Rumor: Owners Give Ainge The Green Light To Blow Up Celtics
by Jeff Clark on Jan 21, 2012 4:33 PM EST
in Boston Celtics Rumors
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PrintAnother day, another tremor signaling an upcoming potential earthquake.
But with Paul Pierce dealing with heel issues, Kevin Garnett fading, Ray Allen still effective shooting threes but headed for his 37th birthday and the Celtics 5-8 entering the weekend, the team’s owners gave GM Danny Ainge the official go-ahead to move any member of the troika. "We’ve got to move on," said one Celtics official. "Let’s face reality."
Without [Jeff] Green or [David] West, ownership finally conceded the team doesn’t have the quality reinforcements to make a deep run. Ainge says he won’t hesitate to trade off any member of the Big Three in the right deal. If he can find any takers.
I don't like it, I'm against it, and I'm still skeptical it will actually occur. But there are more and more signs that it could very well happen. Is the end near? Well, ...maybe.
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The bright, red, CANDY-colored button!
LOL – awesome!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
With the way the Celtics are playing I wouldn't blame ownership or Ainge for feeling that way
But the only source I see is “one celtic official” and not a direct quote from Wyc or Danny. Not sure how legit that source is.
Yeah, how many team officials are there and which one is leaking junk?
I think Ainge has had this authority for awhile now. plus the celtics don’t even have a TOP 25 NBA PLAYER
by jiriwelsch on Jan 21, 2012 5:44 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Thus, it begins....
If they can move all three for another 2 1st rounders and 45 million in cap space next year…. This team will be much better off for a quick return to competitiveness.
by BillfromBoston on Jan 21, 2012 4:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
how?
how are you going to get 2 first rounders without taking on oodles of salary?
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
Take a look at the contending teams and the expiring deals they have.
Pierce to Dallas, Ray to Memphis….KG is a straight buy out, nobody can take on 21 million and not give Boston back long term salary.
by BillfromBoston on Jan 21, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
There are also a number of 3 team scenarios as well
With non-contenders looking to move non-essential assets around….there’s some options, though they’re limited….Boston can always amnesty Pierce and buy out the other two if no trade scenarios manifest.
I don’t see a situation where they just “grin and bear it” all year if the team shows no progress between now and March 1st – there is just too much to be gained by improving draft position while playing younger players and featuring Rondo.
Not winning with Pierce, Allen, and KG for an entire year is really not an option – its a waste of an entire season’s worth of evaluation in other key areas.
One way or another, these three are gone barring a colossal turn around in performance…there’s just no way they’re going to waste 35 minutes a game on this crap, its a complete mis-use of resources.
Maybe Doc starts playing them 20 mpg, but I doubt it….i can’t see these 3 playing starter roles on a 20 – 30 win team though..
by BillfromBoston on Jan 21, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
wow, I don't buy that for a second
just buying them out does nothing, accomplishes nothing but bring shame to the franchise
I’d rather have a victory lap than tank for draft position
we don’t even have many rookies to develop at this point
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
he was saying we should buy everyone out and develop the rookies
I’m not kicking the Big 3 to the curb just so we can give Moore and Stiemsma more minutes, not gonna happen
there’s no reason why we can’t give all the rookies more playing time now, without shuffling off the Big 3 to the graveyard too early
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
I'm pretty sure this was a stab at Danny
Just a very subtle one
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
I was hoping we could further develop JO ;-)
Is it Soup Yet?
by Master Po on Jan 21, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Danny definitely ain't no R.C Buford
-Coulda had D’Andre….instead we got Giddens
-Coulda kept TA ….yet he lets him go just as TA comes into his own (perfect timing-LOL!)
-Traded Billy Walker (the one draft pick that looked like he had promise) for Nate (yikes)
-Traded Semih and Harangody (who may not have amounted to much) for a bag of rocks (well, a bag of rocks that turned out to be Sasha Pavlovic)
Yeah, lately he’s looked more like Isiah the R.C.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
OK
A bag of rocks that contained Sasha and Drop Kick (both were signed as buyouts-made possible by jettisoning Semih and Luke)
I would have rather just had a bag of actual rocks. Those two were useless, and in Sasha’s case, still is.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Bill, That's why trading Pierce and Rondo only....
….and keeping Ray and KG makes alot of sense in terms of strategy.
1. We get more for PP and RR.
2. KG and Ray expire this year
3. More expirings for next year.
by csfansince60s on Jan 21, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Play season out
I say let the season play out. Dont see what you can get in return. Also, things can turn around maybe not a title but one last good run.
by kelly811 on Jan 21, 2012 4:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Let's chill
Alright. Guess we all love the Celtics. Guess we all any guy wearing green uniform. We’d like to fight for #18 this year but anyone can see it wasn’t coming.
