The Celtics Are Soft In The Middle
by Jeff Clark on Feb 1, 2012 5:00 PM EST
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintThere's no secret that the Celtics have shortcomings in the paint. In particular the center spot, which is pretty much just the oft-injured Jermaine O'Neal, converted power forward Chris Wilcox, Kevin Garnett (playing out of position and floating on the perimeter anyway) and rookie D-League graduate Greg Stiemsma.
So far that group isn't getting the job done. Never was that more apparent than when Anderson Varejao exploded for 20 points and 20 rebounds against us (after having a very good game against us earlier in the week). Here's what Jermaine had to say about that.
Truth is, Doc Rivers got over spat - BostonHerald.com
"I got a little winded out there," O’Neal said. "It took me a couple of minutes to get my legs going. I couldn’t make multiple efforts. I’m probably the reason (Anderson) Varejao got hot. I gave him a couple of uncontested shots. But, all in all, it’s a process." Varejao hit three jumpers for Cleveland’s first six points, finishing with 20 (and 20 rebounds). But O’Neal got free inside for three dunks in the third quarter.
You want stats? Here's some good stats from WEEI Greenstreet:
Meanwhile, Celtics centers rank 24th in the league in rebounds per game (11.6) at their position while opposing centers grab 14.3 boards per game - ranking top five in the NBA. Jermaine O'Neal & Co. are worse on the defensive glass, allowing exactly five offensive boards (third in the league) to their counterparts per game.
Among centers who play at least 20 minutes a night, O'Neal ranks 28th out of 36 in both defensive and total rebound rate. If O'Neal wants to be judged on his defense and rebounding, the latter hasn't been so good. Of course, the fact that O'Neal remains the only proven center on the roster doesn't help so much either.
Of course the numbers aren't all bad with O'Neal...
Chargewatch: O'Neal's impressive stats - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston
According to the site's stats, O'Neal currently ranks fourth in the NBA having drawn 15 charges in 15 games. He trails only Minnesota's Ricky Rubio (18), Sacramento's DeMarcus Cousins (17), and Washington's John Wall (16). But here's the more impressive part: all three of those players have at least four more games played and at least 200 more minutes of court time. Break it down by charges per minute played and O'Neal (one every 22.9 minutes) is far and away the leader in the clubhouse.
So he's got that going for him, which is nice. Then again, remember that Big Baby had some epic charge numbers at the beginning of last year and that didn't mean much in the end.
There's some hope that O'Neal can contribute more when he gets his legs under him and gets healthy... Sorry, go back and replace the "when" in that sentence with "if" and I might have it closer to the mark.
We knew it in training camp (well, what there was of training camp) and we know it now. This team is weak at the center spot. Can they overcome that or get some help? We'll see.
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It still sickens me...
That the league keeps statistics on flop leaders.
I thought the dictator promised to address that 2 years ago.
if you're somehow claiming that JO flops
I strongly urge you to go to your local gym and do what JO does on guys much smaller than who JO does this to and call it flopping. When you’re beat-up as is (he’s got a bad knee, bad wrist, bad back) that stuff wears on you, particular at this age and with his NBA mileage.
He legitimately takes charges in the gut from BIG NBA players. Look no further than the 6’10" hedo turkoglu going knee to knee with JO last week.
JO has been playing his butt off… if you want to hate on the guy because he gets injured often go ahead, besides that, I don’t know how you can’t be happy with the guy. He is as good a shot blocker and charge taker as there is in the NBA, just look at the numbers. Any other disappointment is coming from how good he USED to be.
I mean I’m going to get murdered for this comment, but when Jermaine O’Neal is on the floor he is better than Perkins. Playing 3 less minutes per game than Perk he is putting up better or equal numbers across the board. Talk about intangibles all you want but JO is a better shot blocker, better charge taker, better finisher, equally good rebounder, turns it over less.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Perk is better at setting screens
I’ll give him that, but he was also good for 2 illegal screens per game which don’t count torwards his t/o numbers.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Really good points
But where do I draw the line on a guy being tough and getting injured and him being a bit less tough and turnover prone but pretty healthy for a whole season/post season?
Even though they both played the same amount of minutes, I’d still want someone durable enough to handle a season+post season
Really good points though, wb. I tend to cheer for JO being traded but you made me realize he does contribute more than I think
totally agree
and it’s hard to say where you draw the line.
my observation is simply that JO, healthy as he is right now, is a pretty good center. and I’d even contest he’s the best center we’ve had in the big 3 era.
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
I'm not O'Neal's biggest fan...Obviously
But this has nothing to do with hating O’Neal. It’s about putting up stats that encourage flopping.
95% of all charge calls are flops. It’s disgracing a great game. Often giving the NBA game a professional wrestling look.
I mean I’m going to get murdered for this comment, but when Jermaine O’Neal is on the floor he is better than Perkins.
But since you brought up O’Neal……
Perk has never tanked a season. So it’s pretty much a meaningless comparison. One is reliable. One isn’t. We never know which game O’Neal will show up for.
