Ainge Will Consider "Major Changes" If No Improvement
by Jeff Clark on Jan 12, 2012 8:30 PM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintLet the speculation begin! (Wait, did it ever end?)
Ainge: 'Fair' to say Celtics look too old so far
Asked if he would consider major changes to the roster if the Celtics don't show significant improvement between now and the trading deadline, Ainge acknowledged that he would have to consider the possibility. "I’m committed to the guys as long as they’re going to perform, but they’ve got to perform," he said. "They’ve got to show they have an opportunity to win. Otherwise, I’ve got to at least make an effort to go another direction."
I like how he says he's "committed" as long as they perform. As Inigo Montoya says in Princess Bride, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."
Regardless, he's never been afraid of drastic change and he will have multiple phones working all the way up to the trade deadline looking for ways to improve the team.
So, do you have confidence in him to make the right decisions? What would you like to see him do?
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You remember what happened the last time a drastic change was made, right?
Remember a guy named Perkins?
by The green mamba on Jan 12, 2012 8:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Perk is overrated and over paid. The team is just too old this year. Whats important is that Ownership the front office and the Coach stick together and get throught this messy rebuilding period thats around the corner. Continuity is the characteristic..
of elite teams. I think what ever happens Danny and Doc need to stay in place.
I happen to think that Danny is one of the top GMs in the league.
by businessbmw on Jan 12, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
time for the youth !
veterans should be off the bench,excluding Allen. Time to sign a youngster that is always capable in scoring .
Whats your suggestion?
You seem like a gift from the basketball Gods who has all the answers. Enlighten us with your knowledge!
by The green mamba on Jan 12, 2012 8:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I would start with JO
I don’t even thinnk he’s playing all that poorly. He’s blocking some shots and taking a fair amount of charges. But I don’t like him with the starters. Don’t like the energy when the 5 of them are out there together and feel like the “core 4” could stand to have some fresh legs. Not sure how you do that, but that’s where I’d start.
I think you need to find better gods
If you think I have all the answers LOL
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
I wasnt pertaining to you Jeff i was talking to the guy who commented first. Saying that perk wouldnt have made a difference. Lol lets face it without perk we have become soft inside.
by The green mamba on Jan 12, 2012 11:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We are not scoring
Perk would not have helped with that at all.
Jesus Shuttlesworth: I hate my name. What kind of name is Jesus anyway?
Jake Shuttlesworth: It's biblical.
Jesus Shuttlesworth: Yeah, no kidding.
by jakeshuttlesworth on Jan 13, 2012 3:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stiemer and Wilcox and KG have been rebounding at a greater rate than Perk.
Though his toughness would be nice.
I hope he’s serious about it. What are we maybe 11 games into the season? I’ve already seen enough. Last night I recorded the game, then found out who won/lost…C’s lost so I erased the game. Why should I watch this crappy team and waste my time? If they don’t care, why should I?
So you're saying everytime they lose it's because they "don't care."
Ya, that’s a tough leap to make.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Maybe it's a form of 'projection'?
If you don’t care enough to watch to see if they care ….
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
This right here
It was a great 5 years longer then they were posed to be together but iont wanna see a return to the 06-07 years try to pry a disgruntled young star player from somewhere this team needs a shot in the arm
Probably true.
When they came together, we thought 3 year window max. We lost KG for one of those years, and then they made a real nice run at it the next year, and came within 7 minutes of a second championship.
At this point, we didn’t even expect to be talking about this team right now, so it’s hard to really say we can be surprised. Father time catches all.
That being said, I still think this team has one last run in them, and I think we’ll see it. I don’t know if it will be enough, but they are not going to just limp away as a non-playoff team, or get swept in the first round.
We’ll see some of that old spark again, and one final epic playoff series, they may not have enough left. But they’re going to give Chicago or Miami a scare come playoff time, they’re going to leave everything on the court. Mark my words, it will happen.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Yes, I do think the time has come to make a move
I don’t know who should get traded because I don’t know who other teams are willing to give and take.
i wonder if blowing up the big 3 is even possible at this point?
is anyone gonna give up anything of value for one year of kg and one year of ray?
Ray has a much better chance of bringing something of value back, KG not so much.
You just got Rondo'd
I doubt it
I think the guys stay together this year. He’ll try to trade guys but i don’t see takers. Good bye big 3. You got us a title.
I could see a Baron Davis-ish trade
Where you give up KG’s expiring contract for a bad multi-year deal and an unprotected first round pick from a bad team. If I were going to shop Garnett, that is what I would ask for, with a commitment to rebuilding rather than contending next season.
Sad to say, but to all but title contenders
KG and Ray would be no more than expiring contracts (in terms of why anyone would trade for them).