We all knew since day 1 of the big three.
All we have to do is let casuals leave the boat and continue rooting our following young rosters. It will take time, but don’t want to be the t’wolves right? And spend money for Milicic’s, Jaric’s and shit.
Let’s develop young guys and keep cap space with room waiting for a good chance to make a contending team. There’s no hurry. I don’t care if it is next, in 2, in 3, in 4 years. Let’s build a solid project guys and we need to be patient and loyal for that.
Plaay-Offfs??? nope. Blow it up!
look at the schedule and tell me when c’s reach .500?
not gonna happen, and .500 record gets you 7th-8th seed. 1st round match w/ Bulls or Heat. WHY?
PP to Clips – KG to Hawks or Mavs – Ray to Knicks.
mark it down.
PP to Clips for who?
Ray Allen to Knicks for who?
KG to Mavs or Hawks for who?
by kelly811 on Jan 21, 2012 4:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Still not sure if any of this will happen
Particularly because KG and Ray come off the books this offseason. We have to get good young players/picks in return, or else we might as well just hold on to them and get the cap space. Pierce is different in that we get a lot of cap relief just by trading him, since he isn’t expiring, but I also think we’d need to get something other than cap space for him.
Don't trade Ray or KG.....Pierce and Rondo to an almost there team like Utah for....
picks (they have their own 1st and Gs’s) and contracts that expire next year like D. Harris and AJeff.
I don’t like it, I’m against it, and I’m still skeptical it will actually occur. But there are more and more signs that it could very well happen. Is the end near? Well, …maybe.
Why don’t you like it and why are you against it. If the team is going nowhere this year anyway, and who among us thinks they are legit contenders, then if Ainge can get something (assets in the form of young talent and/or picks) vs getting nothing for these guys and caveat it doesn’t screw up flexibility by taking on long term bad contracts, why would you be against moving any of them? It simply speeds up the rebuild process, which is gathering as many assets as he can, as soon as he can. If he has the opportunity to get some assets vs getting nothing, he’d be foolish not to do it. As to hurting Pierce’s feelings about being traded, I think the moment PP realizes that Ainge is going into full rebuild mode, he will want no part of that and welcome a trade to a contender, and frankly, only a contender on the cusp of a championship would give us anything for our aging 3 anyway, so it might be moot, whether Ainge wants to pull the trigger or not.
think I've stated my case pretty clearly in prior posts
I don’t buy that you can get anything for them right now
but I’m happy to be proven wrong
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
Yeah, I get the skeptical part.
I’m skeptical that he could get anything done either, given their salaries and not wanting to take on anything long term in return; I just don’t get the “I don’t like it, I’m against it” part, which seems counter to being happy to be proven wrong.
well, to be more clear
I’m against trading Pierce
anyone else is for sale for a price
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark
Me too. Pierce is getting it together and deserves to retire a Celtics. He’s clutch.
by jiriwelsch on Jan 21, 2012 5:51 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah, I understand the sentiment
Given that most likely, only a contender would consider trading for any of them anyway, if PP realizes Danny is going into full rebuild mode, I suspect he would not be unhappy at all to go to a contender. He had a belly full of losing early in his career. Can’t imagine he’d want a second helping of that. One never knows though.
It's about what you can expect to get and whether you jeopardize the long-term strategy.
If you make a trade because the Celtics suck for THIS YEAR then what are you going to try to achieve in the trade?
Are you trying to make the team look better for THIS YEAR? Well, that’s fine, but if it impacts the future (i.e. taking on a long term contract) then it had better be enough to make a title run with. Otherwise, it just doesn’t make sense to do that.
Unless you can come up with a trade that dramatically improves our chances to make a title run this year, then you shouldn’t do such a trade.
So, instead, you make the trade trying to improve the Celtics for the future. Okay, fine. But what? What trade is going to set us up better for the long term than just letting our expirings … expire?
I just don’t see anybody giving us some decent long-term young talent in exchange for anybody we’ve got to deal – not unless we take on a painful garbage contract.
I think the best ‘blow it up’ strategy is the one that Danny has already put in place – play the string out. End the season with a ton of cap space and 2 first round draft picks. Even if neither is a lottery pick, that’s still a lot of rebuilding value when taken together.
A third option is to do a ‘Ray Bourque’ – trade Paul away to a contender for his own sake in return for expiring junk, tank the season to try to get into the lottery ourselves.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Note - I am in no way advocating trading Pierce.
I may be advocating tanking the season though …
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
This is spot on
There just is not much likelyhood we’ll ever get anything more valuable in return for our 3 aging stars then the cap space we’ll get by just letting them walk.
