Can We Rebuild Around Rajon Rondo?
by Jeff Clark on Jan 21, 2012 11:12 AM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintElrod Enchilada is an old friend of the blog. In fact, he's been writing online for as long as I have about the Celtics. He's developed a well thought out and detailed theory on building a Championship team that centers on having a top 5 or at least top 10 star on your team. So the logical question he comes up with is "does Rondo qualify?" He's not so sure.
Danny Ainge And The Art Of The Rebuild - RealGM Articles
So how could anyone ever consider Rondo a candidate for top-10 status? As Bob Ryan put it, Rondo’s game is sui generis. When he is on his game, relentlessly attacking the rim, drawing fouls, commanding the offense with unrivalled vision, skill, and panache, and being the most disruptive defensive guard of this generation, Rondo is as good as any player in the game. America had the privilege of seeing that Rondo numerous times in the playoffs over the past four seasons, when he cranked out insane triple doubles. But, alas, that Rondo only appears occasionally, perhaps because his body cannot stand the wear and tear of such a physical game. Most of the time Rondo is far less aggressive offensively, and is a top-25 player, not a top-10 player. And that is all the difference in the world when it comes to having a contender. Bottom line: Rondo can be a magnificent #2 guy on a championship contender, but if he is the best player on your team, you are unlikely to be in the inner circle of legitimate contenders.
Do you agree?
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I tgink he’s a good No.2 option. Which is an upgrade from past years where he hardly looked like a No.3 option. His jumper is getting a bit more consistent & his FT % while not improved, his form & follow through look better. He’ll improve on those.
I think we need a bunch of athletic players & some spot up shooters. Rondo has really been spoiled passing to Ray for 3’s lol. I like building WITH Rondo but not AROUND Rondo. I’m hoping Danny somehow trades up in the draft & gets Michael Kidd-Gilchrist or Bradley Beal.
by Mub33b on Jan 21, 2012 10:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Here’s 25 players better than Rondo
not in any particular order
Kobe Bryant
Lebron
Wade
CP3
Durant
Carmelo
Dwight
Gasol
Gasol
Gay
Randolph
Blake
Rubio
Love
Deron Williams
Dirk
Mcgrady
Kidd
Pierce
pick another 25 players at random
and that list will be consistent with this one.
by ianboyextreme on Jan 21, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
WHAT?
Kobe-sure, but only for maybe another year or two
Pau Gasol-iffy at best, neither is a player you can build around, I’d say it’s even
Gay-better scorer, but Rondo is better at evrything else…again neither is a #1 type talent
Randolph-see above-minus rebounding
Rubio-please, dude is a rookie. maybe, but not yet
McGrady/Kidd/Pierceare you kidding me?-what league are you watching?
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
nope
Rubio has upside for certain, but, has in no way shown he will be capable of equalling Rondo’s all-around game.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Are you talking about now or based on careers? McGrady, Randolph, and Kidd are done, guys like Rubio and Marc Gasol are still green. Honestly Rondo might be a top five point guard when you factor in all around game. The problem is he isn’t seen as a leader/guy that can take over the game. He has shown flashes of this, but if he can’t do it consistanly he’ll never hit that plateau. It’s a shame because guys like Howard would only look better on the floor with him. Too bad its not sunny and 80 degrees all year round in Boston.
REVISED TOP 25 PLAYER LIST
Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Durant
Ellis
Aldridge
Love
Iggy
Horford
Dirk
Dwight
Grainger
Carmelo
Deron
CP3
Billups
McGrady
Kidd
Westbrook
Detlef Schremp
Al Jefferson
Rose
I think he is a #2 and that we are very lucky to be paying him like one moving forward.
"What good is a man who won't take stand? What good is a cynic with no better plan? I believe in a better way." Ben Harper
+1
How do you rebuild around someone who can’t hit free throws and is inconsistent overall?
