Danny Ainge Will Blow Up The Celtics... If He Can
by Jeff Clark on Jan 19, 2012 6:28 AM EST
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintI've lost count of how many times I've read or heard this story coming from Danny Ainge. He must be really tired of telling it (or really eager to). It just paints such a perfect image of the brash young Ainge and his mentality of success over sentimentality.
Ainge's patience has limits - The Boston Globe
"First of all, it's a different era,'' said Ainge. "I sat with Red [Auerbach] during a Christmas party [20 years ago]. Red was talking to Larry, Kevin, and myself, and there was a lot of trade discussion at the time, and Red actually shared some of the trade discussions. And I told Red, ‘What are you doing? Why are you waiting?'
"He had a chance to trade Larry [to Indiana] for Chuck Person and Herb Williams and [Steve] Stipanovich, and he had a chance to trade Kevin [to Dallas] for Detlef Schrempf and Sam Perkins. I was, like, ‘Are you kidding?'
"I mean, I feel that way now. If I were presented with those kinds of deals for our aging veterans, it's a done deal, to continue the success.
No
Despite a policy of not commenting directly on trade rumors, there are a lot of that Danny could at least attempt to quiet the talk of "blowing it up" surrounding the team. He could speak anonymously as a "team executive" to the press. He could give his current players a lot more public support. He could let it be known around the league that none of his Big 4 are available at this time. He's done none of that.
Instead, he's made sure everyone knew that everyone is available for a price. He obviously hasn't gotten an offer he deems worth it to pull the trigger yet, but you can be sure he's been on the phone a lot. In fact, he's even told the world that there's a very real timetable involved.
"Sure, I think in the next few weeks I'll have a better feel. If the pattern continues like it is now, then I think that our hopes diminish, of course.
"It still doesn't mean we do anything, because there may not be opportunities to do anything. But I think that we'll have a better feel rather than a 12-game sample.''
In other words, the team has got another month or so - if that - to prove they are still contenders. Despite my arguments (Danny doesn't read blogs much, and I think I like that about him), it doesn't sound like Ainge will hesitate to hit the blinking red detonate button if he gets the right price in return.
Which leaves just one all-important question: What's the right price?
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keep in mind, none of this is really new, Earth shattering info
but it is interesting to see Ainge poke at the “blow it up” fire rather than do anything to tamp down the flames
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
The Bird deal wasn't that good
But I would have done the Mchale deal in a heartbeat back then.
.50 cents?
Jeff, Ian Thomsen of SI had an interesting take after the game last night. I’d also heard him say this elsewhere recently. That this team will get better as the season goes along and Ainge will only get 50 cents on the dollar for Pierce. So why trade him Ian states? If Ian is correct then I think what may happen is that we will see no trades and Danny will acquire pieces during the summer in free agency. I then think he may resign KG and Ray and have them and Pierce augment Rondo and whoever Danny signs. It may not be a title team but it may be what we have to settle for. Just one scenario.
Sounds like the scenario from It's a wonderful Life
Meanwhile, Potter has already seized control of the bank during the crisis, and calls George to disingenuously help him during the crisis. Potter suggests that George tell the people to bring their shares to him and he will pay 50 cents on the dollar. Faced with tremendous pressure and confusion, George looks at the portrait of his father and a motto on the wall for courage: “All you can take with you is that which you’ve given away.” He realizes he must appeal to the crowd to allay their fears. George appeals to the townspeople to understand that things aren’t as black as they appear, just as sirens scream by outside. He explains to his depositors that they are all in this together – that their money is tied up in their neighbors’ houses as an investment. Without the Building and Loan, they would all be at the mercy of Potter, who cares little for them, and would offer cash for their shares at half-price during the panic. George pleads with the people to not sell their shares to Potter at half their value: “Don’t you see what’s happening? Potter isn’t selling. Potter’s buying!”
by bbeingphilled on Jan 19, 2012 7:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree the most likely outcome is that Pierce stays.
However, the measure of whether or not Danny pulls the trigger shouldn’t be whether he can get ‘full value’ for Pierce, but rather how good the full option will be if he trades Pierce for what relevant he can get—versus staying pat.
That is, if it means getting two young max players next year in their prime, consider who those players likely would be—including the potential or likelihood that bringing in two together could lead to getting better free agents.
And I don’t see any chance of Danny going a year further into his rebuilding with all of the Big Three signed up again. We already know the entrenchment of the ‘Big Three plus Rondo’ option was a discouragement from attracting a big name last month.
Depends, if KG and Ray are willing to sign for cheap and come off the bench
If they are then it would a great addition to the team and a great way to attract free agents. Obviously building around them as starters won’t work.
Playing our ancient guys together against other teams' second string will only reinforce their disadvantage in athleticism.
We’ll even less be able to productively play the three together in another year. Also, per usual, it’ll generally be better for Danny to line up his starting pieces first, and I don’t know how interested these guys would be in waiting around until so late in the process.