Whether or not it's time to blow it up...
I’d say it’s still too early to write the Celtics off. The Miami Heat started last season something like 8 – 9 I was just reminded.
Time will reveal all and if the Celtics are still playing like they are now come the trade deadline then, by all means, Ainge should make major roster moves if the right pieces to trade for are available. Otherwise through the draft and free agency if no worthwhile trades are possible which might be the case.
That being said – I’m liking the Celtics bench a lot and I think there will be significant improvement just by having these guys play together and with the starters for a few more weeks. Rondo and Ray have played well individually. KG may have lost a step to old age but there’s no way that Paul Pierce got this much worse from last season to this just within the past 7-8 months. He will definitely improve his game in the coming weeks.
To me it looks less like the Celtics are lacking in terms of pure talent and more like they still haven’t figured out how best to use what they have currently.
That was because the Heat hadn't played together and weren't a natural fit to do so.
The Celtics have started slow because the guys who were their best players are old and they can’t move or jump like they used to.
More games were likely to help the Heat, but they’re not likely to fix Father Time for the C’s.
I would make a trade...
That would bring in another draft pick in the upcoming draft. Without trading Rajon, though. I also dont think trading any of the big 3 is even viable, let alone moral unless theyre going to a contender. I just dont know what contender needs one of them.
I'm just hoping Rondo is untouchable for this season at least...
Besides being an awesome player, he is our point guard… the coach on the floor.
Coach on the floor, but
only plays when he feels like it. Thats rondo alright!
dont really see
how thats true at all. I guess he felt like it when his arm was dangling out of its socket
by ianboyextreme on Jan 12, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
i just dont see what can be done that makes sense.
rondo shouldnt be traded because you wont get a PG as good as him.
pierce still has it and while he struggled the last few games should bounce back and should retire a celtic.
ray has been lights out, is an expiring contract and wants to stay a celtic. when reggie miller signed his last deal, also as he was turning 38 he took $5m a year. can see ainge passing on a deal like that.
jo i would trade in a heart beat if would could get something of value in return but i dont we get anything good with the way he’s playing.
KG is most logical but at his age and salary with his decline and teh fact he said it was his last season we wont get good young talent and picks in return and it takes away our salary we have available to spend next year
i just dont see any deals that would make sense unless danny does the unthinkable and trades pierce
by craziness@analltimehigh on Jan 12, 2012 9:02 PM EST reply actions
i have no doubt though
that if he can trade the two 1st rounders and a guy like JO for an established young player or two he would do it
by craziness@analltimehigh on Jan 12, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
i really dont wanna trade those piccks with this next draft
by ianboyextreme on Jan 12, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, the draft coming up is deep.
There are legitimate NBA ready impact players who could fall into the 15-20 range, easily.
There are guys who can be had there that you could argue would probably be lottery picks in any other draft. He’s not going to give up those assets, not unless there’s a deal he can’t say no to.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Out of the Big 3...
…only Ray and KG are tradeable. PP still has two years and 20+ mil left on his contract. Which GM would want that? I can see Ray and KG going to a contender like the Spurs or Dallas for one last run at another ring though. Maybe Larry will do us a favor and take Ray so the Pacers can still say they have the all time 3 point king.
But I trust Danny more than would a lot of other GM’s out there to make the right call.
trade kg and ray for who ? and what ?
what contenders are going to be interested will danny hand over garnett or allen to the heat or bulls nohah for garnett ? joel anthony for ray ray ? i dont think this would happen the mavs would consider garnett but who do they have to give us they have a aging roster to i really dont see a deal that fits our needs. look stop the panic button yeah they have been playing like they have the i dont give a crap attitude and we are the mighty big 3 but they havent gotten on a real winning streak just yet either. i still say they are a top 5 team in the east and if the slip to a 8th seed trust me i dont think the bulls or heat would wanna play a 8th seeded playoff battle tested celtics team with a chance of a major upset lets see what danny boy brings us at the trade deadline we sure could use a better big man then JO he is just useless anymore. trust me next year this team will look alot younger and diffrent next season alot of decent free agents coming out next year with kg and ray ray coming off the books we should fill the roster pretty good its time to reload not rebuild.
lohaus #54
agree with u i think ray come back cheap but as a bencher
also i think ainge be smart give stiemsma long contract it would be cheap and he can produce and if not could be a trade chip
not really sure anything can be done to move KG or Ray
their expiring deals so Danny can’t move them in a salary dump. He’d have to take back salary close to matching theirs and no team would trade several good young players on reasonable deals for either one of them.
