Bradley and Moore Are The Replacements
by Jeff Clark on Feb 1, 2012 6:20 AM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintIf I had told you that Rajon Rondo would miss a stretch of 7 games (and counting) and the team would have gone 5 - 2 during that stretch, well I would probably ask you for the results of the Super Bowl and run to Vegas and retire to the Caymans, but that's beside the point. What is the point is the replacement points have stepped up their games - if you can even call them point guards.
Green Street " Getting the point: Avery Bradley and E’Twaun Moore
Offensively, the Celtics have been winning games almost in spite of Rondo’s replacements at the point: Avery Bradley and E’Twaun Moore. The young guards often bring the ball up the floor and make the first pass, but it’s been either Pierce or Kevin Garnett in the high post who then initiate the offensive sets.
That formula has worked well enough for the Celtics who have generally played to their offensive efficiency of 98.9 points per 100 possessions. Bradley and Moore have also had their moments offensively. Over the last four games, Moore has made 11-of-18 shots and gone 5-for-10 from 3-point range. Moore has been steady, if unspectacular, at the point with 10 assists and eight turnovers and has quickly gained the trust of the coaching staff, as well as his teammates.
That's all well and good, but Avery Bradley can't shoot, right? Then again, according to Doc, it might not be as bad as you think.
Bradley trying to make most of his shot - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston
"Avery’s a better shooter than what he's shot, and we can’t figure it out, honestly," said Rivers. "He makes them in practice, he makes them in the gym when he’s working out. The only guess is that the game is still a little too fast for him. And, at some point, a ball will go in, he’ll slow down, and he’ll make the in-between jump shot. Because that’s what he can make and he can make that consistently."
Of course Forsberg pours some cold water on that optimism.
Here are the sobering facts: In 48 NBA appearances, Bradley is a mere 18 for 91 from beyond 3 feet (19.8 percent), according to HoopData. He's 1 for 10 (10 percent) from 3-to-9 feet; 0 for 6 from 10-to-15 feet; 16 for 59 (27.1 percent) from 16-to-23 feet; and 1 for 16 (6.3 percent) from beyond the 3-point arc. And it's not just the misses, it's how he's missed at times. Some of Bradley's jumpers have been unsightly at times, inspiring even less confidence than if shots simply weren't going down.
Until he proves it in the games, he'll be another point guard on the roster that can't be trusted to consistently knock down open jumpers (never mind contested ones).
So despite Irving's recent outbursts (which I think he'd have against anybody) you know that Bradley is out there for his defense and scrappiness. Moore has shown flashes of scoring and I get the feeling that Doc wouldn't mind using them in a platoon if he could. Hopefully the bench will just be that much better once Rondo returns.
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"Hopefully the bench will just be that much better once Rondo returns"
Hopefully we can stretch our winning streak to double digits to,
Boston Celtics
Mayday Mayday!!!
we are going down!
I repeat we are going down…
Playing Better Basketball.
When the season started, this team looked lost. They were a step behind. The ability to score and rebound eluded us. However, this team has shown drastic improvement. The offense is flowing much better. Our defense is locking opponents down. This is good news. Nevertheless, I still believe that this team is missing a few pieces in order to compete in the playoffs. As it stands now, if the playoffs started, most likely, the celtics will face the heat. I know everyone wants this team to make the playoffs, but if we cannot compete and get past Bulls and Heat, we will only make an early exit. Being 6th-8th seed team is the worst-case scenario in NBA – low draft picks and nothing else. We need to get a center. JO played well against Cavs last night. If he can give us that, a back up center would have anchor our defense. The Cavs were unstoppable when they attacked the rim. We need length, we need rebounding! And hey one more scorer would not hurt – someone like Delonte West, someone who can generate his own offense – it would be Paul on first unit, and that player on second unit.
by Danyck on Feb 1, 2012 8:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
- someone like Delonte West, -
I think Moore is like West who can create and make shots at will
Boston Celtics
Mayday Mayday!!!
we are going down!
I repeat we are going down…
Bradley
Sounds like Rondo is better in taking and making jumpers…. can’t believe I said it.
Next 5 games are winnable.