More likely, if we do trade them, is we’ll get marginal talent, bad contracts, and an overall worse situation.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
If Ainge is going to trade one he needs to trade at least two of Ray, Kevin, Paul...
Can you imagine Ainge trading Ray and keeping Pierce and KG? That would be such a slap in the face for Paul and Kevin.
If the organization is throwing in the towel on the season by trading one of these guys for spare parts, which is all you’ll get, then you have to trade or buy out ALL OF THEM. Those are the breaks.
What makes the most sense is moving Pierce for expiring deals because that has a tangible benefit for the future i.e. complete salary cap flexibility. The reality is that Pierce doesn’t help you win anymore and he’s not a draw for free agents so aside from emotional reasons why do you keep him?
Furthermore, does Pierce have any interest in being part of a rebuild? KG? I don’t think so… but I guess you never know.
It certainly is going to be an interesting story to follow.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
As promised
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=52620.0
Let me know what you think.
That's probably the best proposal I've seen so far
but I’m doubtful that Phoenix would give up the 1st round pick as easily as that just to shed those contracts.
I expect it might be more realistic if it is a protected pick. That may still make it worth doing for the Celtics. At that point it becomes a matter of how each team ‘sees’ things. How each wants to play out their future and how they perceive value in each player. I.E. – how Portland looks at Camby – do they over-value him?
I gotta give you an ‘A’ for effort on that one. It would work for the Cs. I just don’t know if it could ‘get done’.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
It's one thing to say 'Ok, do it'
…and quite another, much more difficult thing, to actually find a doable deal worth making.
Anyway, this isn’t news anymore. It’s been obvious for a long time now that this team is ready to make any deal that makes sense. After Danny moved Perk, I don’t see how anyone could ever doubt his willingness to make ANY move, the only criterion being that it improves the team.
7tony2
i don’t agree and it will not be easy to trade anyone
He's actually saying he doesn't think a deal is easily going to happen.
So you actually both agree.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
problem
If your strategy is to let the season go and rebuild next year- fine. BUT DOC HAS GOT TO PLAY THE YOUNG GUYS MORE. Otherwise, you need trade 2 of the big three to find just a couple of young guys to trade for (George, Beasley, Thompson, Randolph,etc). Then Doc will have no problem playing everyone- and to truly know what we can sign as FA’s and what to draft for next year (auditions, as someone put it). These are the two choices. I just don’t see how we can land a mega star – and if we could, it would involve the draft picks we have + players.
Don't trade Rajon
‘am watching 2010 Cavs-Celtics g2 now, nostalgic I guess. Rondo is a beast. He just need players who can follow his pace. I agree with Doc, he is one of the smartest players in the league
If it’s time for new start, he has to be first-main piece of the puzzle.
It is looking like it's time
Still, Danny Ainge has to find a balance between maintaining cap room and also not signing players who are only marginally better than any of the big three at their current advanced age for the long term. It is sad for Celtics fans to see the team sink into mediocrity but at the same time there may not be trades worth making for any of the big 3 this season.
Teams have expressed interest in Pierce, but this still greatly depends on what they can offer the Celtics in return. Allegedly one of these teams is the Lakers. Leaving aside how weird and off putting that would be to see Pierce as a Laker, what would they offer in return? Outside of Bryant, Gasol, Bynum their roster is garbage.
The Utah Jazz have been mentioned to but I feel like for them trading away young budding talent for diminishing veteran talent would not make a lot of sense. I like Milsap and Jefferson a lot but I don’t see either of those guys being traded for Pierce.
If we’re talking about trading them for draft picks then we are basically guaranteeing a decade long rebuilding period. which it seems like it is everyone’s intention to avoid.
As willing as Ainge would be to make trades I wouldn’t be surprised if things end up next year exactly as they have been predicted previous to the Celtics struggles this year. That is a roster with Rondo, Pierce and a lot of cap room. Blowing up the roster has already been built in to the Big 3’s contracts for a while now and there may not be any advantage to trading Pierce or Allen before the deadline. A significantly worse scenario would be having too much cap room and being forced to sign mediocre talent next season.
Is there anyone sane who honestly believes that this group can produce the 18th banner? Of course not.
Ainge has to be careful here, and not get in a rush: What you don’t do is make the multitude of deals proposed on this board for someone else’s garbage. IF you can get useful young pieces and draft picks, you listen to offers for Pierce.