Danny’s best option will probably be to just let KG, Ray and JO expire, sign some placekeeper FA’s next year (DH isn’t coming here) and then use the available cap space in 2013 to get a couple of really good FA’s.
perkins would have made a difference but he wouldn't be here. They wouldn't have given him enough money if the trade hadn't happened
Plus we lost PP’s back up, Green. Dannys best bet this year was then to bring in size on the cheap(Wilcox, Steems), get a nice back up wing for PP(Pietrus), and hope Ray and Rondo were at least as good as last year. The original plan to fill in youth around the old guys has fallen apart because we don’t have any young Rondo running mates, weve got old guys around old guys mostly.
Oh well. I had a dream last night I was at courtside with a friend at a playoff game and we left the game when we were down 6 with 30 secs to go. (Id never really do that) When we got to the car we found out we won. It was a nice dream.
It's Inigo Montoya
“Indigo” is a copying tool.
There isn't much Danny can do right now
To make this team a title contender this season unless he gets Otis Smith drunk and trades Rondo and JO for Howard (thats because there is nobody on this team with much trade value besides Rondo). Even if our current form continues I’d just use this as a write off season and concentrate on the offseason where he can pull out another magic set of trades / signings.
Seems right to me.
Before the season started, I guessed that our record would be 30-36 in some annual guess our record contest. The inevitable is playing out before our eyes. We really only have one asset that people want; Rondo. Though still good players, Ray and KG are valued more as expiring contracts than for their ability this year, and we’d have to take on nearly as much salary in return, and that would probably be in the form of players the other team doesn’t think merit long term financial commitments. Doesn’t sound too appealing from our perspective. So this whole ‘make a big move’ business sounds like bluster from Danny. We’re better off just riding this season out, and having cap room. I mean, who’s gonna give up young promising assets for KG and Ray at this point? Probably nobody, and I’m not interested in decent vets in return just to stay respectable (i.e. avoid bottoming out) but not be a legit contender. Danny rightly blew up a team that could have made the playoffs but had zero chance at a title, and no upside. He’ll need to rebuild again with young talent, like last time, and we’ll likely see a lot of losing over the next couple of years. Unless you’re a hot free agent destination, you don’t usually attract star free agents unless you’re already on the cusp of a title, which we clearly are not, so you generally have to be pretty horrible to land the top talent in the draft. This is simply a year that must be played out with the hand we’re dealt, then the rebuild begins in earnest next year, unless by some miracle somebody wants to give up young, promising talent for KG and/or Ray. I simply don’t see it happening.
You may be right, and that may well be what Danny does.
But he’ll explore the options anyway.
Make this team tougher. . .
like what we r use to seeing. I say trade JJJ, marquis, and a pick to get the toughest guy we can get for that price like Tyrus Thomas
Im sure this a little far fetched
But i think we need to find a way to get oj mayo and rudy gay. I would say do whatever it takes excpet for trading rondo. I do t kno who memphis would want but the grizzlies havent been the same team since gay came back and oj mayo seems to be in and out of the dog house. Both would be a excellent fit with rondo. The combination of those 3 may not win a championship right this yr or next but build some chemistry with those 3 and something great could happen. Like i isaid, im sure its far fetched but at right price almost anyone could be tarded for. It all depends on what DA is willing to do.
It wasnt just the big 3 that won that championship
They had a solid supporting cast Perk, Powe, Allen, Posey. I feel like the blame falls to much on the big 3 for being “old”. Overrated maybe these players were but they did fit in the boston puzzle and made us a elite team.
by The green mamba on Jan 12, 2012 11:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Overrated?
Garnett, Pierce and Allen are overrated?
by C'sFanfrmNy on Jan 12, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry my bad. The structure of my post was jumbled. People keep saying Perk, Allen etc.. Are overrated.
by The green mamba on Jan 12, 2012 11:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Perk, Powe, Allen, House and Posey. They all played tough and intense defense. That’s been missing since 2008, but in fairness Ainge has done nothing to fix that defense hole. I guess guys like Dooling, Pietrus, Daniels, Bradley and Sasha fill those defensive holes.
by C'sFanfrmNy on Jan 12, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
P. J. Brown was the backup center then, and very much contributed
after he jointed that year. Especially since Perk became injured in the finals.
I think no one in the core 4 will be traded this season
I guess DA will have to play with his remaining cards: JO and his expiring contract, our 3 picks (2 1st rounders and 1 2nd rounder) for next season, and if available our 2 rookies which are not given playing time.
My prediciton would be a rental for Chris Kaman, or a young headcase like Mayo or Beasley. If lucky enough and DA would think Josh Smith would be a future PF for this team, then he will pull the trigger to let Smith fill 1 out of the 2 max/big contract that the C’s could sign for next season. I hope Ainge showcase his geniuses once again.
