Exposed...was rondo ever an asset
by detroitp1989 on Feb 10, 2012 11:33 PM EST
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Print There is no hesitation when it comes for me to state that I love the celtics...Rondo is an overrated player by all means but opinions are meaningless. Just watch the celtics run the offense through him and any individual with a high basketball I.Q. can expose his weakness. He cannot shoot at all and he will never be able to shoot. For the ignorant ppl who thinks he will learn, you obviously have never played the game of basketball. You either have the shooters touch or you dont. You have to be a joke to bring up his season stats because the dynamics of the game all around make up his stats, the stats itself doesnt define who he really is. Place him in a team where you run the ball (knicks), he will average more ppg/apg as opposed to placing him in a team like san antonio and he will be the laughing stock of the team. Moving on... its obvious we have to trade him if you want to keep the big three... otherwise you have an incompatibility with the whole team and this was the issue ever since he came into the team. He never impacted the team even during their championship run and now that the big three are declining and relying on rondo, his flaws are becoming more obvious. The question is who do you trade him for... what are your thoughts on trading options.
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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Nope.
If we trade Rondo, We’re dooming this team for years to come. It’s amazing how a guy can have a few bad games and all of a sudden he’s overrated.
How does, 13.6 PPG, 10 Assists and 5 rebounds sound?
Pretty promising right? Guess who’s averaging that this year…
Exactly.
by Thecapedcrusader15 on Feb 10, 2012 11:36 PM EST reply actions
What's his 4th quarter stats like?
That’s the more important numbers.
How about asst/turnover ratios.
Those stats are meaningless, as they don’t show when and how he’s getting points.
The most decieving thing about rondo i think
is his assist numbers. The last couple days the celtics big 3 have stunk it up, the roster itself has stunk it up, and rondos assists obviously have gone down. Its not that rondo isnt a good pg, he is. But guys like nash are able to create shots and easy looks for their team because they are constant threats to score the ball. Rondo more on the big 3 to get his numbers more than the big 3 rely on him to get their numbers. Put rondo on a team like nash is on, and what happens. What happens when the defense doesnt have to worry about garnett knocking down those 15 footers, or paul pierce shaking the defense and creating his shot? What happens when there is no ray allen running off of screens? What happens to rondos fg% when he is no longer being left wide open beyond 15 feet? I find the rondo stats to be teh most misleading in the world because he only became a good pg after the big 3 appeared.
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
by piccolomair on Feb 10, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
thumbs up for piccolomair and C's fan.
no one is wrong here. Piccolomair I like your unbiased post and high basketball I.Q. Its completely true the stats nowadays do not justify the players skills/ potentials. If i were to pick rondo t orun my team based on stats, I would not hesistate to pick him up. However, if I were to pick him up as a point guard based on video reviews on his skill level, I would not hesistate to knock him off my list of choices. Bottom line is… when your getting paid millions of dollars to play this game, you can literally fly but if you cant place the ball in the hole then you hsould not be playing professionally, this league is too competitive or at least should be.
by detroitp1989 on Feb 11, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
http://www.hoopdata.com/passingstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0
last year rondo was second to nash in assists that led to baskets at the rim… so your claim that he gets all his assists by hitting ray off curls is innacurate.
i didnt make the claim that he did
im just saying that rondos assists numbers are more dependent on the players on the team more than him. Last year had a healthier pierce, kg, and some shaq….probably why there were more assists in the paint.
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
Wasn't good until the big 3 appeared?
So you’re saying he wasn’t good his rookie season? When he was raw and only played 20 minutes a game?
Great point LOL
What happens when the defense doesnt have to worry about garnett knocking down those 15 footers, or paul pierce shaking the defense and creating his shot? What happens when there is no ray allen running off of screens?
You are playing on a team that sucks it sounds like to me if you don’t have any of those options maybe the Wizards atm. A good point guard is someone who can get players on their team the ball in places where they can score first and foremost, but if you don’t have anyone any good on the team, then you can be the best point guard in the world and it won’t matter. If Rondo was the point guard on the Suns, they would have a record of 11-15 if not better.
"Booze takes a lot of time and effort if you're going to do a good job with it."
