"Blow It Up" Just Doesn't Make Sense

I was thinking about the same stuff. Since the long term strategy with all contracts is to reload/rebuild this summer, why would you ruin that to get players, that will not win a championship this year?

You say:

I’m all for building through the draft, but if your plan is to tank and you think this team is toast, here again, why would you blow this up? If anything (and I’m speaking somewhat sarcastically here – forgive the tone) you’d run the “risk” of a younger team catching fire and hurting our precious draft position.

Why would you blow it up? Because even though this team may not be championship caliber, they certainly will not finish in the bottom five. If you really do want to build through the draft, I’d rather blow it up and pick in the top 5 than ride this wave, and try to rebuild by picking in the mid teens.

that the current Celtics were assembled through a strategy of acquiring so-called “assets”. You can´t compare Rick Pitino with Danny Ainge.

Blowing it up is not about cap space, that cap space won´t help us anyway to acquire a potential star, it´s about getting some kind of value, preferrably a high pick, instead of nothing to speed up the inevitable. I think your proposed strategy will only prolong the “dark days”.

You only provide the Wizards as an example, but what about the Thunder, Bulls or Clippers?

The best thing we could hope for in return isn´t some fringe all-star, it´s Draft Picks.

I think you’re missing the point of these debates.

I whole-heartedly agree that blowing this team up is not the correct move. I still believe that once we get into the playoffs, we can beat anybody.

BUT, if Danny (and Doc?) (who know the team a lot better than anyone on this board) decide that this core group no longer has any shot at a title (which doesn’t seem so far-fetched anymore), than I’d rather blow it up and get as many assets as we can, rather than let these players walk for absolutely nothing. If we know that we can’t win this year, why lose KG and Ray for nothing? Why not get whatever assets we can for them?

As a relatively young Celtics fan I was not quite sure what the phrase “blow it up” meant until today, yet I was in favor of it because from what I could pick up from all the Celtic forums/articles etc was that “blow it up”= get rid of the sluggish Celtics (basically any one except rondo, pietrus, bass,and maybe steimsma) and get all these young fresh legs on the team and win the championship. Obviously that is not the case. I think a lot of fans right now just want to see some changes because we are really frustrated…so we might just be saying thing without fully thinking about the repercussions… Except Jeff haha

But what I don’t get is why would we ever even consider trading Rondo? Wasn’t there a recent article about how rondo is like one of, if not the best point gaurd in the league?? Am I missing something??

If it makes sense at a later date and a contending teams will give you value for our aging core, then I say do it.

That means we clearly aren’t going to snap out of this and there is value to be had. It’s so hard to say right now. A contender could look at Ray or Paul or KG or even JO as the last piece to the puzzle and is willing to give Ainge value in return.

Ainge has to be prepared for a scenario like this because it has happened in the past.. It happened between Phoenix and Boston in 2001-02. Boston got veterans who helped in a playoff run(which was fool’s gold). Phoenix got Joe Johnson. He needs to be ready.

He doesn’t need to necessarily shop any around but just be prepared because some years at the dead line someone trades a valuable young asset for a vet they think can get them over the top.

The Celtic’s could benefit is such a scenario.

Like you said Jeff, we will have some cap room. And it’ll be enough to bring one superstar or rising star caliber player or a few solid ones. I sure hope that Danny don’t blow it off on just one guy. Tons of solid players that can be acquired for much cheaper and collectively, could be dangerous, ala the championship Detroit Pistons team from 2004 (? not sure if it was 2004), or more recently, the Denver Nuggets right now.

.. but the optimists among us are not the ones ‘drinking kool aid’. We are embracing the reality that has been the Celtics for the past 4 seasons. The Celtics were the best team in the league for most of last season. They were all-stars. Record breakers. All defensive team members. Yeah they burned out at the end of the year, but there are many reasons that could have been, a lot having to do with drastic, traumatic changes to the team that were far beyond their control.

At some point, the Cs are going to start playing better, they’re going to win against quality teams and they’re going to start gearing up for the playoffs. And if you think they can’t turn it on for one last run, you are disregarding history.

Boston needs a major change….either by signing a center or acquiring one through trade but only a rental. I say don’t mess up what has been planned for the off season of opening up major cap space.

People blowing up a good team for no reason please give these guys time to gel. We didnt have half of these guys last year playing for us. Let them understand docs system/each others abilities. This is the reason why the spurs are doing good they have been together for the longest time. Lakers too so please stop comparing us to those teams.

and would not even make good bench players for next years team even if they signed on cheao after their contracts expired. We need an inside presence on offense and no one seems willin to do the job. They are already too slow to get back on defense so they may as well try to get offense rebounds rather than run back to get back on defense after they take a miss their outside shots.