Cant keep his opponent in front of him and
he’s the most disruptive guard of his generation? LOL He got abused be westbrook the other night and regularly gets beat anytime he cant freelance. Well no the big 3 are old and he will be getting exposed more and more. Like perkins, he made his name off riding the coat tails of others. Danny better get a hell of a lot of talent to go around him!
i think that's the fairest assessment of rondo's game
but this seems to leave out the fact that he’s one of the best distributors.. having 3 HOFs has helped, but even with a team of jeff greens and brandon basses and (hopefully) a legit star, i think he can put up 10+ assists a game.. plus his defense is second to none, although he does gamble from time to time..
in the end, i think a big part of the next couple of years hinges on rondo utilizing that jump shot, hopefully improving his free throw shooting even just into the 60 – 65% range, and continuing to be a leader on defense.
10 star
He’s playing like a top 10. When he’s aggressive he’s top 10, but when he’s not he’s not 10. Right now he’s the Celtics best player. Rondo is the only one playing with energy and a sense of urgency.
Absolutely not. When you can’t score the basketball consistently from the perimeter, can’t hit foul shots and don’t bring consistent effort, any attempt to rebuild around Rondo brings disaster. I’m still interested in moving him.
I think I agree
that Rondo isn’t necessarily a #1 guy. That said, he is a great asset, not just as a trade chip, but as a player, at his current contract.
Who would you rather have at Rondo’s price tag? What can you flip him for?
He does not prevent you from trying to grab a “#1” guy and he can definitely be part of a rebuilding process, and has already proven that he can be a major asset on a championship-caliber team.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 21, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
THIS^
All the talk about ‘#1’ vs ‘#2’ or ‘Top 10’ – kinda misses the point.
All that matters is whether with his level of talent and at his price, you can build a championship team WITH him.
2007-2008 (not to mention getting so close in 2010) proves that Rondo has the talent to be part of a title team.
His contract is also low enough that it doesn’t interfere with what you build around him.
What needs to happen is to put the other pieces in place.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I don't think it misses the point
Many players out there can be part of a championship team. You can’t just put anyone around Rondo and expect to win a championship. Unless it’s a true star or a superstar, we’re only getting to the playoffs and being mediocre like the Hawks. Heck, Steve Nash couldn’t win it with Stoudemire, or Nowitzki, Stockton couldn’t win it with Malone. I could go on. I do think he conversation is important and does not miss the point. If Rondo’s the best player on is team, we’re not winning anything.
No one said anything about putting just 'anyone' around Rondo.
‘Many players’ aren’t starters on a championship team.
Arguing about whether Rondo is a ‘top 10 player’ or ‘a superstar’ is wasted energy.
Even Michael Jordan did not win a title until he had 2-3 legitimate and complementary great players around him.
Rondo may or may not be a ‘superstar’ but he is definitely a great player and because his price tag is so reasonable, he is a perfect building block for a great team. But you need the other pieces – and they have to be great pieces.
There are definitely much better players than Rondo in this league. But most of them have max contracts that make it impossible to add the complementary pieces around them.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I don't know if this makes sense,
but I don’t think that Rondo can be the “best” player on a championship team, but as a top-tier PG with a unique style, I do think he can be the “most important” player on a championship.
I don’t even know exactly what I mean, but I stand by it
Rondo doesn’t have to be the best player. He doesn’t have the salary of one of the league’s elite players.
But you can still “build around” him by bringing in pieces that will fit with his style.
And I’m ot even saying that the Celtics must keep Rondo, but as a fan I hope they do, and I think it might be a wise basketball decision, depending on Danny’s vision.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 21, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
So... I think we all agree
In that Rondo can’t be our best player if we want to win a championship.
It depends on who the other players are.
And I don’t think you can say anything more definitive than that.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Maybe even #3
He can pass the ball. That’s it, so he can’t be your first or second option on offense. He’s not a top 10 guy in this league, and not even his defense has been that good lately.
by Celticsdude on Jan 21, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Celtics fans need to be honest with themselves.
It’s clear the Big 3 era is near end or at it’s end. I hate to say that, because I’ve have so much respect for Garnett, Allen and Pierce. The reality is they’re getting older and unfortunately it’s showing in this compressed 2012 season. They look slow, tired and uninterested during the past 5 games.