Ainge Will Consider “Major Changes” If No Improvement
I read this article earlier today. I can understand where Ainge is coming from. It’s tough to watch this Celtics team struggle at the moment. I didn’t watch last night’s 3rd quarter because it was awful to watch. I get that the 2012 season was rushed, Pierce was injured, but the Celtics should not be struggling offensively or not rebounding against teams like Dallas, Miami, New Orleans, Wizards, Pacers and Dallas.
At the moment the Celtics don’t look interested. Garnett and Pierce doesn’t look interested especially when they struggle. JO is not providing much in the middle, and these habits are showing.
It's also could be a bit of posturing by Danny.
Motivation tactic designed to scare guys on the team and get them to step up.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Ainge will be open to any trade
I feel Danny will be open to any trade which will help the team. He once said Red should have traded Bird towards the end of his career. If our team does not start looking competitive, Danny will not have any problem trading any of the big 3 for young talent and/or draft picks. Much like last season where he traded Perk, Danny is not interested in just making the playoffs, he wants to win it all. If he feels the current group can not win it all, he will start making some calls. I agree with this philosophy.
By another direction he means rebuilding
What other direction makes sense. But, unfortunately, I think it’s a bit too late. Ideally, he could get a mid first round pick and expiring filler for Ray Allen or Garnett. But, I looked around the league … and there are no contending teams that have traded for mid-round picks, or have young expendable talent. Don’t see any real deals going down. Funny, Ainge pledged not to pull a “Red Auerbach” with his big 3, but that’s EXACTLY what he’s doing.
Yes, I think he did it for harmony with his owners, coach and players.
Still, he was the designated driver for the group and they’re now in a pretty deep ditch.
waiting game
It might be necessary to just ride it out, and see where the mix of draftees and cap space FA’s will bring us next year. If this is how we go, Doc better learn to play young guys. Ray would be great as a sixth man next year (cheap contract as possible)- but Danny should investigate his feelings now to better determine his plan. Perk was going to be too expensive so we got a great potential in Green (hindsight makes it seem bad, but it could have been a GREAT move). Much as i like Ray, if he wants a bunch of money, it would be either to trade him mid season. KG too. I hear Green would be open to Celtics next year, and if could be had, you might get another creator (wing) and let pierce come off the bench. Use draft picks to get Cousins or Love, etc- and let Rondo run,run,run. If nothing else it will be entertaining. Losing slow is uglier somehow.
Hello Dwight
wishful thinking..
"I’m going to probably fade to black,’’ he said. "To be honest, I’m not a showman guy. I’m going to fade to black. I don’t know what I will do. I’m an idealist. I have a high drive and I’m very determined. Fade to black, man, like evaporate.’’
by TheBigFive on Jan 12, 2012 11:53 PM EST via Android app reply actions
For now I honestly think we should wait a couple weeks
Before we go nuts. Remember as recently as last year this starting team could beat the Bulls or the Heat on a given night. It’s very tempting to push the panic button but it’s fair to wait a little while. I fully trust Doc when he says they need a little more time.
If these guys prove they can’t win ballgames and Danny makes a move then it should be for CHAMPIONSHIP pieces now and in the future, not some dead end deal for 3 second round picks 2 spare parts and a pack of doublemint gum. Be smart about the moves. DANNY DON’T TRADE ANYONE for a 2012 Joe Klien and Ed Pinkney.
That being said we are in a position to make some statement wins right now and right the ship for banner 18 with this group, I think they have the right stuff they just need to stop messing around and score and rebound and WIN.
What is Doc supposed to say, "Our core players are too old to play at a high level now, and it really shows?"
“I expect we’ll never be above .500?” “I think even an 8th seed might be out of reach this year?”
No confidence in Danny anymore
My confidence in Danny’s abilities as GM has nearly vanished since 2007. Below is a list of guys who have passed through our team and now play for other NBA teams, each of which Danny saw fit to throw away, most for basically nothing.
Some will say that one or another of these is unfair, or some such excuse. The bottom line though is that it seems Danny does not know what the hell he’s doing anymore.
Kendrick Perkins
Delonte West
Tony Allen
Bill Walker
Marquis Daniels
Troy Murphy
Nate Robinson
Eddie House
Von Wafer
James Posey
Leon Powe
Shelden Williams
Luke Harangody
… oh, and he passed on Norris Cole in favor of… I’m sorry, what his name again??
tony allen and maybe perk the only ones i wish danny had kept long term
every one of those other guys is so easily replaceable. i mean harangody? really? and if anything danny has done a good job of replacing them for guys with less money. and as for drafting… he definitely hasnt gotten it right every time but who has? at the end of the round its definitely a lot harder but with early picks hes gotten al jefferson, perk, allen, rondo etc so i trust him if we go into rebuilding mode to get some good players
Yeah, I really miss Shelden Williams lol. What was he doing, letting him walk. Out of that list, I’d say Tony Allen was his biggest misstep. The timing of the Perkins deal was unfortunate, but we certainly didn’t throw him away for nothing. Delonte perhaps, although you could argue he wanted a more durable backup guard. Which, considering West’s injury history, isn’t unreasonable.