Yep.
I have absolutely 0 doubt that Danny would do a trade, for anyone on this team, Pierce included, if the right deal came along.
But that’s just the point, it has to be the right deal, he’s not going to trade them away for nothing. So, no matter how the team plays, he’s still going to field calls, and if teams are willing to give up good value, I don’t think he’d hesitate to pull the trigger.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
The point is?
Agree JC. Sounds to me this is more of a public reprimand for the overall team performance and to light a fire. Not like Danny to telegraph moves, and did anyone expect him to doggedly hold on to players anyway?
by Thruthelookingglass on Jan 19, 2012 7:05 AM EST reply actions
New Bench
We need a new bench we don`t need to trade the BIG 3. Why would Ainge break that chemistry up. Trade E.Moore,M.Daniels, & J.Johnson to Minnesota for A.Randolph. Trade Stiemsma,Wilcox,Bradley,Dooling,Pavlovic, & 1st round pick to Houston for J.Flynn,T.Williams, & H.Thabeet. Thats a young bench who can score and defend. After the trade deadline Ainge should sign R.Wallace & E.House. We will come out the East with this bench.
Ya, because I'm sure Houstin is looking to gut their entire bench for out 1st round pick.
Sounds like a great deal for them. /endsarcasm
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Are u the guy that is posting this on redsarmy repeatedly?
The young talent that the celtics would get isn’t particularly great. And the trading partners won’t be particularly happy either. It’s just bad all around.
Really
First who said those teams will agree to the trade. Besides, I’m really not certain that bench is better than what we have.
Most importantly, we aren’t coming out of the East if our starters don’t produce. That’s really the problem not the bench. Tell me one team that ever relied on it’s bench to lead them. They darn sure never won a Banner.
options
Danny’s problem will be what free agents will come here.He could trade Rondo,tag on Bass & Bradley and amnesty Pierce .Then he would have 100% cap room.But what good is it if nobody will come.
My take is he must trade for somebody, before the free agent period, to use to attract free agents.Deron Williams could be that guy.Otherwise you get Ben Gordon,Charley Villanueva etc types like that and that’s not good.
We shall see
That's Only Partially True
Yes, some FA don’t want to come to Boston. As I remember KG didn’t want to come here. I know this has been hashed repeatedly, but that’s why Danny tried so hard to get CP3. Rondo is a darn good All-Star level PG; people want to play with CP3. Danny was hoping once he got here and saw the culture and mind-set that he could convince him to stay.
I don’t think we’re going to see Ben Gordon and Charlie V. I think Danny will probably need to go the trade route. Like this rebuilding, he’ll assemble some pieces to include FAs he signs over the next year or two and then make a big deal to pry away a Superstar that he can surrond with good players. The same way he created the current Big 3.
I’d love to see us bring back most of this team and add DH. I guess that’s a pipe dream. I think, if DH got here or talks to some of our guys I think he want to be here.
chuck person and detlef schrempf?
two decent players in their prime.. but this is the kind of thinking i just don’t get, i guess.. we were a couple of points from a championship two seasons years ago, and you want to trade our core for some average to slightly-above-average players that might make us a borderline playoff team, when our big contracts are coming off the books at the end of the season anyways?
Exactly!
We are already a borderline playoff team. All this trade talk just makes me feel sad. I should be feeling good about the win but I’m not. I’ve been sad ever since post-game when they reported that Pierce refused to talk to the media because he didn’t want to address the trade rumors and Jackie Mac said she didn’t blame him and was sure he had thought he would retire a Celtic (insinuating that he won’t?). And on another note, does anyone else feel they’ve already seen the McDonald’s “pickles” commercial enough to last a lifetime?! It was funny at first, but it seems that it’s on during every break in the game!
What if he is saying the opposite of what we think?
He has probably been asked about comparing the new big 3 to the old, and whether he is ready to blow it up, as he has said, we should do back then.
In 1987 there were only 7 teams not going into the playoffs, so rebuilding was very different from today. I think he is actually trying to say, that he is not necessarily going to take the medication he concocted himself. Because the younger teams have to be patient and don’t have that much use for veterans, as they did 25 years ago.
It would however be very un-Danny to say that everything is going to be fine, and we’re not trading anyone. So he is probably just being honest about his position.
by European NBA fan on Jan 19, 2012 8:42 AM EST reply actions
"Well, it is and it isn't"
There is a guy who I like a lot who when you ask him a question, any question, he comes back with that. Sounds stupid but it is what Danny is saying – nothing and everything and all in between. It really isn’t stupid. It fills the air the questioner wants filled and hems him in not at all.
I can’t believe I actually read above someone thinking we should bring in Hasheem Thabeet. Hasheem, are you out there? Someone, beside your mother (unless it is your mother) does not think you are a bust.
Filling the air with non-commitals is what Danny is very good at.