Time is now to turn the corner on this season. Next 5 games should be wins, with 4 of them at home. Lakers do not scare anyone, except maybe the Bobcats. We will presumably have Rondo back and as close to a full squad as we have had all season. If we can get to 15-10 or 14-11, then that will give this team confidence moving forward and steer us away from a first round match up with the Heat or Bulls.
.500 maybe
we blew the easy part of our schedule.Even as we improve we will struggle with the brutal March games.Stay over .500,get healthy,add a big(Kaman) and we can win any 7 game series over a 2 week span.Or we can get swept.
A crap shoot for sure.The last 10-15 games going into the playoffs will tell our story
Yea hopefully the 4th seed at best.
We’ll have to beat LA at least once, Bulls at least once, Heat at least twice, Knicks at least twice, and Dallas at least once to prove that we are still the elite teams going on.
I am just glad....
that our 2 young and promising backcourt duo of Bradley and Moore have been getting solid playing minutes lately (considering Rondos & Rays injurys) which is giving them some great experience to help with there growth and development .
Its also great that they have helped the C’s win 5 out of there last 7 games.
Yes
The important thing to take away from this recent stretch is more about how the two youngsters have played, not so much the W-L record. Sure, we need to win games, but, it’s nice to see these guys get minutes now, that can be useful later in the season.
These types of situations can sometimes be a blessing in disguise. When Rondo does make it back, Doc can now have confidence to play these two off the bench. And in turn, the players themselves will have the necessary confidence in themselves to be able to contribute meaningfully.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
bradley and moore have been serviceable and can only get better. with time, they need time on the floor which i hope they get from doc. both will see time at the 2. doc tends to play ray way too much and ray can be a liability on d and with sloppy passing. i would like to see them take the ball to the hole more especially with rondo liable to favor his wrist and driving less.
over a career spanning ... 500 minutes - and that include a bunch of games with less than 10 minutes running time
Whatever, you want to focus on oddball singular stats that look negative without context, feel free. It just doesn’t have any value other than for focusing on negatives.
The fact is, that over the last 8 games, given more extensive run time, Bradley has shot a more respectable 41% overall. Not great, but respectable.
He was a very good jump shooter at all levels prior to the NBA. He’s only 21. He’ll find his shot at this level.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
His jumper will come around. Sounds like confidence and game speed.
Doc says he makes his shots in practice all the time. I like the rotation of Moore and Bradley for situational minutes. Bring in Bradley when you want to lock down the opposing PG and bring in Moore for offense. The more they play, the more Dooling is expendable. I do not think Danny is going to do a major deal this season, but I do think he does a couple of minor ones, including shipping Dooling and a draft pick for a servicable back up center. JO and Wilcox have both been injured this season and cannot be relied upon to go the distance.
I'm a Moore fan
But I agree: Trade Dooling and JO!!!
Exactly
Haters gon’ hate.
Great all around defender and he’s been respectable bringing the ball up and getting the team into its sets.
As he gets comfortable the shots will start to go in and there will be plenty of room on the bandwagon.
Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up. - Red Auerbach
Bradley have not even played a full season. Still a rookie.
Missed training camp last year. Could not get off the pine due to point gard depth. I mean, the kid has played very little to be given the responsiblity he has right now. I love the kid and am excited to see him play and grow. I hope and pray the C’s do not package him in a mid-season deal.
+4
Agree with all the 4 posts above me.
Bradley I think has alot of promise but needs more time to grow and develop before we can totally judge his overall talent ceiling.
He shot 43 percent from the field in college
Does 43 percent now qualify as “very good.” He also was a 54 percent free throw shooter in that one year. He shot 45 percent from the field and a really good 87 percent from the line last year in the NBDL. His shot may improve, but I don’t believe he will ever be a good outside shooter.
again, you like to take singular numbers out of context
That 43% in his one year of college was dominated by a lot of outside shooting, based on the way Texas was using him (which a lot of us feel was not proper usage). He shot 37.5% from 3PT range which accounted for just over a third of his shots. That right there tells you that he was indeed a ‘very good’ outside jump shooter. Tack on the fact that he also shot 37% in the D-League last year and 38.6% in H.S. from 3PT range and it becomes pretty clear – he has, indeed, shown the ability to be a very good 3PT jump shooter at all levels prior to the NBA.