"Can't eat sushi in Utah, brother. Landlocked."
by IsItTheShoes on Jan 13, 2012 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
I believe we should trade our GM.
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 12:04 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Mamba huh?
Like kobe?
Jesus Shuttlesworth: I hate my name. What kind of name is Jesus anyway?
Jake Shuttlesworth: It's biblical.
Jesus Shuttlesworth: Yeah, no kidding.
by jakeshuttlesworth on Jan 13, 2012 3:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yep try being a celtic fan in LA. Its hard enough to defend my team against laker fans but im finding out its harder to defend my celtic players from celtic fans lol
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 12:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
this is all so stupid
we have a Celtics team before us that won a championship. there is literally no greater collection of personalities on any NBA team than we have in that locker room. who would you rather have? Carmelo “i’ll play when and where I want to” Anthony? Chris “I’d rather sit on the beach” Paul? Lebron “4th quarter” James? No, people want to trade KG and Ray Ray for backup centers and 39% shooting, dime-a-dozen rookies and 2nd years. We have a team of guys who bust their butts every single day, who are proud to play under the 17 banners and have laid it all down for us, the fans, for the past 4 years. CHAMPIONSHIPS. ARE. RARE. Milk this team for all they’re worth and start re-building next year. Not 9 games into the season.
agonizingly true, but...
In this day of greed and selfishness, there is no greater example of TEAM than the Celtics. I appreciate their attitude and professionalism. Years ago i coached a JV team to a championship. Like the Celtics, they were unselfish, hard workers and a pleasure to coach. Like the current Celtics, they were not great athletes, and had to play nearly flawless to beat good teams. At the JV level they “out smarted” other teams. But when I (and the same team) moved to varsity, their lack of athleticism was exposed. Same kids, different results. Not from lack of effort… in fact I marveled at their effort every night, but we ended up a little over .550 win %. They did all they could, but in HS you can’t make a trade. We can – but will it be one that shapes the future?
appreciated, but...
the C’s are no JV team. they came within 5 points of a championship, largely with the same degree of (or lack of ) athleticism, less than 2 years ago. they did it with smothering defense and high efficiency offense.
now granted, a team like the Heat pose a unique challenge.. but the C’s spent too much gas on the regular season last year, the Perk trade blindsided them, and rondo’s injuries didn’t help. I still like their chances in a 7 game series against anyone.
by JunkyardDawg on Jan 13, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Agree
Even though having a headcase superstar would be entertaining for us bloggers.
Give me Chris Paul in a heartbeat
Seems to me that Rondo also has a little of that “I’ll play when I feel like it” in him.
Didn't Ainge say he'd give it a month into the season?
I thought that’s what he said. If so, that leaves about 2 weeks. Maybe he waits through the home-heavy part of the schedule which ends on February 15.
If we haven’t made hay by then, it’s definitely time to start preparing for the future. I suppose there will probably more opportunities around the trade deadline which is later this year. I expect something to happen one way or another.
"commited to guys as logn as they perform"
that tells me rondo,bass & ray is safe
thats a great idea danny you cant enter the playoffs with this current celtics roster.
trade pierce, garnett, allen and JO these guys are done.
Are you sure of that? This team wont make the playoffs? You really think so?
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 1:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Don’t feed this guy, all he does is say the same thing over and over again. I think he’s just looking for a reaction.
"Can't eat sushi in Utah, brother. Landlocked."
by IsItTheShoes on Jan 13, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
All of you are itching to trade the big 3 but..
Who the hecks gonna take on huge salaries? And what do we get in return? Face it our only valid trading chip is Rondo.
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 12:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions
You'd have to take on bad contracts.
So you’re looking at guys like Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Okafor.
Guys who have 2-3 years on their deals, and are albatross contracts, teams would be willing to trade them, giving up draft picks, to get an expiring deal.
If you do that, you start stock piling talent for 2-3 years while you wait for those contracts to expire. In other words, you can’t sign any free agents, and you’re resigning the team to being terrible while you try to cash in on those picks you acquire, and let those contracts expire.