The team comes out with no energy. They don’t get back on transition defense and they’re settling for too many jump shots. Part of me is believes father time caught up to starters at a bad time or maybe they lack chemistry or out of shape because of the lockout.
As far as Rondo I like him and I think he’s a great player, but he has do something about his free throw and jump-shooting shooting. He’s been in the league for 5 years now and he still can’t shoot, that’s a problem on his end. Rondo could be a top 10 player if he were consistent with his shooting, but as of now he’s top 25.
The reality is there aren’t many trade options at this point. Why trade Garnett and Allen if their contracts expire after this season? What team will be willing to take on Garnett and Allen’s huge contracts? Why trade Paul, he’s a franchise player and Celtics lifer.
Okay he came into this season out of shape, but u don’t ship Pierce off as if he doesn’t mean anything to the history of the Celtics or the fans. That’s like the Lakers trading Kobe. What value can Celts get in return for the aging Big 3?
The small market teams have no prospects except for players like Durant, Westbrook, Love, Jennings, Evans, Cousins, Rubio, Martin, Scola, Nene, Galonari, but their teams will never trade. The Big market teams have their stars and we all know they’re staying and are not coming near Boston.
After Garnett, Pierce and Allen are gone, because I believe they’ll be gone after this season. Danny and Doc will have get younger it makes no sense holding on to aging players that are no longer capable. The Celtics will have to start the re-building process without or around Rondo.
Maybe get some good draft picks or etc. There will be hard times coming after this season.
No, he's more of a supporting player. Too inconsistent.
as long as he does not have a consistent perimeter jumpshot and freethrow shooting he will never be at top10.
answer is
NO.But he can help you get to where you wanna go either by his play or trade value
Wow, people are missing the point of this article completely
The point isn’t if Rondo is a top 10 player or not. I mean, really, is there any deabte he isn’t a top 10 player? I love Rondo as much as anyone, but he isn’t top 10. Top 25 for sure, but not top 10. And that is perfectly ok. He is on a very reasonable contract, and there really is no reason we can’t keep him AND
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
you're right... this article really makes a ton of sense
so the question is, what is preferable: a final victory lap this season, or paul pierce on the lakers, ray allen on the heat, and a couple of number one picks to show for it??
by milt palacio's shot on Jan 21, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Not that we can get him for real but Howard is that perfect running mate for Rondo
lots of easy buckets. add a good wing and a couple great shooters and you are there.
i guess the point is no you can’t use Rajon as the center piece
I never
really thought that Rondo and Howard would be the ideal combination. The transition game would be awesome, and while there would be awesome lobs, the halfcourt spacing and free throw shooting would be terrible
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Jan 21, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
agreed - i am much more in favor of a Kevin Love/Rondo dream scenario than a Howard/Rondo one... less obvious holes
by milt palacio's shot on Jan 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta say - I would LOVE to somehow get 'Love'.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Wow, people are missing the point of this article completely
The point isn’t if Rondo is a top 10 player or not. I mean, really, is there any deabte he isn’t a top 10 player? I love Rondo as much as anyone, but he isn’t top 10. Top 25 for sure, but not top 10. And that is perfectly ok. He is on a very reasonable contract, and there really is no reason we can’t keep him AND attempt to aquire a top 10 type talent.
The writer laid out multiple ways we could accomplish this. None of them to my knowledge would preclude us from keeping Rondo. It may work out that he is the player we use to aquire that top 10 type talent with, but not necessarily.
Rondo would make a great #2 option on any young up and coming team. This is made even easier given his cap friendly contract.
Where I disagree with the writer, is on Danny Ainge. The writer praises Ainge for building the current team that won a championship, as if it was Danny’s plan all along. This is just not true. Danny had no plan. He was like a person wandering around, lost, in the woods with no idea how to get out. Even the lost can sometimes stumble out of the woods. Danny was just making one move after another, hoping that eventually one of them would pan out. How is this brilliance?
This is why I don’t have very much faith in Danny going forward. I don’t trust him to be able to hit an inside the park bunt home run, AGAIN.