I can’t imagine how snockered Larry Bird would be to put George and a one on the table for Pierce, but I’d weigh that one very carefully
7tony2
we can still win it all with what we have this is a better team than last year
in the playoffs anything is possible
lol seriously, whats keeping u positive..
because i dont see it at all
nice dig
without green or west? Please, like they woulda made a difference. We have Pietrus, dooling is serviceable, and steimsma. Rondo plays outta his mind. This teamneeds better coaching and a decent big man
Maybe we will finally have big news around the deadline this year!!!!!!!!
by jiriwelsch on Jan 21, 2012 6:00 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Pierce goes to Utah for Milsap, Hayward, Miles.
11.3 million on the books.
Rondo for Odom, Beaubois, pick (1.3+Odom Partial)
or
Rondo and Bradley for Matthews, Felton (6.5)
or
Rondo for Paul George, Amundson, Foster (2.4)
Pursue similar deals for KG (unlikely) and Ray.
Tank.
Whisper in Deron and Dwight’s ears
Go with Milsap, Hayward, and Matthews for a total of 17.8 million.
Offer Derron and Dwight max salaries and the chance to play with Milsap, Hayward, Matthews, a good Boston pick, a 20s range clips pick, plus a little capspace and all exceptions available going forward:
Derron
Matthews
Hayward
Milsap
Howard
Bos #1 (4-10)
LAC #1 (17-24)
A little capspace this year
All exceptions going forward.
This sounds like the best option for the Celtics.
by KY Celts fan on Jan 21, 2012 6:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No...
…but you can get a hot mess!
That’s exactly what you’ll have when the plan fails .Deron and Dwight ain’t coming here folks. Let’s be realistic and move on please.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
he should fire doc and extend big 3 contracts
And coach the team himself
by jiriwelsch on Jan 21, 2012 6:13 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
PP should decide
If PP wants to go chase another title, he should be allowed to. If PP wants to stay, he has earned that right. So close to Larry’s scoring record too- maybe that is why Larry is trying to get him
by BringToughnessBack on Jan 21, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Disloyalty is no redeemable quality in my eye.
Some say, it’s just being realistic and pragmatic, I say it’s unbecoming. Oh, well, to each their own….I guess???
The only way I will ever accept Pierce being traded is if he asks. And I just can’t see him asking unless other members of the Big 3 are traded first.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
So now we're comparing 'Toine to Pierce?
Let’s see….
One jacked threes routinely got beat on defense…
The other was a Finals MVP and is a future HOF’er…
Interesting
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Uhh
I’ve watched just about every single C’s game since the late 80’s.
You want to see my Walker jersey? That I still have, by the way.
Look, I loved ‘Toine while he was here, and wasn’t really thrilled when he was traded away for the crap Danny traded him for. But this is completely different.
If you can’t see that, then we’re done here.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
just curious
Do you have a Jiri Welsch jersey too?
by McHaleinthepost on Jan 21, 2012 11:31 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
You act like Pierce has no say in this...
Nobody is advocating sending him to Sacramento, nor would he be sent anywhere without some discussion between he and Ainge.
Loyalty is great, but to an extent. You respect the man and see what his wishes are. But you don’t destroy your future for it either. Pierce gets paid to play basketball and the team has success by paying to win games.
You don’t hurt your chances to win in order to satisfy “loyalty” as a concept. You try to work your respect for the man into the process of improving the bottom line.
by BillfromBoston on Jan 21, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
I understand but Pierce has shown no real indication that he will be unable to produce. Last year was the best year of his career. The man got married, participated in the lockout, shortened season, no training camp. Perhaps I could see trading him if he was a Brandon Roy situation but Pierce has always been the man!! The dude can still play and is as durable as anyone in the NBA. He’s already got his championship…
yeah yeah ....I get that .....but there are more subtleties to doing some this for the organization than I think you be seeing
sometimes an organization can make great business moves and yet …..ruin its reputation and it’s place in the market far out into the future in something a bit more nuanced than what may be staring you in the face at the moment
Is it Soup Yet?
You never count your money when you’re sittin at the table. There will be time enough for countin, when the dealins done.
and sometimes, it´s the other way around
Chris Paul doesn´t want to play for us, but for the Clippers.
I´d say being a winning franchise means more in the eyes of most star players than being loyal.
+1
I agree and frankly this is the way to conduct business moving forward if you’re the Celtics. Ainge is the guy in charge and he’s been very clear about his philosophy in this area. He knows what it’s like to be traded from the Celtics as a player.
Ainge and the Celtics organization has stuck by Pierce and made him a rich man, they helped him get a ring, win Finals MVP, etc.
If Ainge needs to make a move to help this team rebuild no person is going to look at the Celtics as a shoddy organization. Ainge and Doc are well respected around the league.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
Rumor: Owners Give Ainge The Green Light To Blow Up Celtics
Who else would give Ainge the green light certainly not himself. The owners have to okay any trades or drafts. I’m still assuming the 10 game period is still on? I just don’t see what vaule Ainge can get in return for Pierce, Garnett or Allen?