The only other option, is he rides this team into the ground, and tries to score in free agency to rebuild on the fly.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
in case people were wondering
right now (small sample i know) perk is the 50th (out of 56) best center according to PER of 9.07. number 51 is Jermaine Oneal and they have the same estimated wins added (-.2). i think its safe to say kg/the rest of the starters made perk a little better than he was. and i say this loving perk as a player and what he brought to the team
Perk just made you think twice of taking it to the hoop or posting him up. He brought intangibles that cant be measured by stats. And the other thing is he fit the system perfectly. If we had perk you think we wouldve lost game 7?
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 1:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
i absolutely think we wouldve won game 7
like i said i love the intangibles. but 4 years/35 mil is too much for intangibles IMO. obviously the jeff green part of the equation hasnt worked out for us either. but those numbers i just put helps lessen the bitterness
I feel you. But weve been looking for a replacement going on 2 years now. We just never been the same team since perk left. We have gotten soft on the inside. After this year we have no center no PF no SG left. It wouldve been nice to still have perk and just look for a PF and a SG next year.
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 1:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
We are in the 2nd season in losing perk. I should have put NBA years if i only knew you were going to be so critical.
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What are you talking about...
We did win game 7, it’s just that Joe Crawford stole it away from us. Come on, 21 FT’s in the 4th quarter? Lolol.
I'm a homer as much as anyone else, but that argument is ridiculous.
Were there some questionable calls? Not a question about it.
But the bottom line is the Lakers were the aggressors in that quarter, while the Celtics essentially sat back on their heels and tried to hold on for dear life. So when you have one team relentlessly pounding the ball inside, and another settling for jumpshots, the numbers at the end are going to look bad/
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
This is a tough one to call for me.
At the time, I didn’t even really think about the refs. I just looked at the number of minutes played by Sheed and KG without Perk to rotate in and thus at how tired they obviously were and I know that tired big men end up committing fouls (because they slow down and can’t keep up with speedy little guys). Which is what happened. So I have no problem believing in my mind that Perk’s absence from the big man rotation is what cost us the championship.
That said, when I’ve watched in review many times since then, I have to admit, the refs did make a lot of really, really, really ridiculous calls. Whether they ‘stole’ it is arguable depending on whether you believe in corruption or incompetence. But they definitely had a huge influence on the outcome of the game and that is simply not a good thing.
And anybody who watched the Laker’s v Kings series back in 2002 – you just can’t trust the refs at all ever since.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Ray has been playing well, Pierce is the captain and always been a C, and KGs contract is terrible
So, who are we gonna trade?
Even if Ray's playing well, if the rest of the team is terrible and Danny can swing, say, a draft pick or two or a good young player and another expiring contract--
you gotta do it. Same with KG.
Pierce will be too hard to trade, for sure.
This is entirely reasonable from Ainge. The current level of play is unacceptable and he's simply echoing that sentiment.
However, the phrases “major changes” and “blowing it up” aren’t magic words which guarantee us another championship roster. If we were to “blow it up” and ship KG/Ray out of town, we certainly wouldn’t get fair compensation in return. If we deal them to a contender, any picks we get wouldn’t be high enough. Also, these hypothetical contenders almost certainly wouldn’t deal a good player (read: key member of the rotation) in return and potentially mess with their chemistry. Supposing we trade with a lottery team, I am highly sceptical that any bottom feeders would be willing to give up a valuable draft pick for a 20 game rental of KG or Ray.
Therefore, the best course of action would be to see out KG and Ray’s contracts and reload with mountains of cap space. Say what you will about Ainge, but the past few offseasons have shown that he’s capable of assembling a contending roster with only minimums and exceptions to deal with. The man knows how to deal with cap space.
"Can't eat sushi in Utah, brother. Landlocked."
agree completely
also. he knows how to draft in the first round. and if doesnt get a good player in the draft hes good at trading them while they have value
Preserving the cap space may turn out the be the best option.
But Danny’s got to explore everything—and who plays what minutes could change if they head for an immediate rebuild.
Therefore, the best course of action would be to see out KG and Ray’s contracts and reload with mountains of cap space. Say what you will about Ainge, but the past few offseasons have shown that he’s capable of assembling a contending roster with only minimums and exceptions to deal with. The man knows how to deal with cap space.
The past few seasons he’s shown that he can assemble a contending roster with only minimums and exceptions when he had legitimate all-stars still playing like all-stars (and not just all-stars because of their name recognition). He (or anybody else) cannot assemble a contending roster with only minimums and exceptions without said all-stars.
If he can get expirings and finagle a draft pick out of somebody for Ray and/or KG, it simply speeds up the rebuild. For the next couple of years, our definition of success needs to change. Success will be gathering tradeable (or keepable, should they prove worthy) assets, not collecting decent to good vets that will have us making the playoffs, but leave us utterly without hope of a championship. Sometimes improvement comes in the form of a worse record and better draft picks, and that’s hard for people to see. That takes a good bit of patience, and the ability to see beyond what’s immediately happening. As we saw last go around, there’ll be plenty of screaming for Ainge’s head while he goes through the painful process of acquiring assets again.