Again, the point of the article was to lay out how to properly rebuild a team into a contender, and the few different ways it can be done. It was also to point out, this takes time, and we will likely need to be patient. It was NOT meant as a “bash Rondo piece”. There is nothing wrong with recognizing Rondo for what he is, a great #2 piece.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
It's sad that you think that
Ainve and the Celtics front office are one of the. Eat at layi g out multiple shirt and long range scenarios with contingencies to mitigate risk.
Only a fool would think “there was no plan” with all the available evidence produced through the media coverage of this team. I myself wrote many articles pertaining to the strategy involved with Ainge’s decisions leading up to 2007 and they were consistent with what transpired.
The only element of “chance” involved was a calculated junction at draft time where Ainge may have planned for a Kevin Dirant future vs a veteran trade – both these scenarios were gamed out far in advance, when Ainge allowed the team to enter the season as a “tank” worthy roster and had Pierce sit for months longer than necessary.
There has always been method
by BillfromBoston on Jan 21, 2012 4:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I disagree that Danny has no plan.
Danny has operated with specific long term strategies in place.
In the years leading up to 2007, he very deliberately built up tradable assets, not worrying whether they fit together as a team because his intention all along was to deal them for pieces that DID fit together. He then had the guts to pull the trigger on getting Ray & KG.
SINCE then he has had his eye very clearly on the long term salary cap picture, being very careful to avoid anything to mess that up.
A lot of the minor deals and signings over the last 3 years have been dictated by circumstances beyond his control – salary cap/roster restrictions, injuries and such. Players have been lost to contracts we could not afford and we’ve often had limited choices of whom to replace them with at the minimum contracts we could afford. Our draft picks immediately after the title were low. So you may think that some of the shuffle is haphazard, but the fact is that through all that Danny has kept his long-term strategy in place.
If things hold form, we’ll reach the end of this season and have a ton of cap room and two first-round draft picks to either use or deal. That’s a very strong rebuilding position to be in.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
The thing I found most discouraging about this article
Was when the writer pointed out that the Celtics next future superstar is probably not even in the league yet.
I, unfortunately, completely agree. None of the current superstars will be wearing Celtics unis. They’ve either already choosen a side, have shown zero interest in coming here, or are still on rookie deals (which means restricted status-and the team they are currently on holding most all the cards).
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
I don't know... what about Kevin Love?
He’s probably somewhere on the cusp of top 10, and even though Minnesota can give him a full contract I think there are some reasons for hope.
1) he worshipped Larry Bird growing up. Playing in Boston might mean something to him, and even if boston isn’t a hot spot, anything probably looks better than minnesota.
2) the wolves are a small market team, not necessarily going to tie all their money into one player (though they’d be pretty foolish not to)… which leads me to…
3) Minnesota is still being run by David Kahn!! That is all you need to know. Anything is possible with David Kahn.
by milt palacio's shot on Jan 21, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think...
Rondo should be the 2nd tier star on the team and its preferable for the C’s to get a #1 tier star to play in front of him.
Make it end!!!! all this blowing up discussion is killing me
Too bad we are not talking about how the celtics are kicking butt and analyzing how easy or hard the rest of the season will be……
But if I have to:
I think Rondo can lead our franchise if he is surrounded by stable teammates year after year. Remember before the Perk trade when the key players all had years of experience and a large collection of plays? I think we have become too predictable because Rondo isnt able to be as creative as he once was thus teams plan on him running the show. There seems to be a lot of confusion on offense and this is hurting our team. There is no way Rondo can handle the physical beating either. Maybe the best case scenario is we suck this season, resign our vets for cheap, draft good or trade pick with with a brandon bass and get a better player, sign Jeff Green, and then have a reallllyyyy good year next year and the year after and after and after and after and after and after and after and after and then we sign Jiri Welsch (yours personally) and be good that year and the year after and the year after.
Here's 25 players better than Rondo
not in any particular order
Kobe Bryant
Lebron
Wade
CP3
Durant
Carmelo
Dwight
Gasol
Gasol
Gay
Randolph
Blake
Rubio
Love
Deron Williams
Dirk
Mcgrady
Kidd
Pierce
Who cares?
