1 year vet min deal and let him be the SG off the bench. bench JO for steamer.
dooling, arenas, pietrus, bass and JO against backups should be a nice offensive boost to the team on the cheap.
by craziness@analltimehigh on Jan 12, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Doc is in possible denial...
…I like the new lineup idea but Doc right now just think it’s conditioning. But you can’t realistically expect a team of 30+ vets to bring the same energy every night like they use too. Hopefully Doc will realize this eventually. How much longer can he use the not in shape excuse?
Not bad...
If I’m Doc I’d start the Steamer for a couple of games and see where that takes the O. Then start Bass for KG if he is still stagnant. So the lineup would be Rondo-Ray-Pierce-KG-Steamer; then if necessary-Rondo-Ray-Pierce-Bass-Steamer for another 3 games. Then play with the starting lineup a little more if necessary.
Ray is a creature of habit and I think if you bring him off the bench, this will bring him down. Probably better off playing him less minutes so he can be fresh enough for the 4th.
The question is....
Is Doc afraid to hurt the ego’s of the now average 3…
they are really not cutting it at the moment that the starting job should be up for grabs except for Rondo.
+1
I think so. He doesnt want to a)hurt their feelings and b)suffer through their backlash of not starting the game. I think the “big” 3 would be fired up if they didnt start or recieve a good amount of playing time…but lets face it, playing the bench and rookies more and playing our big 3 less, could we do much worse?
by Kgwillkillyou on Jan 12, 2012 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree that they aren't playing particularly well
at least at the same time. and they definitely aren’t performing. But we don’t have anything better on the bench.
That seems clear
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
JO has to sit cuz he brings nothing
start steamer for D and rebounding and running. Piertrus and Bass are good for us and if Dooling can play better and you put JO with the second unit, maybe you can get something going there. I also think it would motivate JO as well as take pressure off of him. NO matter what he says he’s still hung up on scoring the ball. Pierce will get going but the bottom line is we need better talent in our front court and that’s not something you can fix through practice. we need a big man and the one we had is now in Oklahoma. I understand why danny did the deal but it will go down as one of the worst trrades ever. hate to heat a dead horse but it’s true.I say play steamer, moore and johnson and develop the youth. the old guys are done
Not sure how the season will turn out...
..but I am sure what you are seeing right now is rust. The heel injury to PIerce, the lack of training camp & almost no preseason. Dallas & LA didn’t exactly storm out of the gates either & they seem to be correcting now. I expect this team to pull it together in the next couple of weeks.
If they don’t, I wouldn’t put it past Ainge to start retooling the team at the trade deadline.
I agree that Pierce apparently isn't in top form now, but how are you sure that most of it is rust that will brush off--
rather than the inevitable corrosion of age?
Garnett has no lift
he has a lot of trouble finishing underneath, gets his shot blocked more than I ever recall. I would not be surprised if he hangs up his shoes after this sesaon. He has that vibe in his look.
I'd agree.
I’d be very surprised to see KG comes back.
The seasons definitely has a “Hold your breath and sprint for the finish line” feel for him. I think he’s realized his own mortality and doesn’t want to go out like Shaq, playing through pain and being ineffective, then hobbling off the court defeated.
He’s going to give everything he’s got into this season, and leave nothing on the court.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
he looks done
lets just hope they are still in “training camp” mode. To be honest I just want to make the playoffs even if its the 8th seed. I would be shocked if we didnt. For the record, I think we will make the playoffs and go further than most people think
I agree.
I think this team has a run left in them, probably just one of course.
But I’m not sure if the regular season is going to teach us anything. Honestly, I see this time basically looking at the entire regular season as one long training camp. Just get into the playoffs and then leave it all on the court.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
as it stands we are not even a playoff team
we would need to win several games to get back to the 8th seed…
by craziness@analltimehigh on Jan 12, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
They'll beat enough of the bad teams to get in.
A .500 record will probably be good enough for 8 seed.
Really, if you look at the East, once you get past New York, Indy, Boston, what other team is out there who’s likely to finish above .500? Raptors? Bucks? Cleveland?
You say we’re “not even a playoff team” based on what? All they’re losses other than Indy and the Hornets have been to legitimate Championship contenders, Boston obviously needs they’re 100% best to beat teams like that. They haven’t had that, and might not have it until the playoffs (for all the reasons talked about above.)
So what? This team is still good enough, even running at 70% potential, to beat the bottom half teams and get into the playoffs. At that point, they’ll either be the toughest 8th seed in the league and pull an “upset” and we’ll end the big 3 era with a 1 and done playoffs.
Only time will tell.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I agree Sizzlack. At this point, find the rotations that work and find some chemistry.