+1
I agree with this.
I’m almost of the mind that the best option is to just play out the contracts and then go ‘minimal’ for another year – probably missing the playoffs in 2013. We’d have cap space and draft picks and perhaps some tradable role players and that may be the best path to rebuild with. We could trade our two 1st rd picks to move up in this draft and then punt on next season to move up in that one … painful, but that would net high picks in consecutive years. Note – we’d still have played hard to win in THIS season so we are only talking about sucking awful for one season.
It would suck, but having been a fan as long as I have been, I know that sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.
Obviously a key part of that plan is forecasting both draft years – Danny surely is pouring over scouting reports to try to get a sense of what’s going to be available via those drafts versus trades and free agency.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Im just baffled by what seems to be a lack of effort
for the most part it seems no one cares to rebound, no one cares to dive for lose balls, no cares to leave it all on the court every game, no one seems to have the pride of playing lock down defense, no one seems to take care in making solid passes…im truely shocked by not just a pro team, but one with 4 all stars to play so flawed. Its not the losing that bothers me, its the way we are losing. I can go to a youth basketball game and see kids boxing out, rebounding, knowing when to make a chest pass or a bounce pass, to hustle, to play defense. I really hope something changes…either our teams desire or our teams players. I would rather the first option, but im not against the second if that what it takes to get some hard workers in green. Sorry so long, but just venting my opinion
by Kgwillkillyou on Jan 13, 2012 1:33 AM EST via mobile reply actions
+1
I fell in love watching this team because their precision and intensity were infectious. In some ways its helped mask their obvious lack of athelticism. But what I see now an elite 25yr old PG being forced to play at a 35yr old’s pace. Clearly the NBA game is changing here. Give it another year, and we will get absolutely hammered by the new-gen teams – Clips, Bulls, Heat, and yes, the Sixers !!
Sooner or later we need to replace the 3/4/5 slots. We had Jeff Green, but his heart condition was unexpected. So DA is right to question if this Big 3 is good enough for the long run. And for goodness sakes give the rookies some playing time! How can Doc praise them so much yet never play them?
Any changes not involving the Big 4 or Doc ....
…. should not be labelled as “Major”. Let’s wait and see.
+1
That is true. “major” you would think means the big 4…otherwise it wouldnt be very major…unless everyone BUT the big 4 went away
by Kgwillkillyou on Jan 13, 2012 1:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I mentioned Doc because
… he has been the guy calling the shots on offense for the past several seasons, and offensive drought has been exactly the major problem of the team in those years.
by getthat18now on Jan 13, 2012 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
How about the nuggets players that are overseas? If and when they come back, what are the odds of Ainge signing them?
If DA can sign Wilson Chandler, JR Smith, or Martin, this team would get a quick boost. I agree with what I have read so far, we barely have any trading chips, and if we trade big three we will have to take on similar salary numbers.
by Danyck on Jan 13, 2012 1:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
JR smith be great pick up
maybe start him allow ray come of bench for those need bench points other the other way around
Yahoo sports is reporting Sheed is looking to come back from retirement
I doubt the Celtics will want him, but it could be interesting. Here is the link:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=Auz6PEtYelilqNrcNU5KfRI5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowskirasheed_wallace_nba_return_011212
Trades
First, can we move on from Perk? If anyone thinks Perk would have been here must less be able to help our offensive problems, clearly hasn’t been watching basketball in this century. When was Perk’s last good offensive move? Oh yeah, we’re still waiting to see it!
Second, why wouldn’t Danny consider a trade? He’d be a fool not to. I didn’t read anywhere that he’s thinking of blowing it up for second round picks. I have not liked all of his trade decisions but they’ve all been fair. It’s not like he planned for Green to have a heart ailment. And his aggressiveness before the season was great and all the players he attempted to get would have most certainly made this team a better contender. Where he has been unlucky (failed?) is when he’s reaching for a thirty-five year old to turn back time (Sheed, Shaq).
Third, speaking of contending…how can we really get mad at Ainge if he choses to spare this team a quick playoff exit. I’ve been saying a second round exit but if they are unlucky enough to get a quick and athletic team in the first round, this could be very embarrassing. Rondo, at this point, is literally blazing past his teammates. And I know Rondo blazes past a lot of the NBA but how can you run a fast break when your point guard is the only man down the court? And it’s not like our slower players and banging around the glass…we’re getting beat to the ball and beat on the glass. We’re not even close to contending.