When O’Neal plays half a season you can make a legitimate comparison.
by Finkelskyhook on Feb 1, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
what season did JO tank?
I’m not sure when/what you’re referring to.
JO has played many seasons where he played more than half the season…in 09-10 he played 70 games, the year before he played 68.
It’s a little unfair to use his one season in celtic green as the basis for all your assumptions about this guys toughness or lack thereof.
as for your 95% stat, well that is just completely made up. I agree flopping is ruining the game, but yah, you’re basing you argument on 100% opinion and not the numbers in front of you.
so how exactly is the comparison meaningless?
"Take it to the hoop, there's a dance involved." - DJ Tommy
Last season, Willy
The comparison is meaningless because one player shows up consistently and one doesn’t.
by Finkelskyhook on Feb 2, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Hate to burst your balloon, but nobody gets to be a six time all star by tanking.
Lygafe
Lionel Gaffen / Fotomix | International Hockey Forums > Europe > ISRAEL
Israel Recreational Hockey Association 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 [ Lygafe ] | Israel Ice Skating Federation - From the Media [ Lionel Gaffen ]
Thing is
If we really want to improve at the center position, we have to make some sacrifices, which means either our cap space and/or young players. If we’re not willing to make those sacrifices, then forget about it.
Difference between Soft in the Middle and Old in the Middle and No Middle
This is soft in the middle
This is old in the middle
and this is No Middle
Is it Soup Yet?
Well, Varejao used to do this against our championship and "almost-championship" teams
So it’s no shock he toyed with our bigs last night. He’s great at hustling on the boards, mediocre at everything else.
Varejao’s game and the Celtics inability to defend Sessions (and some questionable calls, of course) let the Cavaliers back into the game.
I wish Danny never traded Erden to bring Murphy. Omer Asik gets a lot of praise here, and althought he’s better than Erden on offense, Semih is better on D.
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
you can't have 'em all i guess...
JO’s still our guy…i don’t see any who could impact and join our system from here on in..stats are for junkies, intangibles still matter to me and i probably speak for most..varejao probably had his way against JO and the celts “bigs” the whole 47:59 of the game, but if i may remind those ingrates, it was JO’s block on frizzy hair anderson varejao that sealed the game for us…
Yes it was apparent even during training camp.....
That the center spot was the weakest link. Made more apparent by Danny’s active collection of PFs. And then made more obvious during the season.
JO has been serviceable and great at times. But I believe he would have been very phenomenal as our back up 5.
Now can the Cs acquire a starting caliber center? Probably not. If JO is it….then we just ride him as the starting center and see where it leads the team.
Boston should go for at least the 6th seed so it has a better chance of surviving the opening round.
Of course
Danny gave away Perk, our young best center. What do we expect to happen next? The most stupid trade ever.
by KingCeltics on Feb 1, 2012 6:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Steamer..
was doing the job at the beginning of the season. Apparently NBA officiating doesn’t like rookies that play aggressive and do their job well against the vets. Whistles have been blown on this guy for just casting a shadow on the opponent for the past few weeks. Doc just needs to let him play and suffer the consequences of ; "Hey!!! He’s a rookie, he can’t play defense like that on our league veterans!!! “Tweet, Tweet, Tweet!!!” “Foul on #54”; until he fouls out of the game. Sorry, but that is how I see it with this kid. He can and will be tough in the middle once he gets past this rookie crap.
The Weakness is Obvious
If the hole is not filled, aint going nowhere. But what is the move? Trade? FA? Buyouts?
"Celtics bring order and structure to a chaotic world"
I think a lot of the problem here is correctable.
With the way our team defense works, the center’s responsibility is to read the attack as it goes past the up big (KG) and get in position to take the charge and if not, then foul hard. That is what Perk & Sheed did and that is what Jermaine does. Even BBD did this until he stopped playing near the rim in the latter part of last year.
The problem has been that Bass, Wilcox and Stiemsma are still learning how to read and anticipate correctly. Bass especially is frequently getting caught playing run-and-recover and instead of being in the paint taking the charge, he’s trying to catch up to the attacker with his athleticism.
Similarly, he’s going too aggressively after rebounds once the shot is up, again relying on his athleticism to try to grab everything. Instead he needs to first focus on blocking out his man and then go after it himself or – most importantly – help make sure one of his teammates gets it. This right here was why Varejao was killing us. All Bass had to do each time was to just focus on blocking AV out and KG & others in green would have probably grabbed half those rebounds that AV snagged.
I think that eventually these guys will ‘get it’. All three of these guys are smart and hard working players who have the physical tools to be great help defenders in the post.
All that said – it’ not really the case that our defense overall is all that bad. The Celtics were ranked 6th in Defensive Rating going into tonight’s game against the Raptors.
Unfortunately it is our offense that is not pulling it’s weight. We were ranked just 20th in Offensive Rating going into tonight’s game. Our shooting efficiency has improved dramatically over the last 8 games, but we still have quite a way to go to get where we need to be.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
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