What’s the point of this? Not hatin’ – just wondering.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
what does number 1 option mean?
Does it mean number 1 SCORING option? Of course Rondo isnt the number 1 scoring option on a team. Hes the point guard and while he isnt the number one scoring option, he will almost always be the best player on the court. I dont think anyone ever expected Rajon to be a number one scoring option nor should they. Chris Paul isnt even the number 1 scoring option on his team. Its all the other things he does that makes him a player to build around.
Is there any doubt that Bill Russell was the best player on his celtics teams?
No. and he consistently averaged 16 ppg. Thats not a number 1 scoring option.
trade idea i seen on the forum..sounds interesting
if DWill cant get Dwight to come to NJ, then i hear he may not resign with NJ, which may mean NJ may look to deal him. so if that happens then how about this 3 way deal…
Celtics – Dwill, Monte Ellis, and D.Wright
NJ- Rondo, Biedrins, (clippers pick from Bos)
Warriors- Paul Pierce, Rays expiring contract, and Avery Bradley
He wont want to come to Boston if he goes to FA though.
Not saying Danny might not try anyway, but it’s unlikely.
He’s already said he wants to go to LA, since he lives in San Diego.
Just the usual, everyone wants to live on the beach.
so we would have dwill, ellis, wright, and stiesmsa to build around? awesome!!!! lets pull that trigger
plus kgs expiring deal
our 1st round pick,
Bass,
pietrus,
the rookies ,
jeff green maybe next season
and Dwight as a FA :)
The Warriors are not making that trade and DH is NOT WALKING THROUGH THAT DOOR
But @jiriwelsh: easy to make fun of a trade, but what about your idea:
Rondo
+ Aging cheap vets
+ Random trade/pick
+ Bass & Green
= good team?
It’s even worse than this trade idea with NJ & GS.
one is unrealistic one is realistic, you guess which one is realistic. you say “easy to make fun of a trade” but then you make fun of a trade???? Whats your pooopooo trade suggestion smarty?
curry,ray,pierce, lee is a good combo
main piece they giving up is ellis who they been on the fence about for awhile.. not unrealistic at all to me.. especially if NJ doesnt want to lose D.will for nothing. and Warriors can use a little defence for a change an with mark jackson i could see it working out.
trade machine actually has the warriors an Nj get better an C's getting worse
but with a bleak future ahead for the celtics as of now..its better then nothing and gives us a lineup that can score
Not much to disagree with in the article. A couple of minor quibbles (and minor they are) would be that "Celtics fans, for the most part, bought into the program". My own opinion is that at best it was a 50/50 split, in that 50% were calling for Ainge’s head and regarded him as a failed leader. All they wanted was a return to relevance; any short lived playoff appearance would do. For some, it is difficult to see that sometimes improvement comes in the form of a worse record and better picks (acquiring more assets, basically, rather than functional but low upside veterans who may get you to the playoffs, but provide no real shot at a championship). Ainge had that very thing when he took over, and rightly blew it up to try to assemble a true contender. There were a great many that couldn’t see beyond the win/loss column when judging Ainge. I believe Ainge will again take the long view, and just as last time, there’ll be plenty calling for his head as the rebuild follows, more or less, the same arc as last time.
The other minor quibble would be about who potential trading partners might be. I think the only teams that would be interested in taking on any of the Big 3 are teams right on the cusp of a championship, and for whom one of our guys could be the piece that puts them over the top. Teams like Utah and Atlanta (mentioned as possibilities) don’t fit the bill, in my view. The Lakers, also mentioned, do.
Anyway, good summary of both the past and the present. My own view is that Ainge will have to rebuild in much the same manner he did last time. I see no reason why he cannot be successful in doing so again. He’s already proved he can do it. Just be ready for the same hailstorm of doubt and criticism to be leveled at him as last time. Make no mistake, we will be bad to very bad for a couple of years, and many will regard that as abject failure on Ainge’s part (disregarding the fact that we’ll be acquiring tradeable assets). As the author said, Danny has the benefit of having ownership (who themselves were bitterly criticized) that shares his long view. Winning is obviously more fun than losing, but as long as a fan has hope (and in some cases faith) that their leader is steering the ship in the right direction, it can be pretty fun watching the process play out. It always seemed that Danny had some interesting, and in many cases completely unexpected moves that he’d do through the years (particularly in the acquiring assets phase). Very much looking forward to watching it play out again.