Like JC said, there not really any new news here. He is basically saying what he has always said, that anyone is tradeable at the right price.
I agree with Wildblu1 - once again, words were used but nothing really was said.
Danny is just doing his job – responding to the press without revealing anything.
Unless something new comes up, I just don’t see a trade scenario that makes sense for the C’s, short term OR long term.
But Danny is also a master at keeping his cards close to his vest. If a trade happens, we likely won’t see it coming.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Why does Danny even talk about this to the media?
I understand these players live with trade rumors all the time but this public talk of giving these guys a few more weeks does nothing for morale on a 5-8 team. If Danny is talking to other GM’s or considering a blow up in a few weeks, he should keep it to himself. Let these guys focus on basketball and getting to 500.
I would much rather Danny being in talks with Ray and KG’s agents about accepting a discount to stay in Boston and be role players off the bench. They will be much more effective against the other team’s second unit and role models for the younger guys. Next year start Bass and Piertrus along with Rondo, Pierce and a center acquired in free agency after JO retires or is not resigned. Get a good player with the Clips pick, develop JJ and Bradley some more, and we have the making of a solid team. I also do not see Daniels on this team next year.
Agree totally with everything you said
This team doesn’t need distractions right now.
Danny has to respond to questions from the media - that's part of his job.
That doesn’t mean he has to actually tell them anything.
He filled the air by re-telling a story he’s told before. He didn’t really ‘talk about this’ because he didn’t really tell the media anything.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I agree he has to answer questions but
he spoke about it at length and did not play down the fact he could blow up the team in a few weeks. All he had to say was that the team is still working its way into shape and hopefully turn this thing around. That’s it.
By not shooting down...
the recent trade rumors or as you say by not saying something like the team is still working its way into shape and hopefully will turn this thing around etc. I think it possibly means Ainge is holding the door open to possibly trading the big 3.
Only time will tell I guess if he will for sure or not.
Of course he is.
Danny will hold every door open, nothing is ever off the table in his world. This is how he plays the game, and he’s pretty good at it.
Danny, not once in his time here has ever come out and said “I want to do this… I’m not doing this.” he’s vague and inconclusive in everything, to leave every possible avenue open.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I think Ainge is playing it like politician...
by not closing the door on a trade.
I think by leaving wiggle room and saying he is open to trading the big 3, Ainge at least is speaking more frank and is a bit more honest with the public then if he were to say :
" We have no intentions to trade the big 3"
when he really does and then decides to trade them down the line.
It would be awesome though if next season....
…we still get KG & Ray for the vet min and coming off the bench. PP and Rondo will still start of course. Buuuut if they plan on getting All Star type of players then I guess one or more of the big4 may have to go… for next season.
I agree with this.
I understand the desire to get new pieces … but I honestly don’t see any of the Big 3 getting good trade assets at this point. I honestly think they are more valuable to us as players than as trade bait. The offseason is different.
But seriously, it’s ridiculous that people blame Red for not blowing up the original Big 3, when look at the trades that were available! You really think that Williams and Stepanovich were going to lead us to another ring? The only legitimate All-Star on that list is Schrempf, and he ain’t exactly a superstar.
cosign on the last sentence in that piece
If you thought the Kendrick Perkins trade killed Ubuntu, parting with Pierce would be like urinating on its grave.
by European NBA fan on Jan 19, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting indeed.
As much as I don’t think trading PP now is the solution… If, let’s say, those 4 are the only options before the trade deadline this season, then the Hawks scenario is sweet indeed.
Excellent article and analysis.
Is it true that Pierce did not speak to the press last night due to the trade rumors? If so, that seems to make my point earlier that Danny’s comments will not help morale.
I'm not worried that PP's morale will be affected by these rumors...
He’s a professional and a tried and tested veteran who’s been the subject of trade rumors even in his prime years. I don’t think he’ll get affected now. I thought Rondo would not respond well to the Chris Paul rumors before but look how he’s playing now.
I did read that he declined media interviews after the game but I’m sure it’s not a morale issue.
I agree but he has played with the Celtics his whole career and
stated he wants to retire a Celtic. So although a professional, he is also human and I think it must bother him a bit. The Big 4 and Doc did seem a bit deflated after the Perk trade, if I recall from the ESPN series on the Celtics last year. So it seems this stuff does bother and affect them.
Would it be possible....
…for PP to have his salary reduced for the last 2 seasons on his contract? I know it’s crazy for anyone to do that but if yes, that would be great! I mean I’d love to see him retire a Celtic too. That’s a rare thing nowadays.
I do not think he can do that..
the only chance of doing that was last year when they re did and extended Pierces contract.
Danny has ...
has said in the past he would blow up the big 3 if the right deal came along so we should not be surprised that he is repeating this possible intention and if he follows through with possibly trading any of them if the right deal came along.
I think Danny truly believes that the C’s did the wrong thing back in the late 80’s when they had a chance to trade aging and injured players in Bird and Mchale for young, talented players.