― Raymond Carver, Where I'm Calling From: New and Selected Stories
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
chris paul, steve nash, ricky rubio, kyrie irving
jeremy freakin lin, hell even john wall with that terrible washington team finds ways to get 8 assists a game. Those are all guys who have played on very bad teams, and have been able to make the players around them better. Rondo was injured, and the celtics were still winning, they were actually starting to get better. That shows that the team revolves more around the play of the big 3 than it does rondo (rondo had been playing well to start the season, but the celtics were losing, paul pierce starts playing well and celtics start winning…correlation)
There is no way the suns would be a better team with rondo, have you ever seen nash play..you take him off that team and that team may never win again.
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
by piccolomair on Feb 11, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah john wall is really making his teammates better
because the wizards are so good.
Chris Paul is the best pg...
so take him out of that group to start with. Out of the others, ricky rubio is the best one and Rondo is better overall than him. Neither can shoot all that well and Rondo is a lot faster, a better penetrator and a better defender. I disagree about Nash being better than Rondo at this point. You are thinking of the Nash of old, but he actually hit the wall two years ago in the playoffs. When he was getting tired, the shot was not even reliable (coming up short) and he can’t guard anyone out there either, so yeah, at this point Rondo is better and the Suns would not be any worse off if not better imo.
Lin has played four games and beat down fisher and blake last night so I will wait to see what he is doing twenty games from now. Hell I saw this last night on the net,
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Sources w/knowledge of New York’s thinking say Knicks were leaning strongly toward releasing Lin before his breakout game last SAT vs. Nets
Wall has potential but has more of a score first mentality but I would say he is next on the list if not tied with Rubio. Irving has more of a score first mentality also and I have seen people compare him to Billups and that looks about right by what I have seen.
"Booze takes a lot of time and effort if you're going to do a good job with it."
― Raymond Carver, Where I'm Calling From: New and Selected Stories
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
The 5-1 record is a direct result of
Playing The Knicks, Bucks, Nets, Hornets and Bobcraps the only loss came to a +.500 team… The Celtics. Your point is moot.
by AussieGreen on Feb 13, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Umm
He’s shooting 50 % from the floor.
Every single team in the NBA is having more turnovers than usual this season. You know why? The lockout. I know it’s been talked about alot, but it’s true. Look how we stumbled out of the gate this season. Aside from all the injuries, we’ve had to deal with no training camp, and we’ve had to incorporate 7 new players!!! That would be hard for any point guard. For you to say he’s never been an asset says alot about your knowledge of basketball my friend.
by Thecapedcrusader15 on Feb 10, 2012 11:44 PM EST reply actions
not really
although the lockout has obviously severely impacted EVERY team, (notice EVERY team) I cannot believe celtics can continue to run the same failed sets through him over and over and over again. More importantly I wasnt talking about this year alone, he has never been able to shoot and to think you can contribute toward a team without not knowing how to shoot is ignorant and disrespectful to the rest of the teammates because the defense can easily double team, the toronto game tonight was of most evidence. He is not a bad player, he is just not right for this team. If he was able to penetrate consistently and properly, prehaps it would have been able to over compensate for his lack of shooting abilities, but his penetration skills are needless to say, limited.
by detroitp1989 on Feb 11, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
jason kidd could always post up
just here…
jason kidd stats, check out his per 36 stats since his rookie year
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01.html
now heres rondo
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html
Check out the advanced stats. Rondo at best is a poor mans jason kidd.
Waiting for the Prodigal Son to Return KH12 BITCHES!!!!
In the Chemi-meter we trust!
by piccolomair on Feb 11, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
OK. They've been checked out.
Now what? What conclusion was I supposed to see?
Nick Swisher is hands^h^h^h^h^h delicious.
never impacted the team?
he basically won the series against the cavs in ’10 by himself
?
how does that help if you cant win it all… who cares what he did against the cave. Had the cavs given him space to shoot jumpers he would have single handly eliminated the celtics earlier. When your playing against good teams, like the lakers, your exposed, and thats what happened he was exposed to the fact that he can never shoot.
by detroitp1989 on Feb 11, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
the cavs were the number one seed
they won 60+ games… i think they were a pretty good team. so if perkins doesnt get hurt in the finals then it makes rondo better?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mcbSxu2QrE
And
He was the reason why Kobe Bryant was able to play help defender / rebounder in the finals the same year.
Raton
The turnover machine …… The future is now not last year…..
Rondo is amazing, don't forget it and don't run him out of town.