What is KG worth???
Maybe a buyout candidate? Pierce to UTAH, INDIANA, or CLIPPERS makes sense. Ray Allen to Chicago makes alot fo sense, but what team would give up anything valuable for KG?
by Sarcazmo's Funhouse on Jan 21, 2012 6:41 PM EST reply actions
Would both sides want a buyout?
His contract expires after this season. I guess the owners can try to negotiate the contract down a little bit and give KG the chance to go to a contender. Not sure if they want to go that direction or KG would ask for it. Again there is no point of teams giving up anything for KG since he will be an unrestricted free agent. Ainge won’t take on any salary unless that salary is for Dwight Howard and the Celtics don’t have the assets for it.
We def have a record amount of expirings though.
by Sarcazmo's Funhouse on Jan 21, 2012 6:42 PM EST reply actions
The light should have "turned green" ...
on an all-out transition about 2 seconds after the Miami series ended.
The Ferraris have already lapped the Celtics jalopy about 10 times this season already.
Tank! Tank! Tank!
"People don't understand, if you can't live the rest of your life off one year in the NBA, you can't live off 21." -- Keon Clark
The Light Should have Turned Green 2 seconds after the Miami series ended.
Uh-huh. They’d pretty much completed the transformation to a perimeter team and KG was a non-factor despite MIAs vulnerable front-court.
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
by Tenacious D on Jan 21, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Just an idea
It seems like Dwight Howard will finish the season with the magic. If that happens some team will have to sign him and most contenders would need to dump salary to clear the cap space. We could help by basically saying we will take whoever you want to send and we will give you the expiring contracts of oneal and Garnett (27 million Off the books) we also would demand two first round pick unprotected. We trade our old guys for two picks and some role players and they get Dwight Howard that’s a win win
by JuJuan some moore on Jan 21, 2012 7:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If we're blowing it up, lets attempt to do it right!
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7le6shn + we’d have to send out draft picks. Don’t know that the Pacers would go for it, but it would definitely give them that championship mentality and a superstar PG.
still see this trade working well for all..
Celtics – Dwill, Monte Ellis, and D.Wright
NJ- Rondo, Biedrins, (clippers pick from Bos)
Warriors- Paul Pierce, Rays expiring contract, and Avery Bradley or JJ
Doubt it
Warriors essentially send out 2 promising stars and their only big man (with Kwame injured) for 2 aging stars and an unknown? What’s the upside for the warriors?
Paul got something left and Ray give them Veteran Leadership i think..
Ellis is a lost on offense but the warriors seem to always be speculated to get rid or Ellis because him and Curry are similar players..
and Wright i dont think is a star but a good role player and Biedrins isn’t letting go anything special,
maybe give them the clippers pick then and give NJ a future pick
also get a expiring deal with Ray
plus i think they can use Ray better with curry a outside offensive threat
them with Curry, Ray, Pierce, David Lee and JJ i believe is better then Curry, Ellis, Wright and Lee
I understand your reasoning but
Ray is most likely a half season rental, Pierce still has game but he’s going to decline throughout his contract, and JJJ is completely unproven and Bradley is a lockdown defender but not proven in any other capacity. I think they’re going to want more upside for a player of Ellis’ caliber, plus Wright who you’re right isn’t a star, but he is young and above average to say the least. Biedrins isn’t anything special, never argued that, but with Kwame down they have pretty much zero depth at C without him.
Yea its tough to pull the trigger i guess if ur a warriors GM
unless you can plan to do something else with Rays expiring deal.
maybe trade him to a contender who has a better quality backup center then Biedrins
Yeah that would make more sense
if they could flip Ray for a decent younger big man, then I would say the Warriors may look at this deal with some picks. Clippers and a lottery protected future Nets pick would probably make this happen
DWill and Monta? That'd be awesome
And would get us Dwight. But is also risky and… unlikely… who knows these days, though
yeah ..we sure want Deron.....the guy who ruined brought an end to the coaching career of a HOF coach by the name of Jerry Sloan
that sounds do appealing to me
Is it Soup Yet?
whose playing fantasy ball?
id take Deron in a heart beat and so wouldnt Celticsdude.. and so wouldnt over half the League
If he agrees to re-sign here
we could simply flip him at the trade deadline for another young PG and an upgrade at the PF position. Not exactly ethical, but if it improves the team I’m all for it!
you mean if he doesnt agree, right?