Though at the time I did not want to see Bird or Mchale traded and still do not for sentimental reasons, I do think the trade had its merits and justification for the C’s to do at the time.
Bird to Indiana for Person, Williams and Stipanovich
(which is a trade rumor I either forgot about or was not made public since its a even better trade then the other trade rumor at the time which was Bird for Person and the # 2 pick which ended up being Rick Smits )
and
Mchale to Dallas for Shrempf and Perkins
were pretty decent trade offers since the C’s were trading away Bird and Mchale who keep in mind were again aging and battling chronic injuries for younger and very talented players in return.
Though I want to see Ainge give the current big 3 core some more time to this season before he trades them away (which I will do out fairness and respect to them) I think if the C’s do no play well come the trade deadline and the C’s look like they can not compete for a title, Ainge may try to trade the big 3 to try to get younger talent or draft picks in return, so in his eyes he does not do the error with the current big 3 that he believes Red did in the late 80’s with the old big 3.
It would be tough to see any of the big 3 go ideed, but Danny and all us fans knew when we signed them, we would only have them around for a 4 to 5 year window.
Since that window time frame has now just about closed I think (again if the C’s are not playing well come the trade deadline) if the C’s can trade them to any teams that can send back back young, promising and talented players, I think it would be a wise move for the C’s long term interests and to jump start there rebuilding process which would give them the chance to possibly compete for a title sooner rather then later which I assume is the ultimate goal of many fans and Celtic organization.
Off topic but hilarious Big Baby....
There’s a video link in there where Baby drops his shorts to protest an awful call:
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4688656/oh-baby-davis-drops-pants-gets-technical
As much as the C’s clearly got the better end of the Bass-Baby deal… the Magic are fortunate enough to have Von Wafer playing well for their team. Oh, and Nate’s doing great too with OKC…
Just an update.
I don't get it, was that sarcasm?
Cause Nate’s playing for the Warriors now.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Clover, if KG and Allen are brought back I’m sure it would be on very reduced salaries and they would be complimentary pieces, as they are now. It could happen. If we have a young team (rebuilding) next year it might make sense to have a couple of HOF veterans to mentor the kids. That’s one scenario. Another is that Ainge targets Deron Williams via trade this year and looks to resign him this summer as an enticement to bring Howard in. That would cost us Rondo and may require Pierce to be moved to clear space. We all can speculate but only Ainge knows what he’s getting offered or who he can realistically pursue.
A couple of veterans is one thing, but having it still be these guys' team, when they really can't bring it any more, will IMO
discourage in-their-prime studs from signing and also keep the next generation feeling like they’re the next generation—not the current one.
Then there’s the issue of Doc overplaying them anyway. I can’t for anything see more than two of them here.
Danny is crazy...
What GM in their right mind would trade Larry Bird in the middle of the ‘87-’88 season, with the team coming off a loss in Game 7 of the Finals? Larry was averaging 30/9/6 that year, and was only 31 years old.
In hindsight, Larry got hurt the following year, and it was all downhill from there. Trading away our franchise superstar for Chuck Person while Larry was still in his prime would have been a terrible, terrible mistake. It would be like the Lakers deciding to trade Kobe Bryant after the year the Lakers lost to us in the Finals for a package of Rudy Gay and Hakim Warrick.
All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino
Agreed
Those trades would not have put the C’s into championship contention, just prolonged how long they would be a 50 win team. Having Bird and McHale to the end was far better than ditching them for some decent, but not franchise changing players
we need height. rebounds, rebounds, rebounds is like location, location. jo is almost not a short term solution. the guy tries but his knees are shot. rondo by the way, shooting 11 free throws last night and making 7 was a very good thing.
“He had a chance to trade Larry [to Indiana] for Chuck Person and Herb Williams and [Steve] Stipanovich, and he had a chance to trade Kevin [to Dallas] for Detlef Schrempf and Sam Perkins. I was, like, ‘Are you kidding?’
Can’t believe I’m saying this, but Ainge would trade his mother if he could. Let’s be realistic this has to be a motivational tool, a bad one, but this to be some sort of way to motivate his team. Trade Garnett, Allen and Pierce? Where to contenders?
Pierce, Garnett and Allen would draw a lot interest from contenders. Three hall of fame veterans with a little bit of gas in the tank can help teams like the Bulls, Thunder, Knicks, Heat, Portland, Pacers, Blazers, Nuggets or Clippers. But Ainge wouldn’t get any young prospects in return. There are no young prospects on the market at this moment.
Chuck Person, Herb Williams, Steve Stipanovich, Detlef Schrempf and Sam Perkins? Really, Ainge believe those guys could of turn around the Celtics franchise for the better. Tells me Ainge judgement is not good. To casually tell the media that u would consider trading your core players is mind boggling.
If you’re trying to motivate your players to play better, then do it in private. Why is anyone surprise this is what happens when u have an aging core of starters/hall of famers. They’re not as athletic as they once were so it’s hard for them to keep up with youth.