Also, being utilized primarily as an outside shooter in those 34 games at Texas, Bradley hardly ever got to the line – he averaged less than 2 free throws per game. That’s barely 60 total free throw attempts scattered across those games. So that ‘54 percent free throw shooter’ assessment is based, again on a small, skewed sample.
He shot 76% from the Free Throw line in high school and 86% in Maine last year.
Scouts always have lauded his catch-and-shoot mechanics so its not like he has some fundamental hitch or quirk that is going to prevent him from being a good shooter. This is really just a game speed / nerves issue.
Again – he is barely 21 years old and STILL the youngest player on this team.
There is plenty of reason to believe he will get over the hump on this.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
and we let delonte go because??
dooling is a bust so far.
Not sure, but it may have to do with the fact that Delonte' was a bust last year.
Seriously – Delonte’ is a good player, but he only managed to play in 24 games last year and for just 453 minutes.
Dooling has already played 10 games, 175 minutes. There is a pretty decent chance he’ll exceed what Delonte’ gave us last year.
Their per-36 minute production is similar. Delonte’ dished a couple more assists, Dooling has scored a few more points.
Delonte’ is having a good season for the Mavs and I am happy for him. But I can understand why Doc & Danny let him slip away.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Sipping the Green Kool-aid?
Delonte only managed playing 24 games last year because he broke his wrist while falling down from a layup.
What Delonte did on the floor in the playoffs for us when he played was leaps and bounds above anything Keyon has done this year. Besides draining a few 3’s he’s looked completely lost, can’t set up an offense and is no where near as tough.
Delonte came and fit in the system seemlessly, considering Dooling is the older one you would think the roles should be reversed.
I don’t get any reason why you are saying you understand why Doc & Danny let him slip away to be honest.
We should be counting our lucky stars Moore has stepped up, he’s masked the fact that Dooling has undoubtably been the worst signing of the offseason.
totally agree.
Delonte is playing well for Dallas and I have not heard of any psychotic rants or episodes, except the stuff he tweeted a few weeks back. His upside is tremendous for us. Knows the system. Can play both ends of the floor well as well as play the point. Plays with heart and hustle. Fans love him. It wasn’t like he was going to cost the team bundle to sign him. Just another move by Danny that has me sratching my head.
answer
Delonte played like 1/3 of the games over the last two years. I loved the guy, but what good does it do to sign a guy that is always injured. Danny has to look at past history in determining who he can count on. Too much hindsight here…. We should have drafted marshon Brooks— but he just broke his toe. Does that mean it wouldn’t have been a good draft?
He has not been injured so far this season and is playing a lot of minutes.
Dooling, on the other hand, has missed a bunch of games for us. I realize Danny does not have a crystal ball but the injury argument can be made for any player on this team, even the immortal Ray Allen. That is the chance you take. So far, West would have been worth the risk.
Injuries are always the elephant in the room- one never knows who'll be sat on next.
I had hoped that Delonte West would stay – he is a Celtic, but I can understand the reasoning behind letting him go. With both Moore and Bradley to develop, a back-up like Dooling was needed. Meanwhile, Dooling is injured and West is playing great [ may he continue that way ]. For explanation, see header.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix | International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ] | Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
+1
Yep, that’s the key. And remember, West’s worst injury was a freak accident, when he broke his wrist. I do think that if we had a chance to re-sign him and decided not t…. that was a mistake, even at the time. As you said, the risk of injury applies to everyone. And, all things being equal injury-wise, they should have known that West is a much better backup for Rondo than Dooling.
But I think none of us really knows what the reasons were for not re-signing West. And so it goes.
they still need a lot of work
Bradley has lots of quickness on D but he has absolutely got to get a respectable shot to justify any real playing time in this league. He’s not a factor on offense and that’s hurting the team in that respect.
Moore has a nice offensive repertoire so I think he could be a pretty decent bench player going forward. If he continues to progress at his current rate, by the end of the season he could very well have become the equivalent of Dooling in terms of help off the bench.