It's fun RO watch
In many ways, it’s extremely compelling theatre if you are a student of the business of te NBA. I myself much prefer it to watching the current team perform without purpose, beyond the potential trade value.
Mediocrity with no upside is torture – give me a title contender or a rebuilding effort to follow and I’m happy – it’s listlessness that is intolerable
by BillfromBoston on Jan 21, 2012 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
wish I had your perspective on this mencius...and I respect it
There are things about DA I just don’t like…no matter how hard I try. I love the Celtics and always have. I don’t mind rebuilding but I don’t particularly trust DA to do it again because I think most of it was luck in the first 8 years or so. He seems more like a " weasely moth to a light" to me than a someone who methodically moves thru well though out plan.
Is it Soup Yet?
LOL, I hear you, Po
I respect your opinion too, but we just disagree on Danny, but that may be a bit of confirmation bias on my part, in that I’ll pick and choose things that I already know I agree with, given my own bias, and you probably do likewise from your perspective. I do agree with you that there was some luck involved, but in my view DA is one of the better GMs in the league. He’ll really show his mettle if he can build yet another contender from scratch this time. As long as he’s got this ownership group above him, they’ll likely give him ample time to give it a try, too, so I guess we’ll really see how good he is now. Everybody thought Dumars was some kind of preeminent genius a while back, and now nobody really thinks that. I thought Pritchard up in Portland did a truly outstanding job of simultaneously assembling talent and clearing out the old Jailblazers crew and completely changing their culture up there, and yet he got canned.
Interesting few years ahead of us. I agree, BfB, rebuilding can be a pretty fun time as long as you feel like you’re moving in the right direction, which I used to think we were. Must be fun to be following Minnesota about now, too, as their rebuild is really taking off. Anyway, looking forward to seeing what Ainge can accomplish. One thing about him is he’s never boring.
If the Hawks tank this season they might be in a rebuilding phase. Guys like Horv and Smith are the best the C’s might be able to do in free agency or trade. It’s sad that Boston can’t attract the big names, shows what prissy boys some NBA players are. The best we can hope for is if Love doesn’t sign an extension and Minnesotta doesn’t have the money to match a max contract.
Elrod Enchilada ....now that's someone I could build a team around...Jeff Clark as a reserve ..LOL
Is it Soup Yet?
Without question, the answer is #2.
Here’s the thing though, I’m convinced it’s been Danny’s plan all along. He’s not paying Rondo as a #1 guy, he’s paying him as a piece of a contender, now the centerpiece (9mil a year? That’s not #1 guy money, keep that in perspective.)
Rondo can without a doubt be the point guard and leader of a Championship team, obviously, he’s done it already, and he’s better now than he was then, without question.
But you need those other guys, you need what Pierce and KG were in 2008, sadly, they’re clearly not those players anymore. But moving forward, if you can find those pieces around Rondo again, of course it can work.
I respectfully disagree
Rondo didn’t lead us to a championship. The Big 3 did,
But I agree in that if you put great players around Rondo at this point of his career, he’ll be amazing. But, can’t you say that about many players in the league?
You should give him more credit than that
“many players” don’t dominate the playoffs in back to back seasons when the star players need the extra production – he’s a fantastic player – you move him if he yields a superior talent, but you try and add superior talent to him first.
by BillfromBoston on Jan 21, 2012 4:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's gonna be a rebuilding process...
When Pierce, Allen and Garnett are gone, probably after this season. It will be lengthy re-building process. That is the reality. You don’t see players like Garnett, Pierce and Allen anymore. It will be hard to replace those 3.