This guy out dueled Rose a couple years back
He gets tons of triple doubles
He outplays his competition 9 times out of 10
He is the best passer in the game
One of the best penetrators
One of the best defenders at his position
The best rebounding point guard
THE BEST PLAYER ON THIS TEAM (Yes better than Pierce)
But yeah he cant shoot
GET OVER IT
then maybe we need a better best player
who was the last best player on a championship team who couldnt shoot (i dont know the answer im just asking)
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 11, 2012 6:03 AM EST up reply actions
i do not agree
Rondo is better than the Captain UNLESS he double his shot volume at the same shooting percentage and his freethrow shooting which is still abysmal at around 60%.
Rondo gets better as the big 3 get worse and somehow you guys all call out the wrong guy.
Get a clue
Some people are being unfair to Rondo
This team is old and has multiple weaknesses, Rondo isn’t the only problem. The main thing I am seeing with Rondo however is that you can’t build a team around him, atleast not if you want to win a championship. Rondo will never be a superstar, but I thought okay as Rondo gets a little older and the team leans more and more on him, he would rise to the challenge and show everyone he is a top 3 point guard in the league. He showed flashes of it early last year where I thought this guy might even be the BEST point guard in the league. He just can’t be the best or even 2nd best player on a team that wants to win it all. He has improved offensively this year both in shooting and aggression, but not nearly enough to be the best player on a contender or even a good team.
agreed
possibly being a little unfair towards rondo was mostly the results or the lack of it during last nights game agaist toronto. But what really irritates me is simply the fact that ppl need to understand that this team is a jump shootin team and a point guard has the bal 90 percent of the time so of course undoubtfully he will get assists in stats. If you look at the offense, rondo waits for others to get open and dimishes the shotclock more then halfway through. But he NEVER looks for his shots because he cant shoot. So what hapens if there is noone really opend on such position? Nothing, its a turnover, a badly missed shot, bad setup or a hail mary made jump shot. How can any prestigue organization rely on inconsistincy in setting up such offense.
by detroitp1989 on Feb 11, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
He just needs to learn
how to shoot jumpers and fu**ing free throws.
I don't follow rules, I let the rules follow me.
Won't happen
We’ve been waiting on it for 5 years and seen only marginal progress.
It's not that Rondo sucks
it’s that he’s the trading chip that brings back the highest value. Going forward this season and beyond it’s very clear our most glaring need is inside. Go back and watch the replay of the Gasol tip-in that tied the game in regulation the other night. KG and JON were both under the basket. Neither took a “stick out your ass” I’ve got the rebound, position—commonly known as boxing out. (From the little bit of bb I played even I knew how to keep someone off the glass and even if you are tired and can’t do it every time down you certainly do when the game is on the line.) Gasol waltzes in, puts a forearm to JON’s back and tips it in. If either of the 2 had taken an aggressive stance that tip in doesn’t happen and game over. That 1 play tells the entire story of our season so far. If I’m the Lakers there is no way I trade Gasol for Rondo but I’d be in favor of bringing Gasol in if I’m the Celtics. He has 2-3 more seasons at a high level and in the NBA that’s about as far in the future you can go. Anyone else notice that Jennings from the Bucks is considering his options? So imagine the 3 plus Gasol and a pg by committee running the offense through PP with Bass and Pietrus off the bench for the rest of the season—this gives us the best shot at a title now. With our current configuration we barely get a seed and get bounced no later than round 2. Next season you have PP, Gasol, get Jennings and take it from there; J Green coming back healthy and whatever young Big you can get. The future is always now in sports. Most 5 year plans don’t work.
agreed
definitely like the jennings idea but idk if that is a realistic possibility. Obviously center is a flaw which needs to be addressed. Williams for point would not be a bad option either. This team needs to make changes and fast, a few wins here and there isnt going to get them a championship ring. It difficult to admit flaws, but once the mistakes are noticed, fixes can be made, I hope Danny realizes that because he himself has a reputation on the line to consider.
by detroitp1989 on Feb 11, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
You're right.
It’s not that Rondo sucks…it’s that he’s the trading chip that brings back the highest value.
Other than Pierce, potentially. Nice post, but I don’t see that the Lakers just deny Gasol/Rondo outright. Gasol is not a top10 PF, and clearly Rondo is a top10 PG. Perhaps… perhaps the Lakers see a little more in the future than most of us and see they’re about two years away from an overhaul themselves (btw, they are in one right now too, but maybe they think they aren’t). Maybe the Lakers think they are in it with their current roster. Dubious.
What’s my point? Just that Rondo for Gasol isn’t an automatic No from the Lakers and depending how they think that team’s future is shaking out, not a NO at all.
