Anderson Varejao? - A doable trade idea.
by Wicklow on Feb 1, 2012 11:57 AM EST
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PrintInteresting mention by the sportswriter at the Cleveland Plain Dealer:
"His (Varejao's) stock will never be higher than this career season in which he's averaging 10 points and 11 rebounds a game. Remember, [he'll] be 31 or 32 before this team can do damage in the postseason. Right now, he's easily worth a first-rounder and perhaps a young player to some contender."
I've long thought that the addition of a scrappy, high-IQ, rebounding big would be the last step toward true contention this season. Jermaine O'Neal circa 2005 would be fantastic. Jermaine O'Neal today is not going to cut it come playoff time. Bass, Wilcox, and Garnett are a terrific PF group, but none are true centers, and we know what that will lead to come playoff time.
I am fine with the team going after Kaman if he's bought out. I'm more excited with the team trading its protected LA Clippers 1st round pick (and Jermaine O'Neal, most likely) for Varejao. Varejao is such a smart player that he can come in and begin contributing in his role immediately. He won't be leaned on to score, but he can. He also rebounds (both ends) and defends as well as any big in the league. He's always had a nice little nasty streak (not dirty, but extra competitive) that would fit in nicely with KG and the others. And, he's relatively young and signed for the next few seasons. Our Clippers pick isn't going to be that high (they're currently 2nd in the West), and we'd still have our own 1st rounder this year (our pick will probably be better than the Clippers'). Maybe the Cavs would take our pick and leave us the Clips' pick.
Why would Cleveland make this trade? Well, I agree with the sportswriter from Cleveland. The Cavs are a few seasons away from making a push in the playoffs, let along making the playoffs at all. They're better off drafting young bigs to team with their talented 19yo PG than they are paying $7 million+ per season to a 30yo center. O'Neal can be cut or waived at no loss. I don't see them needing Bradley or Moore, and JJJ hasn't been able to show off his game yet. I think they'd take O'Neal to fill in at center for the season, and then draft a couple bigs come summer.
So...
Either of our two 1st round picks + O'Neal for Varejao.
I'm wondering if you guys are also ok with this proposal. Sound off down below.
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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interesting
not sure of 1st round pick… but Verajao is OK. We made him look better than he really is though.
hustles and does the dirty work
most say he is just average. I say in the things above he is top tier. I would gladly give JO and a 1st(which ever is the higher pick) to Cleveland for Sideshow Bob. Would Cleveland do it would be the right question. They dont have too many bigs that can play at an NBA level right now. Course if Cleveland wants to dance I am sure DA would be there partner. Mike Wilbon of PTI said something yesterday when he was asked who was going to have a better future between the celtics and the cavs and he said this. " I would never pick any Cleveland team to have a brighter future then any other team. The Celtics will swindle some other team for there talents soon, they always do". From your lips to the angel of Sterns ears, Mike.
Jeffrey M Melhorn
system limitations
In our system, those dirty work points won’t happen because Doc’s philosophy is to get back on Defense instead of pounding the boards. Varejao also benefits from the style of Irving- who is a threat to score on penetration- thus leaving him available to clean up the miss. he would be a great addition if given some freedom to crash the boards. Otherwise he is not enough of an upgrade to give up a ist round pick IMO
Rondo's best attributes are his penetration and passing.
Wouldn’t Varejao work well with both of those?
Bill Simmons just commented on Varejao.
“Hell, if I were Danny Ainge, I’d offer O’Neal’s expiring, my 2012 no. 1 AND the Clippers’ no. 1 for him.”
If Simmons agrees, does it mean it’s insane?
I love how...
Simmons’ mention of a possible trade sparks a forum and fan vote, etc.
We were already discussing this before Simmons even posted his article to Grantland.
Nature of the beast, yes.
Good catch. I thought it would scare up a few more people for the discussion. Seems to have worked.
But, I am against Simmons’ proposal of sending both 1st round picks. That’s silly. Varejao isn’t worth two 1st round picks.
One more thing...