But yes very true as well.. and you could get quite a bit for him. just see what NJ gave up
Well either way it might work
I was saying if he re-signed a multi-year deal here we could flip him to any team we wanted and he’d have no choice. A sign and trade gives him some say in destination. Which is why I said at the trade deadline (talking 2013) whenever he’s eligible to be traded after signing.
We have $7-9M reasons for not wanting DW.
Williams is going to cost at least 19M per year, maybe more. He is, to put it simply, not worth $7-9M more than Rondo.
That money is far better spent elsewhere on the roster.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
i disagree..Deron is a better offensive weapon and is a better chip to build on
we can have the money but if we dont got anyone interested in playing here, then what good is it really?
and wont we still have money to play with when kg’s deal is up? ..least we can work off that to some degree
plus what good is 9 mil
if Danny spends in on fillers like JO, sasha, etc
What good is 9 mil?
You are kidding, right?
You also have to understand the difference between what Danny has been doing up through this year and what he’ll be doing as of next.
Guys like JO & Sasha were the kind of guys he could sign with no long term commitments. Important to keep his cap space clear after this year.
As of next summer, he will be under the cap and can finally offer long term contracts. That is a huge difference. That alone will make the Celtics attractive to a lot of FAs who would not sign for 1 year. You also can spend more efficiently because you can get a guy for multiple years at a slightly lower per annual salary.
As Master Po keeps stating – this is not fantasy basketball. Among other things you have to keep the dollars and the roster rules in mind.
That 9M can be the difference between signing a max contract super stud versus just some journeyman filler.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
no what he stated was he didnt want him because his actions against sloan...whats that got to do with fantasy ball?
and the reason he will get a max deal is because he is worth a max deal
deron, ellis, wright, kg and JO isnt a good fantasy lineup btw right now..
makes a better reality team tho by far!!!
i do agree with you on the route AInge kinda took because he wants players with 1 yr deals tho.
but if we do just ride it out,or however situation you wish to take then what kinda Free Agents do you think the celtics could bring in that would trump a lineup of dwill,ellis,& wright? id be interested to see what better route you think the celtics could go..
I stated why I think the Celtics wouldn't want him. Price. Master Po already stated why HE doesn't want him.
Replacing Rondo with Deron on a max deal is not a good rebuilding strategy.
Rondo is younger, cheaper and more valuable. He’s posted win shares at a very consistent rate, slightly higher than Williams has. Even if you value the few things that Williams does better (scoring) more, its simply no way he is worth THAT much more than Rondo. He’s a slightly better offensive player but Rondo is a massively better defensive player. There is just no way it makes sense to pay that much more money for Williams. It makes more sense to apply that money elsewhere.
If a player like Love makes it to free agency this summer the only way to get him will be to over pay to the point that Kahn will shy away from matching. If we are going to over-pay for someone, I’d much much rather do that.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
so if your plan is to over pay a player then..
your argument is you rather over pay one certain player over another…
which i rather over pay deron ( whose consistently better then Rondo on offense which is what this Team needs now that the big 3 are near the end) an also automatically brings us another star in the deal, and possibly a third who wants to join the dual..
which i feel more stars rather play with Deron then Rondo.. see Dwight.. then if Dwight hits Free agency, Danny trys to work out a deal to have both equaling – Deron, Ellis, Wright, Bass, Dwight
just having to risk trying to over pay Love (which is a risky gamble all on its own) an having Rondo is not enough
I'm not saying it's going to happen
But I couldn’t care less about his past if it helps us win or compete for championships. Believe me, the folks at Miami aren’t complaining about LeBron’s Decision.
exactly..
im not defending him being wrong about his past. Just saying thats a player Id like to have on my Team.
Just Curious about KG and Okafur
When is the latest we can amesty KG and not have his 21 million salary count towards the salary cap (so we don’t have to pay 10-15 million in luxury tax for a sub 500 team.)
You know guys, the last time I checked Hornets are bankrupt and eager to let Okafur’s salary go.
Trading KG’s salary gives us short-term salary relief and trading Okafur gives NO long term relief.
Why not come up with a package involving KG for a package involving Okafur?? (And if not, then why not amnesty so so at least we don’t pay luxury tax and have breathing room when repeat tax kicks in about 2 years.)
Okafur is good dude.
He is one of the best defenders and rebounders in the league. Good shot selection.
We need that in the paint. He is far better than anything we have right now. He might not be Yao or Howard, but we need him right now.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't he better than KG at least?
Surely, I would take him over:
Perk
Sheed
Jermaine
or a 38 year old Shaq.
To say he sucks is a huge exaggeration. He does his job without being flashy.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
If you trade KG, who are you getting better than Emeka??
Be realistic.
Okafur is making 60% of his shots.