Totally agree.
The Big 3 and Rondo do not need this kind of motivation. One of the things we love about them is they are hard competitors. So that cannot be the reason for the comments. Quite frankly, I fall into the Po camp on Danny. I do not really care for him as a GM and I was not crazy about him as a player. I think the Perk deal was a disaster and messed up the chemisty of this team in the long term. He either made these comments because he likes; to hear himself talk ot because he is somewhat of a jerk. But motivation cannot be the reason and these comments do not do us any good. If I would want to see anyone leave the team, it is Danny,
I expect the Danny loves will get at me but this is how I feel. Sorry.
To C'sFan
I would suspect both Danny and Doc have talked with the potential tradees about this subject. What their reactions were in of course totally unknown. They may have said “yes, to a contender such as xxxx” or they may have said "no,i’ll retire’ or “I don’t like it but I want to continue playing”.
Ray, from all I’ve read over the past several years , would not want to leave the Boston area because of medical treatments needed by one of his children.
Paul is a west coast guy and might not object to going there, but would object to anywhere else.
Kevin is a totally unknown factor. He has said in the past he might retire, but lately he has sounded like he wants to continue to play.
I'm not the Devil's Advocate but I consiider him a close friend
Red meat for the media...
In today’s media culture with blogs and TV networks like ESPN it doesn’t help to publicly talk trades. Danny Ainge is giving bloggers and ESPN every opportunity to sensationalize Celtics trade talks. And we all know ESPN loves to sensationalize conversations about the Celtics, Heat and Tim Tebow. lol
Not breaking up the Big Three was not the reason we went into a 20 year slump.
In fact, it was probably the least contributing factor, especially when you look at the players we would have received in return.
The deaths of Len Bias and Reggis Lewis were much bigger factors than the non-trades. But the biggest reason for our slump was the inept managing by Pitino, Wallace, and Carr. Had we had a decent GM, we probably could have been very competitive.
by KY Celts fan on Jan 19, 2012 10:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
And that's being nice.
Pitino in about 3 years, nearly single handedly undid what took Red 40 years to build, that being, the Celtic mystique.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
100% Agree.
The decline of the Big 3 is a nice little sign post we can use to explain everything. “Oh, if Red blew it up it never would have happened” but it’s just flat out not true.
Had Bias and Lewis been around, the team, beyond winning 2-3 more Championships most likely, would have transitioned just fine. The 15 years after that, had everything to do with incompetent management and coaching, and nothing to do with Red’s reluctance to get value on his aging core.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
agree because red was building pieces around the big three whereas Danny is building crap to have to blow up later
Example: An aging JO gets the MLE and then Danny can’t even trade him when he realizes he too old to help us because he is too darn old for every other team….Genius I tell you just genius
Is it Soup Yet?
A good example of what Red was doing in the 80's is what San Antonio is doing now
Duncan is well past his prime. Ginobli is one injury away from being out of the league. Parker is still relatively young and can carry the team for stretches. So instead of adding a bunch of old veterans, they’ve added youth that more compliments Parker as well as hides Duncan decline. And they’re still rolling. That’s what Red was trying to do back then (with tragic results) and its what Danny should be trying to do now.
by KY Celts fan on Jan 19, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Acquiring Jeff Green and the Clippers pick
Was exactly what Danny was trying to do here. Unfortunately Green had a sudden heart problem, and the Clippers went from bad to very good, skipping the mediocre stage everyone thought they were headed for, but it was the same concept. (blah blah, we shouldn’t have traded Perk, blah blah)
by egotistical ma on Jan 19, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
And Delonte.
Agreed.
Two biggest failures of Danny’s Ainge tenure, imo.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
Agree completely.
We lost toughness and tenacious defense when we did not resign West and Allen. Those are the huys you want in the trenches. I think the loss of those two, as well as Perk, affected the intensity of the Big 4. Allen and West playing all out made the others crank it up a notch. The only guy we have know that can do this is Pietrus. I do not see that fire anywhere else. Letting Delonte go was nuts (no pun intended).
y'all are making an assumption
that allen and west were even willing to come back. I think Danny tried to resign both.
I'm not the Devil's Advocate but I consiider him a close friend
I think they were tired of Delonte...they couldn't/didn't want to try and manage him any longer
and TA should have been taken care of before he became a free agent (hindsight of course).
This just in...
In a stunning move, Danny Ainge trades Kevin Garnett for Detlef Schrepf and Sam Perkins.
Danny said after the trade
After watching last nights game, I decided that Rondo is really a post up player and we will start him at PF. Not sure about Detlief but I’ve always thought Sam would make a fine PG.
I'm not the Devil's Advocate but I consiider him a close friend
Haha, nice.
But seriously. Rondo should post up more, he’s so good at making the right play in the post.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
50 cents on the dollar would be an upgrade to...