TIME to see what we have on the bench and see if we can get a combination that can gel together. The tried and true no longer works – need some young legs to mix in with the dinosaurs.

what blowing it up means. Many say trade our vets for young assets. Assets mean bench quality players, not stars. Then you will hear….. dang, all DA got was a bunch of scrubs. Same with starting our rookies……… I would like to see JJJ get minutes, but I trust that Doc who sees him practice sees something that makes him think our vets give us a better chance at winning.

There are some reason to blow it up .as well as some reason to keep your core but for less money and a lesser role like off the bench . All these articles from all the doubters and nonbelievers well mean nothing if this team stay as is and the sign DH 12 .because his strenghts are where they are being beaten at Reb.and inside defensive rim protector as KG was off the ball because he never weigh enough but with a space eater such as big baby ,Perkins And one of the most underrated defenders and rebounders with a hustling never quit on a play Leon Powe all these players made KG a all world def.off the ball.and on off these players gave KG and Paul Pierce confidence to shoot any shot from anywhere knowing their rebound abilities. So getting DH 12 bring all of that back. Now their was some other dumb moves need I say even when we draft well we not structured enough to keep the players because of not being like .Bullshit if you had a chance at getting Kobe 24 one of the most hated players u wouldn’t pull the trigger because KG can’t work with his attitude ,again bullshit Gerald Green is not Kobe but his talents would help Rondo so we lost out on developement and he lost out on leaving to earlier but Ainge drafted him so someone seen something in him.Moshaun Booker a score that we need traded for a big man in the KG mode that we can’t use yet .and why has he not benifited from KG liking him? Let Delante West go for less money and keeping 6"7 slow shooter with now confidence or def. Sashia P who we pay about 3 million more than it would have cost to D West another dumb move .Ainge you better get DH 12 or I will quit my job and spend my saving to buy season front row seats just to hold a sign at every game with every dumb move you ever done Starting with the Joe Johnson trade who right now would have gave Paul Pierce a better and more skilled teamate than keeping Antione Walker giving him and 100 million .every game Ainge every game

1. You can get real value for KG and Ray
2. You would be doing them a favor sending them to a real contender
3. You would potentially go from a mediocre draft choice to a top 6
4.Younger guys would have to get used to leadership roles rather than deferring to the vets
5. You wouldn’t be depending on top free agents wanting to come to Boston instead you’d take Rondo, Pierce and Bass add what you get for KG and Ray plus the high draft choice and then look for players to fill in the blanks.

It’s only 11 or so games into the season. Yes, the team might end up being a lower seed or even a lottery team but it’s just to early to tell. As far as next season, Danny has put the team in a very enviable position. There is a lot of cap space, two first round picks and the possibility of bring back Kevin and Ray at reduced salaries to augment the bench. The team has given us much to cheer about over the last four years. Yes, we might have a down year but it was to be expected. But the Celts have a good chance of making this possible slide very short due to the way Danny has everything lined up for next year.

Is it possible to make the playoffs with a losing record (because the east is so weak) and still
be in the lottery? That would be quite an accomplishment (and a great scenario)

Only teams that don’t make the playoffs qualify for the lottery. Our best chance to draft good player an STILL win the championship would be for the Clippers to be a couple games back from the eighth seed and miss the playoffs and settle for a 11-14 pick because it’s top ten protected. Neither seem like a possibility right biw

They are not a scary opponent to anyone now. but they should make the playoffs and veteran pride and the closing window on their year/careers can rejuvenate for a month or so.

i have seen enough of J O’Neal though. He should come off the bench and start Stiemsma now. Stiemsma has earned a deeper look and O’Neal has earned the bench.

Change is coming. He’ll trade Rondo and get Jason Kidd in return. And pullout Shaq and Sheed from retirement.

I couldn’t agree more. As painful as it may be to watch (possibly) the big 3 fade away into the sunset and become an average team, it is still the best course of action to take. Personally, I am in the camp with you as a Rondo supporter with you, Jeff. However, looking at next summer’s FA class after Dwight Howard (who is a pipe dream) the next best FA out there are PG. Deron Williams and even a guy like Raymond Felton are great (Williams) and solid (Felton) starting PG. I wonder if with the cap room to sign two max FA if the way the Celtics could get the most talent wouldn’t be for them to try to sign one of those PG (preferably Williams, and trade Rondo for a good big man). If you keep Rondo leaving you with no need for a PG and eliminate the possibility of signing Howard there really aren’t many exciting FA out there who aren’t restricted. Rondo could net you a big man AND you could replace him with another all-star PG. Sure some restricted guys like Kevin Love, Eric Gordon, Brook Lopez etc would be great signing but those teams aren’t letting those guys go anywhere most likely (except many Lopez if Howard signs but something tells me he’s not going to sign with the Nets despite all the talk.)