Nick Swisher is hands^h^h^h^h^h delicious.
Jennings is a young point guard I think the Celtics could get but really hope they don't
Jennings is a volume shooter who is worse at defense and much worse at passing than Rondo. I think he is a better shooter than Rondo but not by that much. If Rondo jacked up 20-25 shots a game he wouldn’t be that much worse than Jennings who struggles to stay above 40% field goal.
To be fair
Rondo had less pressure when pp and others were injured. He is in a tough spot because if he shoots, or gets too aggressive on offense he will be criticized for not relying on his all star vets. When he disappears, it looks like he is afraid to upset this balance. That said, there are few point guards who cannot be counted on in the last minutes of games to knock down an outside shot, or drive to the hoop. In my opinion, rondo can only succeed consistently if he were turned loose to run… Never worrying about turnovers. That team, however, would probably resemble the wizards.
Actually, Gasol is the 7th ranked PF
The biggest (pun intended) reason Gasol is not as effective this year vs last is 1st, they have switched from the triangle, which stressed ball movement, to Mike Brown’s system where the emphasis is now focused on feeding the center down low, thereby giving Gasol very little room to operate ie; the post is clogged. If Gasol was playing for the Celtics, he would be the defacto PF ON OFFENSE, with KG playing center, drawing the opposing center out of the paint, allowing KG to shoot where he feels most comfortable 12-20 feet from the basket. On defense, Gasol would handle the center, protecting the low post, while KG would provide the help defense and defensive rotations as he does now. That is why Gasol (or any PF with similar skills) would be so beneficial to the Celtics offense & defense…
Rondo is the 15th ranked pg per hollinger...
Just saying…
I'm all for a trade
But here’s the dilemma, do we go in the playoffs as we are and risk another so called “wasted” season without a title. Or do we deal Rondo for a younger package
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7ojbe3e
I’m not at all saying that trade would be better, but I like both those guys over Rondo and JO or even do something with Jefferson.
I do not like people saying that our chemistry will be messed up because winning solves everything, but we have basically sacrificed the last 2 seasons to give the old 3 a chance and its about time they understand that this isn’t just about them. We stand a better chance with dealing Rondo for a couple of pieces this season than with him, in my opinion.
Lets put a smile on that face!
You want a 6'8 center?
Because we certainly don’t need another power forward (or an awful point guard)
we can do better then harris
devin harris woudl not be an ideal answer if we are oging to trade rondo.rondo has trade value.. a trade involving jennigs would more likely be an ideal solution. aside from trying to acquire a valuable centerpiece, but the celtics organization should invest w.e. it can trying to acquire howard.
by detroitp1989 on Feb 11, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
The facts
Hollinger’s stats are a joke.
We won’t get back better talent for Rondo, no way.
If we trade him for a big then we have a hole at PG.
Its like having a pipe burst in two different places and moving a piece of tape to two different spots.
We need something for nothing. IE buyout or lopsided trade for a team that is trying to shed salary.
ANYTHING ELSE IS STUPID
(sorry but these posts bother me to no end)
this teams most glaring weakness is...
The inability of players that can create offense and that have the ability to drive the lane, finish at the rim, resulting in points or free throws. Look at our players, who can create and finish? KG? Jumpshooter. Allen? Jumpshooter. Bass? Jumpshooter. Pietrus? Jumpshooter. We don’t have, outside of Pierce, JJJ, players that can score from multiple areas. We are either at the rim making a lay up/lob off a pass when the defense breaks down, or we are jumpshooting from 15-25 ft.
PG position is easier to fill than a center or power forward....
You DON’T NEED a top 5 PG to win a championship, but tell me the last time a championship was won without either a very good PF or CENTER????
Besides the triangle teams (which do not need much from a pg) and a few exceptions almost every team had good point guards. At least serviceable ones. you can see how seemingly good team can fall apart without a good point guard (See Jameer Nelson, See pre-Lin Knicks)
didn't say they didn't have good point guards...
BUT, what was the last championship team to win without a very good power forward/center, or preferably both???
by greensince72 on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Trade
Rondo, O’Neal and Daniels plus Sasha for Kaman and Gordon but make sure he’s signs contract, that would solve two positions. Then maybe move KG and Allen at the end of the season for picks or younger players. Gordon can play point at times until Bradley or Moore can handle the point or trade Bradley for Sessions.
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