Danny’s last big trade….
Celtic Chat Handle: Bird
by David Henderson on Jan 19, 2012 11:08 AM EST reply actions
It's Danny's team and it's Danny's job. He makes way more bad moves than good and then has to threaten to blow it up to save us and the team from him!!!
my two cents + .48 more
Is it Soup Yet?
LOL
How can you be upset with the team that Danny put together AND upset at him for threatening to blow it up also?
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 19, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t trade Paul Pierce especially at this stage of his career. He’s 34 and will probably play until next year. I get that he’s struggling at the moment and he’s not in basketball shape, but u can’t get value for aging superstar. He’s a Celtics for life.
That’s like the Lakers trading Kobe. Trading Garnett and Allen is not possible because their contracts are too big.
Personally,
I don’t want PP traded either. Under any circumstances. I understand why a GM would have to consider it though. It’s an odd cognitive dissonance.
I also can’t really imagine anybody realistically trading anything worth shipping out any of the big 3.
But if somebody made us that offer we can’t refuse…hypothetically…
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 19, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
but I find it difficult to criticize him for an aging Celtics core that brought us a championship. Remember, people thought they were too old when they first came together.
It was a gamble, with a very narrow window, that paid off. As financially constructed, the BIg 3 and Rondo were always going to be our bread and butter, not our bench.
You could make the argument that he should have blown it up sooner, or traded Rondo, I suppose, but I’m not sure what you would have done differently.
The Big 3 steadily declined. You could make the argument that if all 3 of them stayed healthy and didn’t decline, we would have one multiple championships, regardless of our bench. But that was never going to happen with players their age
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 19, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
+1
As I posted recently elsewhere Ainge built us a great Celtics team in the summer of 07 with the goal to win a championship or 2 .
The C’s won the title in 08 ending a 20 year title drought which Ainge deserves alot of credit for.
The C’s may have won another when the big 3 were still young in 09 if KG did not get hurt.
The C’s were minutes away from winning the titles in 10 and probably would of if Perk and Rasheed were not injured.
The C’s in 11 built a older but maybe one of the most deepest and talented clubs in Celtic history but due to injuries and the Perk trade the C’s fell short of winning a title.
I think the C’s this year in year 5 of the big 3 window , Danny and many fans (including myself) thought the chances of winning a title would be the slimmest of all previous years since due to the big 3’s advanced age, which is not Dannys fault.
The C’s had a nice 5 year run, where they accomplished there goal to win a title and had shots to win additional titles also.
But that window is now simply closing since the big 3 can not play forever, which should not be a surprise or reason for panic or blame, especially since we all knew we would be dealing with the window closing 5 years ago.
I think Danny and Wyc did there good job, gave us 4- 5 years of exciting and entertaining basketball, a championship banner and almost a chance at a couple of other titles as well, which most other NBA citys would of died to have the chance to enjoy as we did.
There is also nothing they could of done to prevent the aging of the big 3 and the window from closing this year, unless they have a prescription for the fountain of youth.
All good things come to a end and unfortunately the big 3 era must as well.
Totally agree with
Ford Escort
I'm not the Devil's Advocate but I consiider him a close friend
i am not doing a good job of articulating what I mean and perhaps that means I din't have a valid point but maybe I can articulate better soon
I need facts to back up my argument and I don’t have any at my fingertips..peace
Is it Soup Yet?
for the record
I don’t have any facts either, I’m just stating opinions. Don’t worry, I won’t ask you to show your work! And I don’t mean to imply that Danny is perfect either.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 19, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like the past tense on the "declined."
Don’t shovel dirt on the graves yet, mark my words.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I don’t like casual openness trade talks by Danny Ainge. Clearly he’s frustrated with the team’s play, but there’s other ways to go about motivating this team if that’s his goal. I think at times Ainge can be unrealistic.
What can Ainge truly expect in return for Allen, Pierce and Garnett? Their no longer in their prime and they’re slowing, but can still play. What young prospects are out their that’s enticing that can replace the Big 3. All the big market teams have their stars locked and whatever young talents or stars the smaller markets have are not letting them go.
So what next? No teams will take on Garnett or Allen’s contracts. Ainge will have to wait until this season is over and rebuild.
Ainge isn't trying to motivate the team...
He’s being honest with reporters who are asking questions about rebuilding. Obviously there will be questions from media and GM’s around the league regarding the availability of Ray, Paul and Kevin. Obviously this team isn’t capable of winning it all so people start to wonder, “Are they going to trade the old guys?”
Ainge is doing his best to answer those questions in as non-committal a fashion as possible. He’s not saying, “hey, we’re not playing well so I have to deal these guys to start the rebuild.” He’s saying, “yes, if we continue to play uneven and uninspired basketball I have to consider dealing these guys, IF, the right deals come along.”
That’s no different than what Ainge has always said which is: “As a GM I get calls about lots of players and I always listen to offers but I’m only going to make deals that I feel help the Celtics etc. etc.”