Draft picks, even 1st round draft picks, tend to take years to reach their potential. The Celtics don’t have years. They have maybe one more season of the Big 3 playing at anywhere near above-retirement-level.
Because of this, I would trade draft picks for guys who can help win this year.
Nothing is guaranteed next year. And, two middle-of-the-road 1st round picks will not bring in a ‘superstar’ talent. The team has no other trade-able assets.
Not insane- or even a bad idea
He would be a better upgrade than Kaman. My only question is if we are better served by saving the picks as part of a BIGGER deal. I think both number 1 picks for him is a bit overboard- I’m talking about the picks’ value in TRADE, not the players we would draft. If you told me we could add some impact SG and SF to compliment him, then OK. But without THAT guarantee, is a roll of the dice IMO
cant happen
the cavs would have to be stupid to give away varejao for a first round pick. he has an awesome 4 year 7 million dollar contract so why would they give him up for just a first round pick? if they are lucky then maybe they can get a player as good as varejao with the clippers pick but more likely they will get a guy like miles plumlee and im sure the cavs would rather have 4 years or varejao over plumlee.
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 1, 2012 1:51 PM EST reply actions
If dollars were equal, of course.
But a guy like Plumlee is a perfect example of this draft. There’s a real chance a player of his caliber is available in the mid 20s where they’ll be taking that Clippers pick.
Plumlee has legitimate NBA ability, and would come a heck of a lot cheaper than Varejao (even with Varejao have a reasonable contract.)
So 4 years of Varejao over Plumlee? Of course, but 4 years of Plumlee at 1/4th the price of Varejao… don’t forget that.
we have rondo under contract for 4 years 10 million a year so would you rather have him or myck kabongo out of the draft? yes kabongo is very cheap but why in the world would we take him over rondo. if we are offered a first round pick for rondo should we take it?
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 1, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Because Rondo is a guy you build around for the future.
Varejao is not.
The Cavs are Irving’s team, by the time he hits his prime, Varejao is 32 going on 33. You can’t compare that to saying trade Rondo for a draft guys, because Rondo is the guy you’re building around, and is a couple years younger.
if i was the cavs i would trade varejao to sacramento only (because they get their pick if they are in the playoffs) our trade makes no sense. there is no way they trade varejao for plumlee. They could get better offers elsewhere. i wouldnt be surprised if the warriors offered monta ellis for him. the clippers pick wont be enough. if we really want him i think we trade bradley oneal steimsma the clippers pick and our second round pick then they get a few young players and two picks
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 1, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
If they'd take what you put at the end there.
Absolutely, if you have to add Stiemsma, do it.
Not sure how that changes the trade any though, I doubt Greg is enough to put the deal over the top, if you like you said, that offer wasn’t good enough already.
they get two more players than they would have
plus an extra pick so yeah its better than just a first rounder. my trade gives them
irving, casspi, gee, bradley, stiemsma, thompson two first round picks (including their own) and two second round picks plus two first round picks next year (including the kings pick)
I just dont see them giving away a player who was named to the all nba defensive second team in 2010 for a first round pick in the 20s
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 1, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Would the Cavs really want two stick figure white ex-Celtics manning the post each night???
That would be a funny sight – Erden and Stiemsma.
I don’t think Ainge is ever trading Bradley. Ainge is too stubborn. Or, if he’s being especially slick of late, he may simply be trying to build up Bradley’s trade value. Admittedly, that value isn’t much if he cannot hit a jump shot.
Oh, and Golden State’s GM should be fired if they trade Ellis for Varejao. Any team could use a guy like Varejao, but the Warriors will find a better way of capitalizing on an Ellis trade. I think. Then again, they’re the Warriors.
well i may have exaggerated
just a little
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 1, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not in the habit of agreeing with you, JuJuan some moore,
but I think you hit this one on the head. Varejao’s contract is a very good value. The Cavs are rebuilding, so the only reason for them to take on someone like JO would be to help them shed contracts that they don’t want going forward. Varejao is worth more than a middling 1st round pick, and JO is worth nothing to them.