If anyone has actually watched the games this season
You know it is time to make the changes necessary for future success. O’Neil and Pierce are basically unable to run at all. KG is fighting with all his heart, but is overwhelmed particularly on defense. When Rondo plays he is the only Celtic with enough speed to challenge the opposition. I have watched games where Rondo is the only player on the floor making any effort.
This conclusion is supported statistically. It is painful to watch…and the pain continues. Waiting for so and so to return from injury is no longer an effective excuse.Denial is not a river in Egypt. Carping about Ainge trading a 6 PPG center and hoping the big three will get young again is fine, but, I assure you, Ainge, who probably put together one of the top five greatest teams of all time trading a small forward from Providence College and some draft picks, will do what it takes…thank God. This basketball is awful.
Rondo is not a top 10 player overall, but he is a franchise player.
As Lebron James has shown us in his career, even if Rondo were a top 5 player that’s still not enough for any franchise to become championship caliber. Rondo would need to be surrounded by other franchise players to make the Celtics great again. That would also be true if he was Steve Nash in his prime.
This season will be interesting to see exactly what Rondo is capable of. After last night’s game it seems undeniable that he is the most important player for the Celtics. How good he and they can be when the Celtics are this much more dependent on him remains to be seen.
Rondo has often been criticized that his assist numbers are purely a by product of being surrounded by great players who can score. There’s an element of truth in this, but it’s also very much a two way street. If Ray Allen, KG, Pierce get more clean looks at their type of shot as a result of Rondo then it could be said he’s artificially inflating their FG%.
I think for that reason Rondo is a franchise player in that he amplifies the talent of everyone on the floor with him. He’s not enough by himself to make the team great, but few if any players are and Rondo is one of the best point guards in the league. Trading him for a “Franchise Player” seems like it would one step forward, one step backwards for the Celtics, especially given how much of a bargain his contract is, and how much cap space will be available to sign talented players to play alongside him.
I agree and disagree
Rondo does need stars around him to be deadly. He’s not untouchable. I’d trade him for Deron Williams, for example. This has been Rondo’s team for a while. He hasn’t improved. He’s doing the same things he’s always done so no need to wait and see if he’ll be a 75% FT shooter.
I also think you do need a top 10 player to win a championship. The LeBron comparison works both ways because LeBron always lost against Complete teams led by at least one top 10 player (Duncan, KG, Pierce, Allen, Nowitzki, Howard, etc.).
My point with Lebron
Was not that a team can be championship caliber without a top 10 player. It’s that having one top 10 player is no guarantee of being championship caliber. Also I was saying that someone can be a ‘franchise player’ even if they’re not top 10 in the league. For example, Russell Westbrook. Neither he nor Rondo are top 10 players, but having one of the best point guards in the league does put you closer to being championship caliber.
I agree, it's not guaranteed
But unless you’re the Pistons, you need a top 10 player to win a championship, in my opinion. Especially in today’s NBA where teams have one or two top 10 players.
That realgm article is a great read
Rondo is a good #2 IMO, maybe even a #3. Depends on the person he is paired with. If it was someone like durant him being the #2 should work well, Rondo creates and sets up durant all over the place. If it is dwight howard or someone like him they will still need a perimeter scorer to create spacing and go to in the 4th.
its all about the big man
rubio and cp3 and deron are no better then rondo cp3 and williams are like glass they are always hurt when rondo gets hurt is because he goes all out and plays reckless not stubbing his toe or pulling a hammy cp3 and williams would never play with a dislocated elbow like rondo did against the heat last year in the playoffs.we need to build around a dominant center and another SF dont know who we can get in free agency or the draft but thats what we need to do to go along with rondo ainge has to understand this there are not many good PG that can run a team like rondo can and already have a championship to there credit
lohaus #54
cp3 and deron are better when all are at 100%
Rondo is tougher in terms of playing through injuries, but in the 4th quarter with the game on the line I would trust cp3 and deron more. They are better at scoring themselves, even if they are gonna pass it eventually, they attract more attention first.
whatever then
well u know what then trade rondo already im sick of hearing how he is not better then certain players the next guy your going to say is better then rondo is luke walton better yet trade the whole damm team im done.
lohaus #54
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