If Ainge is offered something substantial for the vets he’ll make a deal. If not he won’t. That’s essentially always been his stance.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
Maybe actually attempting to answer sports reporters' questions should be known as "Aingian"--
—as opposed to “Belichickian”, which of course is to only provide non-answers to reporters’ questions.
I'm not really sure Ainge answered anything though.
As several of us have noted, he didn’t really reveal anything new here.
He just used more words than Bellichick would have … :-D
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I hope you saw these players play in the 80's before you jump on the blow it up bandwagon
Person: All-star level for 2-3 years
Williams: Solid big man
Stipanovich: 3rd or 4th big man at best
Shrempf: All-star level for 2-3 years
Perkins: All-star level for 2-3 years
these kinds of moves are band aids and keep you at a .500 level…
fool’s gold…
let DA follow his own advice
It can’t be worse than what it is now.
But I personally would just tank this year with no trades. Next year, we get armed with cap space and a chance to put together a core of great players
It can’t be worse than what it is now.
But I personally would just tank this year with no trades. Next year, we get armed with cap space and a chance to put together a core of great players
Exactly just wait until the 2012 season is over. Doesn’t make any sense to the trade the Big 3 especially if u can’t get value in return. Garnett and Allen’s contracts are too big for any team to take on. For now let’s see if this team can mesh and come together as a unit.
+1
Shrempf and Perkins were surrounded by Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp and Kendell Gill. Chuck Person was simply a ball chucker, Herb Williams rode the bench in NY for years.
Just like to add
Shrempf was like a Hedo Turkoglu on roids. He could drive, shoot the 3 (very well) and pass the ball very well too. Rebounded very well for a small forward as well. In 1991/92 he was a better player than Mchale. + You’d get Sam Perkins as a bonus who wasn’t too shabby himself.
The equivelent trade these days would be like Garnett (who will retire at the end of this season or next just like Mchale did) and getting Danny Granger and Paul Milsap in return. Red was loyal to a fault for not doing that. It would have kept the Celtics as major title contenders for the next couple of seasons.
The Rest of the Story...
…that Danny used to tell, but seems to have left off telling is, that not all that long after telling Red he should make those deals, Red did make a deal. He traded Danny Ainge! :)
I don’t think that will have any bearing on what Danny will do now, but it does show that there is more than one way to go. Sometimes you trade the old guy and keep the young guy, but sometimes you keep the old guy and trade the young one…it just depends on what deal is on the table and what is best for your team now and down the road.
exactly!
Traded for Ed Pinkney, Joe Kleine, and a bag of doughnuts! I really think that’s why AInge is immune to fan sentiments, ubuntu, whatever. He knows it’s a business because he lived it.
I think Red lost his touch in his old age.
That was a bad trade.
But anyway, point well taken.
"Phil is obviously a good coach. You don't win that many games without being a damn good coach, ... Remember one thing: He's been very fortunate. He picks his spots. That's all I can say." - Red Auerbach
I almost cried when that trade was made...
since it broke up the fab 5 line up of Ainge along with DJ , Parish , Mchale and Bird who many of us cherished.
I understood the rationale behind the trade though even though I did not like it.
If I recall correctly the C’s at the time just had no big man depth behind Parish and Mchale who were aging and needed bench help to reduce there minutes and work load.
I think Marc Acres and Brad Lohous were the only bigs on the roster at the time and they just did not have the talent to spell Parish and Mchale properly .
The Ainge for Kleine & Pickney trade looked good on paper, as they were 2 young bigs who were high draft picks and Brian Shaw and Lewis could fill in the gap left by Ainge. But I do not think the on the court turned out as well as the C’s planned.
Pickney I think was a athletic and serviceable power forward , but Kleine I think was rather stiff and was more of a end of the bench, banger type center.
I think the C’s could of gotten more for Ainge at the time, but who knows for sure.
tell me about it..
my Danny Ainge poster had just arrived from Sports Illustrated like two weeks before!
lol
I feel your pain.
Yea when I said I almost cried, I real mean it.
I still remember vividly the press conference Ainge had after he was traded.
His eyes were swelled up fighting back tears and his voice was cracking , man it was very emotional.
It really got me when he said (trying to control himself from crying) though I was traded I will always be a Celtic.
I was so glad to see Ainge return to the C’s years later because like he said he is indeed part was part of the Celtic family.
DA was wrong about the "1st Big 3"
The Celtics didn’t fall to the bottom of the league because of the deals they didn’t make in 1990. It was because of the deals they MADE between 1991-1997. Those issues were then compounded by the GM mistakes of the Pitino era.
In 1990 the Celtics had an incredible record early in the year. The team decided to stand pat and not add anyone to the roster. Even still, they probably lose that year to the Bulls and then definitly lose the next couple years to that Bulls squad. Again, they didn’t fall to the bottom of the league TWICE because of not trading the Big 3, but rather because of terrible drafting b/t 1988-1995 and one terrible signing after another. Oh yeah, 2 would be all starts died. IT WASN’T BECAUSE WE KEPT LARRY, KEVIN, AND ROBERT!