KG is going 5-19 on some nights.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Right. He sucks. That's why he's on the AllStar ballot the past 2 years.
Who would you rather trade KG for?
(Or are you seriously holding on to KG??)
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Will you at least concede that he is less overpaid than KG?
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
We're going to get hit with huge luxury tax.
And also huge repeat offender tax in 2 years. This will hamper our ability to reload and attract free agents. If we trade big 3 now, we are better positioned to avoid Repeat Tax than the Heat Lakers and Mavs.
We need to unload KG’s contract. You’re not getting better than Emeka for KG.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
What I'm saying is that....
we don’t want to get caught paying luxury tax 4 out of 5 years once the nasty REPEAT Tax kicks in.
It would be smart to prepare by avoiding luxury tax THIS year. Dump KG’s contract.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
But you would be LESS over thew tax.
And you wouldn’t be over the tax at all if you blew up the team (which means trade Pierce and Allen as well for lesser played players.)
If trade is not available, you amnesty.
Blowing up the team is afterall the point of this entire thread.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
That's why I said PACKAGE dude.
Can you even read I said Package??
Can you read??
Don’t respond if you are not going to answer my 2 ORIGINAL questions
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Ainge will.
KG, Ray, Truth….. low probability they will be around much longer.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Rather let KG come off the books at the end of the year.
Why sign up for 2 more years of paying Okafor 10 mil more than he’s worth? And being on the all star ballot doesn’t mean all that much, Hedo Turkoglu is on the all star ballot, should we sign him up too?
No. But my point was that he doesn't suck.
Duce here says that he sucks.
Suck is a very big word.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
maybe, but he’s not worth the money. i say we sell teams on rondo being a top 2 player, eventhough he’s not, and try to trade out of his contract.
Why? Rondo's contract is one of his most attractive aspects!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
hes paid like he should..
hes not getting top tier pg money because he’s not an elite pg. he’s very good but that doesn’t mean he’s got a great contract just because its not DRose money.. he’s not in that category
That's arguable but irrelevant.
He’s a great value and his contract is not some onerous albatross that we need to ‘trade out of’.
Over the last three years the only PG who’s posted a higher win-share rate than Rondo is Chris Paul.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
3 stars
You almost need three All-Star level players to consistently contend for an NBA title so I wouldn’t be in a big hurry to deal Rondo because once you do that you are starting from scratch. I’m only dealing Rondo, an All-star in his prime if I am getting someone of equal or greater value in return. I’m not dealing him for role players, scrubs or cap space because players of his level aren’t easy to come buy.
If we’re blowing it up I would make everyone else available.
my reasoning
just because he isn’t a franchise player doesn’t mean he cannot and is not a great building block to a title contender.
by CelticsFanNC on Jan 21, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I agree 100%
Wouldn’t trade Rajon unless we were getting CP3 or Deron in return.
But It could soon be time to trade KG, Truth, Ray, and O Neal.
All 4 could be traded or perhaps 3 will be traded and one will be amnestied.
we need to save our amnesty unless it needs to be used on a player on the current roster and not future players.
overall, rondo is a bargain for the money. pierce is a lot but the man can still be productive long term. i think we can sign ray for cheap. kg will retire after this year. we have enough room and some other trade assets that will only improve in value this year. i say we keep ray, rondo, and pierce.
I thought amnesty could only be used on players already on the team during the lockout.
I for on don’t want Ray back. At that age, he can go into steep decline at any moment.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Ray off the bench is well worth a 2 year contract.
For Vets Min or a MLE for 2 years of a sharpshooter to come in and knock down big shots off the bench is more than worth it.
Maybe for vet min and off the bench.
But I don’t see him agreeing to that. He’ll probably end up someplace else. Ainge has a reputation you know.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Ray says he wants to play 2 more years as a Celtic.
With the money he’s made in this league I could easily seeing him taking vet min to stay in Boston with his family and retire a Celtic.
If Ray....
is going 5-19 on some nights; like I’ve been seeing from KG and Truth……possibly yes.
Better to trade him for a prospect, cap relief and maybe even a draft pick if we are lucky.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take Ray coming in to knock down a last second three for us..
over a prospect that may go nowhere, cap relief? he’s off the books this year and a vet min. contract is as low as you can go after non lottery rookies, or a low draft pick (Giddens, Walker, Pruitt, these ringing a bell?) Reggie Miller declined too, but was still a lethal shot at 40.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree and hope
that Ainge is better at this than the rest of us.