It's not about his basketball value though, it's about his market value.
And the truth is, Varejao is exactly the type of “intangibles” guy that can take an offensive talented contender, and put them over the top.
He adds everything you’d want out of that position, requires no touches in the offense, is a threat away from the basket if left unguarded, and earns your team extra possessions.
What he’s not, is a center piece of a team, you can’t pound the ball to him in the post and let him work his way through doubles like Howard. He’s not going to up and under defenders all day and score like Hakeem. He’s only of any value to a contender who does not need his offense.
And those teams which fit that bill, you’re not going to get high draft picks from. So for Cleveland, who probably if they’re being honest can’t see him as part of the long term plan, since he’ll be 33 before they can legitimately think the Irving/Thompson core is ready to really take and be a serious contender; they need to get what they can for him now while he still has value.
He does nothing for that team right but take them from fringe lottery team, to fringe playoff team. It’s better to trade him now, even if it means losing a few more games the next two years, and cash in on that value.
and because hes so good
and because his contract is so good they can wait for a better offer than the clippers pick
they can even wait until next season to trade him. the fact is if we want him we have to give him an offer that is too good to refuse
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 1, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
I saw the Simmon's article Wicklow mentions above.
But I disagree with it, this draft is too loaded to move out of entirely.
That being said, I’d offer up the Clippers pick + Young potential player in a heartbeat.
As the trade deadline approaches, the injury to Rondo could end up being a blessing in disguise. It’s showing the league that Bradley and Moore, although still raw, have some talent.
So suddenly a package of JO + Bradley/Moore + Clippers 1st round pick (mid 20s in a loaded draft where 25 is more like 10-15 from any other year) + a 2nd rounder if you absolutely have too, is something you really have to consider.
Celtics do this in a heartbeat, you’re giving up a decent package, but getting great value. Varejao, much as I’ve hated him over the year, is exactly what that starting unit needs. Big, athletic, constant motor who will dominate the glass and make everyone’s job easier.
For the Cavs, I think they have to consider this. They save a nice chunk of change next year when JO’s contract expires (or he reaches a buyout this year, whatever) acquire a young player who’s shown potential, and grab an extra 1st round pick (maybe a 2nd too) in an absolutely loaded draft where impact players can be had in the last 20s. This positions you nicely in the years to come.
Right now, the Cavs have to do something, there in the worst place you can be for a franchise, stuck in mediocrity. A credible NBA team, good enough to sneak into the playoffs, but not good enough to win there; yet too good to get impact players in the draft.
You unload your value guys right now, get the assets you can to develop for 2-3 year, where Irving hits his prime, and the iron is hot to strike. I think it makes sense.
Nice points.
The Cavs have a solid group of guys with under 5 years experience, with depth at every position. They’re trying to build around Irving and Thompson, though Thompson’s coming along a bit more slowly. They won’t be winning any playoff series, but three to five years down the line they might make some noise.
Their only vets (5+ seasons) are Varejao, Antwan Jameson, and Anthony Parker. No need keeping them on board.
The Cavs need to ditch the vets and grab hold of the draft picks, or other young talent.
I hate Varejao next to LeBron, Wade and Kobe
But do whatever it takes to bolster our center position.
i'd do it in a heartbeat
you plug him in at center instead of JO and we easily win an additional 5-10 games. regardless of what danny does though,if we keep our picks we have to draft some big men.
doc is mis-using steamer
he’s a shot blocker not a position defender. he has to be able to move around and stay low in order to block shots. He’s a better rebounder than he’s shown lately because doc has takenhim away from the basket .
heres an idea of mine that might actually happen
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8y8evqk
this is a great trade for oklahoma city because they just lost eric maynor for the season and bradley would slide right into his role. they also have a trade exception that would be used for stiemsma. they rarely use aldrich so this gets them an expiring contract for a guy they will use the same amount.
for sacramento this is a good trade because they get bass for two years (unless he opts out) for a guy they dont start. they also get oneal who maybe could mentor cousins. bass would fit in great so they dont have to start hayes anymore
its predicted to make us lose 4 more games but thats only if you believe stiemsma wins us 5 games because removing him makes us predicted to win 1 more game
we get two good centers (although unproven) and if either pans out we have a very good center and are contenders and if not we didnt give up much anyway to get them.