Back to the point of the post
What would you do in Danny’s position?
1)Let everyone retire a Celtic…PP Rondo + two new max guys from the FA pool next summer.(PP can’t jump or run anymore but he is a Celtic for life…right? Have you actually watched him play lately?)
2) PP to the Lakers…..(threw that in for laffs…Lakers want him badly…west is a shoot out this year)
3)Trade the big three and start Purdue w/Rondo and get a top ten draft pick with assorted max guys in 2012.(it’s an option isn’t it?)
4) Problem with #1 is they miss the playoffs or play the Heat in the first round….how’s that gonna go?
5)Trade one or two of big three and tank….already kind of tanking…why not do it right? (West is up for grabs…number of potential moves…bazillion dollar contract match ups get in the way.)
My potential choice:
6) PP has value…trade him to a contender….cap space + Rondo next year. (how could a mother name her son Cap? I just hope he can slash…we don’t have that anymore do we?)
“Sure, I think in the next few weeks I’ll have a better feel. If the pattern continues like it is now, then I think that our hopes diminish, of course.
“It still doesn’t mean we do anything, because there may not be opportunities to do anything. But I think that we’ll have a better feel rather than a 12-game sample.’’
“Hey guys. What am I doing with this dynamite you ask? Nothing, don’t worry about it. I look forward to the next dozen or so C’s games—you all play well now, go C’s!”
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
I don't know if it was said already
but I can’t help but think Danny was/still is bitter that Red traded him whereas he kept the rest. That’s why he always spouts off on this story. He’s crazy enough to deal one/all of the Big 3 though. sigh
Danny has no reason to comment
All I do know is that we nor the media know anything. I don’t think Ainge is interested in doing anything now but listening. I think no comment from Ainge iis the best, and if anything, it acts as a bit of a motivator for the main guys, who do not want the team broken up. That’s another thing I think I know is that the players don’t want the team broken up.
If you look at the schedule for the next couple or few weeks, in two to three more weeks (10 –12 more games), or so, I am guessing there is a good chance the team will be at about .500 or better and with the signs of improvement that we are beginning to see. But if that is not the case, and the Celtics remain 4, 5 or more games under .500 at that point, then the team may very well look to add to the assets/options they’ll have going into next year. What form that takes who knows, but one of the least likely would be trading Pierce.
That said, I like the teams I root for to have some continuity that I can identify with, and I think Pierce could be a very useful piece in many ways on and off the court, as the Celts rebuild . Ray would bring those values as well, and to date he is a physical marvel and a great role model, who could be continue to ve a valualbe contributor, if he played on a much lower contract. KG could have value in a back up, mentoring and leadership role, if he would do it at a price that lets them bring in the frontline players they will need. But with KG, I don’t know if his emotional makeup will allow him to go that way.
Times are a changin’, but these three guys, who do not have chronic injuries that won’t let them play (as Bird and McHale did), could be instumental in developing a team for the future at the right price.
So decisions about breaking the team up to me seems complicated by these factors, if the team can create the cap space it needs without sending these guys away. So my ultimate feeling is that after another few weeks if things still looks bleak, rather than hopeful, with this team, then Danny will consider moves , but because of the factors I mentioned about these guys, only if the Celtics get some truly valuable picks or players in return for their future.
by SteveZ from Edgemont on Jan 19, 2012 6:23 PM EST reply actions
I just can't see any trades including the Big 3 that would make sense
What’s the right price for a franchise player like Paul Pierce? Almost nothing.
Otherwise, you don’t hurt your cap unless you get Ellis, Iguodala, Joh Smith, Cousins, Jefferson. But are those players even available? And if they arr, can we offer the best package?
There might be other trades available that don’t include the Big 3 BTW. For example, the Utah Jazz have way too many PFs, so they might be looking to deal one of them. In fact, most likely scenarios might not include the Big 3, but players like Bass, Johnson, Moore, Bradley and Pietrus. As good as Bass is for example, you trade him if you can get Derrick Williams in return (or you trade moore and a pick, whatever, I’m not an expert, but you get the point).
I think this is how Danny operates. I remember when Ray was supposedly going to get traded. It ended up being Eddie House for Nate Robinson. A year after? JO? Big Baby? No, Perkins. So… This might all just be a huge smokescreen.
Danny should just trade himself
End of story.
by KingCeltics on Jan 19, 2012 8:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
check out Banner 18 > Retirement Party
i posted a realistic trade scenario that DOES NOT include the Big 3 and is reasonable.
just plain clueless
it goes to show you how smart danny really is that he would take a stiponovich herb williams trade for a living legend bird whats next pierce for chuck nevitt just go away you moron
lohaus #54
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