Moore
Should get more pt than AB. He’s earned it and has just as much talent. He clearly has a better overall game.
An elite defender status only comes with experience in the league. AB still picks up a lot of fouls and the times he’s done well is only against inferior guards, i.e. – Nelson.
There’s no way he can become an elite defender overnite. Only through experience/years do you really know the other elite offensive players’ tendencies, i.e. – Bowen, Artest, Rodman, Gerald Wilkins (the Jordan stopper). Then you become an elite defender.
So AB will require more years of being ready. Moore is ready now to contribute way more
Off topic. Anyone get ESPN Insider?
There is apparently a link to a potential trade of KG to Denver? Anyone heard of this?
Really?
A bad deal? Long term, it would make us better. Have you seem Mosgov play? We would get rid of Miller after the year or before. Afflalo is an athlete and can be very productive if given minutes. Mosgov is huge, runs the floor, and has a great shooting touch from watching him in 2 games this year. He needs to improve defense footwork, but can block shots too. KG is good but am i missing something here? Please enlighten me if iam off base.
I will take a stab at it.
First, Mosgov is unproven and only in his second year. In Doc’s system, he would likely back up JO. So we would have 4 centers on the roster and he likely would not start.
Second, it makes Bass a starter. Who backs up Bass? Bass is very effective off the bench and he and KG make a nice 1-2 punch at PF.
Third, what do we do with Miller? Do you think he would be happy backing up Rondo? And that takes away minutes from Bradley and Moore. He still has game but I question whether he would accept his role. We do not need another guard on this team/
Fourth, Affalo is a nice pickup but where do we put him? If he backs up Ray, where does Pietrus play?
Finally, KG is the heart and soul of the defense. For me, he is the epitome of a Celtic. My hope is that he stays and signs for a reduced amount next year to come off the bench. How do we replace KG’s talking and leadership Do you think Mosgov is going to talk as much? Would anyone even understand him if he did?
we are not comparing KG with these younger players
we are comparing what KG can bring us this season and possible next couple years if he stays PLUS THE FLEXIBILITY AND ABILITY TO RESHAPE OUR ROSTER. If just for these players I’d hope to see they ride with KG til end of season and see what we can do this summer.
I hate to point this out
But your opening line has me confused Jeff, although I get the point you were trying to make.
If I had told you that Rajon Rondo would miss a stretch of 7 games (and counting) and the team would have gone 5 – 7 during that stretch, well I would probably ask you for the results of the Super Bowl and run to Vegas and retire to the Caymans, but that’s beside the point.
If you told me the C’s would go 5-7 during a 7 game stretch, I would tell you go go back to math class. LOL!
Also, if you were the one telling me that, why would you then ask me the results of the Super Bowl? Shouldn’t I be the one asking you under this hypothetical scenario?
Anyways, I just love to poke holes in people’s logic, nothing personal. I get the point you’re making, and agree, who would have saw this happening?
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Obviously a typo- he meant 5-2 and not 5-7, I believe.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix | International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ] | Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
I am aware
Just being snarky
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Just remember...
…how terrible Perkins was for his first 3-4 years. Bradley is only 20 yrs old. Both players have heart and their coaches seem to see something in them. Both earned their minutes for defense. There was no way to look at the early pick adn say “This guy is going to be a good NBA player”. But he is.
And if Bradley can’t shoot better than that, he will have a short career indeed, but I saw other “can’t shoot” guys like Dee Brown and Brian Shaw develop 3 pt range and go on to have nice long careers. Another guy who couldn’t shoot his first couple years in the league was Jason Kidd.
So, stay patient with Bradley. His upside seems greater to me than Moore. But I’d be pleased to see them both be real contributors
Perkins is overrated
And Griffin will keep dunking on him at will
Perkins is overrated
I do agree with that. But he is light years better than when he was in his 2nd year.
I don't think Fosberg's post impacts Doc's point
Doc is saying that ‘yeah, he’s been shooting lousily, but we know he’s better than that, because yada yada yada.’ Fosberg is merely laying out how bad Bradley’s shooting has been. Doc’s point impacts on Fosberg’s, but the converse is not true.
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