Bottom line is, I think rebuilding is going to be hard to do on the fly. Because this FA class isn’t necessarily as deep as everyone makes it out to be. Most of the talented guys are either restricted, play the same position as Rondo, or are Dwight Howard who probably will not come here. I just hope we don’t do what the Pistons did a few off seasons ago and spend the money just because we have it. They signed Villanueva and Ben Gordon just because they could afford it. But those guys aren’t worth max deals and they set themselves back about 5 years in doing so as they’re stuck with those contracts. Having money is great, but the Celtics need to guard against not being tempted to pay good players like they’re great players just because they have the money to do so. If they do, it will set the rebuilding process back a couple years like the Pistons did to themselves.

The aging of a crazed warrior is not pretty

It is Danny’s Job. It isn’t KG’s job or Doc’s or any of ours. Danny is the one who will protect his boss’ investment. He does not care who goes or who stays or when. We do. He does not. This is a very valuable franchise and we have a solid GM. As everyone has outlined here, there are options.

Trading

Only for draft picks that are high. 2012 draft is well rated. There are three 6’10" guys in the top 6 picks as of today. Obviously, a shot at this group will “cause a trade.” Will a team that needs one guy come along? LONGSHOT. Trading does not look good unless the next possibility comes into play.

Tanking

Tanking is good. The Celtics keep losing? Their draft order improves. Top six? That would be a hell of a tank. If Danny thought he could get top six by tanking, would he start the two Purdue guys and Steamer with Rondo and whomever? Of course he would. He is running a company worth 100’s of millions of dollars, he HAS to do what it takes. Would he trade Rondo? Duh!

“Oh gee! What a mistake to trade Perk?” Wrong, you don’t build a team around a guy who scores six points a game. Don’t ask Danny to do things because you have an attachment to a player. He doesn’t. This is about $ and nothing else.

Where are the best odds to make the Celtics a future contender?

The draft or trade Rondo to someone who is desperate enough to send TWO all stars in exchange?

The draft option sucks, but, what else does Danny have? Cap space? I completely disagree that cap space is going to yield what Ainge needs. He knows better than I do, but, PP looks good as a sixth guy and Rondo and Bradley are too short to play 4 and 5. I think cap space is below TANKING in Dannyland.

Danny will not trade any Celtics without the potential for significant draft improvement.

The point of all this blather is this:

Would Danny trade Ray and KG in order to help his team TANK in 2012 and improve his draft chances? Can the big three-less Celtics suck bad enough to beat the raptors et al to the bottom of the pile?

Yes he would. Every time the Celtics lose…do you think he cares? Danny Ainge PREFERS the Celtics to lose. If they do he can do a better of job of protecting the owner’s investment.

Will PP and KG improve this year and help them get into the playoffs? Yes they will….does Danny want this “make it into the playoffs” Scenario? No he does not.

The Thunder are coming to town. Danny needs a team that can beat the Thunder and the Heat. He certainly does not have that team now…and he will have to do whatever it takes to get one.

I agree you can’t ‘blow it up’ and get quality in return for the kg’s or ray allens. Your not going to get a monta ellis for ray or a Howard for kg.

BUT I do think teams like San Antonio who may be a shooter away from winning in the second round may be ok with giving up a 1st round pick for ray allen. So match the salary match an expiring contract and the 1st round pick for ray.. or the hawks could use a kg to add to there depth and lighten the blow of tossing horford. Don’t know if they have the salaries to make it work. I’m saying give up kg and ray to playoff teams wanting to keep up with the L.A Miami, Chicago for draft picks over the next to years. E

If you don’t think there is a plan then you don’t know the Celtics.This team only problem is J ONeal. Doc did not resign for money He could have stay home and watch Austin all year at Duke.then came back and had any job he wanted. He still lives in Olando. And also gave you a hint in the allstar game .DH 12 is coming .We already has a comfort zone with him and resign KG and Ray Allen along with bringing back Jeff Green makes this team a contender. Rondo And PaulPierce,Bass , Jeff Green if ready. and DH12.bench Ray is 6th man KG ,JJ,Moore, Greg S,Avery Bradley, M Pietres and Doolingyou heard it here first

DH12 never had a guard like Rondo who in the East is a better PG and Center combo and with Ray and Paul on the wings and Bass and Jeff Green or KG on the floor who gets to double DH12 .it would be a very easy MVP trophy for Howard on the way to his first ring

The ‘blow it up’ mania was getting crazy.

Sadly, this article will probably only marginally dampen that craziness. But it was well-written and hopefully will bring a little light into the darkness.

We need a little patience now to let this play out a bit more. The C’s are clearly on the back side but teams in that situation are not always done. There could be a run if the pieces start to click. Not likely, but still possible. It is disturbing that this team does not seem tough-minded but we know the key guys are, or have been in the past. Right now the offense, the rebounding and the bench are all bad. You are not as good as you look when you are going good and not as bad as you look when you are going bad.

BLOW IT UP PLEASE

If we are no longer a contender, let’s use those chips to get some REAL prospects and try building around Rondo and getting some inside presence.

KG’s only value is as an expiring chip, and Ray has a LOT of value. Let Pierce play out his career but he needs to take a paycut.