If we go into the postseason as the 6-8 seed then so be it. If this is the last hurrah, the vets will turn it up a notch in the playoffs and give it their all. This is the season I am resigned to and will therefore not be disappointed unless they do not make the playoffs. But be sure that if the Celtics gel at the right time and make all these pieces work, they will be a dangerous playoff team that nobody wants to play in the first round.
sadly, i agree
his defense isnt any wheres near what it was 3 years ago. he doesnt seem to have that “fire” and he’s not taking his shots. someone needs to feed him some 5 minute energy drinks before the games
by craziness@analltimehigh on Jan 12, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
1,200+ NBA Games and 44,000+ minutes
takes a toll. We’re seeing it right now with KG. I think it was Simmons who said that with the big guys it goes in a hurry, and we’re seeing it with KG right now. Completely agree with Sizzlack—he’ll play it out as hard as he can, and then there will be a press conference in the off-season. No way he comes back to play like this—too much pride after being one of the top big men in NBA history.
by McHaleinthepost on Jan 12, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
it has been aluded to all season
I think now is the time to shake it up.
Start
Rondo
Ray
MP
KG
Steamer
Bench
Dooling/Bradley
MD/Bradley
Pierce (bench needs offensive creator, come on cap’n show your leadership)
Bass/Wilcox
JO/Wilcox
I still believe in this team, but that was pretty bad. Shake things up, mix the youth and vet exp. No vet gets more than 30 min, keep JO under 20 fresh min. Really the dude has to come off the bench, it is obvious to everyone. bass gets most min of any big.
Mix it up See units like
Rondo
Brdley
Ray
KG
Bass
Etc, need to mix it up. It can still work. Closers still fan4 and bass, with less minutes hopefully staying refreshed.
Bad game. Offnight for Ray (still don’t think he should come off bench yet, better suited to run with Rondo, and bench needs a creator which Ray is not.
Rondo starting with 4 shooters Ray, MP, KG and steamer means he should drive and kick all day.
by kuekuatsheu on Jan 12, 2012 1:05 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Moore should get few more min as well
by kuekuatsheu on Jan 12, 2012 1:08 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I've decided Doc sticks with his plan through the next three tough games--
and then 2-4 more. And if they’re not coming together then, then I expect him to start to shake it up.
I think Doc sticks with current starters
Because once you lose your players (mentally), it’s mutiny. Benching some of the starters will plant this seed I think. That’s probably why he doesn’t want to do it
Could be and I'm sure he doesn't want to do it.
On the other hand, it might really energize more players than it deflates.
Not a bad idea
To bench Pierce, just because he starts on the bench doesn’t mean he’s a bench player. He can still get his minutes and play in late game situations. Out bench needs someone who can create plays.
Which, if you've watched Pierce lately.
Is not him.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Dont kill urself Rondo!
This guy plays with reckless abandon. He’s gotta learn to play better under control or we’re gonna lose him for the season!
We saw the problem before the season began
No tradeable assets. This hasn’t changed! This is the 2012 Celtic team. Trading any of the big 3/4 will not bring back the value needed to improve this team enough to compete in the new east. Sadly, we are headed for rebuilding mode. It would have been nice to have had a stronger run to end last year, but I believe DA tried to avoid rebuilding by trading Perk and it didn’t work out.
This is sad
Man, i thought celtic fans had more love for thier players. I myslef was a timberwolves/KG fan. Then KG got traded. I was like cool im going to be part of the Boston diehard. But with all the comments im reading. SMH i have never seen “Fans” give up on a team so fast. Lose a couple of games and people act as if the world is ending. Cmon Celtic fans we are better than that.
by The green mamba on Jan 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't think it's losing a couple of games so much as how they've been looking in all 11 games we've seen them play this year--
as well as that we’re now two years beyond what ‘the window’ for the Big Three was intended to be, and their problems do look so much like those that come from losing effectiveness through aging.
I don’t think rooting with your eyes closed makes you a better fan.
Are you saying he has his eyes closed?
I don’t think urging for patience and support for one’s team means one is blind. Even if you start to believe that the level of talent on your team is slipping – harshly trashing the players as some folks have done doesn’t seem particularly ‘enlightened’.
I get that because the schedule is 16 games shorter that a lot of folks feel an extra sense of urgency and that every game lost is more expensive.
But it’s still awful early to really be certain where this or any of the teams will end up.
Two months into last season it seemed like a lock that Boston and San Antonio were the best teams in the NBA. Then things happened.
Things will likely happen (good and bad) before this season plays out.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
never underestimate the heart of a champion
that being said , whatever playoff seed we can get (we’ll at least make the playoffs right?) anything can happen , injury’s to other teams ect… the big 3 know this is their last run , so we’ll see come playoff time , maybe?
Sigh
Derrick Rose will/will not be playing tomorrow coming off with an injury. Take advantage, Celtics. I won’t be surprised if you lose though…just being pessimistic!
So I guess 11 games makes a season now
I dont have my eyes closed. I just have the heart of a “fan”. If me believing in the Celtics is misguided so be it.
by The green mamba on Jan 12, 2012 4:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
A temporary remedy
I was mired in doom and gloom so I just watched some youtube videos of the 2008 championship series and I feel better. Man, what an amazing run that was—most fun I’ve ever had as a fan.
by McHaleinthepost on Jan 12, 2012 5:46 PM EST reply actions
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