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 2, 2012 4:53 AM EST reply actions
Bass is the one un-tradeable bench guy.
Bass isn’t going anywhere. He’s been carrying the second unit all season. Trading him at this point would derail the team.
He’ll most likely pick up his player option and return next season, either as a starter (if KG retires) or in the same role as this year.
yeah i was thinking about it later and the bass part might not work
but i could definitely see bradley and stiemsma for aldrich
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 2, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Bradley is playing his way into being an asset for this team.
I really think the Rondo injury ends up being a blessing in disguise.
It’s given Bradley the chance to really find his role on this team. His defense in energy can be great for this team moving forward. Now Doc just needs to find a way to work his rotations so he always has Paul, Ray, or Kevin on the floor with Bradley at all times.
That way, you can run your offense through Paul or Ray, of KG on the shoulder, and allow Bradley to work off the ball on his back door cuts he’s become so good at. He can really impact the game defensively if you can find a way to run your offense through other positions than your point guard, which they certainly have these past 7 games with Rondo out.
i am biased
but i definitely think moore is better now and will be better in the future than bradley. also aldrich fills a need we have and bradley fills a need they have
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 2, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Not a fan.
I wouldn’t give up Bass for nearly anything. He’s been so good for this team.
What if he opts out at the end of the season
Then we have nothing and if we aren’t contenders then we traded big baby for a 1 year rental on bass when we weren’t even contenders
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 3, 2012 5:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would rather wait til draft night and decide when we see who falls to the c’s at the time if there pick.
If they do this trade now and rondo has the same injury type that kg did in 08…comin back soon. Just taking it easy with him… side show bob won’t matter. Even with a healthy rondo I’m not sure bob will matter this year. So wait. See what happens draft night. And if Cleveland still wants the pick, than do it then.
That way they can show Howard a blue print of…rondo, pierce, side show and Howard. With resign ray to minimum and possibly kg at minimum. Along with bass, Bradley, Moore, Johnson. Minimum for pietrus. And see what happens to green.
Varejao and Howard don't fit together.
Varejao is too expensive (and good) to pay him to be a backup. And you can’t have both of them playing in the same line up. I don’t think either one is good enough away from the basket to play as a 4 and pull his man out to 15 ft.
I think if you look @ the current team. Kg 21 million JO 7 (rounded up.) Bass 4. Wilcox 3. Than compare it to what I brought up. Howard 18. Side show 8. Kg 2 bass 5. You can make it work.
If not even more reason to wait.
I mean literally, the two of them don't make sense on the same team.
I’m not talking about salary cap stuff. Which in that case, you’re numbers are way off, but we won’t even get into that.
I meant, quite literally, those two just don’t make sense on the same team, their games basically mean they cannot be on the court at the same time. And Varejao is too expensive to pay him to be a backup Center.
My numbers are way off? Kg makes 21 million. JO is closer to 6 but like I said I rounded up. Bass 4. Wilcox 3. Next year varejao is scheduled to make 8.4.. bass 4. Vet minimum is close to 2. So my numbers are not way off.
I’m sorry but i’ll take my chances with a guy that hustles, rebounds, plays D, doesn’t need plays ran thru him to score. Takes pressure of howard to guard bigs like love, bynum, bosh, horford. It’s like saying Shaq would have never worked well if rodman were on the same team.
So if the trade is possible around draft night. Than I would be all for it. But not until they see what pick they would have and who could be available at that pick.
oh yeah
yes i would do it he plays just like powe and thats what we are lacking i hated him on the cavs because he didnt back down from KG and was not intimidated by him love this trade also send us back semih ehrden cause we nee a good center
lohaus #54
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