But if I had to bet, I would expect a lot of trade and amnesty and movement in general.
by florida dodger on Jan 21, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
just messing with celts trade machine and i pulled off a three team trade.celtics,lakers houston.this can be adjusted.i sent the lakers paul pierce,jajuan johnson.the lakers sent us bynum,ebanks.the celtics sent AB to houston,with ray allen and Jo and the rockets sent us Kevin martin.it went through
i do that for gay but not mayo.i think our plan should be either to lure dwight howard or blake griffin here.
true.i used to be a laker fan so i know all about their players.expect from kobe or bynum.i dont want any of their scrubs
A lot of hand-wringing here, and it's somewhat justifiable ...
but let’s remember that regardless of what Danny and ownership WANT, a lot depends on what’s AVAILABLE. Maybe they want to trade all of the Big 3, but maybe they won’t be able to find good deals for all three, or for ANY of the three. In other words, circumstances could end up forcing the team to stand pat and ride out the season with the current roster, regardless of what any of them (or us) want.
People also seem to not realize that because KG and Ray are expirings, it’s possible to get something (young, cheap talent or picks) for them this year and then resign them on the cheap next season for 15-20 minutes a game and veteran leadership. That wouldn’t mess up our cap space, and it would also multiply our assets. And they could still retire as Celtics.
Both sides of the argument have pluses (and minuses). I doubt there’s a perfect solution. Danny said he’d give it 10 more games, of which I think we’re now down to 9, so let’s just see what happens. There’s still a chance they can turn it around. If not, though … well, whatever.
by rocknrollforyoursoul on Jan 21, 2012 9:12 PM EST reply actions
Also ...
what if Danny is able to turn one or more of our expirings, plus maybe a youngster or a pick, into getting a good young player who has a multiyear deal but it’s a good deal. I mean, since we’re going to be looking to sign some new guys next season anyway, might as well get a head start, if you can, by acquiring a good young talent who’s on a decent multiyear deal.
by rocknrollforyoursoul on Jan 21, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
I do
Melo is too one-dimensional and Douglas is just another combo guard. Rather have Rondo and while Ray is also one-dimensional at this point, he’s better at it and a lot cheaper than Melo.
Not saying they wouldn't...
just saying I personally wouldn’t. I’ve never been overly impressed by Melo and Douglas just seems like a tweener that we don’t really need. Personally I’d rather have a star point guard in Rondo over a scorer in Melo and Allen for his lethal shooting over Douglas a shooting guard in a point guards body. Also like how much cheaper RR/RA is over CA/TD next year.
Not saying it’s a bad idea, I just wouldn’t be on board.
I agree. It's harder to find a stud PG than it is to find a stud SF.
And when you have a stud PG on a journeyman’s contract – that’s much more valuable than stud SF on a max contract.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
With rumors now that the owners are giving Ainge ....
the green light to trade any of the big 3, I think this could be even more proof, Ainge will not be shy to pull the trigger on a deal if the C’s can not turn things around and if he can get a good deal for any of them.
I think this is fair and a sensible route to take for the C’s best interests long term as they seek to rebuild.
Theres no logic really in the blowing up the big 3. What do we expect to get for KG and Ray? Stop giving me dream scenarios that we will get players of any value for them. And would you really give up Pierce? If fans would give up the player that embodies the whole celtic organization then I would say the Cs deserve to get Kobe. Kobe Bryant has no loyalty whatsoever. And do we really expect to get players that will turn this season around? Is there a MJ out there that would be traded for KG and Ray? I say we save face and just let them retire in green. And just lure players with the money we have coming off the books next year. I mean we only have PP and Rondo that will be paying everyone else almost plays for peanuts.
by The green mamba on Jan 21, 2012 10:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Trade with portland they got young athletic Studs
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6vh2tjc
KG:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86lqqzb
The bucks would do it, because they are missing one ore two peaces of the puzzle they could get in 2012 F/A class/
Allen:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7vw6mzw
plus draft picks if you guys have any
Dream scenario
Trade Rondo and filler for Deron Williams, who makes it known that he wants out of NJ unless they traded for D Ho. (Or S+T Williams for Rondo and Bass in the summer) Sign Howard as a FA this summer. Sign KG and Ray Allen to minimum deals. Load up the rest of the roster with vetmins hungry for a ring.
Deron Williams
Ray Allen
Pierce
KG
D-Ho
That’s a contender next season, and when Pierce’s contract is up the next summer, the Cs will have another shot to get an impact FA.
The other way to go at it would be to trade Rondo, filler and a 1st for Williams now, and be the favorite to sigh Howard in the summer. All this is assuming that they want to play here.
How great would it be for the league to have Dwight Howard and Deron Williams on one of the league’s eminent franchises?
exit left dannt boy
dont worry real true celtics fans danny ainge will be fired by next season when he has the celtics winning 25 games and having steimsma as his franchise player
lohaus #54
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