Is there hope? Sure. But it will take Pierce and Garnett to show something more spectacular than they’ve shown this season. IT will take Ray being as hot as he’s been. It will take Rondo being superhuman and aggressive on every defensive and offensive play (without running out of gas). And it will take a trade for a legitimate all-star caliber center. It’s hard, as a thinking fan, to believe all those things are going to come into place. And if we don’t think we can win it all, I’d rather not see this core unit humbled again in the playoffs.
If we have little to
no chance in the playoffs I’d rather see them trade for value and get a lottery pick. A lot of the surprise contenders would trade for KG or Ray. Also could see Utah trading big Al for 2 players who could make them an instant contender.
by calc on Jan 13, 2012 7:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions
14 million above the luxury tax threshhold
We are way over the threshhold and this is not good for the bottom line and will come back to haunt us in future years after we reload.
If team continues in mediocrity I would not be surprised to see KG, Sugar Ray, and Truth’s salaries dumped (either in a trade or with that one time lockout cut we get.)
You don’t pay 14 million in luxury tax for a team which will not go far in the playoffs. It will soon be time to get younger.
JO, KG, and Allen all have expiring contracts and lots of teams like those. No hurry; we can wait till deadline and see what happens.
I understand basketball is a business.
But its sad how you guys want to trade KG and Allen after all they have given you guys. They only have 1 year left on thier contracts you think youll get a DH for them!? How about cutting these guys some slack and letting them retire as celtics?
by The green mamba on Jan 13, 2012 12:23 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Unfortunately ...
That’s the same logic we used in the late 1980s, and the result was 20 years in the wilderness. No, thank you.
Not exactly.
Reggie Lewis dieing had a lot to do with that too.
It was almost a different ownership group, who clashed with Auerbach and in later years brought in the likes of Rick Pitino and Chris Wallace.
You can certainly make the argument that Red should have cut ties with the original Big 3 much earlier, and possibly could have positioned the team better if he’d done so, but you can’t blame the entire late 90s and early 2000s on that.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Also not almost.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Doc needs to get creative and take some chances
Change up the starters. Throw some young guys out there. Inject some variety. Use the whole bench. You can’t sit there and run the same tired legs the majority of the game every game and expect different results. This core shouldn’t need time To gel. They’ve been together long enough.
by cltc5 on Jan 13, 2012 4:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Agree 100% with Ainge...
and think its totally fair when he said:
“They’ve got to show they have an opportunity to win.
Otherwise, I’ve got to at least make an effort to go another direction.”
I think Ainge giving the current core a shot to win this year is fair and respectful.
But if they show they are not up to doing the job for whatever reason be it age, injury, poor play etc., Ainge has the right to explore and seek to make personal changes to help the club, if possible short term to salvage this season, but more importantly long term as the C’s seek to rebuild.
Trades
One reason Ainge might take on salary at the deadline is that he took a look at who will be available as a free agent this summer after Howard, Williams, Paul, etc. He may think he can get a better return at the deadline than after the season, thus be willing to use up some of the cap space now. I also think Rondo most definitely will be in play in potential trades.
Trades
My assumption based on that the C’s will not be getting Howard, Williams, etc. to come to Boston.
What improvements......The time is HERE
Time to do what the job calls for ………….. Changes, put rookies in and deal PP, KG and O’Neal get ready for some real basketball. Allen is still fair to keep but don’t sign him
just yet.
Rebounding, Offense, Rotations killing the C's so far...
I’m not going to use the age “TOO OLD” card because I’m seeing great performances by Steve Nash, Vince Carter, Chauncey Billups, Grant Hill and Kobe. PLUS, I think KG & Ray are doing fine, playing great. However, Paul Pierce, JO, they’re playing like moldy garbage. PP is slower than molasses, a hour glass is faster than any of his shots. Paul Pierce is so slow, you can predict his move a day ahead, make plans to block his shot 24 hrs. ahead schedule, have a lunch break in between or eat dinner.. I bet JO would trip while hurdling a pebble! I always had a problem with JO. I don’t know WHY he’s still a Celtic. And, Chris Wilcox? Yet another waste of space. I think it’s time to put Greg Stiemsma in the starting line up until Danny find a miracle. The rebounding must improve – trade Chris Wilcox and JO immediately. Jeff Van Gundy said it all (Bulls vs Boston), how come the rest of the C’s standing around, not moving to grab rebounds, not moving at all? There were many second chance shot opportunities against the Bulls. I’ll stop there! Anyway, if I was Danny & Doc, this is what I would do. Trade Wilcox, JO, Avery Bradley, Pavolovic, + pick for a starter Center and SF. Second, bench Paul for good..
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